Ah yeah same ones just without the projectors.
wonder if they have the narrow beam pattern or if its just due to the projectors focusing the beam so much.
I ended up putting my projector foglights back on, they give a really wide low spread beam.
A fellow SBO member in germany is sending me an original factory Lbug foglight rocker switch which matches the headlight and hazard switches but
untill that gets here I managed to score a Porsche 914 foglight switch on ebay which uses the same style knobs as beetle so looks right at home.
may even leave that be
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posted on October 18th, 2010 at 09:58 AM
Looks factory!
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posted on October 18th, 2010 at 02:34 PM
giving away a few ac secrets there joel!
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posted on October 19th, 2010 at 12:28 AM
got a recent exterior pic? rumours around that your up to something mr, im out of the loop on nightshift
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I was sitting in a que at a servo on friday when the bloke at the bowser in front of me who was clearly an old car buff judging by the beautiful
condition of his XD falcon was looking rather puzzled at the front of my bug.
After he paid he came upto my window and said you got a subi in this thing? cos you got a radiator leak.
A look under my car revealed a tranquill waterfall cascading out underneath, but thanks to the 20000% humidity it was just my A/C drain
It reminded me I was gonna write up some info about it.
Till then anyway its quicker for me to put up a youtube vid explaining till I sort through all my pics and write soemthing up
Sorry about the low quality, it takes elebenty million years to upload a vid that lenght in HD.
I finally got the time lastweek to get it evacutated and charged up
I really need a hot day to try it out good and proper but buzzing down the highway at 100km/h on friday it was getting the interior temp down to 15c,
with an outside ambient temp of 24c so I'm happy
Smiley
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posted on November 7th, 2010 at 12:34 PM
"It's getting f*&king cold in here!"
Nice work Joel looks like an awesome setup. 15°C is way colder than you ever need to use anyway.
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Cheers, all those years working on commercial air conditioning taught me the temp that keeps everyone happy is 21c.
Cars with digital climate control generally have a lowest setting of 18 sometimes 16c, and manual control cars are generally fixed at 20c, any lower
than that tends to start icing things up
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posted on November 7th, 2010 at 07:09 PM
Super-fridgie eh?
Ain't been there, ain't done that.......yet :P
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posted on November 8th, 2010 at 09:18 AM
Is that a mates workshop of do you actually own a shed with alll that equiptment!
Be nice if my A/C worked.
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I would be the worlds happiest panda if I had a car hoist of my own.
Nah sadly that's a mates workshop
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posted on November 8th, 2010 at 01:10 PM
i see room for forced induction on the upper left of that engine bay, make with the sneezing joel u know u wanna, & dont say you dont need it cos
ur cool enough already
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posted on November 8th, 2010 at 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by STIDUB
i see room for forced induction on the upper left of that engine bay
Seconded!
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posted on November 8th, 2010 at 05:28 PM
good work!
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There's finally been enough hot weather to test the A/C out in all conditions like open highway, roundtown stop/start and bumper to bumper etc and
it's working well but also during damp humid rainy days its keeping the windscreen and door glass defrosted well too.
I originally looked into A/C back when I was doing up my first SBug in the 90s but it's taken till now to do something about it, kinda funny
considering I worked as a fridgy for several years and dad did it for 30 odd years.
A/C in aircooled VWs was never common in Aus, I've seen the odd baywindow Kombi with an overhead console and a few imported cars like the 76 Jap
import bug around here with original A/C but it was actually available since the early 60s in bigger and hotter markets like the US and Japan.
In fact Superbeetles which were created for the US market were actually designed to fit A/C, in particular the 73 onwards 1303 Lbugs like mine so they
had a vented front apron for the condenser and the dash had provisions for the outlets.
I've been Lbug mad for nearly 20 years now and whilst I'd seen several LHD US import bugs (mainly cabs) with A/C I'd never actually seen a RHD with
it till the bug that my setup came from which I'm fairly sure is a Jap market 1303 was being parted out about 6 months ago so I got all the dash
stuff from it.
