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 VUU74L
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 02:44 PM |
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Superbug or L bug? Whats the difference?
I'm new to the beetle world. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a superbug and Lbug?
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annosL
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 02:56 PM |
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Probably the most obvious difference is the windscreen, super has the flattish screen and longer bonnet, L bug has a curved screen and shorter
pregnant looking bonnet and also a plastic dash with a binnacle style speedo housing. Super has the more traditional dash spruced up a bit but there
are more differences.
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68AutoBug
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 posted on November 8th, 2010 at 03:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VUU74L
I'm new to the beetle world. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a superbug and Lbug?
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HI
THE 1302S THE SUPERBUG HAS A FLAT LOOKING WINDSCREEN.
and a flat metal dash like a normal beetle..
LOOKS FLAT.. and the 1303s [L BUG] has the large curved windscreen and the dash isn't flat..
vents in front of windscreen are in the bonnet on a 1302s superbug
they are in the body in the 1303s [L BEETLE]
LEE
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waveman1500
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 04:18 PM |
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Yes, all of the things mentioned above are correct, plus there are many more differences. The L-bug's fenders are a different shape (more sharply
peaked) and they have the huge ugly 'elephant's foot' tail lights at the rear. They also have the larger triangular bumper-mounting holes in the
front fenders.
The S-bug is also called the 1302 (or 1302 S for the 1600cc, which is approximately similar to the version we got in Australia). These had the same
rear fenders as the 1500 Beetle, but with reversing lights added to the tail-light lenses via a clear section at the bottom.
The L-Bug is also called the 1303. Note the large tail-lights, the curved front windscreen and the shorter bonnet.
The additional interior space provided by pushing the windscreen forwards in a curve is used to accommodate a padded rubber/vinyl style dashboard like
a more modern car.
As opposed to the S-bug's more traditional vertical steel dash.
I believe that later versions had an in-between approach using a padded rubber cushion around the edge of the old-style metal dash, just before the
L-bug came in. Was this dash used in Super-beetles or only in the late beam-axle cars? Can anyone correct me on this?
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68AutoBug
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 posted on November 8th, 2010 at 05:21 PM |
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Hi
i BELIEVE THE PADDED FLAT DASH WAS ONLY ON THE 1976 non SUPER BEETLE..... IN AUSTRALIA...
IT COULD HAVE BEEN ON 1302s SUPERS IN OTHER COUNTRIES
A LOT OF BEETLES HAD THEM IN THE USA...
THE REAR WINDOW WAS LARGER IN THE 1302S & 1303S..
AND THE 1976 NON SUPER... last beetle sold in Australia..
After a while You will be able to tell the difference between the 1302S SUPERBUG with the bulging bonnet and normal NON super beetles..
ALL Supers had the IRS CV JOINT rear suspension [plus the 1976 non super and all semi automatics 1968-74]
cheers
LEE
My Beetle has the 1302s tail lamps with reversing lamps
and a 1976 engine lid.. [same as 1303S engine lid]
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 05:24 PM |
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ok so what is mine i always get confused or is mine just a 69 1500 now fitted with a 1600 twin port
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waveman1500
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 05:46 PM |
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Paul, your Rosie is a 1500, not a Superbug of any kind. The Superbugs have Macpherson strut suspension at the front, whereas yours has the torsion bar
beam axle. I love 1500s, I think they're possibly the best Beetle ever made, although I'm beginning to warm up to Supers now that I have one.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 06:00 PM |
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Thanks Waveman your not the first to suggest the 1500 is one of the best models ever made and I'm sure that up for discussion
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Joel
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 06:47 PM |
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Umm you're all missing the point, its a superbug regardless of the windscreen being flat or curved.
If its got struts its a superbug Period.
If its a 71-72 with the flat screen its a superbug S and if its the curved windscreen after 73 it's a Superbug L.
Its just the people who call superbug S "superbug" and Superbug L "Lbugs" or 1303 that cause the confusion, they were never called 1303 or 1302 in
australia.
