Hey guys, Just curious as to how much some people pay to get a narrowed front beam.
I recently got drop spindles and disc brakes on my 61 beetle, and the tyres were scrubbing on the guards. I was told a narrowed beam will resolve this issue. I was supplied with a new 2" narrowed beam, with new tie-rods with new tie rod ends, the narrowed spring kit, link pins etc. This was all assembled for me so labour was also charged. I was a little shocked with the price, and now curious as too how much this all costs, as i see alot of beetles with this conversion done.
So what sort of price range is fair for this sort of work done?
oldturtle22 ·
Im looking for one for my T1 ATM and the bare beams range from 400 to 850 so far
Klaus ·
Knowledge skill and equipment cost $$$
Gamaufmate ·
I was charged around the $1500 mark as there was 8 hours labour to modify and assemble the new beam. Is this a fair price?
Camo ·
Firstly, I hate paying for labor but at times I have too.
Sorry, but you must remember they had to dismantle and clean the parts that they were going to reuse, cost of the mentioned parts supplied, probably had to ream new king pin bushes and then reassemble it all. So I think that for a business (@ 50-$100 an hour labor) , that would be around the right kind of dollars.
That my 2c, but free of charge today 😂
Kev
ian.mezz ·
Parts , labour, working on a vintage car sounds about right.
in the future its best to shop around and get prices first , to late once your had the job done.
helbus ·
Just welding in adjusters parts and labour is about $800 drive in drive out. So new beam and parts would be $1500 easy. As a drive in drive out price I would not see that as over the top. If it is all quality workmanship and parts, that is good. If it is junk parts and crap fitting, then $10 is a waste of money.
Canni. ·
I paid about the same... lots of work went into disassemble and cleaning plus quality new parts....agreed with helbus, good quality parts are important otherwise you just end up having to fork out money to get it all done again!
matberry ·
Yep, I've redone a few 'pro' jobs, and I'd say that price is very reasonable, as long as it's a good job.
karmann141 ·
I can't believe it costs that much to f..k up the handling of your car.
I'm sure it would cost less to get the correct offset wheels and maintain the factory handling, which is compromised when you narrow the beam.
Boozo ·
correct offset wheels aye? did they ever make those for bugs?
price seems right for getting it done, considering the bare minimum $400 price for the beam, leaves are almost that again, and all the other bits. as said, if it was done right it's a reasonable price. despite that it still seems alot for a few welds on a few old metal toobs 🤪
karmann141 ·
$1,500 would go a long way to getting the right offset wheels made. Might even get change if they're steel.
That's without saying again - a narrowed beam is illegal.
Kuchster ·
I can help with new narrowed adjustable beams if anyone is after one, drive in drive out too if you do not have the skill or tools, no compromise in handling in my opinion, my 8 inch shockless beam in my country buggy handles fantastic, i just have limited turning circle now.
vwo60 ·
Under current regulations it is illegal to narrow the track on any car, sorry i cannopt believer that a 8" narrowed beams handles fantastic, i just took a narrowed beam out of my Ghia and replaced it with a standard beam with the correct offset wheels, what a improvement, drives about 50% better.
Boozo ·
I'll have to agree there, 8 inches and no shocks can't be a good thing. But then, theyre old cars. It's more about style than lap records
Governor ·
Have a crash with a narrowed beam = no insurance unless its been engineered
vwo60 ·
At least you the mention the fact that style over rides safety, nothing to do with lap times. my Ghia rides and handles conciderable better now i got rid of the wheels with the wrong offset. 6" x 17" on the front with 195/50/17 tyres with no rubbing.
Boozo ·
problem is Bug look good with dish or offset. Correct wheels...have non, due to the massive stance a bug has standard.
A narrowed beam (2inch) is no different to changing from a long to a short axle gearbox. and everything still fits. nothing wrong with a 2, you can still have your old school wheels and some low, and shocks, and nice tires.
and I dont know about you guys...but my beam looks exactly like stock.
