I Saw Something That Made Me Think On The Weekend

Hey guys on the weekend i witnessed a bad accident. This stooge in a 4wd went thru a redlight clipped a magna spun 180c and then his ass hit head on a Holden Astra then spun 180c the other end mid air and landed over a median strip lucky no oncoming cars were going the other way:o. I was standing at a petrol station watching this unfold like a horror movie. For sure i thought someone would have died but ran there to help (was expecting to see carnage for sure)

Thank god everyone in the Astra (family of 5 was ok) 4wd driver and magna drivers were ok too:bounce

But then made me think if i was in Shazza i wonder what would have happened to me? I love my car no matter what and if its my time its my time but im just interested to know:

Whos had accidents in the VW's?

And what happened structurally to the car?

Look at my web site and you'll see the results of a beetle roll-over.

Was also in a slow-speed roll-over in a fast back, at night. One mate in the back pretended he was dead and made us all freak out a bit!
🙁

how did ya rollover take a corner too fast?

its good to see not many people have had prangs in their VW😀

In the early 70s when I was just a pup, a few of us in bugs and vans went bush north of Mount Isa. My mate tore around us on a narrow station road, got sideways on a cattle grid, hit the bearers, then kept just spinning in 360s through the scrub, taking out trees and bushes on the way. I'm amazed it didn't roll, but every panel was damaged and the car was totalled. My mate was OK surprisingly - no seatbelts or anything then, but he drank and cried all night. We went back and pulled out the motor and the plates in the morning and left the poor, battered bug where it was in the bush. Probably still there today. Nowadays I'm the one that cries when I think about it, because I sold him that bug for $115 and it was an early 50s oval with working semaphores. But hey - s**t happens.

cool story man u should go try hunt for it poor little bug 🙂

Costa

The rear left was a bit flat, and a bit of inexperience were contributing factors.

Dad wasn't impressed!

😠

:cry

i like to give Shazza a bit of sideways action but after ur story dont think i will anymore:jesus

I am in denial about front end crashes in any aircooled VW. If I was in a Beetle, KG or T3, it will catch fire on the tank will explode. If in a T2 I would lose my legs. Scary, I don't want to think about it
Raf

shit thats scary stuff is it true but?

NEVER assume you're safe because you have right of way. Always look for other idiots who haven't seen the give way sign, red light etc

was just pondering the same question last night, thinking of the flat nose kombi I have. has anyone been hit in the front in a kombi? what happened?

drive safe:jesus

I saw a Kombi at Valla a few years ago that hit a cow on the highway at Byron.....the front was all smashed in, but inside was still ok......it even had a sticker on the dash...... "Milk, are you getting enough"...hahahha

Ummm, actually in my experience its not true. Surprisingly.

Two examples - one my own experience, and the other a bloke from america.

Mine first - About midnight one november about 5 years ago, after going up to see my then girlfriend (now wife) after she had had some car problems, I was driving back down mounts bay road in perth. Its a dual carriage way, with a 60 limit, lots of curves, and not wonderful lighting. Anyways, I look down to turn the CD up, look up and find that some stupid german woman had run out of fuel in her old 626 Mazda, and just parked in the RIGHT hand lane, and stayed sitting in the car. At any rate, I jump on the skids, lock up the wheels and career straight up the back of her at around about 40 clicks I think (based on the skid marks only being about 10m long). I hit her about 50 / 50 offset. The rear end on the mazda pushed in, the chassis bent in the middle and the car was a total writeoff. Couldnt drive it home. She was ok, just a bruised knee.

My 67 beetle had one front guarg almost torn off, crumpled down on the left front wheel. The bonnet was pushed back about 6 inches, causing the front three quarters to buckle, and making it impossible to open the passenger door. The spare wheel was imprinted into the fuel tank. The fuel tank was basically squashed about 6 inches, the top buckling up and the front becoming flat, with the imprint of a 15" rim in it !!. The tank didnt leak a drop, and we actually used the fuel from that tank to start the new motor when we rebuilt the chassis into a baja. The tank had deformed incredibly - like i said, 6" is a lot, and didnt spill one drop of fuel.

