I have done a test drive of the car ('67 beetle with a 1916cc Fuel Injected motor and mild cam and counterweighted cranks in a dual relief case that has done only about 19k kms) I have just purchased the car and have a list of "issues" that I am slowly working my way through in order to make the car a great and reliable daily driver. The car was originally built by Stenguns and here is the thread (http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=64212&page=1). The car has an external oil cooler (280mm x 180mm x 40mm 24 row??? without a fan) connected to the oil pump and is located above the transmission.
I have attached a PDF of the data from the test run.
I have noticed the following:
1. The motor sits a little bit low in the engine bay that may be attriibuted to the engine mounts failing.
2. The tinware does not sit nicely.
3. The engine seal has not been installed correctly and does not seal properly.
4. I think that the fan shroud in not genuine and probably does not have the correct internals.
5. I think the internal cooler is still in place.
6. I am not sure if all of the tinware/direction bits and pieces are installed.
At this stage I have not taken the engine out but see the need for that to happen sooner rather than later.
I would like to confirm the following. Is this a true statement?
If the engine is in good condition and all of the tinware is correct and installed correctly and the engine seal is correct and installed correctly and I only had the internal oil cooler and no external cooler and had the standard pulleys then the oil temperature would be ok??? If I were to add an external oil cooler with a thermostatically controller fan that that would be even better?
Thanks again guys for your help with this...I have a feeling we are going to solve this issue quickly.
Regards
Greg
Lateral ·
Some more photos
vwo60 ·
I disagree with the statement that ther oil temp will be ok, with any modified engine if you increase the power output you will increase the heat generated, you will have to pay attention to all of the above, as i said in my previous post my engine is a 2276 with 10.8 to 1 without the boot propped open and i have no over heating issues in my ghia or early beetle, as Matt said there are some other issues that you have to look at, seal around the engine is one of them you will probably need to remove the engine and start again, i have a scat 36 HP shroud with a dog house cooler and it fits well after making it seal, i have the cooler, fan and thermostat contolled properly and this works very well for me, also my head temps are not high, i have calibrated the gauge to varify it reads correctly, i firmly believe that your temp gauge sender is not in the block as the heat from the engine gives you a false reading, I have done a lot of checking temps at different places on the block and they read conciderably higher than the oil entering the engine after it has been through the cooler, mine is in the return line after the oil thermostat.
Craig Torrens ·
Looks like you may have a power pulley, this will raise your temps by 10 deg.
I disagree with measuring the oil temps after the cooler, as this does not give a good indication as to what is happening with the motor. All you are measuring is how affective the cooler is, not how hot the motor's oil is getting........but each to the own👍
Lateral ·
Thanks guys for your input and thoughts.
I know that I need to fix the basic configuration of the tinware and seals to ensure that the basic cooling system is in place. I'll also find out where the sender for the oil temp gauge is located and let you know.
Craig, what is the diameter of the stock pulley? I measured mine at it is 6.75" diameter.....
Regards
Greg
matberry ·
Yep, I'd say thats a power pulley. Stock is around 7" in diameter
hellbugged ·
I just went through the old thread and yes it has a dog house oil cooler and the temp sender is in the type 3 oil fill block plate..........deep sump (hence the 5 litres of oil) and one of those in/out oil pump covers rather than a drilled and tapped case with closed pump(....hmmmmm 🙅)
.... And from the pics in the thread, I wouldnt lay down too much money on it being a power pulley.... What are the numbers on the fan belt?.... Also no definiative pics that it has the proper " exhaust" tinwear off the dog house cooler. Shove the camera down between the fan housing and firewall and post a pic or one from underneath at the clutch lever area to show this
There's not much lower temp to be found reguarding the rubber engine bay seal as pictured above
There is a credit list in the thread that mentions Dave Becker built the engine???
vwo60 ·
In the real world you could have a temp sender before and after the cooler so you can see the delta t across the cooler, having the sender after the cooler tells you if the cooler is effective other wise you have no idea what is actual oil temp being feed into the engine only what ever readings you are getting off the block, if you measure ther temp on the engine block it is totally inacurate as you are measuring the temp of the block not the oil temp, my measurments have shown me this, if you know the delta t across the cooler, you simply add this to the return oil temp and then you know the engine oil temp in the sump. the other issue that needs adressing is the accuacy of the gauge, this will need to be checked to confirm it's is acurate.
