OK in a month or so I'm looking at starting to have Bel worked completely over, and I am in Melbourne remember 馃檪
What order do you work in when getting things done?
She will be staying 36hp and 6 volt
Have working semaphores to go back in her and it seems wiring may have been taken out (?) but guess I will find out when work starts properly on her.
Possible rewire as people have commented on some strange wiring up front
Want her front end overhauled and back checked and worked on where needed
All rubbers replaced, new headlining and painted. Chrome work done
Do not want to go to best of the best as not after pristine show standard but a good standard of work non the less
Have a very good mechanic already:thumb
So do I get all the mechanical stuff and wiring done first, then paint, rubbers and last head lining? Chrome work done while being painted I would imagine
Some extra accessories like reversing light would go last
Carpets and seat belts done at body shop I would imagine
Upholstery done and door trims being worked on馃槑
Also who does the semaphores the auto electrician or the painter/body shop?
What order do you all work in?
A properly fitted rag top would be good also.
Just got my new WCM catalog and can gather bits as needed
Thank you!!!:sandrine
[Edited on 30-9-2003 by jenz58]
jenz58 路
Just noticed in the catalog that they don't have rag top hardware for a '58, only for '64 - '77馃檨
Does anyone have it, is it reproduced by anyone?
They do have the canvass covers for a '58
Bizarre 路
Jenz
Call me a philistine but WHY would you stay 6 volt????
Safety
comfort
ease of starting
wipers that will work when your head lights are on??
Sorry - when you are spending money i can see no reason to stay original and for go the afore mentioned :jesus
As for order
Mech work first - paint over spray
Spray first - scratched paint
If you really have a good mechanic who wont scratch the car do the paint first every thing else is clean on the top.
Spoils it when you see a new wiring loom with paint all over it
What ever you do go 12 volt
:thumb
jenz58 路
OK everyone tells me this, so it is a possibility (?)
You can get 'something' to stop the semaphores melting out can't you when your running 12 volt. Some sort of damper thingy *embarrassed look*
So wiring after paint by the sounds of it:thumb
Bizarre 路
Yes you can get "something"
Quick lesson
Volts (V) = Amps (I) X Resitance (R)
Power (P) = Amps x Amps x Resitance (I2R)
or
= Volts x Amps (VI)
If you want to keep the power rating the same you need 1/2 the amps if you double the volts
To halve the Amps you need to double the resistance
You "just" need to put the right resistance in there
jenz58 路
Hmmm, hope I find a good auto electrician馃檪
I'm not dumb, just incapable :jesus
Read my manuals and know something can be done
Now I'm getting very close to moving on this i'll be reading harder to learn about what needs to be done and why
Cheers
Grey 57 路
I agree with Blue , Jen. 12 volts the only way to go if you plan on a user and not a show car.
Mechanical first, then paint if you are not going to do a full bore rebuild on the whole car.
I know I am a Philistine but leave the semaphores for shows too. Put em in with no wiring or cover the holes with semaphore replacers.
The (really nice) pair out of my oval are sitting safely in the draw.
jenz58 路
Dean we need to talk馃檪
It is to the stage where I really need to make decisions cos I want stuff done soon.
OK who wants to sit around and talk VW stuff?????
Cos I want to make a final decision sorta finally:o
No bull shit:thumb
OK, I keep hearing 12 volt, so tell me馃檪
One down......
I'm 100% serious here. Bel is my main project and girl:kiss
OK I've been sitting 'quietly' but learning a little along the way馃槈
jenz58 路
OK, someone as to why 6 volt???? Just so I have something to consider馃檪
This is my girl that I'm gunna put under the blade馃檨
[Edited on 30-9-2003 by jenz58]
whatnow 路
the only reason i can see for staying 6V is you don't have to spend any money. having driven 6V cars and cars converted to 12V, i'd say go 12V it's alot nicer.
it would be best to fit the headliner and rubbers at the same time as the headliner sits under the rubbers. also in most early cars the headliner is sewn to the trim around the rear 1/4 windows so if you want to be picky about it this trim bit should be fitted at the same time as the headliner.
don't forget that WCM is a US company, ie LHD, ie wiring harnesses are the wrong length for RHD cars. if you get a wiring loom made or are making it yourself, you should think about wether you want to add the wires for the reversing light etc to the loom or run them seperately.
i'm not sure what you mean by sunroof hardware, but i bought a WCM roller repair kit for my 63 ragtop a few years ago.
i hope this helps.
