Hydraulic clutch

okay so have many people done a hydraulic conversion for the clutch.. Let's see some photos

I have been playing with measurements to fit a master cylinder in on early pedals and will hopefully get it all welded up during the week to cut the pan and weld it in.

It's super tight seeing as I'm trying not too modify the body at all😂

Jake

why you need to do that , what's wrong with cable ???
try asking the Buggys guys

good clutch upgrade:

Why?

ask the Buggy guys, some of them run hydraulic.
but we run stage 3 clutches and its just a mater of making the release lever longer and cheap to do .

Hi Jake,
In response to your question "HOW" not "WHY". You obviously have gone through the pros and cons and don't need to justify why you want a hydraulic clutch. I will be fitting one as well.
Here are a few photos of a particularly good setup I found online.

A few more

😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.
PS Bizarre and me are older and wiser that's why we would ask , why make things harder then they need to be, 😂
the question may be clearer when they explain why they want to do it. ????

ian.mezz wrote:😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.

You continue to amaze me with your level of ignorance and reluctance to think outside the square🤓

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.

You continue to amaze me with your level of ignorance and reluctance to think outside the square🤓

a fool and his money is easy parted .😂😂

Unless you have a really heavy clutch there's no need

you may want to do it for the exercise in engineering

The buggy guys do it as they get flex in the chassis

Fitting a later model longer clutch arm will help

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.

You continue to amaze me with your level of ignorance and reluctance to think outside the square🤓

you know that I have a Subaru powered beetle

ian.mezz wrote:

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.

You continue to amaze me with your level of ignorance and reluctance to think outside the square🤓

you know that I have a Subaru powered beetle

You mean " you're a bit of a dick - not your a bit of a dick"
Hey Ian we can stoop to name calling but that's not my style. When you have an opinion, you seem to be unwilling to listen to anyone else's - just an observation.

Well the clutch tube is shot and seeing as both option as equally as hard to fix I picked the one where you don't have to chop up as much of the structural part of the pan which is harder for me to fix as I'm no pro welder just yet. And seeing as I have a bare pan why not....I mean no car runs a clutch cable these days...it must have its benefits. It's more serviceable, I believe you get a better feel as it works both ways unlike a cable.

Plus I don't think that a longer arm is really a proper fix, I mean all your pedal travel to clutch movement would go out the window by putting a longer lever arm on. But hey if it works it works I spose, I just want to put in the hard yards now while it's not to hard.

Thanks for those photos btw karmann, at least I know what I have drawn up is on the right track

Exactly the same as I did on another car I built, later pedals are easier as the are fabricated and can be welded easily, as the early pedals are cast steel. use a master cylinder with a remote reservoir, as it will absorb water into the system through the vent hole when it is mounted next to the master cylinder.

Well the clutch tube is shot and seeing as both option as equally as hard to fix I picked the one where you don't have to chop up

OK so that makes sense

The later long arm makes it easier to push or a lighter pedal I have a Kennedy 1800lbs pressure plate and its much easier

Most new cars use hydraulics due to motor orientation and short distances


Great how to do pics as well

haha, those are my pedals! - got a smaller remote res master as that was purely for sizing / confirming theory. and it was done because I have a built box with hydro turbo subaru setup & will end up with a heavier clutch once all is said & done. why? because cable changes suck & why not? clutch feel can be changed by changing cylinder size as well as arm lenghts/pivot points.

Well done and well said. I could'nt remember where I copied the pics from (otherwise I would've given you the credit), but it looked like a good setup. Good to hear straight from from the source.

Hi

I did the same thing as Dave, I think we came came up with this solution together online, only I used Superbug M/C which has an angled mounting which allowed me to move the M/C further over. Im on my laptop at work at the moment so cant post pictures as there's none on it but there are some in my build thread.

Sometimes modifications that I and others do are about journey.

I bought a really nice hydraulic clutch setup at Moore Parts last year for a friend.

