POBJOY STEROIDS= 120+hp@the wheels

Here we go again.........😀😀😉😉

off the shelf for how much complete and running

alot!

That's double what my car puts out! Crikey.

great now everyone's gonna want one 😠:P

What ^ said :thumb

hmm, maybe if I sold my whole car I could afford a 120+HP vw motor (not pobjoy specific, any big vw shop).

Then I'd have to save up to buy a car to put it in...

And I'd love to go back to carbies, a lack of heating, a lack of low end smoothness, occasional difficult starting, regular maintenance, a low amp alternator...

hmm, on second thought's I think I will keep my V6 Baja. 😀

Seriously though, 120HP out of a VW motor is great.

how did i know that one was coming?😀😀😀:P

wouldn't you get more than $7000 for tour car Wes?????:jesus

yeah, but youd still need significantly more than $7k for a pobjoy steroids.

Wonderful motors for the rich and famous amongst us.

Baja Wes wrote:hmm, maybe if I sold my whole car I could afford a 120+HP vw motor (not pobjoy specific, any big vw shop).

Then I'd have to save up to buy a car to put it in...

And I'd love to go back to carbies, a lack of heating, a lack of low end smoothness, occasional difficult starting, regular maintenance, a low amp alternator...

hmm, on second thought's I think I will keep my V6 Baja. 😀

booooooooooooooooring :P

Fair dinkum -some of you blokes would whinge if you won the lottery...
This is close to the ultimate road-going VW that is capable of taking on and winning in weekend club comp. If you want to go fast without spending too much money, buy a 10-year-old fast Jap bike. If, however, you want to have serious fun in a fast Beetle, set aside about 10K for one of these steroids engines. That will get you
Magnum heads
94 P&Cs
Alloy big block case
CW Pobjoy stock stroke reinforced crank
Suitable cam and lifters
44IDF webers
reco rods
balanced
All machining
Assembly by arguably the best VW builder in the world
warranty

You need to supply late sbeetle engine for exchange rods, crank etc and accessories such as alterantor/generator, stand etc

If you don't want one, don't buy one and don't whinge about one. And I'll see you on the streets...:P

Doug Sweetman wrote:yeah, but youd still need significantly more than $7k for a pobjoy steroids.

Wonderful motors for the rich and famous amongst us.

Crap....you don't know what you're talking about obviously😀....I've got a steroids that I paid less than $7000 for and a "standard" Pobjoy that cost less than $6200 complete with carbs etc(full turnkey) Why spend the $$$ on carbs when you can have fuel injection as described in other posts on the forum??? Whats stopping you getting a longblock minus tinware/carbs??Do you really need the alloy case?? It will always come down to $$ and how much you want to spend regardless of who builds it. The final cost is up to the purchaser:bounce

Craig Torrens wrote:You can now safely say a Pobjoy Steroids 1916cc is capable of 120+hp.

Thanks to CBB (Mike) for doing some tuning and Dyno runs on a Pobjoy spec 1916cc, they managed to tune it to 120+hp. This is the "off the shelf" new steroids motor, running a street legal muffler as well as the standard pulley !!! So fit a power pulley and a race muffler and expect even more. S0 how does that compare to the strokers ??????

Amazing what you can do when you Dyno tune !


Sounds like I have to book into CBB for a play :thumb

Woo Hoo!!! Good info Craig. Just wondering what changes did they make?

gee craig, anyone would think that you are hoping for a discount on your next motor.... 😀
they may seem like a lot of money but after riding in a car fitted with one and feeling the back end squirming under acceleration... on race slicks (with the motor only getting 2/3's throttle due to the acc cable adjustment) it all seems worth it.
after that run i want one... so far i have been slowly collecting the bits for a few years and am still a few years off, but i'm willing to wait as i only want to spend the cash once.

Craig Is that carbies or EFI.??

Great HP if its carbies... can believe it more than the yanks HP output readings.

that was with carbies. 44IDFs

Is that your motor Cool ??

Thats great

That's amazing power out of an engine still using some standard parts (rockers etc).....must be more than happy with that!!!. What type of CB 044's ? are they CNC wedge,round etc.What compression? tell more....tell more.....

may i please see the dino sheet soo i can see wheather you have your hand on the scales...?????

