Brand new engine run in on the dyno!! After all this work i finally got it going and going well at that!!! We had to tune it on the dyno to set the computer for the fuel injection. Specs of the motor are: 9:3:1 comp, 1.25.1 rocker, 2332cc, 84x94, street eliminator heads, 46x38 valves, 500thou lift, experimental cam, 1 5/8 headers full merged, 2.5'' system with borla muffler, porsche fan set up, thunder cords ignition and leads, and fresh penrith air at CBB's dyno!! We are also going to try some 1.4.1 rockers. After gettin the fuel air curve right i got 136.1hp @ 5600 and with crazy 900lbs of tractive effort (torque)!!!! It all most drove off the rollers!! From 4000 to 6000 rpm the motor will have over 110hp at the wheels.
Alex
[Edited on 27-6-2004 by Alex Holzl]
gayanne ·
Alex Holzl wrote:Hello all
Brand new engine run in on the dyno!! After all this work i finally got it going and going well at that!!! We had to tune it on the dyno to set the computer for the fuel injection. Specs of the motor are: 9:3:1 comp, 1.25.1 rocker, 2332cc, 84x94, street eliminator heads, 46x38 valves, 500thou lift, experimental cam, 1 5/8 headers full merged, 2.5'' system with borla muffler, porsche fan set up, thunder cords ignition and leads, and fresh penrith air at CBB's dyno!! We are also going to try some 1.4.1 rockers. After gettin the fuel air curve right i got 136.1hp @ 5600 and with crazy 900lbs of tractive effort (torque)!!!! It all most drove off the rollers!! From 4000 to 6000 rpm the motor will have over 110hp at the wheels.
Alex
[Edited on 27-6-2004 by Alex Holzl]
LOWBUG ·
I thought you would have got more than that from that size engine, the lamda looks like it could use some more work.
Good Luck
Craig Torrens ·
should be fun to drive in the wet............approx 50hp at about 3500rpm, then 500revs later it has 110hp !!!
Good drag combo, very narrow and steep power curve.
Doug Sweetman ·
Please take this tongue in cheek, (as most of the other pobjoy comments on here should be taken !!!)...... but 2332 w/ street eliminators and EFI and you only made 15 hp more than a steroids 1916 ?
Nah just jokes, looks like a real nice combo - should be able to keep it fairly cool too - only 9.3 : 1 and a porsche fan should keep it happy......
Nice to see another hot VW on the road. Especially another one with EFI - what computer are you running ? From memory your motor is twin weber style throttle bodies isnt it ?
BiX ·
What is the lamda on the chart? air/fuel?
Alex Holzl ·
thanks people.
i was expecting more but it is an experimental cam that we are trying in our motors and it may need more lift for the top end power.. but allthou it not as high as expected it has 900 lbs of tractive effort!!! and dont forget its a brand new motor needs some ks still... how much torque does your 1916 have? And please remember this is a endurence motor low comp and soft valve train i want it to last and not be doin tappets all the time! well i think it will be HEAPS of power for me for a while!! I think the power may be mre usable compared to a motor that makes more at a big spike... Well im really happy with my whole car and just cant wait to get out on the track!!!
alex
Alex Holzl ·
oh and the computer is a very old its a F7 hultech and can be only tuned to every 500 rpm..
Craig Torrens ·
Doug Sweetman wrote:Please take this tongue in cheek, (as most of the other pobjoy comments on here should be taken !!!)...... but 2332 w/ street eliminators and EFI and you only made 15 hp more than a steroids 1916 ?
Doug my comments had nothing to do with 1916's, strokers, pobjoy or any other politically based reasons............................................just a very logical (my) interpretation of a graph ! not really brain surgery.
😉
seagull ·
um @ what cost is all this ?
Alex Holzl ·
lol im not worried ppl... hey craigie what torque did you motor make?
seagull ·
O I left out Please .
Alex Holzl ·
this motor was built over a very long time with collected parts... but it still want real cheap.
Craig Torrens ·
Alex Holzl wrote:lol im not worried ppl... hey craigie what torque did you motor make?
you can only measure Torque on an engine dyno, not a chassis Dyno, so I did not worry about plotting it, instead I plotted the Air/Fuel ratio which is more applicable to tuning on a chassis Dyno.
The figures you are quoting regarding torque really mean nothing, stick with the HP figures
Good result.
😉
Alex Holzl ·
yeh but its fuel injection its gonna be right... but anywayz
seagull ·
from here you need to build a gear box to get all of this going I guess ,close ratios ect.
at a guess you would of spent around 8 > 9 k on this if you did it from new ?
