Who are ya gonna vote for?

none of the bastards ----bloody theiving, lying ,self indulgent pricks:beer

The Greens and the Democrats have got NOTHIN'

Vote labor if ya don't work hard

I don't vote. You can't complain if you're complicit in the sham.

It doesn't matter who you vote for anyway - the only interests that are represented are multinationals and multi-millionaires...

its going to be my first vote...have no idea who to vote for... dislike them all...guess its just about keeping the worse one out!

Remember Fekin GST

I do! all $29.000 of the fekker they want from me, 50% is a fine, i never had any bill but fined me for not paying, dont figure..

I canna vote as not a citizen, only a resident at the mo, but the little puppet Howard is not my xmas card list put it that way..

I rekon the aussie's deserve a change 'new blood'

my 2 cents worth



Andy

56astro wrote:The Greens and the Democrats have got NOTHIN'

Vote labor if ya don't work hard

I work hard, and hate the fact that I am subsidising Bludgers I will vote Liberal as I want to be a "Rich Prick" one day

.

labor......pistol packin latham is my man for the next few years, i just dont trust the howard/costello regime........latham may be obnoxious and stupid at times but hes got character and zeal, unlike howard the "ass kisser".....
hahaha

I am goung with "Airfooled"
Latham is going get my vote .....for what it is worth !
Piss Howard off
He has done enough damage

Thats sounds like real good logic??????

i dont like howard personally....yes he is smarter i reckon the latham and more diplomatic, but i think he is also a bit gutless and stuck up. i dont like costello full stop, their is nothing good i can say about the man apart from his occasional sense of humour. latham on the other hand has an eagerness about him to get things changed, hes got guts to rule australia as its own entity, not an english offspring or usa's lackey. hes not the smartest man but since when is the smartest leader the best one?? thats why they have ministers and god knows how many assistants or so to confer with, but he is by no means stupid either....

Howard Hasn't done a Bad Job....
Its still the Best country in the World....

Liberal / Country Party Coalition will get My Vote again...

Howard has kept the lid on Inflation so far....

Fuel Tax has to be cut -- Fuel is just getting too expensive and it causes EVERYTHING to be more expensive....

as everything has to be carried by a TRUCK ......

think back to the last Labor government. I will vote Liberal. I also like Howards ethical and moral stance.

mark will get my vote, he`s a down to earth westie ,WESTIES RULE!!!!!!😉

u know i rekon the best thing that could ever happen is for these scumbags to call an election and the whole of AUS refuse to vote as a show of defiance and signal of the depth of disgust most people have about polititians, it was always accepted that used car salesmen were on the lowest rung of the human ladder followed closely by insurance salesmen but these lying backstabbing mongrels that have now slithered into canberra are way lower than any of these fine professions and generally lower than squashed dog shit the best thing to give them is an ultimatim ---- perform or each day one of you will face a firing squad ,god knows the arseholes in there now certainly deserve it

Howard has kept the lid on Inflation so far....

I love this time of the parliamentary farce. Political and economic naivity rules supreme.

The fiscal policies of the government of the day do bugger all to the Australian economy in the global landscape. Not to mention that the "labor" party's fiscal policy is as right wing as the moderate conservatives...

Australia's highest ever interest rates were under the Fraser conservative government. The much complained about rates during Cheating's (sorry, Keating's) treasury were a full 2% lower than the US rates at the time. Compare that to now where our rates are 2.5% higher! National debt was lower under the Whitlam gov than present even with the harsher external forces experienced in the late 60s thru to the mid 70s. Inflation slowed among Australia's scale economies at the same time as ours and ours will increase at the same rate as thiers regardless of the gov of the day and their fiscal policy.
Our economy booms and drops at te same time as the greater developed world.

It doesn't matter who you vote for or if you bother to vote for those missrepresentative puppets at all, Australia's future lays in machinations of global economics.

Like the old bastards say - "If it changed anything, it'd be illegal."

Voting in a system where MPs represent a party is like protesting for bigger cages and longer chains.

Hey.....always to the left.....Voted Democrates once only in a protest.....and bloody little Johnny got in....never gunna do that again....my labour vote may have saved us.....

Goodness the man put me to sleep the other night on the 7.30 report... :jesus

A bit like a lot of people...they are all pretty much the same these daus....no real polotics...or anything new...too busy bagging each other...true Aussie political crap.... No great ideas for the country so bring out the dirt on the opposition...

We do need someone who can stop the great divide in this country...between the haves and have nots... We have some serious problems here....

Environment is another one....but the politicians know that's a big issue..and brings in the tourist $$$$$ if we maintain some pristine environments....A written fact....

Our politics are controlled by overseas political and financial interests anyway....

Hmmmm.....can you tell I studied Sociology...I'm a born cynic through and through...don't trust any of the bastards

Was bought up in a very labour, union orientated household....and love Marx not Marxism...

....OK my 2c worth

I don't think my vote counts 'cuz I can't vote, so take 1 away from the Labor total.


John Howard is a snot-nosed, half-arsed, dimwitted, pea-brained, knob-jockey.

i hate little johnny!!
and will not vote for him
but there is not much else around??

May i concur with HotRod Matt. Inflation is mostly controlled by the Reserve bank which operates as an independent entity from the government. anyway, a first world country such as this should have no problem maintaining economic stability. I would suggest that we should expect much better results in GDP and standards of living. The bureacracy manages itself in terms of fiscal implementation, so the government can kiss my arse if they reckon they've done such a great job, 'cuz its gonna cost me sh*tloads to go to Uni next year Mr. Howard.

thats bullshit about hecs fees!!! dont get me started!!!

ooooh, c'mon, try me. I know that they don't have to be paid off for many years, but the howard government has spent twice as much on private schools as it has on universities and public schools.

well its true aint it? are any of you aware of Howards "Flag in every school" stunt. He claimed that its un-Australian to not have an Aussie flag i a school, and that the government will make sure every school has one. However, in March this year, I contacted local member Peter Dutton MP. (liberal) asking for a flag for our school hall. It took him 4 months to respond and we only got it last week. What a knob. This governemnt lied to the Australian people, and although this is not a first, nor will it be the last, in Aussie history, it is insulting to the Aussie people. If you want my vote howard you can look in my arse 'cuz thats where i'd keep a vote for you, ya dirty prick.

hahahahahahhaha, go get em youngster!!! yeah still payin off my hecs, should nearly be done after i submit my tax!! wooohoo!!!

You may be able to tell that i have been raised in a very left-winged household. I plan on getting into politics someday, will you vote for me. Tax rebates will be made in chocolate and VW drivers get free stuff, like money and cats and footy tickets. yay.

i'd love to get into politics one day but i fear i'd go nuts and clock some lying wan#er politician in a fit or rage and get myself incarcirated or something......hahahaha, i'm waaaaaaay too honest to play that type of bull#hit games they do..... yeah i'd only vote for you for the free cats, now thats what i'm talkin about!!!! hahaha. what is with that man!!!??? free cats hahahaha....

Unfortunately we a first world country let our manufacturing industry die....union demands ansd wages killed it in the eyes of the operators...and we where all looking at top of the rung employment....uni educations at an affordable rate back in the 90's...... Primary resources where shipped over seas to be sent back as a whole product.....our manufacturing industries did not keep up with the advances in technology and now it would cost an arm and a leg to ever get it back on track...we now import so much!! It's a crime....Then we privatised everything...another crijme...how can we ever afford to own ourt own stuff?

We follow the lead of the US of A too much...and not the countries that sustain a healthy economy...

Our population is another consideration....I've visited so amny countries where 1 city has the population of the whole of Australia..... we just don't have the work force....and immigrants that do come here are often of a high economic status back home...they are educated and work hard to make sure their kids get the best opportunities to succeed in professions once here.....They have a totally different mind set to us....

I was studying a double major at uni part time off-campus...working raising a family....going great....Then we had a change in governement....standard of the educatation an availablility of fadculty support crashes....I couldn't contact anyone when I needed to ask questions...on campus tut's were almost non-existant....We were basically left on our own to read books...hand in assignements...and sit the same exams as those who were studying on campus...No peer support .... buggar .... Uni staffing levels were so cut...... it's not their fault it was the government.....

We are now filling our tertiary education facilities with overseas students because they have the money to keep this places operating...not our government.....

Hey...I've studied with overseas students and love them...I love working with them and sharing ideas.....my sons GF is Danish and here to study...It's not them...it's our system!!!

Good luck with paying your HECS.......it's so expensive to study now...my kids have all worked since 15...all through school and uni....they know what a $ is worth.....

[Edited on 4-9-2004 by jenz58]

Well first of all schools. The media hypes up the fact that the federal government gives more to private schools. You want to know why they do? cause the state governments give em nothing. State schools are payed for by the state and the federal. So in fact the government as a whole give about the same, and if parents want to put more money into there childs school so it is better, good on em. BTW i went to a state school.

Now HECS.
I am a UNI student and it is interesting to see posters put up by the hippies around campus saying that "education is a right, not a privaledge" If it was a right everyone would go and you would not have to get certain grades in school. People should be happy that they can go to uni. And for the whole 30% more thing, if i get 30% stuff i dont really care. Sure i have like a 10k HECS debt at the mo but i wont have to pay for it till i am everning over 32k or whatever it is and if i never earn an Austalian income i will never have to pay it.

I was in Auto Barn the other day, and I heard some silly Lady complaining that she had to pay 10% GST on parts for her car and how it's all Howard’s fault.

I felt like saying "SHUT THE FUCK YOU DUMB BITCH, YOU HAD TO PAY 30 % SALES TAX BEFORE THE GST CAME IN".

So she was actually saving 20%.

