Sponsorship of the Forum, have your say !

Well people this is your chance to have input into the way the forum sponsorship is done. Please post input below. If you are real passionate about it give me a ring on 0407330002 and we will have a chat. You have approx 72 hrs to comment. Input will close 8.30 am Saturday 21 Dec 02.

- The Forum will take on sponsors from each area within Australia. These sponsors will be taken on a first in best dressed deal with no two sponsors from the one area being taken on without the consent of the initial sponsor of that area. For example if No1 VW Parts in Brsibane is first in and he does not wish to allow No2 to advertise then that is his decision. If he has no problem with it then it is fine for them to sponsor. This decision can be changed for the positive not the negative.
- Cost of sponsorship
1st Rate sponsorship will cost $500 p/yr and will get a static banner add on one topic and a listing in the sponsors page area linked to a one page website listing full details of their business and products.
2nd rate sposorship will cost $150 p/yr and will gain a rolling banner add, shared with other 2nd rate sponsors on the topic and a listing in the sponsors area.

That is pretty much it for what they get. What do we as members get for making this board what it is today ??

Free 10mb wbepages at a subdomain of Aussieveedubbers.com , so basically I could have a 10mb webspace at www.buggyboyz.aussieveedubbers.com and so on. This will halp members get a web presence for free on a full optioned webspace. In return the forum gets more publicity.

E-mail address - yourname@aussieveedubbers.com, 5mb quota with full pop3 setup or mail forwarding, your choice.


mmm that should do to get us going ..

Oh yeah in answer to the next question someone is sure to ask.... What do I get out of this ?? As some of you may know Aussieveedubbers.com currently sits on my server. I currently foot the bill for this in partnership with Mick Motors. Once we have setup sponsors my plan would be to simply roll the forum over onto a paying package and and treat them as any other customer at a substantially discounted rate, which I will happily post here.

Input please


[Edited on 18-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz]

[Edited on 19-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz]

What if we were also to make it that to be a sponsor you have to offer a discount to Forum members ?? We could issue a membership card and get include it as a clause in the contract.

ie - Sponsors must give forum members parts at trade price upon presentation of a valid membership card ?? If we were to do this then we would need a membership form and a nominal fee from those on teh forum who wished to take up the deal. ie - For $10 you get a forum discount card and a forum sticker ??

OK I'll be first 😀

Firstly Brad thanks for the Forum I think its just TOP:thumb

I'm not sure about letting the first sponsor stop other sponsors - Kinda makes me think of monoplies.

I like the idea of VOLUNTARY membership.
I would join - Not just for the discount but to support the Forum.

I think it is important that it is voluntary.

However when it comes down to it someone has to make the final decision, and I'm pleased with what you've done so far so will offer any support I can.

I know what yo are saying about monopolies... but how else can we do it ?
No business is going to want to sponsor something that every VW business in Australia can be on, or will they ?? I don't know ?? Maybe they will and then we can make more money .
Maybe we shopuld set it up like a huge discount scheme and run it that way so members get maximum benifits. That would be different looking out for the VW community, kinda like the Bendigo Bank theory ...

What say the masses ??

In order to get around the ABN and tax department issues I intend to run the setup through teh Manx Club Books, they will get a small percentage of teh $$ and in return will take care of the Books and make it all legal like from a tax point of view. Why the Manx Club you may ask ? Well cause if someone is going to benifit from my time and effort I want it to be them, simple really..

Brad , just so I,m clear on this.
You propose 1 x No 1 sponsor by region or 1 x No 1 sponsor nationally?
Dean

It is tricky, but if I ran a VW business I wouldn't want to be the only one not listed.

Magazines have ads from lots of similar business.

Anyway - its bedtime

Keep up the good work. 😉

I thought you said we would have no more worries with costs , and is the idea now to make more money , who for ?
Alec

Brad , I am hearing a lot of bad words about the forum from people around the tracks , I think you are going to ruin it if you are not careful . Alec

Don't get me wrong we are not having money problems and if we keep the images under 50kb then I don not think we ever will. The current deal I have is with Mick Motors and it takes care of the costs with the setup we have.
If we are all happy with that and having only one sponsor then that is great.
On the other hand by clossing out other sponsors I beleive that we are limiting our options. I agree that making money is an issue so maybe the best option is to offer sponsorship in return for members discounts, but even this would have over heads that need to be covered ?
I don't have the answers. I set up the Mick Motors deal to get us sorted apart from that I am open to all input, the mebers want input here is their chance ..

Keep em comming :thumb

Probalby not my place to answer - but...

Firstly I own an IT business

The fact that members are getting email addresses and 10meg websites demonstraights to me that members will benefit from this and the fact that Buggy Boyz (Sorry dont know your real name) is willing to publish the discounted rate he is eventually going to charge shows that he has nothing to hide.

Trust me this knid of site would cost you BIG to set up and run. He has taken a gamble and set it up. Unless he is a millionaire then he has to pay his bills too.

My company charges about 30% less than my competitors even so you can start with $65 per hour before we even look at licensing for software, hosting fees, bandwidth fees.

Instead of concentrating on what his "angle is" concentrate on what you get out of this site for FREE.

Sorry to rant - Its late and I get mad when people dont appreciate whats done for them

the samba.com has lots of adverts
I thought we also made money by selling stickers and soon caps & tees etc.
we must try not to be exclusive
Alec

kombisaint wrote:Brad , I am hearing a lot of bad words about the forum from people around the tracks , I think you are going to ruin it if you are not careful . Alec

I am going to ruin it ??? What the &^%$ drugs are you on ? I have done nothing but put endless hours into setting it up and keeping it running ( along wih several others ) I would love to hear some justification behind your comment. From where I sit at the moment I can understand why so many just sit back and surf the posts, ask the odd question and leave it at that.
If you call deleting all images over 50kb, ruining the place then, fine I am stuffing it. I should just let the bandwidth tip over 10GB again and have the sight closed down that way no one would benifit from the hard work the members have put into making this place great.
If you take offense to my tone, then for that I appoligize it just annoyes me some what when people cast comments like that. I AM NOT THE FORUM.. the members are the FORUM. If I could run the tech side of it without setting the two rules I have, being :
Rule 1 - No pornography full stop
Rule 2 - images under 50kb
Then I would, if you want to give it a crack you are more than welcome to it .