Lateral ·
Hi Guys
Dave Becker (Menangler) built the engine. I have contacted him and being more than 3 years ago his memory was pretty good. He said that it was a pretty "standard" type of build.
Daimo, I'll get some photos of the tinware today and post them. here is a photo of the fan belt information.
From my googling, I thought the standard pulley was 6 3/4"?
Regards
Greg
matberry ·
Dave can build a good engine so at least there's some comfort there. He no doubt sedt up C's and componrnt matched well. y the bbelt, seems I jumped on Craigs powerpulley band wagon a little too early....11x900 is most likely a std pulley.
As for temp gauges, any of them IMO are just indicative of what is normal and what is not. There are many variations for placement and brand of equipment. One component to the argument of before/after cooler is, the oil itself is what breaks down when subjected to high temps so it is handy to know the max temp that the oil sees, not just what temp it is as it enters your engine, but really, any reading, once the driver is used to what is 'normal', then they can recognise what is 'abnormal'.....hopefully.
hellbugged ·
Have you checked the timing ???
As per Mat's post, Dave would build a well sorted motor.
Personally I'm not a fan of those types of pump covers.... Do they proved full flow to the external cooler, or only a "shared" flow?
Craig Torrens ·
well its a standard pulley with that belt size....so you can tick that off the check list !
Lateral ·
I've got the car booked in for a Dyno check with guys that specialise in the Atom G4 ECU that the car is using. I want them to check all of the settings and see if there is any diagnostic information as cylinders 1 and 2 seem to be running rich and whilst the car is starting 100% better that it was since changing the battery and installing new transmission ground straps, I think it can still can do better.
Can you guys recommend/suggest any tuning settings for the car?
Regards
Greg
HappyDaze ·
What grade of oil are you running? After changing to a lighter grade, my oil temp. dropped to a reasonably safe level. Heavy oil tends to by-pass the cooler, and return to the sump, through the relief valve.
The other thing that helped greatly, although it means boring a couple of holes in the body🙄, is cold air intakes.
After making those two changes, oil temp has dropped by 20 deg. C.in my Beetle.
hellbugged ·
After a good check on the dyno relocating the oil cooler or adding tubes that direct air to it will help lots.
A bootlid prop from Craig Torrens also gets temps down near on 10 degrees.... If you don't want to prop the lid, add vents to the rear engine tin with fresh air tubes to provide more air into the engine bay.....
Yep keen to see pics if the tinwear is on the doghouse still
barls ·
i changed from a similar fan housing back to a modified sbug one on mine and dropped about 10-15 degrees. i believe al aka das did the same on the green bug that craig now owns for the same reason when it was running the t4
Craig Torrens ·
hellbugged wrote:Personally I'm not a fan of those types of pump covers.... Do they proved full flow to the external cooler, or only a "shared" flow?
They are full flow.
matberry ·
On a doghouse installation, the oil cooler exhaust tinware is very important too, and sealed properly.
As for tuning recommendations, most dyno tuners are used to water-pumpers and tend to aim too lean for what I believe to be correct for our aircooled cousins. There is the argument that they are all internal combustion piston engines, but a hot running air cooled engine will not produce power once overall engine temps are beyond normal. I aim for between 11 and 13.5:1 AFR, yes it's richer, but I believe the extra fuel is an important part of keeping out engines cool.
matberry ·
As for the in/out pump cover, I am NOT a fan, the internal oil galleriesin the pump are smaller than stock oil passages and therefore offer a restriction to oil volume. It is oil volume that cools the engine internals, another reason not to put heavy weight oil in your engine. Heavier grade oil will show better presure on your gauge, but will result in less oil volume to wash the temperature from your pistons, the primary source of internal temperature.