As I've been in the Transport Business for over 10 years now I'm well aware of the advantages of G.S.T

Some narrow minded people complain, but never take the time to learn about what there complaining about.
🙂

[Edited on 5-9-2004 by Flying VW]

Oh yeah and what about that Lying Bastard who promised to build the Scoresby Freeway "with no Tolls" before an Election. Then he screwed as all from behind by then changing his mind once he got into Power.

Now if it ever gets built we will have to pay for it.

The Federal Government has half the Money needed ready to give to Victoria, but since Bracks Lied to us about the Tolls they wont give it to Him.

The agreement was that the Federal government would only give them the assistance if it were a "Toll Free Road", and Bracks knew that.
"KNOB HEAD"

Im votin, for Hotrod matt.
He seem's to know whats going on!
Rob...😎

As long as all these conservative fools are in I'm not having anything to do with politics. These monkeys never get anything done, just *&^*&%# about who spent more on education or who punched a taxi driver a decade ago. Then again if I saw little johnny howard driving a bug I'd give him the vote straight away. Or throw up. :puke

[Edited on 6-9-2004 by boersch]

Australia's Economy - doesn't know the meaning of 'Value-added'

The new word LEVY = TAX scheeming fekers

that is a very interesting point Donkey. However, after a recent assignment into education spending in the 04-05 budget i found that private schools receive the same amount as public, but not per head. Private schools throughout Oz only support one third of all students but receive the same funding as the public schools which cater for 2/3 of students.

Shouldn't somehting be done about the lazy wankers and feral parents who claim money for their 13 or 20 children, while you people, the working class heroes pay sh*tloads of income tax plus sales tax, levies, duties and indirect taxes to support freeloaders. oooh, i love bitching. down with bogans!

hotrod matt's got my vote as well 🙂

incase you havent guessed i dont vote.....although the thought of growing drugs sounds interesting how stoopid do they think we are.

hows this for an idea no one in australia votes and instead we put them in a boxing ring and let them settle it that way......sound too violent....think about it people in todays society its a case of "pre-historic genes in a postmodern world", now dont lie you were all considering the boxing idea 😉

haha, i'll go with that idea if we put bears in the ring

Hey - how'r you people getting around not voting then? I've missed about 7 State and Federal elections (combined), and was given "THE FEAR" by someone who reckon's they nailed a friends buttocks to the wall over not voting.

You guys doing the conscientious objector thing? Or did you tell them you're JUST PLAIN BANANA'S?

BTW - Bob Brown is an absolute legend for all those wishing to turn on their brains.

easy man rock up get your name marked off and hand in a blank ballot paper 😉 how they gonna know :P

Yeah, but that still involves the work of going there and getting subjected to the vibes! Ewwwww!

BTW - I really look forward to voting. Just gotta do it postal. That wally Howard put the election right in the middle of Byron Dubfest! Doofman!

Robo wrote:Im votin, for Hotrod matt.
He seem's to know whats going on!
Rob...😎

Ile 2nd that.:thumb

I actually considered running for a senate seat. Until I found out you need at least $50k to ensure you get the minimum 3% of the poll to get your money back!

I was gonna run on a protest ticket. Bringing democracy into a parliament which asa never experienced it.

My platform:
- Truly representative - Constant polling of the electorate and respecting the wishes of the majority even if their decision is abhorent to me.
- Instant recall. If the electorate shows that I am not voting the way the majority want me to or not introducing the bills they want to see they can instantly recall me.
- Fixed term and fixed contract for representatives. If a representative pulls out during their term the cost a by-election comes directly from their pocket.
- Call for the abolition of the party system. The party system is counter to democracy. The wishes of the electorate are all that matter not the whims of a party heeling to its corporate masters.
- Upending of the Westsinister System. The concept that some reps are there as government and some as oposition is anathema to democracy. All reps are the government! If a rep is actually representative then they support a bill which has the support of their electorate regardless of who proposed it.

For anyone to get elected with a huge margin all you have to offer is direct representative democracy!

But then why would I bother... you can never wash the stench of government from yourself. And how could a libertarian socialist (anarchist) reconcile participation in an oppressive system that needs a revolution not reform.

....true Matt......people often go into politics with good social ethics and get caught up in the system... becoming as corrupt and ineffective as the next person.... :jesus

I wish another Whitlam would come along!! Can't see one out there...🙁

Bob Hawk sold his soul so badly and is now just an old fool.........

will Australia ever get another Statesman....

lol.......good one Matt 😀

I haven't seen a good staesman out there for a long time.... I've become so apathetic over what we have.... No inspired brilliance, or verbal ability amongst any one of out pollies right now.... Quack a duck!!!!

I want a leader that thinks beyond the next election... Hence I am voting Green cos if they get enough support, they might form a coalition with Labor like in Germany, and then we will start seeing long term progress which wont be at the expense of the environment...

Also, I would like to see state governments abolished. Imagine how much that would save the taxpayer. We have 1/4 the population of Germnay with more politicians.... Go the regional council and one federal gov't... Also, lets get a republic... Gosh, now my cards are well and truly on the table...

having said all that, Howard HAS to go...

HotRodMatt wrote:

Howard has kept the lid on Inflation so far....

I love this time of the parliamentary farce. Political and economic naivity rules supreme.

The fiscal policies of the government of the day do bugger all to the Australian economy in the global landscape. Not to mention that the "labor" party's fiscal policy is as right wing as the moderate conservatives...

Australia's highest ever interest rates were under the Fraser conservative government. The much complained about rates during Cheating's (sorry, Keating's) treasury were a full 2% lower than the US rates at the time. Compare that to now where our rates are 2.5% higher! National debt was lower under the Whitlam gov than present even with the harsher external forces experienced in the late 60s thru to the mid 70s. Inflation slowed among Australia's scale economies at the same time as ours and ours will increase at the same rate as thiers regardless of the gov of the day and their fiscal policy.
Our economy booms and drops at te same time as the greater developed world.

It doesn't matter who you vote for or if you bother to vote for those missrepresentative puppets at all, Australia's future lays in machinations of global economics.

Like the old bastards say - "If it changed anything, it'd be illegal."

Voting in a system where MPs represent a party is like protesting for bigger cages and longer chains.

What Matt said. As for Howard's moral and ethical stance, he sent us to war under false pretenses, and he's covering up the baby overboard scam. His shrewdness and timing is impeccable. He uses his great mind to divert attention the facts, and avoid answering questions. Great politician, terrible leader.

As for Latham not being as smart as Howard, READ ONE OF HIS BOOKS. He has his own original ideas, and could have been a scholar if he chose to. I don't think he's a good politician. He hasn't learnt to lie and cover up his tracks yet, and he has a tendency to say what he thinks. That will get him nowhere.😎

So far I have voted Liberal most of my life, for lack of a real alternative. We now could be staring at a real alternative right in front of us, if only he and the media would say to the public what he really thinks.

jenz58 wrote:....true Matt......people often go into politics with good social ethics and get caught up in the system... becoming as corrupt and ineffective as the next person.... :jesus

I wish another Whitlam would come along!! Can't see one out there...🙁

Bob Hawke sold his soul so badly and is now just an old fool.........

I think if you dig deep enough you might find another Gough in Mark Latham. He needs a bit of time. Gough after all mentored him...

I am sad that some people won't vote. I realise that our farcical democracy discourages people who don't necessarily believe the media hype from voting, but that's no reason not to. Lack of choices and so forth.

You see, these elections are the only time we ordinary people actually have a say. In some places, people get to decide on issues, not some w*nker 'representative' away in some w*nker hall bitching and moaning and carrying on like a two-year old. Like, instead of the bl**dy government just deciding everything (like a fascism), people would have to vote before we embarked on illegal military invasions of foreign sovereign countries at the behest of a different foreign power which dictates our foreign policy.

This input by the populace is sometimes called a referendum. They have them several times a year in Switzerland, I know, because I can vote in them. How's this for a concept: if you get enough signatures, then your issue MUST go to referendum. Even if the aforementioned w*nkers in Canberra don't want it to. In Switzerland they seem to manage to afford the referenda OK, despite what some people here would like to claim about them (referenda). And no, they don't all get voted down.

Real democracy, what a concept.

Sorry this got long, I'm just frustrated by the bulls*it system we've got here.

Voting for Greens, because I know they won't be a majority (not sure that'd be too fantastic just yet, they need to mature as a political force first).:beer

Howard has kept the lid on Inflation so far....

As I said before - government fiscal policy has precious little to do directly with inflation and interest rates. However it does has a reasonable effect on growth...

Early to Mid 90s: 3.2%
Now: 1.8%

Now this Treasurer will be the second to next Prime Monster if the current Prime Sinister is re-elected...



To be fair - the [mis]representatives themselves don't make policy. It's the public service, party think tanks (sink tanks?) and beaurocracy that does that... however a conservative government structures a conservative beaurocracy.

Cant vote liberal cos they are racist war mongering american kiss arses and Downer is just screaming out for a smack in the head. For the money the "coallition of the willing" has spent blowing up Iraq (for no apparent reason), we could have bought the place.
Cant vote labor cos they are a bunch of followers, take on turn coats like Kernot, live in the past by parading bob hawke around.
Cant vote Democrat cos they sided with the sore losing bitch and booted Natasha the Destroyer, the most normal person in politics.
Cant vote independant cos its a waste of time.
Only leaves Greens huh.

Not that it makes an ounce of difference here, nobody other than labour will get in down here in steelworks city.

Going to live in NZ where the pollies arent affraid to tell the yanks to go get f.................

Downer is just screaming out for a smack in the head

Hahahahaha.... and a ladder his fishnets!

Oh, I really love this! It's good to hear some intelligent political discourse.

Still, The Lib's are looking strong in the actual AVD poll.

Our Fed member is a Lib here, and she just stuck all that Interest Rates scaremongering rubbish into an article in the local paper.