Alex Holzl ·
Man im soo happy that my car came with a ratio box with a tall 1st and 2nd and short 3rd and almost standard 4th with a ZF L.S.D. Yeh around 8-9 grand would be a good estimate.. man its not cheap!!! ive got alot of work to do to pay my ass off!!!
seagull ·
Yes I would say so as well .I take my hat off to you lads with air cooled motors its a shame you need to spend so many $ .I will be happy with my ej20 quad cam 🙂
Alex Holzl ·
lol.. what ya putting it in? are you coming racin with us?
seagull ·
its in my trike
[Edited on 28-6-2004 by seagull]
Alex Holzl ·
OMG!!!!! your a NUTTER!! man thats gonna move!!:bounce:bounce
seagull ·
can you see why I need those hubs !
this is the other one with a 1641 , sorry to side track your post alex ,seagull
[Edited on 28-6-2004 by seagull]
Alex Holzl ·
yeh i see y!! man i cant beleave how late this stuff is!!! its ok.. the 1641 look close to just been able to drive?
seagull ·
it would of been I sold this motor and decided to go with subaru with mine .I have one with a 1600cc and one with the ej20 .I will sell the vw powered one when it finished .
We have done a ej22 mid mount as well this is one the road now .
[Edited on 28-6-2004 by seagull]
Alex Holzl ·
wow what was that like to drive?
seagull ·
well it is very fast ! it goes around a corner like its on rails ,the big differance is the motor in the mid position ,with trikes the motor at the rear you lift the front wheel very easy .this smokes the wheels for start .it has a stock motor done around 120000 ks .I get a photo on the weekend for you .I can say you will fall over when you see it .
One big change to these is a sway bar on the rear ,I fit a eh holden .
[Edited on 28-6-2004 by seagull]
Alex Holzl ·
man i beleave every work!! got ney pics of it driving
seagull ·
give me a yell if you come to perth ,I get max to take you for a spin .
speedster356 ·
Looks sweet Alex!
Look out Wakefield in July me thinks! 😉
You staying the whole weekend over the 18th?
[Edited on 28-6-2004 by speedster356]
Alex Holzl ·
yeh for sure!!! sounds wicked!! you should take it to the drags soo wat ya can pull!
Alex Holzl ·
cheers mate.
i dunno maybe we might not sure yet you?
speedster356 ·
Yeah heading down on Saturday I think for some intense presprint beer drinking.:beer
Alex Holzl ·
where are you staying? we should meet up sat.
seagull ·
um what did you fit the donk to ?
Alex Holzl ·
who me?
seagull ·
yes alex
Alex Holzl ·
oh lol the 2332 is in my blue 57 beetle
speedster356 ·
No accomodation at the moment, I'll book this week.
fullnoise ·
Good Result Alex.
More Horsepower per liter than everyone except Troy!
CYA CT
Craig Paton ·
What's Troy got??
Cheers Craig P.
56astro ·
121hp, 1916, carbies
Craig Paton ·
Hmm that's healthy!!
56astro ·
Can't wait to see your new one dynoed
:bounce
Craig Paton ·
Hi Steve
It's still probably 6-8 weeks away yet, but I can't wait either!
Craig.
Alex Holzl ·
What you have?
Craig Torrens ·
And the NEW NEW steroids should be dynoed by then as well !!!
looks like there will be Dyno charts everywhere !!!!
Alex Holzl ·
hopefuly... I want all these ppl to come racing!! on the track that is..???
Adam_C ·
57 beetle? isnt it just an oval window grafted into an older model? coz of the outside the car fuel door, and the late model bumpers and whatnot ????
Adam_C ·
but mate, for a first car, its a quick mother&#*$%^ wish my beelte had this kinda pwr, ah well my 40 horses will do me for cruzin
Alex Holzl ·
its a oval with late aprons front and rear... look at the front window its small as!!
seagull ·
I was looking for your car alex ? where do I look members rides ?
Alex Holzl ·
some more pic of my dubby
seagull ·
um where ? and are those wheels the ones you dad let you put on for a day ?
Alex Holzl ·
huh? the bbs have always been on the car...???
seagull ·
I must be looking a differant car ! its the white van in the window correct hee hee
Alex Holzl ·
wat pic are you look at?
seagull ·
V force performance
Alex Holzl ·
oh ok im with you... yer wat about the van?
seagull ·
I see it now all is cool
Alex Holzl ·
no worries :thumb
seagull ·
So oval with what guards ? late model ? how did they fit ect ?
Alex Holzl ·
say again?
seagull ·
I see you have wide fenders those things that cover the wheels fiberglass ?
Alex Holzl ·
lol sorry... yeh they are early oval guards widened and with the mods done to the bottom... yer fiberglass... even less weight!!