Lateral ·
I'm using Mobil Super 1000 20/50w.
ian.mezz ·
should go for a drive today 20deg out side and raining shouldn't run hot.
when its not raining and its a hot day, just take engine lid off go for a run and check temps , them u know if its air flow.
ian.mezz ·
Mobil Super 1000 20W-50 ???
Mobil Super 1000 20W-50 is a quality premium mineral motor oils designed to provide a high level of performance and protection under most operating conditions. This product has been engineered for today’s tougher engine specifications. It provides very good engine protection and extends engine life. Mobil Super 1000 20W-50 is suitable for use in both gasoline and diesel powered vehicles. It is ideally suited for less stressful driving conditions such as highway driving and lower consistent speed conditions.
I run a castrol oil .
stan pobjoy runs castrol egde 25/50 in his 1916 engines
Penrite have some good oil s.
Lateral ·
Hi Ian,
I was thinking of removing the engine lid off and going for a drive on a hot day to see if there is any difference.
I had an 1835cc engine some years ago and always ran Mobil 20w-50 and changed the oil every 2000kms. Are you saying that Mobil 20W-50 is not a suitable oil?
Regards
Greg
Lateral ·
Hi guys
Here are some photos of the tinware.
First photo is left hand side. You will see the coil/ignition device...I am assuming that this is not a good location as hot air will be escaping from the rear and blowing over this device due to the missing tinware? I am also 95% sure that the original cooler is still in place.
Regards
Greg
Lateral ·
Some more
I am assuming that the big sensor is the oil temp sensor for the ECU? and the smaller is for the VDO gauge?
Sides ·
Ahh, right - having the coil getting hot air dumped on it is one thing, but a BIG part of your problem is it's sitting where the exit duct from the doghouse goes that Daimo and Matt have both said.
The bit we're talking about is a rectangular duct that runs from the doghouse down and forwards out through the tin to dump near the clutch cable. It installed through the tin from the engine side, and bolts up to the fan shroud. Without that bit in there the air that's just passed through the oil cooler (and gotten heated up) is going to get sucked back through the system again, which is bad as obviously hot air doesn't do a great job of cooling things down.
Basically a complete tin setup you don't have any hot air dumping in the engine bay - it all gets vented below the engine with no way of getting back up and in, and the only air that can get sucked into the fan has to have come in from the vents below the rear window (or in the engine lid for later bugs).
So... really ya need to move the coil out of there and get the proper exit duct in there... that'd be good for at least 10 deg C of oil temp in my experience.
👍
Also how close are those exhaust pipes running to the head... in the pics look almost like might be touching ???
HappyDaze ·
Sides has hit it ^. That little duct is a bugger to fit, but MUST be there.
Try to eliminate air-gaps in the tin ware, wherever possible.
Lateral ·
Thanks guys
Yeah, I had a bad feeling about the missing tinware...😠
I have attached a photo of the missing pieces you mention...is it # 3 in the photo?
Regarding the exhaust pipes near the head...I just checked and I can put my finger between the gap. My aim is to install a ceramic coated exhaust setup that I hope will reduce the external temps of all of the exhaust etc pipes.
I think things are looking like I need to simply get a complete set of genuine tinware and refit everything and relocate the ignition system as the engine will need to be removed, I assume that it will be a good time to fit an electric fan to the external oil cooler and kill a few birds with one stone.
CIP1 have what they describe as OE Genuine VW (www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-198-100). Is there anybody in Australia that I can get a complete genuine set of tinware from that has all of the correct bits and directional internal vanes????
I really appreciate all of the help you guys are providing.
Regards
Greg
ian.mezz ·
cars not normally have oil temp sensor for the ECU.????
.
and you also need the 1600 tinware that goes along the back of motor. the vent sits init to push the air out the bottom.
.
you could mount coil on fire wall.
i still think youll have to open lid a bit to let extra air in.