I read it a day after the 7:30 report's analysis of this "Howard - repeat it ad nauseum until foolish Australia believes it - tactic" that basically put the point that this is simply an ignorant marketing tool, and that Macro (world) economic issues are the puppet masters of our interest rates and Treasurer, regardless of Party.

It was stated that interest rates are expected to stay stable for the next year, and then rise, regardless of which party is in power.

AND HERE'S THE GOOD ONE! Don't you think that if the Government had put some sort of pressure onto investment real estate, that housing prices would not have inflated as quickly and stupidly as they have? This has put people in a russian roulette situation with interest rates, leaving normal Australians in a very precarious situation. Thanks Mr Howard! And what would all of those investment dollars have done for our industry and jobs situation? This is all hypothetical now... Naturally, this has caused a boom in the building industry, but it's the real estate marketers that are getting the cream just for a load of hot air and pressure!

Oooops, I'm rabbiting now. Sorry!:puke

P.S. Please read some of Bob Brown's stuff if you haven't ever had the chance. He's got a brain if you are capable of thinking outside the square, and a conscience if such things are important to you. Two things I'd personally like to see in Australia's leaders.

I reacon Howard's done a bloody good job faced with tuff problems. The economy's in the best state it's been in in years. I think he's still good a few good years in him. Latham has been leader for what?...4; 5 months. My contention is "why fix something that's not broken"

aggri1 wrote:Even if the aforementioned w*nkers in Canberra don't want it to.


Voting for Greens, because I know they won't be a majority (not sure that'd be too fantastic just yet, they need to mature as a political force first).:beer

Steady!!!! Just remember, 90% of pollies live in other states, and only come to Canberra for parliament!!! We who live here are not all wankers, or pollies!!!

As for Greens, imagine if they teamed up with Labor. Keep em honest on environmental front, and think sustainable growth for the next 50 years. That is political maturity.

Having said all that, at least Latham says he will ratify Kyoto!!! That takes balls... and good on him...

Re-iterating, Howard must not win!!!!

Read in the courier mail today only Dual income families with little kiddies will be better off under Marky Marks new Tax policy.
Well screw the single income family again!!
Up yours Labour (for the first time ever!!)

Hey lets start a thread on Religion next!

Yeah religion would be fun... how's this? I am an athiest with theological training!

Me too!!! Luv religions just don't believe anymore...... Think it's all what we make of it now...the big guy has given up.....

OK cat amongst the pigeons........

Hey the polls neck and neck .... don't know whether to get excited or cry!!!

wot a democracy we have. gives us all so much choice into how the country is run.... ha ha

libs
howard sucks dead dogs dicks -
i'll be in the lineup to punch downer.
& something save us from the abbott & costello show.

trouble is,
latham is a loose cannon like gough, just waiting to go off.
crean, well to quote billy; there is power in a union. whether or not you actually work

at the end of the day, when the fat lady sings, i cant vote for either of em. cant vote greens cause bobby will lock off my tracks faster than he'll ok fag marraige. democrats have lost it cause a vote to them will only got to marky anyway.

seems like i'll be going with the 6% that either hand in a blank slip or leave a message without tikking a box.....

???

Ok if we start a religion The children of VW's then we could all get rich !
our denomination could go world wide and remember the donations are tax free!
Don't we already have a Bishop on this forum? and there is a popes nose
You could call me Cardinal Sin

lol.... sounds good to me....we can start up a commune of VW cult followers.....have stables of VW's...songs of praise to the divine VW..... sunday school on keeping history of VW...AND keeping the VW alive in us all 😎

Hallelujah brothers!!!! :thumb

Even people wiyhout VW's can join,we will call them Nones

They could.......they could be our servants........because we are the chosen ones... 😀 😎

hehe i like your thinking hotrodmatt. The westminster system is great - i dont want it to turn into the American system 🙁


Liberal
I'm sick of this "the economy is in its best shape because of liberal" tripe - in a global economy with lots of external factors

Also all this rubbish about how liberal is "strengthening medicare" when they have spent the last few terms trying to get rid of it. Same with the womens helpline ads, they got rid of a lot of services and amalgamated it and took away funding.

Also abolishing ATSIC was silly

Iraq. enuf said.

No one has mentioned the FTA yet. I think we are getting screwed on this, it doesnt include Sugar exports, we will be adopting American copyright law, a lot of tariffs that protect australian industry will be dropped.
- American corporations will be able to legally challenge a lot of our laws
- the PBS scheme is effectively getting abolished (this system is seen as being one of the most progressive in the world) The cost of medication will rise as it will let American drug companies to get golden patents to delay the release of cheap generic drugs.
- A lot of media laws will change so there will be less Australian content in our media
- No one really knows in detail what the FTA really involves

- Ban on gay marriage is pretty neanderthal and homophobic

-HECS... I still have 2 more years of uni to go back to. Universities have no funding and cost more now compared to the early 90's. Good work !

-Investing in stupid tunnels in sydney that will only attract more traffic (short term solution) instead of developing mass transit

-Investing in Coal power and burying coal underground (which has never been proven on large scale)

Labour:

-kneejerk policies, a bit too reactionary to liberal policies
-too conservative, agreed with ban on gay marriage and FTA (aren't they supposed to be the opposition?)
-Latham is too caught up in party politics, there seems to be disunity in labour



I think i'll vote greens - at least they arent stuck in the 1950's and think outside the box.

I dont want to Australia to become another state of the US of A.

[Edited on 9-9-2004 by Che Castro]

Silver, I like the idea of a VW cult. Put me down as the second member if you are the first. Does it mean I am the deputy cult leader? 😎😎😎

No one has mentioned the FTA yet. I think we are getting screwed on this, it doesnt include Sugar exports, we will be adopting American copyright law, a lot of tariffs that protect australian industry will be dropped.
- American corporations will be able to legally challenge a lot of our laws
- the PBS scheme is effectively getting abolished (this system is seen as being one of the most progressive in the world) The cost of medication will rise as it will let American drug companies to get golden patents to delay the release of cheap generic drugs.
- A lot of media laws will change so there will be less Australian content in our media
- No one really knows in detail what the FTA really involves

The Free [sic] Trade Agreement is a whole can of worms. Even here with my access to bills, acts, white and green papers etc it is still hard to get any clear information on it. And NO ONE tells the whole truth about it - mostly because its scope is so wide that there are very few individuals who can understand the whole thing!

Most of our tarrifs are gone anyway - sadly Labor removed many of these (WTF?).

There are benefits in the agreement as I understand but too many negatives. Everyone involved was pretty quick to realise that NAFTA was fair trade for the US but not necessarily for anyone else.


Didn't you love Howard's threats about interests rate yesterday? The RBA has been looking to go up for a while - they can't now that the pubic service and beaurocracy is in caretaker mode. They will rise within weeks of the election finalising regardless of the result - as they are globally.

I want to see a journalist with the balls to make him answer a question about GROWTH. Australia's growth is at a low of 1.8%.

HotRodMatt wrote:Yeah religion would be fun... how's this? I am an athiest with theological training!

Well bugger me. I thought I was the only one...

I thought you said "the one" then not the "the only one"...

That would have been a religion.

Well apparently there's "only one"

:P

Ah, bless you for putting me back on the straight and very narrow:jesus

[Edited on 9-9-2004 by Oasis]

SteveMk2 wrote:

aggri1 wrote:Even if the aforementioned w*nkers in Canberra don't want it to.

Steady!!!! Just remember, 90% of pollies live in other states, and only come to Canberra for parliament!!! We who live here are not all wankers, or pollies!!!

Oh sorry about that, I was actually referring to just the politicians.

An interesting thing was mentioned on TV a few days ago; are we prepared to put up with politicians lying to us? The obvious example is the iraq weapons lie of Howard. Now I know we all expect some dodginess in politics, but lying on such a phenomenally serious issue, is that acceptable? I suspect that many dumb aussies will just go, oh well, he lied, we illegally invaded a sovereign foreign country, but I don't care because he has a better policy on [insert some lame issue]. Phh!:repuke

Regarding the FTA, will many small aussie farming businesses be destroyed like in Mexico. Small-scale corn producers were destroyed when US mass produced imports flooded the market. What result? Unemployment, and the associated crime and other social tensions that go hand in hand with it. Not only farming businesses?

Then again, aren't we and they and most rich countries being incredibly selfish in protecting our markets from those who are even poorer? I mean, can we preach supposed 'free trade' policies to the world in this condition? What about 'fair trade', now that'd be interesting. Oh why bother, capitalism protects itself, it won't serve all the people.

Hmmm....:jesus I like this thread. Not sure about the religion one, that's kinda different. It is faith after all, you either believe or you don't, how well can it be debated?

Got to agree with you Aggri. Go and see the movie "The Corporation" re the FTA. The FTA seems to be an attempt by the government to assist (US) multinationals in taking over the world. God forbid if we decide to stay independent. America will drop a bomb on us. Another good movie re Iraq is "Control Room", about the Al jazeera TV network.

Isn't going to War the most severe decision that a country and its leader's can make?

All the weapon inspectors knew it was a sad joke. Hell, we ALL did! Now - either Howard lied to us for alterior motives, OR - He's incredibly stupid and should be charged for War Crimes, along with Bush and Blair. If a war against terrorism, or rectifying the social justice of a foreign country, or a fight for democracy was his pseudo motive, then why hasn't Australia invaded China? Or about 100 african nations? Come to think of it, why didn't we send more troops to Bouganville? Or Samoa? What about the Bali Bomber's come to think of it? They wounded this country with Terrorism far more than Iraq ever could have.

And during the Iraq "I can do it, JUST BECAUSE I CAN!" farce, where was our Governer General? Oh, yeah, supporting British interests! Silly me!

And didn't you love Johnny deciding FOR US if these actions would make US more of a terrorist target? Thanks Mr Howard! If I want to play Russian Roulette, let it be my decision!

