saddam has been caught!!!!!

Yep - they've just done a DNA test and proved it so.

:vader

Squiz.....

yeah, they confirmed he's still as ugly as a hat full of bum's !

'bout time too, i reckon they must have run out of places to raid !

😀

I reckon they have had him for quite some time, If they would have let it be known they would have been made to pull out long before they had secured their objectives, It is the best time to tell the world they have him NOW it suits their purposes.
Rob....

Now for the mysterious
"Weapons of Mass Destruuction"
The US has had heaps of time to plant some. Tossers

WTF are they gonna hold him for?

He has been charged with nothing. There are no UN resolutions authorising his capture by a foreign force.

If anyone has a cause for justice it is the Iraqis ... not "justice" under the star spangled swastika.

War crimes and crimes against humanity I would say

heh, I said to my friend last night. "I wonder how long it will take for the conspiracy theorist's to start rambling" :P

Yep, crimes against humanity, should of happened 20 years ago 😠

Yes, crimes. But not for the US to capture and try without any formal charges.

No conspiracies Cam.

George W Bush is a War Criminal too but the no one is pursuing him...

No, George W is just un-qualified and so is 70% of his administration. It would of been similar to hiring a bunch of us for president. He only got their because of his old man.

Yeah I'm with hotrodmatt, if you look at the history of saddam and the US, its the US who are as much at fault as Saddam. Read a bit of Chomsky to get a excellent, not so biased view of the going-ons ...

For some wierd reason, i feel a bit for Saddam, he has been the puppet for US administrations for many, many years - and now he'll get tried for it... meh just another smear on US administrations, and they wonder why the rest of the world don't like the US ... :o

... and if you really want to go a bit more extreme, read some Michael Moore 😀

yeahh i actually felt for him aswell

i donno why but i just did

how long do ya reckon he was hiding in that thing for????

dom

Go tell the families of the Iraqis that he has had killed that you feel sorry for him.
Go tell all the families of the Kurds that were gassed that YOU feel sorry for him.
Of all the crap that has been posted over the last 12 months about this. the above 2 are so full of crap, you might not like the yanks but to say you feel sorry for him .
Just thank your luckie lives that you live in Australia.

I wont comment any more about this as if I do the post will be deleted. and I want others to see how ridiculous your comments are!!!

I totally agree with 57kombi you guys have got to be kidding.
But hey I supose you are the same people or decendants of those who protested the return soldiers from Vietnam. You are either total tossers or just fishing for bites.😠😠

lol

come to think of it!!!!:o

*** DA ****!!!!

DOM

Dom, please refrain form using language like this, we have to read it remember. Language like that will not be tolerated.

Ahh.. Politics. Always a great thread for a heated arguement & debate..

I could say things like 'it's an intended Chrissy present...by Bush' etc....increase popularity at a time of year it will be remembered most etc.......

Bought the paper today and this thread has reminded me to read it.....Pic on the front of 'The Age' made me think he hasn't been to his beautician for some time....hair needs some colour and a style....


People like him do need to be caught....but it does happen at a very convenience or orchestrated time of year....

Hmmmm, am I pesamistic or something? Must be why I loved sociology so much....:jesus

think election..... and think illiterate thieving bum.😀

hey did they find osama down there too?

Saddam whosux and his Sons have Raped, Hurt, and Killed thousands of people.
They have lived like Kings, while there people have Starved and died from preventable disease.

I cant believe some of you feel sorry for him.

I suppose Julian Knight and Martin bryant are good Blokes as well.

Don't think any of us feel sorry for him.....

Cetainly don't feel sorry for him. Just sux that it was done under the star spangled swastika of the US.

They need to sort out their own junta supporting white collar despots before others.

Saddam would have met his end from his own people rising against him soon enough. Instead of snactions the US should have been providing suport to Iraqis opposed to the regime. Not leaving them to die unsupported like they did after the last insurgence...

Yeah I feel for him as well,
you know it is that feeling you get when you hear about someone abusing animals or small children (well he and his family did both as well as the rest of the crimes they committed). He abused his own people and unlike some opinions I have heard, not just here, I do not think his people would have risen up and thrown him off. Didn't happen in Bosnia, hasn't happened in Tibet so far so I fail to see how a number of disorganised poorly armed and poorly trained civvies could hope to throw off a (relatively) well trained and armed military/political body such as what existed there. As much at fault as the US is in this matter, and they are up to it pretty deep, no one else was going to act or had the force to be able to act and easily win. Now comes the hard part, getting people to take responsibility for their own lives without resorting to just shooting people who disagree with their beliefs. Thats what we shoudl all be gratefull for by being here in Australia, as cheesy as it sounds, you don't know how lucky we are till you get to see what others put up with in the hope of just seeing out another winter while we complain about whether to buy an X box or a playstation 2 to just have about the house.
There, thats my rant, pretty controlled for how I feel about this.

jesus, I dunno !?

maybe...........

