Hi all, after droppping my 1700cc in my 62 and had done a few thousand miles i started to get a ping and a miss. So we Jumped on the fone and spoke to our mechanic and he asked us what fuel are we running we said the lead replacement and he said use shell optimax it more expensive but it gives you better acceration and beeter milage and now my car is running smoothly, of course this is a rebuild motor so check yours out before putting optimx in it.馃榾
vw54 路
yeah same with my old worn 1500, wont run on lead replacement but runs great on Optimax
Phil74Camper 路
Yes it has been said many times on this forum. VWs do not need Lead Replacement Petrol; the engines are designed for unleaded. Use normal unleaded on stock engines.
the shire bug 路
I have been told to use optimax with valvemaster additive. Do I need the additive. I am running a 1916cc
KruizinKombi 路
Since this topic was threshed out on the 'old forum', I have been using the Shell brand of 'Unleaded Super' in both my stock 1800 kombi and my wife's 1500 beetle and I noticed an immediate difference in drivability and performance. I have had some trouble trying to convince Heather to pay more for her petrol, but when I drive the car with the 'standard' stuff in the tank, I can immediately pick the difference. I have not calculated mileage figures yet though.
Green T4 路
So can I use Premium (95 RON) in my 1600 Type III Automatic, or does it have to be 98 RON?????
PS.....it is stock.....
SKEWtYpe3 路
my mech said something like....:
Use LRP or Remium Unleaded as standard unleaded's RON value changes between 90 RON and 94 RON on a good day so its no good for our cars. Premium and LRP are 94/95 RON and up and thats what our cars need. If you have an old car just add valve addative to the tank if you wish.
It makes sense and my car runs better, idles better and doesnt 'run on' like it used to.
Che Castro 路
yeah, my 1600 sp would ping lightly and run on like a bitch if i ran it on regular unleaded, mind u compression is only at a mild 7.2:1 which theoretically should be ok for regular. So much for theory....
i only run it on premium and it runs cooler, doesnt ping, doesnt run on. Also with premium unleaded from the major brands there is consistency in quality. I found that with regular unleaded sometimes u could get rat shit and other times u could get cow shit 馃檪
i run valvemaster on reccomendation from VVDS, only costs $13 to treat 250L so why not.
vwrallycar 路
hi all from what i have been told the lead replacement fuel leaves an enormous amount of carbon build up within your heads, so i use and recommend optimax
Bugdriver 路
Only Shell appears to quote the octane rating of their petrol now, I notice that Caltex has removed all reference from their bowsers.
The Shell standard unleaded is stated to be 92 or better, the lead replacement crap is 96 and Optimax is 98.
A standard 1200 or 1300 (& maybe 1500) should derive no benefit from anything other than standard unleaded.
With my 1600 I alternate between standard unleaded and Optimax, and fill the tank at the half full mark. There is a noticable pinging if only standard unleaded is used and it runs beautifully with the half & half method I employ. 馃檪
vanderaj 路
Shirebug:
Optimax has solvents for fuel injectors, so I would imagine you don't need anything to keep your valves going. I use Optimax in both Hoonbug and Mr Fasty with no troubles.
Andrew
70AutoStik 路
Well, I think everyone knows by now: LRP is crap and will clog your heads. It only exists so the fuel companies can milk people with cast-iron headed engines. Any VW that has been rebuilt properly in the last 25-30 years will run just fine on ULP - even standard with the advance set correctly. Optimax seems like overkill unless you have raised the compression to suit a radical cam; even a friend's 60's camaro runs fine on premium with a lead subtitute. I only use premium ULP because my stocker sits long times without being driven (we're currently separated-) it was running just fine on standard when I was driving it regularly - the premium seems to resist going "stale" a little better (and should help with the reduced CR when I add "carbie Cleaner" to freshen it up.)