I bent the steering wheel (cheep aftermarket sports one) with my hands, so had sore wrists for a while. The worst that happened to me was whiplash. I had highback seats and lap sash seat belts, but they werent inertia reel belts. My back still has tender spots from time to time, but thats only because I never got around to physio properly.

Oh yeah, and the subwoofer box flew out from behind the back seat and put a big dent in the roof. Just lucky it wasnt my head !!

The other one I am thinking of, you can find on the superbeetles only website, look for plumbugracer's crash. Basically he hit a stationary car on a racetrack (it was in a smoke cloud) in a 72 S bug racer at about 90mph. He suffered a few serious injuries - broken wrists, ribs and facial injuries where his belts stretched and he hit the windscreen - but he is fine now as I understand.

I believe that beetles, safety wise, are actually pretty good when compared to other cars of their vintage.

Kombis I'm not convinced.

thats good to hear u made it out ok.

I was thinking would beetle steering wheels bend in a collision and secondly would the windscreen pop out if ur head hit it as windows in bugs with new rubbers are easy to pop out

Its good to know about these things I also heard kombis are really safe too:bounce

ive often pondered this as im sure we all hav, and im glad u asked the question costa as i was too scared to.
everyone tells me the tank will explode if hit in the front, and its a scary thought...

yea, have same safety cocerns in my bus but have come to terms with it because:-
(comparing to v6 commodore ive driven)
1.i dont drink and drive at all in the kombi because i like to concentrate on the engine sounds,revs and general well being of the car.as opposed to point and shoot style commodore which requires zero concentration.
2.SPEED the kombi does not accelerate fast enough to get into a dodgey situation before you even know it unlike the commodore which is always trying to get away on you.($600 worth of speeding fines/10000K)
3.driving defensively.as some one else said, be aware of everyone else.because the kombi is a bit slow, i try to drive with others in mind,that is letting people in, letting them pass when safe etc.in the commodore its every driver for themselves and look out if youre in my way!!
i reckon these things together make it alot safer for me to drive the kombi anyday!!

i too drive defensively, i try to keep a good distance in dry and wet between me and the vehicle as drums are a little differnt to the discs in the Audi 🙂.

Also fire extinguisher i carry all the time just in case but i think the the fuel tank at the front is safe as its made of thick metal

VW's do NOT catch fire in front end crashes. The spare tire, bulkead and even fuel tank act as accident support. German car companys have been doing crash testing (incl VW) since stepping off the back of WWII. You can even find photos of splits being run down embankments into offset walls and ovals on tracks with rockets strapped to the back.
Why in all of this it took them to '68 to make a collapseable column is beyond me tho :jesus

The only reason why a beetle would catch on fire in a frontal collison. Is if your fuel line is'nt long enough and your accident is severe enough to pop up the tank (which some offset collusions do do, I believe part of the design as well?) But if you have'nt got a collapsable column or highback seats you're considerably cutting down your chances of survival or lack of serious injury anyway.

If you're interested in increasing side on collision resistance. Look at having the base of your A and B pillars strengthened. I've seen a couple of 6V beetles (rust free at that) with the base of the A pillar sheered off after being hit by a large vehicle.

OH! And if you want VW accident testimonals, talk to Richard who owns Herbie about his 100MPH flip at the thunderdome 😀 Go Volksies! Just not swingaxle 🙁 when the springplates bend out under hard cornering it's likely to end in :cry and upside down ones at that.

Ive been hit by a car twice riding my pushbike, last time through the windscreen, was exciting just like the movies. You would think that would put me off.... no way i just love riding my bike.

I also own a motorbike, an apparently lethal Bus and a sensible air bagged commodore.

The moral of the story. Relax enjoy life and watch out for all the other nutters !!!

Cheers

Scoots

scooter wrote:The moral of the story. Relax enjoy life and watch out for all the other nutters !!!

Amen to that, dude :thumb

The sister of a friend of mine spun her super into a telegraph pole at high speed after avoiding a wandering truck.