Steve

You can eliminate the throw out fork and arm by using a throw out bearing that goes over the input shaft, just have to find the correct height.

Check out my build thread, I put the master in the tunnel to eliminate having to move the brake master cylinder around, (i was getting the car engineered so didn't want those hassles) http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=102601 it's in the middle somewhere...!

The kit I got off Paul at Steelart, it was originally designed for a access hole to be cut in the tunnel, hence my reason for lengthening the pushrod to put it further forward into the frame head area. Didn't want to cut a hole in the tunnel.

Hi

This is the one I bought back states last year
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=cnc320b34&Store_Code=PC&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high=

the cnc kit is what i am using for mine, i bought the 3/4 bore in red.. ill pop up some photos once the new piece i made is installed. the parts are very good quality on first look i must say, i was impressed.

we drive bugs with over 300hp and a long arm works fine , its just one off of a newer model beetle , why change German engineering.
Its your time and money spend it how you like.
ian.mezz a member of the institute of automotive mechanical engineers for the last 30years
Nope will not see me thinking outside the square , Dick 😂

and look we had a 1970 bug we EFI & a computer


here is the driver 😊 of the green and red race/street car she only small, but has no trouble with those besky heavy VW clutches 😊
a clutch cable broke while at Canberra 1/2 hour on the side of the road and we were off again as we always carry a spare cable

aircooledjake wrote:Well the clutch tube is shot and seeing as both option as equally as hard to fix I picked the one where you don't have to chop up as much of the structural part of the pan which is harder for me to fix as I'm no pro welder just yet. And seeing as I have a bare pan why not....I mean no car runs a clutch cable these days...it must have its benefits. It's more serviceable, I believe you get a better feel as it works both ways unlike a cable.

Plus I don't think that a longer arm is really a proper fix, I mean all your pedal travel to clutch movement would go out the window by putting a longer lever arm on. But hey if it works it works I spose, I just want to put in the hard yards now while it's not to hard.

Thanks for those photos btw karmann, at least I know what I have drawn up is on the right track

we have a 1956 oval on a 1968 auto pan with no clutch tube at all and the cable works fine 😊the picture that I shared shows VW beetle parts, not no fancy after market stuff it just a newer lever off of a newer beetle it was a Volkswagen improvement .
Hope that you get its sorted and it don't end up sitting to long in the shed.😊

Each to there own, that's alright the you have had a good run with your standard set up but there is also nothing wrong with the hydraulic set up. it is even better if you eliminate the standard fork and throw out bearing.

I wasn’t going to waste my time responding to you Ian, but seeing as how this is the second time you’ve called me a ‘dick’, I feel I’m entitled to a right of reply.

What sort of a MORON are you that you just don’t get it ??? 🤓 – Jake has asked to see pictures of hydraulic clutch conversions – NOT which is better, hydraulic or cable. Why can’t you get it through your thick skull? No-one is arguing with you. A cable is fine but he doesn’t f_ _ _king want one.

When I spoke to you in Warwick, I lost count of the times you told me you were a mechanic – who are trying to convince? As for announcing that you’re a “member of the institute of automotive mechanical engineers for the last 30 years” – any monkey can be a member as long as you pay the annual fee. You would have been better off spending your annual membership fee on toilet paper.

Something tells me that karmann141 and ian.mezz dont really get along 🤓

But i do agree with Karmann141! 😊

"Jake has asked to see pictures of hydraulic clutch conversions – NOT which is better, hydraulic or cable."

karmann141 wrote:What sort of a MORON are you that you just don’t get it ??? 🤓 – Jake has asked to see pictures of hydraulic clutch conversions – NOT which is better, hydraulic or cable. Why can’t you get it through your thick skull? No-one is arguing with you. A cable is fine but he doesn’t f_ _ _king want one.

