New engine , where do i start ?

He's my details......

Next year i want to do some drags again and my tidy 67 is slowly going towards the old Skool Cal i want. The rest of the car is planned for i.e interior etc etc but i want a new motor to replace the 6v 1300.

I would prefer to keep my original motor and simply build another up . I can do basic stuff but i'm no engine builder so i need soem adivise on engine's and engine builders in Sydney!

In keeping with the old skool / bracket racer idea the motor i'm after is a well built strong 1776 that will be running on 48ida's. Fuel economy is no concern , it is not used alot in traffic and only for cruises and shows etc.

I'd rather pay the money and do it well as i want the motor to last a while whilst getting some abuse every now and then. This is where the questions start.

What case to use? What mods to case for oil coolers / strenth etc?What crank? What heads and what size?,What
Cam?Etc Etc Etc

Finally what box mods would be best to do to match the engine?

I haven't got money to throw away and realise that the skies the limit when it comes to racing. Just want to have some fun with out too much breaking ! I'm after a car that's abit of a sleeper , happily run out on cruises and will charge hard on the strip.

Where do i start?

Dan

🙂

Danny

Start by reading and form an opinion of your own.

The reason i say this is there is WAY to many opinions out there and if you keep asking questions you will keep getting different answers.
You will get
type 4 it
turbo it
1916 it
stroke it

Read the articles here
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm

and here (have to go to tech articles)
http://cal-look.com/index2.html

then read all the posts relating to hi po building at
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/

There use to be a cook book site here
http://www.geocities.com/enginecookbook/menu.htm
but it seems to be down. I may have a printed copy some where

"What case to use? What mods to case for oil coolers / strenth etc?What crank? What heads and what size?,What
Cam?Etc Etc Etc "

At best you will get the answer " depends - its all in the combo "
Originally i thought that answer was a crook of shit. But after sereral years of hang with dudes and building a motor (several times) i know know what they mean.

Personally i would suggest

1) Just building one. It WONT be the final one so just build one. That way you will know what to change NEXt time and what should happen when you do , and then build it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and ......

2) Hand $5 to 10 grand to some one and get them to do it.

better still - buy that stroker Dave Becker was selling a few months ago for $6k. No way will you do better than that and it is bolt in ready to go.

TTFN

For an excellent opinion.. ring Peter Richards...
a very knowledgeable fellow..
and builts great engines..
0265-650067

Lee

my two cents get the new alluminium case built for performance and a good article on then in the new vw mag😎

just phone Stan Pobjoy or Peter Richards and save yourself the headaches.

[Edited on 20-5-2004 by Craig Torrens]

68AutoBug wrote:For an excellent opinion.. ring Peter Richards...
a very knowledgeable fellow..
and builts great engines..
0265-650067

Lee

Craig Torrens wrote:just phone Stan Pobjoy or Peter Richards and save yourself the headaches

What they said

just ring stan pobjoy job done ____BUT____ a word of warning .. make absolutly certain you have a very comfortable chair and a loudspeaker phone that way you can sit back and enjoy the conversation***************

just ring stan pobjoy job done ____BUT____ a word of warning .. make absolutly certain you have a very comfortable chair and a loudspeaker phone that way you can sit back and enjoy the conversation***************

just ring stan pobjoy job done ____BUT____ a word of warning .. make absolutly certain you have a very comfortable chair and a loudspeaker phone that way you can sit back and enjoy the conversation***************

Oops

should have warned ya

😉

Did ya learn heaps though??

Conversation? I thought both people have to talk for it to be a conversation. Still a very nice bloke, and very helpful.

HEHEHEHE ......................what he said ^

just had my new buggy motor (complete) delivered from Coffs(stans)......$62 delivered to my door at Hornsby!!!

So don't let the distance be a negative factor.

Mmmmmm looks like i'll be making some calls then and get an idea on costs for a nice strong turn key motor. Oh well , i can see where my tax return going!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the advise


Dan🙂

toplessbug wrote:just ring stan pobjoy job done ____BUT____ a word of warning .. make absolutly certain you have a very comfortable chair and a loudspeaker phone that way you can sit back and enjoy the conversation***************

lol i rang stain once about vw's 2 and a bit hours and $27
on my phone bill later and i got off 😀
say you have to go and get him to ring you back lol

i bought a pobjoy and then a fax machine

i bought a pobjoy and then a fax machine

i bought a pobjoy and then a fax machine

i bought a pobjoy and then a fax machine

Get a personally built Pobjoy 1916. Hands down they're the best of the best, however you cut it. There's more than one kind of Pobjoy 1916, too.