Lateral ·
Oh, and I just checked the timing and it's set at 25 degrees.
Bizarre ·
25 degrees full advance?
Seems short for my 2 c
Would have thought it needs at least another 5
Lateral ·
so what would that big sensor be for???
sander288 ·
25 deg? All in?
Normally somewhere between 28-32 deg ALL in is ideal for type 1 engines. I have mine set at 29.5 once fully advanced.
Lateral ·
So what should the timing be set at for a streetable driver?
hellbugged ·
😵.....yep those are the pics i was after.
Figured it wasnt there from your temp PDF believe it or not, just wanted confirmation.
Fix that and you'll be fine I suspect.
Bizarre ·
A degree before it pings
I would go to 30 for starters
Lateral ·
Just to confirm that I did NOT unplug the vacuum hose from the ECU...should I have?
Sides ·
Lateral wrote:I have attached a photo of the missing pieces you mention...is it # 3 in the photo?
Yep - that's the bit we're talkin about. Like Daimo says, the constantly rising temps were a bit of a giveaway.
I wouldn't go searching for new tinware just yet - that single missing piece is likely to be your main problem.
👍
Timing at 30'ish degrees at 3500 rpm with steady throttle is what you want... vacuum to the ECU shouldn't make a big difference since on steady throttle.
In fact suspect if you disconnect that you won't be able to get 3000 rp - can't see a TPS (throttle sensor) in the pics of the throttle body so suspect it's tuned on MAP, so no vacuum line == no throttle.
😎
What's the link to the build thread ?
hellbugged ·
ian.mezz wrote:cars not normally have oil temp sensor for the ECU.????
.
and you also need the 1600 tinware that goes along the back of motor. the vent sits init to push the air out the bottom.
.
you could mount coil on fire wall.
i still think youll have to open lid a bit to let extra air in.
Yes but water pumpers have stacks of water to take temps from for the ECU to work from Ian 🤪
In pics from build thread it is the correct rear seal tin with cut out painted up ready to go
Yep coil has to be evicted........
Such a shame such a flashy car has ended up ignoring very basic VW principles........the previous owner that had nothing but dissapointment could have had a reliable fun car
ian.mezz ·
hellbugged wrote:
ian.mezz wrote:cars not normally have oil temp sensor for the ECU.????
.
and you also need the 1600 tinware that goes along the back of motor. the vent sits init to push the air out the bottom.
.
you could mount coil on fire wall.
i still think youll have to open lid a bit to let extra air in.
Yes but water pumpers have stacks of water to take temps from for the ECU to work from Ian 🤪
In pics from build thread it is the correct rear seal tin with cut out painted up ready to go
Yeah, I think the original aim of the car was to build a show car but I may be wrong.
My aim is to fix things so that it can be used as a daily driver and driven from here to Melbourne without any stress if needed.
Dave, my plan is to go to the Dyno first and get everything checked and then pull the engine out and refit everything and any missing pieces.
Who is the best place to go for some good tinware?
hellbugged ·
Dyno at custom bug and buses in penrith !
Best to get original tinwear and clean/ paint it up. Try vintage vee dub. As per "SIDES" that one piece will make all the difference and can be fitted with motor in situ provided you can get the coil out of the way first.
For me I would do that then head to CBB to see how the tune comes up......you may well find the motor wont need to come out after all.
PLEASE PLEASE keep us informed of how this pans out, nice to hear the end results
Sides ·
Yup - very hard to beat original tinware.
👍
Also one of your pics looks like maybe an exhaust leak on #4 cylinder ??? Worth checking and fixing before ya dyno...
matberry ·
If it's the ECU termp sender (which it looks likely to me) it would work better being relocated to the head at the top of the rocker area. The sump is a much larger heat sink so doesn't match the temp of the heads quick enough.
Show us a pic of the engine lid and air vents. My feeling is you may not have enough air available. Also I don't like the exhaust heating the tappet cover/head. Ceramic coating it will help a lot, but it would be better with more clearance and/or some sort of heat shield.