I think that our P.M. should be up on war crimes charges for what he did. Urinating on the U.N. has kinda shown the world how countries can work together (OR NOT!). And the Americans should be in Court over in the Netherlands (just like Milosovic) for their treatment of innocent Iraqi's.

Sure, talk about interest rates if you're stupid enough to ignore the more important issues.

vern74 wrote:I am going with "Airfooled"
Latham is going get my vote .....for what it is worth !
Piss Howard off
He has done enough damage

As someone else said... and thats Logic????

Howard has done a Good Job....

I hope He gets in again....

The Liberal Party coalition do look after the Country People..

In Many other Countries, everyone does National Service in the Army... Latham thinks this is a good idea?, I agree...

Australia IS still the Lucky Country....
just look at other countries in the Free World.....
We have a Great country, and Howard has done nothing to harm it.... IMHO of course...

Politics should be kept off Forums too.... I'll Vote for that....

Politics should be kept off Forums too.... I'll Vote for that....

LMAO!😀

VWombat... my thoughts exactly. And Lee, in your post you tell us your political position, and finish by saying you don't want politics here. How bizarre.

Spooky to bitch about us as a terrorist target, then Bali, and then, within hours, the Embassy in Jakarta is bombed.

I'm officially freaked out!

yes! I just watched The Corporation. Its scary! I am officially a left wing feral who drives a vee dub now 🙂

Mmmm one of the reasons I protested against the iraq war was because it would make us a terrorist target. How can Howard say we arent because of our involvement in iraq?

I still cant forgive Howard for going to war when a pretty good percentage of the population was against the war to start off with! He acted like a Despot. Everyone just sees Aussies as yankee arse lickers. I feel ashamed to be Australian because we went to Iraq.

Too Bloody right... Che Guevarra Castro. And you're probably 100 metres from me...

Supersize me is mostly about the same thing, i.e. the corporatisation of America. I just wish we had a more left wing option... A real one that believes in some sort of social responsibility and justice.

...agreed Oasis..... true socialism ...... not just a bunch of nutters ....

Trouble is anyone that does come in with strong ethics regarding social responsibility and justice gets eaten up by the system or ends up power hungry like the rest ....their lower ego takes over....

I don't really think we are big enough on the world map for terrorists to do something in Australia....we don't make the news headlines overseas....Indonesia has been a hot spot for some time.... Bali is a western tourist destination ....not sure if Australians where their only target there...just a lot of us go there hence the high toll..... It was incredibly shocking, and so close to home for us all....

So many crazies out there now......that school in Russia....my god......that is inhuman majorly sick stuff...... :jesus

Give Bob Brown a try guys! He might make it difficult to churn up our natural assets with Baja tyres, but he's pretty spot on with everything else.

I liked the referendum idea a lot. If you cant get a decent majority in Parliament - ASK THE PEOPLE! That sounds a lot more like democracy to me.

I reckon Howard's latest effort with medicare is worthy of mention..The little weasel has done as much as possible to dismantle it for as long as I can remember..Now he comes out with a bag of money and says he is a better "freind" to a universal health care plan than the Labor Party..
With "friends" like that Medicare is in Big trouble I reckon.
The Liberal Party "user pays" belief is a contradiction to universal plans completely.
So what is his object then? I don't think he is going to make a 180 turn on something he has held close to his miserable cold flinty little heart for as long as I can remember.
As for the stunt about the Frankston freeway..what a load of crap. Which was the party that let the Tolls Genie out of the bottle in Victoria? (and on an already existing freeway!)
Who dropped the toll on the westgate bridge?
Any one who thinks a "freeway" has anything to do with only tolls hasn't got their facts right.
A freeway just means free of intersections.
So we have another con going with te use of that word How much do we spend when we start and drive our cars? It is never Free is it?

As for "No politics in this forum" well one of the joys and privileges of living where we do is that we can discuss things like politics without having to look over our shoulders.



[Edited on 10-9-2004 by Dubnut]

As for "No politics in this forum" well one of the joys and privileges of living where we do is that we can discuss things like politics without having to look over our shoulders.

Spot on Dave! Although, I have noticed a black statesman hanging around our place. Maybe that War Crimes thing was too harsh? Nah! Send 'em all to Guantanemo Bay. Bush Blair and "Mr. No Charisma" i.e. our illustrious PM.

Or better still - give 'em to the Iraqi people. Or send Johnny to Indonesia without Body Guards. That would be the ULTIMATE test to see if we have become more of a terrorist target. Put your money where your mouth is John!

We really need a Michael Moore in this country now don't we?

vwombat wrote:Give Bob Brown a try guys! He might make it difficult to churn up our natural assets with Baja tyres,

It's narrowminded kombi driving hippy louts like you who give baja's a bad wrap.... always the baja's blame it on the baja's.. :blah uneducated dubber's like you make me spew... those mad manx peeps are the worst offenders... jumping over dunes and killing leeches in creek banks etc....

ooh and methinks the democrats are pissed by this poll.. they have gone and blown up some embassy somewhere just to buy more time to do some serious baby kissing while the other parties are busy elsewhere.................................😉

(oops.. *$2 shuts up and goes and hides now*).....

Just responding to an earlier comment Heather. No need to get into a kerfuffle! (those Baja brutes are SO freaking sensitive huh? Must be something to do with their "bare-arsed environmental vandalism in the name of FUN" antiks).

BTW Heather - YOU CAN BAJA A KOMBI YOU KNOW!!! Talk about narrow minded!!!

Can we keep it on politics here please? Somebody give Heather one of those BLUE pills. NO! NOT THE VIAGRA! THE PROZAC!!! ARRRRGHHHHH! There goes another state forest and endangered species under a horny Baja Tyre!

BTW Manx drivers are fine upstanding citizens exhibiting the utmost of taste and decorum. I am sure that they would NEVER subject their fine machines to the destruction of native fauna and flora!

:cry I was just being a turd... furgot to throw in a bunch of lol's smiley faces and fuzzy bears..... yes you can baja a kombi, and I should have used the more broader term 'buggy'..*sigh* voting is just a big waste of time, paper and taxpayers money as your damned no matter who gets in.

*$2 goes away now to eat some glue as she is not stable enough to be participating in this thread* (plus I think picking my nose and storing the boogies in a jar for later is much more productive than posting my dribble about pollies) 😉 :P in fact this post depresses me, I think I am going to see if i can kill myself by eating excessive amounts of vacuum cleaner dust (bag included) :cry I hate me!

vwombat wrote:Isn't going to War the most severe decision that a country and its leader's can make?
...
Sure, talk about interest rates if you're stupid enough to ignore the more important issues.

That's too right. I am saddened that so many people will just ignore the fact that he lied to us about 'the' most serious issue. Now they're saying, yeah well so Saddam didn't have weapons but the people are better off, and it's therefore OK that we were all lied to. :repuke

First of all, the people will be better off sometime in the future, not now, as it seems pretty chaotic to me, judging by all the terrorism and stuff that the invasion instigated.

Secondly, if that were a valid argument (just lets pretend for a second), then where does it end? That's the question. Like wombat said, there are a heap of other dodgy corrupt despotic governments, but I guess they must not have oil, oops, I mean weapons of mass delusion. Did you know that Nazi tactics employed by Goebbels, the Nazi Propaganda Minister, seem to be alive and well here and abroad: tell them the same lie often enough, and they'll believe it. Hah! Interest rates!

Yay for free speech, now lets see if we can get some real democracy, no, I'll rephrase that: how about some real CHOICE, that'd be even better.

Also, while I was in Europe, our treatment of asylum seekers, however it had been portrayed by the media there, was seen to be shameful for us. As in, people avoided it as though I would be embarrassed to be australian when talking about it. I can't say I wasn't.

Lets not try to ban politics on this forum: as long as we can have sensible adult discussions, in threads dedicated to the topic, without resorting to personal attacks, then what's the harm?

(PS: I can't believe that Howard is really stupid, I don't mean to make this a personal attack, much as that might be a stress-relieving activity).

EDIT: oh $2, don't do that. Step away from the vacuum bag. We'd miss you.

[Edited on 10-9-2004 by aggri1]

Heather - we love you Babe! You make us seem somehow Normal!
Don't cry!

And aggri - right on Bro!

Aargh - the Lib's are ahead! (Not on preferences though!) I'm leaving in disgust!

:cry the world is wacked........... could write up a big speil about how corrupt everyone is,, the suffering of innocent victims caught up in war, starvation, disease, children maimed etc............ but I think I'll just go watch the news instead,, see how the boys are doing. Mark is definately a lot spiffier than johnnie (he could do with a eyebrow wax )...ooh It's nice to see them getting out and about meeting up with "real" people :blah ... :duh Why do they think they are entitled to such huge super funds for doing jack, when people are dying on hospital waiting lists, etc etc....(oops nearly slipped)... :duh ..... I think I'll go find something else to do, think i might go to the pub so I can find someone to breed with.. theres big $$ in it you know 😉 :cry

My 2 bobs worth
Mate.... little johnny use to pack supermarket shelfs.. how this can the man run a country..... i say.... a proverb that starts with f and ends with m..... got you guessin---- answer - fuckem
they all the same.

hehe right on oasis 🙂

Yeah Thats anoterh issue, the whole refugee thing.

Sure I can understand quotas for logistical reasons, but keeping entire families in limbo in appalling conditions is just inhumane. Also the whole children overboard thing...

The whole liberal attitude to refugees was just like how European countries were in the 20's and 30's. After WWII a lot of european countries felt they had blood on their hands as they had turned away a lot of Jewish refugees during the war - they changed their laws.

Has anyone seen Farenheit 911? I have and it is appalling if what he alleges is half true.

