After the Manx Club Fraser trip I've decided that i'm gonna get another set of rear tyres to use on Offroad/Beach. What would all of you recommend? What would be the most suitable for my baja in terms of cost, reliability, life of the tyres, and performance? They wouldn't be used all the time, as I have an identical set of rims to put them on so I can run the fat rear tyres I have at the moment on the road and change them when I need to. All opinions would be welcome, thanks.
BJ ·
What are your current tyres?
Baja Wes ·
31x10.5R15 mud tyres. Mud tyres are the way to go. If you drive like Brad you can get away with street tyres, but if he had mudders he'd go even further.
Hell if they are only occasional use tyres I'd go for super swampers.
Scan the trading post or 2nd hand tyre shops and you should be able to get some for a decent price.
Brad ·
Mud tyres are for poofs :P:P
Nah seriously I would go Mud tyres if I wasn't to lazy to change em over. I have mud tyres on the Mega Manx
I like MTR's over BFG's but others would argue. Anything will do though in a 31 x 10.5
Boozer ·
Would they go good on sand as well?
mmmm those Super Swampers look good. Would I be able to run that size on the back with what I've got now? eg. 1500SP Swingaxle...
also the Super Swampers are a 6 ply tyre. I was running 5 ply when I first got it and they didn't bulge at all when on the beach at low pressures, even 5psi.
helterskelter400 ·
get some big bagged out speedway tyres for the sand.
if i use tyres (10.5r 15) and any sort of lug, i just go down in the wa sand. it just digs through instead of getting up & floating.
worn out soft sidewall tyres down to 0-3psi work fine... but big baggy soft speedway tyres would rule.
manxed69 ·
Boozer,
Think about raising your suspension as well, this will also help you get the larger tyres under your guards.
Baja Wes ·
well I have the advantage of having a test track in my yard. I have tried desert deuller 604V's, BFG mud tyres and the new Goodyear MTR mud tyres, and I can tell you this.
The 604V's suck in every condition.
The BFG mud tyres were the best offroad. They have the most open and aggressive tread pattern.
The MTR's weren't too much behind the BFG's, but I can notice a definite difference. The MTR's are better onroad than the BFG's, but that is to be expected when they aren't as aggressive offroad as the BFG's.
The bald floaty tyre technique doesn't seem to work on sand. I tried worn out dunlop tyres on the sand, and they were useless. The 604V's were crappy too (way too stiff sidewall). My old BFG mudders were the best, they had nice soft flexible sidewalls.
On the latest trip to fraser I ran my MTR's, but didn't push them very hard since I only let them down to 16psi. I instead was concentrating on figuring out the best driving technique with the new V6 motor.
The sand was particularly soft this year though...
handycam ·
i have allways used bfg muds and last time i got mickey tompsan baja claws thay were grate in mud and and the sand thay worked like a padel if u dont drive the boot in 2 much but dont get the radial get the bias ply😀
tonyg ·
Wes, I can't find the original thread...
FWIW, in my experience (yes, I've had some), what one needs is a set of tyres dedicated to sand running.
Completely bald, plenty wide rounded profile: pull revs, roll over sand, don't dig. enuf friction between grains of sand for fwd motion
worked for me
tonyg
Baja Wes ·
it's funny my experience is the opposite. Went the best with the most aggressive tyres, and the worst with the bald tyres.
I think when you have a lot of HP the aggressive tyres can act like paddles. I never got bogged with my BFG mud tyres.
I think if you don't have much HP, like a 4WD, then bald tyres are good cos they don't dig you in and you don't have enough HP to use mudders as paddles.
Daz Cat didn't get stuck this year, was driving around pulling people out, and he had goodyear MTR mud tyres on.
Brad does ok with street pattern tyres, only cos he drives like brad. he'd go better with mudders.
Brad ·
Baja Wes wrote:I never got bogged with my BFG mud tyres.
.
Maybe you should go back to them then :thumb:thumb
Baja Wes ·
For my next set I probably will.
When I bought the last set (MTR's), I could either buy them off a friends shop for $169 each, or buy BFG's from another shop for $270 each. Made the decision easy 😀
daz67 ·
Hmmm, lets see, Boozer just let your tyres down some more and then practice practice practice, its the only way to learn your own car. Last beach trip I had the same tyres and same setup engine, etc and did not feel half as capable. This time around as you have seen the Manx Rules....