Lateral ·
Thanks guys, 30 degrees it is!
Yeah, I think the original aim of the car was to build a show car but I may be wrong.
My aim is to fix things so that it can be used as a daily driver and driven from here to Melbourne without any stress if needed.
Dave, my plan is to go to the Dyno first and get everything checked and then pull the engine out and refit everything and any missing pieces.
Who is the best place to go for some good tinware?
Craig Torrens ·
Greg, why not fix everything first and then go to the dyno ? Apart from the high temps (which is now an obvious tinware issue) is the motor running ok ?
Dyno time is expensive and will put load and stress on your motor, so IMO its best to get all the other things sorted first so you don't have any probs while dynoing.
Lateral ·
Hi Dave
Which photo makes you think that there is an exhaust leak on # 4?? Can you repost the photo and point out the problem area???
Matt, there is already a sensor located at near cylinder # 1 as per the attached photo.
Regarding the exhaust, I am in 2 minds as to what to do...either fix it up (tidy the welding, tail pipes and ceramic coating) or simply replace it with a completely new already ceramic coated exhaust). I'll do some $$$ calculations and see what comes out of it......what do you guys think?
I think regardless of what I decide, the engine needs to come out so that all of the tinware can be properly fitted and any other hidden issues resolved.
Craig, I agree with what you are suggesting but my idea for going to the dyno first is to have them simply check over the entire system including wiring, sensors and settings etc and to provide me with some education at the same time as I they are happy to have me looking over their shoulder when they are working on the car. I'm also going to be speaking with them as to what additional sensors they might recommend (eg: oxygen sensors). I'm not going to the dyno so that they can thrash the crap out of the car.
I think by the time I take the car to the dyno, I'll have sorted out where to get the additional tinware and figured out how to install it etc. In addition, I would have decided what to do about the exhaust.....can anybody recommend a good exhaust guy in Sydney and a company who can ceramic coat it? Or can you guys recommend a good new exhaust with a good quiet note?
It's looking like dropping the engine out and fixing everything including any hardware changes recommended for the EFI system all at the same time is the best way to go. I'm also thinking of removing the external oil cooler from the system but leaving the piping so that I can see if just the original oil cooler can handle things and then connect the external cooler to see if the temperature drops further...a little bit of R & D (Research and Development) 😂
Daimo, I will definite keep this thread updated with what's going on....
Regards
Greg
Bizarre ·
What exhaust have you got on there now??
It use to have the stainless OEM VW header type that was like stock
They are actually not bad.
as a mild 1916 I reckon you need a 1 3/8" one - reckon you are better off with the base Vintage Speed
If it is a daily - conside putting heater boxes back in for winter.
BTW
Could you relocate that coil pack?
I know you dont change leads that often - but I reckon you would need to pull the motor to get those ones out
Sides ·
Lateral wrote:Hi Dave
Which photo makes you think that there is an exhaust leak on # 4?? Can you repost the photo and point out the problem area???
Sure thing - inside the red circle below looks like soot perhaps ???
Often stuff like that is the first sign of an exhaust leak, and leaking where the header bolts onto #4 leaving soot on the tinware is a pretty common thing really...
Lateral ·
Hi Dave
I just checked the tinware and there's no soot mate....I think it was a shadow/reflection when I took the photo. When I got the car before xmas, the engine bay was pretty dirty so I gave it a good clean.
Bizarre, I don't know what brand/name/type the current exhaust is but it is stainless steel. The pipes are 40mm (external diameter) and the tail pipes are 47mm (external diameter). Whils the exhaust is in good condition, it needs some attention especially if I am getting it ceramic coated. For example, the mufflers are tilted so that you can't remove the rocker covers! and some of the welds need to be tidied up. I have attached a few photos.
Regarding the heater boxes, whilst it will be a daily driver I have other cars that are more "daily drivers" than this car will be . This car will be a "special" daily driver and I won't really need to have any heater boxes or heater functionality in the car.