[Edited on 9-10-2002 by 70AutoStik]
[Edited on 11-10-2002 by 70AutoStik]
volma1 路
No doubt about it premium is the way to go. I have a drip system(additive) in my 60 kombi 1200 6v and it runs fine but have noticed a remarkable improvement in all other vws using premium fuel. volma1
vwrallycar 路
yep you will see an improvement in both power and fuel economy using premium, even with a stock motor
Quickbug 路
Do you need to adjust your timing before using optimax?? I have a worked 1916cc but std heads...
amazer 路
Rather than quote what he said she said the mechanic said...
I tested optimax for 4 weeks in my mitsubishi lancer against regular unleaded. I didnt notice ANY power increase or ANY difference in mileage. And this from a car with electronics that should be able to take advantage of these things.
In every VW (other than turbo race car running 20psi boost) I have owned for the past 6 to 8 years I have used normal unleaded fuel with no problems whatsoever. I have occasionaly used optimax but have never gotten anything near a suspicion that I had noticable more power or economy.
I have pulled down an engine that ran exclusively optimax and it was cleaner than the day it was put together. That much is true.
Had a valve master guy come to club VW meeting last month. Showed his pretty powerpoint presentation on the screen with graphs of this n that, quoting all sorts of figures for old pommie cars but wouldnt say that it was any use to us even when asked the direct question. All he would say was "it couldnt hurt". Now if the guy trying to flog it wont say that a Volkswagen needs it... who the hell is!!! Wish you were there that night phil.
If you are worried go out to the shed. Do a valve adjustment. Run unleaded for a month. Check the valves. Still the same? well youve done your own research and now you can stop paying extra for fuel you dont need. If not then I stand corrected... go back to LRP with valvemaster.
The_Bronze. 路
Hmmmm.
Well last week and about $40 ago I swapped over from LRP to Optimax to give it a try.
Haven't really an opinion as such just yet cause the Dog need a carbi kit put in. I did notice a mild increase in responsiveness but that might have more to do with the extra 10psi that each tyre needed. Considering that yesterday they wanted 107.5c/l I doubt that I will become a loyal subject for long. Have been keeping a record so will last out for 8 tanks and see if theirs any significant variation with the last 8 tanks of LRP.
The Bronze.
70AutoStik 路
107.5c? That's regular around here!
On a more serious note, Bronze: If you read official VW literature, you will find your engine doesn't really need lead - and a bit of furthur research will quickly show you it certainly doesn't need LRP. You didn't say what CR you're running, so switch to premium - I seriously doubt you will miss any decrease in "responsiveness:" If you are not running your engine at Group A type revs, with a cam and heads to suit, Optimax is a bit of a waste. If you are running close to stock CR, try some standard ULP - at worse, you may need to back your timing off by 2-4 degrees (and I doubt you will notice any less power,) but if you have a 009 you may find it actually runs better!
OvalGlen 路
Bronze, when you posted this message your Posts Number was ..... 666.......
Not trying to tell us something eh..?:P
But in any case I look forward to your test results.
70AutoStik 路
Hey! What happened to the Bronze's message?
Quickbug 路
I put half a tank of Vortex in the bug this morning (was very very empty so very little LRP in there) and staright away noticed she idles smoother even with the big cam.
Havent noticed any change in power and will report back on fuel consumption...
Oh and i only paid 94.9 for Vortex....
vwrallycar 路
my 98 EL facon runs smoother and quicker while on optimax with better fuel consumption. work that out.
its all i use in my race car too
greedy51 路
after putting the blower on I started with shell and down in Caanberra I used Mobile and what a stink it just would not stop pinging so back to shell and no more problems 馃槑
vw54 路
70AutoStik
107.5c? That's regular around here!
Yeah thats price per litre not GALLON like in Washington.
the price here is approximatly $4.50 per GALLON
vanderaj 路
Actually, Dave, the US use 3.78 litres to a gallon, not 4.something like the UK. And then you divide it through you US price conversion.
Check out my "How to be an Aussie" page I use for my posts to New Beetle websites. It's got all the conversions you'll ever need.
Yeah thats price per litre not GALLON like in Washington.
the price here is approximatly $4.50 per GALLON
Hey Dave i think 70AS is up Broome way not the other side of the world!
If you have finshed swanning round the ski fields are you and Fil up to a beer soon?
