I thought I would share this build with those who may be interested, its a mates engine we are building for a Manxter
CB super race case 3.5mm deck
CB 82mm crank 8 dowel
CB 5.5 H beams
AA lightweight flywheel
AA 92mm thick walls
DRD hand oval ports 58cc 42x37 0.020" step
1.25 rockers
FK43 108 L/C straight up heli gears
CB Ultralight lifters
CroMo studs and push rods
CB Throttle bodies
Microtech ECU
Twin IHI VF14 turbochargers with custom intake and exhaust.
The mock assembly with above combination netted 0.003" deck, with 0.020" in the head I will be installing 0.060" copper head gasket from CB
CR is 8.57 static 6.58 dynamic with plans of running 8psi boost.
more coming soon.
cnfabo 路
Engine porn 馃檪 can't wait for more. How are going to keep the front wheels on the ground!!!!
matberry 路
Cool Fish, keep it up. Turbo 2180 should wake up a few Subi buggies.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
2180 with out a turbo would do that lol
Looks good mate!!
fish26 路
thanks guys, we are hoping for 200 HP at the wheels on 8psi soft tune and 98 pump, ultimately reach 250 HP on E85 with bigger injectors and more boost.
Once we get the engine installed Westi will be fabbing the intercoolers and relevant piping, I'd like to see twin coolers behind the Manxter side pods.
grogy 路
no thrills for the cautious
westi 路
i got some fuel you should try.it's not meth.102oct.
fish26 路
mate I'd love to, we can talk when I come past
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
Troys old engine configuration made 248hp atw on 18psi from memory. 2332 with t3/4 turbo, welded volksy heads and unknown cam grind which he got with engine originally from speedway car. Waste gate spring wouldn't hold any more boost and injectors were running 100% duty cycle so needed to be bigger. They were modified rb26 dett skyline injectors. Now with comp eliminators, gt42r and methanol power should be a bit higher lol
fish26 路
I would expect Troy's new engine configuration with that big ass turbo to easily make 350+
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
We will see how it goes!! He plans to have it ready for Warwick. Mighten be painted and pretty but track ready.
dangerous 路
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Troys old engine configuration made 248hp atw on 18psi from memory. 2332 with t3/4 turbo, welded volksy heads and unknown cam grind which he got with engine originally from speedway car. Waste gate spring wouldn't hold any more boost and injectors were running 100% duty cycle so needed to be bigger. They were modified rb26 dett skyline injectors. Now with comp eliminators, gt42r and methanol power should be a bit higher lol
Even your memory talks things up!
Better check those numbers before using your memory.
With troy's head flow it would need over 30-intercooled-psi to make 350 at the wheels.
300 is a fair start position if he can keep the flywheel on it.
fish26 路
lol i think we all exaggerate ever so slightly in the hope of getting there in the end
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
dangerous wrote:
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:Troys old engine configuration made 248hp atw on 18psi from memory. 2332 with t3/4 turbo, welded volksy heads and unknown cam grind which he got with engine originally from speedway car. Waste gate spring wouldn't hold any more boost and injectors were running 100% duty cycle so needed to be bigger. They were modified rb26 dett skyline injectors. Now with comp eliminators, gt42r and methanol power should be a bit higher lol
Even your memory talks things up!
Better check those numbers before using your memory.
With troy's head flow it would need over 30-intercooled-psi to make 350 at the wheels.
300 is a fair start position if he can keep the flywheel on it.
I said it made 248hp atw not 350 dude. Thats the figures that troy has told me so im guessing he would know lol. could be telling porkies hahaha.As for new combo who knows what it will do? But it definately has to make more than original set up wouldn't you think Dave? Bigger and better heads on methanol with better pipes and manifolds it has to breathe better than what it did have..
dangerous 路
To clarify, my notes say Troys old engine(vw heads) made 227hp, and as much as 233 danger lean on 18psi.
a long way from 248.
My head flow comment WAS refering to his new heads/ engine.