Gamaufmate ·
Well thats good too know i wasn't ripped off. I didn't mind paying the amount as i needed it done, but i just wanted to make sure i was getting my money's worth. The 2" gives the wheels that extra clearance from the guards, and now it isn't scrubbing 🙂 time to get my guards re painted LOL
Also the handling doesn't seem to have been affected in a negative way? seems normal too me, couldn't tell the difference to be honest with you guys.
Kuchster ·
I find the narrowed beam great, quicker turning, easier reaction, now that we are talking about legalities, is it legal to lower your car a substantial amount if any? is it legal to use wheels of a much larger diameter than standard? is it legal to install seatbelts on a car that was not originally fitted with them without engineering? If you're after safety and legalities and all the rest, there is many safer cars on the road than out 50 year old bugs. As for the narrowed beams, how many of us here need a narrowed beam to be able to fit the brake upgrade and different rims under the front guards?
Take it easy, most of us here are for the looks of our vehicles, if you dont like, dont comment, i have been overwhelmed with fantastic comments relating to the look of my buggy. I am happy to take anyone for a drive, to see how good it handles, you wouldnt even be able to tell wether it has shocks or not, you might just smell a bit of rubber on the headlight buckets.
helbus ·
I wouldn't say most are here for looks of our vehicles. A lot of people like looks, however reliability, economy and safety do chime in.
My 75 bus lowered with 16 inch wheels and Subaru engine is VASS engineered, insured and VicRoads approved.
I will comment because I like my bus and am happy with the confidence in the custom engineering and knowledge that everything is legal
newghia ·
So, has anybody got a cheap narrowed ball joint beam for sale ?
Can supply a stock one if you want to go back to original
Nath
57 Cal look ·
I ran an 8inch narrowed beam with no shocks on the front of this car, and i used nankang 135R15's on the front. And i agree with the comments Kuchster made ... my car ran sweet, drove really well, its pitty the police defected the car ( not besause of the beam) and i ended up scrapping the car. I'd run this type of beam again in a heart beat.
I remember when i firsat turned up at the VEC in Adelaide with this beetle, got heaps of comments, all the guys who didnt like it and thought it was crap had never run anything other than stock ... some of the other guys who liked to modify things loved it ... so with all VW and car stuff, its gonna come down to what you personally like and can afford to do... and just dont listen to the haters, cos haters gotta hate.
matberry ·
Sorry, but no shocks....are you serious!
Maybe there were other reasons that you didn't experience issues but essentially no shocks means your wheels will not stay in contact with the road at all times, this principle was recognised VERY early in automobile design, hell they even fit them to caravans and trailers these days.......
ps. I aint no hater, I've been modding Volksies for 35+ years
vwo60 ·
I am no hater as well, i just appriciate good sound engineering in any modification. Modifications that take into account all of the complications that arise when you make a change and a resalts that is a overall improvement, 57 Cal look, you have to be kidding, eventually people like yourself will be the cause of all modification being banned outright. I make a lot of effort to engineer all modifications to all my vehicles so i can insure all of them so if i have a accident i do not loose everthing i have worked for.
Boozo ·
8 inches is mad, and can look good. No hating on my part, but as stated it will not and cannot drive as nice with no shocks at all. Having said that, a slow cruise and Spirited driving are very different things. The way I like to drive my cars requires shocks...and good ones.
Yanks have been doing the no shocks for years, and I always wondered how it would ride. General consensus is better than I could have imagined.
on that note, KONI? or Bilstein?
helbus ·
KONI is always my first choice
Boozo ·
Yeah thats what I've been thinking.
and 2inch chop is nice 🙂
gordysbeetle ·
I had to go 2 inches narrowed on mine, full tank of fuel and two people = no steering. I thought illeagle was a sick bird ? 🙂
Boozo ·
mine only scrubs on the drivers side because the guard is munted and bogged by a previous owner (which I attacked with a pair of pliers to get me to Warwick one year 🤪 ). sometimes the headlight bucket gets a polish. Running 175's atm.
vwvic ·
I know it's illegal to narrow the track of your front end but if you add dropped spindles and disc brakes which add to your track, taking the extra width out of your beam is not really narrowing it, it's just returning it to standard.
matberry ·
vwvic wrote:I know it's illegal to narrow the track of your front end but if you add dropped spindles and disc brakes which add to your track, taking the extra width out of your beam is not really narrowing it, it's just returning it to standard.
