A year or so ago I replaced the EJ25 dohc engine that was in my 76 Bus. It had several problems. Head gasket failure was not a surprise . AM auto guys also said it has bottom end troubles (what exactly I dont know) but it blew blue smoke and shook and rattled a bit.
I am thinking of having a go at a rebuild myself. Whilst no mechanic I have learnt a real lot having completed my EJ 22 Into 71 kombi project.
My approach would be to pull it apart and see if it is worth rebuilding. what parts do I need to get inspected and measured ? Is it just the case
has anyone been down this road before?
I have the motor on a stand all ready to be pulled apart.
Any advice is welcome
rocknrob ·
mate subaru engines muliply just the way vw,s did...if you need a good engine just find one on ebay...if you want to play with engines(like me) go ahead and rebuild it but its not cheap...quite happy with my foresterGT in my kombi but rebuilding an EJ25 for later on...in other words i'm no help!
Sunnyjim ·
Rob
you are right about the multiplying !
I bought a good 2nd hand EJ25 dohc engine from a reputed source installed it and guess what ? this low Km Engine soon had a head gasket issue!
But of course as it took me 6 months to get it installed I have no recourse
So l thought why not give it ago myself !
1303Steve ·
Ive seen a few pulled apart, they dont look that hard
Sunnyjim ·
STEVE
I will it a go but some good advice I got so far was NOT to buy any parts until I have it fully apart and know exactly what can be reused and what needs to be rerplaced.
Sunnyjim ·
good going so far
having the engine on a stand makes it easy to work with
the manifold and wiring haress came off easy via 8 bolts.
The po used to live on a farm so lots of dirt and stones sitting on top.
i see a lot of dried oil around the oil pump.
something else quite significant. the small pipe coming off the coolant was very rusty and just snapped when i touched it. i wonder if this contributed to HG failure
rocknrob ·
it all fits together Jim..not enough or the right coolant to prevent corrosion...galvanic action aluminium and steel will dissolve each other...if they were running straight water in it look out for major corrosion! heads and block will need machining at the least i would say!
lou0060 ·
hi Jim, good project. I'm a bit both ways, (carter shut up!) but when I blew my EJ20 up in the racecar, spun conrod bearing, I pulled it down and found the crank journal damaged so ended up buying another 2nd hand engine for $400! has been pushed to the limit this year and not missing a beat. Just lucky I guess...
The rebuild is pretty straight forward. If you google subi engine rebuild there is one particular guy who goes thru the rebuild on the floor of his driveway! But he is great valve and worth watching.
And yes, don't buy anything till you have it apart and then see what you need and what your budget is. Ny the looks you'll need a full timing kit with idlers adjuster etc a new crankcase seal, in fact a whole seal kit, maybe a new oil pump and water pump, some new water pipes and hoses, new head bolts and a skim and maybe valves but they tend to be not too bad. How many KM the engine has done will play a part as well. And new bearing and rings obviously..... it will all add up!
some info of what i did on my thread... good luck with it.
Sunnyjim ·
lou
Thanks for the comments. it all helps.
i have found a few good youtubes. a picture is worth thousand words.
i don't know how many kms on this old donk but as the conversion was done over 7 years ago could be up close to 300k.
i am wondering where to buy a good overhaul kit. This is the most complete one i have seen so far.
the other thing i want to make sure i understand and get right is the actual gasket itself.
i have heard new ones are a real improvement on originals.
rocknrob ·
Jim get a head gasket with metal in it like 'cometic'...any turbo suby has metal gaskets..the others are cardboard i think!
lolight70 ·
Its a quad cam not a dual cam
afaik they only came out in oz in the early gen2 liberties and outbacks
(94-97),they did have head gasket issues
Sunnyjim ·
lowie you are right. It is a quad cam ej25 dohc 96 to 99 model.
i noticed a real brown corrosion crud in the coolant channels.
Is that normal? or a sign of neglect?
got one off the heads off as well. it already had the steel type gasket and i could not see any obvious problem
what about all this black stuff on the valves?
