Just wondering if anyone has ever done a rotary conversion?
It will be going into my off road buggy (think sand-rail)
A mate of mine is swapping his 20,000km old 12A rotary out of his RX-7 for a turbo charged 13B.
He is selling it to me for $250, which i think is an unreal price!
so anyway the adaptor plate will not be hard but what do you all reckon it will go like?
my thoughts are that it will go like a bat out of hell! i was originally going to run a VW 1600 twin port, but it only has about 40kw compared to the 85kw that this mazda rotary is supposed to have...
i have driven the RX-7 with this motor in it and it goes well in the car, so should go even better in my lighter buggy...
anyone got any comments or info or advice lol??
Alex Holzl ·
It has been done.. it will definatly go better than a 1600...
seagull ·
good untill you blow the gear box up ,need a good clutch puck unit I made them at one time .
you may find an adapter plate here just ask in the for sale section read the guide lines first
Jenny ·
Plenty of VW based kit cars (Eurekas) with rotary engines, but the engines don't seem to last though...
Later EFI rotaries last longer than the earlier carby ones. Like all things their life depends on how modified they are and how you drive it.
13Beetle ·
Hello Guys, I'm well underway with my 13b turbo conversion, i've converted my pan to irs, motor is bolted to g'box and mounted on pan. All going well so far. It also fits in the engine bay without any cutting to the body.
lobus ·
There was also a bloke a t Valla with a Black bay Kombi.
Totally wild is gettin somwhere near it.
Rotary motor of some sort with 300+bhp at the wheels.
(I'm a completely converted metric head but you just can't beat the 300bhp tag)
As a bit of trivia, the first of the 350cubic inch monaros were 300bhp in about 1969. The first Falcon GT HOs were similar but I think ford went all shy and didn't disclose the exact amount.
So that many rampaging horses at the back of your Kombi would be more than a lot interesting.
1303Steve ·
13Beetle wrote:Hello Guys, I'm well underway with my 13b turbo conversion, i've converted my pan to irs, motor is bolted to g'box and mounted on pan. All going well so far. It also fits in the engine bay without any cutting to the body.
Hi
I dont want to be a wet blanket, but have you spoken to your local rego people about this? In NSW & Qld you cant get a turbo rotary passed by them.
1302Steve
Baja Wes ·
Steve is right, I really can't see it being legal. a 13B turbo is classed as a 2.6L turbo for engine conversion purposes, which is too big for a beetle.
The kombi has a 13B turbo with 350HP at the rear wheels, but it comes under a completely different set of rules, being a kombi and all.
This is essentially the light vehicle rules for QLD and nsw, most other states are similar.
13Beetle ·
Hi Guys, I got an approval in principal from Transport SA. They stipulate that i need an engineers report, including brake fade tests, lane change manouver, Dyno results for motor, and ridigity test. I've got an engineer in Adelaide who is happy to help me achieve this. Brakes continue to be the biggest black area, I've got type 3 all around at the moment, but the falcon rear disk set up sounds like the go.
1303Steve ·
Hi
Good on you, I just would hate to see go to a heap of work for nothing. This approval is vastly different for you guys in SA, than in the Eastern states, 1/2 your luck.
13o2Steve
Baja Wes ·
well I'll be...
We'll have to call SA the land of the 13B turbo beetles from now on 😀
When we finally get australia wide rules the confusion will end 🙂
71superbug ·
hmmmm wat are SA rules like compared to wa? 🙁. maybe i should move over there and do conversion. then move back over here 🙂
1303Steve ·
Hi
Sorry about hijaking your post Southern Cross.
1302Steve
Klaus ·
hey Southern cross I'm part the way thru doing the conversion into my 71 bug good to see someone else is attempting it.
Give John sherman a call as he does the kit for this conversion, #07 5537 7770.
do it.... when th e 12a' sgot about 130 hp standard and revs to 9000rpm you wont be able to stop giggling
:P
ROTORBUG ·
I have converted my 69 baja to 13b turbo power and i cant believe how the thing flies.
humpty ·
Remeber guys...I think the man said, this is a 12A going into a sandrail....I don't believe the cars a road car! Do what you want man....Should be a mover and shaker (ne: breaker)!
Post some pics.
That bus we hear all about...Has anyone actually seen it run? I't love to see it in action! It would give me some idea what to ecpect from my EG33!
condor ·
i am new to rotary power, turbo 13btype 3 condor am totally amazed at the torque and the way it revs.has been totally reliable so far.i think they are a better proposition than the ever popular subie motor
pete wood ·
go the rotor, at $250 you can't go wrong :thumb
71superbug ·
250 bucks for a rotor?
maybe a busted one 🙂
Anthony
Baja Wes ·
Aaron's 20B turbo black bus
Baja Wes ·
and the motor :duh
with large turbo down on the left :thumb
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
I know aaron and he said that he's 20b is like driving a blown v8, cruz along at 40km in 2nd stand on it and you have a portable smoke screen and it sounds mean !!