You got to love driving around people who are stuck in 4Wd's and then pulling them out, or driving up the track and stopping half way then driving off again, only to see everyone(Except a couple) get stuck in the same track(V6 Baja included, Name withheld).
That should get some feedback happening!:vader
Baja Wes ·
Practice is definitely a good thing. I had never had the V6 on sand before, so it took me a few goes to figure out how to get it to work the best.
Attempt #1 - go slow in 1st, if the car slows then whack it in 2nd and gas it. Problem - not enough HP to spin 2nd gear at slow speed in soft sand.
Attempt #2 - go medium speed in 1st, and don't try to grab second. Problem - still too slow.
Attempt #3 - hit it fast at about 7500rpm in 1st and hold it there, success at last!
I would've liked to have tried tyre pressures lower than the 16psi I was running to see if it made much of a difference, but we all wanted to get to the camp site. I still haven't tried high and low pressures back to back on the same track on the same day yet.
Having said all that, I think you (boozer) need more ground clearance to help you get places. Bigger tyres will help add clearance.
Brad ·
Hey Wes is that you way of saying you got stuck and Manx's kicked your ASS ??:o
daz67 ·
Quote:"Practice is definitely a good thing. I had never had the V6 on sand before, so it took me a few goes to figure out how to get it to work the best.
Attempt #1 - go slow in 1st, if the car slows then whack it in 2nd and gas it. Problem - not enough HP to spin 2nd gear at slow speed in soft sand.
Attempt #2 - go medium speed in 1st, and don't try to grab second. Problem - still too slow.
Attempt #3 - hit it fast at about 7500rpm in 1st and hold it there, success at last!
I would've liked to have tried tyre pressures lower than the 16psi I was running to see if it made much of a difference, but we all wanted to get to the camp site. I still haven't tried high and low pressures back to back on the same track on the same day yet. "
Hmmm, let me see I remember the Patrol Vs Baja commemnts, something like"The Baja just roostered up the hill", well the Manx just crawled on through without any excessive reving or wheel spin.
So Wes, time to strip that Heavy old tin top off and throw a Manx Body on that baby.:kiss
Go the Manx..........😀😀😀😀😀
Baja Wes ·
daz Cat wrote:...well the Manx just crawled on through without any excessive reving or wheel spin.
We're obviously not talking about Brad's Manx then 😀 He's got more excessive revs and wheelspin than a 17 yr old driving a gemini in the wet.
Besides, wasn't the first car to get stuck in the sand a Manx? :P
Brad ·
Baja Wes wrote:We're obviously not talking about Brad's Manx then 😀 He's got more excessive revs and wheelspin than a 17 yr old driving a gemini in the wet.
Besides, wasn't the first car to get stuck in the sand a Manx? :P
1st car stuck was actually a cruiser 😀
Coment by Wes when he saw the video of him getting bogged... twice
I thought I could go slow as darryl did and he got through no problems at all
Give it up Wes your Baja has lost its touch and now you are almost a house owner you drive like shit :o
Baja Wes ·
From buggy Brad
Quote from Wes
Coment by Wes when he saw the video of him getting bogged... twice
I thought I could go slow as darryl did and he got through no problems at all
Give it up Wes your Baja has lost its touch and now you are almost a house owner you drive like shit :o
Gee that's a bit harsh :P
I agree Daz Cat made it look easy, what can I say, he's the man. But since you drive a manx and had to drive like a luny to get through obviously the manx isn't what's making Daz Cat go well.
It's obviously the driver, Daz obviously has far superior driving skills.
I have never seen brad do any obstacle at a speed other than flat revs in first, which shows no vehicle ability, just a disrespect for machinery :P
Jamox ·
Brad ·
From Wesley
I have never seen brad do any obstacle at a speed other than flat revs in first, which shows no vehicle ability, just a disrespect for machinery
Note the catch words there is do do do do, not sit back and cry about my paint or my inability to drive it fast :P:P
Besides I drive slow, I was driving slow when I turned in front of you on the beach :o
daz67 ·
Quote: "I agree Daz Cat made it look easy, what can I say, he's the man. "
Anyone would think you guys liked taking the piss out of each other:repuke
Now kiss and make up till next time:kiss
MickH ·
just looked at all the available Fraser trip photos.....how come most people have soft cock road tyres fitted???None of the tread patterns looked very agressive!! Hey Wes...stick a set of my rears on and dig your way to China!:bounce
daz67 ·
Quote:"just looked at all the available Fraser trip photos.....how come most people have soft cock road tyres fitted???None of the tread patterns looked very agressive!! Hey Wes...stick a set of my rears on and dig your way to China!