Lee, the padded dash was on all flat screen beetles after december 72 as it was a saftey requirement, my mustard 12/72 super had a factory padded dash
as did both my 74 1300 bugs
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1303Steve
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 07:03 PM |
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Hi
A few errors here. The 71 super bug had the smaller rear window like 1500 bugs and they didn't have reverse lights, they started in 1972.
Only the 74 & 75 models had the triangle front bumper holes. The 74 had blinkers on the top of the mudguard, the 75 had them in the bumper like 76
bugs, the 75 used the 2 bolt bumper brackets like the 76 model.
The front suspension also varied, the 71-73 bugs had 3 bolt front struts, the 74 & 75 bugs had 2 bolt front struts, there is some crossover models
that had bits from earlier or later cars. later 74 & 75 bugs had the 3 point front seats.
Once I didn't like the elephants feet tail lights, they grew on me, they were also a safety feature.
The 1302 & 1303 model designation was used by VW, parts interpretors used a microfiche with the model designation 1302 & 1303, all other
Beetles used the model designation 1200 & 1300, so Lee you have 1300 Beetle (with M options) as far as parts go.
Steve
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waveman1500
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 07:26 PM |
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1303steve, I can certainly understand how you can learn to love the elephant's foot lights. When I first bought my S-bug I was a bit of a torsion-bar
purist and was really wishing that I had a front beam instead, but it's growing on me. The handling is good but the design is a bit fragile for my
liking and the way that the swaybar is used to locate the bottom of the strut is very silly. Some new bushes cured my superbug shimmy for a short
while and then it came back, but that is another story for another thread.
In terms of the elephant's foot lights, I actually quite like them on a German-look type car with these lenses:
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VUU74L
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 08:43 PM |
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Now I'm really confused. You all know so much about the different models. i will post some pictures when i get a chance. My bug has the L on the
back. It also has the padded dash, strut front and elephant foot lights (that I like). Does that make it a Super L? i spoke to someone today who said
super beetles only went up to 73?
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Craig S
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 08:54 PM |
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Then the person you were speaking to does not know what they speak of!!!!
The confusion is all around what they're called.
As noted above, the first and most obvious difference is the fact that they have strut front suspensions. All the other detail is comparatively
incidental. In some ways it would be easier if we just called them strut bugs.
In Europe they were called the 1302 (Strut bug with flat windscreen) and then the 1303 (strut bug with curved windscreen).
In Australia they were called the S bug (Strut bug with flat windscreen) and then the L Bug (strut bug with curved windscreen)
In the USA they were called SuperBeetles, although I don't know if there were name changes between the different models.
In Australia the S bug was sold from 71-72 as Joel said, and then they went to L Bug, until they stopped selling them in 1975(??). Cabriolet versions
continued to be sold in some countries until 1979(again my date my be wrong).
There are some good books around that can help with the detail (bearing in mind that they are probably a book from OS and the dates and names will
vary), and you can always visit:
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/forum/index.php?act=home
Craig
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
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VUU74L
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 09:03 PM |
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Not that it matters but is there any super beetle, or beetle for that matter, that is more sort after than others?