I hate to keep harping on legalities, but this statement is only true when looking at the track widening rule, you forgot the initial fact of fitting non-modified/approved steering components and dropped spindles are not an approved item as they change the geometery, widen the track AND have not been tested to meet vehicle manufacturers/Australian standards.
LUFTMEISTER ·
Since there seems to be so many automotive legal specialists on here. Q# Toyota recalled 6 million vehicles last year. Those cars that slipped throught the recall net with a manufacturers fault. Are they legal & insurable ? Makes what 100 narrowed beams in all of Oz seem quite petty to me. My2c
Craig Torrens ·
😂😂
bugmaniaar ·
Just wondering??????
Has any body ever been pulled up by the law with regard to front end mods.....
vwo60 ·
It all goes well until you are involved in an accident that gets investigated by the machinery department, it is obvious to me that none of the so called 100 cars that have a narrowed beam fitted in this country are legally registed and there fore cannot be insured, you would have had to tell the insurance company in your disclaimer that you have a modification that does not meet the guidelines or can be legally used on the road. every mod I have carried out on my cars are plated in Queensland, a lot of effort and work, as for Toyota they do not have to go through the same system as we do, they do all there engineering work them self and design vehicles that meet the ADR's, they are then responsible if there are any issues that arise. it is a totally different situation to narrowing a front end in your back yard with a hack saw and a welder of some description, one post on here had a guy complaining about how weak welds were when his front end broke in half. best thing I ever did was remove the narrowed beam from my Ghia.
Deadpan ·
So from what learnt from this thread having a narrowed beam is similar to a still bought from a homebrew shop,a wild caught reptile or a bong bought from a tobacco shop,only illegal if inspected or caught ?
roverv8bay ·
G'day all. when I joined the navy in 65 we were told by a shore patrol petty officer everythings legal till you get caught. let alone the insurance side. has anybody on here have a fully engineered registered narrow beam vehicle if you have please share with people the process of legalising it. It's only the matter of time before QLD transport start to crack down on beams like the 4x4 lift kits unfortunately being my age I don't get the rat look or the narrowed beam affect.
ernie
LUFTMEISTER ·
Now your playing the game.🥷 Its all to do with money and who gets caught holding the bag. Same as the mod plate system. If the a car is modified and plated with certain parts and I fit exactly the same parts why do I have to jump through all the hoops again? When an approved packaged has already been established and validated. Money thats why, not safety. A small royalities fee would be paid to the original approver thus providing incentive for more developers, not the closed shop, cash grab we suffer now. My2c
Boozo ·
car modders mod their cars because they want to......not to prove its legal or safe. Many things in the ADR rules are a joke, where others are miles overdone.
Easy way is to mod it....and not tell anyone so your safe and lonely
nils ·
Hey Bodo remember running that floor pan buggy down the road with no shocks? That was absolute madness 😂
vw54 ·
Gamaufmate
How about putting a pic up here of your car now you have the beam narrowed
We would all like to see it
karmann141 ·
Boozo wrote:car modders mod their cars because they want to......not to prove its legal or safe.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not a hater and can appreciate that everyone has different tastes in car mods and share the love for VW's - that's why we're here.
This topic of legality comes up far to often and fortunately Australia is not a Third World country where anything goes. There's a good reason mods should be safe. I agree some of the rules are over the top but that's life.
I could'nt give a rats ....hole if you narrow your beam and it snaps in half at 100kph or the bump steer is so horrific that it sends you flying off the road; but I would be pretty pissed if you crashed into me or killed a member of my family.