Subarugears ·
lolight70 wrote:Its a quad cam not a dual cam
afaik they only came out in oz in the early gen2 liberties and outbacks
(94-97),they did have head gasket issues
Yeah and that car that maybe a few people have heard of...a few million sold... the WRX
1303Steve ·
Be really careful with the cams on the left side of the motor or right side in VW, the wheels can spin easily and bend valves, I bought a special tool lock them in place but my cam wheels have an Allen head bolt holding them on, maybe you can get on for your motor with a hex head
Sunnyjim ·
hi steve
not sure i fully understand.
i have taken the timing belt and rollers off . as this is a ej25 dohc a couple of the head bolts are under the camshaft. i removed the camshaft to get to the head bolts. Then i reinstalled the camshaft just to keep it all together.
also does the corrosion look normal to you?
is the black carbon on the valves normal?
1303Steve ·
Just be careful which way you turn the cam wheels, turn them the wrong way and vales will hit.
Heads look fairly normal and the corrosion will clean up with a chemical bath
Sunnyjim ·
steve
ok thanks for the heads up
Sunnyjim ·
i had to take off cam gear to get to the head bolts
the head gaskets have been replaced already as these are the steel gaskets. i could not see much wrong other than a lot of carbon on the pistons and valves but then again i don't have much experience looking at engine internals.
so soon i can take out pistons and crank then split the block
lou0060 ·
looking good so far.
there's a trick to getting those pistons out, not like a VW motor.
keep posting photos this should be a good thread.
Sunnyjim ·
lou
yep i will keep posting. i am a bit of a dummy but with feedback i learn quick😃
next challenge a couple of stubborn head bolts look corroded inside the water jackets
for the time being i have them soaking in wd40
chellejohno ·
Hey Paul,
Glad your doing this, I'll be watching with interest. I was thinking of doing the same, but didn't no whether it was viable or better off just buying second handees whenever I wear one out.
Are you heading down to old bar this weekend
Cheers Johno
Sunnyjim ·
Johhno
no can't make old bar
the reason i am doing this build is that i really need to learn more
i bought a low km jap import engine. got it installed . Whilst i am convinced it is strong with n o smoke ir rattles it also has a head gasket problem. i can't drive it further than about 20kms.
i had no recourse as it took me to long to get it instated
i just can't afford to pay someone so need to bite the bullet and learn myself.
You are welcome to venture over the south side and have a look.
Sunnyjim ·
Even though i suspect i should send the block away for some chemical clean in the future. I have spent a few hours and got the outside relatively clean.
i am ready to separate the case. I have succeeded in loosening many of the case bolts but there are 6 inside the case water jackets(2 on the water pump side, 4 on the other) that look to me severely corroded. they are deep down but the 12 point 12mm socket does not grip but spins. i have scraped away a lot of rust on the bolts but i cannot see the 12 point edge that i would on normal new bolts. I assume all case bolts are the same size but i can't see that confirmation anywhere. i will try to see if i can get 11mm on it but don't hold much hope.
so if we conclude 6 rusty head bolts what is the next step? it looks to me a tough job to drill and easyout them.
as usual good advice welcome.
Sunnyjim ·
So the situation is.... i can't split the ej25 case. seems to me the case bolts have been corroded and diameter reduced. The 12mm 12 star socket spins around.
Any good ideas?
lou0060 ·
hi Jim, doesn't sound good.
From memory all the bolts are the same size.
you can buy a special bolt remover that should get them off. I'll have a look to see if I can find the brand name. They are USA made so good quality.
would be a pity if this stopped you.
Sunnyjim ·
lou that would be much appreciated. i have also just been spraying them with wd40 in the hope that a few weeks of soaking might help once i find a way to grip them.
Do you know if there is anything better than wd40?
1303Steve ·
Not sure if this will work or not, accurately find the centre of the bolt heads and drill the heads off and then deal with whats left over when the case is apart
lou0060 ·
try this;
Irwin make them as well
WD40 is as good as anything else on the market. Problem here is that it needs to go all the way down to the threads which is difficult in this setup.
