Respray of Beetle - Questions here.

Respray of Beetle - Questions here.

I know lot's of people will be asking questions, so fire away.

MY question got inbetween you photos, I thought you had finished posting them.
Please check out page 2 of your pics.
Dave:jesus

Originally posted by 57Kombi.

Sorry mate I moved it here. (Peter)

This is great.
As you know I am in the middle of doing my splitty, You just dont realise how big they are until you start sanding one down.
I have been using an epoxy 2 pac filler type primer, it is high build.
I am rubbing it down with an orbital with 320 and it is getting very smooth.
The question is< where I have found some lows and have skimmed with a bit of filler(only about 1mm) do I have to spray over with primer again or can I just smooth it and then spray my top coat, this will be a solid 2 pac.
Cheers
Dave

If you have used any fine filler even if it is only 1mm thick, you will have to prime over it.

All fillers are porous and the topcoat will show this, unless it is primed and sealed and rubbed.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Will be going over with primer anyway, I was told that epoxy primer wasnt porous.
???
It gets very smooth with the 320 on the orbital, will be going over it after with 600 by hand, how low a paper do you have to go before it is smooth enough for 2 pac.
Cheers
Dave

The primer-filler is not porous, but not a very good topcoat. It is not UV stable and would break down with time. This is another reason why people say not to drive your car around in 'Australian racing grey' for 12 months or so.

The body filler is porous and must be primed.

600 grit is ok for solid colours and 800 is preferrable for metallic's.
If you are painting in acrylic laquer 600 is ok for either.

No questions for the moment but thanks for the clarity of the process description.

This surely deserves to be part of the FAQs.

my paint job on the kombi is worse im doing a panelvan!!!
ur spot on they are bloody big things!!!
what filler do u reccomend i prefer something that doesnt have to go onto bare metal just ontop of the primer.
cheers
rhys

Out of interest what would this cost a punter who gave you the car to do?

kombi_kid wrote:what filler do u reccomend i prefer something that doesnt have to go onto bare metal just ontop of the primer.
cheers
rhys

The brand I use is Cams fine filler. It comes in a 1.5kg tub, possibly smaller also.
Any reputable brand of fine filler or two part putty filler as it is also called will be ok.

Septone, K&H are good brands also. You paint supplier should be able to steer you in the right direction.

Fine filler is not designed for large repairs as it is hard to rub. It is for small dents, pin holes in large filler repairs and stone chips.

koolkarmakombi wrote:Out of interest what would this cost a punter who gave you the car to do?

It would be about $3000- $3500 going by the number of hours it is taking.

The colour is still a secret, and it will look pretty good. I suppose it will depend on personal taste. There will be no graphics or flames though. Sorry guys. 😀

go the flames

hey
yer thought cams was the way to go!!!
cheers
rhys

4 questions, i hope that is allowed.

what sort of roller do you use to apply the the primer?

do you spray the primer on larger panels?


I am doing mine at home and using acrylic how do i get a great finish and keep it looking good.

How much primer, acrylic paint and thinner do i nned to buy for my 73 bus and how many coats of each?

thanks, John.

what sort of roller do you use to apply the the primer?

- The roller is sold by our paint supplier and the actual sponge bit is replaceable each time you use it, so you don't have to clean up. Not suitable for acrylic putty

do you spray the primer on larger panels?

- It is preferable to spray putty larger panels, but something like a beetle guard which is very round, is ok. On very flat surfaces, you can get lines when doing a large area. They will then be able to be seen on dark colours if you look hard enough.

I am doing mine at home and using acrylic how do i get a great finish and keep it looking good.

- I would recommend spray puttying the repairs on a Kombi and spray prime the whole vehicle. Finish rubbing with 600 grit. To make life easier paint the roof separate from the rest of the vehicle, even if it is the same colour.

- If you have not painted before practice a few times on an old panel. Even if it is a rusty beetle door it will give you an idea of what actions in your prep work will give what results. Even if you paint the same panel 10 times. Better than painting a whole bus 10 times.

