| [ Total Views: 1751 | Total Replies: 18 | Thread Id: 5613 ] |
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 Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 24th, 2003 at 11:16 PM |
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CERAMIC COATING
I know all the benefits of ceramic coating exhausts, pistons etc but I would love to know about the benefits of coating your barrells and tinware and
other components of your engine.
I would think that coating your tinware would help with lowering your engine bay temperature, but would this then trap the heat within the engine ?
Coating your barrells would also trap heat in!
Can anyone shed some serious light (would prefer facts), not just feel good stories ?
Thanks:bounce
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 25th, 2003 at 10:45 AM |
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Anybody???????
Wes?
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 vw54
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| posted on April 25th, 2003 at 10:53 AM |
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I think Wes did a experiment for his Eng Degree at Uni on this subject
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jeffh
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| posted on April 25th, 2003 at 11:02 AM |
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OK Craig here goes my opinion as an engineer but never having used ceramic coatings.
the benefits claimed for ceramic coating are generally
1. durability at high teperatures (which is why it is being used for exhausts)
2. heat insulating properties (which is why it is being used for piston crowns and the inside surface of the cylinder head)
Think about the flow of heat within your engine.Heat is produced prinarily by combution withn the chamber and secondly by friction. This heat has
three main pathways to be removed.
-through the exhaust system
-by conduction to the outer surfaces of the engine (cylinder and head fins)
-by the oil to the oil cooler
If you ceramic coat the outside of your barrel and this material acts as an insulator as claimed, then it will restrict heat transfer to the cooling
air flowing around the cylinder, reducing the cooling of the engine.Bad news
As far as coating tinware look at it this way. When the engine is running the air in the engine compartment as basically fresh cool air which is being
pulled in by the fan and carbys. The tinware contains and directs this cool air to the barells and heads where it picks up heat and discharges below
the engine. Coating the tinware makes bugger all difference.
Jeff
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 25th, 2003 at 06:29 PM |
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Thanks Jeff, I thought this was the case.
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Woozy
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| posted on April 25th, 2003 at 06:57 PM |
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Check bajawes's web site .......
he actually did tests on painting barrels and monitoring the temps .......
Everyone needs something to belive in !
I belive i shall have a beer !
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waltermitty
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| posted on April 26th, 2003 at 12:45 PM |
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AFAIK there is more to it then that .As well as a heat insulating ceramic coating there is at least a heat radiating one as well this is the coating
used on heads and aids in dispersing head heat.
I belive Jak riz is using the radiating coating on his barells and insulating on the exhaust and pistons.Coating your tinware does make a very durable
and attractive finish colour can be used as well.
If you want the real low down talk to Richard at Vforce.
Mitchell .
23 windows ...8 too many!
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jakriz
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| posted on April 26th, 2003 at 07:03 PM |
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COMPETITION COATINGS
Robert Benk
10 Fernell Street
Guilford
2161
PH02 98922218
-Ceramic Barrier Coating
-Dry Film Lubricant
-Solid Film Lubricant
-Thermal Dispersants
-Metallic Ceramic Coatings
-Black Ceramic
-Teflon Coating
-Decorative Coatings
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 26th, 2003 at 07:11 PM |
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thanks to all :thumb
will call competition coatings on monday!
Would still be interested in any back to back research e.g 100deg before/90deg after etc
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70AutoStik
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| posted on April 27th, 2003 at 12:23 AM |
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Much as I hate to do it, I recommend having a look at Baja Wes' site - any paint- like coating on cylinders and heads is going to increase
heat-loss problems (I'm not an engineer, I mastered in Physics.)
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Baja Wes
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| posted on April 28th, 2003 at 05:28 PM |
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sorry guys I have been away from the computer for some time.
I agree with jeff, coating the barrels with an insulating ceramic is bad, any coating on the tin ware will make bugger all difference.
Putting a heat dispersing coating on the barrels is different. It won't have a bad effect like a ceramic coating, however it won't make much
of a difference in the end either.
The very small increase in heat transfer from the higher emissivity coating is counteracted by the reduction in heat transfer caused by the insulating
effect of the coating combined with the coatings effect of smoothing the surface (reduce air turbulence and heat transfer).
So basically in the end a bare cylinder and a black painted cylinder (a heat dispersion coating would be similar) are very similar, but the black
paint is a little worse off. And yes I tested it.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 28th, 2003 at 05:38 PM |
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I looked at your webpage wes, and thanks for your response.
My conclusions: Makes your tinware look pretty !!!