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Joel
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 09:10 PM |
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75Lbug with rack and pinion steering and the indicators inthe bumper is the most sort after when it comes to supers, standard bugs the 76 was the only
one that came with IRS and disc brake front with a manual gearbox
All other standards had the swingaxle rear except the semiauto 1500s
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waveman1500
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 09:16 PM |
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It depends what you're after. I believe that the 1975 L-bug had rack and pinion steering, so they are supposedly the best handling. Most people
consider Beetles to be better looking or more classic/collectable/desirable the older they are, particularly oval windows and earlier. 1967 is kind of
a changeover year for how many people think of Beetles, anything 1968-onwards has the vertical headlights and more modern features, so they're better
everyday cars in stock form but usually not considered real 'classics'. At the end of the day only the early stuff, pre-1958 really commands good
money in restored condition, so I suppose that you would call those the more 'desirable' cars.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 09:34 PM |
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It looks like Joel, Craig and Steve have just about covered it. To summarise, this is what was sold in Australia:
1968 - VW 1500 (torsion bar, discs)
1969 - VW 1500 (torsion bar, discs)
1970 - VW 1500 (torsion bar, discs)
1971 - VW 1300 (torsion bar, drums) AND VW 1600 Superbug S (strut, discs, flat screen)
1972 - VW 1300 (torsion bar, drums) AND VW 1600 Superbug S (strut, discs, flat screen)
1973 - VW 1300 (torsion bar, drums) AND VW 1600 Superbug L (strut, discs, curvy screen)
1974 - VW 1300 (torsion bar, drums) AND VW 1600 Superbug L (strut, discs, curvy screen)
1975 - VW 1300 (torsion bar, drums) AND VW 1600 Superbug L (strut, discs, curvy screen)
1976 - VW 1600 (torsion bar, discs)
It's become fashionable nowadays to use the European '1302' name for the Superbug S, and '1303' for the Superbug L, but those names weren't used
here, and bringing them up now is causing obvious confusion for new VW people. In Europe, the 1302 and 1303 came with a choice of 1300 or 1600cc
engines; the 1600 versions were the 1302S and 1303S, which are equivalent to what we got - we only got 1600cc engine in strut cars. 'L Bug' is just
a colloqual shortcut for 'Superbug L'. No one seems to say 'S-Bug' but it's just as valid by that logic. Yes in the USA they were both just
called the 'Super Beetle.'
VW Germany originally wanted to call the Superbug the '1301' but Peugeot had trademarked model numbers ending in '01'. So VW just used the next
number - 1302. Sensibly, VW Australia used the 'Superbug' name instead - it's far more logical.
BTW the Aussie '67 was not a 'changeover' model - you're thinking of the Euro/US '67. Aussie ones were the same as '62-'66 except for detail
changes.
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Joel
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 10:03 PM |
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Interestingly you could get a 1303/Lbug in europe with a 1200 40hp engine, known as a 1303A, what a slug
Ive seen one on thesamba from Italy, has no window trim, no vent decklid, elephants feet with no reverse lights and low back seats
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waveman1500
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 11:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper
BTW the Aussie '67 was not a 'changeover' model - you're thinking of the Euro/US '67. Aussie ones were the same as '62-'66 except for detail
changes.
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Sorry Phil, all I meant was that 1967 is the last of the early cars, with 6 volt electrics and so forth, hence the last of the 'classic'-type
Beetles. I suppose I should have said 1968, being that '68 was the model year for new stuff, but I was thinking in terms of counting backwards from
the 'modern' beetles back to the more collectable ones. Yes, my mind works in strange ways! :P
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68AutoBug
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 11:38 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
A few errors here. The 71 super bug had the smaller rear window like 1500 bugs and they didn't have reverse lights, they started in 1972.
Only the 74 & 75 models had the triangle front bumper holes. The 74 had blinkers on the top of the mudguard, the 75 had them in the bumper like 76
bugs, the 75 used the 2 bolt bumper brackets like the 76 model.
The front suspension also varied, the 71-73 bugs had 3 bolt front struts, the 74 & 75 bugs had 2 bolt front struts, there is some crossover models
that had bits from earlier or later cars. later 74 & 75 bugs had the 3 point front seats.
Once I didn't like the elephants feet tail lights, they grew on me, they were also a safety feature.
The 1302 & 1303 model designation was used by VW, parts interpretors used a microfiche with the model designation 1302 & 1303, all other
Beetles used the model designation 1200 & 1300, so Lee you have 1300 Beetle (with M options) as far as parts go.
Steve
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68AutoBug
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| posted on November 8th, 2010 at 11:40 PM |
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I also believe the GT Beetle in the UK could have a 1300 or 1600 engine...
