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 ian.mezz
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| posted on May 6th, 2009 at 07:41 PM |
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Josh and I use the stock sump and we have stock suspension and the sumps have hit the ground real hard a lot of times, but no leaks yet ,
plus they were already damaged from the motors been dragged around on the floor .
stock sumps are cheap and you could fab up a little bash plate.
Ps they only hit the ground on boost on uneven road. 
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hellbugged
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| posted on May 6th, 2009 at 07:52 PM |
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yeah, Ian, stock height and heavy torsion bars is the key..........
they do get holes in em tho 
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Joel
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| posted on May 6th, 2009 at 10:26 PM |
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they take a bit of a beating
what u using for headers mick?
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 7th, 2009 at 07:27 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
Alright, need advice re shortened sumps.
Question 1 - are they the same on all EJ20 engines. Some seem really low, while mine currently is about 20mm or so below the oil filter. Not much of a
clearance saving - or is the idea to also do something about the oil filter?
Question 2 - any known issues with shortened sump? I have read all the other material about them on the forum, just want an update if any issues.
Question 3 - has anyone cracked the original by hitting it on the ground?
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Mick, I had welded a 5mm thick bash plate to mine that lasted almost 4 years! I ended up making my own sump & it cost $45.
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/forum/uploads/1237377750/gallery_295_6_52745.jpg
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/forum/uploads/1237377750/gallery_295_6_56973.jpg
I've only shortened it an inch as it's now just a touch higher than the factory headers. I have never ever hit the oil filter, leave the factory
unit where it is.
regards
Jak
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Mick058
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| posted on May 7th, 2009 at 07:55 AM |
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Jak, what happened at the 'almost 4 years' mark? Bust the original or just thought to change.
Headers wise, im not 100% Joel, will try and catch up with Brad tonight - idea is to re-do it all, but as to where and how high - not sure yet.
So, just on question 1 - are all the sumps the same on EJ20 motors? Seems like a lot of work/cost for about a 20mm or so saving in clearance.
Does it put the oil filter at risk of being hit? OR do you make sure headers come just below it?
Guess it depends how low the car sits aswell, suspension setup etc.
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 7th, 2009 at 08:02 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
Jak, what happened at the 'almost 4 years' mark? Bust the original or just thought to change.
Headers wise, im not 100% Joel, will try and catch up with Brad tonight - idea is to re-do it all, but as to where and how high - not sure yet.
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The almost 4 years came about that I had forgotten that my children were getting bigger, now 9 & 6, when I drop them to school I was noticing that
i was "touching" speed humps in their school more & also the driveway out it was touching. I then realised that the kids were getting bigger,
slightly.
It's not a problem for all the Mums in their BMW & Merc 4wd though LOL.
As for the headers, be careful as on the rexxy forums, they all complain from a lack of bottom end torque after changing the stock headers.
regards
Jak
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Mick058
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| posted on May 7th, 2009 at 08:33 AM |
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thanks Jak, will keep that in mind re the headers - Brad may already be on top of that too.
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psimitar
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| posted on May 7th, 2009 at 10:32 PM |
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Modifying the sump is fairly easy mate. You lop off however much you wish and fabricate an inverted T to weld onto whats left of the original sump.
The inverted T means you keep the same volume of oil in the sump.
Take a look at Custom Veedub in stafford brisbane and you'll see what i mean.
Custom Veedub shortened sump
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 07:47 AM |
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yeh i understand what you mean - i know capacity is the key - you need to make sure you add 'wings' or a make a 'T' shape as you say to keep
capacity.
$600 though - a bit of dosh for 20mm or so gain (maybe less??). Also alot of debate in regards to shortening it all, even while increase capacity via
width.
I think ill wait for now and see how it goes. The anti surge Pobjoy sump hung pretty low but i never hit it. Gear changes and a squat in a Sti engine
may change that fact though.
Even i shortened it i would need to go for a remote oil filter, otherwise it will be the lowest thing and the saving clearance would not be worth it.
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 08:39 AM |
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Some pics for people to see.
Sorry, there not that exciting, but at least its visual!
Gives an idea of clearance etc. Obviously the car isn't completely settled here - rolled it back and forth a little, but it would sit a little lower
than this. Plus, currently no oil, water, intercooler, heat exchanger etc - so a little more weight out back to come.
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 08:41 AM |
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u are going to have so much fun scaring the poo out of yourself everytime u drive it!.
I do
Jak
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:02 AM |
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be interesting to see the dyno figures....or scary really...
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:15 AM |
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Hi Mick
The car is looking good, I will have to come over for a look soon.
I have a bugs@5speed sump for my car, I haven't fitted it as yet.
With varying opinions on shortening sumps Ive invested in a 2 quart (1.8 litre) Accsump from Canton Racing to alleviate any oil starvation issues mand
to do a pre lube before starting. [img]http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/getimage.php?id=24-016[/img]
I will need to remotely mount the oil filter to run the Accusump.
