Narrowed beam Ride Video

for everyone that said a narrowed beam without shocks wont ride good, watch this. Quintin Daily's 50 split, 5 inch narrowed beam, dropped spindles, and NO front shocks.
http://www.lowlifevw.com/frdata_split.html

yeah great,
the road looks glass smooth, I'd to see it on some fine Aussie roads, crossing train lines taking speed humps, pot holes ect. and with no front shocks I'd like to see an emergency stop from 50 mph, ever heard of wheel tramp?

wont ride good? WTF, must have a different idea about what constitutes a good ride.

Nice car.. Awesome video. But how do I save it?

Yeah great video, but the guy is driving along a dead flat straight road... you carnt really tell from outside the car !!!

yeah they do all the crossing of train tracks etc.....

they have smooth roads but that doesnt mean they dont have trains, spead humps, gutters into dairy queen etc....

dont tell them what they have to do, ask them and talk to them and see what they do do.......!

cheers scott !!

:thumb

Once again, Skewy provides some good advice. Actually, that road isnt glass smooth. I drive it everyday. And Mind you, That a layed out car isnt made for driving down Dirt roads and shit.

funky music too!:P

jonno

yeah true, not made for dirt tracks but i read about u guys crossing train tracks dragging your ass and all, angled up for speed humps and all the other sh!t...

anyway, loving it !

Hey All, Cars with Narrowed beams, YEs they have to drive slow over speed humps and train tracks ect. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE SAME IN ANY LOWERED VEHICLE. WHO DRIVES THEIR LOWERED CAR AT A REGULAR SPEED OVER TRAIN TRACKS, ANSWER- NO-ONE.

Get over it people. It annoys me cause as soon as you try and do something different, BAM, Your hit with a baseball bat. People you also got to remember, When putting in adjusters, do you not cut your beam and reweld? Whats the difference, other than you've taken a bit more out?

N! PS, Great Vid, Scott!

yeah, so it don't ride good, thats the point,the vid is suposed to be proof that it does.
It may look cool to some but no matter how you look at it the ride is never going to be good.

Give me some suspension travel over lookin' cool any day.

Who said it dont ride good? Jump in a ferrari, It drives GREAT, But cause its so low, you need to slow down at the train tracks.

N!

And about suspension travel, Ever heard of dropped spindles. These give you a drop in suspension, while still having travel.

You see thats your opinion, now I could start saying negative things about that, but what for... cause I dont like "Raised" cars, doent mean I should talk bad about them. Others Like their cars going fast, without looking good. Again thats their decision...

N!

Hi all,

I've got nothing against lowered or raised cars, but running a car with no shocks?!!? Isn't that a little dangerous? Nothing to stop the tyres acting like basketballs if you hit hole/undulations in the road!

I personally am experiencing this problem with my company car (no it's not a VW but the same principal applies). It only has one bad shock on the front (the other was replaced when it was bent in an accident). As the shock has become worse the handling and traction of this vehicle has become noticably worse. OK, so this car is a front wheel drive, but the braking on uneven surfaces is dramatically worse. On the positive side - that shock is being replaced on its next service (next week) 🙂

All that said, love the lowered look...

R

Read this...

http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=14257

N!

Hmmm, point taken.

R

yeah, we dont need to rehash what already happened. My point of posting this Vid was to show that the car does ride good.
Syncro, reguardless of how the road Looks, you can see the wheel moving up and down in the vid. And If you knew very much about lowered cars in general, Even a nice road, will make a slammed car ride like shit, Because of the lack in suspension travel. My beater has a 5 inch narrowed beam with dropped spindles and No shocks, and I actually have more travel than I need, If I stand on the front bumper, and jump on it a few times, I can get the apron to hit the ground because of the amount of travel That I do have. Not that My apron would hit the ground while driving though, I would have to jump it off of something to do that. And as for driving over railroad tracks and the like, You should slow down over those not because of suspensin stuff, but because hitting some tracks at ANY height speed can ruin tie rods. And who the hell aims for potholes? I try to avoid them because they can damage your tires, whelther Im driving my stock height Mazda protoge 5, or my layed out bug, I always try to avoid that type of stuff.

i used to roll a lowered with adjusters only bug with shocks. that car road like a tank. i now have a 4 inch narrowed beam with adjusters, drop spindles, and no shocks, the car rides like a caddilac. sure in the video the road does look like glass, but in actuality, it's not. sure there are no pot holes, speed bumps, or train tracks, but in any other lowered vehicle that road would make the car bounce all over the place. have you ever road in a sports car? given their suspentions are supposed to be stiff, but the question is would you slow down over train tracks and speed bumps, or try to avoid a pot hole in the road. i've had to slam on the brakes in my car, and there wasn't wheel hop like you guys are talking about, but with 135s in the front there was a little skidding going on.

driving a lowered car is definitley different than driving a stock car, and ofcourse the ride is not the same. you just have to pay more attention to the surface of the road.

sorry for the novel of a post

Some people just don't understand....

Has anyone who has narrowed their beam actually said it was a stupid idea???

