What fuel?

When lead petrol was taken out of servos, i was told that LRP would be ok to use in my bug. But i also got told that i should use unleaded and put a dash of 'engine lubricant', or something along those lines instead of LRP. Would using LRP cause any problems? Or doenst it matter?

Cheers
Meeks

Welcome!

Do a seach - this has been covered

Basically the answer is

NO LRP! - it craps up the plugs

ALL post 1967 VW's had hardened valve seats and is ok to use unleaded
I have been for about 4 years now with no illeffects
If over 8:1 compression use PULP other wise just standard

http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=4039

http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2128

here are 2 of the debates

Click on search and type "LRP" into topic and do a search under "Tech Talk"

I have been in contact with Indian Automotive on this issue.

They have done a test on the LRP vs PULP issue.

They ran two VW's. One on ULP and one on PULP. After pulling the motors down and testing components they have found PULP to be better petrol for air cooled VW's.

They now only use PULP in all theur air cooled cars.

If it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.

Baz: Just read your old thread....
Don't take my VW off me cos' I've been using LRP every since I bought it back in May!! Stupid hah? I've been told by the previous owner that I HAVE TO use LRP😠

on a more serious note tho....
do i have to empty my tank full of LRP before I change over to ULP or PULP??

Ron

Ronstar, just start using PULP, BP Ultimate is the best...its the cleanest fuel in australia for you're car and the environment...

LRP will not be available after Dec 04 and some servos will lose it by Dec this year...

wow, I can't believe I stayed out of one of those posts, what restraint 🙂

I'll agree BP Ultimate is the best PULP. I mostly ran it in my 1915 vw motor, and I usually run it in my V6.

When I was in the middle of nowhere and couldn't find PULP I went for LRP because it has a better octane than ULP. I would then notice the carbs would run worse on the LRP.

Then if I couldn't get LRP either I would buy ULP and notice knocking problems instead.

PS - keep this thread clean, no theoretical/technical dribble please, the other 2 posts are already full of it. Just facts and experiences thanks.

i would have to agree with the others. i use PULP in my 74 bus and have had no problems so far (touch wood)!!

I was using LRP in the 2.0 Kombi until I found the info in this forum.

Changing to ULP significantly cleaned up ther smoothness of running.

Running ULP I notice some slight pinging when I don't shift down to third on steep hills early enough.

The other factor is brand. I only buy fuel from major brands and by preference from a brand which has a refinery in this state; in practice that means I buy Shell.

On the odd ocassion when I've used fuel from a distributor or independent-brand ss, it has been noticable; I don't know if it is being extended with ethanol or what, but Dokla doesn't like it.

hth

well i have been running caltex ulp i the vw's for a few years now. not a prob. i had a few issues using shell and found it not as good.
saying that though, in the trumpet i use bp pulp. and i think this is what i will be using for the new motor in the split.

dont buy woolworths petrol it is crap!!! its imported from singapore already refined and ready to go so it is shit!!
cheers
rhys
p.s. i work for woolworths!

Use Shell Optimax.... NO problems since ive been using it.

The dirt bike boys reckon optimax fouls the spark plugs quicker. Some guys I have spoken to said optimax has too many additives that foul up the engine (seems to agree with the dirt bike boys). Other friends say optimax doesn't run as smooth and gives worse fuel economy.

But personally I have noticed my engines run fine on optimax or ultimate. I don't pay enough attention to notice any economy differences. I usually get ultimate when possible though.

I've pulled down an engine run solely on optimax and it was like new. I dont know how it could foul plugs. Maybe a 2 stroke thing?

I brought fuel from matilda as the kombi was almost empty and it was the closest servo. The kombi ran like a piece of shit after that. :cry

When I refilled at caltex a week later the Kombi ran like a dream:thumb

I no longer go to Matilda or any other servos and just stick to the local caltex😀

Jax have reco'd some heads with dodgy seats. The ones with good seats have ULP stamped on them (which you wont see unless the engine is apart) The ones I am using do not, so I will be using some sort of additive.

I had a chat to mick(mickmotors)and he told me to use PULP with a squert of motor oil in the fill.he said he didn't like what he was see when they pulled down motors that ran on LRP. that was about 12 month ago and I'm happy with mine:thumb

a group of us were using optimax in the bikes. all were told our plugs were blackened/etc. after talking to some other bikers... road/fast types. BP was the choice. have been using it since and last few services no negative feed back. msut have made some difference. as for power, dont think it changed much. not that you spend time looking at the speedo😀

i do the shell opti thing and find BP Prem. makes her run rough and drink more

is it true that the petrol is different from state to state? i cant remember who told me this but i think its got diff. octane levels in diff states.

weather is why????