[Edited on 18-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz]

Brad , I don't take drugs unless perscribed , do you want to hear of bad comments towards the forum or not , Ihave not mentioned deleting pics ,
People say you fly off the handle .
you say" the members are the forum"then lets have lots of happy members.Alec

Personally, I have no use for a 10M space on your server (I have 170M free on my main site - I haven't cleaned up lately.) I can understand your wanting to profit from this, Brad - and if it will help to keep the forum alive, I'm all for it. But, unless you have some kind of a problem with MickMotors, I think you should be honest about your motivation.

kombisaint wrote:Brad , I don't take drugs unless perscribed , do you want to hear of bad comments towards the forum or not , Ihave not mentioned deleting pics ,
People say you fly off the handle .
you say" the members are the forum"then lets have lots of happy members.Alec

I would love to hear bad comments towards to forum, so what are they ?

If people say that I " fly off the handle " then I would say " Correct " I have been known to throw the occasional spanner and cut the occasional perfectly good baja, just ask Wes 😀 The best part is that in between "Flying of the handle " I managae to get a fair bit of work done whivh I think dilutes my occosional out bursts of profanity and dumby spitting.

I guess you get that on teh big jobs ....
🙁🙁

PS You forgot to mention that I can't type real well either and I have a real problem with "teh" ( the ) punctuation and spelling.

[Edited on 18-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz]

I must have posted the same time as 70AutoStik ...
Anyway I am not going to profit and I have no problem at all with Mick Motors.
Will you guys please please read all the posts.
I have started this thread as others seem keen to sponsor the forum and I am after input. If that input is to leave it with one sponsor and that is all then I am happy with that....
I have offered to put up all fees and balances on the web for all to see how much more can I do ??

My motives are simple - To get input from members ... I don't need money I have a full time job that provides for me just fine.

Who remembers what it was like when the forum closed down???? I had no where to go in My hobby!! No One to talk to.. to comment on.. etc..
One way.. is to Ban all mentions of other VW businesses as Mick IS Paying for a Priviledge.... as the Sponsor... He is NOT getting a Fair Go.... If Dave wants to tell someone about VVDS... He should email the person-s directly.... as I DO.....
Alternatively- What You are suggesting that each state has a sponsor, I suppose would be OK too... as someone from Melbourne or Adelaide will probably prefer to deal with someone closer..... If only for the cheaper postal rates...
Then again... I prefer to Buy Parts from MIck Motors and I live in NSW.....
Seeing there are 500 members.... of VW enthusists - VW owners etc.. You do have some Bargaining Power Brad... as there are NO Aussie VW Magazines.... and lots of New VW owners - who don't know of all the different VW parts Suppliers... I have been going thru old VW mags and emailing people to tell them where their closest- state wise- VW Parts supplier... is located.. and also Praising MIck Motors whom I have been dealing with for over 6 years.... I got a bit carried away there Brad. I don't know if I answered any of Your Questions..

Hmmm...not quite sure how to word this, I know what I mean but hope I don't get misunderstood.

If Mick's pays $500 per year and there are going to be lesser rates, for his money he should probably get some sort of exclusitivity (is this a real word?) or prime real estate on the website although I'm not sure in what form that this would take (only providing a suggestion).

If there are going to be multiple sponsors allowed on the site, charging one lower flat rate for everyone might encourage more sponsors and still bring in enough money to cover costs at the same total revenue that you might get from a single high paying sponsor.

Well that's my two cents worth and hope it makes some sense?

Yes, it makes sense... Mick Has been Paying $500 a year.....for EXCLUSIVE Sponsorship... and Now the option of having other sponsors... NOT Paying $500 a year.... or even JUST other sponsors.... I believe You should talk to MIck.... But YOU do have the final say BRAD... if Mick is selling $500 worth of parts to SA or WA each month.. He won't be happy.... BUT I doubt that this is happening.... You are in the drivers seat Brad... and I'll go with You. I don't See why You shouldn't get reimbursed some what for Your efforts & costs... Lee

Even a LIST of Suppliers for each state with phone & email & webpages etc.
and Mick as the MAJOR SPONSOR.... Its a bit tricky Brad.... I'm sure You don't want to lose MIck as a sponsor.... and I believe He has Paid the $500... If You can manage to have all these other options when Mick's sponsorship comes up again.
So He's NOT disadvantaged....
AS I said before- I live in NSW but I buy most of My parts from MIck in QLD...
So there could be another problem...
Well there is a bit of food for thought Brad. Best of Luck... Lee

you should confront Mick and ask him what he prefers.its all tricky as i dont know much about this sorta stuff but i though i shoulkd have my input on what should be done! I reacon only one flat rate per yer should be applied for other sponsors if that goes ahead otherwise there would be fights over who gets where etc.
if this forum ever dies i think i would probably die aswell its my life know aswell as school!!!!! i am happy to pay $10 a year for membership!😀
cheers
rhys

Hmmmm,
Got a bit heated there for a minute. As a new V dubber, i have loved the wealth of information I get out of this site!!!!!!!

Im all for allowing other sponsors in, but on that same token, would not care if Mick motors fly solo.

Sorry Im too indecisive.........

matt

Manx Club, Money, Books, hey thats me!!!!

My two cents worth,

What does Mick think?
Has he been asked about this yet?

People giving out other business's details at the drop off a hat, kind of like standing in Myer listening to people chat about a product then racing over and mentioning Target sells it. I know before you state the obvious this is a forum where all are free to make their own comments and thats what its all about. But, lets give the sponsor a bit of slack here, I cannot remember ever having Mick come in here and heavy hand anyone or make any sort of demand at all. How good is that!!!!
If we must have a list for those persons who don't know who their local parts guy/gal is then lets get Micks OK, for a seperate section that can only be added to by the admin and those companies pay a fee allbeit small, Mick stays as major sponsor on the top(If he wants to).
Think ahead, will we have people bitching about certain companies(sponsors) that did not do the right thing by them? Will the sponsors then get upset as they are paying to be here????

I think the current system is great, If Mick wants to stay then let him, If he's OK with other sponsor's on here then Ok by me too.
But lets not fight and bitch when someone makes a comment about them down the track.

You can't please all the people all the time!!!!

I think thats 3 cents worth.