70AutoStik 路
Yer right - Broome's a mere 6.5h drive from here (just down the road.)
I'm not saying optimax is no good (even if it was available around here - we only got premium earlier this year,) just that it's probably not worth the money unless you're running high CR and constantly pulling hard. For example: many drivers have reported that premium works out more economical than regular when they are pulling caravans or trailers over long distances - but it does depend on the vehicle and the ECU used.
bus914 路
here's some interesting comments on octane ratings.
OK 70AS where abouts are you. She is a wild place out there. I hitched uo the coast in 1982 and ......um....it was "interesting" to say the least!
Pulled into Millstream the night Bob Hawke got voted in (yeah yeah showing my age - i know!)
One blokes job was to swim the river with a full esky so you could get a drink during your dip!
70AutoStik 路
Hedland based - so yeah, further than the other side of the world! That's not too bad, remembering the night Bob got voted in - so long as you didn't stay drunk till he quit (as I suspect he did.)
As for the quiz on what oil to use - VWs, unlike a lot of other cars of that era, are happy with common multigrade oils. Many recommend against synthetics; Berg because they say they "resist heat," preventing the cooling from working properly, and many others have reported oil seal leaks soon after they switched to them.
68AutoBug 路
Yes , the US Gallon IS Smaller than the "normal" imperial Gallon... When is a gallon not a gallon?? When its 4 pints...imperial or US ??? Who knows...
I'm glad the litres and liters are the same... Well I hope they are..馃榾
Very interesting all the info on Premium Unleaded fuel... I tell everyone to use normal unleaded in their VWs... I prefer to use regular unleaded BOGAS in My Lancer , it has ethanol, made from wheat etc in it. The US government has made it compulsory - that all petrol sold in the US -Will have between 5 & 20% of ethenol made from sugar cane in it. I can't remember exactly the percentage. I do believe that Premium unleaded doesn't do any harm to engines, and does make some go much better. I haven't heard of Vortex fuel .... where is it from ??:o
I believe that LRP will disappear in the future... Very little is being sold.:P
68AutoBug 路
I have been using Castrol Magnatech engine oil in MY 2001 Lancer [16v] and it quietens the tappets etc noticebly after changing the Valvoline oil that the local dealer uses. [free service for 3 years] I am thinking about using it My 68autobug instead of Valvoline XLD, when I finally get it on the road.:o My Son is trying 30 grade Oil at the moment in His 1600tp Baja and it seems to be running cooler. I think He uses Penrite Oil...:o He IS thinking of trying Castrol Magnatech next time...:o
bus914 路
i've been using magnatec in my bus for over a year now (about 4 oil changes). no leaks no smoke, but no other noticable differences either. i guess the benefits or otherwise will become evident many years on.
Phil74Camper 路
Yeah Chris, I'm working on Thursday nights now so I haven't been able to get to Club Veedub meetings for ages. I miss 'em. I love sitting up the back and heckling the snake oil salesmen. The last one I remember was the one selling the in-line fuel cannister full of tin balls, which 'replaces' the lead in petrol !
I actually dropped my Kombi's compression down to 7.1 when I built it, and she runs beautifully on normal unleaded. It eats Hiaces and Urvans for breakfast. I tried one tank of LRP as an experiment, and noticed that the idle became unstable. Going back to ULP and the idle smoothed out again. I haven't tried Optimax yet but will do so if I can get it for under 95c a litre!
Phil74Camper 路
By the way, I do notice how much more it costs to fill the Kombi's 60-litre tank compared with my old Beetle's. When I first started uni back in '82, I could fill the Beetle's tank with a $10 note. I can't fill the Kombi for less than $50 nowadays!
Now as for gallons - Australia being a British colony used the British, or Imperial, gallon which was 277.4 cubic inches. It was made up of 4 Imperial quarts, or 8 Imperial pints, or 32 gills or 160 fluid ounces. The British parliament had standardised the gallon (and all other measurements too) with the Weights and Measures Act of 1824.