Also, I will need to relocate the coil as it is sitting right where the missing tinware should be! More than likely I will mount it on the firewall.....
Regards
Greg
hellbugged ·
If you're going to coat that exhaust it would be sensible to "flange" the j pipes to the rest of the system before coating
Doesn't look too bad of a set up
Prolly similar $$ to coating to just get a vintage speed system which would be a better performing set up
1303Steve ·
Hi Greg
It looks like a few non VW mechanics have had a go at this car.
I came a cross a 1600 Kombi once with no tinware, just the generator sitting on the pedestal, needless to say he had vapour lock and was sent home on a tow truck.
Does anybody is Australia sell the Vintage Speed range? How good are these exhausts and do you know anybody that runs these?
Do you know if the exhaust tips extend out far enough to clear the rear bumper? (This is because my existing exhaust apparently didn't and somebody "tacked" on some extensions.)
Regardless of what exhaust I run, I will still need to have it ceramic coated as the car still has the original rear apron/beaver panel and the existing exhaust has been wrapped in some foil like insulation to reduce the amount of "burning" discolouration of the paint.
Your almost correct Steve!, the previous owner used a few VW specialist/expert mechanics over the years....I'll tell you a few stories when we eventually catch up for that coffee.🙁
I'm also starting to think that the once the engine is out, it will be a perfect time to have somebody pull it down, check it and then put it all back together again so that I know that it is all ok in side.....
Regards
Greg
Bizarre ·
Vintage Vee Dub Supplies at Campsie sell them
Lateral ·
Thanks Bizarre
sander288 ·
If you think the tips on the vintage speed are too short I know the company does make adjustments for customers quite often sometimes without expense
Lateral ·
Hi Sander288
Do you mean that Vintage Speed will make the adjustment or Vintage Vee Dub Supplies??
Regards
Greg
Lateral ·
Next question, 38mm or 42mm Header?
Regards
Greg
vwo60 ·
Just a quick question, have you proven that the gauge in your car is acurate, as stated the autometer temp gauge that i have tested was 25 degrees out, you need to calibrate the gauge to determine if it is acurate as this makes every thing else an unknown.
sander288 ·
VS will alter it for you and VVDS will import it for you. The price is better going through vintage than ordering direct. But get a quote.
I'd talk to VVDS about what size header is suitable for your engine
ian.mezz ·
the tinware not really that bad from the looks of it.
Its just because your got a 1600 in a 1200 place.
the early seal with the two flaps is a bit tricky to fit the 1600 tinware , but long as its there it looks OK.
once you put that back ducking on and open the engine lid to let some extra air in she be sweet.
I wouldn't pull the motor down , I would just check the compression.
.
Yep, the temp gauge has been tested but not calibrated. There was also an issue with there not being a transmission earth strap and that can apparently cause a problem with accuracy. Are you suggesting to place it in hot water and check the gauge?
Regards
Greg
Bizarre ·
Lateral wrote:Next question, 38mm or 42mm Header?
Regards
Greg
Greg
You will get a lot of different answers - but it is good you are asking as you can make up your own mind from the different info
1 3/8" is 35mm and 1 1/2" is 38
"my opinion" is 1 3/8" is good for probably 90hp
I have seen a 95 true rear wheel HP with the same exhaust as mine
JC from AC Net says - "a decent guideline is to run 1 3/8" for up to 90hp, 1 1/2" from 90-140hp, and 1 5/8" from 140-175hp"
I would be surprised if yours is doing more than 80HP
no extra vents for the bigger doghouse fan and the oil cooler shute
Lateral ·
Thanks Bizarre,
I'll have a read. As I'll be at the dyno next Monday, it'll be interesting to see the statistics.
Hi Matt,
Yeah, I am sure that you are correct. At this stage I am aiming to attempt to get a good starting point by correctly fitting ALL of the required tinware and getting the tuning right so that I can then see what temperatures the motor is running under those circumstances. Once I have that done, then I have a good baseline from which to gauge how anything I might do or add to the car such as an external oil cooler or vents affects that baseline.