[Edited on 10-9-2004 by silver]

Another good film to see on how the corporate/government distorts the truth and forces compliance is Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent"
part 1 is "Thought Control in a Democratic Society"
part 2 is "Activating Dissent"

A great film almost a course in intellectual self-defence Michael Moore is a great student of his.

Encourages people to look beyond the sound bites and headlines to find out what is really going on.

"The information is there but it's there to the fanatic, you know, somebody who wants to spend a substantial part of their time and energy exploring it and comparing today's lies with yesterday's leaks and so on... The easy thing to do, you know, you come home from work, you're tired, you've had a busy day... so you turn on the tube and say it's probably right you know, or you look at the headlines in the paper and then you watch the sports or something. That's basically the way the system of indoctrination works. Sure the other stuff is there. but you're going to have to work to find it."

I'm so glad I have been trained and that it's in my nature not to believe half of what I read and none of what I see. I'm one of those who loves to look deeper and i have the job to give me access to those tools and resources and plenty of academics to discuss and help. However knowing the myth from the fact is often a burden.



[Edited on 10-9-2004 by HotRodMatt]

EWW ITS AN EVEN RACE!
watched bowling for coloumbine today.....I am glad Australia has gun laws

Chomsky's one of my heros, as is John Pilger. I have a DVD of an interview with him at Harvard University called Distorted Morality. I reckon Matt for President. I'll lend you 50K... Maybe not. As for your comments on TV etc... I read books that are researched properly and I don't have a TV. I don't listen to the radio or read newspapers. People have the nerve to tell me that I'M into those "conspiracy theorists". You tell me what's more of a conspiracy, a newspaper claim/TV news "ad"/radio news bulletin with NO cross references, or an author of a book who researches for years by often personally talking to the heads of countries and armies, at the same time putting his own life at great risk. Although Mike Moore is at the pop art end of journalism, he has appealed to the greatest audience of anyone in his field of work, and for that he should be applauded, if for no other reason than more people will find out who influenced him. Why would he lie about anything in Fahrenheit 911? He has no motive to lie... His life is threatened every day because of his movies.

Go and see the movie Control Room and see the footage of the Iraq war that America won't show of Iraqi civilians on fire, being shot, amputated etc... You won't see that on Australian or U.S. TV because we will always side with real living and breathing people.
Check this out... http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

We only see a dehumanised enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan. "Muslims", "Islam", "Al Qaeda", "Taliban" all conjure up images instantly in our heads. Thanks to the media the images are most likely of suicide bombers, terrorists, fundamentalists etc... If you want to see a real fundamentalist in action, take a hard look at George.W. Bush, who will bomb a country in the name of his God, using the authority of his God, on behalf of the people of the (Western) world, and against our will. The world was raging against him, and he went to war anyway.

Who put Saddam into power? Who bombed Iraq with uncoated Nuclear warheads in 1991 (to infiltrate the water system, soil,etc)? Who has a business relationship with Osama Bin Laden? Who's economy is 7% owned by the Saudis? Who bombed Pharmaceutical plants in Somalia so that no medicines are available to them? Who won't let simple medicines like aspirin, pennicillin, pain killers etc.. into Iraq because those Pharmaceuticals supposedly could be used to make weapons of mass destruction? Iraqis are operated on without anaesthetics, including amputations etc.. for this reason alone.

Did you know Americans don't need a passport to fly to iraq. It's considered a part of the U.S. I know this is a bloody long post but I haven't even skimmed the surface. I realise that half or more of you probably think this is bullshit but that's because it wasn't on the TV, and I know those of you who don't believe it won't research it yourself to see if it's true of not.
That's my 10 billion cents worth...

This thread is now starting to get interesting...

One must remeber one of the great lies of our Government.

The Hilton Bombing. The most significant "terrorist" act on Australian soil - and seemingly perpetrated by a branch of the government.

It was only because of Terry Griffiths' "fanatic" exploration and digging that anything like the truth is coming to light. For those who don't know - Terry was the police officer who survived the blast. Even after having his stomach spread all over George Street and even still to this day 26 years later bring tears when he speaks of it.

He knew as clearly as anyone who didn't believe the Ananda Marga crap that Tim Anderson had nothing at all to do with the bombing.

It has only been recently that the great lie has begun to unravel.

Most theories point to ASIO or similar being involved. At the time the only dog squad was the military sniffer squad. Before the Commonwealth Heads of Government Conference the were being intensively trained to find bombs. On the Thursday before the conference they were stood down.

The bin outside the Hilton was overflowing onthe day of the blast. Police stationed there were told not to allow the garbage collectors to empty the bins. Terry Griffiths' shift was not informed of this. When the bin was emptied 3 people died and Terry was torn to pieces.

Griffiths was told of NSW Special Branch involvement in the bombing while he was recovering from the bombing, performing light duties at Blacktown police station in 1979.

“A member of the Special Branch who had come there sees me in a room as he's walking past and comes back and says `Terry Griffiths, victim of the Hilton bombing'. I said yeah, he said, `I've got something to tell you', and he told me that the person who made the bomb warning phone call was a member of the Special Branch. He was in a motor vehicle in George Street with other security force members.”

ASIO was facing a funding cut at the time - surprise surprise they were quick to respond when some say they were actually there to "discover it" before its explosion. The funding ended up being increased!

But why would Australian security forces bomb an Australian hotel? Griffith believes that they “were trying to stage the event.

“They were going to sandbag the outside receptacle; they were going to have the robot there and shoot the bullet in and blow it up. The phone call was going to be made, we were going to be notified, then the army called in, the police ballistics called in, the media called in.

“ASIO and other security forces believed that this was the ideal moment to stage what was pretending to be the beginning of terrorist activities in this country.”

He points out that, as a result of the explosion, ASIO was given immunity from prosecution for its illegal activities, as well as an expanded staff and budget.

In a Senate enquiry many years later regarding the event Gareth Evans is quoted as saying "Nothing ASIO does, including murder, is illegal."

Most of the information is available now even to people who aren't inclined to work for the truth. Look it up and see how deceitful our Government is at it roots.

[Edited on 10-9-2004 by HotRodMatt]

Stolen generation...

so where do we get this movie "control room"

It's showing at the moment in arthouse cinemas like the Valhalla in Sydney. Don't know where in Brisbane. here's an ABC review.. http://www.abc.net.au/nightlife/stories/s1164034.htm

Noam Chomsky is one of the world's greatest minds and souls! It's a shame that he isn't up for President of the U.S. Great to hear support for the man!

Michael Moore rocks, because he brings interesting facts to the "unwashed" masses (or media brainwashed as the case may be). Anyone who knows Chomsky, knows like minded people, and that whole lefty intellectual movement tends to feed on itself too much. It can be inaccessible for newbies, and often doesn't do enough to preach to the non-converted.

But what does this thread boil down to? The interest rates SCARE is a pathetic sham. Australians are now squarely in the sights of international terrorists thanks to John. Macro economic issues guide the performance of our globally "relatively insignificant" economy. WE HAVEN'T HELPED IRAQ - WE HAVE JUST HELPED SCAR IT'S PEOPLE FOR GENERATIONS TO COME. By putting business relations and financial opportunism ahead of the truth, we have lost face, and proven to be the lap dogs of a bullying superpower. Howard lies and/or is incompetent. Latham is untested (but the Politicians behind him aren't - so get over it), Brown is a pillar of common sense and integrity, and the rest?

Ah, make up your own minds. For me, dollars simply aren't as important as truth and respect. John has injured my national pride by leading this country in an "un-Australian" way (by my definition).

I agree VWombat, but once a person with truth and respect gets into power, the truth and respect invariably goes out the window under the pressure of showing the bottom line. It will be interesting to see what happens to Peter Garrett with time. I've been thinking that if you can use a wrong motive as incentive for good outcomes then that's a good thing, e.g. if you can show the Tasmanian government that they'll make lots of money if they DON'T log the Styx forest (through tourism of whatever) then we'll all get the outcome we were after. You can tell people until you're blue in the face that if you cut down a forest there will be a significant drop in the amount of oxygen produced, loss of water, loss of native wildlife, global warming etc.. BUT if you tell them that they'll make MORE MONEY if they keep the forest, their eyes light up and they all say OK. Same outcome, everyone happy. So, if money is the bottom line then let's use it to our advantage. It's in our financial interest to leave Iraq. It's in our financial interest to reject the FTA, It's in our financial interest to build a proper public transport service, It's in our financial interest to have free healthcare, It's in our financial interest (in the long run) to offer free education... etc.... Social justice could make us a lot of money as a country.:thumb

So after seeing the debate last night, anyone changing their mind?

Nope. My position is still the same. I won't be encouraging the bastards.

A few elections ago I was involved in the Vote Neither campaign. The guy who took most of the responsibility for the campaign, Albert langer, was jailed for his efforts in showing people how they could legally vote for neither of the majors and still cast a "valid" vote. Essentially it used a loophole where preferences could be exhausted.

for example

3 Liberal
3 Labour
3 National
3 Greens
1 Moster Raving Loonies
2 Independant

What this vote would have done is put the prefences where you want them. Once the third preference was deemed to be necessary it could not be given to either of the majors as the preference was exhausted.

So desperate to stop people actually making a valid and legal vote that the majors couldn't get their hands on the practice was soon made illegal.

However the person brave enough to start a campaign highlighting this was jailed for contempt after being told to desist by the courts. Why? Because it was then illegal to inform people how to vote legally but against the major parties!

Remember - if you vote you can't complain about the entire system only the people within it. If you don't vote (either by boycott or not marking the forms) you have every right to complain because you are no longer complicit in the Westsinister false democracy parliamentary system.

Matt, I agree that the system is wrong, and is a false democracy, and your method of voting would certainly say that, but don't you think we are better off doing what we can to regularly change the fool in power? A lot of damage can be done in 4 years, but the end of the world as we know it can be achieved in 8 years, and voting is perhaps the only thing we can do to stop almost absolute power corrupting absolutely ...