FATBUG ·
Does anyone know if a Standard 12A is legal in a 70' model beetle. (in NSW)?????
71superbug ·
yeah should be.
Anthony
fozee ·
The 20B is a lovely fit.
I wanted to do this conversion back in 02 but people told me i was mad and the price of half cuts was a little beyond me then.
If the 1UZFE gets too hard, 20B will be the way ill go.
FATBUG ·
a 20B is legal in them?
71superbug ·
well. fatbug. im not sure about SA but im pretty sure its the same as WA.
we over in the west here have no restrictions as to what motor can go in what vehicle. as long as the rest of the car is built to take it it can be passed. not like you unlucky lot with your whole cc to weight bullshit 🙂.
which is why i have planned 13bt rotary into 71super. it is classed as a 2.6litre turbo for some rediculous reason. making it illegal in other states.
Anthony
theverybigtallman ·
how much does a standard dub weigh?
Baja Wes ·
in QLD a kombi passes as a commercial vehicle, and therefore isn't covered by the code of practice for light vehicle modification.
Commercial vehicles as somewhat unrestricted in engine size, hence the 20B and V8 kombi's.
71superbug ·
i know my 71super weighs 870 standard
Anthony
London Bugger ·
wow
Aarons Kombi is awesome any one got any more pictures of it or has he got a website? I would love to have pop out windows like that on my kombi!
Rob.
subaru.freak ·
Sorry I've come in a bit late in this thread, my advice could have been more timely...
Anything can be registerd, and nothing is "illegal". It is not against criminal law to drive a rotary powered bug. It will not however comply to ADRs as a bug...
In NSW you will need to get it registered as an ICV, or individually constructed vehicle. This involves stringent engineering tests, stuff like tortional rigidity and the like, as well as some pretty easy 1st year mech eng calculations.
Make a booking with an automotive engineer, talk through your plans with him (costs less than a dentist!) and then make your decisions. It'll be the best money you'll ever spend on the project.
ILLEGAL is a very strong word...
VWCOOL ·
13Beetle wrote:Hi Guys, I got an approval in principal from Transport SA. They stipulate that i need an engineers report, including brake fade tests, lane change manouver, Dyno results for motor, and ridigity test. I've got an engineer in Adelaide who is happy to help me achieve this. Brakes continue to be the biggest black area, I've got type 3 all around at the moment, but the falcon rear disk set up sounds like the go.
Engine trandplants is one of the reasons why I am developing/manufacturing a big ventilated front brake kit for Beetles. See my thread 'big brakes for Beetles' for more info and some pics of what I am doing.
Slightly off-topic... I don't "get" the rigidity test...?
VWCOOL ·
subaru.freak wrote:Sorry I've come in a bit late in this thread, my advice could have been more timely...
Anything can be registerd, and nothing is "illegal". It is not against criminal law to drive a rotary powered bug. It will not however comply to ADRs as a bug...
In NSW you will need to get it registered as an ICV, or individually constructed vehicle. This involves stringent engineering tests, stuff like tortional rigidity and the like, as well as some pretty easy 1st year mech eng calculations.
Make a booking with an automotive engineer, talk through your plans with him (costs less than a dentist!) and then make your decisions. It'll be the best money you'll ever spend on the project.
ILLEGAL is a very strong word...
No, no, no.. it doesn't have to be an ICV! Just an engine transplant with engineering certification. But yes yes yes, ask lots of questions, buy a copy of the Code of Practice for Light Vehilce Modifications for your state and talk to an engineer before you begin work www.streetmachine.com.au
"Find Engineer"
[Edited on 31/3/2005 by VWCOOL]
subaru.freak ·
Just competed 455ci Buick in a floppy VN Commodore = ICV
VWCOOL ·
subaru.freak wrote:Just competed 455ci Buick in a floppy VN Commodore = ICV
That's different - it's not an ADR 37 compatible Australian market engine. Think HQ with a VP V6 in it... or likewise
A VN... how the F* did you demonstrate compliance with current crash protection ADRs for ICV?! Or did you retro-fit VS airbags?
