I dont know if this has been raised on this forum before, but I have heard a little about people using the Renault gearboxes for a 5 spd conversion in VWs. I have actually seen them in rear engined off road buggies, so they can obviously have the ring and pinion flipped.
Does anyone know which gearbox in particular this can be done with ? Have any contacts who know how to do it ? Read or have any articles on it ? Heard any rumours ?
I found out last night that my plan to use a subaru box wont work, as the centerlines of the pinoin shaft and the diff carrier are about 50mm out. Ie, if you flip the diff, the pinion will no longer mesh with the ring gear. If you knew someone who could machine you a new pinion shaft, this wouldnt be a problem though......... does anyone here know Mr Hollinger, Albins or any other notable gear cutters ?
Thanks in advance.:bounce:o:bounce:o:bounce
OvalGlen ·
are you still keeping your options for an older Porsche box open , or is it just too expensive ? ?
Doug Sweetman ·
I've had a quick look into the 901 and 915 boxes - from what I've been able to find they are both a relatively straightforward swap and give a good result, but both boxes are at least $2500 +, and I dont know how much for parts......
so yeah, I've looked into them but I dont have the $$ for them. Plus I like to be a bit different 🙂
I could just turn the subaru tranny upside down, and dry sump it...... :bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce
KruizinKombi ·
Bill Sherman, Queensland, offers Renault conversions I believe. Somebody posted his number last time the topic came up, anybody got it?
Doug Sweetman ·
AHA !!! I knew someone would have a lead !!! I think I have his number somewhere...... What was his business called again ? :bounce
Secoh ·
Doug, when you find it, can you let us all know please?? thanks mate! 😀
Doug Sweetman ·
I rang Mr Sherman today, of Volks Conversions fame. Had a very interesting chat with him. To cut a long story short, I found out the following.
1. Yes, he can do Renault 5 speed conversion to a VW. Most commonly a off road buggy, but occasionally a kombi (sue to their extra weight). He has never seen one done into a beetle.
2. The renault box in question is the renault 20 or 30 box. It came in 4 and 5 speed, usually with a v6 behind it. They are heavier and much stronger than VW boxes. 4 planetary gears as standard.
3. The diff can be flipped in these boxes with NO MODIFICATION or clearancing needed. The gearboxes were actually designed so as they can be used front or rear wheel drive, simply by flipping the diff.
4. kombi bellhousing can be adapted to fit the Renault box.
5. However, a fully custom shift linkage will be needed (shift rod exits the gearbox in a different location, not sure exactly where) as will custom gearbox mounts. But I already knew this 🙂
He did also let me know that he carries a 5 speed conversion kit for VW IRS boxes. It is made by an american company called Tru Shift (although they may have changed their name by now) and is about $1200 or therabouts. It is not the Gene berg kit. Mounts remain the same (unsure of shift linkages). Can be used with stock gears.
Any one interested in getting a Renault box, apparently a fellow in Brisbane called Geoff Gillespie is the man to talk to. Call Bill Sherman at Volks conversions for his details.
There is also apparently a Renault gearbox out of one of their trucks that can be made to suit also.... capable of 1000hp :bounce
So, to summarise, it can be done, but almost everything is needed to be fabricated, and you need to use a kombi bellhousing.
Buggy Boyz ·
John Aldre has a company called Volks Engineering on teh south side of Brissy. He has installed Renault boxes in Kombis and maybe a good person to talk to .
Sorry no numbers..
Doug Sweetman ·
thanks brad will give him a call...
Baja Wes ·
The guys name is John Sherman not Bill.
11CAB ·
Wes , you beat me to it. Yes it is John Sherman at Volks Conversions at Labrador on the Gold Coast.
Doug Sweetman wrote:I have actually seen them in rear engined off road buggies, so they can obviously have the ring and pinion flipped.
Does anyone know which gearbox in particular this can be done with ? Have any contacts who know how to do it ? Read or have any articles on it ? Heard any rumours ?
Doug,
its a UN5 Renault gearbox
kombi_kid ·
i have photos here of the shifter setup with these gearbox's this ones in that extrtememly hacked up red/white splitty i will dig them up for you all!!
cheers
rhys
Secoh ·
Do a search as this has been covered here before.
Renault 20 5sp is a 369 box, and renault 30 is a UN1 box. UN5 is from the renault and apparently merc vans. UN5 has crappy ratios unless you are offroading (crownwheel and pinion is something crazy like 5:1) whereas UN1 and 359 has ratios better suited to road and race.
the renault 5sp boxes are very long and will NOT fit in a beetle unless you chop the floor and pan. I have a 359 R20 box sitting on the floor here at the moment.
[Edited on 9-8-2004 by Secoh]
seagull ·
To let you know the box renault , is the same lenth as a auto bus box 600mm .
The R30 box is the better of them all , but hard to find and can cost heaps .
The off road guys over here purchased a heap but found them not to be very strong most were sold or blown up and whent to the tip .
Max fitted his $3000.00 box to his trike as not to wast it , so you might see this gold machine in QLD now as it was sold to there .
Secoh ·
if you know all this, why did you bump a 2 year old post??? :jesus :sandrine
KruizinKombi ·
Secoh, I was looking for it....
Great site Steve, thanks. 🙂
I'd love to see the pics Rhys, if you can find them....
The site Steve posted doesn't list a 359, only (6) 369 models and (7) UN1 models.