LEE
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 08:46 AM |
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1600 only, wouldnt be a GT if it didnnt have the quickest engine availble
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 01:25 PM |
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And before anyone gets excited, by 'GT' it meant different trim and some flashy accessories, not any extra performance. It was mechanically the same
as a normal 1600 Beetle. Similar to the 'Formula Vee' Beetle you used to be able to buy here. Just a tarted up normal Beetle. Volkswagen never made
any 'performance' Beetles - although I have heard of special Brazilian and South African models?
Even the German 'Black and Yellow Racer' from 1973 was mechanically stock. It only had fancy paint, 5.5J 15 steel wheels with 175 tyres, and sports
seats and steering wheel.
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 01:43 PM |
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Depends which GT your talking about Phil, but the UK edition GT beetle had gearing changes to make it abit quicker than stock beetles
From memory it was a lighter swingaxle bug with a 1300 box but the diff from an Lbug so it had higher top speed
But I remember reading once about a GT Super that had reworked heads and twin carbs
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1303Steve
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 05:41 PM |
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Hi
A bit of info on the GT Beetle here http://www.gtbeetle.co.uk/id6.html
I know that VW didn't call them 1302 or 1303 in this market, but I still have the owners manual from my old 1302 and another 1303 I sold, both
Australian delivered cars with these in the glove box. Why didn't they call them S or L in that VW publication?
Steve
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 06:03 PM |
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I'd say Australia wouldn't have been a big enough market on it's own to reprint new manuals for so they just gave us the European manual which even
has everything as being LHD in it 
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 helbus
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 06:19 PM |
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Our 1971 Volkswagen S has the original manual with original Australian dealer stamp inside, and it is the 1302 manual pictured above. It is all LHD
pictures inside.
Our original '1971 Volkswagen S' or '1302' or '1971 Super Beetle' or 'Flat screen strut Bug' has original 1600TP engine, flat screen, flat
dash, lowback seats, reverse lights, Two sets of horizontal vents in engine lid.
It also has the crazy style unavailable one piece flow thru vents inside back window. I managed to get a replacement pair made from fibreglass from a
dude in Canada.
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Joel
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 06:44 PM |
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Your reverse lights arent original, they didnt start till the 72 model run, same time the big back window and 4 vent lid did.
THe non reverse light ones arent reproduced so everyone with a 68-71 bug has to settle for the reverse light style
95% of them havent even got globes inside
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helbus
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| posted on November 9th, 2010 at 07:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Your reverse lights arent original, they didnt start till the 72 model run, same time the big back window and 4 vent lid did.
THe non reverse light ones arent reproduced so everyone with a 68-71 bug has to settle for the reverse light style
95% of them havent even got globes inside
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Bingo. I went out and took off one of the lenses to look, and as you say, the base has no wire or globe holder in the bottom reverse section. OK so no
reverse lights on our Super, just replacement lenses with reverse section.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on November 10th, 2010 at 08:44 AM |
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Thanks Steve and Joel, it looks like the specs of the UK 'GT' Beetle are very similar to our '76 model.
Supplying Australian-sold VWs with German LHD manuals is nothing new. As Joel said, our market is so tiny that LNC Industries (VW Australia) would not
have been bothered to specially produce and print an Australian version for less than 10,000 annual sales.
Australian VWs were supplied with German owners manuals at least until 1965 - my '64 came with a German LHD one. I believe the Aussie '66-'67 1300s
had RHD Australian-produced ones - I have a couple of them. Likewise, Australian-specific VW brochures didn't begin until the early 1960s. Then
after '68 it was back to using German manuals for the CKD cars. My '95 Mk3 Golf has a German manual, although it is an 'English' edition with RHD
pictures. If you went to Barloworld this afternoon and looked in the glovebox of a brand-new Golf, do you think it would have an Australian-produced
owners' manual? Nope.
Does anyone have any information on whether the South African or Brazilian factories produced a 'high-spec' sports version of the Beetle for their
own markets? I don't have my reference books with me here.
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