Ford Closing Aus Manufacturing

Just seen on the news Ford is Closing its Australian Manufacturing??
WTF...
Where is this going to end??

Does anyone really care?

I was more upset in '68.

AA003 wrote:Does anyone really care?

I was more upset in '68.

I assume that was said with tongue planted firmly in your cheek.
We should all care, jobs off shore means a weaker economy, that impacts on us all.

It is a shame about the Australian car industry. The govt worked hard in the 50's and 60's to build the industry by offering huge incentives for local made cars and taxed the buggery out of imported cars. Now it is a level playing field and we cannot compete when our labour rates are 3 times what they are through Asia. Ford has been on the chopping block for some time now so it is not a shock. Holden may only have about 5 years left before they are in the same boat. The unfortuinate thing with Holden is they make large cars (the Commadore) and also the Cruize. The demand for large cars has shifted and now people are buying suv's and smaller cars. This does not bode well for holden. They will have to look at more than just the Cruize to save them.

Also....

The Govt is pushing the line that Australia is doing really well. That is complete BULLSH!T, how can this country be doing well when large companies are pulling out of Australia, Ford being the most recent? Large companies are going bankrupt and are calling in administrators, Good examples here are a nationwide trucking company, WOW home entertainment and the list goes on. Add to this established companies are downsizing, In Canberra, Harvey Norman closed it longest running shop here, Myer is pulling back on expansion plans. Dick smith is closing shops. In a southside shopping centre there are more and more vacant shops. Look at the amount of offshoring that is taking place, this is because companies are trying to reduce costs to stay afloat.

You look at all of this and tell me we are in a good position.

I work in a bank,. and a good indicator of how the bank feels things will be in the future is to look at fixed home loan rates. Now if the 3 year fixed rate is 4.95% then that show the bank believes interest rate will not go much higher than that over the course of the next 3 years. So all thoses people chasing the best rate hoping it will go up are not going to do well in the near future. The bank is not going to lend people money for a period and then have a higherr rate in their savings accounts.

Ian Bugden wrote:It is a shame about the Australian car industry. The govt worked hard in the 50's and 60's to build the industry by offering huge incentives for local made cars and taxed the buggery out of imported cars. Now it is a level playing field and we cannot compete when our labour rates are 3 times what they are through Asia. Ford has been on the chopping block for some time now so it is not a shock. Holden may only have about 5 years left before they are in the same boat. The unfortuinate thing with Holden is they make large cars (the Commadore) and also the Cruize. The demand for large cars has shifted and now people are buying suv's and smaller cars. This does not bode well for holden. They will have to look at more than just the Cruize to save them.

Also....

The Govt is pushing the line that Australia is doing really well. That is complete BULLSH!T, how can this country be doing well when large companies are pulling out of Australia, Ford being the most recent? Large companies are going bankrupt and are calling in administrators, Good examples here are a nationwide trucking company, WOW home entertainment and the list goes on. Add to this established companies are downsizing, In Canberra, Harvey Norman closed it longest running shop here, Myer is pulling back on expansion plans. Dick smith is closing shops. In a southside shopping centre there are more and more vacant shops. Look at the amount of offshoring that is taking place, this is because companies are trying to reduce costs to stay afloat.

You look at all of this and tell me we are in a good position.

I work in a bank,. and a good indicator of how the bank feels things will be in the future is to look at fixed home loan rates. Now if the 3 year fixed rate is 4.95% then that show the bank believes interest rate will not go much higher than that over the course of the next 3 years. So all thoses people chasing the best rate hoping it will go up are not going to do well in the near future. The bank is not going to lend people money for a period and then have a higherr rate in their savings accounts.

Perfectly said. Unfortunately I think we may be at the end of a golden era in this country.

hrastovica wrote:Perfectly said. Unfortunately I think we may be at the end of a golden era in this country.

And if enough people start thinking that way, we sure will be!🤪

Ok, so who wants to join together and start a new aust small car company? we'll approach the govt for insentives or part ownership. I'm keen 👍 😀

Oh! and it has to have a separate floor pan from the body, so we can make modern day buggies. 👍

If enough people get togther we could call it the "people's car".

As buggys aren't real cars, we could make them in Clayton!😂

A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.

Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.

Maybe if the Australian car manufacturer built an innovative product that people wanted then there wouldn't be a problem. Holden will be next.

Craig Torrens wrote:Maybe if the Australian car manufacturer built an innovative product that people wanted then there wouldn't be a problem. Holden will be next.

This.

Holden are really counting on the VF to save them. They've called it a "make or break" car. Yet have once again not introduced a diesel option even though they have a perfectly good diesel engine in the Colorado. They know the Cruze is a lost cause as a saviour, and are too scared to promote the hell out of the Malibu in case it outsells the Commonwhore. Who cares if it outsells your own product? Wouldn't you rather the HOLDEN Malibu outsell the Commodore than the TOYOTA Corolla?