The time is coming when the Transport Dept. will say enough is enough - it will happen.
Can I repeat the question has anyone notified their insurer that they have non approved / engineered car mods and been told - "thats fine, mate you're fully covered"
vwo60 ·
Most probably they are not insured at all, that's the problem I have. if any body can prove me wrong that would be great.
roverv8bay ·
G'day vwo60. I agree let's see a fully approved beam job that's in an insured car. I know the hoops I have to jump thru for the mods to the front end on ECLECTIC in having to spread it for the spindles to fit & it doesn't have adjusters or narrowed. I think this post has run it coarse
ernie
Boozo ·
nils wrote:Hey Bodo remember running that floor pan buggy down the road with no shocks? That was absolute madness 😂
yup, twas maddness...especially after bending the bulkhead and crab walking it home
LUFTMEISTER ·
The old straw man argument. Don't care what you do as long as a member of my family/puppies/kittens/nuns is not killed or injured. How about defending your position based on facts, not what ifs. How many narrowed beam cars have been invovled in fatal accidents in Australia? And do you really think that your going to be wiped out by a modified beetle!!! When everyday you are driving towards underserviced semi-trailers & B-doubles (fact) and silly teenagers texting while driving (fact) on your way to work. Its like some of you work for the insurance council of Australia. My2c
vwo60 ·
Facts are quite simple, reducing the safety of the vehicle for the sake of appearance never ceases to amaze me, I am just dumb struck to see that people think it is OK to run a 8" narrowed beam with no shocks, you are just as likely to have that accident in any vehicle but increasing that chance by doing crap like that is ridiculous, Luftmeister, do you run a narrowed beam and are you insured.
Boozo ·
who is gonna write up here. "yes I have insurance, but no my car isn't liegal"..........
bajachris88 ·
Its like those dam trikes that narrow their front end down to a bloody 6 inch footprint single tyre!! 🤓
No shocks is crazy; trikes still got em. Narrowed beams = deviation towards Reliant Robin 😂
LUFTMEISTER ·
I think they call it Hot Rodding & its been going on since before I was born & before lawyers & beaurecrats and insurance companies ruled Oz! Life is not one size fits all. And tomorrow is promised to no man. No matter how much insurance you have. My2c
Can you get insurance against boring!
mactaylor ·
LUFTMEISTER wrote:I think they call it Hot Rodding & its been going on since before I was born & before lawyers & beaurecrats and insurance companies ruled Oz! Life is not one size fits all. And tomorrow is promised to no man. No matter how much insurance you have. My2c
Can you get insurance against boring!
YEP its called BEER!
Boozo ·
LUFTMEISTER wrote:I think they call it Hot Rodding & its been going on since before I was born & before lawyers & beaurecrats and insurance companies ruled Oz! Life is not one size fits all. And tomorrow is promised to no man. No matter how much insurance you have. My2c
Can you get insurance against boring!
very well said sir. Hands will shake when and if we meet
roverv8bay ·
g'day again. Let's hope the transport dept & polizia don't do a summernats & sit outside the nationals checking for defects then we will see who has legal narrowed beams or canaries to take home. no more on the subject. had enough discussion with out any conclusion as to who's engineered & legal.
ernie
Boozo ·
BEER
vw54 ·
pictures please
Boozo ·
😂
Craig Torrens ·
that beer needs to be lowered a few inches 😉
LUFTMEISTER ·
That glass looks foreign made, so will have to be recertified by an Australian engineer to be certain it complies with Australian Beer Regulation # 58008 to be sure it is up to the job of operating with a lower stance of beer!👍
Boozo ·
lol, it disappeared very quickly. and was in Rome....so very foreign 🙂
Gamaufmate ·
vw54, i will try and get a pic up for you guys tomorrow (sorry i have been flat out this past week). To be honest with you guys a 2" narrowed beam does not change the look of the car all that much. It isn't a dramatic change. I only did it so i could clear my guards, as the disc brake conversion offset my wheels by 17mm. So in order to make my car safer (disc brakes) i had to narrow my beam to make it practical and not ruin my pretty paint job. After doing the beam, my dad came home and asked me if i actually changed the beam (lol), there is hardly any noticeable difference from the standard beam to the 2" narrowed, but it helps clear my guards so i'm happy! With this current setup i can reassure you that there is nothing dangerous in regards to the handling of the car, it feels like a normal volkswagen, ride comfort nor handling were not sacrificed in this conversion. I will get pics up soon.
