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 pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 09:23 PM |
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Does anyone in Aust sell these?
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-7036
tried levers, tried rattle guns and that darn axle nut will not move.
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Old Hutcho
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 09:32 PM |
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These are the greatest invention since sliced bread. They actually multiply the torque you can put on a nut times 10! I dont know how many times I
have borrowed Dave Becker's cause he is close and cause I can. Saved me many hours of swearing. It would be one of the most useful tools going for
a VW idiiot.
Old Hutcho
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68AutoBug
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 09:38 PM |
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CLUB VEE DUB in sydney don't have them?
although not a genuine vw tool..??
never ever seen them before look great...
any generic torque multipliers about?
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Craig S
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 09:47 PM |
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So the trip to pick up your bar didn't bear fruit? Bummer.  At least my garage is a bit cleaner now 
1969 Beetle - June
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jhp1
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 10:04 PM |
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#! Message No Longer Available !#
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 barls
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 10:06 PM |
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andy down in tassie had them at one stage. cant remember his user name right at the moment.
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barls
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 10:10 PM |
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just went back to have a look to see if i could jog the memory, its volksfolks, hasnt been here in a while though there is a mobile in his profile
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volumex
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| posted on August 23rd, 2010 at 10:16 PM |
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I have one and I used it on my 58 axle nuts. One came off ok but the other would not budge even with the CIP1 tool.
I used a flogging spanner and an 8 lb sledge hammer to get it off. (This one: http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=82243 )
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1303Steve
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 08:59 AM |
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Hi
I've had very few that I couldn't move, is the wheel on the ground? Have you tried any heat? Failing that split the nut with a chisel through one of
the split pin slots.
Steve
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jacky_moo
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 09:06 AM |
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+1 1303steve...
Add oxy torch and a rattle gun!
schnell!! schnell!! schnell!! schnell!!
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Sides
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 09:17 AM |
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+2 for 1303Steve's suggestion.
Also soaking in WD40 or similar... amazing how much torque a small amount of corrosion can take to shift.
Oxy could also help, but I wouldn't try a rattle gun... the threads on the axle strike me as a bit fine for that.
Good luck
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 09:28 AM |
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i've tried the rattle gun of death and no cigar. have wd40ed it last night. maybe I'll try the heat gun. I don't have oxy, but I do have a bosch
electric one. seems like the last person who did it up didn't muck around.
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vwo60
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 09:31 AM |
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Hi Take your self down to blackwoods and purchase a 36mm flogging spanner, with the wheel on the car you will have no problems loosening it.
http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/PartDetail.aspx?part_no=03865909
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1500S
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 10:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
i've tried the rattle gun of death and no cigar. have wd40ed it last night. maybe I'll try the heat gun. I don't have oxy, but I do have a bosch
electric one. seems like the last person who did it up didn't muck around.
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Pete, put the socket on the nut and then place a piece of metal say 10mm thick on the top face of the socket. Give it a couple of good raps with a
fair sized hammer. Then try the breaker bar again. The axial impacts will loosen most stubborn nuts.
Now for the "be careful" bit. Any axial impacts on a static ball bearing can "brinell" the bearing. For that matter, the flogging spanner can
have the same disastrous effects on a bearing.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinelling
Still better to use a steady force from a long lever to undo the nut.
DH
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 matberry
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 10:59 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1500S
Any axial impacts on a static ball bearing can "brinell" the bearing. For that matter, the flogging spanner can have the same disastrous effects
on a bearing.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinelling
Still better to use a steady force from a long lever to undo the nut.
DH
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x2
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 11:51 AM |
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when you say "top face", do you mean the back of the socket or the side?
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matberry
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 12:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
when you say "top face", do you mean the back of the socket or the side?
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Sideways, ie, towards the trans I'd expect, as he's explained to hit the socket. It can definately help at the risk of wheel bearing damage.
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BlueV2
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 01:23 PM |
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What size breaker bar and length of pipe did you try Pete ?
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 04:40 PM |
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0.9m breaker bar with a 1 metre extension or there abouts. the pipe was 1 and 1/4 with a 3mm wall thickness. bent like liquorice. I'm not quite 100kg
and I was standing on it.
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Thinker
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 04:56 PM |
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most engineering supply companies (blackwoods) carry them they are call a torque multiplier. they dont look anything like the one from CIP1.
they are not cheap but if you are willing to spend the money you can get them to do up around 4000 ft/lb if that dosnt undo the axel nut then it was
never going to come off
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Thinker
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 05:03 PM |
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or you could try one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV8yfpKUnmg
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1303Steve
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 05:04 PM |
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Hi
So is your breaker bar 3/4 inch?