How much primer, acrylic paint and thinner do i nned to buy for my 73 bus and how many coats of each?

- Depending on how many repairs are done on the bus. 1 litre of putty for each three panels worth of repair should be enough.

-2 x 4 litre tins of primer will be more than enough, and extra for small future jobs or touchups.

-Get a 20 litre drum of 'A' quality thinners

-Get just a 4 litre of gunwash for clean up. If you run out of gunwash, most paint shops will refill your tin, and you will only have to pay for the gunwash then.

-Get 2 X 4 litres of paint. You will need an extra 4 litre new tin for two reasons.
first of all you will need to blend the 2 x 4 tins of colour. Put half from each into the new tin and stir. Then put it back into the original two. Do this over about 10 times and any very slight difference between the two made up tins will be eliminated.

-You can also then use the empty tin afterwards to mix your colour in with thinners ready to spray and leave the original colour un-thinned.

good reading, thanks for the use of your brain Helbus :thumb

Its good to have some paint/body people around !

Great idea about the extra paint can, cheers

I have used 4 litres of primer on my splitty and still have one side and two front doors to do so you are right when you say 2 x 4 liter tins.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers
Dave

thanks hellbus. wow that is a lot of paint. do i need to inform the RTA that my vehicle has put on 30Kg over the summer.🙂

thanks "helbus"this is great.:thumb I've learnt by trial and error...but it has cost me time and money.though at the end of the day I know I did it.
so I'm picking up some good tips here,THANKS:thumb

Astro Boy wrote:thanks hellbus. wow that is a lot of paint. do i need to inform the RTA that my vehicle has put on 30Kg over the summer.🙂

I think it is courtesy to let them know the colour has changed though.

😀

hey
good info helbus im painting my bus at the moment and was told by a few people just to give the real big panels a shim of bog just the eliminate them little high and lows?!
im also painting in a sort of darkish/lightish grey so any tricks to painting these sorts of colours?
cheers
rhys

You will find that due to the way a kombi is constructed with braces directly spot welded to the outer panels, that you will never get it perfectly straight.

If you put a skim of filler over the whole of the panels, you would end up using a hell of a lot, and still have slightly wavy panels.

It's up to you, but I personally think it is a lot more work for a small result.

There are no tricks to painting, only skill. You will have to learn these skills with your own hands. This is why you should spray a couple of small panels first and see what different pressures and techniques do. 😀

I have been skimming the lows on my long side with filler, it is only about 1-2 mm thick, I have been leaving it for a week to make sure it has gone off properly.before I snad it back

Will this stop shrink back or am I just wasting my time and should work on it after an hour or so.

Cheers
Dave

You are better off using a skim of filler rather than too many layers of putty.

Quality filler mixed correctly wont shrink back, and is lighter and cheaper than putty.

Finish it off with 180 grit paper and you will be able to feel how straight is is properly without having the roughness distort your perception.

Also at 180 grit you will not get shrinkback in the putty like when it is finished off with 80 or heaven forbid 40 grit.

Filler only gets it's bad name from large number of people that use it badly. :thumb

Well, If Im too keep Grimace, I would want the doors fixed, meaning welding, Im a poor student so It will be on the cheap, Thinking of having a go myself.

Can you give me your advice on these helbus.

$395 Cougar Air Compressor, Direct drive two cylinder, 3hp with 50L tank 14CFM

$59 High Pressure Spray Gun, 1Ltr Pot
The gun says S770 on it.

Would a budget of $700 be reasonable?

They should be ok for you.

The S770 is an easy gun to use.

Like a Beetle, the basic design hasn't changed for a very long time. :thumb

hey
yer peter im doing all the primers and buildcoats but have a mate who works for a 1st class spray shop do the top coat!!
use say use are all using heaps light grit sandpaper im using 80 grit all the way down to baremetal on the orbital and its going fine not gettin many lines through it or nutin!!!
whats good grit paper to be using for buildcoats??
cheers
rhys

I finish my filler with 180.