Just my 2c...

What about the Adventra and the Monaro?

Both could have sold well, but the bean counters stopped them.

Just face it. Holden cannot build a 4 cylinder car. They have all been disasters. That's where they keep losing millions.

I know that I may be a bit cynical but couldn't these shut down threats be just a ploy to get a few mill from our tax dollars?

AA003 wrote:What about the Adventra and the Monaro?

Both could have sold well, but the bean counters stopped them.

Just face it. Holden cannot build a 4 cylinder car. They have all been disasters. That's where they keep losing millions.

I know that I may be a bit cynical but couldn't these shut down threats be just a ploy to get a few mill from our tax dollars?

The Adventra definitely had potential, but not marketed well and had to go up against more established all wheel drive cars like audi and subaru... and inside they were just an ugly VZ commodore. Two bad decisions that led to it's death. The Monaro? Please... you mean the commodore coupe. What an utter bucket of sh**. Not only were they ugly as sin, they were also a hideous VZ onthe inside. They were also terribly overpriced. If you just wanted to do straight line skids, or race from red light to red light to show the P platers in their Lancers what a "real man" could do (translation: unless you were a bogan with a heavy need to compensate for lack of brains, teeth and penis length) then they were a stupid car. Holden keep trying to make cars to take on heavy hitters or try andslide their way into the high end market. The problems have always been the disgustingly designed cheap interiors, and the ever constant need to steal design elements from other companies and not even try and hide it.

The problem with their 4 cylinder cars is that they can't help but touch the engines. They buy a perfectly good car from Vauxall/Opel/Chevy/Daewoo... and then "tweak" it. Then we get a car that was brilliant overseas and sold like wildfire, that suddenly comes back on a tow truck every week. The Zafira is a perfect example of that. Thereare some personal import Vauxall Zafiras getting around that have never had dramas, but the Holden ones with the "retuned" ecus are the ones suffering from timing chain dramas. Don't even get me started on the Jackaroo diesel engines that they butchered... The cruze has had more recalls/reworks than any other car I've ever seen in my entire life because they had to change the engine and not just use the 1.6L Barina engine. Speaking of Barinas... the TK Barina could have been Holdens golden horse if they had have charged a realistic price for it. Instead it sold in dismal numbers even though it is the most reliable "Holden" vehicle in the last 20 years.

Sorry... getting very sidetracked from Ford now. I'll let this get back on topic.

Shell Oil Refinery down here in Geelong is on the market, Ford is going off shore, I think Alcoa might shift out of Geelong too, all our prime meat & fish go offshore and we get flooded with disgusting substandard imported meat and fish being palmed off to us as Australian goods!!!! One example, our prime Australian Gummy shark (flake) is sent over seas and in return we get this shit called "Bassa" (freshwater catfish from taiwan) and passed off as Australian flake in most fish shops. Aussies that dont know any better are paying the full price for a piece of Australian Gummy Shark that really is just shit bassa that only costs the fish shop owner a couple bucks a kilo

Holden is exporting cars, and that is their only saving grace. The Australian government will prop them up a bit more as they are an exporter also.

The writing was already on the wall for Ford years ago. They don't export anything! The reason Toyota is going well is because they export more Camrys than they sell locally. Toyota and Holden both build LHD versions of their cars for export, but Ford decided that they couldn't justify the expense of converting the Falcon to LHD. There are no suitable RHD export markets for large cars other than New Zealand.

The problem is the fickle nature of the consumer and Australia's huge variety of choice in new cars. Australia has more car brands available than the USA, and they have 300 million people to our 20 million. 10 years ago the large local cars were doing well, and then for some reason Australian consumers abandoned the segment almost completely and went over to SUVs. Look up the stats if you like, but in about the last 15 years, the large car market segment has dropped from about 25% of new cars down to 4%, whilst SUVs have shot up by roughly the same amount. Small cars have nothing to do with it, because their sales have stayed more or less steady.

Very sad for all the people losing there jobs....

I think its time for government owned car manufacturing. Sounds like the tax payer was taking all the business risk at Ford anyway. Maybe shipbuilding next. We have the resources.

bus914 wrote:I think its time for government owned car manufacturing. Sounds like the tax payer was taking all the business risk at Ford anyway. Maybe shipbuilding next. We have the resources.

a government in business, so..
a loaf of bread will be cheaper than a bag of flour if that's the case
= epic fail 🙅

hrastovica wrote:

Ian Bugden wrote:It is a shame about the Australian car industry. The govt worked hard in the 50's and 60's to build the industry by offering huge incentives for local made cars and taxed the buggery out of imported cars. Now it is a level playing field and we cannot compete when our labour rates are 3 times what they are through Asia. Ford has been on the chopping block for some time now so it is not a shock. Holden may only have about 5 years left before they are in the same boat. The unfortuinate thing with Holden is they make large cars (the Commadore) and also the Cruize. The demand for large cars has shifted and now people are buying suv's and smaller cars. This does not bode well for holden. They will have to look at more than just the Cruize to save them.