Funnily enough since then though I've seen 2 more in aus, one was a RHD converted US cabrio so may have just been the original LHD setup hacked up to
fit but the other was an actual European spec 1303, possible another jap import
I didnt even notice it was a euro bug till I saw the VW1303 decklid badge
but it also had a 1300 engine, vented valance, 4 wheel drum brakes, Euro speedo and euro wipers not the aussie trico ones.
Sadly it had suffered the aussie tradition of being turned into a convertable and all the A/C stuff had been ripped out but the tell tale signs of it
were still there, the different fan shroud with offset left heater outlet, compressor mounts, pipework holes in the body and extra dash outlets
Damnit I'm pissed now, I thought I might have had the only one in Aus
Anyway for those that have never seen an original Lbug system, a freind from the US sent me these pics of his before and after he ripped it out LHD
obviously.
The condenser tucks up behind the front apron and seals to the bottom of the spare wheel well.
Lbugs with A/C are bad in one respect, in that abit of space is lost as the evap and fan sit ontop of the fuel tank but thats no loss to me as I never
keep anything except a few tools in there
It's actually good in another respect as the flat screen beetles all have it mounted under the dash and it's very intrusive.
I'm not an overly tall person but that setup is in the way of my knees.
The kits that were sold in the 60s for early bugs weren't as bad
The Compressor
I was lucky in this area in that my engine is already equipped with a compressor, although mounting one on a VW engine is no real challange
They originally came with piston style compressors which are huge old things
Mainly old York and tecumsie ones which are very innefficient by todays standards and load a vw down like dragging a boat ancor behind.
That 76 bug jap bug has an old original york one which worked till a few years ago but its a fuel injected engine and changing plugs is a job for a
contorsionist
Most people just retrofit modern rotary and scroll compressors which are heaps smaller and far more efficient
I actually had 2 subi compressors already as my donor car had one, and so did my replacement engine but the donors being 1992 was on R12 (the old gas)
and even though the other replacement one was on R134A (the new gas) it hadnt been sealed when the engine was removed.
Cleanliness is next to godliness when it comes to refrigeration as the refrigerant oil is hygroscopic and moisture in the system causes big
problems.
I had just planned at this stage on using the donors compressor and doing a naughty and running it on R12.
R12 vs R143A is exactly like leaded vs unleaded fuel.
12 actually works much better but only because of all the nasty shit in it, which is why it was replaced with 134A. if you ran todays car A/Cs on R12
they would probably give you hypothermia.
Dad has still got his car running on 12 even though it could have been converted through insurance after a front end accident several years back, just
because of how much better they work on 12.
Anyway I went and saw an old contact about making up the hoses for me and he mentioned he had a brand new genuine subi compressor that was supplied
with the wrong size pulley that I could have for some beer money
Well that was easy.....
I just pulled the pulley and clutch off one of my old ones and swapped it over
This did bring up one problem though.........The aluminium hardlines
I wasnt aware till I went to bolt everything together that Subaru (or Nippon-denso to be exact) changed the compressor ports when they switched to
R134A so my original donors ones didn't fit the new compressor.
Oh well easily fixed by getting some from a 97 outback from the subi boys.
Sweeeeeet
For people wondering about the non connected electrical crap on the side, thats part of a saftey system I dont have hooked up.
The sensor on the top is basically a motion detector, all it does is make sure the compressor is spinning at normal speed.
It's purpose is if the belt is loose and starts slipping this sensor will detect that its not spinning at the right speed and disengage the clutch so
the belt doesn't burn out
It also dropss the clutch out if the compressor siezes up, which they often do if a hose bursts and they dump all the oil.
The Condenser
This is probably the most challanging part of an A/C conversion in a VW, finding somewhere to put it thats got good airflow, is well protected and
doesnt take lots of hacking to fit
I was lucky with my watercooled engine i was able to just mount it infront of the radiator like a mainstream car.
But with the original kits for aircooled motors, obviously supers have one that sits behind the front valance like in the pics above but there has
been a few different layouts for standard bugs.
The 76 bug here has 2 condensers, a primary one over the fan shroud intake on the engine, and a secondary one with a fan up under the wheel well
infront of the beam, which the owner has managed to damage hitting a gaurd rail.
