| [ Total Views: 4248 | Total Replies: 142 | Thread Id: 76859 ] |
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 sander288
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 09:38 PM |
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Subaru Invasion
I can see the benefits of having a subaru motor in your bug or bus, but I really feel that its becoming to common place! I think some people are
getting to far away from the VW hobby and perhaps should join a subaru club instead, I mean the reason most of us got into the hobby is for what the
car is, 'aircooled', and in my opinion watercooling and adding so much more weight to the back of a bug just seems wrong.
If you want performance there is so many reliable VW engine options out there, and you'll spend just as much as you would converting your car over to
pump water. Look at Craig Torrens and especially Greg Ward, greg drives his car to all his rounds and then takes out the class win!
I was at the supersprint to, and I did see how quick the Subaru powered cars were but to be honest they weren't that quick nor entertaining, you
couldn't hear them and in my opinion that black bug looked like more fun!
Sorry if this annoys the shit out of some people but that my 2 cents and I needed to get it off my chest.
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Gringo_54_oval
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 09:41 PM |
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give me webber induction any day
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PAZZAN
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 09:43 PM |
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ITS ALL ABOUT BANG FOR BUCKS
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PAZZAN
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 09:45 PM |
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POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO ....CAR BALANCE ..AIR COOLED IS HARD TO BEAT....
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sander288
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 09:50 PM |
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I know that it is hard to argue bang for bucks, but really if you want a performace vehicle, that is completely driveable and reliable, buy a GTI
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General_Failure
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 11:01 PM |
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As far as I'm concerned it all comes down to "Your car, Your money". I won't stop someone from doing an all original resto, or dropping a
smallblock V8 into a baja bus. One of the best thing about the ACVWs are the openess of design that allow an owner to express their personality and
ideas through their vehicle.
I think a lot of people are like me. They love the design and simplicity of the original motors, however would like the reliability and availability
of parts that a newer motor allows. I like to drive VWs, and would rather not spend months trying to source some random part when it chooses to have
it's scheduled dummy spit.
I am seriously considering an engine swap so I can continue driving my bay. It will never be a show pony or a concours resto, but it is pretty much
rust free and has the potential to continue menacing people in a hurry for decades to come, assuming I still have a way to power it.
They don't _need_ to be substituted with a subie motor, but they are still a very nice flat four in the general spirit of the original VW motor. They
have good weight distribution and are a good fit.
I want to be able to drive and enjoy my VW, not stare at it in the carport worrying about what will break next.
That's my $0.02
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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 helbus
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 11:05 PM |
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I agree in some part. I personally would not change the engine of our Beetle to any other type. There is enough stoking hot performance gear and
knowledge to do a real good setup.
However in our Bay bus, the stock 2.2 Subaru engine was a great way to economically and reliably repower an everyday vehicle. Type 4 engines are much
more expensive to do anything to compared to the Beetle's Type 1 engine.
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555bug
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 11:12 PM |
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who cares, 25 million bugs out there. Your car, your $$, your decision
why can't people see beyond their own perspective?
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Andy
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 11:44 PM |
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I se Honda is bring out a 2L flat 6 in the Goldwing (bike).
Might be a good option also
I love my VeeDubs, and their original motors, but would consider an AC deisel as a replacement power plant if I ever felt the need to change.
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GTMac
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| posted on May 28th, 2009 at 11:50 PM |
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So exactly how many of the super quick bugs did you see actually drive there themselves????? I know of one Suby Bug that drove there, has done plus
100k kms, drives kids to school each day, does the shopping run and ran 1:14s, not bad for a non entertaining car!
So the 6 spins that Paul did in his Suby Bug were less entertaining than the 6 spins that Rod did in his aircooled Bug?
I am assuming that you were a spectator, maybe I should have taken you for a drive in my Suby Fasty as its the most fun I have had and didnt realise I
was their to entertain anyone else and if you couldnt hear my car better check the wax.
My next track car is a 2.3 Type 4 L Bug, but I dont expect to do a mild tune on it and get a reliable 250bhp atw for the same $$$.
Werent there only 4 Suby powered cars out of 52 competing? 
1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers.
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn? 
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 12:52 AM |
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Hi
Andrew, you beat me to it, each to their own I say, if don't like them, don't look at them or buy every VW to keep for yourself to stop them being
molested.
Steve
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 03:38 AM |
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I dropped the kids to school Friday morning, raced in group 1 at Wakefeild on Saturday with the sport sedans, drove to the show on Sunday &
picked the kids up from school Monday afternoon (forgot that I left them there all weekend). Thats having your cake & eating it too. Oh , & I
only used 1/4 of a tank of petrol on the track.
