Starting to do some preliminary homework on required engine work for a T3 with 5sp manual and looking at realistically what my options are.
Options, as I see it, are in no particular order:
1. Fix existing engine.
2. Fit directly compatible (ie. bolt out bolt in) VW watercooled engine.
3. Fit directly compatible non VW watercooled engine.
4. Fit non VW engine with adaptors etc.
5. Fit compatible VW air cooled engine with/without adaptor as applicable.
6. Convert to pedal power with a hamster on a wheel as a backup.
7. Have the bestest coolerest cubby house in the street.....maybe not.
So having never embarked on anything this big before I wanted to get the down low on what the best approaches are. Have to weigh up cost vs time vs reliability so and advice with those points addressed is appreciated.
What engines fit directly in with no need to change anything else and no need for modification and compliance? Understandably Subaru is top of the list for non VW so do these need adaptors, computers, cooling system upgrades etc? Do any air cooled motors fit (or be made to fit) like a type IV engine or similar)? And whats with the 1.9 engines that makes them that hard/expensive to repair? I will be doing most if not all the work myself so more interested in the cost of parts etc rather than labour.
Please help to make sense of it all. Otherwise, anyone got a good used hamster wheel?馃お
Bizarre 路
Subaru could be a good answer.
Don't bother with air cooled.
Check eBay. There is / was a guy that was selling VW diesel conversion kits.
1.9 are just obsolete for parts. Sort of like 1.2 V 1.6 in air cooled.
Just watch and try and pick up a good 2nd motor. They are out there.
Maybe pull this one down and see what the problem is.
If studs are ok maybe an easy-ish repair
pfillery 路
Diesel would be awesome. Generally more pricey, they add a few grand to a cars new price to go diesel.
Surely things like gaskets and basic rebuild parts should be available for the 1.9?
Yogie 路
Here is some talk about Subaru diesel that is a little old now but may be worth looking in to more.
Unfortunately a little (ok a lot) more than I really want to spend. Would never recover that on a t3.
Going to look into the current engine as an option first. Then probably another donor engine.
Does a Subaru engine need any adaptor plate to fit to the box or are they a bolt up fit?
Bizarre 路
Adaptor
Computer
Wiring loom
You will come close to $6k going Subaru.
Maybe even more once its engineered.
AA003 路
Subaru costs about $10k if you do the work yourself.
Reco your own would cost close to $6k.
Joel 路
AA003 wrote:Subaru costs about $10k if you do the work yourself.
Reco your own would cost close to $6k.
You got your prices back to front there 馃槈
I don;t wanna know how bodgy a 6k reco on a wasser is but if you find a mechanic that will do a proper job on one for that many Caravelle owners would probably like to know.
the $10k subi option is if you decide on gold plating the engine bay or get a drive in/drive out job done
T3 stock cooling has proven to work with an EJ well and if the original engine was FI the stock fuel system works well too.
Just pick up a $500-1000 Liberty or Impreza from ebay/gumtree/auctions, get AMauto to do the loom, Volksconversions adapter and get an exhaust system knocked up you can get out of it for under $5k.
If you're worried about clearance there is a few sump options available but usually kombis/carravelles are not an issue.
I dunno what engineering costs are worth these days but I got my done it was a bit over $600
beetleboyjeff 路
pfillery wrote:6. Convert to pedal power with a hamster on a wheel as a backup.
Please help to make sense of it all. Otherwise, anyone got a good used hamster wheel?馃お
If you do go this route and require 'extra' power by putting 2 hamsters in the tread mill, just make sure they are the same sex - otherwise - dozens of hamsters. lol
pfillery 路
Which engines are directly compatible? No mods or adaptor. Is it just the original t3 motors that are bolt in? What about something like an air cooled motor? They did come in air cooled back in the early models. Theres a fully rebuilt one around 3k if it would fit. Could chuck a 1600 tp in there馃槀
It would be a struggle to justify putting 6k into a van as you would never recoup that, not on a t3, so an "as needed" rebuild or reasonably priced engine swap are the top 2 options.
karmann141 路
Your'e never going to recoup the $ you pile into this van - so you need to decide what your'e willing to spend and what you want to achieve.
I'm with Joel - this is a no brainer - Subaru EJ 20 - EJ25 is the cheapest, most reliable and BEST BANG for your BUCKS you'll ever get.
You've already got a cooling system so you're well ahead with a Subie conversion.
If you're smart and not in a great hurry you can do it very cheaply - my Subaru conversion only cost me about $2grand including a rebuilt 6rib box with Albins 3rd & 4th.
Bought a damaged panelvan with an existing EJ20 conversion and above box. Removed and fitted conversion to my 74 Camper, sold panelvan, sold Camper 1800 motor and box. Extra $ for new radiator setup and wiring changes = very cheap Subaru conversion.
The Subaru motor also looks like it belongs there - no one would ever want to change it back - you may actually increase the value of the T3.
pfillery 路
What do the adapters consist of? Most I've seen are just a plate with holes in the right spot. Is it something that could be manufactured easily rather than store bought?
