I just got back from Coffs this morning at 3.30. just realised most of my post in the 'general' section should have been here. um. interested parties should look there, and when i get the photos developed and scanned and stuff, I'll post here 😀
jakriz ·
So is it now a V8 killer, & not just a V6 killer anymore?
Jak
Peter Leonard ·
Actually Jak, yes it is 😀
but don't trust me, trust the 1/4 mile figures....
gotta love how little dubs weigh 😉
"Sorry, I thought it was Kph on my speedo.."
1303 ·
While you were up there, did Stan hint to any HP or 1/4 mile time estimates with your new "STERIOD" combo? or does anyone have a dyno print out of one of these wild sounding engines?
jakriz ·
Peter Leonard wrote:Actually Jak, yes it is 😀
Really? Can u take me for a drive? I'd like to see how fast it really is in a full weight street Superbug. I expect it to be quick in Craig's car, but I'd be really interested in how much quicker it is next to my backyard lawnmower engine.
Feel like cruizing up the coast next weekend, give it some k's to run it in before u start hitting that 8000rpm redline!!!
Take care
Jak
\
Peter Leonard ·
I will probably take it to a dyno when it's run in (and when I have the money to throw around), but as you probably know this is by no means an absolute test of horsepower. the same car can be dynoed on the same day, by the same operator on two different dyno machines for two completely wildly different figures. Even on the same dyno, different weather, different fuel, different operators, different modes and a host of other crazy variables make dyno testing useful mostly only for tuning purposes. according to the seat of my pants (and some nasty stains) the horsepower should be over 65 billion 😀. Probably the best way to determine horsepower accurately is the top speed reached at the end of the standing 1/4 or 1/2 mile, combined with the weight of the car. this means less emphasis on traction, gearing, resistance and driver error than the ET.
With the restrictive exhaust system I'm running (not even suitable for my milder base 1916cc) who knows what it is... all I know is it's really torquey down low before the exhaust starts trying to strangle it, and this torque should improve still further with the better exhaust. I've exhausted my 'exhaust' word usage limit now..
love to come up the coast some time and show ya, we should sort something out 😀
weekends are sort of problematic (especially Sundays, when I'm at work) but I'm sure we can sort something out :thumb
and btw, lawnmowers don't use 94's 😉
"..... somewhere, off in the distance a cricket chirped.." :bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce
Craig Torrens ·
I always laugh when people assume my car's performance is because it "must" be light 😀 I will have to put the 1kg radio back in😉
Pete, I 'll come to the Dyno with you, no-one invited me to the last one at SAS🙁
jakriz ·
From all reports Pete (talking to others in the Pobjoy know), u should get 120@ the wheels, I take my hat off to that, stock rockers standard rods, stroke etc etc. Did u end up getting the CNC 044's from CB or just their 044 magnums? What compression are u running? U will definantly notice a difference with the merged header.
Craig, u know that I would have invited u if I knew u were interested, I will call u for the next one, I promise!.
regards
Jak
Craig Torrens ·
:kiss thanks Jak, now I feel loved again :kiss
56astro ·
Craig you bitch! :cussing
I always suspected you were cheating on me, but with Jak!?!?!?
When you get home, pack your bags and get out! :cussing
You're kicked-to-the-kerb.
Jer-ry
JER-RY
Craig Torrens ·
but Steve...
you and I have so much history🙁 .............and the kids.........their yours !!😀
jakriz ·
He just has a better time with me............
kombi_kid ·
queer as folk
Peter Leonard ·
what? i thought I saw steve with craig's best friend, at the hotel the night before the show :o
044 cnc heads (i think)
no idea of compression
*looks for somewhere flat to do an oil change*
*curses the hill he lives on*
jakriz ·
044 cnc heads (i think)
no idea of compression
Weren't u there taking pics?............or is it top secret? Surely u didn't dump over a whole lot of cash & then have know idea whats in the thing??😉
Peter Leonard ·
Mostly I just dumped a whole lot of cash, but I did take pictures. When I get them developed I'll post all the ones that turn out okay. Remember, I was using a mini spy-cam so the quality may not be too crash hot 😀 gotta get me one of them newfangled digital thingamies one day.
I'm sure some of the stuff is secret (so I don't know either) but most of it would just be the dizzying number of hours of painstakingly meticulous work that Stan requires to build his legendary motors. Anyone can buy the parts, but how many people can do the machining and engineering? Ask Stan what he uses if you want to know exactly, I'm sure he'd love to have a chat 😀 All I know is I'm stoked with the results, and having dealt with him before knew it was worth it before I began. anyone ever seen the 'soup nazi' episode of seinfeld? Stan's a nicer version, with a slightly less culinary leaning 🙂
Craig Torrens ·
Actually Jak, you have to sacrifice 3 virgins under a full moon and then drink 236ml of goats blood before you can be told the secret, all this while standing on your head 😀😀
Peter Leonard ·
i take it that's why he was laughing at me. he gave me goat's piss.:o
Craig Torrens ·
maybe you were the virgin :jesus
Peter Leonard ·
that's gotta be better than the goat. :P
lugnuts ·
Gee,dosn't Stan give out build sheets,Jake does.😀
jakriz ·
Wish I had clients like Stans! When I design houses, my clients want to know every last detail, even the ones that have come back 2 or 3 times for my designs!!
Stans very lucky then😀
Bizarre ·
Bwahahaha
Stan Raby
Hmmmmm.... I wonder who Danny is??? 😀
VWCOOL ·
lugnuts wrote:Gee,dosn't Stan give out build sheets,Jake does.😀
yeah:
BUILD SHEET- 1916cc
That's all you need to know!!
Gracey ·
Pete, if your interested I've got a nearly worn out set of 1 1/2" merged headers with muffler that you can have for free.
I had to use U bolt muffler clamps on the slip joints to hold it together and to stop the leaks, so its a pain to pull apart and put together but I figured I wasn't going to use it again, so what the hell.
Anyway the price is right.
Andrew Grace
Peter Leonard ·
Gracey, you're a true salt of the earth type person :thumb
dagnabbit, if only the location was better 😀
mebbe you could just fax it to me.
I DO have a build sheet here somewhere. I plan on looking at it when i could be bothered 😀 *contemplates unpacking*
*shudders*
bigbruvabob ·
is it rude to ask wot dollars we talking here got two bugs to bomb body and paint all done looking for options
Oasis ·
Any pics yet?
Gracey ·
Dude, I probably could fax it to you in our new 3D fax machine at work but I'll get in trouble if I get caught.😀
Seriously though Beaudeserts only 4 hours north of Coffs.:o:o
BTW, I'd love to see the look on your face when you derestrict that baby. As Homer would say Woohoo!!
Andrew Grace
Craig Torrens ·
So Gracey, I hear you're next on the loooong list of "New"steriods .😀
That means you're one person closer than me😠
Gracey ·
Thats right Craig, you'll just have to wait your turn.:P
Just remember good thing come to those who wait. Anyway you could just strap some number plates to your super light, slick shod race car.😀
Andrew Grace
Brad ·
[quote
yeah:
BUILD SHEET- 1916cc
That's all you need to know!! [/quote]
So let me get this straight you don't actually know what is in your $$$$ engine just that it seems to go hard ..
Is this correct or are you just funning with me ??
lugnuts ·
That about sums it up,i think Pete and Rota_Motor have very similar setups 🙂
Peter Leonard ·
Just to set the record straight, I DO know what's in it. I'm not conversant with all the finer points of it's construction, but if I was, I would have built it all myself. I've now examined the 'build sheet' at great length, and have discovered that it's even got hypercam plus! yes double good style overcomp pressure lifters and a red thingy that goes woooop! not to mention the stock rods, counterweighted crank, and stock pushrods. and 009 dissy. and some other stuff. and things. I didn't pay my four billion pesetas without SOME idea of what was going in it. On a side issue, is it sooo hard to believe that it's possible to have faith in someone's workmanship and honesty, without picking everything to shreds before the build? maybe you people should try different engine builders...
I'm just glad that the red thing that goes "woooop" was included at no extra charge. 😀
Baja Wes ·
Peter Leonard wrote:and stock pushrods
really? are you sure?
Bizarre ·
Umm.... why not Wes?
Unless they are 1.4's or something, or Stan's really gone wild with the maching why would the rocker geo change?? :jesus
Craig Torrens ·
Wes, mine has stock pushrods as well as stock rockers and you've seen how well it revs/goes when you were at Raleigh !
That's why "Stan's the Man", and building a motor by yourself will never compare.