Well Alexandra,

The Dyno tuning was done at CBB by Mike on a Dynamic Dyno using Shootout Mode.

I'm sure he will confirm for you.

Yes there is a printout, the owner has it.

And yes the Dyno run had several witnesses including Dave Stoker.

Just except that when it comes to engine building "Stan's the Man". And for tuning Mikes the man
😀

man I think I am in the twilight zone, everyone is behaving so well 😀

keep it up guys :thumb

1303 wrote:That's amazing power out of an engine still using some standard parts (rockers etc).....must be more than happy with that!!!. What type of CB 044's ? are they CNC wedge,round etc.What compression? tell more....tell more.....

also uses vw conrods, and a counterweighted vw crank........... the specs are posted on the forum, just not too sure where !!!!

If you want to know more, maybe phone Stan Pobjoy 0266509616

Ben Durie wrote:Troy should be happy with that number,
great result.

but what was the torque ?

what gear did he use ?
what final drive ratio ?
Ben.

Yes Troy is happy.

Probably best to speak with Mike for all the FIgures etc regarding the Dyno run, as I was not there:thumb

I think 700ftlb ????? up from 550ftlb, does that sound right :jesus

4th gear with a 3.88 diff and standard fourth gear ratio. Troy has 7x15'' rims with 205 65series (I think)

As I said best to ring Mike, he apparently has Flywheel horsepower,torque figures etc etc🙂

Craig Torrens wrote:I think 700ftlb ????? up from 550ftlb, does that sound right

hhmmmm...... unlikely:o

kai

Jetting !

Ben Durie wrote:700ft lbs nah,

30 hp in the tune up , what did he do ?

Ben

turned the motor on??.........................but seriously, this whole 1916 thing is just like the Governments new fair trade agreement, we're all told how good it is but no one really knows whats inside it......

"blah blah blah blah I'm this & I'm that blah blah blah, I should have a big capital "I" in the middle of my name cause "I'M" so great.................wank wank wank wank........... "
wtf?:jesus wacky sig line..
that'd make you "jaIk" 😀

if you don't know what's inside it, you haven't been reading this forum...
let the flaming begin... wes spoke too soon 😉

PeIter

like I said before.....here we go again. Can't people just move on?? The motor made excellent horsepower. Good. We have been informed about it. Great. Why start a slinging match???:jesus🙁

Craig Torrens wrote:I think 700ftlb ????? up from 550ftlb, does that sound right

Dyno's measure force at the wheels. So if anything it was 700 lbf. Then multiply it by the wheel radius and you get about 750ft.lbs of torque at the wheels, but that has been multiplied up by the gear ratios, so it depends what gear it was in. Third gear is normal.

Retro, I know Wes is capable of doing this himself, but I also know that he won't, purely because he is a nice bloke, so I will.

As a moderator, I am asking you to keep your narrow minded and judgmental views to yourself, and I will only ask once. This forum is open to anybody who has an interest in VW's, regardless of what they drive, and will remain so.

Whilst you have the right to say "I do not like VW's with non-VW engines", you do not have the right to suggest that Wes is not allowed to post here just because you don't like his choice of engine. In case I'm not being 100% clear on this: Shut up.

retro ur comments are out of place. U have every right not like non-vw powered vw's, but u do not have the right to personally attack someone because of this.

Keep personal comments to ur self and just talk about the vw's.

If this was in person, i wouldn't have problem letting wes nail u for that one, i would probably hold u down!

lets play clean!!!

Dude are all the parts in a pobjoy (or any other guys motors for that matter!) made by VW, Or any of the OEM companies? No they are made by other companies nowadays, so really, althought its works the same way a VW motor does, its not a "vw" motor! Only a pure stock motor, is truly a VW motor. And I couldnt care less if someone drives past me in a vw powered by any make of motor, cause IM not into that sort of thing. I like my cars low, and accesorized!

N!

Keep it civil, or the thread is sinbinned.

Andrew

Changing the subject, at what revs did HP peak and where was peak torque made ?


Andrew Grace

BiX wrote:retro ur comments are out of place. U have every right not like non-vw powered vw's, but u do not have the right to personally attack someone because of this.