"
============================================================
Just looked at your tyres!!!
They don't look anymore aggressive than anyone elses?
What are they?
Wes has Goodyear Wrangeler MTR's front and rear, same as mine.
Short of a set of Simex or sand paddles, there is not much more aggressive for road legal use.
MickH ·
So where did you see my tyres???:jesus
Baja Wes ·
When I was at your house I saw your tyres :P
I had sand paddles but they didn't survive the trip up the highway 😀
kidding 🙂
MickH ·
When are you lookin at getting your beast back on the road??:cryBIG difference in the clutch plates....OOPS OFF TOPIC. sorry.
Brad ·
Mick H wrote:just looked at all the available Fraser trip photos.....how come most people have soft cock road tyres fitted???None of the tread patterns looked very agressive!! Hey Wes...stick a set of my rears on and dig your way to China!:bounce
man you are on drugs !!!
unless you have swampers or sumthin on your buggy which you can't have casue your body would get riped of your street pan I bet you have much more street orientated tyres than several of the buggies and baja's there.
MickH ·
As I said"it looked like most people had @#$%@& road tyres fitted" and from available photos it does. Some tyres look the part (daz etc) but the majority look like streeters? I would not say mine were paddles or anything but they are very good in the mud and sand. Was only making an observation........also if I were on drugs I WOULD SHARE:bounce
I looked at the picture of your Buggy in the Members section of the Manx Club.
But you have posted better pics.
The Street Tyres on the Beach work Ok just need the tyre pressures right.
Boozer ·
Mick H wrote:stick a set of my rears on and dig your way to China!:bounce
but I already can! I just find some soft sand, slow down and then gas it and viola! the rear end digs in. but that's the problem!
I was thinking of spending the cash and getting either a set of Super Swampers (pic 1), SS TSL Boggers (Pic 2), or SS TSL SX (pic 3). I'm leaning towards the SX's cause they've got better sidewall protection and tread with the same tread pattern as the original SS. whad'ya rekon?
tonyg ·
Like I said before, smooth round shouldered tyres work best on sand. Useless on mud, illegal on road. They dont make lots of little hills of sand to have to roll over, hence more power to forward motion. Look at it at a macrpo level. less aggressive pattern for sand opposite for mud.
my 2c worth (again)
tonyg
helterskelter400 ·
as before, i'm with tonyg.
i dont know about high hp motors but i know my low hp 1600 and that its better in sand with big baggy rounded profle tyres - down to 5pound & less when stuck & tide is rising and darkness is falling...
MickH ·
I really think you would be wasting your hard earnt cash unless either they are - legal on the road or will fit under your guards. Your money might be better spent getting some clearance and height first and sticking to some more practical tyre combo (MTR's etc). The ones fitted to mine are Toyo Tranpath series 2 10.5 R15. They do not offer the amount of sidewall protection of the MTR's but I don't do a lot of rock work !! Cape York 4wd hire use Toyo's on all their vehicles as they were the best that they tried in the sand and mud and shedded mud well. They use MTR's if they go to very rocky locations. The only downside to the Toyo is that they are directional tyres but they are also lighter than other brands:bounce. Good luck!!! Just my opinion......
I've changed my mind I'm gonna go with the BFG Mud tires. there was a really (they were almost smooth and you could see wires in one bit) really worn pair of them on the back of Dozer when wew got it. Damn the list keeps getting longer not shorter... i need a new carbie, front and back tires, rust removal, water proofing, new shocks possibly, lift the front end, and then maybe a body lift so I can put bigger tires underneath. It didn't use to be this long!
Baja Wes ·
helterskelter400 wrote:as before, i'm with tonyg...
better in sand with big baggy rounded profle tyres...
I'm not convinced. I have never seen bald old aircraft style tyres do any better on a buggy / baja in the real soft stuff.
For the bald theory to work, you need to be crawling through the sand. Working on the going slow and having the tyres float over everything. Now on a 2+ tonne 4WD with no power, I have seen this technique successfully used with 1st gear low range.
However, if you are in a buggy / baja and the sand is really soft, the front wheels will try to stop you. the going slow and floating technique is obviously not working and that is why the car is starting to get stuck. We all saw at Fraser that anyone attempting the go slow technique got stuck.