Cheers
Darryl
P.s. I was in the Barossa Valley on Tuesday, how dry is it down there!!!!
And 41 degrees where we were!!!!
Glad to get back to Sunny QLD:bounce:repuke

[Edited on 18-12-2002 by daz67]

My opinion - dont care. A forum is a forum and people get crappy and sulk for a while and they come back - or not. Just like drinking in a pub. I personally like the banner idea BUT if PUTOOEY MOTORS wants too advertise on a banner and people dont like em - they are aloud to say so. This forum should be no different to a group of people talking in a street/pub/bbq. Public pressure will sway everyone.
Brad......i think is doing a GREAT job cause this forum is here. I love these things...i have learned a lot in the last couple of years but hated having to chat to americans on STF, SBO and CLF. These sites have the same problems....in fact worse. Just go over to STF and have a read of the cat fight that went on between aircooled.net, moore parts source, L&N Eng, Raby........now THERE is a bunch of girls.
I will say again though.... i think there is a difference between a shop saying i have something when all they sell is new stuff and a shop saying i have something when they are a wrecker as well. Anyway :bounce

Mick Motors - I have spoken to Mick and will state here for the record he is here for teh long run and we will not loose him as a sponsor, that I will make sure of. He has been with us since the start and is happy to support the VW community. He does not come in here and push his products because he does not beleive that would be the right thing to do.

THE FEEL SO FAR - The feeling I am getting is that most people are happy to stay with the current setup. Maybe add a VW Business directory or something simple like that. Maybe it could be like one of those adds where if you mention it you get a discount, ie you say to the shop " I saw you on Aussieveedubbers.com " and they give you a few $$ off ?? I dunno.

[Edited on 18-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz]

Hi Brad,

I am fairly new to the forum, but have enjoyed reading all the comments and enjoy the banter that goes back and forth.
Maybe I have missed the point, but as I have read through the forum the biggest problem that people seem to have is the size of pictures and them dissappearing. I very much understand why you remove them if they are over 50kb as you have restricted space.
Is the point of getting more sponsorship, to get more money so we can go to a bigger server and not have the problem of picture size ?
Do you have other companies that want to sponsor this forum and advertise on it now ? and if so have you asked them what would be acceptable to them ?.... just to get ideas.

Sorry, I have just asked more question !!

Having a dedicated sponsor like Mike Motors is fantastic and so he must be kept happy.
Also, you and your team (if you have one) are doing a great job with the forum. Thanks for the effort as I know it just doesn't happen by magic !!🙂

Mark. :bounce

We are not going to be able to please every body, regardless of which way we decide to go here.

What we must do is whatever is "right" for the forum, aussieveedubbers.com.

Brad, I agree with your last conclusion about the feeling so far. The status quo has worked, is working, and will no-doubt work in future. Mick Motors has been loyal to us, we should reward that loyalty (if in any way Mick has concerns about extra sponsors) with exclusivity.

By all means have a business directory on the forum somewhere, but leave well enough alone.

Regarding picture size, leave the limit at 50kb. I can't understand how something so trivial or petty could cause so much disquiet amongst adults. Come on guys and girls, them's the rules.

Steve

.....and with the dawn came reason.....

"I personally like the banner idea BUT if PUTOOEY MOTORS wants too advertise on a banner and people dont like em - they are aloud to say so"

"I love these things...i have learned a lot in the last couple of years"

"Thanks for the effort as I know it just doesn't happen by magic !!"

"What we must do is whatever is "right" for the forum, aussieveedubbers.com."

"The status quo has worked, is working, and will no-doubt work in future. Mick Motors has been loyal to us, we should reward that loyalty (if in any way Mick has concerns about extra sponsors) with exclusivity."


I think these remarks some up my feelings, and as I've quoted everyone else here I'll quote an idea I posted a couple of days ago.

How about posting an "Etiquette" Guide it could advise people on the prefered method of buying parts such as:

1. Post a request for parts and purchase from any forum member who has it.
2. If no forum member has it contact one of the sponsers (I'm assuming there will be more than one)
3. If 1 & 2 dont give you a result contact any of the other suppliers that people reply with in step 1.

If this were posted as a seperate area then we can all post an "I agree" message under it.

This would show our current sponsor that we are going to support them in return for the sponsorship and also if prospective sponsors see a list of 500 customers who have pledged to activley seek to purchase from them it would be a big incentive.

Thats it I'm Done.
😀

I don't like this idea Adam, as I said before. I LIVE in NSW and buy My parts from MICK MOTORS in BRISBANE... He gives good service to everyone no matter where they live.... and I know of 3 or 4 semi locals who do the same.... We all live in the country.... and Mick is the Sponsor after all.... but We bought from Him many years before the forum....
regards
Lee enjoy the holidays..Adz.:rudolf

1/ brad you do a top job. keep it up, and me being a fellow spitter on the odd occasion, well thats just the personality and not everybody has to like it and who cares. just keep up the good effort.
2/ i havn't been a member for very long but still being in oz, having a site like this is essential to kept the passion alive. it is a bitch having to talk to os people or read os mags just to keep up to date or learn something or find something.
3/ i think that if MICK MOTORS wants to keep as the main sponsor then great. if he has an issue about other names mentioned let him speak now and a solution reccomended. i personally deal with someone in nsw but i know now that if they cant come up with the goods, who i will contact second.
4/ i think each state and each business could have the right to list their name somewhere for a nominal fee. i think that if there is a vw parts business in SA trying to make a go of it. we should help to encourage it. this way we help the vw scene nationally grow. how many clubs have you all seen over the years or businesses or mags that just seem to fall by the side thru lack of awareness or interest.why shouldnt someone in SA be allowed to know about it rather than paying freight costs. then too, that community will not only grow there but also the forum will have more contacts and support.
5/ i dont think a pic size is something to cry over. i know i myself being computer illiterate and not knowing how to change sizes of pics makes it harder. but hey to create fuss about it being deleted is ignorant. if the rule is there people can learn how to comply. it surely cant be too hard.
6/ these are my words, however humble or miss guided. but then again its my point of view and after several years of dealing with the wrong people thru not knowing i am glad now that i can say go here or not go there and have a group that i contact in a second if im not sure...
7/:tree ALL HAVE A VERY MERRY XMAS AND LIVE YOUR DREAM. DRIVE THAT DAK DAK. DONT GARAGE IT.
8/ and please all of you out there help me locate a buggy......... im begging for a buggy. then i can get another split.

BRAD! Just do wat u think is best im shore u will make the right decision. Anyway u wont loose any members cos theres no other aussieveedub forums is there? u have a captive audience for ur sponsors

i dont think it is going to get stuffed at all
just going from small time to big time is difficult and i am glad we all get a say !
How about banners for big sponsors and smaller sponsors can pay for a e-mail to all members about specials/discounts/sales etc..
they get to send an email to all of us regarding specials they have for a small price and not have to pay a yearly amount.

of course these dont happen all the time and become an annoyance though.

........................................?

