| [ Total Views: 1516 | Total Replies: 14 | Thread Id: 86072 ] |
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 beachbuggy61
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 07:05 PM |
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Thoughts on Fuel Injection kits
Hi all,
I'm currently running twin 40mm Kadrons and a turbo blow through set up on my 1915 which has its shortcomings when at full noise due to (I'm pretty
sure) the carbs not being able to keep up. I.e. I think getting the right mixtures acros the rev/boost range is a bit beyond the Kaddies.
Does anyone have any thoughts/experience with fuel injection? I've found a CB Performance kit online but can't seem to see how much it is... Does
anyone know of alternatives?
Should I just 86 the idea of EFI and go to Webers?
All feedback greatly appreciated....
Thanks, Marc.
Baja
1915cc's of raw power 
Turbocharger
Intercooler
EFI
Crank fired Ignition
Runs E85
Engineered
"The Lord does not subtract from the life of a man, the hours spent on his Volkswagen" Anon. |
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vlad01
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 07:56 PM |
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They are $3175 for that kit from CB. Quite good kit especially for newbies.
I plan to get one one day and do away with the ecu and throw in a megasquirt and water to air intercooler.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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 Yogie
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 08:29 PM |
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Here is the link http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1665 to the price on their website. US$1,795 seems OK for a full
system that is tested to work with an air cooled engine.
Yogie
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vlad01
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 08:32 PM |
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lol my bad i was thinking their EFI turbo kits not normal EFI 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 09:09 PM |
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EFI vs carbs for a turbo engine?
EFI will win everytime when properly tuned. You can adjust your mixture to be as near perfect as poss in every area of the rev range. The tuning is
the key. There are a lot of good ECUs to choose from these days. You just need someone who can tune it properly. So the question is my mind wouldn't
be, "is EFI worth it?", but rather, "who would you get to tune an aircooled turbo engine with EFI?". Brendon at production automotive has built
just such a setup, be worth talking to him. He's on the forum too.
Re the setup, I would look into some late factory twin port manifold ends with the injector bosses and a central custom made manifold. This would be
very easy to make too. This is the setup lots of the promod cars are using in the states. Then some sort of common throttle body. I just can't see
the need for twin or quad throttles on most turbo setups and if you want to confirm this look under the bonnet of a GTR and you'll see what I mean.
The other upside with this would be no need for balancing the TBs. It's also cheaper, which is always nice.
There are lots of guys who have done this sort of setup on the forced induction forum of Shoptalkforums in the US. Ask on there and see what they say,
but ultimately you will need a local to tune it. Ben Durie is up your way, have you talked to him?
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SuperOwen
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 09:22 PM |
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If your interested in single throttle body setups a good option is the mexican EFI manifold with any aftermarket computer of your choice. Have a look
on thesamba classifieds, theres a guy on there called mario putting together kits with Megasquirt computers for quite reasonable money which include
pretty much everything you need. I'm pretty sure Rod Penrose usually has second hand or new CB kits available as well
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pete wood
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 09:25 PM |
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yeah, that's what I was talking about.
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on September 18th, 2010 at 09:39 PM |
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try this thread out...
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=125546
and there are plenty more on this section of the forum too.
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dangerous
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| posted on September 19th, 2010 at 05:30 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
I would look into some late factory twin port manifold ends with the injector bosses and a central custom made manifold. This would be very easy to
make too. This is the setup lots of the promod cars are using in the states.
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While it is true that the centre section would be easy to make,
The factory cast manifold 'ends' are very flow restrictive, and are not suitable for a Pro Mod engine.
For blow through turbo system it will work well,
but being restrictive means it will cost power.
Ideally, a plenum on each side,
or larger, better flowing runners all the way to the head,
will allow the correct length to be built into the manifold, without being restrictive.
Pro-mod engines use much better flowing intake manifolds. So that part of your statement is incorrect.
For a normally aspirated EFI engine,
the factory EFI manifold and throttle body set will be way down on power
when compared with any dual carb, or throttle body set-up, due to the flow restriction.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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mactaylor
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| posted on September 19th, 2010 at 07:42 AM |
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how big a pleum? Is there a magic volume?
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
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beachbuggy61
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| posted on September 19th, 2010 at 08:46 AM |
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Thanks everyone, great info for me to digest. Thanks Pete, no I haven't talked to Ben, but I will include talking to him on my
research/buying/installment journey. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go the EFI way, but at the prices they are I might be playing at Stockton a little
while longer on the Kadrons while I save the bikkies! 
Will also chat to Rod this week and see what the go is. That Shoptalkforums is a great site too!
Cheers, Marc.
Baja
1915cc's of raw power
Turbocharger
Intercooler
EFI
Crank fired Ignition
Runs E85
Engineered
"The Lord does not subtract from the life of a man, the hours spent on his Volkswagen" Anon. |
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on September 19th, 2010 at 08:49 AM |
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in regards to sizing of plenums and intakes, Bernoulli's equation is ur answer  , google it up 
depends if u want high top end or good bottom end torque. Smaller diameter/longer inlet manifolds from plenum results in higher velocity air and
natural supercharging effects for ur low down power . But can get
restrictive at top end... but depends what range u wanna hang in...
Unless u go tricky and have the best of both worlds like Toyota TVIS or ACIS :P (naturally based on changing pipe cross sectional area (for tvis) or
length of plenum (acis) to achieve it. Its not hard. just involves a vac operated butterfly setup activated when a rev range is hit (via frequency
switch, after market ones are available)
To minimise flow losses u could use the info from bernoulli's to obtain a 'reynolds' number to make sure its slow enough velocity for laminar flow
(at least till it gets to the combustion chamber)
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 19th, 2010 at 08:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by beachbuggy61
Thanks everyone, great info for me to digest. Thanks Pete, no I haven't talked to Ben, but I will include talking to him on my
research/buying/installment journey. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go the EFI way, but at the prices they are I might be playing at Stockton a little
while longer on the Kadrons while I save the bikkies!
Will also chat to Rod this week and see what the go is. That Shoptalkforums is a great site too!
Cheers, Marc.
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yeah talk to Ben.....he has a dyno now and can tune the EFI for you.
there are a pair of throttle bodies and manifolds in the for sales at the moment. don't forget an intercooler in your plans.
have you spoken to the bloke down Newcastle way with the turbo efi manx?........it's a very nice set up. can't recall his name, but it ran hard at
the Valla races and was a very neat and reliable set up too
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SuperOwen
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| posted on September 19th, 2010 at 09:23 AM |
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With regards to plenum sizing I'm stuck with the factory german plenum volume, but the volume from the throttle plate to the airfilter has an effect
as well. I'm planning on just popping a filter on top of the throttle body for simplicity initially but then Id like to make up some simple variable
volume pvc thingy to try on the dyno once its all running well. If I find a volume that produces good results then Ill fab up something that fits in
the engine bay to produce the same effect.
There was a fellow in the states, (bob hemphill I think) who managed to get the same manifold setup as mine into the 10's in a fairly heavy car, but
just because its been done doesnt mean its the ideal way to chase that sort of performance.
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VDU.88A
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| posted on September 19th, 2010 at 07:03 PM |
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| Quote: |
have you spoken to the bloke down Newcastle way with the turbo efi manx?........it's a very nice set up. can't recall his name, but it ran hard at
the Valla races and was a very neat and reliable set up too
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Hey Daimo that would be Mick your thinking of with the blue manx a lot of time has gone into his setup but as you said it is reliable. Don't think he
is on here but next time im talKing to him i'll see if he is willing to share any info.
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