I don't like that layout, you're already loading up the engine with A/C without making things worse by preheating the fans cooling air.
The old 60s kits were better thought out and had twin condensers that sat either side of the gearbox,
The new Gilmore kits use the same layout.
The obvious downside......fine on a city car at stock height, but totally useless on anything lowered or that travels dodgy roads like I do.
Like a radiator, the most important thing is to make sure they're big enough for the job
I went with a Jay-air universal replacement condenser thats to suit a SWB Mitsubishi Express van/Starwagon.
They have 3x the interior space of a bug so it will never struggle to get rid of the heat
I've mounted a single 12" S-blade fan to it.
It was a piece of piss to mount, just tabs welded to my radiator supports top and bottom.
It runs into a universal Jay-air drier that I've mounted to the strut tower using an old Coil clamp
Theres a sight glass on the top and a safety pressure cutout switch so that if the system ever loses its gas or the head pressure gets to high it cuts
out.
Original super ones mounted under the left gaurd where they rusted bad and were suseptible to rocks
The Evaporator
I've pretty much copied the original Lbug system but just used a universal Jay-air formula evaporator
It's the smallest one they make but at 11200 BTU its ample for average sized sedans and stationwagons so a bug with 20% window tint it creams it
in.
Its got twin squirrel cage fans with a 3 speed motor that pumps out 190cfm which is shitloads and is self contained with its own drain pan, TXvalve,
thermostat probe and has 4x 2.5" outlets.
As it was being mounted in the boot I had to seal it into a box though so I could duct interior air into it
I made the box out of waterproof ply so like the radiator cover it is well insulated.
I've ducted in return air same as a standard system, through a big hose from the back of the glovebox, and just a smaller one on the other side.
The outlets are run into the cabin through the firewall inside the fresh air box like original into standard Lbug A/C ducting
I also removed the stock defroster fan and ran one of the spare outlets on the evap into the the fans original ducting
THis allows me to turn the windscreen knob below the radio and direct A/C onto the windscreen for demisting and it also connects to the little round
vents on the dash that demist the door glass.
As I said the unit moves a crapload of air, the only let down to the system is the Lbug ducting and tiny vents are alittle restrictive.
Not enough to be an issue, its moving enough air to work well but it will be better once I finish off a new project with better ducting and vents.
Overall I'm fairly happy, it takes up less room than an original...
Looks a bit neater too, Ive still got some finishing off to do under the hood, the rad box needs carpeting, a cover over the ducting and tidy the
wiring up better.
The Hoses
This is the most expensive part of the conversion, A/C hose is specialised high pressure stuff and runs at abit under $20 a meter.
Liquid line, Discharge and Suction
Mine has taken 10.2meters all up
I ran flexible all the way but Dad had suggested running aluminium rigid stuff under the sills to help with heat transfer but I was trying to keep
joints which are potential weak links to a minimum.
I've run the discharge from the compressor to the condenser under the drivers side sill and the suction from the evap back to the compressor under
the passanger side sill
Held by special insulated clamps.
Then it was just a matter of using fittings to suit.
Its a fairly specialised bit of gear that crimps the fittings to the pipework, I was lucky he had a little portable Hydraulic one that made life
easy
Straight fittings are no problem but you dont want 90 degree ones twisting the hose so they were crimped once the hoses had been run
Putting it all together was pretty easy like lego for grown ups, they're all O-ring fittings
It's been nearly 8 years since I worked in the game and I wasn't confident on my rusty skills
But after an a hour on the vac pump
VACUUM.......We like it alot
OMFG.....no leaks
Electrical Crap
The Jayair Formula kits like I've used just come with a fan speed control and electronic thermostat
I've mounted them in my center console
I really like the electronic thermostat idea.
Unless you have a car with digital climate control, 99.9% of manual control cars have fixed temp thermostats that are generally set around 19-20c
If thats not cold enough then too bad and if its too cold then turning the temp knob up just introduces heat from the heater core rather than changing
the A/C temp.