Keep personal comments to ur self and just talk about the vw's.

If this was in person, i wouldn't have problem letting wes nail u for that one, i would probably hold u down!

lets play clean!!!

I have nothing against non vw powered cars but please stop comparing the to vw powered cars IT IS NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!:o

vanderaj wrote:Keep it civil, or the thread is sinbinned.

Andrew

Yes.... what he said...


:thumb

Tazz

Baja Wes wrote:man I think I am in the twilight zone, everyone is behaving so well 😀

keep it up guys :thumb

Looks like it turned to crap due to some very narrow minded people.What a shame. Looks like you spoke to soon Wes.

Man my english must be shit as I am still trying to find anywhere that someone has bagged Stan for the building of his Vw motors. Hang on I will just read all the post again:jesus:jesus

Precisely. Everyone heres knows that stan is the man for vw engines in Oz.

Not everyone know how much they cost, but thats just a matter of education.

Me ? - I'm just jealous that I cant afford to have stan build me the big block type 4 2600 with injection that I would so dearly love 🙂

Why cant we all just be friends ? 😀

Way cool, 120hp that is awesome .... almost 3 times what I am getting from my stroker engine:o

well I seemed to have missed all the action.

So lets see whats left. Someone implied I bagged pobjoy motors. When did I do that?

All I said was

hmm, maybe if I sold my whole car I could afford a 120+HP vw motor (not pobjoy specific, any big vw shop).

Now I knew there are people on this forum that like to go nuts for no reason, and it is why I said not pobjoy specific. I have nothing against pobjoy or his engines. I think his engines are great and he's doing an awesome job to get 120HP.

I was simply having a go at Craig and stirring him a bit (people that know each other do this in a friendly manner for a bit of fun you know), and saying that I wouldn't personally ever spend that much money on a VW motor no matter who built it. I am allowed to say that you know.

The reason why I am on these forums is because I like to help people and give them advice when I can do so, and I like to think I have helped a few people out there with my replies. I can't say that your providing the same service to the forum.

hey brad you do know the accelerator is the one on the right😀😀

Wes can't build a VW engine :o:o

At least not with the power of my beast.....:P:P:P

Andy42 wrote:hey brad you do know the accelerator is the one on the right😀😀

So let me get this straight ... you don't dyno your car at idle in neutral ??? but if I put it in gear won't it run into the wall ???🙁🙁

Buggy Brad wrote:Wes can't build a VW engine :o:o

At least not with the power of my beast.....:P:P:P

Well unfortunately I never dynoed any of my motors, but I'm sure they would beat your pretend HP figure, but not your real one. 😀

Gracey wrote:Changing the subject, at what revs did HP peak and where was peak torque made ?


Andrew Grace

Rear wheels =121.5hp at 6000rpm
At the Flywheel= 147.8hp at 6000rpm
Torque = 700 ft lb at 4500rpm

All figures have been provided by CBB, using a Dyno Dynamic Dynometer using SHOOTOUT mode.

This represents a 29.7hp increase on Troy's "Dyno Day Result"
Results then were:
Rear wheels= 91.8 at 5800rpm
Torque= 550 Ft lb at 4400rpm

Why such a big jump ???

Mike was very concerned on the Dyno day that Troy's car was running extremely lean, so much so that he stopped the Dyno run as not to do any damage. So Mike has corrected this problem and the true potential of the motor has been shown. Excellent engine Combo and Excellent tuning has given this result.

This HP increase has then been confirmed by Troy's big smile after taking the car for a drive :thumb

Nothin better than THE BIG SMILE :P

Thanks Craig, I thought my post got lost in those other posts.
This shows just how important correct jetting for a given combination is.

PS, I'd love to see the dyno chart.


Andrew Grace

Craig Torrens wrote:Torque = 700 ft lb at 4500rpm


Torque= 550 Ft lb at 4400rpm

umm.....there's still a definate problem with this ^ :o

the bhp figures do sound good though, and i can fully beleive that by fitting the correct jets and setting it up great will give such a power increase.......

kai

I've asked for a Dyno sheet to be Emailed to me
I will "post " when I have it Andrew.:thumb

Gotta love that torque!! :thumb

i know stan and like him alot, but craig are you telling me that stan sold an engine that ran dangerously lean and at only 4/5 ths of it’s potential ?