When I spoke to you in Warwick, I lost count of the times you told me you were a mechanic – who are trying to convince? As for announcing that you’re a “member of the institute of automotive mechanical engineers for the last 30 years” – any monkey can be a member as long as you pay the annual fee. You would have been better off spending your annual membership fee on toilet paper.

thank you karmann

haha oh well at least the thread is good for a laugh! my dad is a mechanic and part of iame, no major, just get little books telling you about the latest and greatest thats being released in my modern cars and bulletins on problems arising, they are a good read. i have worked with my dad for a good 6 years in the workshop and i have learnt there is definitely more to being called a mechanic then just oils and spark plugs changes and timing belt replacements.

now I'm studying mechanical engneering at uni currently.. I'm in third year and currently doing fluids course but also have completed kinematics and dynamics, and if you asked any engineer in the place on which is more effective and efficient they would take the hydraulics route everytime. from serviceability and repair point of view it is much more supirior...as i said previously, there must be a reason they always use hydraulics now.. and it aint due to engine being close to feet area.....considering that every super car/hypercar is mid/rear engine mount...and ill garentteee its a hydraulic setup proviso car is manual.

if you ask my opinion I'm surprised they haven't made the clutch servo controlled or something ridiculous like that, like a dsg.. that is if you know how the new 7 spd dry clutch works ian.mezz..

stop being ignorant that a cable is the best, because its not. sure it works and is cheap for back in the day...but with the technology we have in hydraulics and brake fluid now ill be betting on hydraulics getting the job done with a much higher efficiency while producing more feel and with less pedal play and less force needed

I have done the same conversion, If you use the same clutch set up with the hydraulic actuation it will still require the same amount of effort at the pedal to disengage the clutch, use a smaller master cylinder so it requires less effort and then you might not get the travel required, hydraulics is the way to go, but not using the standard throw out fork and bearing, use the throw out bearing that fits around the input shaft, very common on new vehicles, just an example. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MCLEOD-HYDRAULIC-THROW-OUT-BEARING-KIT-BOLT-ON-SUIT-TREMEC-5-SPEED-MC13645-/161272462146?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item258c967b42#ht_2861wt_867

vwo60 wrote:I have done the same conversion, If you use the same clutch set up with the hydraulic actuation it will still require the same amount of effort at the pedal to disengage the clutch, use a smaller master cylinder so it requires less effort and then you might not get the travel required, hydraulics is the way to go, but not using the standard throw out fork and bearing, use the throw out bearing that fits around the input shaft, very common on new vehicles, just an example. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MCLEOD-HYDRAULIC-THROW-OUT-BEARING-KIT-BOLT-ON-SUIT-TREMEC-5-SPEED-MC13645-/161272462146?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item258c967b42#ht_2861wt_867

ahh now i get what your talking about, concentric slave cylinder, yes could be a way to make the hydraulics application more effective for sure, just getting one that works may take awhile

here is the part i designed and made to weld in for the conversion at the pedals, fits a treat

a few more

Hi

The superbug m/c has an angled mount flange which would move bolt holes to a better location but what you've done looks good. I had a m/c mounted reservoiur for a little while on my car, it was a pain, I went back to a VW one located in the boot, I also teed of it to feed the clutch m/c.

Steve

Move the reservoir as Steve suggests, brake fluid is hydroscopic and will absorbed water through the breather hole, last thing you want, all mine have the reservoir in the boot. when I did mine I tig welded the holes up in the mount and drill new ones.

Neat work!

vwo60 wrote:Move the reservoir as Steve suggests, brake fluid is hydroscopic and will absorbed water through the breather hole, last thing you want, all mine have the reservoir in the boot. when I did mine I tig welded the holes up in the mount and drill new ones.

1303Steve wrote:Hi

The superbug m/c has an angled mount flange which would move bolt holes to a better location but what you've done looks good. I had a m/c mounted reservoiur for a little while on my car, it was a pain, I went back to a VW one located in the boot, I also teed of it to feed the clutch m/c.