Like Pete said, do you need to know every last detail about what you purchase ! I don't know what ratio's are in my gearbox, and I don't care, I purchased it from a person who knew what he was doing!!
Stan's motors are not "one offs" like other builders, so you already know what you are getting, over 2 decades of industry leading experience.
How many people ask what's in their prescriptions??? The wrong drug can kill you !!! more important than a compression ratio you would think..:jesus
Baja Wes ·
in my 1776 with stock valves and springs my stock pushrods used to flex enough to rub on the pushrod tubes. It never broke or anything, but you pulled it down you could see where they had been rubbing. Even though when you turned it over by hand they didn't come close to rubbing anywhere. I therefore came to the conclusion they were flexing too much.
I figured the flexing and rubbing in the push rod tubes may promote leakage from the push rod tubes.
In my 1915 it ran chrome moly pushrods, much noisier cos they were stiffer, but no rubbing, and no oil leaks from the tubes while I had the motor (prob 5 or so yrs?)
Brad ·
Peter Leonard wrote:On a side issue, is it sooo hard to believe that it's possible to have faith in someone's workmanship and honesty, without picking everything to shreds before the build? maybe you people should try different engine builders...
Interesting choice of words........ my response in short is yes. I would never pay the $$$ that he asks and not know exactly what I was getting. The fact that people will not post what they paid simply shows they don't feel they got a good deal in my book.
My 2020 cost me $2190 for the record and I am very happy with both the results and the machining work done for me by Greg at Mick Motors and Brisbane Engine Balancing.
So what did yours cost ?
Brad ·
Baja Wes wrote:In my 1915 it ran chrome moly pushrods, much noisier cos they were stiffer, but no rubbing, and no oil leaks from the tubes while I had the motor (prob 5 or so yrs?)
Ahhh yes Wes but your 1915 wasn't a POBJOY motor so it wasn't built properly with secret stuff ... don't you know anything ???:o:o
jakriz ·
In my 1915 it ran chrome moly pushrods, much noisier cos they were stiffer, but no rubbing, and no oil leaks from the tubes while I had the motor (prob 5 or so yrs?) [/quote]
Thats weird Wes, mine ran quieter when I put Chromoly pushrods in? I figured since they were heavier thats why they were quieter?
I think that it amazing that Stan uses stock pushrods with those revs, more power to him I say, It's definantly an Artform.
I can't afford to get someone to build my engines so thats why I do my own, I also like telling people at traffic lights when they ask, "is that a Pobjoy?, & I answer, "no, Its a 'Rizzo'...........pretty privilaged to be asked that I suppose.
Jak
Craig Torrens ·
Buggy Brad wrote:
Interesting choice of words........ my response in short is yes. I would never pay the $$$ that he asks and not know exactly what I was getting. The fact that people will not post what they paid simply shows they don't feel they got a good deal in my book.
My 2020 cost me $2190 for the record and I am very happy with both the results and the machining work done for me by Greg at Mick Motors and Brisbane Engine Balancing.
So what did yours cost ? [/quote]
So what did you get for your $2190 ??
I bet you didn't get new twin 44idf's ($1800), new CB 044's ($1650), new Aluminum case ($1100), new counterweight crank ($770), new pistons/barrels ($550), new Kennedy pressure plate and clutch ($550), new billet cam ($300).................... I'm already at $6720:thumb
Before you try to compare , have a look at what your invoice includes. With a Pobjoy 1916 the cost of Stan's work is about $1500. Pretty cheap considering this is for stripping your donor motor, washing and inspecting all parts, ALL machining, and reassemble of the complete motor !!
or $450 for assembly of motor.
So Brad, Stan may have been cheaper:o for what you had done.
And as for the "Secrets", I prefer to call it Knowledge not yet learnt by the "others", all industry leaders have them that's why they are leaders.😀.
Gracey ·
What Craig said. Quite simply you don't get anything for nothing.
A good example is motorbikes, I had a custom exhaust built for mine which cost $900. For that I got an 8 hp increase which I was very happy with. Ask a Veedub person to shell out that sort of coin for the same thing on their VW and you'll have very few takers. It's all a matter of perception.
BTW Wes, your chrome moly pushrods were noisier because they don't expand at the same rate as your motor, not because their stiffer. Cheers
Andrew Grace
lugnuts ·
(Its a Rizzo),i like your style Jak,:thumb
HotRodMatt ·
Just bring it to the Dyno Day on 7th December!
That'll show us what it's worth...
I've heard 120hp at the wheels for these engines. Yeah right - time for someone to show what a fresh one really makes. And fresh is the best time to run it.
Craig Torrens ·
Well I'd love to see someone else win several Australian and state hillclimb titles with less than 100hp !!!😀 I'm sure the FJ20 powered Datsuns,WRX's and 300hp torana's would disagree with your comments. 8.74sec for the 1/8 mile in a 830kg car certainly doesn't work back to low horsepower either. Only a tenth or so behind Leigh's times.😎
Happy to put my car on SAS's dyno next time Jak and the others are there.
Brad ·
Craig Torrens wrote:So what did you get for your $2190 ??
I bet you didn't get new twin 44idf's ($1800), new CB 044's ($1650), new Aluminum case ($1100), new counterweight crank ($770), new pistons/barrels ($550), new Kennedy pressure plate and clutch ($550), new billet cam ($300).................... I'm already at $6720:thumb
Before you try to compare , have a look at what your invoice includes. With a Pobjoy 1916 the cost of Stan's work is about $1500. Pretty cheap considering this is for stripping your donor motor, washing and inspecting all parts, ALL machining, and reassemble of the complete motor !!
or $450 for assembly of motor.
So Brad, Stan may have been cheaper:o for what you had done.
And as for the "Secrets", I prefer to call it Knowledge not yet learnt by the "others", all industry leaders have them that's why they are leaders.😀.
It is easy to charge less labor when you are charging that much for parts .....
New IDF Webbers are about $1600 off the shelf but I have an old set that work just fine.
I have a new alloy case, 76mm Counter balanced Scat crank, new 040 heads with stainless valves, chrome molly push rods, scat c35 cam, new 92mm mahle P&C, new kenedy pressure plate and clutch and I am no where near $6270 and pretty close to spec I would say.
As for ¼ mile and race times I am more than happy to kick your 1916 ass on the beach or up a rock wall any time of the day.
As for HP at the back wheels I will be a very happy camper if I get 100hp of ACTUAL POWER not 120 of supposed power.
If you think Stan can be cheaper than what I had done you are well and truly on DRUGS since I, like Rizzo build my own and buy most of my parts direct from the USA or off the same suppliers Stan does I don’t see how it would be possible unless he works for free which would be just silly.
I have nothing against Pobjoy Engines, never even owned one. Still find it very funny that all you Pobjoy Engine guys are embarrassed to tell us what you paid for them. If they are such good value for money then what’s the problem ?
I am guessing from your post they are up around the $10 000 mark ….. man that is more than my car is worth……..
So what did you pay and do you want to buy some more of those $1800 sets of Webbers and $1100 AU cases ??
As for Dyno’s lying …. Spoken by someone is not real keen to put there wheels were their horsepower is meant to be I reckon….
:kiss
Craig Torrens ·
Brad the point I'm trying to make is that 85% of the cost is in parts. If you supplied them, the labour and machining cost would be $1500.
Yes a new Steroids would cost around $8k-$9k, but this is not because of "high" labour charges.
P.S prices quoted are not POBJOY prices, just figures I thought they were worth, so if they are wrong its no reflection on what POBJOY charges😀 But mick motors did quote me $1100 for the case
I'm more than happy to put my car on the Dyno at SAS and have spoken with Jak so as not to miss the next opportunity:thumb
MickH ·
My 1916 with counterweighted crank 040 heads and kadrons cost $6200 in 1996. Apart from Webbers, 044's were not available when mine was built.They were released some months later. I paid $4000 for a second hand steroid with 044 heads and webbers with less than 15000km on it in mid 2002. I had money to burn but would not hesitate to build my own next time if I could find a decent engine balancer up here!!! :bounce
jakriz ·
At the end of the day, Stan has to make a living just like the rest of us. Obviously his engines speak for themselves & the owners of those engines all seem to be happy as well.
Probably explains why he is not on here trying to defend himself, he doesn't have to. If I had the money, if my father wasn't a toolmaker & could do all my case & head machining & if I didn't feel confident enough to put a motor together, it's comforting to know that I could go to Stan for a fast engine. I've used many of his products over the years & so has my father & I'm still using his anti-surge sump, theres nothing better out there!