:thumb

frenzix, well put!!
i only found out they caught him 3 hours ago.
to do what he did to his own and the worlds people is inexcusable. but the US is far from faultless, think Hiroshima.

This planet is full of very stupid hairless apes... 😠

Da Wiz wrote:Yeah I'm with hotrodmatt, if you look at the history of saddam and the US, its the US who are as much at fault as Saddam. Read a bit of Chomsky to get a excellent, not so biased view of the going-ons ...

For some wierd reason, i feel a bit for Saddam, he has been the puppet for US administrations for many, many years - and now he'll get tried for it... meh just another smear on US administrations, and they wonder why the rest of the world don't like the US ... :o

... and if you really want to go a bit more extreme, read some Michael Moore 😀

Read "The New Rulers Of The World" by John Pilger. That's the shit. His doco had footage of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam after a business meeting. The takeover of Iraq was planned in the late '80s as part of PNAC.

I'm with you Frenzix. Every one now knows that George Bush wasn't elected into his Presidency. He lost the election. He was announced as the leader (before all the votes were counted) by Fox News, the biggest media outlet in the US, which is owned by George W. Bush's brother Jeb Bush. It's blatantly obvious that whatever G.W. Bush wants the public to be told is done by his puppet media. It's no different to Hitler or any other propaganda machine. Make the public fear an enemy , (ANY enemy) by repetition and heresay. Then you can justify any action in the name of defense.

One of John Pilger's arguments is that anyone attacking 3000 American civilians on US soil is terrorism, but America killing conservatively 10,000 civilians in Iraq is Peace keeping.

I could go on, but I won't. Read the rest of the book yourself...

Oh yeah, what Frenzix said about the media is why I haven't read a newspaper or watched television for 18 years. I'll often selectively watch movies but I won't eat dog shit while somebody's telling me it's icecream, if you get my drift.

Thats not him!!! its some homeless person there trying to passoff as sadam!

Besides, i saw both sadam and osama driving taxis in sydney!:sandrine

Who really cares??

A couple of points though.
"they lived like kings while their people starved". A man named Marcos did that too, but the yanks gave him sanctuary.
The difference was an American freindly dictator.

A poorly armed, poorly trained group of peasants threw the yanks out of Vietnam!

According to UN charter, saddam husux has done nothing wrong, it aint illegal to kill your own people. Doesn't matter whether you & I think it's right or wrong that's how it is.
But seeing as how George W has made the UN redundant anyway, we'll see what happens.

I don't see the US jumping into Zimbabwe to overthrow Mugabe.

Squiz.....

sorry about the swearing ppl 🙁

Thanks for the support guys. I have to say that I have a whole new respect(or should I say lack there of) for you Aussies after reading this. Maybe we should just stick to ourselves. Sorry guys. Didnt realize you held us in such HIGH REGARD.

Let me see if I understand you right? You dont think the US should be in Iraq but it would be OK if we were in Zimbabwe to overthrow Mugabe. Well then now I understand. We may overthrow one if we overthrow them all right?? That makes alot of sence. yes, there are lots of countries where oppression is a way of life, and where human rights abuses are a daily occurence. The problem is that even the world's last super power can't handle them all. So, what do you do? you look at taking on the task that gives you the greatest net benefit, that stabilizes not just a country, but a region. Iraq fit the bill. By invading iraq, a dictator was removed from power, a power base established that allows america to lessen it's reliance on the house of saud, a geographic sphere of influence created that will keep syria in check by surrounding it with relatively stable and reasonable governments (iraq, jordan, turkey, and israel), and lessens the pressure on israel, thus allowing america to cut back the amount it invests in israeli aid, while also undercutting a source of funding and support for the PLO, possibly helping to birng them back to the negotiating table. Peripherally it sends a message to iran, north korea and others that the u.s. will do what it says it is going to do.
Why not get more heavily involved in africa? first there is the issue of trying to figure ot who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. with much of the strife being tribal in nature, how do you decide which side to support? Next, you have the question of optics- after decades of de-colonialization, how do you deal withe the issue of re-colonialization? in countries like liberia, congo, and somalia, wiht their almost total absence of government, this would be the effective result. this is why the Un has not taken a more active role. The former african colonies represented there would scream in outrage at the very idea of the white man taking over again, because they feel the natives can't get their act together. Check out robert mugabe's routine at the recent commonwealth meetings.

