EJ22 has cooked, but will rebuild

Unfortunatley the heater bypass hose near the thermostatblew, and we lost the water and cooling to the engine, and not continually looking at the temp guage, it was not noticed that the guage was on 80 degrees, which is unusual on a 37 degree day. So we pull over and the motor smelt very hot, and the timing covers were melting. The radiator was cold, as there was no water left at all.

On pulling the engine out and stripping down, the burnt oil smell was pretty rancid. The wiring and injectors are fine. I already had a pair of new heads. The engine builder has checked the engine case for heat damage, warping etc. and it is good. The engine was second hand when I put it in, so who knows how many k's it has done. There was a lot of old age wear in the bores and bearings. The engine builder is going to go 0.5 over on the pistons rebore. and 0.25 over on the crank main and big end. Then a dynamic balance to keep it smooth.

So with a new rebuild on the long motor and new timing kit and new water pump, It should last quite a few years. I will be replacing all water hoses also. I am also going to fit a low coolant idiot light.

Bugger that suxs pete.

What have you got for a temp gauge?

I've got one that starts flashing red if it gets to whatever temp you set the warning at.
It also has a beeping warning too but the flashing red is hard enough to miss on its own.

What temp does it normally sit on?
if the themostat is working right it should get to 80c in about 5 mins and stay there without dropping any lower, the fans turn on at 95c.
The stock 'stats are 82c or 78c for cars with A/C.

It has always sat between 85-90. On hot days it can climb to 100 with fans coming on at 95. The thermostat is currently 82.

I have had people say "just get another s/h motor" They can be a bit hit and miss. The first one I bought lasted a year and the small end bearings in the conrods started to let go. This current motor has done pretty good and we had done about 50,000k's on it. However the overheating was not the only problem, the motor was worn out. Could have been 300K km when we got it?

This way I get a known product. I can keep it clean an maintained from day 1.

I will also be putting in a clutch and get the gearbox bearing noise fixed. New driveshaft boots.

Seeing as the only maintenance in the last 8 years has been a starter motor and front ball joints. This is the love the bus deserves.

Hi

Thats bad luck, but let us know the cost for the rebuild, I wonder how that compares with doing a rebuild on a VW motor.

Running cool as in no water for the gauge sender to sense is a problem with many cars. It requires a constant watch to see whats happening.

Steve

On my previous 4by, I fitted an Engine Saver low water alarm. It's the sort of thing you need when you go into very remote areas of the outback. Worked extremely well, however it does a self check at startup which means the alarm sounds for a second or two. Bit annoying, but worth it for the peace of mind. PHAT BUG has a whole Suby for sale in Vic for $650 in the classifieds on here.
Cheers.......Wayne

that sucks. That engine is completely toast, everything will be warped and not worth fixing. Because you lost the water the temp sensor would more or less just be measuring air inside the passage and not reflecting the actual temps seen. The internal temps could of reached well over 200c or more.

I wonder if one can get new crate engines?

The engine is not toast, as confirmed by the engine machinist. The bores are not warped or out of round, and the block is not soft, it passed a test they do on alloy. I couldn't imagine 200c destroying the main block of an engine.

As I already had two new heads, I have that part covered. I have access to good pricing on good quality parts, and we assemble engines where I work, so the engine machining is something I have confidence in.

I will have a final build cost, however I believe it will be lower than retail.

That was pretty much the situation I was in.
Had Reco heads already from my original EJ22 so we just did a full reco of the EJ25 and put the heads on it.

Using all geniune parts it came to a bit under $2k and be good for over 300,000kms.

helbus wrote:The engine is not toast, as confirmed by the engine machinist. The bores are not warped or out of round, and the block is not soft, it passed a test they do on alloy. I couldn't imagine 200c destroying the main block of an engine.

As I already had two new heads, I have that part covered. I have access to good pricing on good quality parts, and we assemble engines where I work, so the engine machining is something I have confidence in.

I will have a final build cost, however I believe it will be lower than retail.

Wow that is lucky.

I know when my fan stopped in my daily and got to 140ºc~, it locked the engine to a dead stop. The pistons swelled and seized in the bores.

After it cooled down it was good to go again, although it has done damage as it rattles a bit and lost some power since then, also leaking coolant and oil as everything over expanded. its done over 25-30K since lol.

Also will be fitting new timing kit, new water pump, new plugs, leads, thermostat, heater hoses, oil and filter.

Any suggestions of other items?

Joel wrote:What have you got for a temp gauge?

I've got one that starts flashing red if it gets to whatever temp you set the warning at.
It also has a beeping warning too but the flashing red is hard enough to miss on its own.