Jak
lugnuts ·
Hey hows it going,great thread keep it going,somebody mensioned ballancing are Stans motors dynamically balanced.Cant wait to the next dyno day to get some figures for a real 1916,if it goes 120 or over ile start saving now.😉
Baja Wes ·
Gracey wrote:BTW Wes, your chrome moly pushrods were noisier because they don't expand at the same rate as your motor, not because their stiffer.
I don't want to change the subject, butI know they expand different. It just means you have to set them different to start with. You just set them with almost no gap cold, and it opens a little when it heats up. Even when cold and no gap the pushrods were noiser than stock ones. being a baja with no back it is noiser and more noticeable than in a beetle.
I must say I can't image spending over $3000 on a vw motor, so I find the fact people spend this much a little weird. But everyone can spend their money on whatever they want I guess. These comments are not pobjoy specific or directed at him in any way.
I mean I went the easy way to HP with a jap conversion. A far superior engine. People say to me, "I like the challenge of making the vw motor go hard", fine but I am not prepared to pay the silly amounts of money just for the sake of staying vw.
Or the other arguements of "I like to blow away other cars with a vw motor". Well I hate to say it but you won't blow away many modified cars with a 120HP VW motor. I don't see the glory of blowing away a completely standard commodore family car with a $9000 vw motor. I mean a $9000 turbo silvia import with an adjustable boost controller will blow away a 120HP vw (trust me my brother owns one - silvia).
And really it's a bit embarrassing how much people have to spend to make 120HP with a vw motor. Spend $9000 on a 13B turbo and you will have a 10second car with well over 400HP.
VW's go good at hill climbs due to their good handling and huge amounts of traction, not because they have awesome motors. I mean I like vw motors, and like to see vw powered cars go well in competition, but they are nothing compared to modern engines and I make no false illusions to that fact.
HotRodMatt ·
Craig. I have nothing against Stan's engines just want to see one actually get 100+ honest at the wheels ponies.
Bring it to the Dyno day on the 7th of December.
I'd love to see a naturally aspirated pump petrol 1916 break 100.
For $35 bucks on the rollers you can prove the disbelievers wrong.
i'd also like to see how yours stacks up compared to the "same" engine sold to anyone else for thier street car.
Craig Torrens ·
Very disappointing comments Wes, especially on a VW forum.🙁
I'm well aware of lower cost HP vehicle alternative to the Beetle, with my brother being a leading motoring journo for several "High performance car magazines" and my brother inlaw owning one of Australia's leading rotary race prep workshops, this fact is in my face every day ! Big Deal about Jap imports like Silvia's etc, the people on this Forum enjoy VW's and VW powered vehicles.
Have you ever worked out the cost to duplicate your car if I owned it and I had to pay retail for all the work ??
How many Hours of labour have you and other people put in to get it where it is today 100, 150, 200man hours? now times that by $70min. Add the cost of all your parts (I believe just over $4000) , add all the extra steel etc that you had lying around that I would have to buy. Now factor in the towing cost involved for me to move it from each "shop" to have the work done, engineering reports, and the "loss of time" from my work co-ordinating all this ????? Your CHEAP engine conversion has now cost ME $15000 easy, but under $5000 for you.
Not to mention that my race car now has to race in sports sedan class with your conversion ( wouldn't be competitive), or if it was my daily driver I have now lost interior space.
Your comments regarding VW powered vehicles in motor sport is typical from someone who has clearly not entered or participated at state, national or international level of motorsport.
I respect your Knowledge based answers to most forum questions, but clearly you need to experience and learn a whole lot more about Vw powered vehicles in motorsport.
:thumb
Get back to the topic of the thread.
Craig Torrens ·
HotRodMatt wrote:Craig. I have nothing against Stan's engines just want to see one actually get 100+ honest at the wheels ponies.
Bring it to the Dyno day on the 7th of December.
I'd love to see a naturally aspirated pump petrol 1916 break 100.
For $35 bucks on the rollers you can prove the disbelievers wrong.
i'd also like to see how yours stacks up compared to the "same" engine sold to anyone else for thier street car.
Do I really care what you want to see ? NO.
Doesn't matter what horsepower I have on "That" dyno it would probably be different on another, and whatever I get someone else will critise anyway !:P
I will go to SAS when Jak and the others go, not a VW workshop in competition with my engine builder.
There's more than 1000 other pobjoy 1916 owners, as well as hundreds that have bought Pobjoy 1916 secondhand, go ask them how they go.
HotRodMatt ·
Never different in Shootout mode! Ever!
SAS use a dyno dynamics too. If they are doing power runs in anything but Shootout mode then the results can be whatever the operator wants them to be... :-)
Oh yeah... I'm sure your race engine is quite different to the steroids anyone else gets for street use.
I'm sure I could close up the lash, loosen the fanbelt and change the fuels and timing in my street engine and get in another 15HP.
Bizarre ·
Sorry Craig - i have to have my say firts.
You dont have to look far to see the cost of a motor.
AC net is a good company. @ 72c in the US$ that is $5,000 even. No carbs, tin etc etc.
You wanna get scared go to Jake's site.
They go up to $20k! Aus
Drive in / drive out is a whole lot different to building it yourself. Let alone engineering it.
Sorry Wes - you loose on your arguement. You try driving a kombi in for a water cooled conversion and see how much is left from $5000 - zilch Well actually a bill cause $5k wont cover it.
Some people dont/cant/wont build motors themselves. And ask our sponsors if they do motors and that is the go for motors like that.
Ring round and find some one who does a 1776/1916 non stroker for $5,000 turnkey.
I bet you wont find many.
You might find some that will with a 2nd hand case and carbs.
I am a cheap skate and i reckon i came close to 3k
carbs $1000
case $500
Crank heads P&Cs $500
cam $150
clutch $400
there is $2,500 and it the crank heads P&Cs carbs were all cheapo buys
You want knew carbs case crank etc etc then you pay. Simple.
Ring round Wes and see what you would pay for your mods if some one else did it.
HotRodMatt ·
The big thing Wes' argument misses is that some people want power from their air-cooled flat four regardless of cost vs going to water be the water vw, holden, jap or whatever.
Those who want an exotic can get power from many sources for a dime from the thousands of daily added to wrecks... Those who want air will have to pay more.
Craig Torrens ·
HotRodMatt wrote:Never different in Shootout mode! Ever!
SAS use a dyno dynamics too. If they are doing power runs in anything but Shootout mode then the results can be whatever the operator wants them to be... :-)
Oh yeah... I'm sure your race engine is quite different to the steroids anyone else gets for street use.
I'm sure I could close up the lash, loosen the fanbelt and change the fuels and timing in my street engine and get in another 15HP.
Learn about Dyno's. Shootout mode means the operator is unable to adjust the results between cars, this has nothing to do with the calibration of the Dyno itself.
As for your motor comments, that's why I went to Stan in the first place, because with his motor's you don't need to do those pathetic "smoke and mirror" tricks for performance. I was "sold" on my motor combination after driving it in a customers car. I also drove the same motor in 1995 at valla in Ruth's daily driven superbug
YOU JUST DON"T GET IT DO YOU, what ever a pobjoy motor achieves, people like you will always come up with excuses like "rocket fuel", "magical timing","that's not what a customer can have" blah blah blah.....
Do you really think I would power my race car, road car,J&S buggy, 54 oval, brothers oval, best friends buggy and his race car, my ex girlfriends car my first Baja,and my second car with Pobjoy motors if they didn't perform !😠
Leave your conspiracy theories for the X files, I'm just enjoying the benefits of an excellent product.:thumb
Peter Leonard ·
if you kids don't stop arguing you can all get out and walk home.
1. I am not here to give quotes on stan's behalf. you wanna know what it'll cost, he still has redirect on 96721275.
2. Thanks to Craig (and his tired mig) I now have a merged exhaust, with a bodgy muffler and a completely new set of soiled undies. yes craig, thanks for the test drive 😉
3. It's still not run in, but I've taken it to around 5000 rpm (seat of pants tacho, where you can feel the cam coming in pretty hard) around the old backstreets. corners get sharp real fast:o especially with all this rain and a fair whack of understeer... :thumb all this crap about not running a new engine in is insane; the timing had moved almost 4 degrees, and the valves were sloppier than an unattractive euphemism. thanks to Craig's bewdiful new torque wrench and experience with the motor in question my heads are retorqued and she's purring again. This 'street' motor is so close to Craig's in design that it might as well be the same one. I have a better case, so nyeh :P heck I hope that's right.. Craig?
on a different note, my VW motor (complete with stock pushrods) runs at a variety of different temperatures, depending on what I'm doing and ambient air temperature. the stock pushrods are self adjusting according to the temp, whereas chrome-moly pushrods aren't. The best you can hope for is a compromise with the chrome moly, or aim for a temperature that you're sure you'll be running at. I think i'd find that a little annoying as a daily driver.