In the really soft QLD fine summer sand, the best way to get through the really soft bits is with heaps of speed and a heavy foot. I don't see how bald tyres could be any better in this situation. I tried the one cutting slow with even throttle, I got stuck. I then tried it with a medium amount of speed, and a constant throttle, I got stuck again. Then I tried it going fast with lots of sand digging throttle, and it made it through fine.
11CAB ·
I havent had a great deal of sand driving experience, just the beach trip once or twice a year, and I'm using All Terrains on the Kombi, the year before last I was running 14psi in the tyres and it went OK, last year I ran 10psi and noticed a huge difference in how much easier it was. Also I've noticed all the Baja Bugs over on Moreton Island are using the Bald Aircraft tyres and these are the guys who live there and use them everyday to go fishing etc.
helterskelter400 ·
man, the last thing i want to do in deep puss ridden sand is go slow. you gotta get up & plane on the surface.
just like the bike, get up on the pegs, get the weight back & fang it. (mind you, the last thing i want on the bike is a bald tyre - but then; its got HP).
low hp and big lugged tyres dont let me get any speed, no power to snatch 2nd & so you just paddle it through in 1st or get bogged.
this is where the big bagsters are meant to save you from getting bogged, if you do come to a stop, you can spin them & snatch 2nd hopefully avouding digging in, slowing down & going down.
i spose the theroy is that if you do go down, the big bags help to lift the wheels back to the surface & get you planeing rather than just chewing your way through on your pan like a paddle steamer.
i will undertake more research this summer...
daz67 ·
Quote:"We all saw at Fraser that anyone attempting the go slow technique got stuck. "
==========================================================================================
Wes, I do beleive you are incorrect, only the big fat Baja's got stuck going slow.
The Buggies Kicked Ass.......
I crawled upto where you got stuck, then stopped as the trailer was being recovered. Then from a standing start, drove up the side track which was uphill even further.
For all those guys running 16 psi in your tyres, air down, I had 5-6 psi in both rears, drove around on Fraser for a week, towed a Landcruiser, snatched Brad(nearly out of his seat), towed Terry in the Country Bug through Indian Head and drove everywhere without a drama, even waited to make sure the hilux was safe a couple of times(It was).
Final Words AIR PRESSURE !!!!!!!!!:thumb
MickH ·
I agree.....and practice:bounce:tree
Baja Wes ·
daz67 wrote:Wes, I do beleive you are incorrect, only the big fat Baja's got stuck going slow.
The Buggies Kicked Ass.......
I crawled upto where you got stuck, then stopped as the trailer was being recovered. Then from a standing start, drove up the side track which was uphill even further.
two problems. (1) - you weren't going that slow and you didn't stop in the soft stuff.
(2) - you were running mud tyres, so the bald tyre technique couldn't have helped.
What I am saying is I have never seen the bald tyres go any better than anything else. Tom had balding tyres on his buggy, it got stuck. Terry had a country buggy with very bald soft sidewall tyres with very little pressure, he got stuck (granted they were quite thin).
I don't want to run 5psi with slippery chrome rims and a V6 unless I get some bead locks, as I am scared of ripping the tyres off the rims.
I just know when I ran bald tyres on my car on the beach it sucked.
When we went to fraser last year, I did it very easy, with mud tyres. This year I had to go harder to make it, maybe the sand was softer, maybe the V6 has made the Baja too heavy. Since so many buggies got stuck, I will bet on the soft sand this year.
Other cars that went well, Daz, mud tyres. Brad went ok but the slowest I saw him go was about 60kph so I am sure momentum helped.
When I have been to stockton two cars have gone particularly well. Mike Sharp, running 15 inch wide very agressive rear tyres, and Kevin jones running 33inch tall mud tyres.
All I am saying is I have never seen the bald tyre technique work on a VW. And there is no way mud tyres are any worse than bald tyres.
What I really need is some sand paddles... 😀
daz67 ·
QUOTE:"(1) - you weren't going that slow and you didn't stop in the soft stuff. "
Check the Video, I stopped where the Land cruiser dropped the trailer, I then started again and drove up the hill to the side. Not sure If you have the e-mail I sent but I have proposed a Day at Bribie Island equiped with some comparison tyres.
What do you think?
We could make a day of it and learn something along the way.
Oh Yeah, Buggies Rule!!!!!!
11CAB ·
Hmmmm......Bribie Island, Old 33 inch BFG Mudders & Kombi's dont mix......well not in my experience anyway
bajaman64 ·
Has anyone used Simex Centipede MT's?