It seems to me that all the people being negative about it have never done it or even been in a car with one... so work that out...

just read the above mentioned thread, woah! there's been some discussion to say the least. Sounds like its been well sorted, still not conviced about the lack of shocks, but if your just going slow it wouldn't make much difference.

Driven plenty of sports cars and lowered cars, I grew up around historic racing and have even owned lowered VW's, lowered cars are a pain in the arse around town the lower you go the worse it gets.

just to show I do know about lowered cars this was my daily driver in 1996


like I said in my first post,must have a different idea about what constitutes a good ride.

each to there own.

I said they were not good, I narrowed a king and link front end 60mm, it still had shocks!, drove it to nambucca in '99. I put a lowered STD width beam back in when I got back, much better.

It drove bad, wandered all over the road at 100 k's. alignment was good, it's just that short tie rod thing, the RH wheel moves in and out much more as you hit bumps, it has too, it simple geometry.

Maybe rack and pinion steering could be fitted, it may steer better.

Each to there own, That is a cool video clip, I'd like to see it go through Buladela bends :o

Thats a kool video and luv the music. Especially like that split. Nice :thumb

Dont have an opinion on the lowering job.

Gents the sad news is no shocks is illegal regardless of how cool or orrible pending on your outlook it aint legal

personaly low and flatout is cool for me and at 84000 miles in 3 and a bit years some bounce is good

Toybug, dont start on the legal side of things.....Its all been said. Botton line is it is also illegal, to drive around with yuor stereo blasting, but it doesnt stop anyone...

N!

PS Its also illegal in the states, so dont be thinking they can get away with it...

thanks for the kind words on the video...

cheers

scott

My pc at work won't let me see it, will have to find another pc over the weekend to check it out.

Dave_ steering geometry is not a problem with our cars, We use a Quicksteer ( which is a sandrail part) to lengthen out pitman arm, which stops that problem, and, as stated in the other thread, when narrowing your beam so far, the drivers side tie rod tends to just swing side to side when turning the wheel, so lenghtining the pitman arm stops that problem.

Dave this has been sorted out also. All you have to do is legthen the pitman arm to regain the proper geometry. And Empi makes a product to do this. Its called a "Quick steer". This cuases the steering to be alittle tighter, but in the automotive world everything is give and take. Also flipping the teirods from going into the spindles from the top and making them go into the spindles from the bottom get rid of "bump steer". This is common knowledge to people who are "in the know" in the VW community. There have been many many article over the years on that subject. And it is a common problem in all lowered cars not just cars with narrowed beams.

It is people like you who try something and give up that are stuck like a stick in the mug. Instead of saying "wow one wheel moves more than the other", you know what I did???? I said "why does it do that"??? And when I answered that question I move to the next one. "How can I fix that"... Then I fixed it because I am a "doer" not a "cant doer". I built a 4 inch narrowed beam for my friend, aligned it, set the steering, and he goes straight down the 1/4 mile track ET of 11:90 full body car. It doesnt swerve, it doesnt wonder.. It goes straigth.

I bet when you set your tierods you didnt set your steering box at the high point. That would cause the car to wonder. Why dont you take a course at your local "higher learning center" in Automotive Supsension and learn things like SAI(steering axis inclination), Caster, And other adjustable and non ajustable angles and then we can have an intelligent conversation about Automotive suspension. Other wise I have to dismiss your comments as ignorance, not stupidity, but ignorance (IE lack of knowledge and/or understanding).

toybug has had his share of Mr Plod pull ups I guess....🙁

He likes to ride low....... and fast.....and open....😎

adjusters are illegal over here right?

who on here rolls with adjusters ?

Bag loads of ya's !!

Im thinking theres many things we do that are illegal it all depends on the degree that you step over,on a scale of 1-10 ide put an adjuster which is almost invisible to sgt.plod at 1 and no shocks at 6.But hey ima nice guy so do watcha want and hava nice day yall.😉

so lugnuts let me get this right rolling with adjusters on the 'illegal scale' is a one and no shocks is a six then where does murder,rape ad pedaphilea come in at? if you ask me then no shocks and adjusters are the same on the 'illegal scale'

I thought we we talken bout cars,but anyway yes sounds right,adjusters>1,no shocks>6,murder>9,rape>10.😉

adjust your top adjuster to work against your bottom one. Then they won't bounce. Locks up your front end, but no bounce 😀

Anyhoo, verra nice rides you boys have over there. World class, something for us to live upto.

Cheers!

People editing my shit again must be some lame ass jelous fucker...
English hows this for english
Fuck
yourself admin...