As yet there are few motors like mine and Craig's on the streets. i expect not many of these have been dynoed, we shall see what comes out on the day. and either I'll eat my hat, or some $%^@#$ will say it was rigged. In a perfect world we could eliminate all the variables (air quality, fuel type, bastard frikken electronics etc) and set up a benchmark once and for all. Somehow I doubt that's ever going to happen for 35 bucks. for proof, get one, go for a drive, do the quarter mile figures and add it up, or build one with more horseys. and make it last, otherwise you'll be getting unhappy customers... anyone unhappy? besides those who don't have one yet? start saving lugnuts 😉
and one more thing,:cussing
:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce
(I DO NOT SPEAK FOR STAN POBJOY, ALL OPINIONS EXPRESSED HEREIN ARE MY OWN. SORRY IF I STEPPED ON ANYONE'S TOES.) gotta do the disclaimer hehehehee 😀
whoah. that's a long spew.:puke
HotRodMatt ·
No conspiracy theories Craig.
I have driven and ridden many cars with Pobjoy engines, including one with one of your old engines.
I don't doubt their guts but I've never seen one get close to the purported 100 horses. And none that have ever even felt like it! And no one is ever keen to see what they really have.
What you say is right about shootout mode and that's why it's the ONLY mode that can be trusted for power runs.
The whole idea of Shootout mode is because the dyno dynamics machine are so closely calibrated that you take your results to another and they guarantee there will only be a tiny if any difference.
Peter Leonard ·
HotRodMatt wrote:Craig. I have nothing against Stan's engines just want to see one actually get 100+ honest at the wheels ponies.
I'd love to see a naturally aspirated pump petrol 1916 break 100.
For $35 bucks on the rollers you can prove the disbelievers wrong.
i'd also like to see how yours stacks up compared to the "same" engine sold to anyone else for thier street car.
With any luck, my rusted heap of crudness (affectionate term for Hoobie aka my streetcar) will be there too. But we'll never see the end of this craziness, no matter what happens, or who goes. just you wait... mark my words.... *tells you so*
there. I said it.
"Panda bear huh? We don't take kindly to your type round here.."
"Now Skeeter, we don't want no trouble..."
HotRodMatt ·
Peter I hope it does make 100+ ponies.
I doubt it but I and I'm sure many others want to see a naturally aspirated non-stroked engine pull that power.
I've never run down Pobjoy engines and never will, but will run down the claims made by so many who have never been close on the rollers to what they claimed. Here's hoping a fresh engine will get up there.
Craig Torrens ·
HotRodMatt wrote:No conspiracy theories Craig.
I have driven and ridden many cars with Pobjoy engines, including one with one of your old engines.
Is that Murry's car ?? Base pobjoy 1916, raced for two years by me and now over 10 years old ! can't complain with that reliability :thumb
HotRodMatt ·
Yes. Like I said I've never run them down.
It's a good engine and I don't have to be convinced that 94s are not a problem in regard to reliability.
Craig Torrens ·
Good bloke Murry :thumb sold that to him for $2200 ! Ahhh the good old days😉
Brad ·
How many Hours of labour have you and other people put in to get it where it is today 100, 150, 200man hours? now times that by $70min
Wow I can get $70 and hour for cutting up peoples cars 😀
Way cool :thumb:thumb
My Buggy goes on the Dyno Wednesday so I will see how many ponies I get for my $$$$ I reckon 60 at the wheels with 31 x 10's on it
Craig Torrens ·
I'd pay you $75, good bloke and all:kiss
lugnuts ·
To all those not going to the dynoday in Dec,what about having one at SAS on the first sat in Feb just like last year,im hoping for 42.1hp that would move me up 6 places in the National Aussieveedubbers Horsepower Challenge,currently seated at third last thanks Jen and Pat but about to blow past Kruizin,Grey,Jon,Jen again,Golde and if im lucky Flying.:P
jakriz ·
I was going to organise one after Xmas at SAS when CT & I do all our head swaps.
Unfortunantly I can't make the 7th of December, It's my little Sienna's 1st birthday.........I've already tried telling her mother she was born on the 6th but she won't beleive me.............
Jak
Baja Wes ·
I know the vw motors are good for competition like hill climbs, and I said that. I like to see them in hillclimbs and like to support the vw powered cars. My favorite car is Wayne Penroses beast.
My point simply was that I personnally wouldn't pay that much for a motor. I have the skill to do my own conversion, so I did. Some people have the skill to build their own vw motors, so they do. so be it.
I just think the people that run around saying "my vw blew away a gti swift (or something)" are a little sad when their motor costs more than the car they blew away. My mate had a $5000 RWD sprinter that he put a CA18DET motor into for about $1000 and he had a 12second street car. VW's can't compete with that kind of reliable everyday performance.
I'm not bagging out vw's, I just want people to be realistic about what they are saying and what they think they vw will and can do.
As I said hillclimbs are not a test of HP. A test of HP is drag racing. VW's used to be good in drag racing in their day when they were up against 202 holdens. But these days they are far behind the competition. And before someone quotes times from rod penroses car or similar, tell me how many vw parts are actually on the car.
Peter Leonard ·
wesley. wesley wesley wesley. there are so many things wrong with that last post I don't think I could be bothered wrangling with such an asinine view on a VW FORUM.
56astro ·
It seems to me that some people have an obsession about $$ vs HP.
It's not all about the $$ people. It's about getting a VW-powered VW to perform from the lights, around the twisty bits, etc etc as good (if not better) than some very expensive HSV ot FPV.
It's just that some cars do it better than others **enter Craig Torrens**
If you're good enough (or deluded enough to think you can) to put a hot engine together then good onya. If not (like me) then ya go to the engine builder / master machinist with the best reputation.
I paid about $5000 for my base 1916 and I supplied a 2nd hand set of Kads. They had to be totally cleaned up, rejetted (they came off a kombi) and tuned. There, I said it.
Now I have an engine that will last the life of my Oval with propoer maintanance, and out perform alot of cars, and surprise even more!
And the best part -
IT'S A VW-POWERED VW
:bounce
Baja Wes ·
56astro wrote:It's not all about the $$ people. It's about getting a VW-powered VW to perform from the lights, around the twisty bits, etc etc as good (if not better) than some very expensive HSV ot FPV....
...IT'S A VW-POWERED VW
And that's fine and I am all for that and I like vw powered vw's. I can say this all I want but people won't read it.
My point is be realistic about the vw and it's performance potential. I just don't want to hear people come on here and tell me stories about how they blew away a GTR skyline or something else silly...
bus914 ·
Surely it has enough horsepower, but before I buy one I’d like to know two things;
1. Longevity: will it still be fun after 100000+ km? If I occasionally stretch its legs.
2. Tractability: will it not make driving in traffic or the shopping center car park more of a nightmare than it needs to be?
…and it has to be aircooled even if Mazda wins on all counts.
Craig Torrens ·
1 Yes
2 Yes
jakriz ·
My point is be realistic about the vw and it's performance potential. I just don't want to hear people come on here and tell me stories about how they blew away a GTR skyline or something else silly... [/quote]
Well I've got the lap times for those silly stories, I chased the guy in the GTR all year, always a secon slower than him, i finally beat him the other weekend, U can also click on the link of u don't beleive me
Jak
2027cc beetle 2.03.156
Nissan GTR (godzilla) 2.06.516
Then theres also the Audi A4 turbo, the Audi TT Quatro, the Nissan Skyline......... http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?18/10/2003.EAST.S1
Peter Leonard ·
don't go confusing the issue with facts, jak 😉
the whole point of me getting this motor is very simple: goes hard? check. proven to keep going hard for 100s of thousands of k's? check.
that's why it's worth it.
sheesh.
Baja Wes ·
jakriz wrote:Well I've got the lap times for those silly stories, I chased the guy in the GTR all year, always a secon slower than him, i finally beat him the other weekend
but jak you beat him cos your the far superior driver obviously :P
I am talking about straight line performance, which is what your engine gives. Don't try and tell me you kept up with a GTR in a straight line, even if he had his air con on.
PS - A friend bought a GTR, when he got it he took it to the drags and ran a 11.99 1/4mile.