Boozo ·
Good to hear your happy with it, 2inch is just the right amount of narrow for the extra room 'under' the guards.
Gamaufmate ·
Ok guys, sorry about taking so long, been really busy. Managed to take some pics of her when i got home today. Sorry if they aren't the best, but it kinda shows the stance of the car. Let me know what do guys think! 🙂
vw54 ·
nice job hardly noticeable
which brake set up did you have fitted ??
Gamaufmate ·
It was just the Empi disc brake and drop spindle kit. Everything bolted up quite nicely and works very well.
Mr Muppet ·
Is that a wide 5 disc brake kit mate ?
vw54 ·
the Empi
theres that terrible word not a fan of there products
Craig Torrens ·
Have you had a wheel alignment done ?
It looks like it has positive camber, but maybe that's just the photo angle ??
ian.mezz ·
Craig Torrens wrote:Have you had a wheel alignment done ?
It looks like it has positive camber, but maybe that's just the photo angle ??
youtube 😊
donn ·
Hmm, that would be hard for me Mr. Mezz, my tyres are devoid of tread and I've only got a metric tape. 🤪😂🙅
HappyDaze ·
That's as rough as guts, Ian.......I hope that's not how you do a wheel alignment.👎
bajachris88 ·
haha, i did it on the baja recently like that... I didn't bother getting a pro job because i intent on taking it to the shops and will have it done there.
But... it worked wonders!
Gamaufmate ·
nah she aint runnin pos, its just the angle of the pic
Craig Torrens ·
👍
1303Steve ·
Hi
I'm pretty sure the Vintage disc kit doesn't widen your track, fitting one of those would have not caused all these issues and its engineered.
I like the Reliant Robyn comment earlier, watch Mr Bean to see how your car will handle with a narrowed beam.
Steve
Gamaufmate ·
well, i was told that drop spindles and disc brakes will widen the track (after i fitted them to my car) and it was fairly clear that it did, as the wheels were rubbing on the guards. I think the discs made the track wider by 17mm? something like that. Anyway, the tyres don't scrub now, so im happy. And as you can see from the pics, the narrowed beam isn't really THAT narrow... So the handling is still good.
matberry ·
The VVDS kit actually narrows the track by nearly 10mm I believe, but unfortunately does not fit dropped spindles.
Boozo ·
looks good man.
77dual ·
vwo60 wrote:Facts are quite simple, reducing the safety of the vehicle for the sake of appearance never ceases to amaze me, I am just dumb struck to see that people think it is OK to run a 8" narrowed beam with no shocks, you are just as likely to have that accident in any vehicle but increasing that chance by doing crap like that is ridiculous, Luftmeister, do you run a narrowed beam and are you insured.
Nobody said you had to like the modification matey!
I don't particularly like beetles with big chrome wheels on them but you don't see me commenting on every thread that contains an image of one....
DakDak67 ·
77dual wrote:
vwo60 wrote:Facts are quite simple, reducing the safety of the vehicle for the sake of appearance never ceases to amaze me, I am just dumb struck to see that people think it is OK to run a 8" narrowed beam with no shocks, you are just as likely to have that accident in any vehicle but increasing that chance by doing crap like that is ridiculous, Luftmeister, do you run a narrowed beam and are you insured.
Nobody said you had to like the modification matey!
I don't particularly like beetles with big chrome wheels on them but you don't see me commenting on every thread that contains an image of one....