Trayle sorry to say this bro, He wasnt there! Zimbabwe has been Suspended from the Commonwealth, For now which they have desided to stay out. BUt I Support what the Coilition is doing. I do feel though that alot of it is "getting him back for Daddy" though. When You see pics of 400,000 people worth of mass graves, you really cant expect anyone not to act. I personally think the war has just started, All his supporters will be very pissed about him getting caught, that they will start to lash out. BOttom line isthis problem is a lot bigger than any of us think, and IM glad its someone else making those decisions and not me, cause I couldnt give the order to kill.

Nectar!

QUOTE! How many innocent civilians do you think the US led attack killed? Well some pretty damming statements say near on 10,000. How many people did Mr Hussein kill over his time? Not sure but was probably a smidgen on the Innocent people the U.S directly or indirectly over the last 20-30 years. I seriously am not bias for Saddam. But I am sick of people believing that the yanks would actually do something that is in the best interest of everybody. It's a known fact that the U.S despise the middle east (maybe religion, maybe the fact that if they control the middle east they control the most mineral rich part of the world)..


WTF the saudis are one on the US' biggest allies, And dont forget, that there are quite a few DIFFERENT religions in the middle east, and also dont forget that there is a huge muslim population in the states. Another thing, Seddam slaughtered all his opposition parties way back when, and also in 88 gassed a shiat load of kurds.Stop talking crap...

N!

My prob with the whole situation is that they went storming in without the UN we do all of course know that Saddam is as guilty as hell just like Rodney King was so we have effectivley dragged him out into the street and beat the crap out of him.

It would have been nice to do it right. But of course with no WMDs yet found then maybe thats why they couldn't wait.

How can we respect a country that is holding 2 Aussies without charges or any rights for almost 2 years.
They say they are guilty - but of what ?(No charges) from the media evidence hicks looks like he is but habib looks like he isn't

The US has a history of getting rid of governments it doesn't like (Panama Canal Project to name just one. Pres Truman if I recall).

One thing I do admire though is the way the US expands, ultimately the fall of the Roman Empire and of course Nazi Germany can be traced to spreading yourself too thin - it is a bugger to police those countries you take over, but the US have gone for the Sub-contracting version of world domination - after all if you can elect a pro US government to run a country then there is no reason to have to look after it yourself.

In answer to the question of which tyrant you start with then I thought the answer was obvious - The One with the Oil

Sorry Unity I didnt make myself clear. It was not his antics at the meeting. it was his actions before and aft.

Oops nearly forgot

for the benefit of our American friend

From The Age Newspaper

"Almost half the Australian public, according to the latest ACNielsen AgePoll, believe that Opposition Leader Mark Latham was correct in judging President George W. Bush to be "the most incompetent and dangerous president in living memory". And slightly more than half think that the ALP was right to oppose Australian participation in President Bush's invasion of Iraq. "

Makes me proud to be in Oz

So it is settled then. Australian has spoken through the VW community. The United States is equal to the Nazis'. Thats fine we can live with that. A complete fabrication, but you can have your opinion. At least I know now....

Damn, we as a country forget about the Boat people and everything else our own government does, but we can slam the shiat out of everyone else. Why dont we see the UK getting verbally bashed in this whole saga....

N

Yes Untiy I was thinking the same thing. Only I couldnt find a article about that and didnt want to sound like I was talking about things I had didnt know. I think you summed up my point though.

Funny thing is, IF we were to be in the shiat with indonesia, who would we call....
Not the ghostbusters thats for sure!

N!

again you took the words out of my mouth. Many nations can start an arguement that the US has had some bad history. But in the end there is no country in the world that does and much for needy countries and comes to the aid of its allies as the US does. You can fault GWB all you want be at the very least you have to say that he understands that an isolationist nation is volnerable. Clinton proved that, and before that Japan made that obvious.

Trayle you've certainly taken this very much to heart. We [both Aussies and US] live in a democracy - we also have freedom of speech. Which is the beauty of our countries. Whilst we may share a love of VW's, we may differ in our political opinions and how we feel our countries, and the world should be run. That doesn't mean that I dislike American's, the same way my comments shouldn't make you dislike Aussies.

I don't agree with anything that Bush has done. I don't agree with anything that Howard has done. I am proud to say that. My comment about Zimbabwe was tongue in cheek - to provoke a reaction - and to provide a compare / contrast analysis.

Happy dubbing.

Squiz.....