Here are my positive opinions.

We run the bus (1800 twin carb) on Optimax and find it doesnt ping, carbies remain clean and has consistent smooth running with reasonable fuel economy. (approx 11 L/100 country, 16 L/100 city)
I would have no problem using BP ultimate if there was no Shell nearby, but they are not that far apart.

The beetle 1300 is abused and violated/ molested every day and it only gets regular unleaded with no brand preference, but in saying that we still only go for the big fuel companies. 😀

I believe SkewytYpe3 meant Whether not the weather...
and I use Woolworths ULP in MY 2001 Lancer without any problems... goes like a blurr.... perfection... Singapore people certainly know how to make Fuel...
It went well on BoGas ULP too....
It won't be long and Ethanol will be in all Fuels, just as in the USA... its OK too...

The reason your lancer runs on it without any change in performance because it has an oxygen sensor to compensate. The extra oxygen in ethanol is a bad thing for a carb car. It will run leaner. Your lancer is adding in extra fuel to compensate for it. I dont think it will do any damage to it although fuel consumption will go up. You'd have to do your own calulations to see if the extra consumption outweighs the benefit of lower cost per litre. I've used it in my lancer too when the wallet is thin.

If ethanol content was standardised across all fuels, and we got to see some REAL LIFE cost benefit there shouldnt be any problem. We all just richen the jetting and drive on oblivious with the higher octane fuel. At least thats the way I understand the fuel debate.

There was a service station near me that got pinged (pardon pun) for lacing fuel with toluene. There was a number of engine blow ups attributed to it. At the same time I was running a self mixed 30% toluene/unleaded at 25psi boost in my car. But it was dyno tuned and running mixtures needed for it.

A number of times my lancer has started running rough of a morning. A couple of tanks of optimax has the injectors clean and running good again.

What size engine is your lancer?

The guy in the Deception Bay Matilda reckons the Woolies kero in 'refined' in indonesia and has a very high contaminant level. Also said that that particular Matilda uses local refined fuel. May differ servo to servo.

Just filled up the tank with BP ultimate tonite instead of LRP...

Will see how it goes for the next week or so 😀

i got told to use super and thats all i have been putting in it...however i havent actually been driving it yet because of the resto...but what is ULP an PULP?? i am not familiar with all the fuel terms...cus this is my first car..i dont actually know too much about it

jonno

ULP = UnLeaded Petrol

PULP = Premium UnLeaded Petrol

ok great...so basically in that description PULP=good
super=bad
??

jonno

Jonno

what we are saying is

LRP = BAD

ULP = good for stock motors

PULP = good for high compression / performance motors

Super = leaded petrol > doesn't exist anymore

LRP = leaded replacement petrol > not the same as leaded > not as good.

ULP/PULP as Blue said.

LRP = Load of Rubbish Petrol that will disappear by the end of the year.... good Riddence..It was only marketed, so people thought that they were not really losing Leaded Petrol - an undercover job.. :puke:puke

so I would be OK in saying we should run the new beetle, well new to us, on ULP as well??

good, also I have been running my 1970 mazda 1300 on ULP for over a year now, and I havent had any reliability problems at all with it, so it must be something about alloy head cars using steel inserts are OK for ULP?

for those running on pulp, you can buy an octane booster additive that can be used when travelling and pulp is not always available.🙂

is it a good idea if u are using ulp or pulp to put on a cat??

anyone know the different flow rates and octane ratings of all the PULPs?
a very well known carb servicer once told me that he's seen degradation caused by optimax. apparently it cleans too well and corrodes stuff. i dunno. i'm still using it. i do notice a build up of a yellowish oil fumy deposit on the top lids of the air cleaners... hmmmm

i've heard some very similar things about optimax

everyone i've talked to about fuels say that bp ultimate is the shit to go for

yes. i've also heard optimax causes depravation 😀

I had been using BP Ultimate religously, often going out of my way to ensure a 'pure line'.

Well, I have recently moved to Port Macquarie and to my horror they don't have Ultimate here! Of course they have BP but there no Ultimate bowser anywhere in town.

