I was referred to this board by one of your members.
I'm in the process of swapping a '98 Subaru EJ25 engine in my 1970 Bug.
I heard some where that it is possible to mock up a VSS using a HAL (?) switch ?
Anybodu got any good info on how o build this ? I think you need to mount a magnet on one of the driveshafts, and then the switch recognizes the rotation ?
gidday Rob,
just today i sorted out my speed sensor I think! Reed switch in back of speedo so is triggered by manet which operates the needle. I got the clue on how to do it from this link: www.smallcar.com/speeds.htm
this seems to work fine (up to 135kph indicated but due to big wheels about 150 kph actual) which is as fast as i've been able to test it so far.
good luck
tonyg
The ECU on my EJ20 expects to see the VSS pin connected to ground 4 times per wheel revolution. The Vanagon uses a reed switch and magnets in the speedo drive to achieve this. I think the same setup can be applied to the 1990's vintage EJ non-turbo Subarus.
Kombicol has adapted a Commodore optical VSS.
I plan on using a hall sensor and some magnets on the CV.
Transparu ·
A friend has been with Telstra (Telecom) for >30 years and dealt with reed switches.
He responded to my question thus:
( He is NOT favourable disposed to my Transporter campervan, nor impressed by its performance.)
I would not use a reed relay. Consider this. An average car probably has a wheel rotation of 500 rpm. Therefore the Kraut Kramper would be roughly 250 rpm except when it is coming down the hill at West Ashgrove. You require 4 pulses per revolution. This means that the reed relay is operating at 1000 operations per minute.
This means the reed relay would operate 60,000,000 times per 1000 hours of use of the KK. I used to know the life of a reed relay because hundreds were used in an Ericsson telephone exchange. What I do know is that the quality of reed switches you would buy in Brisbane would be such that they probably have a life of only a few hundred thousand operations if you are very, very lucky.
FWIW
Dave
Transparu ·
I've attached a file describing a Hall Effect VSS. The Allegro UGN3060KA sensor can be had as a free sample from the US manufacturer (even to here in Australia) if you only ask for 2. There are NO other parts other than magnets and cable.
This VSS works for me.
I wish I could recall who in the US sent me the circuit.
Dave
seagull ·
I have 5 peices of the new series hall unit comming from the USA in the next few days .
I would like to know your thoughts Jenny on proximity units like ( sick ) or PP units .High speed ? what to ask for ect , these are just look like a easy way of mounting > have a thread with two nuts pree wired better IP rating ect
like I said just your thoughts and part numbers> links ect Jenny 🙂 seagull
Jenny ·
Time for some math:
Using 4 pulses per wheel revolution and a 205/70R15 tyre. This has a diameter of about 0.668m and a circumferance of about 2.1m.
At 100km/hr you have about 47619 wheel rotations at 4 pulses/rotation = 190476 pulses in 3600 seconds = 52.94pulse/second or Hz
Your sensor needs to operate over the range of about 1Hz to 100Hz, which is not high speed.
In order for the sensor to act like the reed switch and connect the ECU pin to ground you will need one that has an open collector NPN transistor output. If you're keen then have a read of this http://www.allegromicro.com/techpub2/an/an27701.pdf
There is also good info available at the Honeywell and ASSMtech web sites.
ASSEMtech have a fully encapsulated one (at least IP55) part PSS25S/30, available from Farnell. Note that the cheaper proximity sensors are actually only reed switches. The hall type ones start at about $50
nn[ Edited on 28-7-2005 by Jenny ]
MikeM ·
I plan to use one of these mounted at an inner CV with a star shaped piece of metal attached to the CV. The points of the star would pass through the sensor. It is an On/Off hall effect device in a robust case, seems ideal.
Thanks mike , I did ring jaycar about this one , told me no stock , rang again to day , yes we have stock now ! I off to get one .
MikeM ·
gull wrote:Thanks mike , I did ring jaycar about this one , told me no stock , rang again to day , yes we have stock now ! I off to get one .
Didn't you just say that you have 5 coming in from the States?
I'm confused.
seagull ·
Thanks for your post Jenny well done .I wish you lived down the road I am sure our projects would be running at the same time by now .
Yes thats correct Mike > long story but there samples comming from the USA , this takes 2 to 6 weeks .I need one now so purchased the jaycar unit today , what a shop ! have some great gear , I must get out my office more I did not know this place was even there , all types of kits you can make .
seagull
O I post you one when ( if ) they turn upnn[ Edited on 29-7-2005 by seagull ]
seagull ·
Just a thinking have a look at the subaru main pully , mine has 4 x 8mm holes spaced in it same size as the magnets I have , the unit from jaycar fits behind the pully bolted to the cam covers .
just an idea ? seagull
Jenny ·
Neil if you drive it off the main pully you would be counting engine RPM, I thought you wanted to measure road speed? What are you using as your speedo on the trike? If you're using a normal motorcycle one with a mechanical cable drive off the front wheel then you may be better off buying that VDO part 412.009 and fitting it between the cable and your speedo. See catalogue page 66 & 67 herehttp://www.siemensvdo.com.au/files/2388_VDO%20CATALOGUE.pdf
The Jaycar sensor does not sound like an open collector type but, as I don't know the ECU circuit, it may still work.