I hope you tell him. And everyone else that has a steroid.

The torque quoted is torque at the wheel or rollers. It is completely different to the torque at the engine, as torque is multiplied up by the gear and diff ratios, and reduced by the gearbox efficiency.

HP is not effected by the gear ratios, only the gearbox efficiency.

Basically those torque figures mean nothing and are only comparitive to each other, as long as they were both achieved in the same gear.

if my wasser project is only going to produce power in order of 100kW at the flywheel I'm going to spit the dummy at all these people telling me how good VW motors can go. 😠 then I'm going to sell it and fit a 1600cc corolla motor that does 100kW STOCK. :P

Craig Torrens wrote:I've asked for a Dyno sheet to be Emailed to me
I will "post " when I have it Andrew.:thumb

Thanks Craig.

bug eyed wrote:i know stan and like him alot, but craig are you telling me that stan sold an engine that ran dangerously lean and at only 4/5 ths of it’s potential ?

I hope you tell him. And everyone else that has a steroid.

Are you sugesting Stan tunes every motor that he builds? Sure he can give recomendations but final tune is dicated by many factors ie. carbs, manifolds, exhaust, muffler, etc. even the car its going in has an effect.

Andrew Grace

bug eyed wrote:i know stan and like him alot, but craig are you telling me that stan sold an engine that ran dangerously lean and at only 4/5 ths of it’s potential ?

I hope you tell him. And everyone else that has a steroid.

the owner had changed the Jets from how it was sold.

You will have no probs if you run the jets that Stan has in the carbs when sold new. This is what I have done and I had 111hp. The Dyno tune will "fine tune" the individual motor for its best HP. In this case about 120hp for the steroids combo. So I guess I should get about an extra 10hp if I had a dyno tune.

Baja Wes wrote:The torque quoted is torque at the wheel or rollers. It is completely different to the torque at the engine, as torque is multiplied up by the gear and diff ratios, and reduced by the gearbox efficiency.

HP is not effected by the gear ratios, only the gearbox efficiency.

Basically those torque figures mean nothing and are only comparitive to each other, as long as they were both achieved in the same gear.

Thanks Wes......should I remove this figure from the post ?

If I get the gear ratio's and tyre size etc can you then work back to find the motor's torque ? or is this just a ratio to HP?

The dyno can provide flywheel torque and HP. With the ratios etc.

If the dyno is only measuring roller speed (kph) then it will only know the wheel HP, and wheel torque (or more accurately force).

If the dyno is attached to the tacho of the engine, then it can calculate the engine torque, but measured at the wheels so less the efficiency.

Does the dyno graph plot HP vs road speed? If so you will have to calculate the torque. You will need to know what gear the dyno pull was done in, and what ratio that gear and the diff ratio was, along with the tyre diameter. If the torque quoted was roller torque then you need to know the roller diameter too.

If the dyno is only measuring roller speed (kph) then it will only know the wheel HP, and wheel torque (or more accurately force).

If the dyno is attached to the tacho of the engine, then it can calculate the engine torque, but measured at the wheels so less the efficiency.

Does the dyno graph plot HP vs road speed? If so you will have to calculate the torque. You will need to know what gear the dyno pull was done in, and what ratio that gear and the diff ratio was, along with the tyre diameter. If the torque quoted was roller torque then you need to know the roller diameter too.

The dyno can be either directly connected to the coil for the tacho or by inputting a ratio on the tacho to the rollers.

It can graph to road speed or engine rmp.

The gearing etc can be input for it to work out engine HP and torque as well as at the wheels.

HotRodMatt wrote:The dyno can be either directly connected to the coil for the tacho

That's what I said, so yes.

or by inputting a ratio on the tacho to the rollers.

That's not normally done. If they don't connect the tacho then they simply plot HP vs road speed.

The gearing etc can be input for it to work out engine HP and torque as well as at the wheels.

Actually the dyno doesn't need to know the gearing or engine speed to calculate the wheel HP.

And a chassis dyno will never calculate engine HP. The operator may use a rule of thumb gearbox efficiency to give an indication of flywheel HP, but again doesn't need to know anything about the ratios.