Brad,
We all know that You will do whatever is the best for the Forum ....
Thanks Mate.. for everything so far....
Lee
:thumb:thumb:tree

hmm..

glad this issue isn t a heated one anymore.
i agree that the loyalty and descretion that has been shown by mick motors should be rewarded. i dont think that we need to do down the path of getting more sponsors and better membership privelidges just yet.
seems to be working fine to me.

but i want to get one thing straight, and that is that i dont think this forum needs to change. works great as it is.

if other people think that it does, then thats fine, and we need to go and get more sponsorship, but lets find out whether people think that this change/improvement is needed before we start trying to do it.

if so then i have no probs with brad/andrew/jim or any other major contributors/moderators making a little on the side for their time and efforts.

lets keep mick and throw the ideas around for a bit longer tho!

just my 2c

cheers
Kim

MERRY CHRISTMAS:tree

I am all for the idea of a $10 annual membership. I can see members buying through sponsors only if they could get discount or items at trade. vw gear in general is not usually the most cheapest stuff to get and i am sure if members saw they can save money one way or another the sponsors would benefit greatley due to the increase in business.
i may be having a stab in the dark but i am sure with carefull planning everyone should benefit out of having a financial club.:bounce:thumb:thumb

I all for having the local guys have a separate section for advertisemnets for a nominal fee!!!! But let mick motors have the show

matt

I dont really care so long as:
1. there are no pop ups.
2. I am free to mention whoever regardless of whos name is at the top.
3. I dont have to pay to be here, whether its $10 $5 or 50c.

Just one thing though... and I may be outta line. I have nothing against Micks Motors. Never been there , never dealt with them, never been to the website even. I dont have any allegience with any VW shop now that Hellbug is gooooone. But I dont think this forum owes anything to Mick's. They paid $500 for a years sponsorship, and once that is gone... game over.
Whoever pays the bill next time gets the job. Simple.

Level 1 and 2 sponsorship would be easy to work out. Level 1 gets aussieveedubbers.com welcome page, contents page, maybe general chit chat page. Level 2 share the other less popular pages. Maybe even 3 levels. Cos I spose tech talk is pretty popular. Guessing that somewhere there is something counting number of hits per section, yes???

cant see how you can demand a discount from sponsors though. Think that is extreme.

Umm a lot to say for someone who doesnt care huh.

I like this -> :cussing Will come in handy fer sure.

Right the feel I am getting is that most people are happy with the forum as it sits and don't really mind what happens as long as that don't change.

Sounds simple to me, thanks for all teh feedback so far, keep teh ideas comming.

I have been aware of and have been a regular visitor to this forum for only two weeks and this limited experience has shown me, this forum is a valuable tool to the VW community.for those who need help, for those who are curious, for those who are proud and for those who may know something that should be shared. i have read all the comments and agree with one thing .do whatever is neccesary to keep it open.
My comments/suggestions now I have been asked are
1. giving members discounts with advertisers is a good idea but will see a rash of members join who do not intend to contribute to the forum ..possible solution. a weekly password for discounts, given when contributions are made...
2. I don't need any web/ email so these options do not interest me
3.registered clubs are tax exempt ..therefore why not register a club, charge a fee, use the money that does not incur a gst or tax to run the site with no advertsers.people wishing to advertise/sponsors can be listed as on a page titled suppliers in your area no fee needs to be charged as they will be paying by giving members discounts.if more money is raised than is needed then membership fees can be waived for the next year ect.
4. keep searching and asking... the best way forward will reveal itself as it invariably always will.....
keep up the good work you short tempered thin skinned #(*&@#/'.':

My thoughts...

Let who ever wants to sponsor sponsor.
The frequency and size dependant on their level of sponsorship.

Shows have multiple sponsors and they don't mind sponsoring the same event as their competition.

Businesses who don't sponsor should only referenced by a person directly involved and should not mention the name of the company. A discreet - I can help.
Alternatively, use the U2U or email functions.

Matt
* If it's old or rare - cut it *
*If it aint broke ... wait *

Ummm..... I don't think I can really contribute anything uselful to this discussion that hasn't already been said. 🙂

I'm not even going to list which statements I agree with, there are too many of them already. :thumb

I like the forum the way it is, but if exclusivity is upsetting other businesses, then let them in by all means, but get something out of them for the priviledge. Maybe a small sponsorship (like $50) for a small ad./link at the bottom of the page?

If it aint broke, dont fix it...
I like it the way it is. Let other shops pay an anual fee to be listed in a "directory" here if money and feelings are an issue.

Hutcho.

Way it is is good. Maybe Add sponsers line across
bottom of page.
- I think the email ads of specials occasionally would be OK ,
I already get adverts on email so few more I can put up with
and Being VW based would actually be
of some interest.
--- Would Hate Pop Ups, fixed banners Ok.🙂

My 2c.

1. We need money to run this place, and I trust you to get the mix right as you know exactly how much it costs. I have a fair idea from running my own sites, and I know you're getting a better rate than I am, so the money is being well spent. This place is an invaluable resource for those on limited budgets and I'd hate it to become a pay site. So advertising is about the only way forward.

2. Saying that, I'd prefer it if we didn't have any exclusive or lockout deals with any particular sponsor from simply a TPA point of view. The ACCC is extremely unlikely to come after us (we have no money after all), but unless Mick Motors is like a shareholder in a privately held company or organization who is the ICP for the site, I think it'd be safer if we opened it up to all. Don't get me wrong - I like our current sponsor and appreciate their support over the time I've been on here. But I also wouldn't mind it if say VWGA could advertise here, or one of the current dealers to add a bit of spice and change into the place. Or even a Melbourne-based business. :-)

3. It'd be nice to be able to have different ad rotations in different forum areas. For example, I think the advertisers in Tech Talk and Buy Swap and Sell would be roughly the same and would be a certain set of advertisers, but there might be a greater audience and wider interest in the General Chit Chat (ie slightly higher prices per 1000 views).

4. No pop ups. Preferably no skyscraper ads. And definitely no ad rotations from doubleclick, 24x7 and their ilk. If you need an ad rotator, I'm sure I could help find a free one that allows us to manage it properly.

5. It'd be nice to encourage our sponsors to offer discounts, but it shouldn't be mandatory. Therefore a moderated forum with these details posted in there would be very helpful. Obviously our more penny wise members will go to places that offer discounts. :-) From experience in this industry, most advertisers seem happy to do such things anyway as it is a cheap way to help them identify where they should be spending their advertising revenue anyway (ie if they get 50% saying they're from the local VW club and 50% saying they're from us, then they'll spend about 50% of their advertising budget with us).