PPS - Peter, that's fine, I am glad you like your motor, I would have fun driving it to, all I am saying is that I personally wouldn't pay that much for a VW motor. Simple. I am sure there are many others that would also agree with me, and many others that would happily pay the money. Why does everything have to be an arguement :P
jakriz ·
It's just tooo easy to buy a GTR & do a 5.9 second 1/4 mile though, thats the whole arguement, if I had a dollar for all the thumbs up or positive remarks I get after staying with so called 'modern performance ' car's, I would be a very rich man (but I am, I have a hot VW😀).
I have a few scalps for straight line speed, there was the Z3 uphill on the F3, the 70's Falcon GT, .............the list goes on.
It's just too easy to go fast in a straight line Wes, u bragged once that u stayed with a Karman Ghia at Nambucca that had a 2.3 stroker in it, bet no corners were involved.
This whole post is a celebration if u like, that there is now another hot VW roaming the streets (& it's a superbug) who built it, who paid for it, how much did it cost? who cares. The grin answers it all................
regards
Jak
Craig Torrens ·
Baja Wes wrote:[....
...IT'S A VW-POWERED VW
My point is be realistic about the vw and it's performance potential. I just don't want to hear people come on here and tell me stories about how they blew away a GTR skyline or something else silly... [/quote]
😀 Cool no more silly stories about Baja's beating 4wd's offroad:thumb same thing :jesus
Peter Leonard ·
It also takes more than just top end horsepower and handling to win at the races, as opposed to the drags. If you come out of a corner and your power band is as thin as a drag-oriented vehicle (which are a compromise designed to make most power in a relatively narrow rev range) without extreme finesse and perfect gear changing you either suddenly swap ends, or choke it. You need out of corner power, that comes on manageably, yeh? Let's not get into power curves and crap, but Jak's could just as easily be beating the GTR on out of corner speed, similar to how you leave a turbo wrx behind while it wallows off the boil. trust me, this happens, they get reallly boggy at lower revs. That's gonna get me in trouble, but it's still true.
I could hook up a simple nitrous kit and blow most cars off the road left right and centre, but how hard would it be to drive (let alone the legality) on the road? hey this could be fun... just get the kit up and running for a couple of drags.... nah better spend something on the rust and handling before i go there. priorities priorities.
What Jak said about the thrust of this post is mostly true, it IS a celebration of another hot VW hitting the streets, but it's more than that. It's also me having a total wank cos now i've got a 'foolly shick dub' 😉 Everytime I turn the key, it's a really fun blaster sportscar, whenever I get out, I'm either smiling or shaking. How cool is that? And it's my daily driver!! I ROCK! MY DUB GOES FAAASSSSSST!!!:bounce:bounce
do I get bonus points for verbal diarrhoea ... like an increase in post count by five... or do I lose five.. 😀
may the rattiest sleeper win 😀
and where's my rat-eating forum?
:jesus
someone's tryignfds to tajkle my keyboardszs off mewwseffg:o
Craig Torrens ·
:beer A toast to Peter and his pride and joy
:beer A toast to all VW's making a mark on what they were built for.
:beer A toast to no more Hijacking of posts😀:thumb
Peter Leonard ·
:beer and a toast to beer 😀
:beer and toasting
:beer and toasters
:beer and the bread that goes in before it gets toasted
Baja Wes ·
It's funny how people read selective parts of my post as it suits them.
I said I wouldn't pay for one, simple my personal choice. Some people here can't understand that. Some people do want to pay that much money for a vw motor, and that's fine, it's there choice.
And likewise I went the jap route, and I simply stated a few reasons why. Some people agree jap is the way to go and the followers are in the conversion section. But some vw people can't see why I would want to go non-vw.
So I was pointing out a strange double standard on this forum. It's fine for people to want to spend $9000 on a vw motor but when someone spends $1000 putting a jap motor in his car it's blasphemy. :o
Then I was just making people realise a steriods motor will not make their vw the fastest car on the streets. If you have ever heard sh*t stories from people with hotted up vw motors spinning absolutely crap stories about how they blew away dodge vipers or something silly you will know what I am getting at. There are some very fast cars on this forum such as Jak's and Craig's car that are genuinely capable of blowing away a lot of cars, and they have earnt the right to brag. :thumb
And in every post I have said I like vw powered vw's and like to see them perform well, but no-one reads these sections of my posts. I call it selective reading.
Brad ·
Craig Torrens wrote:😀 Cool no more silly stories about Baja's beating 4wd's offroad:thumb same thing :jesus
Lucky you didn'y include Buggies in there 😀
From memory pictures and proof was posted along with stories. Now lets see the HP output of your engine :P:P
Craig Torrens ·
it's a secret:o😀
jakriz ·
Everyone has seen my dyno sheet, a whole 93.6hp @ the wheels.
Jak
Peter Leonard ·
1. There is no way on this planet that the average joe can get a jap motor in a VW for $1000 and have it roadworthy, and insured/registered. Wes, put the bong down.
2. If you listen VERY carefully to the posts in the "NEW! Engine Conversion" section, you can hear a solitary cricket chirping... but there does seem to be some interest in my rat-eating section 😀 I apologise for adding all my pointless remarks re rat-eating, but it was getting lonely in there.
3. I find it odd that people feel the need to repeatedly express a negative opinion on a simple thread like this. I don't feel the need to seek out a Philatelic society forum and say "You people spend too much money on stamps, just thought I'd let you and the world know."
surely that analogy isn't too cryptic.:P
now back to the topic: I have a mostly new motor 😀 WOOHOOO!! 😀
Peter - you just need to partake to see the true way!
Any way Pete
I just sent a cheque off to Jake for $50,000 US for a 3.9L Type 4!!!
Man - i is gunna spank your behind!!!
NOT! :bounce
Pete
check beer post - youcan come if i can have a drive!!!
Baja Wes ·
Peter Leonard wrote:1. There is no way on this planet that the average joe can get a jap motor in a VW for $1000 and have it roadworthy, and insured/registered. Wes, put the bong down.
If they stick to a more simple engine like an EA82T then a lot of people are capable of it. In fact I see more jap powered vw's than I do steriod pobjoy engined vw's. So there are just as many people out there cheaply going the jap route as they is people with enough money to afford a steriod motor. :P
I think this 37 degree weather and 12 hour days are getting too me....... :puke
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
Bizarre ·
Well then Wes, ya better get into your "mood" :party
Peter Leonard ·
Quite frankly, Stan could charge whatever he likes for his motors, as noone else can do them. period. it's like saying "I was going to buy a set of Felco secateurs, but they looked the same size as the $12.95 taiwanese ones next to them, so I got them instead. They don't really cut anything more than once, but they still look the same." There is only one Felco. they cost more, but they're the best. Not even a question of cost once you use them. I'll still be happy with my genuine article years from now, while the cheap and dirty reco option will still be a bucket of shit like it was the day it was built. (if it's still in the car) Nothing compares to these motors, because they're in a class of their own. For way too many reasons to list, but to find out you have to try them, or at LEAST have a ride 😉
has anyone ever bought a pair of felco secateurs? You'll know what i mean. everyone else.. save your money for a REAL VW motor. actually no, don't. It just makes mine more spesh 😀
Barry? you smell funny 😉
I'm still running around with a less than perfect muffler, but as I'm still also running the motor in (easy does it.... easy) it's no big deal as I'm not revving the crap out of it. yet. I promise you a ride some time, but you have to promise not to throw up on my bewdiful rubber floor mats:thumb
Bizarre ·
"I was going to buy a set of Felco secateurs,"
Pete
what the hell are talking about????
You and Wes planning a crop???
Always knew you 2 had some thing going!
What is a FECO??? :alien
Peter Leonard ·
a Felco, my horticulturally challenged friend, is a set of primo secateurs that should carry a warning something like "Felco assumes no responsibility for over-pruning of plants due to ease of use."relatively speaking, they make other cheaper choppers feel like trying to cut wire rope with a handfull of wet rags.
Sorry, I breathe, eat and sleep hardware, so some of my analogies may be a tad eccentric. 😀
Me and wes have NOT been growing stuff OR things. as far as i know. but if we were, I'd be harvesting with a seven year old pair of felcos.
*addled look*
:jesus
late now. pete tired. 😀
Baja Wes ·
Peter Leonard wrote:I was going to buy a set of Felco secateurs, but they looked the same size as the $12.95 taiwanese ones
You shoulda bought the japanese ones beside them, they would've lasted for 400,000kms and been heaps cheaper 😀
For way too many reasons to list, but to find out you have to try them, or at LEAST have a ride 😉
I think the same can be said about the jap motor, don't knock it til you try it. :P
I think I've had enough stirring contraversy in this post, maybe.......
