BIG tyres under stock kombi guards (photos on page 2)

Ok, I have to repost this since the forum went down....

Finally, I've managed to fit some rear tyres that I'm happy with. The wheels are from a BA Falcon one-tonner, machined by Ian (aka Desert Bug) to suit the kombi 112mm stud pattern (Falcon PCD=114.3mm). The tyres are Pirelli Scorpion 235/85-16 LT's with an All-Terrain tread.

Results? I have about 12mm clearance to the inside lip of the rear guards, and 8mm clearance between the tyre and the spring plate. The rolling radius is now 384mm (compared to my previous 291mm!!!).

Theoretically this works out to around 4240rpm @ 100kmh in 3rd, and approx (in practice) 2900rpm @ 100kmh in 4th. In other words, I can rev to peak power (4200rpm) in third and then change into fourth and find myself at close to peak torque (2800rpm). I don't know if anyone had noticed, but stock kombis work this way anyway. The difference is, I'm now doing it at around 100kmh! 😀

The purpose behind this is to gain footprint area (and hence flotation) when I'm on the beach this coming Xmas. I've done it on stock-sized tyres before, but they were less than ideal, requiring me to lower my tyre pressures radically (7psi) which resulted in two tyres coming off the bead. Hopefully I should be able to run these new tyres at around 12-15psi.

I'm also hoping to gain some fuel economy on the longer trips while I'm loping along at about 3000rpm instead of screaming along at about 4000rpm as I have been. Mileage tests are underway, I'll post results when I have some.

The downside of all this is that taller gears effect my take-off. The bus is noticably slower getting off the line, but still quite ok for around town. Fourth gear is now basically an overdrive; pretty useless for going up big hills, but I can also change down to third and maintain 110kmh, which I couldn't before.

The new drive ratio will be a problem for steep bush-work, where I have found the kombi's major limitation to be gearing (even with stock-sized tyres). I'm not really going to let this bother me, as I'd decided a year or so ago not to try to out-do 4x4's as I was suffering too much body damage anyway, and I don't think it will be a problem on the sand.

I did take the family out for a drive in the bush around Walhalla on the weekend, but not on anything really steep. I found the larger tyres ride considerably better over bumps and holes, and the additional 90mm clearance gives me some peace of mind also. Hopefully I won't be losing my tailpipe once I've replaced it! 🙂

Next on the wish list is some new front tyres, to be mounted on the other 3 wheels that are waiting for cashflow, followed by a custom rear bar with twin, swing-away wheel carriers and some better shockers to try to counteract some of the extra body roll I'm encountering. I have to keep reminding myself though, there's nothing wrong with having goals!!

[Edited on 14-5-2004 by KruizinKombi]

[ Edited on 2-11-2006 by KruizinKombi ]

Those tyres are huge! have you lifted the rear suspention at all?
Alex.

Nope. That's the beauty of the wheels I bought from Ian: they fit straight under without modification, even with tyres this size! 😀

hey
sounds like what i want to do!!! what tyres you running just desert duelers?
cheers
rhys

The tyres are Pirelli Scorpion 235/85-16 LT's with an All-Terrain tread.

Buggy Brad is riunning DDs on 16"s,
see:
http://www.aussiekombicampers.com/projects_bbw.shtml

hth

That is sooooooo extreme Kol...

😀 LOL

Well done!

Rhys, read the post:

The tyres are Pirelli Scorpion 235/85-16 LT's with an All-Terrain tread.

Yeah modulus, Brad emailed me some pics of his wheels while the forum was down... I love his wheels, but the tyres just aren't big enough for my purposes. One of Brad's criteria when choosing tyres was that he would only run a single spare, so the tyres have to fit under the front as well. I'm running two spares, so I can afford to run a larger size tyre on the back. I wouldn't mind a set of those alloys when the $$$ are flowing though.

I dunno whether I'd call these extreme, because I haven't cut the guards, but these are the bigest tyres I've seen fitted to a stock kombi. 😀😀😀

Two spares what a PITA that would be.. I see you have about 30mm more height / 60mm rolling diameter than I do with 215 x 65 x 16's

As for extreme, man they are only the same size as the front tyres on my buggy,:P:P

some panel damage u have to attend to there brad!!! nice wheels by the way are these the audi ones from dubs by the pub u were talkin about?
cheers
rhys

Yeah Brad, two spares is a PITA, but I'll solve that eventually with twin swing-away spare carriers on a custom rear bar when I can afford it. That will also get the weight onto the back where I want it.