The pics below tell the story... she got out of the car with only bruising and the shifter in her hand.

Notice the engine which was torn out of the car!

hey guys, this is danielle not ryan.

i dont know if anyone heard about this.
in adelaide a few years ago my highschool principals daughter was involved in a beetle roll over on the beach, was a convertable as well. there were others in the car as well and i dont know how they faired but her daughter died.

from memory i think it was a soft patch in the sand that caused the roll over and i dont think they had there seatbelts on.

so there is a hint or 2 if on the beach take it easy and just wear your seatbelt.

I saw a chop top beetle that ran into the rear of another car, the dash folded down onto the driver and passengers knees.

My wife took a 35km/h rail way crossing at 60 MPH in an old '67 beetle, needless to say it didn't make it around, it swapped ends and hit a solid steel barrier, the drivers seat came out of its runners, (seat belts don't work when the seat is flying around) she ended up in the back seat. The engine and gearbox were pushed 6 inches forward, but she walked away with out a scratch.

And I had roll over in a 1500 Beetle, the worst thing was fighting with all the floor mats, and the dirt that came off the floor, I was left hanging upside down by the seatbelt, of cause I clicked it and hit the roof with my head and cricked my neck. The car was fine, a bit wrinkled, no windows broke, we pushed it back onto its wheels, topped up the engine oil and drove it home.

I was late for work one morning in the rain doing about 80 in a 60 zone and lost it around a bend jumped a rock wall and ended up in a small tree.
it bent the rear axle and pushed in the front guard we put a new axle tube and axle in it and another guarda d she was right again
marcel

Beetle fuel tanks catching fire ..............

The only cars I've seen catch fire after a prang are the ones in the Hollywood movies. With all the MVAs I've been to at work I have yet to see a car catch fire as a result. Fuel cells self-exploding after a prang - it's a fallacy (unless fuel is ignited by an ignition source).

Judging by what Dave says and my own experience (in earlier post) I'm convinced that the VW reputation for catching fire in a prang is undeserved and protection within the cab seems reasonably OK - BUT if you're pushing it (hooning hmmmm?) and the rear end lets go, it really lets go....... :o

Yeah, top chops are bad news unfortunately :cry

There was a late night emergency reality TV show on, based out of an LA hospital. They went live to a freeway on an elevated freeway. A beetles accelerator had jammed open on a bend and jumped a guard rail. The rescue crew were absailed down. It was a '68 1500 and none of the 4 occupents were wearing belts. Stupid US laws 😠 One rear seat passenger died when she came out of the rear side window. But the others were fine, two only needed a short stay in hospital. Unfortunately the emotional damage was far worse 🙁. The rounded structure of the the heater channels, pillars and roof runners make for great strength if things go pear shaped.

The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration safety data provides an interesting insight into swing-axle vs. multi-joint rear ends; the URL is
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/regrev/evaluate/807489.html
and a summary of one of the conclusions is:

Before 1969, the Volkswagen Beetle with the swing axle suspension had an even higher rollover rate than would be expected for a car of its size. Redesign of the suspension and wheels during model years 1967-69 brought the rollover rate down to the expected level, saving 280 lives per year.

Of course, the "280 lives/year" needs to be seen in the light of non-compulsory safety belt usage.

The other interesting observation is the "accelerator had jammed open" quoted by Cam. I'm not sure if it's up-to-date but the minimal CAMS regulations for any sort of semi-serious motor sport such as sprints, club-trials etc. used to include some interesting items [my notes]:
- a blue triangle to mark the battery location [1]
- two independent means of holding the bonnet down [2]
- metal tyre valve caps [3]
- chrome-plated wheels specifically forbidden [4] and
- two independent throttle return spring arrangements [5].
[1] all the better to stop your electric fuel pump
[2] obvious, but who has it on their beetle?
[3] prevents rapid pressure loss from valve failure- plastic caps just blow off
[4] chrome-plating seriously weakens wheels
[5] stuck throttle are common enough for this standing regulation

What's good for club racing is probably also good for street cars; some of this stuff can be done in 5 minutes for 50 cents.


hth

modulus wrote:What's good for club racing is probably also good for street cars; some of this stuff can be done in 5 minutes for 50 cents.