The dyno will measure wheel force, the force acting tangential to the wheel. If the dyno knows the engine rpm it can calulate the torque from the HP readings, but again it will be out by the gearbox efficiency.

If you don't know the rpm readings, you can convert the wheel force or roller torque to an equivalent engine torque using the gear ratios and tyre diameter, but again it will be out by the gearbox efficiency.

I have converted a HP vs road speed graph to HP vs rpm and then torque vs rpm for Craig in the past. It is in one of the old threads.

Rear wheels =121.5hp at 6000rpm
At the Flywheel= 147.8hp at 6000rpm
Torque = 700 ft lb at 4500rpm



This is impressive HP for these revs keeping in mind this is a stock stroke motor. Very nice combo.
By the way in my other post regarding tuning I wasn't sugesting that Stan doesn't tune motors for customers but rather that a lot of his engines are sent as long engines without accessories such as carbs etc. Therefore it would be very hard for him to control what the customer does.


Andrew Grace

Gracey wrote:Therefore it would be very hard for him to control what the customer does.


Andrew Grace

Does he still offer warranty on long blocks??

Stuffed if i would!

Gracey wrote:Rear wheels =121.5hp at 6000rpm
At the Flywheel= 147.8hp at 6000rpm
Torque = 700 ft lb at 4500rpm

stop quoting the 700ft.lbs, it's got nothing to do with the engine.

121.5HP @ 6000rpm equates to 106 ft.lbs of torque.

The peak torque is usually produced lower in the rev range than the peak power so peak torque will be more than 106ft.lbs, my guess is prob close to 120ft.lbs.

And that engine HP is an estimate, by using the wheel HP and dividing by an estimated gearbox efficiency. So it should say estimated engine HP ~ 148HP.

An 8 liter V10 Dodge Viper motor has a little under 500ft.lbs of torque. So that gives you an idea how out of whack quoting the 700ft.lbs figure looks.

Wes is there any difference in using either 3rd or 4th gear, all of my dyno tests have been done in third but I think I read somewhere that the 120 from the 1916 was done in 4th.
The reason I ask is that in one of the American mags, they were commenting on a particular cars output & they also said that they 'only' used 3rd gear whereas all the other cars used 4th gear. Does it make a lick of difference??
regards
Jak

yes, surely there's some reason it could be wrong 😉
did the american mag say what the ratios were? or the wheel diameters? does it matter at ALL? maybe their 4th was the other guys third anyway...
while we're at it, what speeds at what revs determine whether you have an L-bug gearbox or a superbug gearbox?
I'm doing 270 Kph in third at 1200 rpm 😉
is that tall? hehehe

Baja Wes wrote:The torque quoted is torque at the wheel or rollers. It is completely different to the torque at the engine, as torque is multiplied up by the gear and diff ratios, and reduced by the gearbox efficiency.

HP is not effected by the gear ratios, only the gearbox efficiency.

Basically those torque figures mean nothing and are only comparitive to each other, as long as they were both achieved in the same gear.

Jak, here is your answer re HP. Basically Horsepower is the same in every gear because you are not changing the horsepower of the motor. The motor is still producing the same Horsepower regardless of gearing, what changes is the torque. A gearbox is a torque multipler. So if you did a dyno run in first gear the HP will be the same but the torque will be massive compared to say 4th gear.

I have since found out that Troy's Dyno run was done in third gear, the same gear as his dyno day run .:thumb

Wes, I hope this is correct !

yes Craig your pretty much right there.

There are two basic types of dyno's, inertial and load types. Inertial are usually the cheapest and are more prone to the effects of gear selection, because each gear multiplies the drivetrain inertia differently (a square of the ratio).

A dyno dynamics dyno is a load type dyno and is more accurate. The company has also made what they call "shoot-out" mode. They have made it as an industry standard method of testing HP, so no matter which dyno you test the car on you get the same results.

The load type dyno is still effected by drivetrain inertia but not as badly. The operator will enter the vehicles drivetrain inertia from a standard list of vehicles, however if the drivetrain or engine is modified the figure will be slightly out. This can lead to a small difference in HP figures between gears. Some gears are also slightly different in efficiency than others.