[Edited on 30-9-2003 by whatnow]
68AutoBug 路
Sounds like You are going to spend some serious money Jen.
Can't someone (fellow VW owner) rewire Your car for You... the early ones are simple... the after 1968> ones are a headache... You could rewire the semaphores - correction "trafficators" is Aussie -( semaphores is USA talk and their Beetles didn't even have them..!!!)
remember Jen, nothing is Impossible... just a bit harder... 12 volt is the way to go and I priced the changeover in an earlier posting... Auto Electricians charge too much... especially when its not a difficult job.. time consuming.. but not hard. When making up the wiring loom Jenz have it made from slightly larger wire than the original.. its readily available from Dick Smiths etc. Imagine Having one of those new fangled 12v CD or tape players Jen ..!!
Headlights that can dazzle... extra fast wipers... Resistors are the things that are used with 6v items to use with 12 volts. The window rubbers can go in any time After the hoodlining... the hoodlining is glued around the windows etc...
12 volts and 1600cc is the way to go...
Brrrrmmmm.. Beep Beep...
You seem to have to order of restoration OK.. Lee
jenz58 路
I think asking a friend to do wiring or any of this would be 'a very big ask' and one I don't want to do.
So does anyone make a RHD wiring loom?
Grey 57 路
happy to talk to you anytime Jen.
I reckon the biggest descision with any of this is to set a $$$ budget and determine what you intend to do with the car at the end. Type of use. Show car, everyday transport , somewhere in the middle.
Really easy to spend 10 to 15k on a full rebuild of an early beetle. When you can spend 8 to 10 (or less) on buying one thats already been done. Something to consider. Depends on the emotional attachment to the vehicle.
Unity-28 路
Jen, I need a Rag top for MIne aswell, I will be getting it from CIP1 in the states or Wulfsburg west. They do make them for 58's.
N!
blompod 路
there is a place in Sydney I think, that does looms for early vws, vintage wiring harneses I think its called. they were about the 350 dollar mark for a new loom.
silver 路
Hey I didn't think 58's had semaphores? but a lens where the semaphores were. I could be wrong but I had a 58 and there were no Semaphores!
68AutoBug 路
Trafficators (semaphores in the US where they were not sold) were on early beetles up to the middle of 1960.
late 1960s & 1961 model Beetles had the very rare - Australia & italy only - Hella tail lamps. 50% Amber 50% Red... slightly smaller than the 1962-68 tail lamps.
I believe that $350 is too expensive for the wiring loom... (even though it is much cheaper than those available in the US)
The wire itself shouldn't cost any more than around $80... the colours wouldn't be correct though... the original wires in the Beetle were too small for 6 volts of pressure.. Voltage drop was a large problem... An 8 volt Battery would help the situation.. but alas, these are no longer available.... they were made in Newcastle NSW during the 60s..
Lee
68AutoBug 路
Silver,
the amber lenses You mention, were an aftermarket accessory by Hella, which took the place of the trafficators, and were connected to a blinker unit, which meant they flashed when the blinker-trafficator arm was used... I have a good pair of these.. I collected over 30 years ago. never been on a car.
Lee
68AutoBug 路
Jen
If You are persistant in staying with 6 volts ,replace Your 6 volt battery with an Extra Heavy one, or add another the same size that You have and put it in the opposite position under the seat. Have them Wired in Parallel so You still have 6 volts.. but PLENTY of Amperage... replace the wiring with heavier than normal VW size wire and You shouldn't have any problems..
The heavier wiring will stop the voltage drop, so You should have around 6 volts at the end of the cables and plenty of amperage.. so no flat batteries.... and still 6 volts... If You are staying 36HP then I don't see the reasoning to change to 12v. More to think about Jen.. Sorry.