I was going to get a set of BFG muddies but not so sure now. From what i have heard, the Simex tyres weigh less than the BFG's and from what i see on the web site, they are just as aggressive. This cant be bad if you have an underpowered car.
Will be interested in the results from the test session on Bribie island.
Todd :jesus
Baja Wes ·
daz67 wrote:Check the Video
I will have to get a copy off Brad and I will check it, but your still running mud tyres.
Not sure If you have the e-mail I sent ...
No, no I don't. What email address did you send it to this time? my email address is baja@offroadvw.net .
bajaman64 ·
Had a look at and got a quote today for Simex Centipedes. Only $170 each fitted! That is $100 each cheaper than BFG muddies. They only come in 31 10.5x15.
I noticed the sidewall felt thinner and the compound was softer than the BFG's.
Check them out yourself. I couldnt justify the extra $100 each.
Todd :jesus
Baja Wes ·
Simex are awesome tyres, if you can get a set for $170 each, go for it :thumb
they look real cool 😎
daz67 ·
Quote:"Had a look at and got a quote today for Simex Centipedes. Only $170 each fitted! "
Man that sounds too cheap....
Just check and make sure they fit within your torsion bars, my Mud tyres only just fit.
bajaman64 ·
With 3x3 trailing arms, space is not a problem. Wider and longer. Now i just have to get them. $$$$
Todd :jesus
Brad ·
I can't believ this thread is still going.
Boozer - FORGET TYRES get some ground clearance front and rear before you do anything else. Then better gearing and then maybe tyres.
If anyone out there wants to run simex or Baja Claws or any other hard core 4 x 4 tyre you had better be ready to break stuff and get stuck lots. If you can't spin them then you will go NO WHERE in your buggy / baja. Yeah you can crawl but one wheel only tracks for so long then you need momentum to get you through.
The Fraser trip saw a lot of people getting stuck in the sand. It was no softer than any other year. I got STUCK due to my own stupid driving, no other reason. I could have been in the hilux with lockers and still been stuck by pulling off the track like I did.
I ran 15 PSI on fraser cause I stuffed up my deflators and used the hilux one. Then I was to busy gas bagging to bother checking them.
My buggy will happily crawl with 5 PSI in the rear tyres anywhere it feels like (within reason)on sand and yes I am happy to prove it. I run Street tyres.
Driving on sand is all about tyre pressure and has nothing to do with pattern. I have articles here where they have done exactly what Dazcat suggestes with $wd at Stockton and had to eat their words as the cheese cutters worked just as well as the 10rs with the same pressure in.
The old Aeroplane tyre crap is just that. I have tried them and they are a myth. Pre modern tyres, yes they were best but that was 30 years ago. Current tyres are better, safer and easier to get.
As for Wes and his theory he can't run low pressure.. get over it have you ever actually spun a tyre on the rim ?? Answer NO... so in you own words stop crapping on about something you can't prove and start driving like less of a poof :repuke
So who is coming up the beach this weekend to watch WEs get stuck again ??
daz67 ·
Quote:"So who is coming up the beach this weekend to watch WEs get stuck again ?? "
==========================================================================================
I'll be there to watch that!
Baja Wes ·
Buggy Brad wrote:As for Wes and his theory he can't run low pressure.. get over it have you ever actually spun a tyre on the rim ??
I didn't say I can't, I said I am scared to as I may spin a tyre on a rim. I don't carry a spare so I don't want a flat. I have spun many motorbike tyres on their rims so know it ain't that hard to do.
but you don't have to be scared of doing it with your 48HP :P
But we are never going to get anywhere with this arguement. Like other things people will have their own opinions. You just gotta look at the different people, what they've tried, take it all with a grain of salt and then try stuff for yourself :thumb
handycam ·
i agre with u wes we all have our own way of doing things some beter than others but if u all make it 2 the same spot on the day the:beer is wat u should make shore u all have 😀
tonyg ·
sumbuddy suggesting I is old? what a hide, I'm only 60. Still young for a rev head. Smooth tyres still work on sand, does not matter how old you is. You still gotta have enuf KW. Of course if you is after acceleration, then that is another matter, hence paddle tyres, (smooth tyres with upstanding blades if my alzheimer befuddled brain cells (or is that too much 60's dope?)recall correctly.
manxed69 ·
Buggy Brad wrote:So who is coming up the beach this weekend to watch WEs get stuck again ??
Sorry Brad I can't make it. Can you please take the photos and post them on the Manx Club Site?