:thumb Absolutely!

I had Head on collision with a Maxi van.
Was 70 Beetle , we had both slowed but not entirely stopped.
The van was towed , the beetle - pulled the guard off the tyre and drove home,
both of us in the VW had whip lash.
The VW was just about written off, but protected occupants fine.

I'm just going to let people know, without a source of ignition, the fuel tank isnt going to blow up.

I had a bad accident, which I recentl had yet another op on, way back in july 2001, not in a beetle, but the car I was in split as fuel line or something, when I hit the power pole, and there are polaroid pics in my hospital files showing the wrecked car, in a pool of fuel, with downed power lines, and that still didnt catch fire.

I dont know if the pic i have is too big to attatch, but it is in the police holding yard, and it is still standing in a pool of fuel.

pic was too big, and I'm gonna have to get danielle her own username here 😉

My wife was teaching my #1 son to drive on a new housing estate in north Qld some years ago. Vehicle of choice was a mint 2L bay bus. Slid on the Gravel (over bitumen) off the road and down a 2 metre bank, corrected the wrong way and rolled thru 360 deg. A farmer raced over while they were shaking and asked if they were all right. My son replied "oh we're fine. Mum's just teaching me to drive" They were more concerned about my reaction re damage to my car. So they drove to the golf club where I was having a little drinkies. I inspected the damage: One side window half popped out. Mirror torn off, sundry scratches to glass, big dent in roof and headling sagging. I later found out to my cost that the engine mounts had broken, displacing engine seal causing the engine to suck hot air off exhaust. stuffed the rings. I pushed glass back in, screwed the mirror back on, pushed dent out (mostly), refixed the headlining, and later fixed the engine. Did another 160000ks and then while I was working got a call from wifey that the bus was totalled. Caught fire in BURNS st toowong, right near the fire station! burnt out. kept re-igniting after 3 extinguishers were emptied into it.....sometimes you just can't win, and sometimes you can! Commiserations to all who have been in accidents and damaged their precious vw's. Remember, when tempted to do something silly in your VW...ACCIDENTS HURT. They hurt you, your car, your wallet and your pride, and if you die, they hurt other people as well... Merry and safe xmas to all
tony g

wacked1 wrote:was just pondering the same question last night, thinking of the flat nose kombi I have. has anyone been hit in the front in a kombi? what happened?

drive safe:jesus

Didn't you see the road safety ads on TV a few years ago?!

The old TAC ad with the kombi used a pre cut one. It was designed to rip off for effect.

The other guys are right, without a sorce of ignition (spark or immense heat) the tank won't go up. So unless... say... you're braking really hard into a turn on a race track, go off, hit an offset concrete pillar and your tank comes out and tears off your 15 y.o dodgy replacement, short fuel line spraying fuel all over your baking hot (4 flying laps down) brakes. Then you should be safe from exploding beetle disorder :thumb

I think the most important thing to remember is. No matter how rare your car is, it can always be replaced, re-shelled, jigged or repaired. The same can't always be said for people. If you're worried about your little kids in the back seat being cleaned up by a speeding trucky at a red light. Then buy a 10 y.o $30,000 Mercedes Benz. Otherwise, be cautious, realise we're not bulletproof and drive defensively.

All you need for a fuel tank fire is to have your headlights on... or have your fuse box pop out of its little socket and ignite fuel that has leaked from a buste line or spilled due to rollover etc.
I have pics here of 50s and 60s Beetles involved in hard hit fronts that are burnt out. More safety features: The seats tear off the rails, the steering wheels and columns don't absorb collision energy, the dash isn't padded and it's mounted very close to the front seat occupants, the doors don't have burstproof locks, the wheels aren't 'safety beaded', single circuit brakes... the setabelts suck - and that's before you consider they're now 25 or more years old... Beetles are deathtraps, really. But I still love mine

I hit a house!😀

silence...

still more silence...

nervous coughing in the background...

a cricket chirps outside...

it wasn't my fault!