I'm now convinced, that there are to many people smoking home grown medication. 🙂

And I on the other hand think that Bush has made the world a safer place. And more over let the world and terrorist in particular know that the US is done being stepped on by terrorist and will not just stand by and wait for the innevitable. Only time will tell, but I for one am an optomist. You choose to be the oposite, thats your choice.... So be it.

Ok beofre I start this is Mel Not Graham.....I just couldn't be stuffed re-loggin in....

I am a humanitarian more than anything else....I don't really see flags & emblems.....I see faces of children without parents....I see death & destruction of whole villages/towns/cities....to me it is irellevant who is to blame.....or who stops it or who started it or what excuses they use!

I see that no-one has bought up the circumcision of women in alot of Afircan countries as well as the circumcision of boys/men in our society....No-one has mentioned the oppression of women in most Asian countries or the fact that girl babies are killed rather than be allowed to grow up in China because male children can work harder.......

There are sooo many atrocities that happen all over the world every single day & we as a collective people let it go by because we are more worried about the price of oil/petrol than the amount of lives that have been lost getting it off their shores & onto ours....

I have been known to say that most Americans I have met are arrogant beyond reason but let it be said I know more than a few Asutralians who could easily fit into the same category!

What it boils down to is that everyone in the western world has the entitlement of free speech & free thought......sometimes we actually choose to use it.....sometimes it is heard but unfortunately....politics being as they are...99% of the time our voices fall on deaf ears.

Religion & politics....two topics never discussed at the dinner table....ever wonder why?.....My opinion is that you can never get 2 people who are imformed, educated & care enough to know everything there is to know on either topic....

World leaders do more than sit & talk about interior design......they are running the lives of millions upon millions of folks worldwide...& better them than most of the uneducated & uninformed authors seen on this world wide forum, passing judgment on people they have never met & discussing issues & matters they think they know intimately.

Now don't get me wrong...I will not pass judgment on anybody here...I just think that there are certain opinions here that should have remained less open.

I have my own.....to name a few I think that Hitler was a brilliant man...charismatic beyond belief.....just MAD beyond reason with his own power...if only he used his power for good instead of evil.....
I also think that dropping the Bombs on Japan was one of the worst war crimes ever carried out.....but it did stop the war....

& who the hell invented napahlm (spelling???)......I still for the life of me can't look into the face of that little girl seen running down the street with her skin melting off without feeling a sense of shame at being part of the human race......

But the beauty is there in the shadows waiting to be appreciated....like the hand of a 26 week old featus grabbing the finger of a surgeon saving its life before it has even taken its first breath....(a picture I saw once..) or the smell of rain on a summer day or even hearing your loved ones laugh & seeing them smile.......all good things......

All in all I have said my piece & will give Graham his keyboard back.......

Dr. Louis Fieser, 68, is one of the nation's most distinguished chemists. A professor emeritus at Harvard, he has won a number of national awards for his research into the chemical causes of cancer, and was a member of the U.S. Surgeon General's committee that issued the 1964 report linking cigarette smoke with the disease. Fieser was also a pioneer in developing laboratory production of vitamin K, the body's blood-clotting agent, and antimalarial drugs. Despite these impressive credentials of service to mankind, he has lately received a number of angry letters. Reason: back in 1943, Fieser invented napalm.

The discovery was something of a coup for Fieser. His research team at Harvard beat chemists from Du Pont and Standard Oil in a Government competition to develop napalm. In the course of his research, Fieser found a perfectly good civilian use for the product: it made a fine crab-grass killer, burning away its seeds while leaving good grass roots untouched. During and after World War II, he received several letters of thanks for his invention, which soldiers claimed saved saves thousands of American lives in battle. No one ever complained to him about the use of napalm until Vietnam.

Unlike some of the physicists who helped produce the atomic bomb, Fieser has no moral qualms about his role in producing one of modern warfare's most fearful weapons: "I have no right to judge the morality of napalm just because I invented it." Nor does he blame the Dow Chemical Co. for manufacturing napalm: "If the Government asked them to take a contract, and they're the best ones in a position to do so, then they're obliged to do it."

As a scientist, Fieser refuses to engage in debate on the Vietnam war, on the ground that "I don't know enough about the situation." A researcher, he insists, cannot be responsible for how other people use his inventions. "You don't know what's coming," he says. "I was working on a technical problem that was considered pressing. I'd do it again, if called upon, in defense of the country."

Point taken.......

It is not the inventor of the product.......it is the bastards that use it to destroy that deserve our thoughts.....

Thanks for pointing that out to me Lovie....