If you want to borrow my 3/4 bar & pipe let me know.
Steve
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 05:20 PM |
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the breaker bar is 1/2 inch. never been an issue in the past. I'm gonna try the hitting the socket thing first.
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1500S
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 05:38 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
the breaker bar is 1/2 inch. never been an issue in the past. I'm gonna try the hitting the socket thing first.
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You need a 3/4" drive one to make it easy and yes, give a hit on the end of the socket where the square drive fits. The bit of plate stops the
hammer damaging the socket. The socket will sit on the flange (washer) of the axle nut. A 3/4 bar also prevents the dreaded bending of the bar
under load. If you have no luck tonight you can have a loan of mine as well. Depends who is closer to you. I'm going Meadowbank way tomorrow
evening (about 3 pm) so could drop it somewhere for you or you can come over for a drive and pick it up after 5.30pm
DH
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bajachris88
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 06:17 PM |
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Once u whacked the nut, when u apply the torque, try to 'break' the lock by a little impact by whackin the end of the 6ft breaker bar.
YOUR BEST BET, with safety for bearings in mind, is to jump on th end of the breaker bar with a good pair of shoes, and ur hands on the side of the
body ready to take your weight when the nut 'cracks' free such as to not axe yourself.
If it wants to play rough, return the favour!
I assume u are using a HT 6 sided socket? axle nut not too burd up?
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ratbug
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 07:33 PM |
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I had 2m of leverage on one of my axle nuts once, and was just lifting up the whole car... I ended up hiring an electric impact gun and socket (it was
3/4 or maybe even 1") from the hire shop, got it off in 2 seconds. Was the easiest $50 i spent in ages.
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Joel
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 07:50 PM |
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I Agree with Steve, if its really really really F'n tight just split it off
heres what happened to both sides of my bug when I got serious with the heat, WD40 and breaker bar extentions
stripped the thread clean off both axles
Woulda saved me alot of extra work if i had of just split the nuts
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ian.mezz
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 07:51 PM |
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The angle grinder is my friend.
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1500S
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 07:54 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratbug
I had 2m of leverage on one of my axle nuts once, and was just lifting up the whole car... I ended up hiring an electric impact gun and socket (it was
3/4 or maybe even 1") from the hire shop, got it off in 2 seconds. Was the easiest $50 i spent in ages.
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Pulling up on the lever is a big mistake! If you place it so you can stand on the bar it's safer and the wheel is being pushed to the ground rather
than lifting it off the ground thus with a couple of chocks it's locked preventing rotation whilst undoing the nut.
In many cases, veedubbers are now suffering from previous owners as well as misinformation by believing you need a 2 metre bar to jump on or a FB
hammer to tighten the nuts up. Over tightening is just as bad as not tight enough.
DH
PS. To save wading through old stuff, read this clip to remind us of all that maths we learned at school.
Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie Dubbin
Good info... but have you got a good example of correct/ close torque settings without a torque wrench?
Yes! Simply TORQUE = FORCE x DISTANCE. If you use imperial then the distance is feet, metric the distance is metres but if the mass is given in kg
then you'll have to convert it to Newtons as the torque is generally given in Newton/Metres (Mass x 9.8 is near enough).
The example we may as well use here is a torque of 217 ft lbs. If we have a lever say 3 ft long then Torque/Distance = Force
217/3 = 72 lb. ie, measure along the bar 3 ft and apply this load on the bar and you have the correct torque.
To be a bit more metric ( but not totally as I haven't got a book in front of me with the Nm settings), if you weigh in at 100kg (220lb),
Torque/Force = Distance then 217/220 = 11.8 inches or near enough to 300mm. Place your big hoof 300mm out from the centre of the axle and stand on the
bar and you have the correct torque................ but all you mathematicians knew all that didn't you.  Believe me, you can't argue with with physics and mechanics as long as you take into account the
variables, as in the case of threaded fasteners, FRICTION.
Hope this helps!
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ratbug
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| posted on August 24th, 2010 at 08:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1500S
Pulling up on the lever is a big mistake! If you place it so you can stand on the bar it's safer and the wheel is being pushed to the ground rather
than lifting it off the ground thus with a couple of chocks it's locked preventing rotation whilst undoing the nut.
In many cases, veedubbers are now suffering from previous owners as well as misinformation by believing you need a 2 metre bar to jump on or a FB
hammer to tighten the nuts up. Over tightening is just as bad as not tight enough.
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I was pushing down, pulling up is just asking for a hospital visit. it was lifting the front of the car off the groound. Also i didnt mention the car
had no body, just the chassis.
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