😀😀😀
Baja Wes ·
Peter Leonard wrote:and where's my rat-eating forum?
And since you still seem keen, I have set-up your rat eating forum for you. It's the last sub forum in the general section.
You need to go in there and post a welcome post to the new sub forum. I also want to see detailed discussion on the best way to eat a rat. :thumb
Peter Leonard ·
WOOHOO!
This could be the most controversial and visited thread on the whole forum!!
FINALLY!!
but the stirring may as well continue on here... remember I still have photos to develop 😀
Che Castro ·
well i agree with wes, its so much more $$$ efficient to use a jap motor.
although I don't think you have to tell us 3 times that you did it yourself for little $$$. ;D
either way, my car doesn't need to do sub 13 sec 1/4's to be a fun, exciting and unique car. I like it as it is 😀
Peter Leonard ·
does anyone have a quote on how much it would cost to get it done professionally?
this would be interesting...
althought it would be cheaper still to go and BUY a cheap jap car, and they probably have less rust, better brakes, and better soundproofing too!!! what the hell are we doing here people?:jesus
VWCOOL ·
I have a pobjoy Beetle.
I have an HSV Senator
Guess which is quicker point to point on just about any road you care to name and a lot more fun along the way?
Bizarre ·
Peter Leonard wrote:does anyone have a quote on how much it would cost to get it done professionally?
this would be interesting...
Pete
There was a story in one of my old VW mags that talked about a Sube conversion in a T3 Kombi - remember this already has a radiator.
I am pretty sure it was like $7k for that! Some mob in Adelaide. I will see if i can find it tonight.
Doesnt Harding Euopean do the conversion for T3 kombis??
This would be a piece of pee compared to the beetle conversion. Even a baja conversion would be easier.
Baja Wes ·
VWCOOL wrote:I have a pobjoy Beetle.
I have an HSV Senator
Guess which is quicker point to point on just about any road you care to name and a lot more fun along the way?
If I was driving the Senator would be slower point to point, only due to the glorious clouds of tyre smoke and rubber I would be laying. So yeah it would be more fun. 😀
as for cost of getting a shop to do a conversion, they is some place I think on the sunshine coast that does it for reasonable prices. Not sure though.
I do know you can get workshops to put an SR20DET, 5 spd supra box and beefed up diff into a crap car like an old corolla for about $10,000. Good for about 220HP at the rear wheels and low second 14 second 1/4 mile passes, seriously limited by traction issues though.
koolkarmakombi ·
5 pages for you buying a new engine!:o:o:o
The server will crash if you buy a new car:jesus
kkk
lugnuts ·
Must be PSYCHIC or a sabateur😀
fish ·
how did this posting survive the onslaught?????
Peter Leonard ·
heheehehe wait til i scan and post the pics.. they're developed, with only a few thumb shots 😀
NigeType3 ·
Hi all just out of interest my busness partner has a SV300 HSV and after 25K on the clock it needs a new motor. Now this car retailed for $95000 and the cost of the replacement motor is only $8500.
I would have thort on a car this stature the engine would cost more. He is happy with it but as it dosn't realy come into its own until it reaches over 100K's I recon a 1916 would blow it away at the lights and probably the cheeper option.
Cheers Nige
HotRodMatt ·
I know one 1916 that would blow away the HSV... but it has a supercharger and runs on methanol...
Baja Wes ·
Brad has the dyno results back for his buggy, I bet no-one will guess the rear wheel HP reading that baby churned out 🙂
PS - we lined up for a drag race on the sand, it was a funny race, I hope we get to post the video up here...
Andy42 ·
My Guess is 87 rear wheel😀
squizy ·
Oh dear....
Merry Christmas all.....
:rudolf
Squiz.......
Peter Leonard ·
I'm guessing 64.5 😉
56astro ·
80 first run,
75 second run,
70 third run.........................
😀
He IS using 92's don't forget
😀
Just kidding
JUST KIDDING
Craig Torrens ·
HotRodMatt wrote:I know one 1916 that would blow away the HSV... but it has a supercharger and runs on methanol...
I know one that would without a supercharger or methanol 😀 But it also blew away a turbo 1916cc at the drags in 99' as well.😀😀
Peter Leonard ·
I really should get these pics scanned. I finally introduced myself to the pilot jets on the 44idfs... how's this: in the course of one crazed blatt across the anzac bridge I blew off one plug lead, and blocked two pilots. and i still drove it 30 ks home without any trouble. just didn;t go as hard, and idled VERY roughly 😀
anyone interested in a set of full on 'top gun' ignition leads (lower revving motors need only apply) as they have a different holder on the end, which can't take the gale force winds generated by an engine designed to scream. they do have the little boots on the ends, as i ordered them specially for veedub use. I'm asking seven BILLION dollars, but am open to negotiation. or I will accept a sack of fresh rats 😀
btw Craig, I reckon I've clocked up that extra 500 k's 😀 WOOHOO !!!!!!
lugnuts ·
56astro stop your killin me,heheheheh,but on a more serious note 75 galloping stallions.:thumb
Craig Torrens ·
lugnuts wrote:56astro stop your killin me,heheheheh,but on a more serious note 75 galloping stallions.:thumb
Yeah , put me down for 74 ponies 😀
And the answer is ...........................................................................:jesus
Brad ·
At my back wheels which are 31 x 10.5 x 15" tyres through an 1800 Kombi box and type 2 CV's it has .....
52.4 HP at the wheels ....... cool huh ..:thumb:thumb
Just goes to show those 40HP 1600 baja's and buggies are not far behind me.
Pretty cool how my 52.4 HP buggy can pull 4th gear in the soft sand any time it wants.
Maybe the problem is that I built it and not some other guy with magic fingures mmmm makes me really wonder how you guys are getting 120HP at your rear wheels .....
Now I have proof if anyone thinks I am telling fibs and only really have 45hp 😀, so lets see the printouts from some of you 1915 Pobjoy engine owners
Craig Torrens ·
now that's big power 😀 You would have to be over the moon with that performance :o
A week and a half to go and I will show you what my little baby puts out :thumb
Bizarre ·
I take it is stocked valved non ported heads??
I made 61 with my 1776 with ported 040's
and 36 IDFs
Got to admit i would have thought in the 60's, but......
Guess its a torque monster to be spinning those wheels
Brad ·
mmm has 040 heads with I think 35.5 and 40 mm valves, more cleaned than ported. I did match them to my manifolds but teh rest is pretty stock.
I would die if I had 120 hp at the wheels 😀
Look forward to seeing your figures craig. Was talking to a mate last week for an article I am writting he gets 180 HP at the rear wheels and does 13.1 second passes in his Manx. It is a 2.4L with not much stock stuff left at all ....
Gracey ·
Buggy Brad wrote:At my back wheels which are 31 x 10.5 x 15" tyres through an 1800 Kombi box and type 2 CV's it has .....
52.4 HP at the wheels ....... cool huh ..:thumb:thumb
Just goes to show those 40HP 1600 baja's and buggies are not far behind me.
Pretty cool how my 52.4 HP buggy can pull 4th gear in the soft sand any time it wants.
Just curious at what rev's was peak HP and peak torque?
Andrew Grace
Brad ·
I wouldn't let him go past 5000 RPM and teh graph was still going up at that stage. It was a very even curve right across the board.
Doug Sweetman ·
Sounds like just the torquey little beastie you want for off road usage.
Well done !
Plus, there is one thing that all the pobjoy people dont have - the satisfaction that you built every single part of your car yourself 🙂 Might not mean much to some people, but it gives me a helluva kick I know 🙂
Maybe you wouldnt have gotten bogged so quickly if it had 94's on it........... 😀 not !!!
jakriz ·
I'd be pretty bloody dissapointed with that , my engine is of similar spec & I got 93.6@ the wheels.
I'd be having a word to the engine builder or trying another dyno
Jak
How much did u pay for that again??
VWCOOL ·
Hey, power aint everything. What about torque?
jakriz ·
I also had 90 odd tourqe at the rear wheels from 2500rpm all the way to 6000rpm & then fell slightly to 7000rpm, I don't think thats too bad huh?
Jak
Peter Leonard ·
doesn't a stocker spin the wheels on sand too? would be like wet grass...
HotRodMatt ·
Wish you got the torque measurement too...
I expected a whole lot more from your engine.... I suspect the dyno operator may have had it on the wrong ramp rate or something.
I know a few 1776s that are getting 60+ with good torque. I expect mine to be around the 60s.