Also....

The Govt is pushing the line that Australia is doing really well. That is complete BULLSH!T, how can this country be doing well when large companies are pulling out of Australia, Ford being the most recent? Large companies are going bankrupt and are calling in administrators, Good examples here are a nationwide trucking company, WOW home entertainment and the list goes on. Add to this established companies are downsizing, In Canberra, Harvey Norman closed it longest running shop here, Myer is pulling back on expansion plans. Dick smith is closing shops. In a southside shopping centre there are more and more vacant shops. Look at the amount of offshoring that is taking place, this is because companies are trying to reduce costs to stay afloat.

You look at all of this and tell me we are in a good position.

I work in a bank,. and a good indicator of how the bank feels things will be in the future is to look at fixed home loan rates. Now if the 3 year fixed rate is 4.95% then that show the bank believes interest rate will not go much higher than that over the course of the next 3 years. So all thoses people chasing the best rate hoping it will go up are not going to do well in the near future. The bank is not going to lend people money for a period and then have a higherr rate in their savings accounts.

Perfectly said. Unfortunately I think we may be at the end of a golden era in this country.

I agree, actually I think it ended long time ago.

waveman1500 wrote:The writing was already on the wall for Ford years ago. They don't export anything! The reason Toyota is going well is because they export more Camrys than they sell locally. Toyota and Holden both build LHD versions of their cars for export, but Ford decided that they couldn't justify the expense of converting the Falcon to LHD. There are no suitable RHD export markets for large cars other than New Zealand.

The problem is the fickle nature of the consumer and Australia's huge variety of choice in new cars. Australia has more car brands available than the USA, and they have 300 million people to our 20 million. 10 years ago the large local cars were doing well, and then for some reason Australian consumers abandoned the segment almost completely and went over to SUVs. Look up the stats if you like, but in about the last 15 years, the large car market segment has dropped from about 25% of new cars down to 4%, whilst SUVs have shot up by roughly the same amount. Small cars have nothing to do with it, because their sales have stayed more or less steady.

why have people gone for SUVs? I just can't see the logic other than feeding ones own ego.

I hear the excuse "I need bigger car for the kids"

wtf? when my brothers, sisters and I were kids I remember our cortina with 5 people was massive inside, fact is kids are tiny, they don't need much space.

just makes me angry.

vlad01 wrote:why have people gone for SUVs?

Have you driven a Ford lately?

Unfortunately, the government hasn't supported any industry in this country for a long time, whether it be clothing and textiles, food, car, farming, etc.

The government, especially this outgoing one, has taxed the hell out of local industry, strangled them with the carbon tax we weren't going to have, but allows imports in from countries that have tariffs on imported goods into their country.

People will say that wages are too high when compared with other countries. That may be so on the face of it, but so is the cost of living here. Increases in Medicare Levy, high health insurance costs, high general insurance costs, GST, high income tax, Carbon Tax, Payroll Tax on employers, high utilities costs and worst of all, high social security payments and overseas aid. No wonder we have the deficit we have for the population we have.

Unfortunately, for any country, take away manufacture and production, you have no economy. We can't survive just as consumers, and the government will have to start printing money to pay the social security and loan interest bill.

Also, people want waaaaay too much for so little. This is the greed creeping into everyone.

Craig Torrens wrote:Maybe if the Australian car manufacturer built an innovative product that people wanted then there wouldn't be a problem. Holden will be next.

Holden is next. Commodore will stop production around 2015.

AA003 wrote:A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.

Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.

Add to that, Australian government. Clean up Australia Day on 14 September can't come quick enough.

The reason these companies leave is simply costs. Our high standards of living make it uneconomical for them to operate. I know that's the simplified version, but that's really the crux of it.

Everyone complains about taxes but then expects the government to prop up failing industries and subsidise power, provide health care etc etc etc. You can't have it both ways.

Damn Keynesians lol

OK, I've got the answer.

No need to work your arse off!

Say whatever you like! [Lies OK].

Get paid well....even if you stuff up! [and even when you retire].

WE"LL ALL BECOME POITICIANS. 👍

With the tax concessions and impport duties of the past, many foreign makers set up loacl factories in Australia. GMH, Ford, Chrysler, BMC (Austin/Morris), Renault, AMI-Toyota, Volkswagen. They have all lost money and almost all are gone. Sydney used to have car factories at Pagewood (GMH) and Homebush (Ford).