Regards
Greg
HappyDaze ·
Matt is right, ^ extra [COOL] air is a must.
At high RPM, the engine and the cooling fan are 'fighting' over the available cool air.....the engine, being positive displacement, will most likely WIN.👍
ian.mezz ·
I recon 65HP.
matberry ·
Do what you like Greg, but each minute that the engine is running with the decklid shut is doing premature engine damage. VW increased the air vent size when they put in the big fan. Your pistons and cylinders are overheating which eventually shows with increased oil temps.
hellbugged ·
More air, simple job.......invest in one of these before even driving it to the dyno with that lack of oil cooler tinwear at the moment
it is really a matter of opinion with the vents, my 60 model beetle has all the tin and seals, no extra vents, a 2054, 8.5 to 1, big valve heads, 44 idf's, 1 5/8 exhaust, both cylinder head and oil temps are good and never over heats, oil temp never goes over 100 degrees and the head temps rearly see 150 degrees, this engine does not run a doghouse cooler only a external one dirrectly in the air flow at the front of the car, same on my ghia, 2275, engle fk87, runs 10.8 to 1, oil temps are great and the head temp has never seen over 150 degrees also. yes i suggest you check the gauges acuracy as it seams that the whole thread swings on wheater it is correct, as i said a new auto meter gauge was out 25 degrees.
matberry ·
Shayne, you said your '60 has no dog house cooler, so one would suggest it has a narrow fan that matches the non-dog-house style fan housing that makes it ok with standard early vents. And your Ghia has a Ghia deck-lid with larger designed vents. I don't believe it's just opinion based. I still believe there re many inacurate gauges out there, no question, but oil temps are so far 'down-the-line' from the actual problem IMO.
hellbugged ·
vwo60 wrote:yes i suggest you check the gauges acuracy as it seams that the whole thread swings on wheater it is correct.
It is missing dog house tinwear.
If the original post said "Hey, my engine is missing vital pieces of tinwear and I have NO GUAGE to check.....should I worry about engine temperature???"
Could we all hold hands and give a unanimous YES then?
😎
Craig Torrens ·
vwo60 wrote:with any modified engine if you increase the power output you will increase the heat generated,
A true statement.
VW engineers increased the vent size on not only the engine lid, but also the vents below the rear window as the factory motor's HP increased. To make the statement that extra vents are 'a matter of opinion' clearly shows that someone may need to revisit the evolution of the cooling to the vw motor. 😎
Regardless of gauge accuracy (and no the whole thread doesn't swing on this issue), this car and motor will greatly benefit from correctly installed tinware and INCREASED airflow in and out of the engine bay........its a no brainer😎
matberry ·
You have to use the L-O-U-D pedal to make power....... which ultimately makes heat. (but we digress, this is not the question at hand....do we need air for our air-cooled engines.....heck yeah!)
Lateral ·
Hi guys
This issue has generated some spirted discussion which is great!
Just to clarify, I am not currently driving the car around as I am spending a lot of time on researching a number of issues. The trip to the dyno is NOT to have the car thrashed but to speak with experts on EFI and the ATOM G4 ECU that the car has installed with the view of them testing things such as the Injectors, sensors, timing etc and telling me if they think that I should have any additional sensors installed such as an Oxygen Sensor or make any mods to the system. When the car is on the dyno, the engine lid will be removed (I installed a set of quick release pins) so that any cooling fans can be placed correctly.
I understand and agree with the fact that there probably needs to be some more air brought into the engine bay. I have contacted Craig via PM to get a hold of his standoff. I will also "test" the temp sender to ensure that it is calibrated correctly. I am very keen to see how the various changes affect the oil temp so that is why I am doing things in stages.
Thanks again guys for the great input!
Regards
Greg
Craig Torrens ·
No pm at my end 🙁
Lateral ·
Hi CRaig,
I just sent another PM and photo. I checked and it is in my outbox...the first PM did not appear in the Outbox for some reason.