So dyno guys will dyno the car in the highest gear possible, without exceeding the max roller speed. The max roller speed on most dynos is between 200-250kph, so third gear on a VW is normally used.

blue74l wrote:

Gracey wrote:Therefore it would be very hard for him to control what the customer does.


Andrew Grace

Does he still offer warranty on long blocks??

Stuffed if i would!

Well I brought my steriods years ago as a long block and it came with a warranty. So I guess so but you would have to check with Stan. What I do know is that Stan invests a lot of time helping and advising his customers so as to get the best setup. What they do with that advice is up to them.


Andrew Grace

a note from admin, I have deleted a few posts in this thread because they have absolutely nothing to do with this thread. :thumb

Baja Wes wrote:

Gracey wrote:Rear wheels =121.5hp at 6000rpm
At the Flywheel= 147.8hp at 6000rpm
Torque = 700 ft lb at 4500rpm

stop quoting the 700ft.lbs, it's got nothing to do with the engine.

121.5HP @ 6000rpm equates to 106 ft.lbs of torque.

The peak torque is usually produced lower in the rev range than the peak power so peak torque will be more than 106ft.lbs, my guess is prob close to 120ft.lbs.

And that engine HP is an estimate, by using the wheel HP and dividing by an estimated gearbox efficiency. So it should say estimated engine HP ~ 148HP.

An 8 liter V10 Dodge Viper motor has a little under 500ft.lbs of torque. So that gives you an idea how out of whack quoting the 700ft.lbs figure looks.

I'll take your word for it regarding torque but my post was referring to the HP made at a given rpm for a stock stroke motor ie. a lot at relatively low rpm.

Andrew Grace

Thats nice power, and makes me very happy as my pobjoy 1916 base with ally case and 40 dells is ready and waiting for the rest of my car to catch up. Mine however is not the steroids version i wonder if ill get 100 + hp ? On the cost side of things i recently got three quotes from three diff builders A Pobjoy and a pro built stroker and a pro built type 4 i dont mind telling that i went with the pobjoy, the prices were roughly as follows
Pobjoy 1916 base with ally case complete no carbies $6700.
Stroker 75.5 * 90.5 no clutch, carbies ,exhaust , tin ware $ 8800
Type 4 conversion total rebuild complete with porche fan and alternator ,no carbies $9700.
For comparison i also just bought a total new head to head stock 1600 fitted for my girlfriends car and it was $2150.
I am not sure what people are going to think about the etiquette of me putting these figures on here but in my view this is relevant information ( prices obtained 4 weeks ago, and rounded to nearest $100) that any body can obtain with the willingness to make 3 phonecalls. The steroids version (u can get price of the pobjoys) is more again I hope this doesn,t upset to many people.:kiss

oops i forgot something, Once i get motor in my car i will need somebody in the melb area to dyno tune and jet my car for me it will be running 40 drlas that were previously on a 1835. Can anybody recommend somebody with relevant know how that will be willing to tune a new motor built by some one else, i dont wanna get caught up in the whole whos best builder bull i just would like to know who i can go to help get the most out of my new baby? A friend mentioned that a porche race shop might be the go?

:thumb :thumb congrats bigbruvabob. you're gonna love it 😀:thumb :thumb

someone once said there are three things you choose a motor based on (cost, reliability, and power) but you can only have two. looks like you managed to get all three 😀 😀 😀 😀

let us know how it goes, I beat the crap outta my base 1916, and sold it to Craig after that in kit form (pulling it down showed that it was in obscenely good nick) except for the 94's which I kept for the steroids motor.

have fun, but don't lose your license 😀

bigbruvabob wrote:Pobjoy 1916 base with ally case complete no carbies $6700.
Stroker 75.5 * 90.5 no clutch, carbies ,exhaust , tin ware $ 8800

Thanks for the prices :thumb

WOW $8800 for the stroker long block :jesus Then add another $1500 for new Carbies, $300-$500 for a clutch, $400 for exhaust, tinware etc etc that's well over $11000 !