SMART DOCTORS
Five surgeons are discussing who makes the best patients to operate on.

The first surgeon says, "I like to see accountants on my operating table,
because when you open them up, everything inside is numbered."

The second responds, "Yeah, but you should try electricians! Everything inside them is colour coded."

The third surgeon says, "No, I really think librarians are the best; everything inside them is in alphabetical order."

The fourth surgeon chimes in: "You know, I like construction workers...those guys always understand when you have a few parts left over at the end, and when the job takes longer than you said it would."

But the fifth surgeon shut them all up when he observed: "You're all
wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate on. There's no guts, no heart,
no balls, no brains and no spine, and the head and the ass are interchangeable.

Beautifully put! RESPECT!

Oh that's a good one. Very nice.

Letter to a Liberal MP from a disaffected Liberal farmer
By Margo Kingston
September 8, 2004 01:37 PM
How real is this supposed Liberal voter backlash against John Howard? Farmer Sue Bradford wrote to me today:
I have just read your book HYPERLINK "http://www.nothappyjohn.com/"Not Happy John with my chin on the floor - it is rivetting but very depressing stuff. Here is a letter I am sending to our local Federal member Alby Schultz (the Liberal MP for the well heeled seat of Hume west of Sydney who is most famous for defying Howard to publicly oppose the sale of Telstra). I have never been in tune with his politics but he has been a very supportive and interested Member of Parliament. However I am angry enough to be finally sending this letter to him, and I thought I'd send it to you as evidence of the real dismay out here.

I am a 57 year old farmer married to a 5th generation farmer with one daughter and 2 step children. We are in blue ribbon Coalition territory but the upwelling of dismay and disgust with the current leadership is amazing. The only people I know who will certainly vote Liberal are those who are unquestioning and disinterested in any political debate. Even my husband is highly critical of the worst of Mr Howard's excesses and he is going to read your book too."

***
'Nubba'
Cooringle Rd
Harden NSW 2587
bradford@dragnet.com.au
3.9.2004
Dear Alby
This letter has been simmering on my computer for over 2 years and I have been hoping I’d never need to send it, but now that the election has been called I have no choice.

I have admired the job that you have done as our State and Federal member and have appreciated the support you have always given our local affairs. I wish you well in the forth coming election but I won’t be one of those voting for you and I wanted to do you the courtesy of explaining why. The problem is that I cannot cast a vote which indicates in any way that I support Mr Howard. I would dearly love to be able to vote Liberal but will only do so when the party has gained some of it’s humanity and the small ‘l’ liberalism that it started with.

The reasons (in no particular order) for which I dislike Mr Howard with an intensity I’d never have believed possible are:-

• His destruction of the Republic debate with the support of a dishonest campaign and his refusal to allow the one obvious question to be put – that being ‘Would the people of Australia prefer to have an Australian Head of State’? Having wrecked that debate Mr Howard has cornered the real role of our supposed Head of State and has attended functions and events to which he has no right.

• The mean-spirited response to the ‘Stolen Generation’ and Mr Howard’s refusal to say ‘Sorry’. We will never move on with the Aboriginal people of Australia until the severe wrongs of the not-too-distant past are properly acknowledged and atoned for. To authorise the spending of millions on barristers to fight a few sad and damaged people over some compensation for the evils done to them is something with which you should be ashamed to be involved.

• It has been obvious to me since the last election that Mr Howard lied over the Children Overboard affair, and now, with the evidence mounting, the case seems clear. We are not bored with this issue and I will not tolerate a leader who uses the misfortunes of others for his own political gain. Arguments that the issue wasn’t clear are no excuse – the information was grabbed with glee and used and abused at every opportunity. Mr Scrafton has given his account clearly and has nothing to gain by doing so. Mr Howard has run for the cover of an election. One of them is lying and I know who I believe.

• The treatment of asylum seekers has made me weep real tears. How can we indulge in the disgusting and wickedly expensive Pacific solution? The numbers are so tiny and the people who make it to Australia are probably the very ones with guts and determination that we need. Children damaged beyond repair and adults in terminal despair is not something we can be proud of.

• Following George Bush into war with Iraq was a mistake for which we will pay and pay. If we are more at risk of terrorist attacks than we used to be, I sheet that firmly home to our blind involvement in the illegal Iraq war, and in our dubious alliance with George Bush. We were lied to regarding the reasons for this war and now that the original reasons have been shown to be palpably false, we were expected to accept that the reasons didn’t really matter anyway.

• I resent our armed forces being used for the PM’s photo opportunities – even in this he usurps the Governor General’s role at every turn.

• The shutting down of the Parliament of Australia during the visit of George Bush was a scandal. And this must never happen again – and you back benchers must never allow it again. Anyone who is prepared to send young people off to fight their wars and do their dirty work should take their chances in the street like the rest of us. The Head of State Mr Howard purports to support, Her Majesty the Queen, would never in a million years have condoned such a nonsense. The man-handling of Senators Brown and Nettle was also a shameful episode, when they were after all doing what most of us would dearly like to have done – ask questions of a man who is leading us by the nose. That our House was closed down for what was officially not even a State visit, and our police, security services and press were all forced to be subservient to a foreign power is totally unforgivable – and for what?

• Mr Howard’s refusal to accept that East Timor would be a blood bath after Independence voting until it was hideously apparent that he had hidden his head in the sand for to long. To then finally turn around and send in the troops when there was no other choice and claim the credit for doing a good job was nauseating.

• It is duplicitous in the extreme to refuse to enact legislation ensuring that workers are paid their due entitlements when a company goes bust, yet the one company for which Mr Howard pledged support was that owned by his brother. And while we are talking about family, his son Tim’s involvement in sending spam emails to electors sounds doubly dodgy to me.

• The Government’s treatment of Tertiary Education – the starving of courses and colleges of funds so that any of us trying to send children on to maximise their talents face appalling bills – and Mr Howard and his mates got their education virtually free. The impending 2 tiers of HECS and full fee paying students will be divisive in the extreme.

• The denigration of the ABC and the attempts to staff the board with Liberal Party cronies makes my blood boil. We need a free and fearless public broadcaster and if the government doesn’t like what it hears - well so be it. I do not find the ABC to be biased – I value broadcasters of the calibre of Kerry O’ Brian, Terry Lane and Chris Masters, and programmes such as Four Corners and Background Briefing and we would be poorer and more vulnerable with out them. An Australia wholly dependant on the commercial networks doesn’t bear thinking about.

• The attempts to pander to Kerry Packer and Rupert Murdoch regarding cross media ownership are sincerely scary, for without a free media we will be completely blind to anything those grotesquely powerful people do not wish us to observe. We must ensure a free and fearless press or we are sunk.

• I sincerely object to Mr Howard’s appropriation of a house to which he has no right – ‘for family reasons’. Even if that were a valid excuse (which to me it is not) I understand his children are all grown up and there is no reason why he can’t make his home where he ought to – in The Lodge in Canberra. Kirribilli house is far too expensive an option and constantly flying him back and forward between Sydney and Canberra is an impost I resent. I trust he will replenish the raided wine cellar before he leaves too.

• I am disgusted by the politicisation of the Public Service to the extent that it is obvious that no senior officer dares give advice that they know will be not be welcome. To make people’s careers so vulnerable to the whims of politicians is cruel and ultimately dangerous.

• I abhor the Government’s refusal to fight for the rights of Terry Hicks and Mamdoubh Habib. To condone their incarceration in Cuba and to allow a farce of a military tribunal to take place should make us all shiver in our shoes. They did nothing illegal in Australian law and for that reason alone the Foreign Minister should have been beating down doors ever since.

• Mr Howard’s stubborn support of his political mates when they have been caught doing seriously dishonest or inappropriate things is also a disgrace. The list is long.
Ø Peter Reith (rorting his Telecard),
Ø Michael Wooldridge (misusing his Parliamentary office after he resigned),
Ø Ross Cameron (morals crusader who cheats on his wife),
Ø Dr Hollingworth (A Governor General who lied – and I read all 400 plus pages of the report)
Ø Alan Jones – Cash for comment,
Ø Bill Heffernan (the Justice Kirby affair should have had that man sent packing)
Ø Wilson Tuckey – (abusing his parliamentary position and letterhead in favour of his son – and lying)
Ø Trish Draper – (abusing Travel allowances)
Ø David Flint (unhealthy relationship with Alan Jones whilst Chairing the ABA)
Ø Tony Abbott – (lying to the AEC during his efforts to send Pauline Hanson to jail)
Instant dismissal is the only worthy response to these people and yet time and time again they are sent off with pats on the back and an insincere smile.

• I am distressed by the huge sums of money being wasted on blatant political advertising, most of it entirely unnecessary and all of it would make a real difference to so many organisations I know.

• I am cynical in the extreme about any environmental movements being made during the election run-up. Mr Howard’s credibility in that area is zero. We should have signed the Kyoto agreement months ago.

• Mr Howard’s attempts to curtail the powers of the Senate – what a disaster that would be, although one can see why this control freak wants to limit the strength of the only effective curb on his ability to rule absolutely.

• And last on this list although I have many more in my head – anyone who can coin the terms ‘core and non-core promises’ with a straight face and expect us all to accept it is an idiot.

Ironically, if Mr Howard were to resign in favour of Mr Costello, I would probably change my mind. I think Mr Costello has more chance of bringing the party back to the sort of small ‘l’ liberalism I can vote for yet Mr Howard’s treatment of Mr Costello has been contemptuous. I do not trust Mr Howard and never will. He appears to me to be a small minded, mean spirited, little person who does us no credit. He is wrecking Parliamentary Democracy and I trust that history will ensure that he is never forgiven for that.

