A while ago, it loosened up, giving no fan or alternator drive torque. DOH! So, I tighten it up nice and neat, and everythings apples again!
Today, same thing happens, and my tools are at home because of the reno's. Luckily, I notice about 2 minutes drive from home, take the punt and get it home.
This time, I tighten it up, and go for one more turn when snap blammo, it's sheared off inside (plus a lovely crunchy squisho on the old fingernail). Anyone got a tip for me to get the sucker out? I don't have welding gear or anything BTW.
Taa!
barls ·
use an easy out mate you get them at most tool places
vwombat ·
Taa Mate! Thanks for the advice over on the other thread. I'll go get one tomorrow, and go gentler next time!
barls ·
yeah im also a big fan of brute force and ignorance, but some time you have to be careful not to over do it 🙂
Chewy ·
Torx bits make good E-Z outs..
Good luck
vwombat ·
Taa!
OZ Towdster ·
vwombat the fan should have a moon key or for the tech term a woodruf key between the fan and crank ,as from what your saying i would suspect this is missing or brocken. You will need to remove the fan and fan hub of crank to check this and i would reckomend replacing the seal at the same time because sure as apple fall it will leak soon if you don't. Andrew
OZ Towdster ·
PS be carefull you don't break any high tensile hardened tool in there or you are in deep deep dodo's
vwombat ·
Here are the pics. You can see the sheared bolt in the middle. Does it look like somethings missing i.e. Moon or Woodruf keys? According to my manuals it doesn't (but they all use similar diagrams).
Taa for the help!
Martin.
vwombat ·
EZ Outs my arse!!!
I tried gentle, and the tip ripped off anyway!!!
Now I am officially pissed off!
11CAB ·
There is a woodruf key in the tapered section of the crank to locate the hub, have a look in the hub and you should see the groove cut into it for the key to engage.
But, the woodruf key does not stop the hub spinning around, the taper on the crank and the bolt hold it in place, the key is just to locate it.
68AutoBug ·
I might be too late...
You need to know how to use ezY outs.... properly....
I didn't and snapped one off in a head stud.... had to replace the head as the ezi outs were too hard for any drill to touch... I even bought titanium drill bits..
From what I now know... You drill a hole in the snapped off piece only slightly smaller than the snapped off bolt...
I just drilled a hole and snap.....
They should also be called EZY Breaks too...
the EZY outs are made to take the thread and a very small piece of the bolt... You just don't drill a hole , stick one in and whamo.. You end up in bigger trouble...
Why didn't You fellows tell VWWombat how to use the EZY OUT... properly ????
Any one can say Yeah Use an eZY OUT.... but there is a lot more to it that wasn't said...
If You don't know how to do something - telling only Half the story has this fellow in BIG Trouble.... Now tell Him how to fix the problem....
vwombat ·
Taa Lee - I only snapped about 3 mm off, so I'm hoping the situation is salvagable. Good to know about the size though. I still have the bigger one intact, so I'm hoping things will go better next time (this arvo).
vwombat ·
By the way - good to see you back on Lee! Were you naughty at Valla with those opinions of yours? It's good to see that forum ugliness has died down a bit. Let's get back into the important stuff!
BTW - it's Martin - but you can call me ignoramus!
[Edited on 26-8-2004 by vwombat]
barls ·
im sorry if i didnt give enough info but thats all i know about them and lee i gave all the info i had in an attempt to help so dont bag me for it i noticed that you were on line at the time i posted it and didnt offer any so get off my case.
vwombat ·
It's O.K. Barls - you were a great help! Thanks again!
barls ·
not a problem mate did you end up getting it out
vwombat ·
Not yet - I'm off to hire a right angle drill so that I can do a better job. I didn't want to drop out the engine for this rubbish job.
barls ·
yeah i used one at my old mans but he has just about every tool i need good luck mate
vwombat ·
Thanks - I just did a plug for him over in chitchat.
barls ·
yeah i saw thanks mate
[Edited on 26-8-2004 by barls]
vwombat ·
Bought a new viper drill bit for the job. It turns and turns and makes the hole look nice and shiny, but it aint gettin' any deeper. Any tips for drill bits? The Drill has to go back tomorrow at 3pm BTW...
fetid_swamp ·
sharpen & resharpen the bit and use some inox or crc or something to keep it cool & cutting ????
vwombat ·
I found cobalt drills as a tip on another site. I might give one of these a go!
pod ·
yeah cobalts good for harder mat`l and stainless steel point is sharpened different to your normal drill 😎
pod ·
and dont lubricate a cobalt drill or will crack up the surface of the drill then your stuffed again😉
vwombat ·
Are the titanium's better? Does the bit of oil and crc that's on there cause a problem with cobalt bits?
Taa for the help Guys! And BTW I kept the other one lubricated - just made the sheen prettier! Doh!
pod ·
cobalts better and no lube the packet sort of explains it
pod ·
the cobalt is a coating same as titanium ones
vwombat ·
Thanks Mate! Off to Bunnings first thing!
pod ·
if they havent got them try an engineering supplies like blackwoods🙂
vwombat ·
Will have to search for one up here. Evidently Bunnings supply Sutton cobalts. I'll give 'em a ring tomorrow. Thanks for your help again!
vwombat ·
Found a blackwoods just down the road from the Bunnings! Good tips always appreciated. Muchos Gracias!
Desert Moose ·
Start with a small drill then work up to the big one. It dosen't matter how good the drill is if you start big🙂
vwombat ·
Thanks Moose. As ignorant as I am, I still knew that one. Thanks anyway.
Off to get my cobalts soon!
vwombat ·
Hi Guys - got the cobalts! And the success rate - 0!