I know of one 2.1 that is getting 120+ but I suspect he'll get more on dyno day with further work on his injection...
I reckon you'd get more with the right ramp rate etc... That's why using a dyno operator who has shootout software (I'm sure non dyno dynamics machines have similar) are the best bet because the computer works out the ramp rates etc to get the most accurate measure.
Baja Wes ·
I suspect the kombi gearbox and raised suspension isn't helping. kombi boxes have hypoid diffs which are less efficient than the beetle diffs. Also have the susp high works the CV's which I guess is another drivetrain loss.
My 1915 in was Baja was noticably slower than when the same engine was in an L bug. Big HP sucking monster.
HotRodMatt ·
Maybe I should pull my engine out of the kombi and put it in a bug for dyno day... match oranges with oranges in what is becoming a race agains Barry! lol
Craig Torrens ·
Doug Sweetman wrote:Sounds like just the torquey little beastie you want for off road usage.
Well done !
Plus, there is one thing that all the pobjoy people dont have - the satisfaction that you built every single part of your car yourself 🙂 Might not mean much to some people, but it gives me a helluva kick I know 🙂
mmmmmm.... I get a helluva kick with a motor that peforms 😎
Why would I spend 25 years of my life trying to develop an engine combo, when I can use Stan's experience and enjoy the engine now ??
Hats off to all that build 100% of their cars:thumb
Brad ·
Peter Leonard wrote:doesn't a stocker spin the wheels on sand too? would be like wet grass...
Yep, many of them more than me cause they are bogged.
As for being dissappointed ... mmmm no not at all. I think anyone who has ever seen my buggy / engine in action will agree it does what it is built to do very well and as it was designed to. My engine builder mmmm nah I think I will keep him as he comes in handy when I break down on the side of the road.
As for the dyno guy, I dunno, don't really care what he had it one cause mixture was all I care about the rest was for amusement of others.
Hey Jak, what sort of HP were you making at 5000 RPM ?
Bizarre ·
HotRodMatt wrote:....... in what is becoming a race agains Barry! lol
You do what ever you need to Mat!
You gunna be crying well into 2004 :P
You will chuck those Kads further than a cricket ball when you see what Mighty Webers can do!! :o
Doug Sweetman ·
Craig Torrens wrote:mmmmmm.... I get a helluva kick with a motor that peforms 😎
Why would I spend 25 years of my life trying to develop an engine combo, when I can use Stan's experience and enjoy the engine now ??
Hats off to all that build 100% of their cars:thumb
he he he - I get a helluva a kick from having thousands of dollars left in the bank...... and a motor that performs, if not as quick as Stans. I'd probably only wrap it around a tree at any rate 🙂
Horses for courses......
jakriz ·
Hey Jak, what sort of HP were you making at 5000 RPM ? [/quote]
About 85 according to the dyno sheet.
Jak
Craig Torrens ·
Doug Sweetman wrote:he he he - I get a helluva a kick from having thousands of dollars left in the bank...... and a motor that performs, if not as quick as Stans. I'd probably only wrap it around a tree at any rate 🙂
Horses for courses......
:jesus mmmm you're only saving $450 on the labour, I get a helluva kick earning a lot more using the time spent to build the motor on my own work! now who's😀
Work smart not hard I say !
You're right , horses for courses :thumb
Craig Torrens ·
Buggy Brad wrote:At my back wheels which are 31 x 10.5 x 15" tyres through an 1800 Kombi box and type 2 CV's it has .....
52.4 HP at the wheels ....... cool huh ..:thumb:thumb
Just goes to show those 40HP 1600 baja's and buggies are not far behind me.
Pretty cool how my 52.4 HP buggy can pull 4th gear in the soft sand any time it wants.
Maybe the problem is that I built it and not some other guy with magic fingures mmmm makes me really wonder how you guys are getting 120HP at your rear wheels .....
Now I have proof if anyone thinks I am telling fibs and only really have 45hp 😀, so lets see the printouts from some of you 1915 Pobjoy engine owners
Well I only have 111.6hp from my 1916cc😀 not 120hp !
Funny it was producing 52.5hp well under 3000rpm😀
3400rpm=62hp
3800rpm=70hp
4200rpm=82hp
4600rpm=88hp
5000rpm=100hp (about double your power at 5000rpm
5400rpm=104hp
5800rpm=108hp
6200rpm=110hp
and 111.6hp at 6400rpm
I'm glad I paid mister magic fingers😀
Done on a Dyno Dynamic dyno with Greg Ward's blue street/hillclimb beetle producing 108.8hp from his 1916cc. Gregs was running rich, so he will get better results after some tuning:thumb
Peter Leonard ·
sounds a bit fibby to me 😀
so mine's going to weigh in at around the 110 mark too 😀
yee #$%&#@hah😀
:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb
jakriz ·
They will want to see the print out Craig..........I've learnt from this forum that if they don't know u they won't beleive u.
regards
Jak
Craig Torrens ·
jakriz wrote:They will want to see the print out Craig..........I've learnt from this forum that if they don't know u they won't beleive u.
regards
Jak
I'm not fussed Jak ! I've never had my car on a Dyno before, as I have always been happy with the performance. I did this to prove to myself what I had in comparison to others. Jetting was spot on and the Dyno guy was impressed, that's all need to know 😀
I'm sure CT will get a copy off Greg 😀
VWCOOL ·
jakriz wrote:They will want to see the print out Craig..........I've learnt from this forum that if they don't know u they won't beleive u.
regards
Jak
lol it's the same on every forum... Pplaters like looking at pretty pictures and then saying "Oh that sux dude, my mate's brothers' old boss's secretary's husbands' nephew has a 180SX that'd whoop yo ass"
Brad ·
Lets see your print out :P
Just read mine again and I actually only have 48 HP at the wheels .. Oops better get back in my Box.
IS your engine broken ? How come you didn't get the advertised 120 HP at the wheels ??
When is it coming out to play on the Beach with me ??
Baja Wes ·
c'mon craig and Brad, we wanna see both the dyno plots. See who's got a "corrected HP plot".
I'll have to dyno my tank one day. Will be interesting...
Bizarre ·
Nah
dont do it Wes
You might have to take down the 200 ponie signature at the bottom of your posts!
or
You might have to up it! :P
Peter Leonard ·
AT LAST!! some of these pics might even get posted... damned if i'm spending another three hours attempting to coax a resize out of my puter.. here's some of the initial puldown of my base 1916...
Peter Leonard ·
on de floor at last and about to strip... sounds a bit kinky 😀
Peter Leonard ·
pistons and cylinders.. damn those cruddy 94's 😉
you can see the unusual blackness on two of the pistons from some $%^#$%& muffler shop figuring that a new exhaust gasket with a hole the size of a twenty cent piece would do nicely... i was a little peeved to discover it.
Peter Leonard ·
the backbone of the steroids motor.. the custom pobjoy counterweighted crank.. mmmm *drooling noises* and some magic fingers doing their thing
Peter Leonard ·
while all this real building is going on, i'm playing with spraycans out the back and making 30yearold tinware look more like 20 year old tinware 😀 if you look real close you can see a frikken huge aeroplane engine parked behind stan's open wheeler... so i put my tinware near it all in the hopes some of it's HP would get soaked up 😉
Peter Leonard ·
at this point of the proceedings, i had to go and get a bib, and eventually hung a bucket around my neck to stem the flow of drool... it was only a matter of time.... lovely to see all the bits snick together like a well-choreographed .... something. 😀
notice the rusty ol 94s :thumb
Peter Leonard ·
Craig playing greasemonkey.. 😀
notice the devil-may-care attitude to flying shards of steel as we cobbled together a slightly better flowing exhaust system.... thanks again for the use of your tools and FLAT AREA!!!! and the scary MIG... got that new handset yet btw?
Peter Leonard ·
and now i'm going for a drive 😀
*sees how far he can chuck his puter*
Craig Torrens ·
I can see my new aluminium cases in the background😀😀 fresh from the good old USA
1 for the Road
1 for the Drags 😀
56astro ·
Peter Leonard wrote:notice the rusty ol 94s :thumb
They'll never work Pete, go smaller, GO SMALLER
VWCOOL ·
yeah, cos after 23 minutes and 16.3 seconds of use, they EXPLODE
BOOOM!
Baja Wes ·
I got brad's dyno chart;
Something I found interesting when looking at it. It was taken to 95kph in 3rd. With Brad's gearbox and tyres, it would only be doing about 3920rpm at 95kph. So his engine is making 48HP at 3920rpm. That ain't so bad.
