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 Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:35 PM |
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How to:- main seal replacement
Leaking main seals are a common problem in upright and type 3 motors so i thought i'd do a how to article on replacing one as
i was doin one today
its a very simple job if u can drop a motor out u can defiatley handle this
the seals generally start leaking for a couple of reasons.
if the motor has been stored for a few years and is just started up the seal is dry and deteriorates or a motor is worn in the bottom end and the
excess crankplay tends to flog out the seal and also doesnt allow the flywheel to seat against it properly
or the seal is just a crappy brazilain or mexican one that just doesnt have the quality of a german one
i'll cover the method i use
i'm not saying its the wrong or right way its just how i've always done it and none of the engines i've put new seals have failed yet and one has
done over 52000miles
it was a shitty rainy day today so i decided to start doing something about the vws laying around the place so i dont start pissing off the
neighbours
the subject in question is one of my Lbugs
it has been off the road since 2000 but in true volkswagen reliability when given some fuel and a jump start fired up first go
in true volkswagen tradition tho a look underneath revealed a massive incontinence probelm coming from the bellhousing
PS this photo was yesterday hence the sunshine.....
[ Edited on 9-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:35 PM |
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when getting a new seal and O ring(or gasket on some 6volt motors) that goes into the fly wheel
be sure to get the genuine german elring orange style not the crappy black brazilan rubbish
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:35 PM |
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obviously the first step is to drop the motor out
b4 u do this just check if the motor has any crank play as its easier to check for movement when its bolted in the car not bouncing round on the
floor
if u have got play u'll need to get a dial indicator and work out how thick to go with the shims but if u have over 1-2mm movement i'd say ur
motors up for some TLC
altho i have had a motor that had 1.2mm play and that was only due to the fact some clever cookie had only installed 1 shim (u need 3)
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:36 PM |
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ok before removing the clutch put some index marks on the clutch and flywheel so they can be put back in the same postion to try and maintian some
balance
evenly remove the 6 bolts holding the pressure plate on and remove the pressure plate and clutch plate
find some way to lock the flywheel so it doent turn
a large blade screw driver in one of the teeth against one of the bottom studs does the job if ur gentle
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:36 PM |
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check the friction surfaces on the flywheel and pressure plate for distortion or heat damage etc
and the clutch plate itself too
i had to take the bug for a few burns around the farm in the wet just for kicks so the clutch plate as u can see has a nice coating of oil
[ Edited on 9-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:37 PM |
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also the thickness of the plate needs to be checked
generly if i can fit anything smaller than an 8mm open ender of the edge i replace it
no point in reusing a worn clutch plate if ur only gonna have to drop the motor out again in 5000kms to replace it
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:37 PM |
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now to remove the flywheel
this is my "helper" anyone who works on vws should have one
its just a lenght of angle iron one end is drilled for 180mm fly wheels and the other for 200mm and also a drilling for 4Lug drums
very handy when undoing those bastard axle nuts
there are little locking tools shaped like batman symbols that bolt thro one of the engine mounts and lock the flywheel
very handy but i;ve just never bothered getting one
crack out the 36mm socket on the 3/4 drive breaker bar and undo that bigass gland nut holding the flywheel on
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:37 PM |
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once the nut's off the best thing to remove the flywheel is 3legged puller but if u dont have one gentle use of a jimmy bar can pry it off by working
around in small stabs
when its out of the way u'll see the bastard seal thats causing all the problems
just grab a screw driver and lever it out
also check that the little oil drain passage (just visibale in the teh lower left of the bore) isnt blocked either as this can cuase leaks from here
which has the ability to make a sane man tear his hair out
as u can see this was just a crappy black brazilian seal
the tiny sealing surface was pealing off everywhere
[ Edited on 9-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:38 PM |
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u can see here the german seal has a much larger lip area that the flywheel runs against
and while ur at it lever out that little O ring in the flyhwheel flange
some older 6 volt beetles have metal or paper gaskets instead of this oring
so it may just be a case of checking what u have first
[ Edited on 9-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:38 PM |
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give the groove a good cleanout and coat the new oring in clean oil and slip it in
clean the seating area in the case really thorougly and it may also be necessary to get a stanley knife and put a slight chamfer on the case edge so
the new seal doenst get damaged
give the new seal a coat of sealent around the outside edge
[ Edited on 9-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:39 PM |
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get a nice flat piece of wood a bit bigger than the seal and use this with a mallet to tap the seal in
this way it goes in nice and square and stops when its flush with the case
wipe off the excess sealent and check that its nice and flush with the case
this is why alot start to leak ppl push them in to far
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:39 PM |
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if possible i then try and give the sealent as long as possible to cure
its now ready for reassembly
if ur endfloat was ok coat the shims lighly in oil and slide them onto the crank.