Hmm, Feeling like my sponsor has just left me hanging out to dry I rolled into Shell with the last drops of Ultimate in my tank. On the advice of a bloke at the next bowser I filled up with Optimax...

Within 5 minutes of restarting the engine there were flat spots backfiring and generally disagreeable feel to my bus. I was cursing the very name of BP.

Anyway, the next day I jump in ready for what should have been a failure to start and low and behold she fires up immediately!....and runs smoothly!....and tackles the local 'death hill' with considerable ease!....and does not have flat spots!...and always starts when hot!.. and ....the list goes on fellow dubbers.

I am with Optimax, will anyone join me?


PS No, I don't work at Shell or in a service station, I'm just saying 'If I hadnt tried then I wouldnt know'.

i think the question is to do with the long term effects: 5 mins just shifts the crud out of your lines and cleans your jets... leading to a bit of misbehaving...... and then what... runs great... eats bits away slowly.... or do I just work for BP?
anyone know the theory behind flashlube?

Actually, I happen to be closely related to someone who works for BP...

I think some imaginations are running wild with people; in reality, the different companies actually get fuel from each other's refineries! They claim different characteristics mostly by leaning on the testing procedure toward a particular goal... (Unofficially, I heard from another source that BP had to claim the lower, more accurate figure in order to keep it's lucrative motor racing association.)

As for flashlube - I believe it uses much the same active ingredient as LRP. There are some quality octane improvers available from auto stores, fortunately VWs don't need lead or it's substitutes (I think of my youth, when you could buy a tetraethyl lead additive from speed shops.)

hey guys, ive been running my '76 , 2 ltr.fuel injected kombi on ULP and have filled with PULP on two different occassions and it runs heaps hotter,than with ULP. not good.!:cussing reason i tried PULP was the forum seamed to recommend it, but she dont like it! any one got idea why? :o

To run noticeably hotter seems strange... There is a reason it would run a little hotter, but I'm not going to mention it as it upsets certain people - but I wouldn't expect a driver to notice it.

S:alieno whats the reason for blue buses engine to over heat with pulp (ultimate) that is?:cussing:repuke

you can tell me auto stic i can take it:P

:bouncestands to reason that the same tanker brings everyones fuel accross to OZ. I mean it's not coffee is it? You know, Columbia, Java etc......or is it?

I thought crude petroleum comes from different regions and therefore will comprise differing ratios of hydrocarbons dependent on the source.

I also think that this raw petroleum product enters a particular companies refinery i.e. SHELL or BP and comes out the other end as the stated product you buy at the bowser.

And doesnt each franchise have a set of standard operating procedures that dictate safe and effective handling of fuels so as to ensure quality control and thereby minimise risk to engines?

I am not 100% certain of this but there is plenty of room for differences as I see it, can anyone assist?

hi
I have been running my type 3 twin carbs with a lot of miles ( this car and when engine was in old body ) on it I lost count about 3 years ago as speedo had gone around to many times on bp/shell pulp for 4 months hand it runs very well on both .
Some times I put a little bit of lash lube in about every 2nd or 3 rd tank judt for luc.

marc

if you've been running for three years and watching your valve clearances i'd be interested as to your findings. we really don't know what the seats are made of on any given day, on any given set of heads.
catalytic converters have a limited life, and some people have raised the question of environmental awareness too many times to miss chucking my 2c in. how many times have you driven along behind a 'new' car with the sulfur stench so bad you blame the dog? as it doesn't affect the performance of the vehicle, how many people are actually going to replace their cats once they're dead? do they even know they're dead? welcome to acid rain and some say even worse environmental side effects than super petrol. when was the last time that you saw a EPA car with it's exhaust gas analyser hanging out the back of a hyundai that's been pulled over? huh? huh?:jesus

yes Peter, when the cat dies they put out far worse than the old leaded fuel & nobody is going to replace a catalytic convertor when they find the cost out, when our Kombi was suffering a slow death in Central Aust on #1 & #3 exhaust ( Murphy said it had to be one in each head), we were running parallel with a Peugoet reanactment run of the 52 Redex trial , mostly '50's & 60's cars some of them had the same problem some did not, it basically came down through elimination that almost all of the valve seat problems were on seats that had had the face re-cut - removing the hardness , or embedded lead protection, on dismantling the (reconditioned ) engine I found that about 3mm of the seat faces of the two problem cylinders had disappeared, whereas the seats in:jesus the respective adjacent cylinders were as new

Thanx for the warning on Woolies petrol. My suzuki was pinging and struggling all over the place. I thought the engine was on the way out after nearly 220K. I filled the tank with optimax yesterday and it's like a different car. Smooth power delivery and absolutely no pinging. From now on the car will be using premium unleaded.😉

Sorry to reopen a pretty old thread but I had not seen this one until the link to it was posted in the unleaded thread today.