Alex Holzl ·
was just talkin to my dad and we just remebered that last year at valla we bought the case that is now in my car!! Its been a YEAR since we bought the bloody case!!
seagull ·
you have a mould of these ? dak to the future car ?
I have a book here please ask you dad for me 1997 automechanika Frankfurt trade show there was a photo in the mag best vw showing catalytic converters to beetles top right page are they avalible ?
long shot I know dont aske dont get hey 🙂
Alex Holzl ·
lol yeh hes said it was a mexican beetle engine, should be avaiable in the U.S.. the mold for the dak dub is a one peace front mold... and the shape of those areos are different...
seagull ·
tell him I still have the book LOL !
and can I have P & A on six sets please of the cats
Alex Holzl ·
what you think of this kt car?
seagull ·
I am looking at an 911 or I sould say 930 kit car now ,but adr rules are a killer !
I dont think I can run the svx 3.3 motor ,water boxer auto with a lsd , need to see my man regarding all this
Alex Holzl ·
yeh... its getting hard to have fun now ay?
seagull ·
yes try building a trike with a jap motor !
Alex Holzl ·
hmmmmmmm... hows yours goin?
seagull ·
yes soon have the 316 ss headers back side rails ect .I will then do the body with the mg tf guards .
[Edited on 29-6-2004 by seagull]
Alex Holzl ·
yeh sweeet make sure you keep the pics coming in!!
seagull ·
I need to go back to school to learn how to blow the photos up .
[Edited on 29-6-2004 by seagull]
Alex Holzl ·
did you make that exhaust system? whats it made out of?
seagull ·
yes I made it .From 316 stainless steel I doing the muffler now
this in Dn 50mm 90 deg bends that I have cut the sides out and weld
[Edited on 29-6-2004 by seagull]
[Edited on 29-6-2004 by seagull]
Alex Holzl ·
me mate around the corner is doing a turbo motor and he used bloody steam pipe!! the system is a heavy as!!
seagull ·
less weight more free HP !
Alex Holzl ·
yeh this turbo motor isnt short of hp thou... but apparently this is wat ur ment to use on turbo systems
seagull ·
I have this tube on a turbo falcon it glows at night but no probs .
My toyota 3gte 71two door has the same tube
Alex Holzl ·
yeh doesnt crack?
seagull ·
Have you read about the boost control DIY ?
you have fax number ??
seagull ·
its metal work micro regulators an ss check valves ect I do them
Alex Holzl ·
yeh its 9702 5277 send when i got offline coz its the same as the internet line
seagull ·
I do it from work 30th alex
Alex Holzl ·
ok sweeet cheers mate... what you mean by boost control?
seagull ·
I going to do my toyota in the next week * i hope * time is all I need and a new diff as I can not keep in in a straight line , and some new rubber as there is not a lot left on them hee hee
Alex Holzl ·
hahah bugga
seagull ·
You will see 🙂 if you dont sell 10 sets to the turbo guys i will be very supprised .I sold 23 in one day as far away as darwin .
Alex Holzl ·
hahha yeh sweet
seagull ·
after talking to chopper over here tonight his turbo notch needs this fitted to make it more driveable .
Alex Holzl ·
wat exatly does it do? is it just for adjusting the boost up and down
seagull ·
in an nut shell it allows you to SET how quickly you would like the boost to come on .This is as well how heigh it goes and to stop wast gate creep to 0.
I have one guy that buys these this is all he does all day this mod to cars .
Alex Holzl ·
oh i see now yeh sound like it would be good for drivability... must sleep speck to you later
seagull ·
good night
Craig Paton ·
My apologies for not replying sooner to all, servo went nuts.
Too bloody cold up here in Toowoomba!!
I have a '68 beetle with a 2.3 with ida's
Cheers Craig P.
fullnoise ·
Seagull and Alex - for Christ sake just pick up the phone and speak to each other. Reading this post was like reading a transcript from the world's most boring conversation competition.
> Don't you think?
> Why yes I do.
> You finishing this post now?
> Yeah I think so.
>Bye
> CYA
>CT
>:jesus
Jeza ·
fullnoise wrote:Seagull and Alex - for Christ sake just pick up the phone and speak to each other.
One word - messenger!!!
Alex has got it - Seagull hasn't listed his.
I agree with you CT. It really thins out the useful info in these posts and doesn't need to be recorded / archived.
Cheers
Jeremy
boof2332 ·
Hey Guys,
Speaking of horsepower per engine size..
I was over at young Steve Natoli's the other week and he showed me the dyno results for his 2007cc IDA powered bug.
138hp at cbb and was running lean at the top end..... Is hoping for about 142 with proper jetting.