Entertainment? Seeing GTMac kick the snot out of a V8 mustang lap after lap in his wrx fastback had me grinning like an idiot!
In saying that, I could listen to the sound of Zanello's 2L air cooled motor all day.
Jak
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mac76
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 06:06 AM |
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how much does it cost to build a reliable 250hp aircooled motor maybe rudi should chime in!
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rose
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 08:17 AM |
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yeah webbbbbberrr I love the sound
having said that I also like the sound of the turbo spooling up and the blow off valve in my other bug
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Gringo_54_oval
give me webber induction any day
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[img][/img]
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Mick058
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 08:37 AM |
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yeh, each to their own - i love the sound of webers, but only for so long too. Sounds great when you give it some, but you ears hurt after no too
long.
Bang for buck for me and ease of replacement. Though i would really love an original 40hp with pee shotters. I know, it sounds funny, but i love it -
was my first car and first engine i could recognise from miles away - love it!! (not as loud as webers too!!)
If every beetle had a 1916 with dual webers the scene would be a little boring - tops on ya to those who build big aircooled engines with turbos etc -
but lucky them for having the dosh too!
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rose
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 08:50 AM |
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the 62 bug is pretty cool to drive as well with the cricket noise coming out of the pee shooters
It's good just have one of each than you can pick what mood you are in for the day to match the bug you want to drive
The fuel injected vw powered bug has a nice note as well.
[img][/img]
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Mick058
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 08:57 AM |
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living the dream
| Quote: | Originally
posted by rose
the 62 bug is pretty cool to drive as well with the cricket noise coming out of the pee shooters
It's good just have one of each than you can pick what mood you are in for the day to match the bug you want to drive
The fuel injected vw powered bug has a nice note as well.
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polak
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:10 AM |
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everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go
fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys 
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years |
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GTMac
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by polak
everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go
fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys
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Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all
the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty!
1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers.
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn?
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by GTMac
| Quote: | Originally
posted by polak
everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go
fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys
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Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all
the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty!
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thought there would be someone to make that comment lol.... by original style i meant an air cooled flat 4. i really admire people pushing the
envelope and pulling of some amazing engineering work and there are some great cars out there with interesting engine combos, but my personal feeling
is that a) subaru motors are getting too common in originally air-cooled vw's and b) its just a shame to mess with the character or the old air
cooled cars, the engine makes them what they are and what millions of ppl and many generations originally fell in love with.
each to their own i guess, but i agree with rose.
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
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Mick058
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 10:50 AM |
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Go for a ride in a suby powered then look in the mirror and see if your smiling. I know you can get that in aircooled too, but again, big power big
bucks.
i like the idea of old style with modern parts.
depends what you want it a car - early body swing axle beetle with cable brakes??? Each has its advantage and disadvantage - cruiser or speed?
If i had a splitty it would definitely feel like a cruiser - but with a beetle, i like the under dog approach - laugh at it until you see how fast it
is Even better is the look on someones face when you tell them you put an Sti engine in a 58 beetle
| Quote: | Originally
posted by polak
| Quote: | Originally
posted by GTMac
| Quote: | Originally
posted by polak
everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go
fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys
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Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all
the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty!
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thought there would be someone to make that comment lol.... by original style i meant an air cooled flat 4. i really admire people pushing the
envelope and pulling of some amazing engineering work and there are some great cars out there with interesting engine combos, but my personal feeling
is that a) subaru motors are getting too common in originally air-cooled vw's and b) its just a shame to mess with the character or the old air
cooled cars, the engine makes them what they are and what millions of ppl and many generations originally fell in love with.
each to their own i guess, but i agree with rose.
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 11:22 AM |
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again each to their own, but i think there is an even better reaction from ppl when u blow away an xr8 and then at the next lights u let him know its
an aircooled 4 cylinder :P
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
Go for a ride in a suby powered then look in the mirror and see if your smiling. I know you can get that in aircooled too, but again, big power big
bucks.
i like the idea of old style with modern parts.
depends what you want it a car - early body swing axle beetle with cable brakes??? Each has its advantage and disadvantage - cruiser or speed?
If i had a splitty it would definitely feel like a cruiser - but with a beetle, i like the under dog approach - laugh at it until you see how fast it
is Even better is the look on someones face when you tell them you put an Sti engine in a 58 beetle
| Quote: | Originally
posted by polak
| Quote: | Originally
posted by GTMac
| Quote: | Originally
posted by polak
everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go
fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys
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Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all
the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty!