Volkswagen invested over $50 million in Australian production from 1955 up to 1966 (about $585 million today), budgeting to make 50,000 vehicles a year with 95% local content. They never made more than 35,000 a year and by 1967 were down to 15,000. With such a small turnover they could not afford the annual improvements of the Wolfsburg parent (which made 800,000 a year). Crippling losses led to closure of Australian manufacture in 1968 and bankruptcy for Volkswagen Australasia. The factory survived as an assembler of German CKD kits only, but was sold to Nissan in 1976. Nissan in turn lost over a billion dollars trying to make cars in Australia by the time they sold the former VW plant in 1992.

Volkswagen never received a cent in government assistance when their factory closed - in fact the government cut their import quota to less than 10,000 cars a year when they reverted to a full importer. Ford has collected 1.1 billion dollars over the last 20 years, while the government plans to spend another $5.4 billion (from where?) up to 2020.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/car_cash_cant_stop_ford_crash/

helbus wrote:The Australian government will prop them up a bit more as they are an exporter also.

Gee I thought they were an importer,not much exporting being done 😉

Bring on cleanup Austarlia day 😎😂

Hi Vlad
Fact is, You cannot put 3 car seats in the beack of most cars and SUVs..
They are just too wide.. so a 7 seater is needed for many families.. with 3 small kids [up to 7 years old depending on size of child] [or longer]

The smaller SUVs [many now with 2 wheel drive] like the Mitsubishi outlander, Rav 4, KIA Sportage HYundai X35 CAPTIVA etc are now cheaper than a Falcon or Commodore and You sit up high, good vision and look great too [IMHO]
something different..

Fellow from FORD said cost of making a car in Asia is 4 times cheaper than they can make them in Australia..

CARBON tax of $27 a tonne compared to $4 in Europe...
naturally is NOT going to help anyone in Australia..
[if there are any left that is...]

That also means the FORD Territory won't be made here either..
FORD lost sales for years by NOT having a diesel territory...

LEE

vlad01 wrote:

waveman1500 wrote:The writing was already on the wall for Ford years ago. They don't export anything! The reason Toyota is going well is because they export more Camrys than they sell locally. Toyota and Holden both build LHD versions of their cars for export, but Ford decided that they couldn't justify the expense of converting the Falcon to LHD. There are no suitable RHD export markets for large cars other than New Zealand.

The problem is the fickle nature of the consumer and Australia's huge variety of choice in new cars. Australia has more car brands available than the USA, and they have 300 million people to our 20 million. 10 years ago the large local cars were doing well, and then for some reason Australian consumers abandoned the segment almost completely and went over to SUVs. Look up the stats if you like, but in about the last 15 years, the large car market segment has dropped from about 25% of new cars down to 4%, whilst SUVs have shot up by roughly the same amount. Small cars have nothing to do with it, because their sales have stayed more or less steady.

why have people gone for SUVs? I just can't see the logic other than feeding ones own ego.

I hear the excuse "I need bigger car for the kids"

wtf? when my brothers, sisters and I were kids I remember our cortina with 5 people was massive inside, fact is kids are tiny, they don't need much space.

just makes me angry.

At the end of the day, why would the giant car makers build cars here, in such a unionised, high-wage, high-expense, over-taxing country (with additional ADR requirements that Europe doesn't have), when they can manufacture in China?

Volkswagen already has no less than TEN different factories in China:

http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/the_group/production_plants.html

VW recently began constructing another factory, at Changsha, which alone will have a capacity of 300,000 vehicles a year (more than the entire Australian motor industry). Volkswagen plans to manufacture 4 million vehicles a year in China by 2018.

http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/news/2013/05/VW_Changsha.html

The government shouldn't prop up the car industry by GIVING them money, as the car companies will not spend wisely.

The government should have looked at the Obama model and LOANED the money to the companies to be repaid, or that the government has say x-amount stake in the company equivalent to its loan amount. That is investment. Instead, this mob of imbeciles have thrown billions at the car industry, and all to no avail other than to throw us further into debt. One question to be asked, and obviously hasn't been, is "Where the hell has all that money gone?"

If anyone ran a business the way this country has been run, you would have had to file for bankruptcy and never been allowed to be in charge of another business, yet these clowns want to be re-elected. Put out the rubbish on 14 September for collection on 15 September!!!

Here's what Holden has to say about the incoming government:

"The Coalition's stated policy is to refer auto assistance matters to the Productivity Commission from 2015 and remove $500 million from a $1.5 billion Labor support fund in the meantime.

Mr Weatherill today said he was working with Holden to ensure it remained in Adelaide until 2022 and failure to support it with taxpayer funds would result in closure."

They want taxpayer funds, then the government should have a say as to how that money will be spent, or set up loan repayments as anyone needing money would have to have. Loan repaid over a period of time, or when the company shuts shop, government is the first in line to get its money back.


http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/holden-pleads-for-help-as-ford-closes-shop-in-australia/story-fnda1bsz-1226649540331#ixzz2UAsf7Ode

vlad01 wrote:why have people gone for SUVs?