Then finish putty with 240 or 320

Then rub primer with 800 grit for metallic paintjobs.

600 grit for solid two pack or acrylic paintjobs.

koolio!!!
whats this putty and bog whats the difference?
sorry for all the silly Q's but ya a wealth of info and its helpin me heaps!!
cheers
rhys

Body filler is a pasty substance used to make panels straight. When mixed with a hardener which looks like red toothpaste, it will set hard.

Putty is sprayed on and also called hi-fill. You would be wise to use a gravity fed spray gun to apply it. It is used to make panels smooth after you have made them straight with the filler.

Have a look at this website. They dont have the application guide yet, but there is a product list.

http://www.khsurfacetech.aust.com/index_autoretail.html

This site is the same, no application guide, but the products are listed. I recommend the 2Ktech Septone body filler

http://www.septone.com.au/HTML/Product%20Catalogue/automo1.htm#

Now check this site out, they have heaps of info about small body work and rust repairs and spray painting etc.

http://www.ridgeap.com/tips/diytips.htm

Hope this helps

😀

thanks pete!!!
so basically u get it all straight then spray it over with putty then give a light sand whip it back then another buildcoat the a rub back then top coat?
cheers
rhys

if you have a lot of swells to fill,you can get a spray bog,but do recommend you use a speed file or make a large file to suit the side of the kombie.you can make it worse if you are not carefull.but you do get a more even fill with it,not like mixing plastic filler or 2k filler,which can be applied over paint for small dents etc,i use a brand called impa..most plastic filler the repair should be bare metal....
cheers,,,

dont worry hellbus im keeping it the same colour.
Do i need to get it back to bare metal? i am doing it on the cheap and there is very minimal rust.
after filler & primer how many coats of the paint do i use and do i put a clear coat on?(acrylic being used)

Have a look at the pics I have been doing for the beetle. I did not go back to bare metal where the paint that was on the vehicle was stable.

I am not doing a restoration, only a repaint. It still looks very nice, but if you want 100% confidence it is done properly going back to metal is the proper way.

It will take a lot longer and cost more in primer and abrasives.

You will need about 6 good coats of colour in acrylic, so you have enough to rub back and polish. 8 if you want to really rub it back and make it like glass.

This is a bit relative though, some painters may thin paint down more than others and some might put on the coats a lot wetter.

It is a matter of preference, technique and experience. Unfortunaltley I cannot help you with those.

I suggest you try painting an old panel first and buff that up.

You do not need to put clear on solid colours. especially acrylic.

Some two pack solids are made up as clear over base though.

Hi again hellbus


Just wondering how much supplies I would need to respray grimace. litres of paint.

I recently painted a yellow bug with cans, I used the tecnique of, primer, sanded cleaned, 6 coats of paint.

This was after I stripped paint to bare metal.

You would need half of what you would need to paint a kombi.

Unfortunatley it is not an exact science. It depends also on your use of the gun, mistakes made, pressure, wastage, coverage of actual colour.

The respray I just did on our Beetle used $400 in paint alone, and that was trade price.

I used 2.5 litres of colour and 2 litres of clear. As it is two pak it is not getting rubbed or buffed. Well it doesn't need it anyway cause I got only about 5 specks of dust on the whole car, and there is no peel.

If you are painting yourself in acrylic you will need more paint as you will be rubbing it back and buffing it.

Like I say, there is no exact science, but 4 litres of colour, 4 litres of clear if it is a metallic, and 20 litres of A grade thinner will keep you on track for a Beetle or type 3.

ahh ok, so I would lightly sand the car at the end and buff?

thanks so much hellbus. i dont know where you find the time to work, continue working on the beetle and answer all our num-nut questions. it is muchly appreciated. :thumb

Helbus,

I know of a Paint Operator who sells cheap cheap paint, Its Unicolour by concept paints, ever used this paint before?

the price is $75 for 4Ltr of Colour, $50 for 20L thinners and 4Ltr of primer for $30.

I have not used Unicolour paint and cannot comment on it.