As for ground clearance, that was never my intention. The aim was to get the maximum contact patch possible without cutting the guards, and I think I've done that. They're not much bigger than yours, but they're still bigger! :P😉

Make life easy if you have to get under and adjust the clutch.

Yeah Pete, you're right!! Before these wheels I couldn't fit under the kombi on my creeper trolley, but now I slide right under!!! 😀😀😀

These wheels were almost worth the effort for that alone! 😉

Brad, according to the Tyre Size Calculator someone posted in Tech Talk, I've got 60mm more height in my tyres than yours.... (see pic) :P

I'm kinda curious, how much clearance do you get between your front tyres and the wheelarch lip? Did you cut anything?

I've now had a pair of 215/70-16 Bridgestone Dueler H/Ts fitted to the front on BA Falcon wheels again. While I'm not 100% happy with this size, they do level the kombi somewhat, and bring my speedo within 2% accuracy at 100kph. The best part is that they probably have 75-80% tread left on them and only cost me $30 fitted for the pair. They even fit two other tyres for me first and took them off again because they were too big (225/75-16 and 235/70-16). So far the whole effort for 6 wheels and 5 tyres has cost me only $480!!! 😀😀😀

Next I need to get a replacement rear bar with twin swing-away spare carriers......

[Edited on 17-4-2004 by KruizinKombi]

Well that's worked out well, and the Kombi's looking good. Amazing how inexpensive used tyres are, even with lots of tread left. By the way, your front bumper has fallen off, but I guess you would have noticed by now.

I was thinking about one of your earlier posts today, as I was sitting and comparing the wiring diagram of my Brad 'A' central locking kit with my Brand 'B' remote alarm/immobiliser. I think the instructions of one were translated from Korean by a machine, and the other from Chinese by a faulty machine. O well, after the smoke clears I'm sure it will work.

Yeah, I know the problem. I bought both my central locking kit and my alarm at Jaycar, but the wiring diagrams were a little sketchy about how to connect them up. Basically there is two wires to actuate the lock solenoids and two more on a master solenoid to tell the unit when the solenoid has been moved manually. You'll probably find an extra wire for the earth.

As for the bumper, I was in mid-polish when I took the photo and had just finished scrubbing under that front lip for about 40 minutes with a toothbrush! The whole nose section took me most of yesterday... 🙁 I think it would be quicker to just rub it back and paint it!!

Hi Col,

Good to see the Kombi with all the wheels on, Same tyres as on front of Desert Splitty at the moment, but have tried 205R16 Dueller HTs and they fit without touching.

Cheers, Ian.

Yeah Ian, I did consider that size after your U2U, but I'm trying to increase the contact patch for sand.... I'm actually aiming for a 235 width, in whatever profile will fit. I know this will have to be a tyre of smaller O.D.'s that the 205R16, but I'm not concerned about gaining height. In fact, I'd like to keep the tyres at exactly the same O.D. as the 215/70-16s I've just got, because today's little jaunt to Tarnagulla and back with the GPS installed has shown that these almost perfectly calibrate my speedo correctly - consevatively, +/- 2% 😀

I've only just got home and haven't looked into it yet, but I'll be looking at 235/65-16s which will probably put me into a car tyre, but that's ok, because it will improve the handling (I hope).

On the topic of handling, it scares me a bit. My bus is noticably looser on the road, very twitchy in the wind. :o I'm going to lash out for a front-end alignment ASAP and see where to go from there. New shockers are definitely on the list, but a long way down it at the moment, unfortunately.

I've also noticed that my pads are down, but because of the extra tyre diameter, I want to make sure the brakes are top-rate, so hopefully they'll get a good going over shortly. If I ever get rich, I'd like some rear discs to fill those rear 16's and some vented discs for the front, but I'd have to keep exactly the right offset as these wheels, maybe +1/4" at most. Any ideas?

I've been flat out lately, but I hope to see some updates when I next get the chance to read your Desert Splitty thread. 🙂

KruizinKombi wrote:On the topic of handling, it scares me a bit. My bus is noticably looser on the road, very twitchy in the wind.

Have a play with your tyre pressures. I'm running 40 psi in the front and 45 psi in the rear in LT tyres, and a lot of the usual twitchiness went away when I upped the pressures to these levels. Might be a bit too much for car-type tyres, but lots of the other variety thrive on higher pressures, and keep their walls nice and firm.

hth

Yeah Peter, I found the same thing. Initially when I only had the big rear tyres on with my 205/60-14s on the front, it was REALLY scary, even more so when towing, so I upped the pressure in the rears to 60psi (the tyre place had pumped them to 40psi, and I could see major movement in the sidewalls just with the kids moving in the back seat :o) and the handling improved noticably. At that stage the handling was still dodgy because the back end was up in the air and the nose was low.