The trigger disc for that type of sensor normally looks like an upside down small metal cup, with notches cut out of the lip. The lip with notches goes through the slot on the sensor making it switch, but the star shaped disc that you describe Mike should work too.
nn[ Edited on 29-7-2005 by Jenny ]nn[ Edited on 29-7-2005 by Jenny ]
seagull ·
Hi Jenny , yes its a motor bike speedo , I dont have any space to fit the vdo unit .
I found the Jaycar switches with magnets as well ( it did on the bench ) but I am machining a metal disk to day to do as mike is saying to fit to the cv flange.if this works I lazer cut some out .
cheers neil
seagull ·
My set up I doing this weekend , making and mounting of the metal starplate to cv .I be making the bracket for the hall unit tomorrow .
seagull ·
Mounted the plate to the back of the cv , I removed the three retaining plates ( stock vw ) .I will make an ajustable braket of the swing arm to mount the hall unit to .
seagull ·
the finished uint mounted and wired to the ecu
MikeM ·
Seagull,
Looks good. My idea came to life and I didn't have to do anything! You've basically done what I planed to do. Only difference is I'm hoping to mount the star on the inner CV and make a bracket mounted under the clutch tube bracket to hold hall effect .
My car is only a few months away from needing this so I'm keen to hear how is goes.
Keep us informed Neil!
Thanks
seagull ·
Mike I found the small amout of play in the inner cv would collect the hall unit and smash it .
just hang in there as the samples are on there way , these may be better for a buggy set up .what I have will never see off road work , when you see it you will understand .
Neil
seagull ·
Mike the units arrived on friday ( 10 peices ) I load a photo soon .
MikeM ·
seagull wrote:Mike the units arrived on friday ( 10 peices ) I load a photo soon .
Cool!
seagull ·
Mike the units are ( ICs ) you would need to make the unit up
if some one would like to ( can do ) I will send these to them , may be we can sell them off & funds to the fourm ??
I can do some experimenting with them, but they are not the open collector output type, so I can't guarantee they'll work.
MikeM ·
Any more happening on these?
seagull ·
no Mike its easy to get the one from jaycar , the other set up is lots of work .
Jenny ·
Another vehicle speed sensor alternative - maybe.
I'm tacking this on here to keep the VSS info together. I notice that the links on page 1 of this thread to the other VSS threads no longer work!
Anyway, I have been experimenting with some inductive gear tooth sensors, Turk part numbers Ni12U-M18-AN4X and Bi5-M18-AN6X. These were freebies, so not sure what they'd cost, but an equivalent by Automation Direct is the Centsable inductive proximity sensor type AK1-AN-2A, which retails for about $50.
These are open collector NPN output types. My idea is to mount the sensor so that it triggers off the hex cap bolt heads on the CV joint. They seem to work OK on the bench but I have not tried them on the car yet. the Ni12U can be mounted up to 8mm away from the bolt and still trigger, while the Bi5 must be mounted withing 5mm.
Like I said, I haven't tried it on the car. One thing to note is that the Subaru VSS expects to see 4 pulse/wheel revolution. Using the CV joint cap screws will give 6 pulses/rev. Not sure how well that will work, but I thought someone said the COR VDO part that goes between the speedo cable and speedo actually puts out more that 4 pulses/rev and that works fine.
OK, found it here - VDo part = 6 pulses http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=32115&page=1#pid272497
[ Edited on 25-1-2006 by Jenny ]
[ Edited on 25-1-2006 by Jenny ]
Transparu ·
In my EJ22 I found the ECU is happy with 2 pulses per wheel revolution and has been running happily that way for maybe a year. Didn't try it with 6 though.
FWIW
Well it's my turn to have a crack at the vss issue. Now I know the ecru needs a vss so it doesn't flip out but I actually need a proper and correct signal as I am keeping my electronic subaru liberty dash. I know I can use a correction box to fine tune the final product, but how do i get the right signal the subaru ecru is looking for? Is 4ish the correct number or is it just good enough? So which of the following would be better?
1) use the setup seagull has used with a plat mounted to the outer cv and have hall effect sensor as per this post (by the way seagull what are your thoughts on this system now?)
if you are using the subaru instrument panel connect the speedo up as well...i made an adapter out of metal brake line and the ECU is happy. been that way for a couple of years. speedo reads too slow but its close enough to 2/3rds so if it reads 100 i'm doing 150...😁...one of these days i'll make a little stepup box...or maybe i won't😉
Joel ·
My $25 DIY proxmity sensor VSS has been working flawlessly for the last 5000kms, and same setup is working in elconcreto too
speed is accurate upto 300mph 😂
and the computer doesnt have a tissy on the dyno cos the speed sensor isnt turning cos it runs off the back wheels
robertocarlos ·
So you have connected the vss to a digital speedo?