Yes it should make more, but a wild guess is all you are making until it is running.
Sorry for the hijack, back to your regular programming....
vassy66T1 路
Where's the like button??
hellbugged 路
vassy66T1 wrote:Where's the like button??
For the engine or the T.K.O ?
馃槀
vassy66T1 路
hellbugged wrote:
vassy66T1 wrote:Where's the like button??
For the engine or the T.K.O ?
馃槀
You"re onto it mate 馃槝
fish26 路
both I hope
vassy66T1 路
Yeh both 馃憤馃憤馃憤
typethreeking 路
I love all this talk about my car and I haven't even said anything!!!!!馃槀
fish26 路
Yeah Troy, just get it on the dyno already.......
Another head to choose from after a slight massage
turboboy 路
Check around where the oil pickup tube goes to it the block.
Mine was cracked and required welding
fish26 路
thanks mate, always best to double check twice...........not a lot of progress made hopefully will get the copper head gaskets and other goodies from CB before the weekend.
Anyone else have issues with AA cromo flywheel mating to the CB crank?
debiasi4 路
Those AA flywheels are not very good on the clutch surface. Found it was not very grippy surface and glazed up easily.even when resurfaced. I ended up going back to lightened vw flywheels on anything that made decent power
Cheers Adam
matberry 路
^^ me too, the AA flywheels aren't a patch on old German VW. I know one of Australia's best clutch specialist that has offered to buy any old VW flytwheels to use the clutch surface material in his custom alloy flywheels. It is in his opinion the best material he has ever experienced in his 40+ years of building clutches.
Recently I chucked a new replacement in the bin due to the flywheel mating surface being so poorly finished, it appeared it would have damaged the crank quick smart.
German all the way for me too.
westi 路
not me ,but someone i know,didn't actually mate properly.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
I've run a lightened VW flywheel for years and never ever had a problem. Yanks are very anti lightening flywheels especially when it comes to kombi's. my uncle has lightened a lot of VW flywheels over the years and he loves the quality of the steel they are made of.
fish26 路
will sort out the flywheel issue later, I've just been messing around with setting rocker/valve geometry....I hate doing this,
find full lift 0.383
half it 0.1915
mark half lift
install adjustable pushrod and rockers
set rocker parallel to head, adjuster inline with pushrod, rocker tip 90* to valve stem
I'm close but not perfect, seems rocker stand needs a trim or thinner lash cap
Also got the 0.060" copper head gaskets checked out, now get this rocker geometry right.
Craig Torrens 路
its all the time consuming stuff....i hate it too !
hellbugged 路
Might need to relocate the rocker studs down the stands 馃檨
fish26 路
Yeah that was my initial thought, arms look a touch too long even though the sweep motion of the rocker is correct without any shims under the pad. Next is to find correct offset rocker shafts instead of relocating the studs.
happy with lift and duration for the turbo considering light lifters, Aluminium case with stronger lifter bores, should be a long lasting valve train when i get the geometry right.
hellbugged 路
It looks like the contact on the lash cap is on the portion?
Am i correct assuming this is your concern?
fish26 路
Daimo, where did you get the taller lash caps from, it may solve my issue?
Here's the contact swipe on the lash cap, it will work but its not perfect also the rocker pad seems to have a slight divot where the ink has been skipped.
I thought I'd try the master rockers......Berg 1.4 or so I thought, is there a possibility they could be 1.25 as thats what they measure out to be, only got 0.477" lift
Also I might machine the bottom of the rocker stand pads instead of the heads, has anyone done this before?
thanks for looking
hellbugged 路
Yeah the bergs smallest rocker was 1.4, they should be marked on the arm, under the cup end of the adjuster screw. P.S those adjusters in yours are not BERG ones.........how and where are you measuring the lift and with what push rod, springs?
Yes been quietly thinking you might need thicker lash caps rather than thinner. The berg ones made for titanium valves are the thickest i could find.....there is a set on the samba at the moment, i think i have a spare set you could try (somewhere 馃檮)
I think EVERYTHING from case halves to head studs needs to be tensioned down before you will get accurate numbers to use for spring heights.