Kind of an oxy-moron in my books
If A/C is too cold then you make it work less, not make it work harder by introducing more heat
The coldest my thermostat has got down to before cutting out is an air off of 3.7c and a cabin temp of 15c
I still havent been able to determine the hottest setting yet but at 32.2c the other day it was still cutting out but only just so its probably 35c
Lets see who knows their car trivia....
The A/C control button is my own addition.
Can anyone pick what its from?
It actually had a painted matte silver finish originally but I scratched that off but the manufacturer used it in several models from the mid 80s up
till the late 90s
I added that because the system normally is always in A/C mode whenever the fan is turned on
If you need to stop the compressor running the whole system needs to be turned off.
Adding the button means it can be treated like a mainstream car A/C, just flicking the button off means the fan can be left running and thermostat
setting doesnt have to be disturbed but its no longer in a/c mode
Handy for steep hills and last minute overtake manouvers.
Although I must say I'm quite impressed by the way the engine handles a/c load, infact the only time I'm even aware of it running is rolling down
hills I can feel it cut in by the engine braking
Even lugging up a steep hill at 2k in 3rd or 4th gear when it cuts in I cant even notice a drop in power, but then again it is a 100kw engine, I'd be
pissed if i could feel it cutting in
I had to add the red LED light to the fan switch so I could actually tell when its running.
The engine computer controls when the compressor clutch pulls in
this is for a couple of reasons, firstly its so that it can rev the engine up a bit before it engages the clutch so it doesnt want to stall at idle
and is probably why I cant feel it cutting in while driving.
It also drops the clutch out when at full throttle so max power is there and it prevents the clutch from pulling in till 5 seconds after the engine
has started if the A/C has been left on.
This just gives the engine a chance to start easily and settle without the load of the a/c
Also on a very hot day if the car has only been turned off for a very short period the head pressure can still be very high so the compressor is very
hard to turn over which loads the starter motor up even more.
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posted on November 19th, 2010 at 11:48 AM
Cool write up....how bad a pun is that!
Top work though. Your projects always inspire me, but are often beyond my skill/comprehension level.
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posted on November 19th, 2010 at 11:52 AM
excellent write up, so when i find room to put a/c in mine your all good to do it for me? swap you a guard rolling job for it
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Hell, I didn't realise how long that post was till i had to scroll through it.
That oughta kill my photobucket bandwidth for the month
CHeers guys,
There;s a reason it took me more than a decade to do it, its pretty frustrating trying to air condition a car that was never really meant for it
Trying to run the lines was around suspension and engine parts was the worst aspect.
Trust me you all dont wanna see the chaos that is waterlines, a/c lines, electrical loom and kafer bar above my gearbox
I did design one thing into it though, I can just suspend the compressor by the decklid hinges if I ever drop the engine out, so that it doesnt need
to be evactuated again
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posted on November 19th, 2010 at 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by Joel
Hell, I didn't realise how long that post was till i had to scroll through it.
I thought you were trying to break a record!!!
Excellent work, I can only dream of doing that sort of stuff myself.
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posted on November 21st, 2010 at 06:20 PM
Excellent job there, the amount of problems and hold ups when doing these types of jobs can be a real PITA.
Could you educate me on the importance of a Reciever dryer in a system that is (should be) pressurized at all times?
Thankyou.
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Joel
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The Drier actually has a couple of jobs.
Obviously by its name one of the main ones is to act as a moisture absorber.
You really cant have moisture in a refrigeration system
Obviously because it can freeze up the system but also the oil that lubricates the compressor which is hygroscopic is pumped around the whole system
and with moisture in it its not going to be a good lubricant so compressor seizes, end of story
But its also filter and acts as an accumulator/storage tank
Any time the systems been opened the drier should really be replaced, they're not even expensive either, universal ones like the one I got are $30
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Lets just say paper may beat rock, but rock sure beats glass....... thank you mr anonymous Camry driver.
The Lucas inserts were just the ones that originally came with the mounts I got from a mini.
It literally took 5 mins to swap them over where as to put vw lights back in would mean removing the mounts and re-aiming so theyre just in it till I
work out what I'm doing
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posted on November 28th, 2010 at 09:40 PM
i was wondering about that too, happy enough with the projectors to buy them again?
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