Regards
Greg
vwo60 ·
Only make one change at a time so you can document its affect.
matberry ·
So Shayne, what fan is in your '60?
Lateral ·
That's the plan VWo60!
vwo60 ·
As you make each change to the engine, ie, install the oil cooler tin, do the test you have been doing on your spread sheet and record the resalts, ie go to the dyno, do the same road test after and record the resalt, this way you can see clearly the improvment that are occuring, if there are no improvemnets with the changes you can prove that, i am not saying that there will not be the improvements, this just lets you confirm what is happening, i do this all the time in my job aboard the floating oil processing ship, fault find on a lot of complicated equipment, all recorded so you can work out what has made the improvement so you can keep looking in that direction, my 2054 has the wide fan fitted to the engine Matt. i still suggest that you test the gauge to detremine the base line, if it is out you can add or subtract the difference to give you the accurate reading.
ian.mezz ·
Its not to hard,😊
people have been modding vw for
the past 60 years , Its all been done before.😂
correct tinware, etc etc ,hoodjaks , boot stand offs, extra holes in lid.
Lateral ·
I agree guys.
69bug ·
I have one of the boot props at the bottom that I bought of somebody on here,
Great product as my 69 has no holes or vents in the deck lid and it works amazingly
Craig Torrens ·
69bug wrote:I have one of the boot props at the bottom that I bought of somebody on here,
Great product as my 69 has no holes or vents in the deck lid and it works amazingly
You bought one from me, and I'm glad you're happy with it (Although I knew you would be !)
mactaylor ·
Craig Torrens wrote:
69bug wrote:I have one of the boot props at the bottom that I bought of somebody on here,
Great product as my 69 has no holes or vents in the deck lid and it works amazingly
You bought one from me, and I'm glad you're happy with it (Although I knew you would be !)
modest too!😘
Craig Torrens ·
😉...I am when I know it works 🙂
mactaylor ·
just stirring!
Lateral ·
Hi Guys
Ok, here is the latest update.
I took the car to Advan Performance at Auburn (http://www.advanperformance.com.au/) and spent a couple of hours with Peter (the boss) simply going over the existing setup and checking to see which sensor was what, where it was located and was it working etc. We didn't need to go onto the Dyno.
We confirmed that the car has a TPS (located), Coolant Temp Sensor (reading from the Oil)(located), Air Temp Sensor (located) and MAPS (located). There is what appears to be a sensor located in the tinware about Cylinder # 1 that does not seem to be connected to the ECU so I will need to investigate this when I remove the engine.
Peter was great and found a number of "issues" with the configuration of the ECU....don't ask me what he found as my head is still spinning around 😂
He also said that the system has everything that is needed to correctly configure the ECU so that it will become a great and reliable driver.
He suggested that I have the Injectors "flowed" to make sure that they are all doing what they are supposed to be doing.
My plan is to pull the engine, check all of the tinware, disassemble the engine and have it checked and put back together, purchase any new tinware that I need and refit it so that it fits 100%, fit a fan and a thermostat switch in line to the existing external oil cooler and configure it so that it is not used when the motor is initially reinstalled but can be simply reinstated should it be required, figure out the best location for an oil filter and install, new clutch plate etc, remove and tidy up the existing exhaust (flange J pipes, check for leaks etc and ceramic coat) and address any other bits and pieces that may crop up.
Do you guys have any comments or suggestions?
Oh, Peter suggested that I ask you guys to see if anybody had a "Ignition Table" that we could use for the initial setup?
Regards
Greg
Lateral ·
Ok, here is the latest update.
I just pulled the engine out of the car and it came out surprisingly well...now I have a millions pieces across the garage 🙂 ....seriously, I labeled and "zip locked bagged" as much as possible.
I have stripped off all of the tinware which wasn't hard as every single tinware screw was either loose or was finger tight with a number of them missing altogether!
I think I will start another thread on what happens from here in.