Other than that, keep up the fine work, and keep us informed.

thanks,
Andrew

OK, I think we have a lot of good ideas here from people that really care about both the forum and associated members and sponsors. It's good to see that on the whole, we are pretty much on track with the whole VW family feeling.

Time for my suggestions now that I've pondered it long enough and read what some of us have to say on the subject.

1. Our welcome page should have our logo and name pretty big on it, with the main sponsor's (currently our mate Mick) extra large banner displayed there for the current sponsorship of $500 per annum..

2. I think an animated gif banner at the top of each forum section displaying level 2 sponsor's ads in succession would work. Maybe worth $100 per annum for that and we should maybe limit it to 5 or 6 or 7 business banners in the animation cycle.

3. Then I can picture a section titled "VW Professionals" having a breakup of the states and a listing for each business that coughs up $10 per year and an image for any business willing to pay $20 per year. It would use the existing structure of the forum posts and only the moderators of that section could post (when someone requests a listing by email or phone).

4. I also reckon members should be advised in a terms and conditions page not to post any overly strong positive or negative comments about a particular business. This is to curb any basic abuse by negating the appropriate fee for advertising rights.

5. Sponsors should be encouraged to offer discounts, but shouldn't be pushed as it's up to them how much they can afford to trim their prices for us and how much they want to attract our business in their direction rather than the next bloke in the list.

6. It's my strong opinion that this forum should always remain free to members and be supported by our sponsors. Some members don't care either way, but others that contribute a great deal would pull away or not feel so good about being here anymore if they were made to pay for the privilege. We're all brothers and sisters in the world of VWs and especially on this forum, so lets stick together and we'll all enjoy the time we spend with each other on here.

These are just ideas that I'd feel comfortable with and I think all concerned would find it hard to feel left out or discriminated against... Actually, I can't claim that these are necessarily even my ideas, just my view after seeing what everyone else thought about it.


Oh yeah, don't hassle Brad so much over all this, after all if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have the forum as stable as it is today, actually we might not have it at all. He's done a lot of good work on this forum and is now trying to make sure we don't step on anyones toes and include everyone whilst keeping the forum members as happy as can be... Don't stand in front of him, get behind him. He might be an arrogant bugger sometimes, but he's a good bloke on the inside and is the forum's most valuable member now.


[Edited on 19-12-2002 by The CAR VET]

:sandrine

What exactly was the point of this thread?
Only 2 people on this forum are privy to the details of the sponsorship anyway. The rest of us don't know & probably don't need to know.
Have others been lining up to sponsor the forum? If so, who?

If it was about people plugging other VW shops, well, big deal.
The idea of a forum is to swap views & information.
If I get a good deal somewhere, then it is , more or less, my DUTY to inform the rest of the members. Irrespective of whether or not they are a sponsor of the forum.

As for Brad being a good bloke, YES, as a matter of fact he is, I've spoken to him several times.
But his administrative skills leave a hell of a lot to be desired.
I've been part of this forum since the outset, & page one of this thread is the 1st time I have ever seen the administrator launch a personal attack on a member

Looked like self-defence to me officer
😀:P😀😀:P😀😀:P😀😀:P😀😀:P😀

I agree with Steve's suggestions, but I'm equally happy for things to stay as they are.

As for Brad making a 'personal attack', I didn't see anything of the sort. Brad has my support 100%. He's doing a great job. :thumb

Brad,

Have just U2U'd you!

So exactly how would you classify "What the &^%$ drugs are you on" ??

If that's not a personal attack I'll stand f#cked.

Just one thought,
what if Fred Bloggs Motors becomes a sponser? then a number of aussiveedubbers put posts on saying that the service they got from Fred Bloggs was crap,
Brad, would you leave the comments or would you have to show some loyalty to the sponser and remove the posts.

We have not had any comments from the founder of this site, any comments Jim?

Cheers
Dave:jesus

Thanks Dave, I'm glad someone remembers that I started this forum. I don't like to ring my own bell about the fact that I started this forum as I consider it a gift to VeeDubbing in Oz, but I also put a hell of a lot of time and effort in making this forum what it is, or more like what it was before Brad has done the sensational job of taking over unexpectantly, and for those that criticise, should be ashamed. Lately I have been way too busy lately for much time on the forum, but I am trying to rectify this problem. I also would like to thank Andrew for his input, but saying that, without trying to offend him, his efforts pale when comparing to Brads and my own. Don't believe me? Check the post count.. To add to that, I have 600 odd emails I have sent to people in order to attract them to this site. When was the last time you sent 600 emails? Enough bell ringing.

Firstly, as Spook said, the details of sponsorship aren't well known, nor should they be or need to be. Saying that, I can tell you that Mick Motors helped us out incredibly... but it wasn't $500. This is a niche market people. Advertisers advertise for $80 in magazines such as 'Just Cars' for a quarter of a page, in a broad market. If people want the exposure, and they are serious about their business, they will pay. Not to mention the advertising on television or internet accordingly; likewise you can compare to our rates with their broad targets. Fatboy will tell you about the internet advertising no doubt.

This money isn't used for personal gain.(Even if it is, do YOU care, or are you just in agreement?) For Brad or whoever to get money out of this, would be fine, but let me tell you, after the running costs, domain name, webspace and so on, there isn't much left. When I was administrator, and still like to think I am, it actually cost me out of my own pocket to run this site, as I would expect it has with Brad and the webspace issue.
Generally where this money goes is to making more money.. It never gets spent on any one individual IF there is a profit.. It goes to people like Bronze, who may then be able to lower the price of the stickers or shirts and so on.. At the end of the day, YOU the Forum member, benefit indirectly from this sponsorship, if not directly.

Does anyone remember the popup adds? If not, go back to Ezyboard and have a surf around there for 10 minutes and see how nuts you go.. Solution? Sponsorship to pay for an ad-free site such as this..
Getting the point?

The other alternative is for members to pay, $10-$20 p.a., and have no sponsorship. No one gains. The VW community doesn't benefit. And most importantly from a personal perspective, this site becomes a paying site, and that was one of my goals that it WOULDN'T become, because in my history and knowledge, as soon as people pulling money out of their pocket and putting it on the web instead of their cars, someone else will make a free one. Everyone wants something for free. Everyone. And this sponsorship is the only way it is going to happen and maintain the momentum and harmony we have here now..

cWell said Jim and it is good to have you around again.