Now the front is at what I consider to be an ideal height; I haven't measured the rake yet, but the front end is marginally lower than the front, if at all. The max. pressure for the fronts is 44psi, and I've got them inflated to 40psi, and the max. press. for the rears is 80psi but I've still got them at 60psi. I think 60psi is more than enough for something as light as the kombi. If I pump them any higher, I reckon I'd only be running on the centre 2" of the tread when the tyres balloon out, which isn't desirable. At 60psi the tyres are running on nearly the full width of the tread, so I shouldn't have trouble (as I have previously) with the edges of the tread going bald and leaving me with 60% tread along the centre.

I think I've gained as much benefit as is practical from playing with tyre pressures, and the rake is right, so I shouldn't be suffering handling problems caused by non-stock castor as I had with mis-matched wheels. Even though my tyres are smaller on the front, my kombi had begun to sag in the rear a little (possibly due to some of the loads I've carried in it!!) so it sits close to perfectly now.

I didn't do a wheel alignment when I put the tyres on, purely because of the time factor on the day. I'm hoping that there is improvement to be made here, and I know I definitely need new shockers. I'll get the alignment done shortly while I'm deciding what to do about the shocks. I'm considering using coil-overs on the front, set at the same height as now, so that I get a higher spring rate on compression, which may help handling (I hope) in the corners. In any case, new shockers will help as the current ones have been on the bus for three years, that I know of!

If I'm still having problems with handling after a wheel alignment and new shocks, I'll be looking more closely at wheel bearings, ball-joints, etc.

I'll keep you posted. 🙂

Hmm.... Had the wheel alignment done today, but it was only 0.2mm out on toe-in, which I consider to be close enough - certainly not bad for a van that hasn't had an alignment in 3 years!!

I did find that my front tyres were not actually inflated to 40psi as intended, closer to 33-34psi which I fixed while at the tyre service. Rears were running 57psi, now set to 60. I don't think the drive home was really long enough to be any true indication, but I think the bus rode a bit better around roundabouts than before - the back didn't feel like it was trying to overtake the front! 😀

you could try firmer shocks for the front. i've got KYB (black, high[?] pressure gas). they lift the car about an inch, improve handling somewhat and completely stop nosedives. the ride is taut, but not kidney jarring. i don't know how they will go with LT's, but i will find out shortly.

[Edited on 21-4-2004 by bus914]

If you do go with a coil over shock, make sure you don't buy any of those imported crap chrome things. They are a bad shock and an even worse spring.

Custom Offroad do the best one I have found and they are forum sponsors to boot. They use a custom made coil and a heavy duty gas shock. Works very well and you know you have a quality product that will last .

Any idea what they're worth Brad?

$260pr for front and $290pr for rear but that is acording to their website so prices may vary.

Andy is correct.

Cool, thanks guys. 🙂

I've actually managed to get the front tyres to scrape, if only marginally, on two occasions now. Both times were entering driveways while turning. It seems that the tread on the shoulders of the tyre are JUST touching the body seam at the rear of the wheelarch.

This could easily be remedied by folding the seam over, but I'm still not prepared (at this stage) to modify the body in any way. As it is, the problem doesn't concern me as it only occurs rarely and does not damage the tyre (that I can see).

Unfortunately, if I wish to fit anything larger than the current front tyres, I'll need to either modify the body, or find wheels of a different offset. The wheels I need will narrow the track, and I'm not sure as yet whether I want to go that way either..... :cry

I've just picked up my kombi again; I've been driving the work van ('01 Mitsubishi Express 🙁) around for the past couple of weeks, because the fuel is free and I can... 🙂

Driving the kombi again was like winning Tattslotto (how would I know?) and I had some time to kill at work today, so I thought I'd take some 'wank' shots just to satisfy my own curiosity about tyre clearances....

and another....

I think I need to finish my cut'n'polish....

and another....

and another...

and another...

My last 'pose'...

This one was actually a bit scary - I went a bit quick getting the kombi up there and it rocked a bit as I hit the brakes... I thought it was going to overbalance for a few seconds!!! :o

yet another....

and still another....

Back on level ground again...

