Dyno Sheet
[Edited on 2-3-2004 by Craig Torrens]
Craig Torrens 路
Aussieveedubbers 路 VW Circuit Racing
xx
https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/threads/19738/xx
MickH 路
!!!!!!!!馃榾
wibble 路
is that rear wheel or flywheel??
HotRodMatt 路
At the wheels.
56astro 路
I love that sort of talk!wibble wrote:is that rear wheel or flywheel??
馃槑
Gracey 路
Thanks Craig, I was just about to ask you if you had it yet.馃榾
I must say that looks like a Honda torque curve...........very flat:thumb:thumb
Andrew Grace
I must say that looks like a Honda torque curve...........very flat:thumb:thumb
Andrew Grace
Cam 路
AMG beat you all :P
56astro 路
where has the dyno sheet gone??
Desert Moose 路
What this one ......lol56astro wrote:where has the dyno sheet gone??
Alex Holzl 路
gotta bigga one
Desert Moose 路
I will try again................ yes its bigger but it fuzzy :cry
pete wood 路
So what does craig's slip look like?
Doesn't show up on my puter screen 馃檨
Doesn't show up on my puter screen 馃檨
fullnoise 路
Deja vu. I have a headache.:cry
gayanne 路
MickH 路
You will lose power through the gearbox. If the engine had 200hp at the flywheel it would not have the same at the rear wheels.
Gracey 路
Even motorcycles experience HP loss through their drivetrain and they one of the most efficient. Around 5% for chain and sprockets.
HotRodMatt 路
All gearboxes reduce HP.
Just need to look at all the work that Dyno Dynamics have done testing hundreds of engine/trans so that their chassis dynos can provide a calculated back to the flywheel figure if desired.
Even the direct drive of a Top Fueler looses HP through the clutch.
Just need to look at all the work that Dyno Dynamics have done testing hundreds of engine/trans so that their chassis dynos can provide a calculated back to the flywheel figure if desired.
Even the direct drive of a Top Fueler looses HP through the clutch.
AdrianH 路
Work on about 15% loss, so 121@wheels = 140@the fly...
Think about that 80 weight oil being squeezed outta teeth, theres a reason it gets hot... friction
Think about that 80 weight oil being squeezed outta teeth, theres a reason it gets hot... friction
gayanne 路
Lots of expert opinions and all constructive,it still comes down to diff ratios working threw Gboxes and tyres.Percentage Hp for rear engines is 5% to10% this info comes from Goodman Race Engines ,gives us somthing to think about when doing Dyno runs to Track runs.JVLRacing
[Edited on 30-6-2004 by gayanne]
[Edited on 30-6-2004 by gayanne]
Desert Moose 路
I want Goodman to build me a transaxle. yahoo only 1%Craig Torrens wrote:What drugs are you on !!!gayanne wrote:
And NO, Stan would not agree.
And if Goodman engines think that you only loose 1% of your horsepower through a gearbox well........................
humpty 路
Any spec on the Pobjoy donk or are we liven a dream?
As for loosing power through the trans...Gene Berg told me 15 years ago that you can expect around 15% loss, minimum.
My little 1776 made a best quarter of 14.8 and no special trans ratios....
So what can I expect for HP.
Never dyno'd it, may have to some day!
Keep in mind my engine is now over 10 years old!
[Edited on 30-6-2004 by humpty]
As for loosing power through the trans...Gene Berg told me 15 years ago that you can expect around 15% loss, minimum.
My little 1776 made a best quarter of 14.8 and no special trans ratios....
So what can I expect for HP.
Never dyno'd it, may have to some day!
Keep in mind my engine is now over 10 years old!
[Edited on 30-6-2004 by humpty]
seagull 路
Simon may be perth should have a vw dyno day ??
humpty 路
I know Myaree Dyno tune have dyno days from time to time. Everyone turns up, big blocks to cosworths....Be nice to see a certain red Notch there!, Maybe my bug too!
Desert Moose 路
What a top idea !!! who in perth has a Dyno Dynamics dyno..:thumbseagull wrote:Simon may be perth should have a vw dyno day ??
[Edited on 30-6-2004 by Desert Moose]
Peter Leonard 路
humpty, first we need to know what the car weighed.
gayanne 路
Craig Torrens wrote:What drugs are you on !!!gayanne wrote:
And NO, Stan would not agree.
And if Goodman engines think that you only loose 1% of your horsepower through a gearbox well........................
AdrianH 路
Not trying to start a shit fight, but is it possible to have a look at the specs on a Pobjoy ? Cam ? compression ? etc... or do you have to sign a confidentiality agreement or something before buying one??
Ive picked up little tidbits of info, looking for some substance !!!
Ive picked up little tidbits of info, looking for some substance !!!
Craig Paton 路
Me to Adrian!!
These Dynamic Dyno's do they take into account horsepower sapping high altitude??
Craig P.:bounce
These Dynamic Dyno's do they take into account horsepower sapping high altitude??
Craig P.:bounce
Baja Wes 路
RE: gearbox losses.
as others have said, use 15% as a minimum.
Most dyno operators will use about 17%. This is right for most modern vehicles, and mainly front wheel drives. FWD cars has efficient gearboxes as each gearset is parallel to the next.
VW's are older designs, and has a ring and pinion, which is not very efficient. Kombi gearboxes are less efficent than beetle gearboxes. VW gearbox'es seem to be losing somewhere between 20 and 25%.