I used to work for BP (coding the software that they use in their depots to fill the tankers) and I can confirm that the major companies (BP, Shell and Mobil) all run joint ventures from state to state supplying each others fuel. So in Vic where there is no BP refinerey BP stations are pumping Shell fuel and vise versa in Perth for example. There is a facility for the different companies to add different additives at the time the tankers are filled but this has not been used for some time as I understand it.

Cheers
Tim

Hmm, so you're saying that we can't get BP Ultimate in Melbourne? I always go to the BP near where I live, but if it's just shell Optimax... You sure about that. Wouldn't there be some sort of false advertising legalities that might bite them on the bum for this?

EDIT: oh no , I misspellt "bight"! (Been thinking about driving to WA, past the great aussie " .)

[Edited on 5-10-2004 by aggri1]

In QLD nearly all fuel is supplied by the BP refinery, it's only Caltex and one or two others that don't. So all this about "don't buy it here or there" is crap unless the station owners are adding the additives themselves to "thin" out the fuel for more product to sell. I'll have more details on this soon.

im interested to know why engines run hotter on premium. ive been using LRP for ages however the other day i decided to see what all this fuss was about with premium so i ran Ultimate (filled the tank with the stuff) and it did seem to run a bit smoother and i though hey maybe it is worth it. now i dont have a temp guage so i dont know if it ran hotter or not but the day after i filled the tank up and i turned off the car on a hot day after parking at work it stopped and then kinda fired up and ran rough for a couple of seconds before dieing again. i found this rather interesting and was thinking of getting some hotter plugs for it as i had been told this would fix the problem. usually if i cant get LRP i would use ULP and put some flashlube in. but after the ultimate i just filled up with LRP the next time. to tell the truth the best my car has ever run was when i put the remains of the 50:1 boat fuel tank in my car (mixed 2 stroke ULP fuel).

Nick

Ps: my car hasnt run on since that one time even though i still ran the PULP for a couple of days.

geez you sound like me. I remember when we had drained my tank and went to refill it when we realised the drum we had siphoned the fuel into had about a 1/4 of Diesel in it. Didn't run that bad either.

i heard somewhere that running diesel through an engine can help to clean out the carbs or something..........i think it was in the john muirs book.

I am pretty sure it is correct Aggri1. I know it was the case a couple of years ago when I worked there and it certainly surprised me at the time. The other thing that I did not know is that there are regulations about how many petrol stations the petroleum companies can own. BP only owns about 4 in Vic and all the other BP badged stations a franchises or something similar. There were a few petrol zealots at BP who would only fill their cars up at the BP owned stations.

Use the Pemium Unleaded with Valve Master additive which is available at all Shell servos. I've been running it for 4 years without any problems.

hey guys I'm a noob so please forgive me

my car has a 1200 which has been rebuilt, but neither the seller or I know when. seller told me the car will only run on LRP, but I would prefer using PULP if I had the choice

the main questions is:

If I use PULP will the car explode? that's my biggest concern. should I use PULP from now on and not touch LRP again? another question is... if it does explode, will I die? :duh

[Edited on 5-10-2004 by Lams]

you shouldnt have any problems and it definatly shouldnt explode so if u experience problems running PULP u can always switch back to LRP or ULP with additive.

Have just picked up a 73 Kombi and used PLP driving it back from Byron Bay.....went well but with the extra cost of PLP would like to consider using ULP instead.

Interesting to read in an earlier post that all post 1967 VW's have hardened valve seats so the addition of fuel additives are necessary - is this correct?

Stompy wrote:Interesting to read in an earlier post that all post 1967 VW's have hardened valve seats so the addition of fuel additives are necessary - is this correct?

No the addition of additives is UN-necessary

Not entirely true.

The use of premium is probably unnecessary. Some swear optimax gives better economy, but I think that is more a case of a group of people parroting what the first guy said. I never saw any increases using optimax in either my kombi or lancer. I've pulled down engines that ran on pure optimax and they are very clean inside, it seems to clean injectors pretty good as well. A few times my lancer has ran a bit rough of a morning so we feed it optimax for a couple of tanks and it clears up. Might be good value if you look at it along those lines.