give the new seal a bit of oil too on the sealing surface and also on the flywheels running surface is a good idea too then position the flywheel on
the crank
refit the helper and do up the nut to the right tension
i couldnt tell u the correct value but i just go by feel
also some grease in the glandnut bearing wouldnt go astray
when refitting the clutch the ideal way to center the clutch plate is to use an old input shaft, but i have heard of ppl using a piece of dowel or
even doing it by eye
its important to line up the index marks put on during dissasembly and also do the pressure plate bolts up evenly and a few turns a time in a criss
cross pattern so u dont distort the pressure plate
[ Edited on 9-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 06:40 PM |
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that done ur pretty much right to bolt the engine back in
and sit back and admire ur handy work
it can be very satisfying firing up an engine u just fixed up
and hopefully that will get u back on the road
if i;ve left anything important out scream out so i can edit the post
if anyone wants some more info or pics just u2u me
good luck
-Joel
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 08:56 PM |
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Very well done Joel...
and I read it mostly to see if you oiled the new seal...
and You did... good one..
I have a seal installing tool and its made to push the seal in past the edge of the engine...
I have read where the seal should be pushed in so it can't rub on the back of the flywheel...
but You say not to push it right in...
have you ever had any problems with the flywheel rubbing on the seal??
and Ok on the Red Elring oil seal...
they are very inexpensive so I don't know why anyone would use the black ones...
The gland nut tension is about the same as a 5 foot length of pipe on a socket... or as tight as You can...
again...
good One Joel...
One question though... How do you measure the end play with the engine in the car?
Someone asked Me that same question today...
I didn't have the answer...
cheers
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 09:01 PM |
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Hi again Joel,
All the John Deere Gators I've seen are GREEN...
why is yours Yellow??
Is it a JD Industrial rather than agricultural machine.??
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 09:08 PM |
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hi Lee,
i have seen in manuals using giant sockets to push them in
i;ve always just left them flush with the case
to my way of thinking for the seal to do its job properly it would need to be lightly contacting the flywheel
but i maybe wrong
i've installed 8 or so like that and no probs yet
ur right u cant measure the endplay in the car easily...
it could be done measuring off the crank pulley but would be very hard to set up
i just do a rough estimate whilst its in the car if theres any movement there then when its out i put the dial indicator on
i dunno why that gators yellow
its a worksite diesel maybe only petrol ones are green
but its a bloody handy thing to have and has a 500kg carry ablitly
-Joel
[ Edited on 9-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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CHADMYSTER
A.k.a.: Allan McGrath
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| posted on November 9th, 2006 at 09:17 PM |
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Joel, you have U2U.
AL |
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1500S
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 05:41 AM |
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The seals are pushed in FLUSH with the case and can't rub on the back face of the flywheel. Nothing wrong with using the piece of wood as above but
I still have a few of the dedicated tools left for doing this job if anyone around the Sydney area needs one.
DH
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vwking
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 posted on November 10th, 2006 at 05:49 AM |
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seal replacement
you have been bussy should see it on the road shortley
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Joel
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 04:13 PM |
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still got a bit to do yet
ol girl has no brakes and a piss weak excuse for a handbrake and a fly landing on the bonnet could bottom those struts out...:o
but on the upside no leaks from the main seal
that stupid adjustble pushrod tho is another matter
-Joel
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68AutoBug
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 04:26 PM |
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I've never actually seen one of those adjustable pushrod tubes on an engine before...
there are a few different types...
spring loaded etc...
and I've told people about them...
and never heard whether they leak etc..
but I have read where they hold the heat too much
compared to the original thin pushrod tubes...
the [hot] air flowing over them helps cool the oil...
Make sure the pushrod tube seals are Neoprene..
the Brazillian/Mexican ones are rubbish...
although I have had them cracked badly and they didn't leak as I coat both sides with Permatex No3 Avaition jointing cement...
but they cracked thu age not heat etc... so not good...
cheers
Lee
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 04:31 PM |
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That head looks very clean compared to the rest of the engine??
engine has been leaking oil for a very long time...
and driven on dusty roads by the look of the grime...
cheers
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Joel
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| posted on November 10th, 2006 at 04:42 PM |
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i think the engine has been rebuilt not long ago a its a good runner and has spot on compression but the maain seal was leaking very badly so its
coated the under side of the case
the young girl that owned it used to drive from casino to toowoomba every weekend but in 2000 this happened
BANG...LOL
it must have really scared the crap out of her coz when she got home she parked it and bought a new car
its just been sitting around ever since
i snapped it up coz its one of the straightest Lbugs ive seen despite its rough apperance
poor thing woulda ended up crushed
but yes its very grimey
i reckon the air cleaner hadnt been cleaned in 10 years
i could have got 2 cups of bull dust out of it
-Joel
[ Edited on 10-11-2006 by DUB74L ]
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vwking
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| posted on November 11th, 2006 at 05:27 AM |
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i am glad it went to a good home:bounce
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