The commonly available oil take off blocks have the fitting ports pointing straight down, by the time the fittings are fitted they end up lower that a
stock oil filter.
So Ive also ordered a take off block from Canton [img]http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/getimage.php?id=22-597[/img]
I'm planning on using the stock oil 2 water cooler until it proves unreliable, but Jak has said in another post that his oil temps with the stock
cooler are fine, getting rid of the stock oil cooler would raise the oil fliter.
Steve
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:27 AM |
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with the sump that I made, I now have an oil capacity of 6 litres, up from the standard 5 litres. With the standard sump I only get my oil temps up to
90d on the track, thats after 5 laps around Eastern Creek on a 35d day. Now my oil temps are even lower! The last thing u need is a cooler on these
things. U will never get the oil hot enough.
Keep as much of the factory stuff as possible & keep it simple, keep it reliable
Jak
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:30 AM |
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so your not mounting a radiator at all for the oil?
And Jak, you have no issues this way either?
I'm not planning on running an oil cooler, but may in the future if i find the temps are high - if i shorten the sump, then i will get the oil cooler
kit which runs a remote oil filter.
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:32 AM |
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beat me to it.
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:38 AM |
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There is absolutely no reason to run an oil cooler with these motors. I have done countless trips on the freeway in the middle of summer sitting on
140kph, over 15 track days & never had the oil over 90d & thats an extreme temp for my oil. It's always much lower particularly on the street
which is where our cars spend most of their time.
Spend your money elsewhere Mick. There is no reason to complicate these conversions with extra lines & coolers. there is enough of that as it
is.
Jak
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squizy
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:39 AM |
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Mick are you running a narrowed beam? I want to throw this question out for comment if you are....
If you're running a narrowed beam, with all of that extra power, will it not make the car more prone to oversteer even swinging right around for that
matter if it does get away from you? And therefore you might need to consider putting in a normal width beam to give you that extra front track, and
therefore stability?
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 09:52 AM |
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fair comment - what do people think? I have heard this from others too Squizy.
I had some 'advice' when i first had the car that i 'needed' to run a narrowed bar to keep the wheel choices - this was early on in the and i was
on a steep learning curve.
I believe CT runs the same wheels without the narrowed beam and i believe not a whole bunch of negative camber.
Brad (westi) - what do you think? how much labor?
I have thought about this, forgot to ask Brad about it last night - better now then later! Also, i don't mind running a bit of Neg camber if i need
to as its not a daily driver!
I could probably find someone to do a swap with if i needed too.
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 10:43 AM |
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Hi
The factory water 2 oil coolers also give a faster warm up.
Mick before you decide to ditch the narrowed beam, think about future wheel choices, if you had any in mind that is.
17" Turbo twists would look good on your car.
Steve
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 10:50 AM |
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tell me, by increasing wheel size on a narrowed beam, saying i increase 1inch track per side - will this result in the same outcome as a standard
beam?
Or, if i added spacers to the current beam - say 1inch thick each side - would that be the same outcome as having a standard beam?
So what im saying is, will handling improve by sticking the wheels out further, or does the narrowed beam issues come simply from the fact that its
narrowed?
Does this make ANY sense?
So is it all to do with wheel positioning, or will handling still suck simply due to the fact that the beam is narrowed, no matter how much i 'push'
the wheels out.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:07 AM |
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If you want to do a swap for the beam let me know..................i would be interested inyour narrowed beam.
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:10 AM |
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well convince me Craig 
Any input to the above questions?
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:12 AM |
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Hi Mick
Spacers are no no.
But for the exercise sticking 1 inch spacers on a 2 inch narrowed beam is not the same as having a non narrowed beam.
The centre line of the tyre/wheel if using spacers is is moved further out from the centre pivot line of the steering knuckle, this will have many
effects, extra load on wheels bearings, more likely that the suspension will be upset undulations and potholes etc.
Steve
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:12 AM |
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accumen  ..................start reading suspension
books dude !!!!!!
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psimitar
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:15 AM |
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pushing the wheels out on spacers will give you back the more stable handling of a stock beam but you'll then increase the stress on the front
bearings due to shifting the load further out. In extreme load conditions, heavy cornering whilst braking, this could cause the stub axle to break
off. its all about the point of leverage
Imo the shortened beams are for looks and the standard beam for handling but thats me 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:19 AM |
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ha, well, worth asking - i could pretend i know all the answers and post rubbish all over the forum quoting even dumber guys from other forums.
Thanks Steve, i figured this would be the answer considering trailing arms and the like are still in the same position - didn't think of 'loads'.
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:22 AM |
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Accumen or Acumen Craig??
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
accumen ..................start reading suspension
books dude !!!!!!
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ian.mezz
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:52 AM |
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when you get your blue slip , the sump has to comply with the 100mm ground clearance
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Mick058
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| posted on May 8th, 2009 at 11:59 AM |
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i thought you had a standard sump too?
don't think the anti surge sump cleared 100mm
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
when you get your blue slip , the sump has to comply with the 100mm ground clearance
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