Matt
Alex Holzl ·
yeh stevos cars in a MACHINE alright!!! it move quick... that was the motor out of my car... sound awsome with straight cut cams gears..
fullnoise ·
Steve wins the horse power per litre at the rear wheel challenge. His 2007 makes a stomping 68.8.
Troy's 1916 is second with 63.2.
That's pretty damn good if you convert it back to flywheel horsepower. These old lawn mowers can be pretty efficient.
CYA CT
boof2332 ·
Hey Alex,
It was injected when you had it... Is that the injection you have on the new motor?
I may have found a micro tech system with 50 mm throttle bodies, I have to check it out.
I also spoke to Darren Gurrola about some of his heads this morning...designed for 175-200hp... dont ask me the cost!!!!! Heads is where the power is, so I will order them tomorrow.
Hey who was it that had 153hp a little while ago? and what makes the difference between something like jak's car and 153hp car, if i remember they seem similar in specs at a glance?
Alex Holzl ·
yeh mine still fuel injection with 50 mm throttle bodies. compression makes a dif and fuel you run it on..
boof2332 ·
Heads are a pretty big factor.
Matt
Doug Sweetman ·
No CT, Dave Beckers is second with 66 hp/l (2176cc 143.6hp).
I think his chart was posted after your post in this thread though....
Jak Rizzo ·
BiX wrote:Hey who was it that had 153hp a little while ago? and what makes the difference between something like jak's car and 153hp car, if i remember they seem similar in specs at a glance?
Heads , compression & cam duration.
Jak
Craig Torrens ·
Jak Rizzo wrote:
BiX wrote:Hey who was it that had 153hp a little while ago? and what makes the difference between something like jak's car and 153hp car, if i remember they seem similar in specs at a glance?
Heads , compression & cam duration.
Jak
And a stinger...which gave about 20hp on the dyno.
And it was 143hp, that's if we are talking about Daves car.
fullnoise ·
Hi Yall,
When Alex posted his results some people said, Gee I thought an engine that size would make more power. At that point I figured that his engine sounds big at 2332 but it is really only 22% bigger than my 1916. So to see how the two compared I divided the horse power by the engine size. I moved the decimal point up 3 places to get HP per litre rather than per cubic centimeter.
That led to the following which I think is damn interesting.
Steve 2007 68.8 HP per litre at the rear wheels (big $ berg heads)
Dave Becker 2174 66.1 " (street eliminators - ported and polished locally)
Troy 1916 63.2 " (p & p or cnc roundport 044s)
Alex 2332 58.4 " (street eliminators p & p locally)
Craig 1916 57.9 (street eliminators p & p by CB)
That leads me to believe the old saying that the power is in the heads. Those engines are many different cams, compression ratios and capacities there.
What do others think?
Sorry if this is too constructive and not abusive and petty.
CYA CT
Craig Paton ·
What are the compression ratio's of all of these engines????
What carby's do they all run??
What muffler systems did these engines have at the time of the dyno??
What fuels did these engines use at the time on the dyno??
What is the purpose of the car?? [daily driver, hillclimber,hot street or strip]
And finally how fresh were these engines when they were dyno'd??????????
Cheers Craig Paton.:blah
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by Craig Paton]
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by Craig Paton]
Craig Torrens ·
good comparison CT.
.........but it really comes down to the combo suited for the end use.
Take my combination/engine for example........... If I leave my motor exactly the same but only change the cam.........to say a fk89 (great HP cam for Drags) my engine would produce a lot more than what it has now. The down side would be that I loose the out of corner grunt and rev range I now have for hillclimb.
Instead of looking at the heads, what cam do the top two use.............FK89...best for peak HP.
It still gets back to the combination, I would be surprised if you can just narrow it down to heads........................although I may have a set of Eliminators for sale !!!(spare set, not off my motor!
😉)
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by Craig Torrens]
fullnoise ·
Fair point Craig. Perhaps then, a level playing field could be created by creating another hp and torque curve where each figure is divided by the engine size.
Then you could even chime in with a bang for your bucks index.
I bet the dyno dynamics software could build curves that show horsepower per litre at each rpm.
CYA CT :blah
waltermitty ·
Hey Alex , was Dieter still priming the throttle bodies with a Coke bottle on the dyno?
Nice to see you got the beast running. I am sure there is more HP to come from this little number.
Mitchell
Alex Holzl ·
hahaha no we found out that the computer runs throw the taco to sence when the motor is cranking so it can give the right amount of fuel..
alex
seagull ·
bump for 71 super
Peter Leonard ·
You should only use tacos if you're running a mexican case. I find burritos are also far too squishy for fuel injection setups 😀