:thumb
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jakriz
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| posted on April 28th, 2003 at 05:40 PM |
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I'm pretty sure that I mentioned heat diassaption in my original comment on the 94mm barreel & piston post. I had my breast plate coated
first on
my tinware & the fact that u can lay your hand flat on it after the car has a had a hard run is prrof enough for me, thats why I've had the
rest of the tinware done. On the track doing 4000 - 7000 rpm for 10 minutes or more I'll take any protection that I can get. Don't care what
anyone thinks, if it's good enough for the Porsche guys in the club it's good enough for my souped up lawnmower as well
regards
Jak
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
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Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
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| posted on June 24th, 2004 at 09:33 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by jakriz
I'm pretty sure that I mentioned heat diassaption in my original comment on the 94mm barreel & piston post. I had my breast plate coated first
on
my tinware & the fact that u can lay your hand flat on it after the car has a had a hard run is prrof enough for me, thats why I've had the rest
of the tinware done. On the track doing 4000 - 7000 rpm for 10 minutes or more I'll take any protection that I can get. Don't care what anyone
thinks, if it's good enough for the Porsche guys in the club it's good enough for my souped up lawnmower as well
regards
Jak
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So Jak does the ceramic coating still look good on your tinware, or is it just as good to paint it.
Wanting to coat/paint my buggy tinware, looking at options.
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on June 24th, 2004 at 10:07 AM |
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I have used Hammerite paint from a rattle can, you can buy it from bunnings. I've had the 1835 in for 18months now and it is'nt discolouring or
flaking. It doesnt mind a bit of oil on it, I think its only slightly beginning to discolour where I had an oil leak. Of course you have to like the
hammered finish look though...... I did it because I am slack and didnt want to have to prep the tinware for paint - hammerite goes on with just a
cleaned surface that has been hit with a wire brush on an angle grinder.
On my first car, we powdercoated the tinwork - that stuff stood up for about 4 years and the only discolouration it had (it was white) was where I had
fuel leak from my shitty old 31 pict carby.
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oval TOFU
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| posted on June 24th, 2004 at 11:27 PM |
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I remember a company named JetHot. They had coatings that wered used in Funny cars etc and claims from drivers saying that the coating improve HP coz
of less heatsoak from the exhaust to the engine... Google search em?
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
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LOWBUG
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| posted on June 25th, 2004 at 08:39 AM |
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I've had my barrels coated at Competition coatings and although I've not done any testing Ive had no problems with the barrels and after 2 years of
flogging its ares off there dosn't seem to be any probs and the coating is still intacked.
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squizy
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| posted on January 4th, 2005 at 03:23 PM |
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Has anyone ceramic coated their wheels at all?
Squiz....
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70AutoStik
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| posted on January 7th, 2005 at 03:48 PM |
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Interestingly, there is a very unscientific editorial on painting vs chrome in the latest VW Trends mag. I agree with wes regarding treatments to the
tinware, ie make it the colour you like. The guy in VWT doesn't understand that his results were largely due to the size and shape of the parts in
questionm rather than the paint or chrome...
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malcolm
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| posted on January 7th, 2005 at 07:46 PM |
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another treatment process cryogenic treatment of engine parts it doesn,t just coats the surface but penetrates into the medium. ie tenex are doing
their ship props and I think 1 car manufacture is going to do all their welding tips .theres a company in vic called col fire treatment.
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speedster356
A.k.a.: Peter Mcleod
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| posted on January 7th, 2005 at 08:20 PM |
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Company here in Sydney
http://www.heat.com.au/Cryogenics.asp
Spyder-WISD 07-09-05 11.6s @ 125 MPH
Speedster-WISD Nats 05 14.4s @ 89 MPH
Jet cruiser-Coogee 22-09-05 900 deg C @ 110,000 rpm
Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals....................Except the Weasel.
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PurpleT3
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| posted on January 7th, 2005 at 09:53 PM |
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Ceramic coating/chrome plating/painting have nothing to do with cryogenic treatment. They are surface coating treatments used primarily for corrosion
protection and secondly for appearance. It is a happy fact that ceramic coating happens to be both very resistant to high temperatures as well as
having good thermal insulating properties.
Cryogenic treatment on the other hand is a thermal process used to increase the hardness and strength of parts. It does nothing to reduce corrosion,
improve appearance or increase or decrease heat dissipation.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
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speedster356
A.k.a.: Peter Mcleod
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| posted on January 8th, 2005 at 07:02 AM |
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Correct.:thumb
Spyder-WISD 07-09-05 11.6s @ 125 MPH
Speedster-WISD Nats 05 14.4s @ 89 MPH
Jet cruiser-Coogee 22-09-05 900 deg C @ 110,000 rpm
Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals....................Except the Weasel.
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