All the best with your new motor 😉

All the best with your new motor 😉 [/quote]

won't be worrying about fitting it in the bay either 😉

--- quote----Mine however is not the steroids version i wonder if ill get 100 + hp ? -----

I think eyeryone agrees .........
No not 100hp

even if it's 75 or 85 that is still a big jump in ponies.

can you outline what you get in your engine for that sort of money

new case- check
stans cam - ?
big 94's - check
stock exhaust - ?
stock heads - ?
stock clutch - ?
stock crank - ?
balanced- ?
new tinware - ?
new 009-?
stan expertise - check
fitting - ?

then we can start to compare apples and bananas, even though it's hard to put a price on genius.

I think some people are getting confused between engine torque, and tractive effort which is a measure at the rollers, and is not a direct link to engine power.

Tractive effort is essentially torque at the wheels. A gearbox is a torque converter. I think most people are more interested in what is happeneing at the wheels than at the flywheel.

For those who want flywheel readings the machine can be given the info and it can calculate back. Some dynos even have hundreds of factory combinations to choose from to give this information.

have a read of this, this is pretty interesting:

clicky

ok here we go, new alluminium case, crank ground and lynished, all new bearings and seals,37/68 cam,hd 30mmoil pump,new pushrod tubes, new 94 p and c, anti surge deep sump,crom stud kit,trw 040 comp heads ported and matched to new manifolds,soft bonded clutch and pressure plate,009 dizzy and squizot coil,thunderbird extractors and clamp kit, spakplugs and ignition cables,new oil cooler,decked lightened and dowelled flywheel,dynamic balancing, other bits and pieces and stans magic, i supplied generator,some tin and a pair of 40 dells which i am hoping will give me a bit more hp over the standard base kadrons.am also going to fit a porche fan alt and shroud as soon as i russle up another grand.😎

now that's a good price !!

Hey,bigbruvabob dude,is it a std crank or counterweighted,just curious thanks 😉

its standard i was going to get the c/w crank it costs about $600 more but stan said that it really wouldn't make much diff without the more serious heads and carbs that he uses on the steroids motor and that if i wanted to upgrade to the roids motor at a later date he would still have to tear it all down to do anyway.😎

As promised, copy of dyno run. Please note this was done in shootout mode.

now that's a tasty lookin apple :thumb
puts a lot out there when you see troy's driveability curve and all..

That's pretty impressive; peak stock horsepower from about 3050 rpm, and generally uphill all the way from there... Peak power at 5800-ish... That seems to be a very useable power curve! Hell, I'd be happy if my kombi made that kind of power!! :o

I'd love to see a torque curve - was it graphed at all?

torque curve is on the bottom of the graph :thumb.... measurement is on the right of the graph. :thumb

That is not a torque curve, it is a force at the surface of the roller. That is why it is in lbs.

I will calculate a torque curve...

We'll remember that earlier I said...

Baja Wes wrote:stop quoting the 700lbs, it's got nothing to do with the engine.

121.5HP @ 6000rpm equates to 106 ft.lbs of torque.

The peak torque is usually produced lower in the rev range than the peak power so peak torque will be more than 106ft.lbs, my guess is prob close to 120ft.lbs.

Well my guess was good. That HP graph translates to a peak torque of almost 118ft.lbfs @ approx 4900rpm.

Anyway, here is the HP and torque curve, plotted against all the other dyno sheets people have provided recently. Troy's engine has more torque everywhere, but doesn't rev as well as Craig's or Greg's cars.

u da Man, Wes
😉
:thumb

Baja Wes wrote:We'll remember that earlier I said...

Baja Wes wrote:stop quoting the 700lbs, it's got nothing to do with the engine.

121.5HP @ 6000rpm equates to 106 ft.lbs of torque.

The peak torque is usually produced lower in the rev range than the peak power so peak torque will be more than 106ft.lbs, my guess is prob close to 120ft.lbs.

Well my guess was good. That HP graph translates to a peak torque of almost 118ft.lbfs @ approx 4900rpm.