[Edited on 31/3/2005 by VWCOOL]
Herbie ·
Herbie Runs a standard 12A at the moment,
Although I have had dramas getting the 43 year old accelerator pedal mecanism to reach full throttle, or even close, it is by far a big improvement over the 1200 I took out, {That possibly wasnt getting full throtle either.}
Its great to see the look on peoples faces when they see Herbie doing over 160 klms, and I guess they think the expression on my face is equally amusing when they pull up at the lights and I just cant.
By the way, that only happened twice when I first did the conversion, since then I learned to settle down or die.
Mine is perfectly legal in Queensland, and I would expect also in N.S.W.
but a 13b is too big according to the rules and a turbo on either would also break the cc/weight restictions,
However you can restamp a 13b to say 10A and then Turbo Charge that baby.:thumb
But you would want to sort the brakes and maybe fing a serious gearbox probably from a porsche, On my next trip over to the states I think I will buy a 911 porsche wreck and bring it home, I've seen plenty over there in the wrecking yards, they pile them up with the Mercedes, its a totally different attitude to european sports cars over there.
I can then proceed to graft the running gear under the bug/Kombie.
Definately go to ZENJOE's website, if for nothing more than inspiration.
My kitt is a sherman engineering kit and is a real early one too, it uses the rotary starter motor , Flywheel and clutch. which gives me a strong cheap clutch setup but because it moves the engine a few inches back I cant run an electronic distributor under the standard decklid as its too tall and fouls, so I am running a points distributor, I will set up a crank angle sensor oneday but its a low priority at this point. Ironing out the cooling system is my main challenge at the moment, I think I have a tiny pihole leak that is reaking havoc.
If you are putting the setup into an off road bug you wont have these sort of troubles.
Email me at "info at anthonyvoevodin dot com" <- {I do that to avoid bots sending me spam.} if you have any questions, I may be able to help.
If the engine your friend sells you is only 20000klms old and is built properly you should be fine, however same as anything, an old motor wont last as long as a new motor and rotarys have a habit of running fine right up till their final day and then they die, no major indication of their wearyness, but its all about fresh motors and treat them like you are not trying to rev them to oblivion, despite popular theory they dont really like it, and wont put up with it forever.
A turbo rotary doesnt need to rev that hard to create all the power you can get to the ground and for so many reasons are a better idea all round.
Make sure its tuned properly so it doesn't lean out, They are quite intollerant of that, and then just set up water/alcohol injection and raise you boost as high as you turbo can feed it and then try to hold on tight.
Lots of fun.
subaru.freak ·
It wasn't actually me who built it, a friend who's been in the game for a few years, although I did a bit of work on it and it's hell dodgee.
I do know it runs BBQ juice to stay emissions compliant, and from what I can gather re: the rest of the certification, sometimes it's not what you know but who you know.
VWENVY ·
Sounds like that baby might just rip itself clean off its mounts and out the side of the floppy VN!! woohoo :P
Why not just strap a jet engine to its lid! its been done before with great effect, or is that impact!! :duh
VWCOOL ·
subaru.freak wrote:It wasn't actually me who built it, a friend who's been in the game for a few years, although I did a bit of work on it and it's hell dodgee.
I do know it runs BBQ juice to stay emissions compliant, and from what I can gather re: the rest of the certification, sometimes it's not what you know but who you know.
Hmmm no offence, but it's sh*t like that, that pisses me off! No wonder the states won't agree on the Uniform National CoP that has been doing the rounds since 1995!!!!....😠
[Edited on 31/3/2005 by VWCOOL]
Herbie ·
I tried that, see pic!
subaru.freak ·
Hmmm no offence, but it's sh*t like that, that pisses me off!
None taken, fact is though that seems to be the way it works most of the time. Could be worse though.
But dodgee Commodores weren't really what I was getting at. Fact is that YES you can put a rotary in your Bug, but there's rules to follow and tests that have to be conducted.
Unless you happen to find a dodgee engineer. Send me a PM and I'll give you his number (just to piss off VWCOOL).
Herbie...thats just ridiculous!!:jesus
Clearly some of those hubcaps will pop off under the strain, and for what...5 seconds of uncontrolled warp speed ending in oblivion!! They should be removed first!! :duh:duh
VWCOOL ·
VNs don't have hubcaps.... they all fell off years ago!
VWENVY ·
Not VN - click on the pic in Herbies last post!😉
13Beetle ·
G'day guys, It's been a long time. Due to circumstance I'm
having to sell, all the gear I've purchased for my 13BT conversion.
I have a Sherman Adaptor Plate and Flywheel.
Gas Research Carby to replace the throttle body on a 13bt, hence not having to run catylatic converter, fuel injection etc. (Making It regeristable in SA)
Also for sale a 13bt Series 4 (Import Motor)