I don’t yet know where I shall cast my vote and will if necessary spoil my ballot. I am sorry that I don’t live in an electorate where I can probably make a difference. Although I will certainly cast my Senate vote where it will do the most good. As you can see I am very very angry right now and what you need to be aware of is the huge level of dismay that is out here. I know so many intelligent people from country and city who are appalled by the Howard Government – people who are normally cast iron coalition voters. This election will, I hope, be very very interesting.

I wish you well, Alby. I’m sure you will be re-elected but I’m afraid it won’t be with my assistance.
With best wishes to yourself and Gloria
Yours sincerely
Sue Bradford

Where did you get that?

that's gotta be the longest post I've ever seen....Has anybody actually read it all?

Dubnut wrote:that's gotta be the longest post I've ever seen....Has anybody actually read it all?

YUP!

Me too. I actually looks like a form letter to me. The kind that parties circulate and get stooges to send in.

Yeah, I'm no stooge, I just got it via email today from a friend who is obviously on a stooges list. That's a lot of work and journalistic professionalism for a country bumpkin eh? Still there are a few good points in the sucker!

Forgot to say - I like "Iggy and the Stooges". Wonder who Iggy would vote for? Probably the Dalai Lama

Who's America going to vote for?

Have any of you ever read about PNAC before? This is the statement of Principles from “Project for the New American Century” a.k.a. PNAC signed by the people below. NB: Rumsfeld, Cheney, Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Quayle etc...All now running the USA. This “non-profit” organization has had long term plans to take over the world. This is why they formed in the first place. We will be their profit. See here: http://www.newamericancentury.org/aboutpnac.htm

I should point out that this is from their own web site, not "some conspiracy theorist."

The opening statement is,
“Established in the spring of 1997, the Project for the New American Century is a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership.”




Statement of Principles

June 3, 1997

American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital -both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.

Elliott Abrams    Gary Bauer    William J. Bennett    Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney    Eliot A. Cohen    Midge Decter    Paula Dobriansky    Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg    Francis Fukuyama    Frank Gaffney    Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan    Zalmay Khalilzad    I. Lewis Libby    Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle    Peter W. Rodman    Stephen P. Rosen    Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld    Vin Weber    George Weigel    Paul Wolfowitz
June 3, 1997

Before voting Greens, check there education policy.......this is total crap. The Libs and the Labour party arent too much better either......in fact I think we should lock up all the politicians and just be done with it. we seem to get along just fine without being told what to do all the time by the legalistic twits who over Govern us.

Free world, pay for the privilege of being told what to do or locked up.......Communist world , face being locked up for not doing what you're told to do.

I often think that the secret plan of Governments is to turn us all into nice compliant sheep who dont thinkfor themselves and just do as they're told. As far as I am concerned, they can all Bugger Orf!!

well, I dont really know much about politics, I'm not really into it. But that letter about John Howard above makes me wonder. And I've heard some horrible things about Mark Latham.
I've heard that he said he's a "hater" and he's going to teach his children to hate. Do we really want a prime minister that can't see straight through his hate-filled eyes?
I also heard that his party are going to stop the pension if they get elected.
So what will happen to the elderly who can't work and their super company screwed them outta their money? Will they just die of starvation? Come on! Thats insane.

So I think I agree with you Freddie, I'm votin for NOONE!

Quote... "I've heard that he said he's a "hater" and he's going to teach his children to hate. Do we really want a prime minister that can't see straight through his hate-filled eyes?"

Well I don't think either side has good policies, but I still wonder whose interests it would serve to spread that rumour. Obviously it's a carefully placed piece of propaganda that is so extreme that it's not even believable.

There is always a crazy rumour being spread about some pollie especially around election time....it would be so nice if they could cut d crap for a change...get down to real issues

Their all slimy scumbags only out to get as much as they can for the least amount of effort, and don't care who the have to roll, along the way! I have nothing but contempt for the whole lot of them. my vote is always a protest vote, voting againts someone!
Rob...😎

Wish they had electronic voteing on d internet..... 😎

....gunna have to vote early

Those new american century psychos are a bit of a worry. Oh gosh, that's not them in there now is it, illegally invading places?

I too am disgusted with 'core' and 'non-core' promises. What a crock. If you say you will do something, then you'd better mean it! Dammit! There're no 'promises' that you didn't really mean. If I vote for someone based on what they say, it's a fraud if they change their mind the moment they're in power.
:cussing

Quote on today's desk calendar :

'Why is it that when people have no capacity for private usefulness they should be so anxious to serve the public?'

hmmmmmmmm

pretty appropriate for this topic

....hmmmmm ....I think I would have turned around and gone home on that note.... :jesus

I hope the rest of the year is better....any positive thoughts on it?

....but yes so relates to election time......maybe the writer/publisher knew of the election coming up....an insider

.....p.s. I've voted!! That's outta the way :bounce:bounce:bounce

[Edited on 29-9-2004 by jenz58]

i hate to admit it but im going to vote for the little runt only because he will support the forces the best and not do something really stupid like form a coast guard when we already have a similar thing in place

WHOA BARLS!

Does supporting the forces the best include sending them off to wars which we have no place in? Invading foreign states? Making us greater terrorist targets?

Now - I'm actually a bit of a pacifist, but I was once an angry young man too. If you really feel the need to shoot something, I can think of a bunch of feral creatures ruining this country (NO - NOT THE LEFTIES EITHER). Go shoot a pig, or a cat, or a buffalo, or a fox, or a cane toad, or an indian mynah. That's what our armed forces should be out doing!

Read this... http://blatanttruth.org/draft.php

and this... This is the statement of Principles from “Project for the New American Century” a.k.a. PNAC signed in 1997 by the people below. NB: Rumsfeld, Cheney, Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Quayle etc... This “non-profit” organization has had long term plans to take over the world. This is why they formed in the first place. See here: http://www.newamericancentury.org/aboutpnac.htm

The opening statement is,
“Established in the spring of 1997, the Project for the New American Century is a non-profit, educational organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership.”



Statement of Principles

June 3, 1997

American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital -both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.

Elliott Abrams    Gary Bauer    William J. Bennett    Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney    Eliot A. Cohen    Midge Decter    Paula Dobriansky    Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg    Francis Fukuyama    Frank Gaffney    Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan    Zalmay Khalilzad    I. Lewis Libby    Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle    Peter W. Rodman    Stephen P. Rosen    Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld    Vin Weber    George Weigel    Paul Wolfowitz
June 3, 1997

Can I read it in d morning...it's very long

....wow this statment was enough to put u off them

This “non-profit” organization has had long term plans to take over the world. This is why they formed in the first place.

Freaky stuff!!! Say no more....:jesus

Oh...and the God's police statement

America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American :puke:puke:puke

I'm off to bed on that note.....

we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

......OMG

They live in their own tiny universe

I'll let you read it tomorrow... This is their own website by the way, not what somebody else says about them....

I ended up reading it.......goodness there are some crazies around...trouble is some of them get a following.....

When you are born & raised in Newcastle, your grandfather teaches you to vote Labour.
They could nominate a chimpanze & it would win the seat.

Having said that, I have never understood why an incumbent party needs to make promises. Why isn't it already done?

That, & any man who vows to have my nephew home for Christmas, gets my vote.

but its not physically possible to pull our people out that quick and i should know cause ive seen how long it took for us to set up for the solomans last year and the boat is about to do another trip up there. so i dont believe that promising that to set up a coast guard and bringing the troops back will do anything as the first is already in place in the form of patrol boats and the second is just stupid to think that they could move that many personell in such a short time. look i dont want to vote for the little runt but he is the best option for the forces as he will not cancel the projects in progress at the moment to fund other stupid ideas. just cause im in the forces doesnt mean that i like all of the current decisions but what can i do about it and we all signed up knowing what could happen to us and where we can be sent.

Where is the problem with cancelling a war?
As for the time frame; they pulled out of Vietnam in a hurry.

jenz58 wrote:....hmmmmm ....I think I would have turned around and gone home on that note.... :jesus

I hope the rest of the year is better....any positive thoughts on it?

Well today's quote is much better.....'The greatest happiness you can have is knowing that you do not necessarily require happiness'

but I must admit, I really do want to turn around and go home most (all) days that I walk into this place.
:duh

Julie-Anne.....who orders your stationary? Tell them to get a life!! 😀

If there's a war on or conflict that we're involved in, and then the whole WOT thing....we tend to vote conservatively...don't usually go for a change in government....it will be interesting to see what happens though...my vote is caste against the government

there nothing wrong with canceling a war but look at it this way they give the order in say mid to late october it still will take at least till late january maybe early February till they get all personnel and equipment out of the are so ether way it isn't going to happen before christmas. and what is wrong with protecting ones lively hood??? :duh

Hmm, I get where you're coming from Barls, but gee, I'm saddened.

The early pull-out from iraq is one labour policy I don't get. If we're stupid enough to go in and wreck some place, we damn well better be prepared to stay around as long as we are useful and help fix it. I was against the war to start with, but as barls said, it's not realistic to get the troops home so quickly.

On the other hand, if we're not wanted, we should leave. If only the americans understood this, bin laden might not even be annoyed at them. He did after all start his complaints with the presence of US forces in the gulf region. Dumbasses.

im glad that some one understands where im coming from. see what most of you dont know is that with the last cut backs the forces have to put some of there stuff in to storage and not use them. for the navy this means about 6 or 7 ships are getting laid up and under lathem there would be more funding cuts. so you all see where im coming from on this one

They're not gunna sack the army cause we aint at war.

But all things being equal the only redeeming thing Howard has done was the Tampa incident. I get pissed off when the do gooders leave the word "illegal" out of that arguement.

Other than that, no GST was a lie.
Children overboard was a lie
Weapons of mass destruction was a lie.