Try the spacers and other tricks before commiting to machining, even just to confirm that's what is needed.
I remember getting my mind in a mess thinking a change in one direction would be the effect i was after only to find the opposite results
Thanks mate I'm not surprised you would have Berg parts lying around and your build in inspiring.
The Berg rockers I tried on just to see if the geometry changes, they are marked with #1 on the bottom, I also found it strange they measured out as 1.25 when Gene was advocate against them but I may have miscalculated in my delirium of valve train numbers.
Above pics are Empi and Bergs together, lift measured with adjustable pushrod and outer spring only as I've always done and usually inner spring does not make a difference, but I may as well try ; )
matberry 路
I've machined the stand before to rectify geometery, worked a treat.
hellbugged 路
Yeah adjustable pushrods will give funky numbers.... It will change depending on which part of the foot is in contact too. I was lucky to find a set from the spares that were the correct length to measure lift during build up
I'd like to see both barrels under the head as well.
Dial indicator on retainer to measure with no lash? or off the cam card
Vicious cycle on which comes first," chicken or egg", at this stage of build hey
matberry 路
Also how are you getting those numbers? ie are you measuring full lift at the valve and then finding 1/2 lift, or are you working on cam spec.?
Personally I'm sus on the rockers, Empi and 1.25....two things I tend to avoid.
fish26 路
both, first I measure lift @ cam without rockers installed and find half lift @ cam, lock crank, install rockers and adjust the pushrod to get inline, I then double check minimum, half and full lift at the valve, note pushrod length then double check half lift marked on pulley with another set of rockers.
It will work the way it sits now but its not ideal so I'm getting a set of 3mm lash caps to save machining the pedestal.
The amounts that vary with the adjustable pushrod are negligible as I'm getting roughly the same geometry with a number of ratio rockers, seems the problem is in the heads, short valve stems/too high pedestals.
Anyone got a good set of 1.4 rockers they can part with?
cheers
dangerous 路
How is the progress going?
The geometry problem you have is quite common with heads that have larger seats fitted,
and the tip height being lower than original VW.
The same problem is also a cause of not enough room to coil bind.
There is something also a bit suspect about those rockers only measuring 1.25.
It may just be because of the bogus geometry,
but nearly all berg rockers I have used measure a lot more than the advertised ratio.
humpty 路
And posting this sort of stuff is exceedingly helpful to others.... Please keep the posts coming.
fish26 路
No real progress guys, it seems the only way to get "correct" geometry is to use the Pauter Rockers because of the shorter arm length. I still think a set of 1.25 is the way to go as the heads will not flow enough to take full advantage of the extra lift @ 1.4.
I will keep posting and sharing info and glad if this topic provides help and inspiration to others.
The Bergs will need to be re-measured.....between all the numbers in my head and my 2.5 year old measuring everything with the verniers and dial indicator.
modnrod 路
Are the Pauter rollers the only roller rockers with the shorter arm length?
Do you know which brand nowadays in 1.4 foot rockers has the shorter arm length too?
Is it possible for your build to relocate the rocker shaft using offset steel bushes through modified rocker shaft bolt holes?
fish26 路
possible but not necessary if the Pauter rockers work, I'm pretty certain that early black Bugpack Rockers had shorter arms very similar to Erson.
SuperOwen 路
Sometimes you just have to decide if the gains in getting something perfect are worth the expense and hassle if your getting it pretty damn close. How close are you to having the adjuster inline with the pushrod at half lift now?
fish26 路
Owen, I wish it was that easy. Close enough is not good enough for me.
@ half lift adjuster is perfect although I usually look to have good alignment also at full lift as that's where the pushrods and rockers are working the hardest.
The problem is the swipe on the lash cap is not ideal which is affected by the arc of the rocker at half to full lift. If I leave it as it stands there is a chance of premature wear on the guides.