Joel ·
Nope, I still run a stock speedo, but its just 5 pulses per wheel revolution same as stock subi VSS
It works off the axle so its 100% accurate
Hutcho ·
Could you guys that have functioning VSS setups please post some pics?
Cheers
Steve
gazman ·
This is the one in our V6 lowlight -
We asked Pat Gardner at V6 conversions nicely, sent him an old speedo cable, and he made us this sensor. It screws onto the back of the speedo and then the stock cable screws onto the sensor. Has been working fine for a couple of years now....
Bugaru03 ·
gazman wrote:This is the one in our V6 lowlight -
We asked Pat Gardner at V6 conversions nicely, sent him an old speedo cable, and he made us this sensor. It screws onto the back of the speedo and then the stock cable screws onto the sensor. Has been working fine for a couple of years now....
I have the same sensor but different branch and it works fine to me for the last 15000kms!
I hope I'm allowed to plug another site, I like to plug Hellbus's, Jorgan's, Brent's & Jim's pages
robertocarlos ·
Question for Joel - where did you find that 5 pulses per revolution is the right number for the ecu? from what i've read most people run 4.
i'm having so much fun at the moment...hahahaha
Joel ·
Maybe its 4 for the later engines but all my research for 90s engines like mine said 5 pulses and my donor Libertys speed sensor certainly gave 5 pulses per wheel revolution.
With the earlier ones it doesnt really matter, just as long as the ECU knows that the car is moving or not, Some people just run with 2 pulses,
Later ones use the vehicles speed to dictate what speed the rad fans run at.
Either way I feel its better than a pulse generator which makes the ECU think the car is permantly moving.
Heres my setup,
Its an inductive proxmity sensor, basically a metal detector.
I could run a speedo off it if need be but stock speedo aint broke
robertocarlos ·
Just another question about the type of pulses the ecru is expecting. Square wave? Amplitude? Length of each pulse? As mentioned previously I need to replicate the signal perfectly so the electronic subaru speedo doesn't flip out.
Cheers
ratbug ·
robertocarlos wrote:Just another question about the type of pulses the ecru is expecting. Square wave? Amplitude? Length of each pulse? As mentioned previously I need to replicate the signal perfectly so the electronic subaru speedo doesn't flip out.
Cheers
By the success of all the different setups it looks like it doesnt matter too much. It wants a square wave, from GND to about 12V. Length or duty cycle probably doesnt matter, it probably works by counting the edge rise/or fall from 0 to 12V.
Hutcho ·
Joel,
Do you know if your prox switch is NPN or PNP? I've installed an NPN (ECU speed signal wire switches to ground, PNP output switches to 12 V) as I thought this is what the ECU should see as per the rest of devices in the wiring circuit.
Just interested to see what you're running.
Cheers,
Steve
Joel ·
Hi Steve, its an NPN
is it the same looking unit as mine?
one of my mates in the US has just got one for his and its got all the same wiring, brown, black and blue
mines setup up brown is ignition power, blue is earth and black is ECU signal
pete wood ·
Bugaru03 wrote:
gazman wrote:This is the one in our V6 lowlight -
We asked Pat Gardner at V6 conversions nicely, sent him an old speedo cable, and he made us this sensor. It screws onto the back of the speedo and then the stock cable screws onto the sensor. Has been working fine for a couple of years now....
I have the same sensor but different branch and it works fine to me for the last 15000kms!
got one too. it runs on an EJ25 too. works great, no dramas
Mick058 ·
pete wood wrote:
Bugaru03 wrote:
gazman wrote:This is the one in our V6 lowlight -
We asked Pat Gardner at V6 conversions nicely, sent him an old speedo cable, and he made us this sensor. It screws onto the back of the speedo and then the stock cable screws onto the sensor. Has been working fine for a couple of years now....
I have the same sensor but different branch and it works fine to me for the last 15000kms!
got one too. it runs on an EJ25 too. works great, no dramas
These gave me huge issues - the one that i had brought broke within a couple of hours. Got a new one, same thing happened. Looked the exact same. Not sure why mine kept failing.
pete wood ·
was in a NEW speedo cable? the guy who made mine up said put it in a new one.
gazman ·
Yeah we put in a new cable when we fitted ours too.....
robertocarlos ·
Hi all,
Thanks for everyones input. I've been doing some more research and according to a Subaru Diagnostics page the ideal siganl the ECU is looking for is 0V-5V with a length of approximately 100ms. Now its time to find something that will generate that kind of a signal.
flat_iv ·
What I did and it works perfectly is to use a NPN prox switch and it reads off the front wheel studs. I drilled and tapped a hole in the front spindle. screwed in the prox. Been working for several years now. Using it with a 95 2.2 ECU.