Hey Scott hows that ozlook goin..:sandrine

you will see it when its done.

is the RHD taking off over there is it?
the new cal look ? 😀

:thumb

Theres no use trying to educate a bunch of meat heads they where all running 14 inch bathurst globes sporting the mullholland look only a few years ago.You would get more response pissing against a wall they know shit about anything accept giving shit.Why waste your time...
Losers true blue..

by the way
wat colour is that split beetle, anyone know the paint code?

ive read trayle D's ejustification for fitting no socks and feel the need to add some comments.

a stock beam has stock length torsion leaves that have a certain value of spring rate, this is designed to match the various dry and gross weights of the bug under all circumstances. all springs under load have natural harmonics. natural harmonics in the suspension of a car need to be eliminated. this is what shocks do.

when trayle narrows a beam he shortens the torsion leaves. these torsion leaves still have the same springyness but the force needed to move the wheels up is increased as the rate of twist on each leaf is increased.

as you change the spring rate you change the natural harmonic frequencies that the beam has. these harmonics still exist and will exist under some driving conditions.

you will have to calculate these frequencies and pay a shock manufacturer like, spax, koni, bilstien etc to make a custom shock suited to damp the natural harmonic frequencies that would occur.

its what ALL motorsport team do. its why the shock on the WRC works mitsubishi we have in the workshop cost £5000 each.

i respect what the GF do with paint and bodies but dont for one second get paint and panel confused with dynamics and safety.

Thats your opinion.....No-one here is telling everyone to narrow their beam, and not to put shocks on, its your own choice, but critisizing someones choice is a little wrong.

And one last thing, Do you really think that the GFK would risk damaging these rides of their's? Think for just a second....Have you thought yet?

N!

I'm so not getting into this.

They cruise in these cars, they don't fang 'em about, which is fine! Start driving like I do and you'll have problems. Infact you won't have problems, because they'll just understeer straight off the bat. So you'll stick to cruising.

wow, such a catfight!


horses for courses is what I say

Thats your opinion.....No-one here is telling everyone to narrow their beam, and not to put shocks on, its your own choice, but critisizing someones choice is a little wrong.

And one last thing, Do you really think that the GFK would risk damaging these rides of their's? Think for just a second....Have you thought yet?

N!




did steve irwine say something like this? i suppose it would take a 6.6 earthquake to make a GFK car with no shocks lose control 😀

In my opinion Steve Irwin did nothing wrong, cause the footage doesnt show any of the other people in the enclosure telling him what the croc is doing, and for all those people who say "but the baby had no choice" A baby has no choice to get in a car that some dickhead parent speeds in either, Whats more dangerous? I say speeding! But thats another story. I bet anyone that has a massive motor has more of a chance of losing control of their car, than someone with a norrowed beam with no shocks.

But hey, believe what you want, Im over it!

N!

jimby wrote:ive read trayle D's ejustification for fitting no socks and feel the need to add some comments.

a stock beam has stock length torsion leaves that have a certain value of spring rate, this is designed to match the various dry and gross weights of the bug under all circumstances. all springs under load have natural harmonics. natural harmonics in the suspension of a car need to be eliminated. this is what shocks do.

when trayle narrows a beam he shortens the torsion leaves. these torsion leaves still have the same springyness but the force needed to move the wheels up is increased as the rate of twist on each leaf is increased.

as you change the spring rate you change the natural harmonic frequencies that the beam has. these harmonics still exist and will exist under some driving conditions.

you will have to calculate these frequencies and pay a shock manufacturer like, spax, koni, bilstien etc to make a custom shock suited to damp the natural harmonic frequencies that would occur.

its what ALL motorsport team do. its why the shock on the WRC works mitsubishi we have in the workshop cost £5000 each.

i respect what the GF do with paint and bodies but dont for one second get paint and panel confused with dynamics and safety.

At what point and with what formula will you use to factor in the two beams fighting eachother with the adjusters spread apart more that factory???? This also has an effect on the "spring rate" and the way that the sprung wieght of the car is distributed. If you read my posts closely youll see that I have also said that custom suspension is aways "give and take". You can not do one thing in one direction with it and not expect it to effect something else in a totaly different way. But if you want my opinion of what a narrowed beam narrowed more than 4.5 inches without shocks rides like???? Well, it rides much, much better than any other lowered VW Ive ever rode in, and I have 17 years of custom VW experience. And any of my customers would say the same.

i respect what the GF do with paint and bodies but dont for one second get paint and panel confused with dynamics and safety.

Im not sure what this is implying but I assure you, I am a moog certified mechanic with an accosiates degree in Automotic and Autotronics, not some know nothing, clueless, lack of theory, shade tree mechanic that has come up with a baseless theory. I have been working on this for more than 10 years. My experties has nothing to do with "paint and bodies". Now, I respect your knowledge of WRC mitsubishi shocks, but dont for one second confuse WRC mitsubishis with VW front suspension. That would be a bit like comparing MacPherson Strutt suspension to a 4 link suspension, or even modified MacPherson which are completely different than leaf sping suspensions or the horizontal leaf spring suspension that VW uses. They all are inherintly different and react differently to sprung wieght. This is to say nothing of shocks, which are mearly dampening devices. But if we are speaking of dampening devices now, there are many many different way to creat damening. Some of which have nothing at all to do with a gas/air/oil filled canister. These systems uses compresable items to absorb road irregularities. But they are not the only invention to ever do this. Just the latest.But with that in mind, VW suspension itself is out dated. This arguement could go on forever. You do what you do. One day it will all come out in the wash. I already know the truth, Ive been doing it for years. Your understanding or lack there of makes no difference to whether it works or not. It does without your understanding or aproval.