Lee
[Edited on 1-10-2003 by 68AutoBug]
68AutoBug 路
Jen,
All You need is plenty of trust, lots of pixie dust and plenty of Money....
talk to all Your VW Friends in Melbourne Jen, one should know an inexpensive but excellent spray painter... one should know a friendly upholsterer ... etc and help save You some of your Hard erned cash.... Lee
:sandrine
helbus 路
I have restored quite a few show cars and I always do the body work first, then while the vehicle is in putty I get the mechanical work finished off.
Then with a spraypainter that has a bit of a concience, you will get no overspray on your looms or mechanicals.
It only takes about two hours extra to seal the bottom of a car properly for a respray.
Been there done that.
Definitley body work
Then mechanical
Then paint
Then final assembly
jenz58 路
Thanks guys. Out with a girlfriend tonight and so too tired to read this right now.
Dean
not show car quality:thumb
alternate daily driver:kiss
don't want to buy other beetle, love Bel:sandrine
Talk sometime would be good馃槑
HotRodMatt 路
"I know I am a Philistine but leave the semaphores for shows too. Put em in with no wiring or cover the holes with semaphore replacers.
The (really nice) pair out of my oval are sitting safely in the draw."
It's the replacements that should be in the drawer!
jenz58 路
OK so why not have the semaphores wokring or in?
Do passerby damage them sometimes or nick them???
So maybe elephant ears instead?
SKEWtYpe3 路
elephant ears screw into the pillar and ruin it if u are going to take them off and on and off..............
one or the other...
Jen why do u want a rag top cover, bel isnt convertable !
do u mean headliner?
a rewire could easily cost into the 000's
:bounce
jenz58 路
Well I may not do a rewire but some wiring. Need to get someone to look
I know she's not a convertable
I'm talking sunroof if isn't not going to send me bust, and I can be guarenteed it's not going to leak
If she goes 12 volt she's not going to be original anyway so may as well do a couple of things that I think would be cool without destroying the period look
Unity-28 路
Jeez Skew, you know that Early Sunroofs are Vinyl dont you? LOL 馃榾
N!
amazer 路
Jen! Why are you talking to all the heathens about 12V. Bel has been driving around for 45 years on 6 volts and now its inadequate? After all that whole "jenny's gennie" saga surely you dont want to change now?
Is it possible to put a 12 volt generator on a 36hp generator stand?
If you need to play CD's then there are some good walkmans out there that play mp3's and will cost less than a 12v conversion and CD player. Hmm spose Bob cant listen in then.
jenz58 路
It is possible to convert without a rewire and stay 36hp etc
I was told by someone that Bels brake lights are hard to see in daylight
If you read earlier on I'm am not 100% onb the 12 volt and not getting anything done tomorrow
I am not able to do things myself and can't always be calling for help
In a few weeks I can start getting her right while there are funds but do not want to be wasting money
My whole life is not VW'S but at the moment it may seem that
My aim is to keep Bel on the road and in as good a condition as I can.
I don't have the time or money to be playing games here
p.s. I don't care if I have or don't have a stereo in her, we can do without that don't have one now
p.p.s. sorry guys I'm feeling a little testy lately
Bel has had things done before I got her to make her non original. I do not want to majourly modify her but if going 12 volt now is going to save a headache later then I'll go that way. She is going to be driven often not just for events
[Edited on 2-10-2003 by jenz58]:thumb
[Edited on 2-10-2003 by jenz58]
jenz58 路
Look at this, a nice '58:kiss
Sunroof and with pop-out windows:o
Back to reality now
SKEWtYpe3 路
i am with you now on the ragtop bit....i must of been somewhere else in the head 馃檪 but i am way confused Jen, u are prepared to cut a whole in the roof for a aftermarket ragtop but not go 12volt because 12volt isnt ridgy didge....?
Grey 57 路
Thats a real nice 58 Jen.
No need to re-wire for 12volts if the wires are ok. The semaphore wires are separate from the rest of the wiring loom anyways. I can show you were they go on my 57.
Re the Semaphores - Just my personal opinion! I dont have them fitted to my oval because of safety. The Hella things are seen by other road users and it stops them running up my arse. Good enough for me.