I think the forum is fine how it is, if you need more sponsorship to keep it running we know you will do whats right for the forum.

It should stay free for members and as simple as possible, some of the suggestions were getting a bit complicated.

A separate section would be handy for parts places etc. saves time looking up the yellow pages. Any decent business would give you a small discount for mentioning the forum if they are part of it.

Maybe a free car club section as well listing contact details etc. that can't be modified by members.

Eventually we'll end up with a pretty comprehensive database of vw relate clubs & businesses.

Its not hard to keep pictures under 50k just open paint and keep scaling down.

Keep up the good work and keep veedubbing.

If no nudity is allowed on the site are links acceptable, don't want to start ww4 again but just a quick answer. We are talking about belles beetle & splitties from a while ago and that ugly naked guy type of stuff? Is it allowavble to display a link to these pictures

I would call Brad's response a natural reaction from a person who is working his ass off to keep this forum alive, and then having to be subjected to unfounded suspicions as to his intentions.

He is putting forward a proposition to see what the rest of the members want in open discussion, so that they make the decision, not him.

If anybody is going the ruin this forum, its going to be 'us', as in the members, not Brad.

Regarding the links to nudity on other sites, go ahead, just make sure that you put some kind of warning in your post. As long as the nudity is not hosted on this forum, it's ok. Please make sure that the sites are VW-related though, I'm sure most of us don't want to see links to www.porn.com or similar, we come here for VWs. 🙂

No one has made any comments of what will happen if people start to slag off the sponsers?
See my previous post.
I think this needs clarifying before you go ahead.
Hey Brad, will you just delete the posts to keep the sponsers happy or will you let people have their right to free speech???????

I think the idea of having this post for 72 hours is a bit short sighted I think it will go on for a while until you get the feelings of the members>

Nice to hear from our founder,
Whats up Jim , too busy, do you still have a say???

Cheers
Dave
:jesus

I would like to put forward what I think to be a VERY IMPOIRTANT POINT OF VIEW.
which will, for political reasons purely hypothetical.
Somebody buy's their first kombi. They fall in love with it...but it needs some work.
They stumble across this web site and feel a huge sigh of relief. If australian wide vw's have *whoever* as their sponcer he must be good. So, confident owner takes their kombi off to *whoever*
As owner has absolutely no mechanical skills at all when they pick kombi up from *whoever* they are still feeling increadibly confidant .......as they are going around last corner aproaching highway wheel falls compleatly off (car had {hypothetically of course} been in for brake work)
If this had happened while said car was doing 110km down highway I shudder to think what would have happened to mother and four babies in the back.
wheel was mising pin.

I hate to break it to you but like it or not there is a huge amount of responsibility to do with who you allow to be a sponsor.
this hypothetical owner has been left feeling Very traumatised. If you don't know of a good mechanic you rely on others to tell you about them.
Rember this situation could have potentiallly killed five people.

i gotta agree with alot of the comments ive read already. if no more money is needed, then lets not stir things up, but if it is:
i believe we should keep on MickMotors as our major sponsor, and give him exclusive advertising rights, but we should also have a page of VW shops, where companies can have their name, address, ph. no. and a short description listed. nowdays companies are paying money just to get listed on major search engines, and they pay-per-hit. we can offer businesses advertising on the ONLY aussie veedub sight around, and a fee of, say $80 pa they wont even notice the cost (think of the cost of advertising in the yellow pages) a club discount from these businesses would be great, and i too would have no qualms about paying $10 a year in membership fees. if we make the membership fees optional - ie -you pay, you get the discount card/dont pay, no card. then noone will feel pushed off of the forum if they dont want to pay.

just another person with 2c worth

hope it is useful thinking

:rudolf:beer:party

Spook wrote::sandrine

I've been part of this forum since the outset, & page one of this thread is the 1st time I have ever seen the administrator launch a personal attack on a member

Spook Spook Spook, if you read teh comments in context you will see that it was in response to Alec saying that I was ruining the forum, and that he had heard bad things, yet he never offered to explanin what these things were and who had said them.
Also since you have been around since teh start then your memory must be lacking as both Jim and I have had fights with other members on line before, several resulting in them being banned. Just because I am an admin / moderator I will not sit by and have people make commenst about me without a response, being admin means I will happily enforce the rules of the board and fix tech problems where I can. Since you are always on about freedom of speach and the likes you should understand this. From memory it wasn't that long ago that you yourself were having a go at someone on this very board.
I think you need to clarify your comment as I beleive it shoudl read more along the lines of As a politically correct admin he sucks .
In regards to sponsors :

Yes I have been approached by several VW shops who wish to sponsor the board, VVDS, The one Empi works for, one in WA whos name I can't remember. So there is interest.

Money - the board can continue to run under the current setup WITH NO PROBLEMS and I am happy to do this. BUT teh problem that I see comes from the exclusive bit with Mick Motors. You see in case some people out there don't realise I have a very close realtionship with them. Now if I was to say no to all other sponsors then I would not see that as fare if , however, the voice of teh members is that Exclusive is fine then that suits me to a tee as it is easy to organise. I don't mind, I am happy to introduce an on line business directory for free.
The 72 hrs thing came from my want to have an endstate and not leave it going for months, if the feel is that it needs to be longer then so be it ..
I am in no real rush.

I know what the context was.
Point is brother, as boss cocky, you no longer have the luxury of knee jerk reactions. Which of course is another reason I kept knocking back a moderators job....😉

I can't imagine how many times young Jim has had to hold his "tongue".

Hey again.
I disagree with the free directory. This has been 18 months of hard work.. HARD. Why now give the fruits of our labour to businesses for free when originally, the only business that wanted to know us was Mick Motors. He was the ONLY one that even RESPONDED to my emails, and I sent probably 20 sposorship emails, to every VW business with some sort of web presence.. I mean, how hard is it to respond to an email and say 'no thanks, but good luck.' Needless to say it left a sour taste. This side of the discussion reminds of that story when the the Hen cooks the bread, but first has to get the wheat and shit.. Asks for help.. 'Not I' said the pig and so on.. Well.. I feel like Miss fricken Hen here, and if all those other 'pigs' didn't wanna help make the fricken bread, why should we let them eat it for free?? 🙁

*Slaps himself* Sorry... Bit outta control, but you get the jist.

We know there is VW businesses out there, and if we wanna find em we can. From a business' perspective, they want to be proactive, and not waiting for their customers, and a ongoing information database such as this is not going to come cheap.. Don't be afraid of sponsorship. They claim it all as business costs.. So if you pay taxes, then here is it finally coming back to help you.. Because it is tax payers $$.