It the helical gears that suck the power. The helix angle forces some of the torque to be transmitted, and some of it to be wasted in a thrust force.
This is why race cars use striaght cut gears in their gearboxes. They don't have the inefficency problems of helical gears.
Motorcycles almost always use straight cut gears, that is why they are much more efficient.
as others have said, use 15% as a minimum.
Most dyno operators will use about 17%. This is right for most modern vehicles, and mainly front wheel drives. FWD cars has efficient gearboxes as each gearset is parallel to the next.
VW's are older designs, and has a ring and pinion, which is not very efficient. Kombi gearboxes are less efficent than beetle gearboxes. VW gearbox'es seem to be losing somewhere between 20 and 25%.
It the helical gears that suck the power. The helix angle forces some of the torque to be transmitted, and some of it to be wasted in a thrust force.
This is why race cars use striaght cut gears in their gearboxes. They don't have the inefficency problems of helical gears.
Motorcycles almost always use straight cut gears, that is why they are much more efficient.
gayanne 路
TextWell said baja wes you have done your homework top stuff and i should of explained myself better.Talking Racecars to standard cars is a lot different.Thanks JVLRacingBaja Wes wrote:RE: gearbox losses.
as others have said, use 15% as a minimum.
Most dyno operators will use about 17%. This is right for most modern vehicles, and mainly front wheel drives. FWD cars has efficient gearboxes as each gearset is parallel to the next.
VW's are older designs, and has a ring and pinion, which is not very efficient. Kombi gearboxes are less efficent than beetle gearboxes. VW gearbox'es seem to be losing somewhere between 20 and 25%.
It the helical gears that suck the power. The helix angle forces some of the torque to be transmitted, and some of it to be wasted in a thrust force.
This is why race cars use striaght cut gears in their gearboxes. They don't have the inefficency problems of helical gears.
Motorcycles almost always use straight cut gears, that is why they are much more efficient.
VWCOOL 路
lol... 5%? 10? gayenne - YOU'RE JOKING. Or misinformed. One percent is just fantasy stuff that not even a Toyota Prius could hope for. Driveline loss for a current-generation manual gearbox is typically 25 percent. I don't know for sure, but it will possibly be more for an older-generation manual gearbox (developed in the days before emissions and fuel consumption targets.) And a transaxle has just as many whirly bits as a 'normal' car so don't tell me any stories about it being more compact or some crap...gayanne wrote:Craig Torrens wrote:What drugs are you on !!!gayanne wrote:
And NO, Stan would not agree.
And if Goodman engines think that you only loose 1% of your horsepower through a gearbox well........................
Who cares anyway - it's effort at the wheels that makes the car go!
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by VWCOOL]
gayanne 路
TextYes 1% is fantasy land 5to 10% is around the money for race cars.20%is about the figures you would use standard boxes If you read bajawes quote i agreed with his technical notes so please read the quotes a little better.JVLRacingVWCOOL wrote:lol... 5%? 10? gayenne - YOU'RE JOKING. Or misinformed. One percent is just fantasy stuff that not even a Toyota Prius could hope for. Driveline loss for a current-generation manual gearbox is typically 25 percent. I don't know for sure, but it will possibly be more for an older-generation manual gearbox (developed in the days before emissions and fuel consumption targets.) And a transaxle has just as many whirly bits as a 'normal' car so don't tell me any stories about it being more compact or some crap...gayanne wrote:Craig Torrens wrote:What drugs are you on !!!gayanne wrote:
And NO, Stan would not agree.
And if Goodman engines think that you only loose 1% of your horsepower through a gearbox well........................
Who cares anyway - it's effort at the wheels that makes the car go!
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by VWCOOL]
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by gayanne]
71superbug 路
oh. my. god. so many quotes. you would think this is U2U. heh. but. nehoo. i think we established 20% by now 馃榾 what a standard 1600 got at the wheels? or even flywheel for that matter?
humpty 路
Pete...Can't remember off hand what a stock 63 bug weighs, but surely mine wouldn't much more than that. Add some drivetrain bits like dellortos, sump, OBERG, tramp bar, intermediate mount, disc brakes, sway bar and 15" FUCHS.
Ball park?
Ball park?
Craig Torrens 路
Humpty, probably around 90hp.
humpty 路
Cheers Craig..... I can live with that.... For now!
By the way, is that @ the FW or RW?
Now where's that turbo motor I've been piecing together for the last 6 years!
How's married life Craig?
Never did pick up that visor, ya bugger!
Don't worry about, I haven't even tried to move since!
[Edited on 4-7-2004 by humpty]
By the way, is that @ the FW or RW?
Now where's that turbo motor I've been piecing together for the last 6 years!
How's married life Craig?
Never did pick up that visor, ya bugger!
Don't worry about, I haven't even tried to move since!
[Edited on 4-7-2004 by humpty]
71superbug 路
jesus. 90hp and a 14.8 u r doing well humpty. u2u me as i am checking out the option of building a 1776cc motor.
Baja Wes 路
I reckon a 14.8 in an early beetle would need around 100HP at the wheels.
It depends on the weight of the car and driver amoung other things. My guess for car driver and fuel would be at least 830kg.
My guess is based on my acceleration spreadsheet.
http://www.offroadvw.net/exceldyno/
It depends on the weight of the car and driver amoung other things. My guess for car driver and fuel would be at least 830kg.
My guess is based on my acceleration spreadsheet.
http://www.offroadvw.net/exceldyno/