It's so all these Soccer mums can still feel safe driving like f'king idiots and hurt other people instead of themselves and their kids when it all goes wrong.
My old workshop was across the road from the local towies holding yard and the amount of tipped over 4x4s that came in because they have been driven too fast through a corner/roundabout was a joke.

Joel wrote:

vlad01 wrote:why have people gone for SUVs?

It's so all these Soccer mums can still feel safe driving like f'king idiots and hurt other people instead of themselves and their kids when it all goes wrong.
My old workshop was across the road from the local towies holding yard and the amount of tipped over 4x4s that came in because they have been driven too fast through a corner/roundabout was a joke.

you know whats grinds my gears, always the people in territory thats are the worst, 95% of territory drivers speed and tail gate you. every time some bastard is up my rear, i look, surprise surprise a territory. 😬 them mostly out of all SUV drivers out there.

just look at this s#it.

The guy on the quad must have been tailgating also.

Geeze Vlad, that picture!!!
You've just put me off from going for a drive in my dub.👎

I'm going to stay here at home under my rock nice and safe.😂

I can see that the owner of the VL loved it. RIP commodore.😢

You know whats grinds MY gears, people who think that other people who are disposed to tailgaiting and / or speeding automaticaly run out and buy a particular type of vehicle, I'd like to see a survey done to see just what type of vehicles are involved in rear enders, reckon it would cover a vast range of models, makes and drivers. Oh and one other thing, I realy hate it when people grind their gears, if you can't select a gear without grinding then you need to have your clutch adjusted or replaced and if that dosn't rectify the situation then buy a car with an aouto box, but please not a Territoty. 🙅😁

Damn hopefully that isnt a real Walky and only a replica 🤪

Gotta laugh at that ride-on through the tail gate of the territory, what kind of moron doesnt tie that shit down, oh yeah that moron.

Joel wrote:Damn hopefully that isnt a real Walky and only a replica 🤪

Gotta laugh at that ride-on through the tail gate of the territory, what kind of moron doesnt tie that shit down, oh yeah that moron.

those kind of people that buy those kinds of cars.

always those, and thats why there is stereotypes for a reason.

also I get crap from tradies driving utes, its like they own the place.

How dose Germany have a higher GDP than China, have high wages, high standard of living and and a high cost of living, but still support the rest of the EU, they have a large hi-tech manufacturing base that exports the best in the world, maybe they have a different attitude, government should not support businesses that cannot make it alone, survival of the fittest.

Germany is in a much better position for manufacturing than Australia, because they have a much larger population and they are perfectly located smack-bang in the centre of Western Europe, conveniently connected by road, rail and sea to over 500 million potential consumers in an area smaller than Australia (the EU).

So are a lot of other countries are close tp Germany in the EU that have failed ecomonies, Australia is run by a lot of short sighted pollies, weither they are liberal or labour, career pollies that need to be replaced by people with real world experence, Germany might be in a better location but Australia has better natural resourse's that should be used to support local manufacturing, instead it's export it for a quick return. at least we will have a large tourist market when the dollar drops.

why have people gone for SUVs? I just can't see the logic other than feeding ones own ego.

One of my cars is a bloody big Chev suburban, dont think towing a 3 ton boat or tandem trailer with a Kombi on the back with a smaller vehicle would be safe or legal. Horses for courses, I enjoy my other small cars but that big 8 ltr motor pulls harder than a 14 year old and will pass anything on the road,

except a service station!!

h wrote:

bus914 wrote:I think its time for government owned car manufacturing. Sounds like the tax payer was taking all the business risk at Ford anyway. Maybe shipbuilding next. We have the resources.

a government in business, so..
a loaf of bread will be cheaper than a bag of flour if that's the case
= epic fail 🙅

Maybe then we could export cars and be competitive on price. And whoever inflates the price of flour would have to suck it up and be competitive too.

I think it was nedstar that said "feel sorry ofr the workers". Well yes, there is a case for feeling sorry for them- of course. But not as sorry as I feel for self employed workers.

Many years ago privatisation came. Cleaners, telco workers, all sorts of professions went private. Contractor filled the need where a Govt worker once worked. A slightly higher hourly rate did not compensate for paying ones own super, fuel, cars etc etc

In 2004 I was self employed (as I am now) in the insurance industry. Had I been in the same industry in the 1970's I would have worked in Govt. In 2004 there was a downturn in my industry. I had no warning. It wasnt until 6 weeks later of no work that I was forced in desperation, to seek my security license and get a job in security at Puckapunyal Army base.

Note 1/ the Ford workers have 3.5 years warning.