What temp does it normally sit on?
if the themostat is working right it should get to 80c in about 5 mins and stay there without dropping any lower, the fans turn on at 95c.
The stock 'stats are 82c or 78c for cars with A/C.

Ha Joel what the name of the guy with the lowered rat bug that moved to QLD ?? He worked at Subaru and could get new long motors cheap .David ?????

ian.mezz wrote:

Joel wrote:What have you got for a temp gauge?

I've got one that starts flashing red if it gets to whatever temp you set the warning at.
It also has a beeping warning too but the flashing red is hard enough to miss on its own.

What temp does it normally sit on?
if the themostat is working right it should get to 80c in about 5 mins and stay there without dropping any lower, the fans turn on at 95c.
The stock 'stats are 82c or 78c for cars with A/C.

Ha Joel what the name of the guy with the lowered rat bug that moved to QLD ?? He worked at Subaru and could get new long motors cheap .David ?????

calcool 🤪

helbus wrote:Also will be fitting new timing kit, new water pump, new plugs, leads, thermostat, heater hoses, oil and filter.

Any suggestions of other items?

are doing all the gaskets and main seals?

Full new Japan made gasket, seal and O ring kit being used. New ARP USA made head stud kit also being used.

I always fit a new oil pump to my rebuilds at work, (motorbikes) for a little extra piece of mind. I agree with rebuild what you have though, at least you know what you are ending up with, always weary of second hand parts.. and I work at a wreckers!!

helbus wrote:Full new Japan made gasket, seal and O ring kit being used. New ARP USA made head stud kit also being used.

Always a good time to go MLS gaskets.

I have done a number of MLS conversions on problematic 4L ford engines and the MLS gaskets are the best! They outlast the engine.

I have got the engine back from machining.

I got the following done

Case checked for overheating softness
Cases cleaned
Main bores 0.5 oversize to suit new 0.5 pistons
Case faces machined flat
case bolted together with torque plates and line bored
case dissassembled, main bearings fitted
Crank bored 0.25 over on main and big ends
crank fitted and case bolted together to check crank clearances
head faces machined flat
Crank dynamically balanced
Conrods weighted
Flywheel and clutch assy dynamically balanced as an assembly

Stock engine however built to high tolerences. 0.0025mm is the tolerence

And now good for another 300,000+kms

helbus wrote:Stock engine however built to high tolerences. 0.0025mm is the tolerence

Crikey. That's 1/10 of 1/1000 of an inch. Is that possible?
In any case, it should run as smoothly as silk, especially with the flywheel/cluth assembly balanced.

hth

Gearbox rebuild with new main bearings (FAG genuine), new sychro on 3rd, quiet 4th gearset and thrust plate modification. This is becoming an expensive excercise, however seing as all I have spent on the bus in the last 8 years is a new starter motor and two front ball joints, it is not too bad.

helbus wrote:Gearbox rebuild with new main bearings (FAG genuine), new sychro on 3rd, quiet 4th gearset and thrust plate modification. This is becoming an expensive excercise, however seing as all I have spent on the bus in the last 8 years is a new starter motor and two front ball joints, it is not too bad.

Its only money mate, might as well enjoy it!

Trouble is the money has to come from somewhere.

Maybe too late but Rod Penrose was/is selling a "new" 1800 gear box at the moment

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=104272

Too late for a 5 speed subaru box conversion?

Mine is a 2 litre box. I would prefer it over the 1800 box.

5 speed conversion would add another 5 grand to the cost, not something I can justify at this stage.

helbus wrote:Trouble is the money has to come from somewhere.

I know what you mean, I'm in the middle of selling my soul on eBay... I'll let you know if I get a good price! At least you know after all the saving it'll go for another 300k with a little care. Good luck with it all.

helbus wrote:Trouble is the money has to come from somewhere.

hmmm, all too familiar with that one.

helbus wrote:Mine is a 2 litre box. I would prefer it over the 1800 box.

5 speed conversion would add another 5 grand to the cost, not something I can justify at this stage.

It would add only $3,500 to the cost....
Dunno if that would have put it closer to the mark for you though. Rebuilding motors ain't cheap 🙅

Motor is nearly assembled. Just waiting for a timing cover that goes behind the cam gear on the drivers side. The Subaru service center has given me the wrong one two times, even though I gave them the part number the second time.

modulus wrote:

helbus wrote:Stock engine however built to high tolerences. 0.0025mm is the tolerence

Crikey. That's 1/10 of 1/1000 of an inch. Is that possible?
In any case, it should run as smoothly as silk, especially with the flywheel/cluth assembly balanced.

hth

yep, sounds typical of a more modern engine.