The brake lights being dim - this could be that the reflectors inside the lights are corroded. Clean up and or rechrome will fix that right up. A nice alloy billet high stop brake light will solve that problem too.
Changes to the VW - change all the mechanicals for reliabilty and safety. Running cost will be lower. Early brake parts are getting hard to find and exy. Dailey driver right. Easy to change back to stock if you keep all the old bits.
Body - keep stock and cherry it out. Remove dents repair rust.
Golde Sunroof is a good idea nice assesory and adds value. But they do leak a little and they are not that secure.
Unity-28 路
Hey Jen Thats Jays RHD 58 from the Germanfolks. Damn Sweet Ride. You can put a 12v generator on a 36 hp stand, either rewire it, or put a porsche one on.
N!
Jay_1965vw 路
Jen - my vote is keep Bels roof as is. You will never get a sun roof that doesn't leak sometime or another.
My two cents 馃槈
jenz58 路
Don't worry Jay Bel is not going to be chopped unless I can be so sure she's not going to leak:thumb
Dean thanks as always馃檪
Hmmm, chopped is probably the wrong word:jesus
Cut into is better.
Love the look and would love a ragtop but not doing it if not done very, very well
If it can't be done well, then not doing. Simple
[Edited on 3-10-2003 by jenz58]
68AutoBug 路
And where may I ask are You going to get a Porsche 356 or 912 12 Volt Generator?
and if You find one.... who is going to pay that much money for something with PORSCHE stamped on it...
Porsche means $$$$$$$...
Have You decided on 6v or 12 V Jen...
Lee
oval TOFU 路
Hey jen
Apparently, you can get a gennie recreated with holden bits... Bill Malkoutzis from the VW Club of VIC told me this... give him a call.. i'm sure he'll be happy to explain things to a fellow vw nut.
jenz58 路
12 volt seems to be the go.
Thank for the tips:thumb
Grey 57 路
Thats cool Jen.
Tofu thanks for the tip on the gennies. I'll have a talk to Bill at the next club meet.
Hows the oval going mate!
68AutoBug 路
The original tail lamps Jen had a chrome backing for a reflector so they were very bright originally. Most of the reflective material disappears over time... also if dust has entered the lamp over time... the insides could be very dirty,,, thus stopping light... it needs to be taken off and washed in Car wash - the glass tail lamp is not smooth inside and catches dust- this should help... also clean up the light bulb contacts and make sure all the copper contacts are nice and clean.. a points file (under $2) is good for this... make sure the earth connection is good also... very important... You may only have 4-5 volts getting to Your tail lamps..
Its a shame I don't live in Melbourne Jen I could do this for You... use slightly larger (than the original) self tapping screws for the earth screw.. this cleans up the existing hole.. better connection.. more voltage,,,
cheers Lee
jenz58 路
Well I need new bulb light holders for the tail lights as the ones I've got are no good馃檨
Unity-28 路
Jen If you want a Sunroof, You need to find an Original section, and get it grafted in. If you like I can ask a few ppl who have one it. The original sunroofs really dont leak.
N!
jenz58 路
N that would be cool if you could ask around for me馃檪
oval TOFU 路
grafting huh? ouch! i'm actually amazed that ppl aren't laying into you for cutting up (sorry jen, 'shaving')a 50's beetle! all the more reason for using a genuine SR i suppose... I'd love to have a ragtop... i'd prolly get ridiculed for slicing my oval's roof though...
jenz58 路
I know it's a sin but it would be very cool if done well
She does have a perfect roof so guess it is a sin馃檨
amazer 路
I dont think thats so bad. I assume 58's came with the optional sunroof. look on it as rescuing a nice sunroof.
Next nambucca I can score a lift with you on the convoy into town. I can stand up through the roof and flash my man boobs.
jenz58 路
Does Bucca really want that??? Do I???:o LOL
Well I figure the ragtop was an optional extra as well馃檪
Mind you with Melbournes weather I woulder about my sanity:jesus
Though if I become a Mexican I can find the right climate somewhere:thumb
amazer 路
come on mate. you know you want it.馃槑
hope there arent any rednecks sitting on the porch with their shotgun.
jenz58 路
I know I want to but were do I get a decent one, and then have it fitted?