As I'm self employed I didnt get any redundancy payout

Note 2/ Ford workers will receive a handsome handshake

As a self employed worker the Federal Govt didt throw 40 million dollars into my local community in extra funds to prop up the jobs situation.

Note 3/ The Govt pledged 40 million dollars to the geelong and Broadmeadows communities.

How many Ford workers will embark on retraining in the next 3.5 years. How many will enter night school next term? I'd suggest very few.

I'm not Ford worker bashing, I'm cheesed off because much of the workforce is now self employed and no one helps us in a time of need. One further example of this is when you apply for Newstart. As a redundant worker it is all so easy- fill in the forms and produce your redundancy letter. Self employed persons get a heap of extra forms like profit and loss statement requests and a scrutiny over your bank statements. The magnifying glass is strong at Centrelink on self employed workers.

Now as for Ford. IMO all car manufacturers have tried to keep up with the Jonses and not supplied us with the right machines. John Singleton in the 1980's was planning to import a jeep type vehicle into Oz that was the bare bones 4WD car. For about $10,000 (current cost) one could buy one. Top speed 85kph, 4 cylinder diesel, soft top (hard top optional) winding windows etc. Oz standards stuffed up the plan BUT had it made it I think many would have sold. My point is that it would have been cheap, nasty but filled a need.

Where is the $10,000 3 cylinder diesel two seat commuter car? Even with manual windows, no tacho just a speedo and warning lights that got 3 litres/100kms? There are many people commuting that would rather buy one of these than pay $20,000 for a petrol car and delay having a family or prevent higher debt.

The modern cars are all the same fitting the same purpose. There is no out of the square thinking, no radical but practical ideas and therefore they are in direct competition with each other. So Ford have themselves to blame for sticking to the Falcon, an uninspiring gas guzzler that is so similar to the other 6 cylinder cars.

And finally on Government handouts to big manufacturers. Ford have stated they will not return the huge Govt funds to the Govt because they are bringing out the last Falcon and the last Territory before shutdown. I reckon ford, in all good faith to the tax payer, should donate to the Australian people the factories and the said land the two factories sit on. We could turn them into wind turbine factories (all are now made in China), motorised pushbikes, solar panels etc.

- but I wont hold my breath.

tweety wrote:Where is the $10,000 3 cylinder diesel two seat commuter car? Even with manual windows, no tacho just a speedo and warning lights that got 3 litres/100kms? There are many people commuting that would rather buy one of these than pay $20,000 for a petrol car and delay having a family or prevent higher debt.

For $12,000 you can have a 5 door Suzuki Alto with four seats, 6 air bags, central locking, power windows and even an MP3 CD player. The Alto will do 4.5 litres/100kms on petrol (cheaper than diesel) and is much quicker and more refined than a diesel would be for that price. The modern consumer is absolutely not willing to buy a new car without power windows and air bags. Most people who are looking for a cheap car and are happy to live with something that basic will get a used car for under $5000.

More to the point, I don't believe it is possible to profitably build such a cheap car in Australia. The reason the local manufacturers are building large cars is because there is more profit margin in them. Building small cars is almost as expensive as building large cars, so you have to be extremely efficient and build in very high volumes to make money at it. India and China are both very good at doing that.

If VW made a 4 cylinder Up they would have a winner I reckon. 55kw in a car that size is enough but the 3 cylinder is just too far out of balance. It feels like it has a massive flywheel to try (but fail) to dampen it, but that in turn stops it from revving, and the revs dont drop when you clutch and change gears. A lot of kit and nice drive for $16K and far better than any of the starlet/getz type rentals I have driven. The Up does sound cool at revs. Kinda porsche flat 6 cross old holden six. Includes electric everything, sat nav, bluetooth, automatically brakes if it senses impending crash, all the antiskid/slide/spin acronyms, hill start assist, plenty of room front and back even in the 3 door. No cruise control inexplicably.

Ford are useless and the car buying public are better off without them. I owned an EF falcon and if it was an electrical ancillary it broke. The black paint on the wipers fell off. Sold it. Few years later gave them a second chance with a BA and the bonnet release handle broke. So many of them break the parts guy knew the price off the top of his head. He told me I was lucky it didnt break the fuse box it attached too as well. The brakes were shit. they warped all the time. The handbrake was a bitch to adjust and needed it regularly. Yet my base spec lancer had auto adjusting handbrake and never needed adjusting (or shoe replacement) and it had 300,000kms. It had some weird rear end wander that nobody seemed to be able to fix. I know someone who had a territory for work car and thought it was pretty good. He then bought one for his own personal car. Pretty soon he regretted it. If it was made of plastic it either creaked, cracked, or fell off. Another part of their problem is they abandoned V8 racing way back. Like it or not there are a LOT of Aussies who love their v8's and ford were racing a 4 cylinder. They lost shit loads of fans over it. If you're a holden fan you dont buy a ford. Going back further they had the commercial market sewn up. They had a monopoly on the panel van market and dropped it. They had a near monopoly on the station wagon fleet market because they had so much more room than the commodore. But they dropped it.