Sorry this is Mel.....Graham didn't want my opinions under his name......

Terrorism?

Hiroshima ... 6 August 1945
Japanese offer surrender 8 August 1945

Nagasaki ... 9 August 1945.

Just let me say this is my opinion, but I think we all need to take a look at ourselves when we come out with things like 'Over half Australians think....' or 'All Australians say....'. Thats about as true as me saying I will have my bug on the road by Easter next year. Its only newspaper polls or similar. We all have different opinions and as per that piece of editorial genius (slight sarcasm) we called the wording of for referendum on the republic, its how things are worded that gets you a result.
I daresay I could easily get anyone of you a 100% response that the war was a good thing and that we should go after (insert your favourite country here) next. I just have to word it correctly and got to certain areas to ask people who I think meet certain criteria predetermined before I ask.
Basically, please do not put out words that say on behalf of all Australians unless you have asked them all, or even half of them.
Say it as your opinion, unless you have all the folk covered. Take responsibility, no silent majority, or the popular feeling stuff.
Personally as someone who got to go over to that region earlier this year, has a lot of friends still there, Aust, US and Brit, I think it was correct, maybe nowhere near soon enough, but better to do something than nothing.

Now for our US friends this may be confusing, Howard is our Prime Minister, Latham is the opposition leader. I do not profess my politics, they are all as bad as the others.
You can label Howard whatever you want, but then he never thumped a taxi driver and broke the drivers arm or left his wife. But then Latham never got drunk and manhandled another senator in the senate or introduced a tax that he said he wouldn't.
Basically if you want to change things why don't you get involved. the comment before of 'I don't vote'. Great, shut the **&# up then unless you want to vote, then you can get your say. Just like if you don't pay your money, don't expect me to give you food.

Yes, Oil was involved, but if you honestly think that that was the be all and end all of the whole thing, then you really are smaller in your appreciation of things than I could imagine.
I don't agree with GWB on what he says or how he does things, but as I am an Australian (and very damn proud of it) I feel annoyed when other Australians hang crap on him, the very same way I feel ticked when people of other countries hang on our people.
All this goes to show is that perhaps this is a conversation better suited to long distance, particularly as many respondents seem to be taking this very personally and would most likely spill beer if they were to do this face to face.
Why don't we all just calm down, get a few beers, and think about what to do to our cars next?

Lets see now,
1st Dec Hirohito signs declaration of war against the US
Japanese deliver a two-line note to US Ambassador on afternoon of Dec. 8th, Tokyo Time (late morning, Dec. 7th, T.H.Time.)
However the attack on Pearl Harbour was at Dec 7th 0755hrs...

Now tell me who was faultless? And if its just semantics of delivery of a message, then why is the surrender of Japan listed as August 15th, because thats when it actually was accepted. Think that no terms of surrender were changed in that time? or that no allied troops (or Japanese) were killed in the intervening time? Yes they were, to both.

:beer Bugger all this, its getting too serious, far too serious and too much like work. Off to the bar :beer :beer

"Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen."
--Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless
"Lord, lord, lord. Protect me from the consequences of the above prayer."
--ibid.

Your good bro. I was just searching for that information. Thats right though. The japanese had a track record of deception. In the days leading up to Dec. 7 Japan had also been pushing its position of peace.

Sorry, its just work. I had to read up on it for a few things last promotion course.

I got get out of here and head over to the Mess for a drink............... need beer......

Nah,
think of it downhill on the Hume with a tailwind... no cops.... just you and the road...........
Bugger the light steering in this thing!!

Cheers, going, going, go....

I DO feel sorry for the ppl killed in all of this, what I felt sorry about (re Saddam) was that he was lulled into this by the US administration over many years, then they turn on him. Just seems like another US change of government in a country that can lend itself to being milked for the betterment of the US. Smells like more sh!t to me!!!

Anyway Chomskey is a good read, for a for concise and better balanced view on understanding of the situation in the middle east.

http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/ejournal/chomsky.htm

Oh and it sh!ts me how everyone is terrorists nowdays, got a problem ... blame terrorists, I think they (terrorists) should start up their own company ... "got a problem that needs to blamed on someone else ... da-da-daaa-da (Ghostbuster music here) ... Terr-or-rists ... naaaananaaaaananaaaa (more ghostbuster music) 😀

hey penguin are you ARA or RAAF?

Holy shit! Did they get him alive?! Where?!

RAAFie, with a lot of ARA friends.... scary thought that!! and you?

I am in the Army (parachute rigger).
Use to be posted to 176 AD Sqn up there in Richmond. They now have me in Nowra.