"The R30 box is the better of them all , but hard to find and can cost heaps .
The off road guys over here purchased a heap but found them not to be very strong most were sold or blown up and whent to the tip ." <<< Then why are they the 'better' ones?
The site didn't list any info for the UN5 box... does anybody know a good link for info on these?
Does anybody know if the diff ratios are interchangable between various boxes?
Thanks for all the input guys. I'll take the figures from the site Steve posted and work out how the ratios listed there suit my intended application before ringing John Sherman or John Alder to work out some prices.... 🙂
KruizinKombi ·
Bummer... unfortunately the ratios for most of the Renault gearboxes are considerably taller than the 002 kombi box, so I'm not going to get a lower 1st for my kombi by going that way.... 🙁
I'll keep looking for info on the 5:1 final drive version....
kombi_kid ·
got em kol
kombi_kid ·
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kombi_kid ·
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kombi_kid ·
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kombi_kid ·
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kombi_kid ·
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Secoh ·
KruizinKombi wrote:The site Steve posted doesn't list a 359, only (6) 369 models and (7) UN1 models.
my apologies I checked the box last nte and it is a 369 box, I don't know where I got the 5 from LOL
KruizinKombi ·
Thanks heaps Rhys. I'm not sure I like the look of that shifter linkage, but I love the crossmember under the box. What happened with the torsion housing? Has it been modified at all to fit the box?
No worries Secoh, easy mistake. 🙂
I'm still stuck on the gear ratio issue. For a kombi running normal sized wheels, the ratios I've found would be suitable, but not with my tyres. At least, not with a stock motor. A V8 would pull those ratios easily, but my 1800 won't. The UN5, if it has the mentioned 26:1 low ratio would be ideal, although it's 5:1 top ratio is lower than I want ideally. I've emailed a guy in Canada who is re-engineering an 'Africar' with the UN5 box in the hope that he will be able to give me details of the ratios available, and I've also emailed Albins Gears to discuss possible options.
The whole conversion is looking rather pricey and out of my range at the moment, but if I can find a box with the ratios I want, I will hopefully be able to get the job done sometime next year, which gives me plenty of time for further research. 🙂
I'll keep you posted. 🙂
Secoh ·
I spoke to Albins once before and he said the ratios for the renault box were very expensive compared to kombi ratios.
The problems you are encountering are all the same ones I had and why I ended up deciding to use a kombi box in my race car project.
ASV spares carries some of these boxes but are difficult to deal with.
The audi 80, 90 or 100 box is also worth looking at, but it does not have a removable bellhousing so an adaptor plate will have to be used.
kombi_kid ·
all very interesting guys!!! i like reading about this its great!!! that shifter setup did look abit "hello hows it going?" but it works so i spose its alright!! look simple enough to make up without to much hassels!!
cheers
rhys
KruizinKombi ·
I just got an email from Albins with the following details:
"Five speed Ratios we have for Renault are.
1st/2nd sets 3.0 X 2.0 or 3.36 X 2.38
3rd and 4th set 1.76, 1.68, 1.53, 1.45, 1.39, 1.33
5th sets 1.25, 1.18, 0.60
Price is 1st/2nd set $1390
3rd $440
4th $440
5th $540
Plus freight and GST.
Here is the name and number of a guy who builds a lot of Renault transmissions using our gears, he might be able to help you out as he know a lot more about what's available than I do.
His details are: James Madden 08 8524 3041 or 0419 824 571"
As Secoh found, the cost of this conversion is beginning to look really scarey... I'll continue to research it, as I feel that if I can find something that will do exactly what I'm looking for, then the price is worth it. It is after all, a one-off cost. I will still be looking at other options, such as the Audi boxes that Secoh suggested.
Keep the info coming guys, all help is appreciated. 🙂
1303Steve ·
Hi
I had a dream, well a thought anyway. What about fitting an electric over drive from a pommy car on the input shaft, would turn a 4 speed into an 8 speed? How big are they? I have no idea.
1302Steve
KruizinKombi ·
The one's I've seen are 8" long, plus adapter....
kombi_kid ·
when u look at the cost of getting a 4 speed 091 gearbox and comparing it to what this renault conversion would cost it is pretty similar and i know i would prefer renault gearbox that can handle 300-400 hp or so(???) then an 091 that can only take 200 or so HP??
plus ya get the 5th gear!
cheers
rhys
KruizinKombi ·
Well for me the issue isn't so much about strength as it is about gearing. I'm just trying to get a lower first without changing my top ratio or spreading the ratios any more than the 1800 I'm using now. While not many people will be in the same situation I'm in (trying to pull 235/85-16 rear tyres with a stock 1800), I guess somebody on this forum may find the info useful somewhere down the track.
Rhys, I disagree about the price being similar; a 2lt 091 can be picked up for $500, a Renault conversion is going to cost more than double that. To get the ratios I'm after, I may be up for $2000-$3000 or more!!!
Jeza ·
1302Steve wrote:Hi
I had a dream, well a thought anyway. What about fitting an electric over drive from a pommy car on the input shaft, would turn a 4 speed into an 8 speed? How big are they? I have no idea.
1302Steve
Steve
Thats a pretty cool idea! I can't add any more info but I did have a Mitsi Tredia with the super shift years ago and that had a "power / economy" lever. Which effectively gave it 8 forward gears - Twas very cool, pity the rest of the car was not!!