The car industry bailout is wrong. Its school halls/pink batts all over again. Instead of giving Holden and Ford buckets of money they should have bought cars. At least then they would have got 25% of it back in 3 years when at the end of the fleet life. All they have done is ensure the safety of the execs payout.

My Wife drives a Suzuki swift which is a great car..
owned two CE Lancers, did over 250,000 klms without any major problems.. I did replace all the shocks on the last one
I could see the rubber bits from the top shock absorbers in the boot.. lol but they were great cars..
Mother in Law bought a new ALTO as I told Her the NRMA says they were the cheapest car to own..
well, everyone who drove it didn't like the engine noise..
the 3 cylinders just didn't sound right... to anyone..
everyone who drove it hated it..
She actually took it to her [normal mechanic] just after She bought it as she thought there was something wrong with the engine.. it was terrible..

so an UP or Mirage or Alto with 3 cylinders isn't for Me.. lol

Ford IMHO hasn't been trying to sell people anything they have wanted for many years..

Now with a FALCON with a 4 cyl or 6 cyl engine at the same price...
?????

People were after Territories with a diesel engine for years...

I also agree, ALL government cars should be Australian made..

Just reading that Hyundai X35 SUV need new brake discs and pads every 30,000 approx klms $700++ cost every 30,000 klms..
Now I bet not many new owners know about that... lol
I have read of lots of cars are now wearing all the brakes out at low klms and they are NOT covered by warranty..??

there is a good warranty clause called wear and tear that excludes most anything that wears out... whenever..
so a 5 year warranty isn't worth much.. lol

LEE

waveman1500 wrote:[
For $12,000 you can have a 5 door Suzuki Alto with four seats, 6 air bags, central locking, power windows and even an MP3 CD player. The Alto will do 4.5 litres/100kms on petrol (cheaper than diesel) and is much quicker and more refined than a diesel would be for that price. The modern consumer is absolutely not willing to buy a new car without power windows and air bags. Most people who are looking for a cheap car and are happy to live with something that basic will get a used car for under $5000.

hmmm just reading the Up brochure. Seems I may have been wrong about sat nav being standard.

waveman1500 wrote:For $12,000 you can have a 5 door Suzuki Alto with four seats, 6 air bags, central locking, power windows and even an MP3 CD player. The Alto will do 4.5 litres/100kms on petrol (cheaper than diesel) and is much quicker and more refined than a diesel would be for that price.

Ugh you would be surprised.

Like Lee said above my ex mother in law also bought one new aswell and got rid of it at only 6 months old.
There is a good reason you don't see that many on the road, f'king horrid little cars.
All those features may look good on paper but doesnt make up for a poorly made unsafe and underpowered motorised trolley if you could call it that.

They only get that sort of fuel economy if you don't mind being overtaken by fully loaded school busses and little old ladies on mobility scooters.

amazeer wrote:hmmm just reading the Up brochure. Seems I may have been wrong about sat nav being standard.

No. But it's only $500 extra for the satnav/blue tooth package (if you really struggle to read a $10 street directory and need a pointless toy) and the Up! is an excellent car. If people want a cheap car and don't buy an Up! or a Fiat 500, then they didn't do their homework.

good points guys.

I own a Hyundai i30. done 230,000 kms. a friend has an auto done 350,000 kms. nothing major done to either car. constantly gets 5.5L/100kms thats 50 mpg I think. range 900kms plus.

I also had a 3 cylinder Suzuki Swift 1984 GA two seater. Got clocked doing 155kms in it !!! and yes, it throbbed and that was annoying.

But I think there are gaps in the vehicle fleets of cars made. Take my Proton Jumbuck. Bought it new last year, done 55,000 kms. great for firewood etc. no power to speak of but it filled a gap in the car world like the great brumby did. Now jumbuck has ceased in Oz. there is no small ute left for sale. All are large gas guzzling things.

A gap Frod could have filled by making a utility version of the Laser of Fiesta years ago. My Hyundai i30 diesel cut off behind the driver into a ute would be magic. Its torque at a loe 2000 rpm is incredible and cruises like a large car.

We need however a 4WD brumby again. there is a void, a void Ford could ahve filled- all amnufacturers could have filled.

AA003 wrote:A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.

Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.

H'mm, doubt it dick smith are owned by woolworths

They may be owned by Woolworths but some of their stores are being or have been closed, it seems to me that they have changed way past what made them successful at the start

GPS is a lot cheaper/safer than a street directory. $150 tomtom saved my marriage. She cant navigate and I dont have an ounce of patience.