The guy who had my baja before me had screwed around with the pedals leaving them with probably only a centimeter in between each pedal. So when I drove up to the house (up at my farm) and went to brake I managed to hit both the brake pedal and the accelerator at the same time, running into one of the steel support stilts the house sits on, at a relatively low speed. The accident itself wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad if the stupid bumper bar the previous owner had built himself (it was a peice of crap, all the joints had gaps in them and everything was out of shape before the prang) decided to rip off the front end, flip up onto the bonnet causing damage to the fiberglass bonnet and nosecone. This was about a day after we had got it and it was a monor accident it was sort of good in a way because then we had to pull everything off and check it all to see how much stuff this guy had screwed up (it was a LOT, I broke down three times in one week, and stuff is still showing up). In the end we had a broken drivers side headlight and fairly screwed front fiberglass guard, cracked and broken bonnet that may be fixable, the discovery of a peice of crap bumper that did more damage than it stopped and a cracked nosecone. The bumper on my baja at the moment must be half decent because the previous owner didn't make it, and the previous owner his a stump on the passenger front with it and it bend a bit and that's all. So we bent it on the other side to make it look normal.

When the TAC ad came out years ago, heaps of people were saying to us. "See Kombi's are deathtraps, see what happens when they hit a truck"
I told them all they were obviously ignorant and it wouldnt matter if you hit in that kind of accident in just about any car you would be f@#*ed.
Imagine a Laser or Hyundai hitting the truck like that! 🙁

Anything hitting a truck like that would just mush. A massive diesel keeps going until you or a piece of civil engineering stops it. A car certainly won't.

Everyone used to say it to me too, Pete. What do they also believe that Arnie is a real cyborg? If they had of just used a normal kombi, it would have spun around an gotten thrown out again. Or simply pushed along. So to make it more dramatic. They got a pre-cut one and set it up to severe. Filming costs too much money and effort. There is no way they'd just catapult a car into a truck with no idea of what the finished article would look like.

Oh yeah and make sure they have dummies flying out like they never had seatbelts on.

More of this education should be at the 'obtaining licence' level.

There is a sad number of people who not only can't change a flat tyre, but do not know where the jack is, let alone a safe place to wait for someone else to come along.

So often people sit in their car with the hazards on - bonnet up helps to indicate car down, but no-one can be bothered with that one these days.

I stop and get out to help push the car and quite often they will say "Oh I was just going to wait here, should I move?"

They really have no concept, and sadly they are the ones who will just sit there blaring their horn when a car is broken down in front of them.

Oh that's right, sit on your horn and they will magically start their car and drive off again.

For the broken down car

- Use your hazard lights
- Put your bonnet or engine lid up
- Keep away from harmful cars zipping by
- Try to move to other side of intersection or side of road.

For the other drivers

- Understanding when another motorist is down
- Look for hazards and bonnet/ engine lid up
- Don't drive too close
- Help move the car. 3 or 4 people make it much easier.

hey Helbus, how do you put your bonnet up if you have a baja?😀

Once Shazza broke down on a really busy roadway which had 3 lanes each way. What do u do if u have no hazzards and its nite? I Popped the hood up left one indicator light flashing and headlights and got out. Wanted to push it out of the way but new i'd get hit by other cars flying. Was waiting for the NRMA while watching cars just miss my car thought Shazza would be a goner that nite, lucky for me this bloke stopped that loved VW's and helped me push her out of the way while he directed traffic - man that was a close one!

Never had an accident in any of my veedubbs but was half listerning to a bloke up the shop the other day and he reckoned his 66 bug left the road and down a cliff in the dandenongs..I wasnt taking much notice of details but he was able to drive it away and i heard him swear they be the toughest cars hes known. Thats all
Ree

Boozer wrote:hey Helbus, how do you put your bonnet up if you have a baja?😀

LOL.

I suppose if you are on the beach or some offroad expedition it wont be too much of a prob. I suppose you could carry a white flag. 😀

XXX-1.8T wrote:lucky for me this bloke stopped that loved VW's and helped me push her out of the way while he directed traffic - man that was a close one!