Steve

i know that the brake fluid is hydroscopic and that it will absorb water easier there but its the fact that it is a lot neater down there and will make the boot a lot cleaner in the country buggy, is the breather in the lid?

i know most can't, but as dad has a workshop i can test the water content in the fluid and change it when needed. it will be done often anyway as i have an unlimited supply. and I'm not concerned with location for filling as we have a pressure bleeding machine that just screws on the lid to make it easy.
i know for most its not ideal at all and would be a pain, but for me it doesn't really matter

adlbeetle66 wrote:Neat work!

cheers! I'm really happy with it, would be quite a simple thing to install to if someone wanted to convert, no one has really offered a part that can weld in simply with out chopping and guesswork ever so i made my own.
only slight amount of grinding on the flanges to fit them beside each other

Very good job, a breather would work if the lids are tight enough. the water usually ends up in the calipers and wheel cylinders.

fitting the brake lines will be tricky, unless you're using 90deg fittings ?
-you forgot holes for the hardline to pass through for the rear if your using stock locations for the long line x2
besides that, don't forget to massage the body lip out of the way over your new brake MC location 👍

yeah thinking 90 fittings for it, just need to find some. and then re routing all the lines through the tunnel to clean up the floor.

and then the body lip yes, a little notch out of it should do the trick i hope

Bizarre wrote:Why?

I prefer the feel of cable but and a big BUT is the likelihood of breaking off the tube inside the tunnel when running a heavier clutch, even happens on standard ones given the age of the cars now.

reliability would be why I would like a hydo setup.

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.

You continue to amaze me with your level of ignorance and reluctance to think outside the square🤓

you know that I have a Subaru powered beetle

You mean " you're a bit of a dick - not your a bit of a dick"
Hey Ian we can stoop to name calling but that's not my style. When you have an opinion, you seem to be unwilling to listen to anyone else's - just an observation.

just ignore him. Don't waste your time .

vwo60 wrote:Move the reservoir as Steve suggests, brake fluid is hydroscopic and will absorbed water through the breather hole, last thing you want, all mine have the reservoir in the boot. when I did mine I tig welded the holes up in the mount and drill new ones.

good idea!

vlad01 wrote:

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.

You continue to amaze me with your level of ignorance and reluctance to think outside the square🤓

you know that I have a Subaru powered beetle

You mean " you're a bit of a dick - not your a bit of a dick"
Hey Ian we can stoop to name calling but that's not my style. When you have an opinion, you seem to be unwilling to listen to anyone else's - just an observation.

just ignore him. Don't waste your time .

BTW, whos the ''ignore'' going to? 😂🤪

ian.mezz wrote:we drive bugs with over 300hp and a long arm works fine , its just one off of a newer model beetle , why change German engineering.
Its your time and money spend it how you like.
ian.mezz a member of the institute of automotive mechanical engineers for the last 30years
Nope will not see me thinking outside the square , Dick 😂

why change German engineering? well it can be quite shit more than often.

A common saying I hear a lot of. 'whats wrong with it?" "its got German wiring 🙁 "

zing! 😂

adlbeetle66 wrote:

vlad01 wrote:

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:

karmann141 wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:😂🤪😂 looks tricky to top up the fluid 😂🤪 like I said ask some of the buggy owners they know their stuff.

You continue to amaze me with your level of ignorance and reluctance to think outside the square🤓

you know that I have a Subaru powered beetle

You mean " you're a bit of a dick - not your a bit of a dick"
Hey Ian we can stoop to name calling but that's not my style. When you have an opinion, you seem to be unwilling to listen to anyone else's - just an observation.

just ignore him. Don't waste your time .

BTW, whos the ''ignore'' going to? 😂🤪

telling karman to ignore ian obviously.

😁😂

Yeah, well ian.mezz hasn't come back yet

welded in the piece on the weekend, was happy with the fitment and outcome

Nice! keep it coming.