I've been drilling for hours without much luck - (3mm).
A mobile mechanic told me that he only uses - get this: Masonry bits on hardened steel. I gave that a crack in my frustration, and it worked better than the cobalts. Stupidly, the drill has to go back NOW and I'm still not far enough in.
What do you guys do with that pent up frustration when crap like this happens???
barls ·
go and blow something up ok maybe not but it works at my work
vwombat ·
BTW the Woodruf was stuffed as you said 11cab - good call. I didn't know of the terms for this part, and was looking for something completely different. Thanks to Sand Kombi (Michael) for setting me straight!
barls ·
got my old man here looking at the pics and he reckons that krossthreads in newcastle have disintergrator drill bits which will drill broken taps, easyouts etc. they are pricey but they work. he also thinks that you may have to replace the crank due to wear cause by the loose fan.
vwombat ·
Aaaaaaargh! Actually, the crank looks O.K. but the Woodruff looks nasty. I'd need a professional opinion of course!
I finally got through the EZY out piece with about 3 hours drilling, swapping cobalt with masonry and back again. Then life got a whole lot easier. The problem was, I couldn't see enough what I was doing. Eventually, I got out the digicam, took a snap with the flash on, and blew it up on the computer. You could see the differences between the bolt metal, and the EZY out. That 3mm almost killed me. So, the new EZy out is in, but it is turning the crank. I'm gonna go and put it in gear and see what happens soon.
Do you reckon I should start the engine up for a while to make the crank warm before trying again?
VolksFolks ·
should of bought my motor, would of been a quicker job, i removed and replaced a motor yesterday in 2 1/2 hours on my own, was not east from the ground up,
as for yours tintin i would not warm it up do it cold, in gear with handbreak on, good look and mind those knuckles eh
my the gods be with you dude lol
Andy
vwombat ·
Thanks Andy! I'm starting to pray - a strange thing for a Zen buddhist to do!
barls ·
id say no to warming the engine due to the possibility of oil spewing out the hole and there is no cooling for the cylinders
vwombat ·
Where would I be without you guys? Thanks for the tips. Maybe I'll know what I'm doing one day (though at this rate - that's a long way off).
barls ·
you would of had to find a vw mechanic a lomg time ago
vwombat ·
I'm officially stuffed! I would've taken this problem to a mechanic if I'd been mobile, and not overheated the engine getting there. It seemed like such a simple problem to fix, and I've mutilated it. The EZY out went in fine, but then a bit of the bolt broke out. The hole is no longer centred, and the EZY out can now only contact part of the bolt, and part of the crank thread i.e. it aint goin' nowhere, and the thread will be ruined!
Feel free to laugh guys. Hopefully someone else will learn something from this? I sure have. A mobile mechanic I talked to yesterday said he would've done the job for around $100. Mobile mechanic - what a novel idea! I've really gotta get over myself!
barls ·
my old mans advice is to with a small rotary burr ie a dremel bit grind the bolt away opposite where the thread is showing until you come to the top of the thread you should be able to prise the bolt section away from the thread in the shaft. this will take a fair bit of patience as you dont want to damage the crank thread. when you have it out you then run a 8mm tap into the thread to clean it.
vwombat ·
Thanks Mate. I don't know if I'm that game or stupid anymore?
Don't you just reach that point when you've already sunk such energy into the thing that you cant give up - even if you make the situation worse?
God I hate myself sometimes!
tassupervee ·
Barls suggestion is a very good one.
This is probably the last resort for what you can do by your self. Failing that, the next step is getting the remains of the bolt "disintegrated".
Its a process that uses a power supply not unlike a welder but uses a hollow needle and water as a coolant and the needle is progressively fed into the remains of the bolt and the power supply does its work and the bolt is disintegrated along with the needle.
There is no heat damage to surrounding areas. I have seen this process in action and there is virtually no damage to surrounding threads.
it usually only takes a couplke of minutes.
The thread can then be cleaned up with a plug tap and hopefully off you go.
I cannot remember the businesses name but the "hook" line was:
"What the heli-coil's a disintegrator?"
These guys do it mobile.
best of luck.
L8tr
E
1303Steve ·
Hi
In most cases like this where the bolt has just broken I've found that you can get the broken bit out by tapping it around and unscrewing it with a centre punch. wombat I feel you pain, what a nasty mess.
Steve
tassupervee ·
Correct, but, thing is with this one he has busted an eziout already.
I wonder if the retaining bolt is thread bound in the crank?
This could explain why the eziout broke. Given he has alreadt tightened it a couple of times recently there is no reason the broken bolt would be difficult to remove due to the likes of rust.
Im with you tho, I feel his pain..................
1303Steve ·
Hi Tass
I understood about the broken easyout, the centre punch method is my 1st method. I've had better success with the square shank easyouts than the twist ones. Maybe with the wear or a non standard bolt its bottomed out.
Steve
seagull ·
Ok been stuck like this before .
I made a * case hard * drill guide this fits over the crank like a hub , it has a hole were you fit the drill bit into ( center ) and its long to guide the drill all the way .
I all ways use masonary drills , they can be sharpen to suit the angle required , you would need to feed the drill bit in from the crank end of the guide as the head ( tip ) of the drill is bigger then the shank .
get some triflex green cuting past .
vwombat ·
Thanks guys - this is really helpful. This topic should be a FAQ I reckon!
I got the EZY out chunk out of the Bolt with 3 hours of drilling, swapping Masonry for cobalt and back again. The only problem is that I now have a non centred hole. A mechanic is coming out on Wednesday to have a crack - 'cause I've got the FEAR now!
I thought that this would be so easy, but NO! DOH!