Go the stroker Dave was selling it looked the goods and Daves times speak for themselves, so we all know it has been assembled well !!! here is the thread not sure if its been sold though
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=21486#pid167161

Okay this is current thinking on a new motor. I have been listening to alot of people and reading up etc and came to this conclusion.
Bearing in mind i'm buying all new parts , i want it to last , run well etc it's money i only want to spend once. Now the cost of buying a new decent case is not alot more if it's an alloy one , bored and clearanced.
A new stoker crank is not alot more than a standard c/w crank
Big valve heads aren't that much more.


So am i not better just saving abit longer and getting something that will have a few more cc's? Thinking about a 2110 , 044 heads etc

I want to start collecting bits soon and get things rolling


Thoughts

Dan 🙂

yep IMO you would be much better of with the stroker, 78 is a good size, 90.5 bore if you want good result forget the 1916/ 94's, 82 is I think too long........

PS I rang Peter Richards and his price was double what my 1.6 new engine ended up costing ????? is he 4 real ?

[Edited on 6-6-2004 by jakjones]

Look i know this going to be expensive . I only want to do this once and buy the best i can without going stupid. I thinking a nicely built stroker would be alot of fun. Thinking that the 1776 i originally wanted may be abit short of what i'm aiming at. I have to plan this and also start collecting parts. Got an idea of what i'd like

Dan🙂

jakjones wrote:PS I rang Peter Richards and his price was double what my 1.6 new engine ended up costing ????? is he 4 real ?

[Edited on 6-6-2004 by jakjones]

OK Jak I'll bite.

1. who did your 1.6?

2. what warranty did ya get?

3. were you getting a quote for the same thing (comparing apples with apples)?


I guess until we hear Pete's side of the story we can't pass judgement!

1 I assembled it my self

2 what warranty would he give ?

3 yes

back on topic,

carefull which crank brand u decide to buy.

gene berg forged is tryed and tested

[Edited on 6-6-2004 by jakjones]

We have over 2000 members on this forum im thinking 5-10% could afford a berg crank,about $2250 before its in your swetty hands.🙂

CB performance make good parts - I couldnt afford a berg crank - so I bought a CB one, and CB race rods. I did use berg barrells and pistons, only because I got them cheap locally.

Mag cases are well proven - guys make 450 HP out of them and they live.

What ever you do dont skimp on heads, they are where its at as far as HP goes. Driveability is about heads and the overall combo. Get the heads ported for your application - an off the shelf CNC job seems like a good idea (cheap), but you may end up dissapointed.

Heres an example - you may have seen the discussions around the new CNC wedgeport ?? 200 HP out of the box - flow numbers are only part of the picture - port speed is very important - a small port with high flow Nos is what you want. The wedgeport head has 81ccs in it - a hand ported head with the same flow nos came to 76ccs - and it beats it in the mid range lift Nos which are more important.

Regarding stroker cranks, use forged such as Scat, DMS, Bugpack, there are many others.

If you can't build it yourself make sure you get it professionally done. That'll ensure you get it done once and once only. There have been some very unhappy 'customers' over the years that paid top $ and never got what they paid for. Make sure you don't become another victim!

I posted a similar thread on a US site and everyone's saying 2276! Think i have found something for a benchmark.

TECH SHEET :

- 2110cc 82 mm x 90.5 mm
- 5.4" CARRILLO RODS
- FK-10 CAMSHAFT
- VW 040 HEADS, 40 x 37.5
- 45 Dells or 48 IDA WEBERS , HOLLEY FUEL PUMP
- BOSCH 009 DISTRIBUTOR ; MSD IGNITION BOX ; MSD COIL
- PHOENIX 1 7/8" HEADER ; MAGNAFLOW MUFFLER

This the spec of one of my favouraite cars , it runs hard , etc and is still useable on the street. Thoughts?