Anyway, here is the HP and torque curve, plotted against all the other dyno sheets people have provided recently. Troy's engine has more torque everywhere, but doesn't rev as well as Craig's or Greg's cars.

excellent graph Wes, would be interesting to see what mine would put out with more than 9.0:1 compression, maybe 10.8:1 is on the cards then:thumb
will be interesting to see what Craig & Greg get after a dyno tune at CBB

Jak

I thought someone said that Greg has already been?
Jak

Craig Torrens wrote:Greg Wards 1916cc, dyno was done on a 40Deg C day,room temp on graph is 37 Deg C, not the best for making power !!
(about 10% power loss due to heat)

That's the thing with shoot-out mode. It will compensate for the temperature. So really it shouldn't make any more power on a cooler day, because the temp has already been accounted for. You can see on the bottom of the graph it recorded the room temp and relative humidity and tried to compensate for that. Whether it compensates correctly for an air-cooled VW is another matter entirely.

I have remade the graphs to suit Greg's latest 111.7HP dyno read out.

The first attachment is Greg's current graph against his old graph. You can see it on his dyno plot that shows the air fuel ratio, that there is a rich spot in the rev range at ~4350rpm. This corresponds to a dip in the power curve at the same point, obviously hurting HP. You can see just how much it is hurting from the comparison of his old and new HP curves. There is definitely some more midrange to be gained with correct jetting.

The next one is all 4 VW engines against each other, but with Gregs latest chart instead of his old one.

Troy's engine is weird. It has more torque everywhere. Either it has higher compression than the other engines, bigger capacity, or a more efficient gearbox. A more efficient gear could be due to different helix angle gears, or just a gearbox and CV's in better condition (and CV's running less angle), could even be due to better gearbox oil (thinner with less friction?)

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by Baja Wes]

ooooh a dyno curve gang-bang!:thumb

In 1990 (I think) I purchased a 1916 from Stan. In '93 or '94 it snapped the head off a valve at 100kms on the freeway. One head, one barrel and piston immediately shagged, and then after teardown I sent the case for a soak and the nice gentlemen left it in the acid bath too long. Case was stuffed. Rebuild was getting too expensive compared to replacement stocker to get on the road again. The beetle is long gone but I still have the remainder of the 1916 parts. I can't remember the cam grind, I'd have to drag out some old paperwork. Do you 1916 gurus reckon it's worth rebuilding, or have too many advances been made in "1916 technology" in that time? Where would I buy one barrel and one piston from anyway? I also found the cam a bit of a dog on hot days - wouldn't idle. Used to sound great, but!!!!!!

Yeah but is the same thing going to happen? (rhetorical question)

Does Stan use different valve stems now?
Has he moved on from the cam grinds of that era? I spose I should ring him, but I'm only just thinking about this now...don't really have time to ring during the day....maybe I'd better make some time..

I think I might of seen that acid-dipped engine case lying around somewhere in a workshop. Would that be yours?

:jesus

my fathers new beetle in 68 dropped a valve after 1 week, it could happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime, regardless of who built it.
Do a rebuild & get another hot vw on the streets!
regards
Jak

can't wait to see my dyno. pretty much the same as troy's but only a few months old 😉 probably won't make a lot of difference, knowing how well stan's motor's retain HP. when I get it, can I have a snot green curve to match my sleeper, Wes?😀

for you Pete, anything. 😀

woohoo!!
:bounce

Lucky u reposted the graph Craig, some of us almost forgot. U should have reminded us more often.

Its an awesome result Craig, I doubt very much anyone would try to take it away from Stan & his engine building skills. Maybe in another 20 years when I have built more than 6 engines I can get a result similar.
See u on Saturday

regards
Jak

Craig

Is this twin plug??

Craig :sandrine

All this talk, why not just buy mine, ready to go! See my add on the forum or come for a demo drive. Call me 0410 323 020.

Craig Paton wrote:Craig

Is this twin plug??

Craig :sandrine

No.............not yet.🙂

That'll make an interesting comparison !!!

Twin Plug or not to twin plug,
That is the question ????????????????

:vader

Do any of you know if Mr. Pobjoy has ever tried playing with a waterboxer?

Rudy Frank (silver race bug) managed a 126.6hp from his 1916cc pobjoy spec last Friday

I thought Rudy built his own engine?
The combination had been changed again since his last dyno session?

And from what I heard we should expect even more out of his current engine with some more sorting! Can't wait to see that!

I think a day at the roundy-roundies might be coming up...

[Edited on 17-9-2004 by HotRodMatt]