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thought there would be someone to make that comment lol.... by original style i meant an air cooled flat 4. i really admire people pushing the
envelope and pulling of some amazing engineering work and there are some great cars out there with interesting engine combos, but my personal feeling
is that a) subaru motors are getting too common in originally air-cooled vw's and b) its just a shame to mess with the character or the old air
cooled cars, the engine makes them what they are and what millions of ppl and many generations originally fell in love with.
each to their own i guess, but i agree with rose.
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VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
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Mick058
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 11:33 AM |
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Agreed  i just can't afford it. One day
| Quote: | Originally
posted by polak
again each to their own, but i think there is an even better reaction from ppl when u blow away an xr8 and then at the next lights u let him know its
an aircooled 4 cylinder :P
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RISKYBUG
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 12:20 PM |
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it looks like you opened a can of worms mate 
i can see both points but hey my car my choice
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 12:28 PM |
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Hi
OK, fit a Subi engine in a bug, say a EJ20T with about 200 RWHP, every now and again change oil, coolant and plugs, every 100,000ks fit a timing belt
and drive its tits off.
A 200 RWHP aircooled bug, lots of maintenance and rebuilds $+$
As I said before, if you don't like them ignore them, we're the one in front.
Steve
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 12:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
OK, fit a Subi engine in a bug, say a EJ20T with about 200 RWHP, every now and again change oil, coolant and plugs, every 100,000ks fit a timing belt
and drive its tits off.
A 200 RWHP aircooled bug, lots of maintenance and rebuilds $+$
As I said before, if you don't like them ignore them, we're the one in front.
Steve
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hehehe, funny to see how defensive ppl get on here, i thought this was just general chit chat where ppl express their opinions on different things,
noone said anything about not liking subi engines or that they were in any way bad, and ill agree with you that at high hp figures, they produce more
relaible HP but if you want to start getting technical if u were running a 200hp subi engine in a beetle, then you would only need a 150hp aircooled
vw engine to keep up as it doesnt have to carry all the extra weight. in which case, if they were both 200hp, you would be the one looking to see who
is in front :P
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 12:50 PM |
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but you dont need 200hp atw....
subie is the best option if you want to do a conversion.................but ask the people who have to pay for someone to do the conversion what it
cost them, and i think you will find that a 110-120hp aircooled motor will cost far less to do.
Polak, you dont need anywhere near 150hp to keep up with a subie car on the track.............and i think you will find that a high performance vw
powered beetle would be quicker through winding road driving as well.
the subie powered at straight line work should blow the beetle away (and this should be evident at Warwick if the subie powered vehicles
go)..............but then looking at the video from Wakefield, with the cars going down the main straight this didn't really seem the case?
I would still like a subie powered vw in the garage.................but then the ford does a better job caring my kid around
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MrSmith
Casual Dubber
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 12:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
but you dont need 200hp atw....
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When a 40HP 1200 motor will still exceed the speed limit and get you a ticket.
Each to their own, as they say different strokes for different blokes.
I like looking at all different cars which are standard modified or completely custom it shows the creativity and personality of the owner,
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STIDUB
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Over it.
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 01:03 PM |
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should an wrx bug be classed as a retrotech thing (look in street machine mag) same as say an LS1 in F* H* E* etc type holdens, classic looks with
modern comforts / reliability, best of both worlds is ultimately what it comes down to really, it may be cheating but at the end of the day when your
minister of finance/bank manager etc says you only have x amount of $$$ would you spend the time & $$$ on a go fast aircooled that will require
near constant maintainence & last a few yrs before total rebuild because its so overly stressed its likely to go bang, or spend it on a subie or
similar then have an engine that easily pumps out the same power & only needs basics like steve said? theres only a few benefits of staying
aircooled in my eyes, you can get away with pure engine work, no mod plates or anything like that, and it looks original/can be returned to stock, and
a go fast aircooled could be bought peice by peice therefore seemingly cost less, if you dont care about those things & just want the best you can
get for the dollar... what would you do?
personally i can appreciate both ways of making a vw quick, but then again i like just about anything someone has put effort into doing it nicely
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
The above are personal views, no more, no less |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8636
Threads: 559
Registered: August 27th, 2002
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Location: Sydney, NSW
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 01:16 PM |
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Hi
OK so you don't need 200RWHP.
What does 1916 or similar cost to build, say something with about 100kW or 135 hp at the flywheel? What sort of regular maintenance would be needed
and how long would the motor last before needing a rebuild?
Craig, looking at the results Jaks Subi daily driver did pretty well considering its a daily driver.
I'm going outside now to work on my air cooled bug, so that when its finished I can get my subi bug going.
Steve
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