That is the way it should be. If we all helped each other, there wouldn't be as much agro on the roads. Peace. 😀 :thumb

true that.

...yeah a white flag, the bug surrenders!

I was a silly P plater coming home at about 3am in my 72 Beetle. I took the last right-hand corner into my street in 3rd gear. (I was trying not to grind my syncros by not shifting into 2nd) I wasn't going 'that fast',
the rear came out,
I turned into the slide,
then the rear slide the other way,
I think i kept my foot on the gas instead of the brake,
didn't correct the other way in time and ended up in a Redgum (they are bloody strong!)

The rear end bounced up the kerb as the kenetic energy disapated. I hit on the right hand side between the headlight and the bonnet. I really mad use of the collapsible steering column that night! The right guard was nearly torn off, the front torsion bars bent the chassis, slightly buckled the drivers door too. The spare wheel was burst by the shredded metal and the rim was bent, but no fuel was lost. The battery tore loose from its anchor and disconnected. The generator was forced forward and the cooling fan hit the fan shroud by the force of the impact...

The stock steering wheel was bent by my head (seat belt on) which slip and required 10 stitches (my forehead that is), and had bruising on my chest.... I still walked home clutching the bloodied gash on my forehead....

The redgum's bark was only slightly shaved from the incident.

Any other time I could've (and had) taken that corner sideways without a problem. I attributed the accident to
driver experience (lack of)
driver fatigue
too much speed
crap rear tyres (fronts were XYX's)
trying to save syncros.

Now I drive an oval and have 225's on the back end, so I'm not (as) stoopid anymore.

Helbus wrote:

XXX-1.8T wrote:lucky for me this bloke stopped that loved VW's and helped me push her out of the way while he directed traffic - man that was a close one!

That is the way it should be. If we all helped each other, there wouldn't be as much agro on the roads. Peace. 😀 :thumb

true dat..

I helped an old dude out in a car park to change the tyre on his Peugeot 505, we got talking about cars and he gave me a VW 1200 Beetle manual from the 60's for my trouble! Nice one!:bounce

T-boned by a red light running woman driving a mitsubishi station wagon.
what complicated things was the fact that i was turning across in front of her after her light (thru traffic) had gone red, hence my charge of not making a righthand turn with safety. six years later everything was sorted out and my countersuit (yes, she had the gall to sue me) left me with a bent VW and no outstanding debt. legals paid, no 8000 dollar payment for her car.

what happened to the two cars:
mitsubishi: crumpled into a van shape. from the windscreen forwards there was nothing resembling a bonnet or engine compartment, she ended up doing a 180 degree turn on the spot, and came to rest facing backwards up the highway.
71 Superbug: Passenger side door crumpled and no longer openable, floor pan bent, left front guard sqwished. 90 degree turn left facing down the highway.
VW:1
Mitsubishi: Nil

as far as the looks went, mine was okay looking apart from the fact that the door was now mushing into the seat on the passenger's side, hers looked like it had hit a brick wall at 80 Kph.
I was bounced around inside, but the only injuries I sustained were from the seatbelt (some ugly coloured bruising up my side where it had dug in).

moral of the story: stay the hell away from lawyers. and trust in old steel... VWs may not have impact absorbing crumple zones, but they're bloody tough. I've since replaced it with another of the same year and snotty colour 😀

:vader

My first crash,
What can I say, Im a bit of an animal lover!
I was doing 100kph, swerved to miss a rabbit and went head first into a 4ft deep concrete table drain!!
I dont know how many times I rolled it, all know is I dont want to do it ever again.

When the car came to rest (lying on its side, facing back the way I had just come)I immediatly turned off the ignition, I dont remember smelling any fuel at all!
Couldn't open the passenger door, the reason becoming obvious later. So I punched out the windscreen and climbed out that way.

I was the only person in the car, and I got out of it pretty good, only had a sore right leg for about a week.

that's your baja?! I've been wondering who's that was for a long time. It looks like it was a pretty good looking one what was in it?