Don't throw this away for the sake of some $$..

Maybe it's time for a simple poll of the members

- Keep Mick Motors as the single sponsor of the forum.

- Open it up to others on the basis of the sponsorship packages discussed.

I'm sure there are plenty of members who have not had a formal say because they agree with what has already been said.
Dean

Sooty,

Having a sponser is not a recomendation.

Magizines / newspapers only continue to operate on their advertising income and take advertising from almost anyone.
If you have a bad experiance with a company then it has nothing to do, either legally or morally with the people who carry that companies advertisments.

Also, with regards to freedom of speech, pick up any trade magazine and you will see letters from readers who have had a bad experiance with companys who advertise with the mag. Its a fact of life that all companys (Like everyone else) cant please all people all the time, and some people will complain about anything.

The important thing is that whether through this forum or in a magizine companys get the oppportunity to respond. I have seen more than a few people make themselves look very silly by making untrue or exaggerated statements about their "Bad" experiance only to have the company respond with documented facts, also I have seen a number of cases where company's have just simply had to apologise.

In short (OK well not that short) I can think of no company that seeks to gag it's clients (Apart from few "Adult" clubs where I believe thats the whole point 😉 ).

So these are both non-issues.

Fatboy, I think that sooty makes a good point. We need to be careful about who this forum uses as a sponsor.
There will be, whether its intended or not, a percieved level of endorsement by this forum for the sponser on the banner above. Because its one of the faces of the VW community in Australia.
Commercial businesses constantly seek this type of endorsement from non proft groups, because it the best form of advertising.
We certainly would not want to have the Liar & Deshonko Bros as a major sponsor because the forum would loose credibilty with the members due to bad experiences with the sponsor. Its called a halo effect and it can be bad or good.:beer

[Edited on 21-12-2002 by Grey 57]

I'll have to disagree with you on that one Dean.

A company paying for the privlage of advertising spac does not receive an endorsment from the people providing the space.
If my mobile phone shorts out and burns my ear do I get mad at Vodofone or Melbourne Trams because I bought it after seeing the Vodafone Tram.

Anyway this is getting way to serious - we can What if ? Forever.

Got to go The Bills coming on.

Why dont we have any empty glasses ?

:beer

This isn't mass market mobile phones , this is a special interest area, were many of the people have limited knowledge and quite rightly look to this forum for guidance.
I'm talking about perception here and perception is reality to most people.
We are lucky that we have an excellent sponsor in Mick Motors.
Mick has a responsibility to the members to provide qualty service and maintain a reputable business that reflects well on the forum . We as AussieVee Dubbers have a responsibilty to maintain a well run site that does not infringe legal or ethical codes and reflects well on our sponsor. This partnership is working well.

Imagine if one of the partners in this relationship were to not living up to their responsibilities. Disaster.
If this is about leveraging the finacial side of the forum, then there are better ways.
Non conflicting sponsor packages , clothing ect.
Sorry to waffel on just my 2c worth.
If it aint broke don't fix it:beer

Morally, Dean is correct, but legally, Steve is correct.

Let's cover our asses legally - let anybody who wants to sponsor us do so. Comments about those companies can be made by anybody who is willing to state the reasons for their praise/complaints. 🙂

Kol, not sure I know what legal issue you are talking about here. But what I have been eluding to is that we have an excellent VW specialist sponsor currently who is happy to continue so why change.
:thumb
Refer to Jims posts about loyalty. Sure we are bound to ensure that we operate within the bounds of the law. But I know of no law that states we have to open up the sponsorship of this site to all takers.

A defamation suit could only be bought up against an induvidual. The forum should be covered in the terms and conditons of membership.

I suspect from the link that has appeared at the top of this page that the decisions have been made.
However....

Sootys' original post was basically "What if our sponser does a bad job and kills someone", Well sorry but this IS a non issue "What if Mick does a bad job and kills someone", everybody has a bad day.

"people have limited knowledge and quite rightly look to this forum for guidance"
Absolutley, and they take their guidance from the members - I have not seen a single post from Mick saying "Im great use me - I wont kill you".(although it is quite a catchy jingle"🙂

"perception is reality to most people" unfortunatly I come across this phrase a lot (As I'm sure you do) and I believe it's a fallacy. Perceptions can be swayed / changed or simply become outdated Facts are what most people eventually accept as reality.

"We are lucky that we have an excellent sponsor in Mick Motors" couldn't agree more - When nobody wanted to know, he put his hand in his pocket and I've heard great things about him.

"Mick has a responsibility to the members to provide qualty service and maintain a reputable business that reflects well on the forum" - No sorry I dont agree. I think Mick has a responsibility to himself and his business to ensure that he continues to operate in a profitable way - To acheive this he needs to provide the kind of service you describe to ALL his customers.

"We as AussieVee Dubbers have a responsibilty to maintain a well run site that does not infringe legal or ethical codes and reflects well on our sponsor. This partnership is working well. " :thumb couldn't agree more.

"Imagine if one of the partners in this relationship were to not living up to their responsibilities. Disaster." - A bit overdramatic maybe it depends what those responsibilties are Micks is to provide us with $500 per year ours is to run a legal and ethical forum. Actually Yes ! (My perception just changed after reviewing the facts 😉 ) If mick failed to meet his $500 (and was the only sponser )then that could result in the forum being closed likewise if we allow illegal material to be posted on this site. So yes "Disaster".

"If this is about leveraging the finacial side of the forum, then there are better ways. Non conflicting sponsor packages, clothing ect." - Mostly agree, I do not see that any sponsorship deals could conflict. Mick has been around for many years and been competing with other suppliers since he opened the doors, he has survived because he is good - simple. I do think that we should open the doors to types of businesses (Paintshops / upholsterers etc).

If NE1 is still reading them what it comes down to (IMHO) is this.

This forum is superb and is running today in an excellent manner. It offers a service to it's members which is irreplaceable.
It also has a financial liability in that it has operational costs, which are currently met by its sponsor.
Mick has been in business for a long time and is likely to continue to be operational.
However 24 months ago I would have said the same of Exxon and MCI Worldcom.
A risk analysis would show that whilst the likelyhood of MIck Motors folding is Low the consequences would be extremely high.
Therefore the best way to ensure the ongoing availability of aussieveedubbers is to spread the risk and have alternative sources of income.