Baja Wes ·
Here's something interesting. I have put together a flywheel HP chart for various aussie VW engines (and my V6 of course 😀 ).
Now what I have done is taken the wheel HP dyno plots and converted them to engine HP. To do this I divided the street cars by 83%, assuming a gearbox efficiency of 83%, which is about right for most drivelines.
Brad however is running big CV angles and the less efficient kombi gearbox, so I have dropped his efficiency to 75% to compensate.
Now Brad has heaps less HP, but his torque ain't so bad. Brad's peak torque is only a little off Jak's peak torque. The difference is Jak makes his 3000rpm higher than brad, hence the huge HP difference.
You see the race VW engines make peak torque at ~5000rpm. I am guessing they don't do much below 3000rpm.
Brad's engine makes peak torque at 2000rpm. Great for offroading and a torque monster. It is saying his heads and cam are too small, which he already knows. But under 3,000rpm Brad probably has the most powerful VW motor. Would need to see dyno charts for the other cars down to 2000rpm to be sure.
Brad ·
So Wes you saying my Engine Buider sucked with his combo of parts ?
damn I new I should have kept picking heads up till I found teh 044's.
Oh well life goes on with my stock out put Buggy Engine
amazer ·
Baja Wes wrote:I do know you can get workshops to put an SR20DET, 5 spd supra box and beefed up diff into a crap car like an old corolla for about $10,000. Good for about 220HP at the rear wheels and low second 14 second 1/4 mile passes, seriously limited by traction issues though.
Its so good to see that you guys can still argue a point till it goes round the block, your face goes blue, and still not solve anything, even in my absence. The narrowed beam rolls on, the 1916 rolls on. We really need to sit beer in hand around a BBQ at nambucca for dinner. Lunch time was too sedate.
Im fairly stoked with my hp figure, whatever it must be. 14.6ET in a kombi on uphill eastern creek. 220 at the wheels? awesome.
Baja Wes ·
amazer wrote:even in my absence.
absence? you mean you haven't been here? so that's why we've all been so misguided recently :P
Cam ·
Wes, have you chucked your engine on a dyno yet? If so those torque figures are way more than what I would of expected.
Baja Wes ·
I haven't dyno'd mine yet.
The stock KLZE makes 22.8kg/m of torque at 5500rpm. This converts to 165ft.lbs.
I have however got dyno charts for the ford probe, with the V6 in it.
The blue curve (stock probe) has an Oz/US issue KL-03 engine, which makes 123kW or 164.9HP (factory quote). Assuming 83% gearbox efficiency for a modern gearbox, it should achieve 0.83x165=about 137HP. You can see the blue curve is getting around 135HP so pretty damn close.
The red curve is a hotted up version of the KL-03.
The green curve is a jap issue KLZE which is supposed to make about 200HP and 165ft.lb of torque. The car with the KLZE was still running the a-spec computer which has the wrong VRIS points and fuel / ign curves for the KLZE, so the torque curve is not as strong as it should be, and starts tapering off. Still, assuming 0.83% efficiency it should make 166HP and 137ft.lbs of torque. You can see it is actually making 171HP and 165ft.lbs at the wheels. So it is performing better than the factory quote, probably due to the different exhaust and intake, but despite the wrong ECU.
Trust me, it's a nice motor.
Cam ·
Cool! I've seen a commodore V6 make 130 at the wheels in a VW. So it sounds about right. DOHC makes a big difference, but then 3.8 vs 2.4 (is it?) you're probably breaking even.
You should take it to a dyno day. You'd probably find Mazda clubs are doing them and would love to see the effect in a beetle.
Brad ·
The green curve is a jap issue KLZE which is supposed to make about 200HP and 165ft.lb of torque. The car with the KLZE was still running the a-spec computer which has the wrong VRIS points and fuel / ign curves for the KLZE, so the torque curve is not as strong as it should be, and starts tapering off. Still, assuming 0.83% efficiency it should make 166HP and 137ft.lbs of torque. You can see it is actually making 171HP and 165ft.lbs at the wheels. So it is performing better than the factory quote, probably due to the different exhaust and intake, but despite the wrong ECU.
Man you are a freak !!! Get out more !!!!
speedster356 ·
Man you are a freak !!! Get out more !!!!
If only we could harness those powers for evil..............
Brad ·
speedster356 wrote:If only we could harness those powers for evil..............
Some may say we already have ... the V6 baja will soon live again and its offspring the Maga manx will drive over th etop of it 😀
lugnuts ·
Buggy Brad wrote:
speedster356 wrote:If only we could harness those powers for evil..............
Some may say we already have ... the V6 baja will soon live again and its offspring the Maga manx will drive over th etop of it 😀
Ide like to see that a MAGNA MANX!:o
Brad ·
lugnuts wrote:
Buggy Brad wrote:
speedster356 wrote:If only we could harness those powers for evil..............
Some may say we already have ... the V6 baja will soon live again and its offspring the Maga manx will drive over th etop of it 😀
Ide like to see that a MAGNA MANX!:o
All in good time All in good time !!!
Baja Wes ·
lugnuts wrote:
Buggy Brad wrote:
speedster356 wrote:If only we could harness those powers for evil..............
Some may say we already have ... the V6 baja will soon live again and its offspring the Maga manx will drive over th etop of it 😀
Ide like to see that a MAGNA MANX!:o
Brad meant Mega Manx, he's just good at putting typos in his posts
:vader
Peter Leonard ·
geeez. and what's all this malarkey about 1915cc?:alien
just fitted the 50 buck dusty old tacho yesterday... fun to watch it go up now 😀 looks like it's time to sort out my ignition kit. also discovered i've been running my tires at 20psi. oops. no wonder i was squealing around ralleigh so much. my bad.
56astro ·
Don't need any more than 20psi unless you're on the track, Pete.
Having said that, with your new donk you're always on the "track"
Peter Leonard ·
really? i found it made a nice difference to the handling and the ability to get moving at the lights when i upped it to 35... also gets rid of some of the saggy feeling when you go round a roundabout. just noticed the way the tires were all baggy after driving for a while and thought to myself... "now that can't be right...." running at 20 is slightly more comfy on sydney 'roads', but 35 feels more responsive. took another punter for a ride the other day and the reaction was (white faced, clinging to the grab rail over the glovebox and the loopy thing next to the door)"Seven thousand RPM... feeling a little nervous here Pete..." although in his defence at the time we were moving at an obscene rate. there was also an unsettling rhythmic clanging noise coming from somewhere... which turned out to be the engine lid rattling itself free and banging in the wind 😀
and no-one's had a heart attack next to me yet 😀 still waiting for the next victim...maybe it's YOU!! BWAhaHAHaAhAhhAhahAhAhaha!!!!😎
amazer ·
I run 20psi front and 24 at the rear in my fastback. 40 in the kombi.
56astro ·
The manual states 18psi in the front; 24 (?) in the rear.
MickH ·
The manual may state those pressures,but times and tyres have changed. I've run 18psi in the front and 32 in the rear on all my beetles and type three's. The Kombi I run 40psi front and 42 in the rear. The Manx(depending on tyre combo) has been 15/25 in the front and 10/45 in the rear.Obviously it changes like the surfaces and driving conditions change......:bounce I don't run tubes in any of my tyres.
56astro ·
Good point Mick,
but anything over 30psi for the ROAD on such a light car is a bit rediculous!
MickH ·
Not one the rear of the Manx...If you hoot around corners the rears need to be hard. Have pulled tyres from the rims before. Especially with the larger tyres as the sidewalls are high and popping them off the rim is not fun. Tyre manufacturers have minimum pressures for there tyres (just ask them). The front of a vw does not normally get high loads due to the weight on the tyres being so low and the ride can get harsh if the pressures are high. Run at lower pressures to compensate. Tubed tyres can be run at lower pressures as the tube acts like a stiffener and also helps keep the tyre on the rim. Offroaders use tubes for this reason (and for ease of repair):tree
Baja Wes ·
Mick H wrote:The manual may state those pressures,but times and tyres have changed.
For one most manuals were written when VW's were fitted with cross-ply tyres.
I find I need higher pressure with my mud tyres to stop it wandering all over the road.
56astro ·
Pete's car is a car, with street tyres, not a mud-runner.
MickH ·
Would still rekon 30psi minimum is needed in the rear for a road car. With:bounce the xtra HP of his engine it would be unsafe to hoot around with the tyres not inflated fully. Like I said earlier...check with the tyre manufacturer for their minimum pressures/nominal pressures and you might find they would agree.