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 aintgotitmusthaveit
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| posted on May 30th, 2011 at 10:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by baghall
Aahh, so your the buggar that beat me aintgotitmusthaveit.
Chris, I have got hold of a deloorto sidedraft from aintgotitmusthaveit, for the build. When i'm ready. Currently only looking at a single carb.
By the way guys anyone tell me about fitting up a porsche style cooling shroud. Particularly where the oil cooler goes.
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Ha! Sorry bud. Just thought I might need a spare....
Yep you lose the oil cooler as Matt suggested.
If you have access to a lathe and end mill i can give you a sketch of what I built for mine.
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baghall
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 09:52 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by aintgotitmusthaveit
| Quote: | Originally
posted by baghall
Aahh, so your the buggar that beat me aintgotitmusthaveit.
Chris, I have got hold of a deloorto sidedraft from aintgotitmusthaveit, for the build. When i'm ready. Currently only looking at a single carb.
By the way guys anyone tell me about fitting up a porsche style cooling shroud. Particularly where the oil cooler goes.
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Ha! Sorry bud. Just thought I might need a spare....
Yep you lose the oil cooler as Matt suggested.
If you have access to a lathe and end mill i can give you a sketch of what I built for mine.
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Yeah I do have access. That would be very helpfull. Thanks
I knew I would lose stock cooler but where does the cooler go instead? I was hoping it is possible to mount it behind the fan so it gets all the air
flow all the time.
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Joel
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 10:01 AM |
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There is ways to keep the stock cooler on a type1 with a Porsche shroud, just hardly anyone bothers and goes external.
Its lays down flat exactly like a type3 one but faces the other way across the case so it's straight behind the fan.
Dunno how well it woulda worked though, Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times without deflecting it further from 2
and 4 with an oil cooler.
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baghall
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 03:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times
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This doesn't sound good. Looks like it might need some creative thinking. I don't want overheating problems with boosting.
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Smiley
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 07:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times
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What about on a Type 4 motor?
Smiley 
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Joel
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 07:58 PM |
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Guess I should have worded that better, it's not all Porsche shrouds, but the vast majority lack the internal vanes that real Porsche ones do, so all
the air is thrown at #1 and #3 and very little gets to the crank pulley sides of #2 and #4 barrels and same deal with the heads.
Back in the late 90s a mate in bought a 72 Sbug fitted with a 2L type4 and an early fibreglass Porsche shrouds with no vanes inside and it toasted
several exhaust valves and 1 seat on #4 and 2.
Admittedly it was right up North QLD were it did get toasty summer but none the less a Porsche fan should cope better than a stock VW fan.
Although Rabys testing did find them performing below most upright type1 setups.
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vlad01
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 08:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Smiley
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times
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What about on a Type 4 motor?
Smiley
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sounds like a good idea to me.
+1 on the porsche shrouds. they are pretty appalling by any standard.
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Smiley
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 08:19 PM |
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So no one would recommend running a Porsche shroud?
What about all the people running them on Type 4s converted to uprights? Sorry for the the thread hijack Baghall, I'm just interested what people
have to say on this.
Smiley
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 matberry
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 09:55 PM |
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It's just the lack of the vanes, and they are on the alternator, other than that, build the engine right and no problem!!
Joel, how many std type IV's have had dropped valves, I'd say it's due to other factors more than the Porsche fan.
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baghall
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 10:21 PM |
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Don't mind the hijack smiley as am interested myself, cause I may have to try and fit an sc14 onto a type 1. So Mat is what you are saying is if
there were more vanes say, on the fan it is possible to get a porsche shroud working well?
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matberry
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| posted on May 31st, 2011 at 10:35 PM |
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The extra vanes are a part that gets forgotten, much like the thermostat flaps in an upright fan housing. The aftermarket kits just don't have them.
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baghall
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| posted on June 1st, 2011 at 01:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
The extra vanes are a part that gets forgotten, much like the thermostat flaps in an upright fan housing. The aftermarket kits just don't have them.
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Matt, I noticed in one of the AVWM, you sell an aftermarket kit does it have the vanes or would I need to design some for it. Also what would your
price be for it?
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matberry
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| posted on June 1st, 2011 at 10:07 PM |
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No sorry Bags, no ad from me, unless it was from last century  
I have used e few different kits, type 1 and type 4, I source them for the individual engine though.
I am presently looking for a type 1 kit if you hear of any.
I have an original set of Porsche vanes for my own use, had them for a while and yet to get inside my fan housing , they are some sort of plastic, not sure if they could get copied/moulded? May still be available
through Porsche.
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baghall
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| posted on June 1st, 2011 at 10:15 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
No sorry Bags, no ad from me, unless it was from last century
I have used e few different kits, type 1 and type 4, I source them for the individual engine though.
I am presently looking for a type 1 kit if you hear of any.
I have an original set of Porsche vanes for my own use, had them for a while and yet to get inside my fan housing , they are some sort of plastic, not sure if they could get copied/moulded? May still be available
through Porsche.
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Yeah sorry. I realised quite a bit later it was not your add. any chance you could either pm or load up some photos for me to look at. If they are
plastic it would probably be possible to make carbon fibre copies using vaccum moulding. Thanks for the info by the way.
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matberry
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| posted on June 1st, 2011 at 10:25 PM |
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I'll get a pic for you. Be hard to do in carbon in my expierence.
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baghall
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| posted on June 1st, 2011 at 11:15 PM |
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Hey smiley just had a thought that if an amr500 is too small on it's own then maybe I could go for 2 of them with fuel injection setup.