I actually don't like seeing pics of 'offroad' vehicles posing on little mounds like that, but I wanted to check for tyre clearance problems, and I was bored! The only clearance issue I've found is the front tyre scraping marginally, as mentioned earlier, so I'm pretty happy with that. I now know that even with the front suspension fully loaded up (such as when driving away from that last pose) the scraping is tolerable and won't damage either the tyre or the vehicle. There is still enough room at the top of the tyres so as not to scrape, although I guess I haven't had it sitting on the bumpstops yet - that will have to wait for my next load of firewood!!!

All in all, I'm really happy with these tyres and wheels: For my purposes, they've made the kombi into a better vehicle for both sand (I'll test the theory in Jan '05) and highway. I haven't really done any hardcore bush testing yet (nor do I plan to) but the mild test drives I've done indicate that these tyres are suitable for my needs. Not only that, for $500 these wheels and tyres make the bus a lot more individual - so much so that even non-VW-lovers notice and comment!!! :thumb:thumb:thumb

Lookin good Kol!!!😎

So were ypu using a remote control on the kombi to get all those action pics without a driver? 😀

Amazing what you did with a pile of wood shavings!!!😎

No Jen, I just parked it there....

Quick Update: The front tyres scrape quite often, although marginally so. It seems I can get the suspension to compress enough to cause contact even pulling up to do a U-turn!! Although it happens almost daily, I can't see any evidence of damage to either the tyres or the bodywork. Interestingly, it only ever seems to rub on the RHS...

My revs are sitting somewhere just under 3000 rpm at 100 kmh, certainly above 2950 rpm. While this ratio is real nice at highway speeds, the kombi really doesn't like to pull up hills without changing down, but it is running like a dog at the moment. I think I need to get those carbies rebuilt, recheck the springs for the centrifugal advance, and do a damn good service...

nice story, very interesting

How about some details of the wheel mods? How does one change the pitch circle and the shape of the hole to suit vw studs without causing cracking around the holes? I have MB 15x6.5in rims and had to change my front tyres (ruined 2 new tyres) because of rubbing on lock when loaded caused a 3 to 4 mm groove in the sidewall. static clearance was only 1 to 2mm and it was rubbing on the top wishbone . (T3)
thanx
tonyg

Tony,

I didn't do the mods myself, I bought the wheels from Ian, aka Desert Splitty, who has now moved to WA.

Ian used his own jig to redrill the taper that the wheel nuts locate in, effectively changing the PCD from 114.3mm (Falcon) to 112mm (Kombi). It wasn't necessary to redrill the actual stud holes themselves, as they elongated when the taper was machined. The fact that they are now oval does not matter, as the nuts locate on the taper. The studs themselves do not locate the wheels. [Edit: This info is incorrect, see Ian's post next page]

I'm unsure whether Ian is still in a position to offer these wheels for sale, but you can contact him yourself through this forum. 🙂 [Edit: He's not. Again, See his post next page]

As for the rubbing, although I hear the tyre rub, I haven't found any evidence of damage to the tyres yet...

[Edited on 12-7-2004 by KruizinKombi]

I would make sure it is myself.😠

No, but people are getting away with things much more stupid than this. The wheels themselves are actually legal, but the O.D. of the tyres are WAY outside the maximum allowable increase.

To get this legal I would have to upgrade the brakes to compensate for the increase in tyre diameter. I'm quite certain that all other aspects of the modification would be allowable. 🙂

Try Bajawes. He knows alot about this sort of thing and can advise you properly.

Cos, the thing is, if you have any kind of accident it's going to be pretty obvious to the insurance company as soon as they take one of your wheels off. That will make your insurance voided and you could be screwed financially and legally.

I know it's frustrating, but in the interest of the safety of yourself and others, please do it correctly. You wouldnt want to risk hurting your family or friends.

I have been building a buggy for the last 3 years so I know your pain, but it is worth it. Sorry to be pain but I feel obliged to warn you. 🙁

hey kol
mate i will be sittin next to u at valla in my kombi people wont know the differance except for the stickers u have all over ya windows!!!!
i got same wheels just gotta grab some tyres one day!! am aiming for about the same RPM as u at 100 km/h
cheers
rhys

Cool Rhys, but don't try fitting tyres this size with a 2 litre gearbox, or your kombi won't pull the skin off a rice pudding.... 1800 gearbox is ok as long as the motor is going strong. :thumb

G'day Folks,
Need to clarify a couple of things here:

Kol, the stud holes are not oval, but perfectly round, there is slightly more contact area on the inner edge of each hole due to the center of the holes being shifted 1.15mm towards the center of the wheel, in the case where the rims are machined to suit Chrome tapered 60 degree mag wheel nuts, the outside edge of the hole is the original Falcon, the original Ford hole measures 19mm accross the top and the new hole is 21.3mm and the contact point is approx 2/3rds the way up the taper on the nut.