AA003 路
To do a Subaru properly it costs over $10k.
Bell housing, crossover pipe, sump etc. Any other way is just rough.
(although this is AVD)
Joel 路
You want rough go to Samba where paddlepop sticks and strings are the materials of choice.
The bell housing coversions are fine if you want to impress the road kill,
using the subi clutch, flywheel and starter is a nice neat touch but adapters have worked fine for decades.
You can make your own but for all the work involved and making sure its machined to perfection its just as easy to buy a Volksconversions or Kennedy kit.
karmann141 wrote:The Subaru motor also looks like it belongs there - no one would ever want to change it back - you may actually increase the value of the T3.
Agreed, not many people in the market for T3s are all nostalgic about having an authentic power plant with an uncertain future and geneally like the thought of a modern trouble free engine that will never have a problem getting parts for.
karmann141 路
AA003 wrote:To do a Subaru properly it costs over $10k.
Bell housing, crossover pipe, sump etc. Any other way is just rough.
(although this is AVD)
To pay someone else to do the conversion for you would cost you over $10k - drive in - drive out.
Just becuase you can do it cheaply doesn't mean you can't do it professionally. All depends on your mechanical ability and your attention fine detail (and that's not making shit look shiny).
There's enough conversion stuff coming up for sale cheaply on this site alone.
Don't try and reinvent the wheel - Subaru conversion have been done forever and a day now. KISS - Keep it simple stupid.
AA003 路
I meant $10k for parts. (engine included)
I have a few friends that have done the conversion properely.
Small Car Shop makes the parts.
karmann141 路
AA003 wrote:I meant $10k for parts. (engine included)
ARE YOU SERIOUS?馃槀
AA003 路
karmann141 wrote:
AA003 wrote:I meant $10k for parts. (engine included)
ARE YOU SERIOUS?馃槀
Yes, I have seen the receipts.
Do some research.
MickH 路
Rubbish....I did my last one 12 months ago.....car (donor) was $500 all the smallcar stuff was less than $3500 delivered and the loom was 350 to modify. That made it basically a bolt in conversion...2 day job ....
AA003 wrote:I meant $10k for parts. (engine included)
I have a few friends that have done the conversion properely.
Small Car Shop makes the parts.
1303Steve 路
And once the conversion is done, if you have an issue another motor is cheap to replace or rebuild and if your so inclined its easy to convert back to 8 valves & pushrods, but once you go to the dark side there is no point in going back!
MickH 路
Check out mackaymanx thread......he's onto his second conversion and has fairly detailed pictures
Scottkombi 路
Mick,
I think Phil is talking a low km donk with new head gaskets, timing belt and water pump just for assurity.
A mate just got a 2004 donk with 55,000kms and had all the renovation work done to it (with 2yrs warranty on the donk) plus had an older version reconditioned power steering pump with integral reservoir fitted to the motor and delivered for $4K.
As you say the Small Car bill is about $3.5K so it adds up quick.
I think Am Autos do an install for about $2,300.00.
Subarugears 路
Adaptor plates.....ugh 馃檮
AA003 路
How about a Subaru engine with a Subaru gearbox?
No adapter plates!
Scottkombi 路
Subarugears wrote:Adaptor plates.....ugh 馃檮
I agree - I would never use one again - the Smallcar bellhousing and clutch is a much better engineered solution.
That way you still ahve the Subaru starter and flywheel which are designed for the donk.
Subarugears 路
Scottkombi wrote:
Subarugears wrote:Adaptor plates.....ugh 馃檮
I agree - I would never use one again - the Smallcar bellhousing and clutch is a much better engineered solution.
That way you still ahve the Subaru starter and flywheel which are designed for the donk.
And if you already have a VW 5 speed in there - sweet!
sunburntwilly 路
MickH wrote:Rubbish....I did my last one 12 months ago.....car (donor) was $500 all the smallcar stuff was less than $3500 delivered and the loom was 350 to modify. That made it basically a bolt in conversion...2 day job
Just a quick question if you don't mind could you tell me who did the modified loom. Was it in Aus or small car?
nils 路
I have an ej22 with short sump, cut down loom, reverse intake and custom headers here that I am looking selling in the near future. I have never run the engine, but supposedly has 140k on it
Scottkombi 路
sunburntwilly wrote:
MickH wrote:Rubbish....I did my last one 12 months ago.....car (donor) was $500 all the smallcar stuff was less than $3500 delivered and the loom was 350 to modify. That made it basically a bolt in conversion...2 day job
Just a quick question if you don't mind could you tell me who did the modified loom. Was it in Aus or small car?
I think Mick had AM Autos in Noosa do it.
American vehicles have different looms and hence they will often not work in an Australian delivered Scooby donk to T3 set-up.
mackaymanx 路
Ok I'll clear this up. Adam did Mick's loom not AM Auto, he had a '96 engine but used the manifold and wiring from the '90 - '94 Liberty. The '90 - '94 loom is well documented here and on other sites. The 06/94 - '96 loom is different but no harder to do, the ECU pin out is on here and I got wiring diagrams from the local library for the loom.