Now the US had been trading with Britain before then, when there were no defined measurement standards. Before 1824 the gallon was smaller, and when the Brits went to the larger standard 277.4 cubic inch gallon in 1824, the Yanks did not. They kept using the older and smaller 'Queen Anne' gallon of 231 cubic inches. The US gallon also divided into US pints and US quarts, but of course they are also smaller than UK pints and quarts.
In modern metric terms, a US gallon works out at 3.7854 litres, and an Imperial gallon is 4.546 litres.
Thank God for the metric system !
[Edited on 15-10-2002 by Phil74Camper]
KOM123 路
Hmmm...my Kombi fills are more around the $40 mark, does that mean our '76 camper has a non-standard tank?
70AutoStik 路
Phil - You've been at uni since '82 - isn't it about time you graduated?
As for the Shell claims from Flat4 - can you get them in writing? Seems like some easy money from a legal suit there - could make a lot of aussies richer!
Phil74Camper 路
(Chuckles) Oh I graduated all right, I just try not to act like it!
Nah I'm sure Kom's Kombi has a stock tank. I always seem to find I need to fill up on those days of the weeks when the price is higher, and thus pay more. If I'm lucky I can get a fill-up for $42-$45, but that doesn't seem very often.
Which day of the week is supposed to be cheapest in Sydney again? Is it Monday or Tuesday? If I can get Optimax for less than, say, 95c I will try it.
vanderaj 路
70AutoStik wrote:As for the Shell claims from Flat4 - can you get them in writing? Seems like some easy money from a legal suit there - could make a lot of aussies richer!
I keep fuel records for my Turbo Beetle which requires Premium or above. I always use Optimax - only one tank of Premium and two tanks of BP Ultimate. The premium I obtained in Orbost returned a country driving fuel economy of 8.03 litres per 100 km. The next tank was Optimax (which was under almost the same conditions) and I achieved 7.34 litres per 100 km.
Two tanks is not statistically significant, but I'm sold. Also, I achieve some of the best fuel economy figures of newbeetle.org's 1.8t fleet, even though I am a self-confessed lead foot. In over 40 tanks, I've yet to go above 9.3 l/100 km, which is way better than the 11 or 12 l/100 km some of them get.
Andrew
Quickbug 路
Fuel economy to me did not appear to be any better using vortex or optimax.... but then my engine is a preformance one so mayhaps stock engines are going to get the best results.
Edit---> Economy wise
[Edited on 18-10-2002 by Quickbug]
70AutoStik 路
vanderaj wrote:I keep fuel records for my Turbo Beetle which requires Premium or above. I always use Optimax - only one tank of Premium and two tanks of BP Ultimate. The premium I obtained in Orbost returned a country driving fuel economy of 8.03 litres per 100 km. The next tank was Optimax (which was under almost the same conditions) and I achieved 7.34 litres per 100 km.
"self-confessed leadfoot" and, I believe, a rather high compression ratio - I know I often warn people against too high a CR, but in a case such as yours (where you can get and afford optimax,) you will move the burn rate back into a range that you can tune to optimum performance. I still contend that optimax will not provide significant performance in a stock engine.
Two tanks is not statistically significant, but I'm sold.
Yes, it's not statistically accurate; but it does suggest it helped in your circumstances - maybe you should mention what you're running. I'm not trying to start a fight; I just don't believe some marketing hype (and optimax isn't available here - we only recently got premium.) 馃檪
vanderaj 路
70AutoStik wrote:
Yes, it's not statistically accurate; but it does suggest it helped in your circumstances - maybe you should mention what you're running.
Well, I have the 110 kW 1.8t AWW engine (the one with the K03/K04 turbo part, which is the detuned version of the 132 / 165 kW engine in the Audi A4 / S3 / TT). A simple chip gets me 132 kW, and chip + larger injectors + CAI + 0.8 bar FPR + bigger exhaust = 165 kW with no stress on the engine. Shame there's only 2 wheels to drive it through :-)
My engine's ECU has a complex fuel map, and all the bells and whistles for anti-pinging / emissions / VVT / etc, MAF (argh), O2 sensors, 20 V head, so it can definitely make use of better fuel when it sees it.