Yay! Motor is in. Just gotta hook it up and start

Hooked motor up and started tonight. No time to get everything done, but it is going. I still have to hook up throttle and clutch cable and a number of other things. Will look at driving it on Thursday evening maybe.

vlad01 wrote:

modulus wrote:

helbus wrote:Stock engine however built to high tolerences. 0.0025mm is the tolerence

Crikey. That's 1/10 of 1/1000 of an inch. Is that possible?

hth

yep, sounds typical of a more modern engine.

Indeed, after looking at single-pass bore finishing process I see they can now achieve a production size tolerance of 0.001 mm and geometry tolerance of 0.0005 mm. These are figures which would have been barely credible 20 years ago. Ain't progress wunnerful?

hi Pete
how did your EJ22 rebuild go? are you happy with it ?
I think my EJ25 DOHC is on the way out and held to look at my options .
Who did yours?
Would you recommend?
thanks Paul

Sunnyjim wrote:hi Pete
how did your EJ22 rebuild go? are you happy with it ?
I think my EJ25 DOHC is on the way out and held to look at my options .
Who did yours?
Would you recommend?
thanks Paul

x2 Keen to know what they recommend for running in on a new style motor too. Hope all is well with it?

Sorry about the delay. It has taken a long time to get everything finished. I had a couple of setbacks, and my advice is to make sure you watch a number of Youtube engine assembly clips to make sure you are on the right track. No big problem that I could not overcome. If you are planning on doing the assembly yourself, the only real specialist tools that you must get are
Valve spring compressor
engine stand
Torque wrench up to 100ft/lb
Ring compressor (quality USA made type)

Dont get any cheap gaskets, seal, bearings, surface sealant or thread lock

Doing it all yourself, with quality machining, parts and buying the tools, you could do it for $3000'ish depending on whether you get full engine balance, new sensors, injectors cleaned etc. etc. There is always so much more than just the machining of bores and buying a set of pistons.

It may have a faulty fan thermostat sensor, so I have a bug to iron out, otherwise it is running strong. Started about 1/2 a second after cranking it, so started fine once everything was correct.

All I can say is also watch the fuel in and return lines and you dont mess those two up

WOW. How good is a fully rebuilt engine. This feels great, sharp, strong, smooth torque. I want to get it on a dyno and get a real Hp/ Kw figure.

Then it is off to the drag 1/4 mile and see if we can beat the 17.8 sec 75 Mph 1/4 mile.

I wanna thrash this new engine like a bitch.

Is it possible to build the EJ22 more than 135hp? It feels real strong. Maybe the compression is up a touch when the decks got faced. The Dyno will tell all.

EJ22 in theory with the right work, should be able to get 200hp or more. So I would say 150hp+ should be pretty easy.

It could well be up on power. A lot of cases where nothing else has changed, just by having decent machine work done on the cylinders can seal the rings better against the walls. also having valves not leak helps 😀

Interestingly, lots and lots of engine makes from factory have out of round or other wise machined wrong cylinders, slightly out of whack tolerances, crocked decks etc.. When corrected makes a difference.

or most likely you just didn't notice the degradation in power over time due to cylinder/ring wear, and other factors.

In one of my cars, the best it could do was 12 sec to 100, chucked in a 2nd low k engine which was smooth as butter not death rattle like the old one, new times were 7sec to 100. Makes a difference not having the engine so worn out 👍 fuel consumption also dropped by 40-50%, yes the old one was that bad.

Otherwise everything else was unchanged.

Rightio

All done. I have learnt a few things along the way, and I believe we have a nice strong EJ22 now. Smooth torquey, quiet. Once we get to 500km, I will change the running in oil, and it's on. I haven't been pussy footing it though. Plenty of high gear low speed load up hills, constantlt changing revs and load etc. 250km so far, and all good. The temp is sitting on 85'ish all the time, so that is a good sign too.

Worst thing you can do is baby a fresh engine.
when my EJ25 was rebuilt my subi guy who has been building and racing Subarus forever said just make sure coolant and oil is right and drive the arse off it and do several hard pulls from low revs in 3rd gear to bed the rings in.

first thing I did was that and took it for a 100km blast up the Pacific highway
its now got 46,000kms on it now and runs like clockwork.

Just an update on the rebuild.
It is up to 3000km now. Did plenty of 100kph and 110kph drives over the last few days, uphill with a full load of camping gear, water, food etc. for a family of four, trailer with trail bike, fuel, gas and more camping gear.
Yep we did see about 110C temp on the guage when going continuously uphill fully loaded on a 40C temp day, but that is well within the 127C boil point of the cooling system.

Motor was singing sweet on the freeway at 110kph. The low profile tyres make it sit on 4000rpm. Still a couple of hours of that is nothing for a fresh and balanced Subaru engine.