Returned the Up loan car today. Wollongong to Chullora $6.69 (4.1l) and 1 hour. Public transport from Chullora to Wollongong $11.20 and 2 hours (not including the 15 minutes waiting for the bus). I dont think I would cheerfully buy on. Really not a fan of the engine at all. Aside from that, neat package.

silver wrote:

AA003 wrote:A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.

Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.

H'mm, doubt it dick smith are owned by woolworths

Woolworths tried to sell DSE. I don't know if they were successful or not. They have been losing money for a few years now and have closed many of their stores.

Australian management has a reputation worldwide.👎

AA003 wrote:

silver wrote:

AA003 wrote:A lot of Australian companies go broke because of bad management.

Dick Smith, Harvey Norman etc. They'll be the next.

H'mm, doubt it dick smith are owned by woolworths

Woolworths tried to sell DSE. I don't know if they were successful or not. They have been losing money for a few years now and have closed many of their stores.

Australian management has a reputation worldwide.👎

Its because the bastards whom bought DSE out changed its market focus from specialty electronics/electrical componentry/engineering/circuitry to run-of-the mill retravision/harvey normal style electrical appliances, an already well established, over populated and highly competitive market.

I was there when the transistion began, as a Tandy Electronics employee, which was owned by DSE, and subsequently owned by woolJerx. I knew for sure that the oldskool electronics back ground of DSE was long gone when 12 months after i resigned and moved on, I walked in wanting an oscilloscope, all three of the sales people there didn't know what an oscilloscope was!! 🤪 I found it on their shelves on my own and bought it.

Jaycar must be laughing now.

This might explain some of the shit we're in

$55/hour

Minister for Trade and Competitiveness, Craig Emerson, PM Julia Gillard and Treasurer Swan continue to trot out the line that Ford's manufacturing closure is due to the high Aussie dollar.
Hmmm, misleading to say the least.
The reason is, in fact, union imposts and Gillard's anti-competitive policies.
To compete, consumers make a decision on a whole range of factors, one of which is price.
Labour makes up 65% of the component price of car produced in Australia .
When this was put to ACTU National Secretary, Dave Oliver, on live TV this morning he feigned ignorance .
"I know nothing about that."
Really? If he doesn't, he's incompetent. If he does, he's lying.
The panel interviewer quoted this as an industry released fact.
An Aussie car manufacturing worker is on about $55/hour. In Asia it's about $7/hour.
Then there are the holiday loadings, perks, superannuation, safety nets...and on it goes, all of which weigh down heavily on industry in Australia.
Then there's the carbon tax and electricity prices (which have increased by 50% under Labor, all a direct flow from failed green schemes).
It's little wonder it costs twice as much to produce a car in Australia compared to Europe and four times more than the same vehicle in Asia.
Investors are telling industry leaders we are the highest cost country for manufacturing. We're not an attractive place to do business and our consumers pay too much for Aussie made products. Yanks pay half what we do for an equivalent locally-made car.
Labor and its union base has literally dealt our workers out of a job.
Let's take a quick look at the Gillard-Swan-Emerson 'high Australian dollar' argument.
The Australian dollar would need to fall by 50% (to 50c) to get to a level playing field with Europe and 75% (to 25c) to get on equal footing with Asia.
It's a misleading and farcical argument.
The real truth lies in union demands built on government subsidies and unsustainable workplace deals for an industry with a relatively small economy of scale.
This country cannot afford to build cars. Home-built cars can't compete locally and we can't compete globally.
Ford workers can look to their union leaders for pricing them out of work.

Don't propagate the bullshit about high wages unless you think you're overpaid. 😂

bus914 wrote:Don't propagate the bullshit about high wages unless you think you're overpaid. 😂

It is not bullshit. The average employee on the floor at the car manufacturers is $55/hour. For general manufacturing it is $32/hour.

The difference is what makes them uncompetitive. I am sure there are also other little things in their contracts that restrict productivity as well and they will all add up to being uncompetitive. The unions keep their heads up their backsides to the pressures businesses face and think the business will carry on no matter what.

The reality is that at some point, the company just says enough and either close or move overseas.

I am not saying we should be working for asian wages but we do have to be aware of what is going on around us. We need to have competitive productivity AND decent quality control.

If we are not careful, Qantas will be going down the same road for the same reasons.

I personally will not buy anything Australian or US built in cars unless it is backed by a Japanese or European quality control system.

Yogie

I don't know where they got that $55/hour figure, but I'm a graduate engineer in the automotive industry and I'm earning a lot less than that! I do agree that the production line workers at Holden get paid very well though. Their union is strong and they have excellent wages as a result. Compare this to the pitiful wages that motor mechanics get, despite the fact that they are much more highly trained and qualified!

waveman1500 wrote:Compare this to the pitiful wages that motor mechanics get, despite the fact that they are much more highly trained and qualified!

Yeah... we don't really have a union, and it's also not a regulated industry... so we will always be screwed.