Dan 🙂

Dan, I went to the States In Nov/Dec 2003 before I brought my motor. When I was there I spoke to many racers (off road) in regards to VW engines as there still one of the most popular motor used. Two engine builders people referred to as the best were Adam Wik and FAT performance. The engine size we spoke about most was 2180 (82c & 92b). Although the motors are reliable only one had an engine that put out over 100hp. When you look at engines for racing, horsepower goes hand in hand with reliability. So have a look at what goes on in racing here in Australia, (as in hill climb and so on) and what horsepower we have before you buy your motor from the States. A Pobjoy 1916 is not so expensive when you look at one of these engines, plus what support will you get from someone in the U.S. if things go bad.

Moose
😎

MY engine owes me about 25K and I'm pulling it down again for more up grades.

Good Luck and if you want more confusion than this join a VW club

Yeah, what Moose said.

Also go back over the results of drag results if that's what you're after (a drag car). Both here and the US.

Normally aspirated or turbo (NA = Craig Torrens, Craig Paton just to name 2).

Do your research and know why you make the choices you do.

Good luck

Danny,

A few things with that spec sheet..

Carillo rods $$$$$$$$$$$

Fk10 cam ...I have one for sale brand new because i decided it too big for my 2332 street motor. Still driveable but at high revvs.

I also think it is a major over kill with the 1 7/8 exhaust...2110 with not real big valves.and the fk10. Would make heaps more torque with a 1 5/8 header.

From what the boys have said, if you do not want to stroke it, then call Stan.

If you do want the stroker option, then get the parts from overseas and get someone local to assemble it. I have recently bought all my stuff from US and am still getting bits and pieces all the time. Drop me a u2u or call me and I will tell you where I got all my stuff...(Scat, berg, cb, action imports, Kustom 1 etc...)

Be patient, and hunt around as there are lots of traps and unfortunately I fell in a few on this little excursion.

Matt
0416 115 993

LOWBUG wrote:MY engine owes me about 25K and I'm pulling it down again for more up grades.

Good Luck and if you want more confusion than this join a VW club

So what are the specs and who built it for you. ?
what are the upgrades.

If you go to an 82mm stroke, go 94s - there is no replacement for displacement - Its easier to make big HP with more CCs and keep it (relatively) reliable.

I wouldnt buy carrillo rods unless you are intending to make some serious HP. There are others that will work just as well for less than half the $$$

I have a friend in Canada that has a 68 beetle, Berg 1800 (74 x 88), FK8, IDAs, 40 x 37.5 Berg heads, 4.125 R and P and short gears (1.21 4th I think). He runs high 13s NA and mid 12s with a 70 shot of NOS. This engine was built in the 80s.
My 2110 has an 86B, 82 x 90.5, CNC 044s 42 x 37.5, 48 DRLAs, 3.88 R and P stock gears. I have only run in the rain 15.5, I guess in the dry it would run high 13s with some seat time and tuning. With the gearing I only use 3 gears in the 1/4 - and it sits at 3000 rpm at 65 mph.

Just for the record - 12s are fairly rarified airs - its something to work towards, a car that runs 13 - 14 seconds is fast enough to get you into a whole lotta trouble, there wont be much on the road that will keep up in the 0 - 60 mph range...

What about V force ?? They are local to you...

US - I would look at VW paradise, Mark Herbert, Geoff Hart, Heads Up, Marty Staggs - they know how to make Horsepower. Ive had dealings with Mark - he is a very straight up guy, and he made 2oo hp with Kadrons !!!
[Edited on 8-6-2004 by AdrianH]

[Edited on 8-6-2004 by AdrianH]

as the saying goes:

if you're going to stroke it, stroke it!

Adrian,

How does the 86b go, thats what I replaced my fk10 with, motor not yet finished.
I got told by a friend of mine who is from cal-look.com
club in the states, that its one of the best "street" cams on the market. Thats whyI bought it off Craig Paton.


Matt

[Edited on 9-6-2004 by boof2332]

I build my own engines, engine size is 2007 that comprises of 78MM berg crank 90.5mm pistons street eliminator heads k8 spec cam made here in australia scat long rods big valves and lots of little tricks as well as spending money on things like proper balancing clearancing doing it right, not cutting any corners.

The next upgrade which has also comenced is turbo.

For other details u2u me

Cheers

86b is basically the same as a K8. Goes good, idles at 800 rpm, pulls well of idle and kicks arse from 3500 - 7000 rpm. Compression is at 9:1 at the moment.