The use of additives is most of the time unnecessary. However its a well known fact that type 4 heads generally suck in the areas of valve seats, some more than others. I have a particularly soft head on the LH side of my engine. Without using additives I cant get 3 months without doing a valve adjustment. They close up. I used valve master for some time, because I was told it is best. I still had the recession problem. Perhaps the same people promoting optimax promote valve master due to Shell loyalty???? One day when I ran out, there was none available at local Shell's so I bought flashlube instead. Talk about enlightenment. VSR has all but vanished. I've gone from all valves riding at 2 months to doing 1 or 2 thou adjustments at 3 months. The only thing against flashlube is you cant get a measured does out of a bottle so have to carry a measuring device. :cussing

Flashlube is a miracle, valvemaster is... not much good for anything. This isnt a short term test, I'm almsot up to 2 years now.

Whats the deal with woolworths fuel? Woolies servos used to have cheap crap fuel from malaysia or somewhere. Then they jumped in the sack with Caltex to compete with shell/coles. However, Woolworths fuel doesnt come from a caltex truck. In Wollongong at least it comes out of a Toll truck. I dont think you are buying caltex fuel at all.

OKies, before I wade in to this discussion (for the third or fourth time, all in different threads I think...), I am a Mech Engineer, I work for BP at the Kwinana Refinery and I have a reasonable knowledge of the retail fuel situation in Australia as it stands. I'm happy to clear up a couple of misconceptions, so.....

1). Misconception - "You only get BP fuel in W.A / QLD as the other companies sell it rebadged". Not exactly true anymore, although it was correct up until a couple of years ago. The system was called REFEX, or Refinery Exchange. The refineries around australia had an agreement to supply each others fuel requirements directly in the states where they did not have a refinery presence. As a result, if you cruised in to a Shell in WA you were guaranteed to be getting BP fuel out of the pump.

This has all changed now, as Kwinana opted out of the REFEX program, and it is now defunct. Australia runs a proper BUY / SELL contract arrangement now, where the refineries are free to use whatever supplies they have access to (ie indiginous refined, imported or bought from other refineries in OZ) so long as the product complies with the fuel specs. So the fuel companies in W.A enter Quarterly agreements with each other to purchase whatever fuel they require.

This is important - as fuel specs are not the same over Australia, W.A has the strictest of all. Basically in REFEX we were supplying W.A spec fuel to the other companies for their W.A market, in return for lower spec fuel in the eastern states - we were getting shafted every time with a quality giveaway.

So now it is most likely if you buy at the major oil companies servos that you will still buy Australian refined fuel. It might have been purchased from another Refiner, but it will have been made to your local specs. You also have a chance that it has been imported from India, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Pakistan or whoever can make fuel to meet your local specs. I know in W.A that we supply about 80% of Perths fuel, Gull imports, Caltex imports, and we import to meet the north west areas demand in certain products.

It should all comply with the respective states fuel specs though !

2). Misconception "Ultimate and Optimax are the same".

Definetely not true, as Ultimate has several differences, mainly in Sulfur and Benzene levels, as well as a few other more technical spec differences. BP will only ever sell BP refined product as Ultimate - this is why you cant get it in some states (like Melbourne I think), as we only have two refineries in OZ, in PErth and Brizzy, hence we cant meet the supply. So you get Optimax from Shell in Melbourne, and no Ultimate. And we cant get Optimax in Perth, vice versa.

BP is very strong in terms of brand values, and would never let another company sell its trademark, flagship fuel under their label.

3). Whats up with Woolies Fuel ?

Woolies lobbied the Australian and W.A governments to alter the fuel specs to allow increases in the levels of oxygenates like MTBE in fuels. Addiing oxygenates to fuels is sort of a cheating way to get a cleaner burn - it increases the environmental risk of the fuel, as well as a few cancer issues too I believe. They were unsuccessful, but you should be aware that that is their attitude to fuel - they are only in the fuels business to sell groceries, so they want the cheapest stuff they can get. They import alot of their fuel.

Actually the whole Woolies / Coles thing is really hurting the fuels retailers - they sell the fuel at break even prices because they arent interested in making $ from fuel. What irks me is that everyone pays for it in their groceries - not just the people who use the dockets.

So I hope that clears a couple of things up. Let me know if you want to discuss further, I'm only too happy to talk as far as my experience goes, and there are other people around I can ask questions of too..

Cheers