I have used only two pack in recent years being Spies Hecker, Dulux and PPG.

In acrylic laquer I have used Dulux (now PPG) , Berger (Spies Hecker) and Spartan (Wattyl) in the past.

In my experience from what I have used and what I have seen done, I would have to say that you get what you pay for. If you plan on a paintjob staying on a car for more than 5 years you will need to get quality products. 😀

concept paints are cheap put is a good finish,i use it on all my acylic paint jobs,,i think if its a daily drive,no good paying top $$$$ for paint...is only as good as the painter,the mix is very important,you can have it to wet,or to dry...

i have read a few comments here,sounds like a lot of one timers,trying to do there cars which is great to see,,,but dont try go over the top with your first respray,
i am a spray painter 15 years,if you want a good job,think about the prep work,if not done right,you mays well use a paint roller,,,,the top coat is only as good as the prep work,with acylic the paint gets cut with 1200/1500 wet so you can have a few mistakes and will be cut away if your lucky....i dont know about hell bus but i like to let acylic sit for 1 to 2 weeks b4 i cut it,let it sink back then cut /buff,you buff to soon after the paint sinks and you lose the high shine,,,

cheers...
hell bus love the kombi cool ride dude..
....

Yes Wrecker67,

I agree totally, prep is very important.

I also used let my acrylic jobs sit for a week or two as well. Paint one weekend and cut the next or one after that.

It is good to have more than one opinion here, and find they are similar.

I like to be flexible in my thoughts on how to go about a job, as there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak. If anyone is spraying their own car, I hope this is helping, because I learnt the hard way. - On my own.

Just remember it wont happen overnight, but it will happen. 😀

Just uploading part II and final finish now.

:bounce

the colour will b metallic, why do you ask? well i can assume this by the fact u rubbed with 800grit, when u simply say 600for solid twopac, 800 for acrylic and metallics, and your using 2pac........

What you have done is fantastic both in paint and the step by step details.

One question, How do you prep and get paint into the vent under the back window. I've seen this done with various degrees of success.

Thanks again.

The paint in under the vent was original and there was no dirt in there, so I made sure I put as much primer in as possible when I primed it, and when it was painted, a fair degree of attention was paid to getting colour in there.

The clear could not be squirted in there though, as it would have created runs on the outside.

It is not 100% covered in there, but it looks ok.

I did not see you mention anything about rubbing the final paint. Did you get so little orange peel that you did not need to do any final rubbing?

That is correct. There was almost no peel. This is achieved through years of experience. Being two pack it has a direct gloss which eliminates the need for cut & polishing. :thumb

I have a bloke at work who painted his chevy with 2pak and spent an eternity rubbing it back. He says he used 2000 wet paper, folowed by a cut with 2000 milk/paste and them 3000!!! final cut.
If 2pak has a "direct gloss", does this mean he stuffed something or is he going overboard. When he showed me the photos it looked better than a mirror finish.
Bastard wont paint my car for me!!!
Says it has to many curves.
Mind blowing topic. Looks a million bucks.

thanx Todd :jesus

Direst Gloss just means that you do not 'have to' polish the paintwork. If you need to rub runs, dirt or peel out, you can.

You won't stuff it by rubbing it back & polishing it.

If you want ultimate showclass look you will do whatever it takes. My paintjob took a total of 8 hours to paint two colours including masking, painting, baking and unmasking. It is now finished.

I will not be spending any more time on the finish as it is complete. This is one of biggest advantages of two pack. It is quick on big jobs.

That is why OEM paintjobs are all two pack.

Whoo hoo.

Got a call from the trimmer today and the carpet and bit of headlining lower is done.

Will be able to put the rear windows in now and Beetle will be ready for Hanging rock. 😀

just wondering where in melbourne you did the work and had the use of the spraybooth/equipment etc?

I did the work at the smash repair shop I manage. We only do accident repairs.

Resto and respray not what the shop is set up for.

I had to do this over a few days at Christmas time in my own time with my own materials. 😀

Hey Peter, thanks for all the info it is much appreciated.