In the case with the sets of wheels that both Kol and Rhys have, they opted to use standard Kombi nuts which have a 45 degree taper and the hole is 24mm across the top as per standard Kombi wheels so their rims have been machined to suit and the contact area, nut to hole, is exactly the same as original.

I spent a couple of months researching all this before I went ahead with it and was told by an engineer who designs and makes wheels for all sorts of applications that what I was going to do would not change the integrity of the wheel in any way.

I'm sorry that I'm no longer able to supply these wheels now due to my new location in Outback WA.

If anyone would like to discuss this on the phone (#08 9168 8083) you are most welcome.

Tonyg, sounds like you have the wrong Merc rims if they are touching on a T3, the ones to use have a rear offset (bolt face to outside edge of rim on inside of wheel) of 137mm.

Cheers,Ian.

[Edited on 10-7-2004 by Desert Bug]

I hope that my previous post has clarified the few points of concern some folk were raising in regards to the safety of these rims, as for the size (16x6.5) they are legal, being 1" wider than standard and 1" taller.

I'm now running these on the Desert Slitty and my 6x4 trailer (with Kombi suspension) with 205/80x16 Desert Dueller ATs on the front of Splitty (and trailer) and 225/75x16 Cooper MTs on the back. This combination is working very well.

The biggest tyre I've had on the back of the Splitty on these rims are 255/70x16 Dueller HTs with enough clearance and no rubbing.

Cheers, Ian.

Hi have you a photo of the under side of the trailer ? Ta seagull

Seagull, I will post some pics in a new thread on Gen Chit Chat so I'm not hijacking Kols thread.
Ian.

hey
i have some tyres lined up just some 215/70R16 highway terrain tyres to see how this all works @ $40 its no real lose if i turn away!!!
so colin u dont recommend using a 2L box??? what do u reacon ian??? i remember briefly on the phone you saying a 2L box is good???
anyway ill check what box i have in the kombi and we will see what happens!!
cheers
rhys

Rhys, a 2lt box is probably fine with smaller tyres, but I doubt my kombi would get anywhere if I put a 2lt box in with the tyres I'm running now. I'd never get out of third gear...

G'day Rhys and Kol,

Rhys, these tyres would work well with 2lt box with 2lt motor, 1800 box with 1800 motor, 1600 box with 1600 motor. Another good option is 235/60 Dueller HTs, they are about 10mm smaller dia than 215/70 Dueller HTs, both sizes are fairly common now as standard equip on a lot of the smaller crossover all wheel drives. I test ran both on the front of the Desert Splitty but ultimately went for 205/80 Dueller ATs which only touch on full travel bumps out in the desert. I looking into raising the suspension 75-100mm to give the Desert Splitty a more serious offroad look so rubbing wont be a problem then.

Cheers, Ian.

hey guys
well on saturday i got the tyres they had 4 215/70 HT's dunlop grandtrek tyres with about 40-50 % tread i got them all fitted up and blanced for $125 so the kombi is know a much better ride im unsure what speed im doing buyt at a rough guess im getting about 3150Rpm at 100 k's!!
i havent noticed much differance in accelerating and am using less fuel know!!

[Edited on 21-7-2004 by kombi_kid]

wheel

Looking good Rhys!! nice straight Bay.
Cheers, Ian.

sorry for hijacking this colin but what PSI should i set the tyres at you reacon??? they put them at 34PSI at the tyre joint but i noticed it jumpin around at the back was thinkin maybe 24 for the back 22 for the front or vice versa?
cheers
rhys

[Edited on 21-7-2004 by kombi_kid]

Rhys, I would try around 28-30 at back, and 24-26 at front then roadtest and adjust pressure up and down a little and roadtest on the same section of road till you're happy with it, remember to increase the pressure if you are carrying a full load. You should always have more pressure at the back, likewise in a Beetle.
Cheers, Ian.

My rears are good for 80 psi, so I set them to 60 after finding that 30, 40 or 50 just allowed the thing to wander all over the place in corners. I can't remember my fronts, but from memory they are within 10psi of maximum.