Thanks Matt. Have a mate who I have done some work with. If it can be done he has the skills and knowledge. He does a lot of work for race teams with
carbon, both body and engine. He's actually gonna help me do some carbon work on the rear fibreglass and am thinking about trying to do some of the
tinware as well. Maybe.
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Smiley
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| posted on June 2nd, 2011 at 06:24 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by baghall
Hey smiley just had a thought that if an amr500 is too small on it's own then maybe I could go for 2 of them with fuel injection setup.
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Good idea. But I just bought another SC12 off eBay! Now I have two! Just need to wait a few years now so I can afford the rest of the engine
Smiley
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baghall
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| posted on June 21st, 2011 at 04:52 PM |
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Hey Smiley, you still there. Was wondering if you know what the cfm is on an amr 500, since you had one on your car? Also what size pulleys were you
running and what boost were you getting?
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Joel
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| posted on June 21st, 2011 at 05:19 PM |
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They're 500cc hence the name so fair bit less than 1200cc SC12.
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Smiley
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| posted on June 21st, 2011 at 05:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by baghall
Hey Smiley, you still there. Was wondering if you know what the cfm is on an amr 500, since you had one on your car? Also what size pulleys were you
running and what boost were you getting?
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I really have no idea.
The blower was all set up on it when I bought it.
That was my first car and my first VW. I really didn't know much about anything back then, how's things change 
The guy who set it up believed that it was making in the area of 5-6psi. But it had no boost gauge so I can't confirm this.
I really wouldn't bother with that blower IMHO. Unless you were putting 2 of them on a 1200 engine.
I still have the blower and pulleys here. If you really really want to know I can dig them out and measure them. But I have to find them first
Smiley
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baghall
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| posted on June 21st, 2011 at 06:01 PM |
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No worries Smiley I'm sure I can get the info somewhere else, but look at at my build thread for latest update.
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Smiley
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| posted on June 21st, 2011 at 09:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by baghall
No worries Smiley I'm sure I can get the info somewhere else, but look at at my build thread for latest update.
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I saw. Very nice. I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes (obviously like a bat out of hell)
What size engine are you planning on building?
Smiley
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matberry
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| posted on June 21st, 2011 at 10:32 PM |
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Here's the pic's of the set of vanes I have, they are a hard grey plastic. Sorry it took so long
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Smiley
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| posted on June 22nd, 2011 at 04:39 PM |
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Hey Matt
Where do they bolt down to on the engine and which way up are they oriented?
Smiley
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11CAB
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| posted on June 22nd, 2011 at 05:11 PM |
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It bolts to the back of the Porsche Fan, its on the inside of the fan housing
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matberry
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| posted on June 22nd, 2011 at 05:48 PM |
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Yep, 11CAB's got it, they bolt to th back of the alternator on the face that it's sittting on.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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bajachris88
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| posted on June 22nd, 2011 at 06:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by baghall
Don't mind the hijack smiley as am interested myself, cause I may have to try and fit an sc14 onto a type 1.
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Its what i have in the pipe line too.
I got dual turbo prep carbs to go on either side. As for supercharger mounting, from what i can see there is nowhere else but where Joel mounted his
SC12.
The problem of the massive protrustion back (due to size, approx 120mm from memory) is just something i personally will have to over come.
The plan is a welded frame / housing that does two things:
1: house an idler shaft that displaces the torque back in line with the sc14 supercharger.
&
2: support the weight/load of the supercharger.
Mounting points:
- Threads on gen/alt stand, fuel pump studs, case studs, distributor hold down bolt, and i have a type 3 lower cradle bolt hole / thread (although
below crank pulley).
Bitch Factor for Fabrication: (out of 10)
12.5
But if it were made, then it would be an awesome result, and i plan to fab it up. I will need to take it to a machine shop though to machine out some
journals for some sealed bearings for the idler shaft for interference fit. [Matt are you able to do this?]
otherwise some existing idler arms (if out there) could be found in a wrecking yard, looking at mixed alternator setups etc. Even if a distributor
shaft and bearing housing could be used, if the distributor shaft was wide enough to take the torque load, maybe truck ones have beefier?
Its alot of work, but the result would last a life time. I just wish i had a TIG for aluminium or alloy. Unfortunately i'm going to have to fab it
with a MIG & arc welder, which means i'm only limited to steel. I'm going to have to be VERY cautious about weight.
btw, if anyone knows of any objects or machine components that consist of a decent torque shaft and two radial loaded bearings with hopefully steel
housings let me know  .
Chris.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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baghall
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| posted on June 22nd, 2011 at 10:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Here's the pic's of the set of vanes I have, they are a hard grey plastic. Sorry it took so long
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Yeah I thought you had forgotten or not bothered. Thanks.
I think it would be doable but would have to be made in a couple of components and then stuck together. Just noticed that they are made that way
already. Need glasses think I.
Am I right in assuming that the vanes are on the bottom when mounted and direct the air to the rear of the engine (pulley end).
68 Baja - It's a growing pain!
58 Baja ute - and the pain spreads!
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matberry
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| posted on June 22nd, 2011 at 10:16 PM |
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I had found it easiest using my phone to post pics, but it died recently and so took a while to get the camera happening.....
The vanes go to the top and sweep to the left, direcing air to #3.
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baghall
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| posted on June 22nd, 2011 at 10:19 PM |
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Ok Thanks Matt. I certainly had that wrong didn't I.
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