Can you give me any tips for spraying metallic colours to avoid getting stripes in the colour (base coat clear coat 2 pack system)? I have done some painting before but not professional by the furthest stretch of the imagination!!

I have a 15cfm compressor with dual filters to help get some of the moisture out, regulator of course, and a fairly low-mid range gravity feed gun. The stripes don't happen all the time, I thought I may have had the spray fan to small?

Any help is appreciated. I seem to get a few darker stripes through the basecoat every now and again.

Cheers
Alan

That is a tricky one.

There are a lot of reasons

- spray fan is too narrow. should be nice and wide

- Paint is too thick - should be a fair bit thinner than straight paint

- paint is too thin. should be a fair bit thicker than water

- nozzle is blocked. Spray close to a piece of cardboard and see if an even spray patch appears, not a figure 8 pattern.

- painting too close. At least 20 cm away.

- painting in hot weather. Acrylic doesnt like hot, especially over 35C using light coloured metallics.

- Moving too fast or too far each line!

Thanks for that, I'll keep an eye on those things (I'm using 2K base coat clear coat by the way).

I think I may have been a combo of too close and spray was too narrow. Mixed paint before so know roughly how it should flow off the mixing stick (had a spray painter friend give me some pointers once).

Cheers again
Alan

Spray painting is a bit like Tai Chi.

You have to have stamina, but be gentle at the same time. Strong but smooth.

It comes with experience. 😀

Hey Hellbus I gotta say thanks... I didnt take too much info from your step by step but you helped me with the one big thing that we punters need to do our own paint, you gave me the confidence to do it...
This thanks is well overdue as I'm just bolting Vernon back together now I'll post pics when its done.

a wise guy once said... "it took thousands of experts to build the Titannic, and a lone amature built the Ark"

Thanks again.

That's great. There is definitley a feeling of satisfaction when you paint a car yourself. I remember when I did my first respray, my confidence grew a lot from that.

how much are artistic jobs like flames?

If i wanted to put some bright orange flames on the front fenders (coming out of the headpights) of a purle pearl 73 what are you looking at?

say if they came halfway down the fenders

A custom panel shop may charge between $800 and $1200

If you wanted to mask it yourself and use a spray can of orange it would cost about $30

There is no special trick to doing it other than experience, atristic flair and a steady hand!

hey helbus! welcome back!

how was your trip?

i read your articles way back when i first joined AVD.. and have since started an apprenticeship in spray painting!!!

im working in a GREAT shop in nunawading doing prestiege cars (working for a contractor) so i also get to work in another prestiege panel shop in west melbourne.. and have done a bit of "time" at Graeme Cuthberts in Box hill!

Might see you around in my "travels" 'eh?

You may not see me around in the panel game as I quit it. I was managing a panel shop and just got jack of the constant friction between owners of cars and insurance companies, with us in the middle.

I am now working in a specialty tool place that supplies abrasive products and rotary tools. I can now enjoy cars rather than just "putting up with them" day to day.

I suppose once you get up higher in the political scheme of anything you either go with it or if you disagree with it and you have a concience, you get out.

Hey Helbus, here's a question. How do you touch up 2 pack paint? I know absolutely nothing about it, but I do have a fantastic paint job on my car with a few bits of rust poking through, so I wanted to fix the rust and touch up the paint. Thanks in advance... Bill

There is no real "touch up" that I can explain here.

Your best bet is to spend the money getting the rusted sections of metal cut out and new bits welded in. A fair bit of the car usually has to be dismantled to do this, so the welding does not damage any other parts. A few rust spots can cost well over $1000 to get done.

You will have to get a panel shop to look at it and assess how much will have to be welded. They will also be able to tell based on the type of paint and the finish on your car as to whether they will be able to blend the paint or whole panels will have to be done.

I really cannot tell without seeing a car what can be done to it.

Thanks. I'll attempt to put some photos here.

Phot's won't give any indication, as it really takes someone with a good eye and a bit of rust experience to tell exactly what it will need done.