Sunnyjim ·
lou
yep got a set at bunnings.
still won't grip.
i realised the original case bolt is a 12 point but these c bolt extractors look like 6 point.
1303Steve ·
Try some Gibbs brand instead of WD40
Sunnyjim ·
steve
sorry i missed your earlier suggestion to get rid of the heads of the bolts.
I can get the external case bolts off but there are 6 inside the water jackets and a couple of inches down. I cant get a wrench onto it only can gt a socket onto it
Yesterday I went and bought a can of stuff designed to loosen bolts but the real issue is I can't find a way to grip the heads of the rounded off bolts.
I am now wondering if a professional engine rebuilder shop might have a special way to solve this ?
rocknrob ·
Jim i admire your tenacity...your heading is hairbrain or masterstroke...i think you can rule out masterstroke...but if you keep going you are entertaining...and not knocking you...i currently have five subaru engines at my place and four kombi/subaru gearboxes and one subaru gears kit
1303Steve ·
Once you cut the heads off the case should come apart I think, the bolts need to be replaced anyway, just mark the centre and drill the heads off
Sunnyjim ·
rocknrob
as you can see this is all about learning for me. i an not a mechanic i have had many sleepless nights worried about the complexities of the internal combustion engine. (nah not really ).
You should be proud of your collection especially if some of them are working.
Steve
i started today to drill the heads out of the case bolts. Do you think it will pop apart or i will need to use some type of force?
i Could try a car Jack.
lou0060 ·
yep, it will be tight. a car jack worked for me when I split mine last year. Also there are a couple of sneaky bolts, small M8's I think that will catch you up if you don't undo them as well. You might have already found them but worth mentioning just in case.
Sunnyjim ·
on the weekend I started drilling out the heads of the case bolts. It is tough going
I was also able to remove all 4 pistons. I cannot see any major damage but will post a piccy for all to see and comment on soon
Sunnyjim ·
still can't crack the case but none the less moving forward. i got all 4 pistons out. The rollers or pins look in good condition so do all 4 pistons. all have black burn marks on them as i guess is to be expected.
Sunnyjim ·
hi all
been a while so i think i need to bring closure on this thread.
in the end i took the car to a mate who had a big arse garage with real tools in there. ( not my pissy supercheap aldi collection ) We used a drill press to get rid of the head bolts. ot was real tough going. harder then expected
still the case would not split. frustration set in. It led to brute force which led to me stripping some threads.
now one useless ej25dohc case now stares back at me..
so i think this is the end of this project.
pete wood ·
You can fix those thread easily enough. Patience and time.
To be honest though, I'd sooner buy a low milage 2nd handie when it comes to Subarus.
Sunnyjim ·
G'day Pete
thanks for the comment
as i have not stripped the thread but broken the metal around it i assumed the case weep would need to be welded then a new thread put in.
i also wanted to just get a good 2nd hand ej25dohc. but i did that and failed.
i went to a jap engine importer and got a supposed less than 100k donk. got it installed and low and behold it also has a head gasket issue. it however seems very strong no smoke or rattles
so i was thinking to just get the HG done on the engine already in my kombi so it is driveable. i was then going to take my time and redo the original engine now sitting on my shed floor.
i will post a pic soon of the damage and appreciate your advice.
Sunnyjim ·
G'day Pete
see the picture below. You see i have broken metal not just stripped the thread. i got to heavy handed trying to split the case.
i assumed i would need to weld the case . I am not sure if that is Viable or not.
whadya reckon?
coletrickle ·
You planning on re using your rods and pistons? I've got a new set of both.
Sunnyjim ·
hi Cole
thanks for the offer. i will keep it in mind.
i am not yet sure but was thinking of getting a complete kit
Sunnyjim ·
i have picked up another ej25 dohc engine.
not yet sure of its' history . i will do some work to see if it makes sense to rebuild.