"Sorry to waffel" Mate thats not a Waffel NOW THIS, THIS is a waffle,

Hope I haven't offended you mate.
I tend to view these things as "Verbal Chess" and enjoy them far more than I should 😉

Verbal Chess, lets go. And no you haven't offended me. Low blow with the spelling mistakes tho, its been along day.
You are quite right that the forum is exposed from a finacial point of view. However if we do not allow some form of exclusive to sponsors this situation will only get worse as the value recieved for the money spent will be eroded.
My point is that to attract and retain quality sponsors we need to offer them this at least.
To spread the risk we can tailor sponsorship packages to other non competing parties. I.e. Beetle Juice
Think outside the square.
Sponsor packages could be reviewed every 12 months, with the encumbent having the first refusal on the next sponsorship period. Having them line up wanting to be a part of this can only be a good thing for the forum.
But also don't forget loyaty. Mick annied up when the rest didn't want to know.
Gotta be worth something.
Cheers
Dean
:beer

Oh and regarding perception vs reality. I have been a sales and marketing proffessional for 20 yrs and can tell you that perception is reality. No question

[Edited on 21-12-2002 by Grey 57]

OK. Ready ?... Lets go.

YES.

Hows that for anticlimax ?

I think we are starting to agree.

I'll drop you a U2U about thinking out of the square (Not the appropriate place here).

As for the spelling -- ????????

You wouldnt belive how paranoid I get about that, everything I do these days has access to a spellchecker so when I have a rant on here I tend to do it in Word and paste it in. Pathetic eh ?
I keep imagining Kruzin and Bronze (Being teachers) sitting at home and grading my posts. I bet they can't help themselves🙂 So any spelling corrections or mistakes are purley the fault of B.Gates.

Ohh I just got another beer ready for round 3.

Learning when to stay down is something I picked uo from my full contact days.

You have given me a dilema though -- Waffles or a beer ?

Beer, it Xmas after all:beer:beer:beer

Actually I think its bed.

Have you checked who's logged on ?
Me an you mate, thats it - How sad is that ?

Come to think of it by the time you read this it'll just be you :P

One big issue that we seem to be brushing over here is that the Forum is not an entity ...... so if we do take on more sponsors, well even with the current one the only assurances that have been given to the sponsors is that from myself personnaly.
Which puts it all at an interesting level, because what ever deals are set up are going to have to have time and effort put into them to maintain. As soon as we accept money from a sponsor then we are legally abliged to provide the service for which we have been contracted to give.
This is where it all gets a little to hard for my head. I can't see any real way we can take sponsorship as an organisation, only as an individual. Then comes the other issues of the forum being started by Jim, but belonging to the members and round and round we go.
I have been reading all the posts with interest and it is good to see that forum members care about what is going on.
From where I sit now, with what I have read here and in e-mails my opinion is begining to change towards doing whatever is needed to keep this place functioning at the required level and keep the way in which this is achieved under my hat. Seems to work quite well so far cause no one out there has ever asked what the deal with Mick is, what he pays or what has been promissed.
So do you think anyone will really care if a banner add appears on a few of the pages with other vw and non vw related businesses on it ? Yes I have non related VW businesses interested in sponsorship as well.
SO what sayeth the masses ????


[Edited on 22-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz]

You have my backing Brad. You know what you're doing and you're right, if everyone knew the gorey details, there'd be such a huge cat fight on here about it either being the best way or the worst way to do things etc...

I think everyone would agree on one point though, and that is that our forum is now so big and popular that we've got people wanting ad space here. We should all be proud of ouselves.

i say let them in, bring on the banners!!!!!

Sure bring em on. Put down the bottom, as I did with my sisters for a while. They don't get prime location, but they don't pay the prime prices either..

If we are interested, we the members that is, then we'll look..

Hey! How did i get the credit for author of this topic???????????
I didn't start it :cry

I too say "bring em on" Especially the non VW ones (or ones that in no way would compete with our No.1 sponser.).

Smaller banners at the bottom of the pages sound good. :thumb

Ok, firstly thanks for all the input and suggestions I got, both on and off line.
I am still working on the exact details for sponsorship but in light of all that transpired over the last week the plan will be different to the original intent. It will be along the following lines,

Major Sponsor - The forum will have only one of these, this option will be extended to Mick Motors for as long as he wishes to take it.
Banner Sponsor - There will shortly be a banner style add on the top or bottom of each page ( in the header or footer not both ) It will be a static graphic that will rotate each time you open a page. So if there is 100 sponsors there will be 100 graphics in random rotation. Cost TBC, no limitations planned on who can have one of these.
Directory sponsor - To become listed in the directory you will need to display an Aussieveedubbers.com banner on your website index page. If you do not have a website then we will send you an A4 poster to be put in your shop. Once confirmation of its placement has been gained then you will be added to the directory.
That is pretty much the jist of what is going to happen. Any final comments are welcome.

[Edited on 26-12-2002 by Buggy Boyz]

Sounds excellent, well done Brad. :thumb

Well done!!!!!!!!!!

Well if I have to cop the credit as author .....and now that it has all been fixed up I must say what a clever chappy i am to think of it.
HA HA HA :bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce

Hi there, you lot probably don't wanna a pommy sticking an oar into your forum, but Volkszone in Britain went through a similar problem.

We have one banner at the top of the forum. Thats it. We used to have an insurance banner and the owners got a small fee paid to them in respect of who clicked on to it. It was never very many cause most the people that use the forum clicked on once on the banner then never bothered (Especially when they got their quotes through! 😀 ) Volkszone is a big VW site, and the forum is just part of it. It is one big infopool of VW info and if anyone has got a question of where is the best place to buy, get help or what ever, they just ask on the forum. Most people will recommend the company on the banner, others will recomend others. No one gets upset about it.

Thats the whole point of a fourm.

If you need to advertise to gain money for the running of the forum thats fine. But why ask the users? Everyone is going to differ. Brian was paying it out of his own pocket. Alot of the regular forum users thought that this was a bit steep, considering that they used it as much as he did. They came up with the idea of donating a small amount (They didn't set an amount it was up to each user). Ok we don't get web space for our own interests but that don't bother anyone.

As for advertising the site, word of mouth, stickers on drag race cars and magzines (Forum users daily drives) seems to do the trick. When you get enough users, word of mouth normally works. Thats how I found out about Volkszone

thats enough of my ramblings. Take a look at www.volkszone.co.uk and click on forums. Its not by anymeans the best, but it works.

Now you can all tell me to piss orf.

We wouldn't tell you to piss off...we're too busy watching the cricket 🙂

I am who you think I am 🙂 5th day was just a teaser!!