Then their campaign slogan is "who would you trust?":o

But leaving Howard; Downer's a professional failure, Costello's just a wanker & that Abbot has got to be the shiftiest bloke in parliament.
Then the other half of the coallition, Anderson couldn't lie straight in bed. A few years ago he was extolling the virtues of of a mobile phone network that didn't work if you were parked in HIS driveway at Gunnedah!

Like it or not, these clowns have got to go.

yeah but its more the fact that some of what came to light was true but i cannot say what part is true. but ill give you the weapons of mass destruction. i mean if they had of said that they were going in to secure the oil supplies id have believe them.

When the Kuwait war started, I was for it. Iraq was the agressor. When we went looking for Bin Ladin, I wasnt against that. Although I find it extremely hard to figure out how he got away, since american 'inteligence' supposedly knew where he was. They were getting enough supplies of video tapes, or was that a lie to justify that little excursion. I supported that war even though I believe that was 49% Bush governments fault. They taught them how to fly. They knew where they lived (they were at the houses within hours), but did nothing to stop it, despite a warning from security advisors that airport security was a joke.

Then came this WOMD thing. I had no doubt that weapons of mass destruction was a lie before it started. Any truth and the UN would have found something in the endless months of searching. The 'evidence' was pictures of 'chemical factories'. The pictures looked just like Kurnell to me.
If we go around the world looking at all the holes in the ground we will see that the so called good guys, have weapons of bigger mass destruction than anyone else, and they aint afraid to use them.

The problem is, we choose our fights. Nobody cared much about Timor. Nobody cares what happens to anything in the pacific region. Nobody cared when french bombed the rainbow warrior in auckland harbour. Nobody cares about whats happening all over africa. Nobody cares about what Israel is doing. Because John Howard supported the US anti Muslim policy and push for oil profits, killing a hell of a lot of people, wasting a hell of a lot of money he needs to go down. You dont play with peoples lives for money.

Shit they even spend MY money locking up people like Pauline Hanson (on trumped up Tony Abbot BS) and Renee Rivkin while the violent people get $200 good behaviour bonds.

I dunno who I am going to vote for except that it wont be Liberal. I'm more looking forward to NSW state election, goodbye Bob.

[Edited on 30-9-2004 by amazer]

ok if we dont care about the pacific region why did we go in to timor and the solomans then?

I'm talking 'we' the 'coalition of the willing'. And a prime minister should fight for the citizens of his own country first. Either get Hicks and co charged or released. The yanks are saying even if found innocent by the kangaroo court, they might not necessarily release them.

And why we team up with them bastards who were prepared to sign over Australia (northern half at least) to the Japanese, used Australian soldiers for all the too tough battles overseas, and then came back and used Australians as guinea pigs for nuke testing, knowing that it would have serious health effects. Maybe that was too long ago. But thats a different thread.

Free trade agreement: Why take sugar out? Cos the yanks wanted it excluded. Then they turn around and say you cant take out medicines. Its all or nothing. All = Everything that we americans want. Howard: "yes, yes, whatever you want, just tell everyone I am a man of steel one more time" As much backbone as a jellyfish.

Edukashun: Why give more money to private schools than public? The private are all getting money from the parents. Not saying dont give them anything, but dont give them more!

WHy is education a state issue during state elections and a federal now? Why are both majors talking about building TAFE colleges and providing apprenticeships? In my area I have 2 TAFE colleges and 3 hospitals that have been stripped bare. Every weekend there are fitting jobs in the paper. The Engineering section where I did my trade is closed. Dont need anything special there. Just open the door and supply a couple of teachers. Big deal.

And along spooks line, how come the mongrels never come knocking on my door asking how I am during the rest of their 3 yr term. You only exist during a campaign.

So making up reasons for invading a country or going to War is GOOD because it secures Australian jobs?

Silly old lefty me!

Let's just clearfell the forests, poison the waterways, and discriminate against all Muslims. There's a buck in all those causes isn't there?

Muslims are the new persecuted Jews to a worldwide "Christian" Nazi movement led by America, Britain, and us ? (regardless of if we want to or not). I'm an explorer of Zen Buddhism BTW.

stick a fork in their arse, turn them over - they're done

You're a witless, sarcastic fool Matt! Just my kinda bloke!

Barls - you're gonna get punched soon!

vwvombat, we have implied political freedom of speech in Australia, not implied punches in the face. Keep it civil.

I've never wasted my vote on a Liberal candidate before, and I'm not about to start now. I used to be a member of the Democrats, and then things went bad and then from bad to worse. However, I am not sure I can bring myself to vote for the union thugs / factional benchwarmers who make up the Victorian ALP. Out and out corruption should never be rewarded.

If you are in a safe seat like me, make 'em sweat. Vote for a third place candidate whose preferences do not help the incumbent (as long as they're not the Family First lunar right god botherers) and help make your seat a marginal. Marginals get fantastic pork barrelling every three years.

In every state except Tasmania, vote above the line on the Senate paper as your vote is wasted otherwise. Below the line votes are not counted unless the last senate seat comes to the absolute wire.

Andrew

What Democrats?? Don retired years ago & there hasn't been a real one since.
" So be kind to Democrats cause just like koalas, they'll just sit on the fence, piddling & scratching, until they become extinct"
(How green was my cactus)

Sad fact is, Wombat, war DOES tend to provide employment, from munitions to coffins & everything in the middle.

Spook wrote:...
Sad fact is, Wombat, war DOES tend to provide employment, from munitions to coffins & everything in the middle.

Hmm, george orwell seemed to be indicating as much in '1984' right. The three empires maintained the status quo by remaining at war all the time wasn't it?

We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace.

I like that...

Kinda like

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

Matt, you know Spearhead? Michael Franti? I always thought the name Spearhead was an interesting choice for him, his message being what it is... I really like 'em. Stay Human!

And yeah, I reckon we should all vote too, Dubnut. I have been brought around to the side of those who think it's a good thing that we all have to vote. I mean, fanatics are more likely to vote right, than regular people, given the choice. Look what it got the U.S. -> a dumbass psycho PNAC oil-executive!

Barls knows I'd never really punch him Andy - he's more into whippings, papercuts, lemonjuice and barbed wire handcuffs - hence his support of the liberals!

Good points David - why bother turning up if you're gonna waste your vote guys? It does pain somewhat to make a preference list of complete bigots though. I mean how do you categorise the damage that could be done by the Family First's, One Nations and Independent right winger freaks out there (I know - there are some nice upstanding independants out there too - just not here in Qld apparently - or maybe they just don't get any of the press? Who's Pauline Hansons seamstress again?)

As for Franti - Disposable Heroes is where it started Man. But yes, he has carried on the good work with Spearhead. What's happened to Jello Biafra lately?

Television is the drug of the nation, breeding ignorance and feeding radiation....

LABOR.. get rid of that stupid little weasle of a idiot howard,thats all i got to say .

whatever way we vote
We are going to end up with a politician :jesus
Its always the same,2 groups fighting over who knows best,let's face it if they cant sit down with each other and work stuff out its always going to be a shitfight. If the other party has a good idea they will complain purely because it came from the opposition,bunch of kindergarten kids. They should take of these forums I reckon, Ive seen many errors in statements cleared up and opinions offered without any bickering and the job gets done
:vader
Vote "aircooled" 🙂

erm
that should read "take notice of these forums"


ps
the editor has been fired

Voting "Aircooled" would mean the Greens right?

The major parties are just full of hot air anyway (strangely - emitted orally - yet with the odour of anal gases? Go figure). Maybe they all need airscoops and an extra oil cooler?

conspricy theory....some one entertain me!

bertie_beetle wrote:John Howard is a snot-nosed, half-arsed, dimwitted, pea-brained, knob-jockey.

rather than the devil we know, we might be better with the devil we dont know.....

still undecided whether i vote, write a message or vote 123333....

no point writing a message. The politicians dont read them, just people like us doing the counting with a couple of stooges looking over their shoulders.

Yah Liberals Won!

(Thought I'd get in early)

I'm Voting Nationals... I like low interest rates....
as I don't have any money in the bank...
spent it all on My Beetle....

and John Howard will win again....

Go Johnny Boy go..... I knew You'd be there at the end....

I just want to know where all the money that Latham was going to spend... was supposed to come from....
Taxation??

Confusius say "Beware of man spending money like He hasn't
a care in the world"

Lee

wtf!!!

they all been spending $$$$$ like no tomorrow. its all been taken from us taxpayers and horded waiting for cynical vote buying now.

johhny has been responsible for transferring govt debt to private debt. he & costello are so useless at running things that the average mortgagee is so close to the edge that even a 2% fluctuation on int rates has em stuffed. all our eggs are in the private home ownership basket. trouble is that basket will be disrupted sooner ar later. remeber its a real estate cycle....

puk em.
vote minor first 123333 & write a message...

I'm Voting Nationals... I like low interest rates....

You really are mentally ill Lee!

Interest rates rise and fall directly in line with the rest of the developed world. One would like to look back and see that the highest rates experienced were under Fraser, not a labor government.

If our pissant government policies had any influence on interest rates ours would be 1.5% like the U.S. or 0.75% like Japan.

Do yourself a favour and don't vote for any of the bastards. It just encourages them.

When Little Johnny wins his 4th term (and Costello his 1st) tonight rates will rise during their term anyway. Then all you conservative voters will have to eat shit sandwiches and dream up another boogy-man that caused the rate rise ignoring the fact that the whole world is starting to rise again.

[Edited on 8-10-2004 by HotRodMatt]

John Howard.. Champion!!!

Told ya so!

The greens and Democrats (esp) have got nuthin!!

Wasn't that a relief. Can you just imagine if Mark Mayham had been elected as our leader.

Liberal won. I'm depressed...

What I find sad is that the lib campaign used scare tactics - which worked. Saying that interest rates would rise under labour, that the labour govt couldn't manage the economy etc. The labour ads weren't that much better, but they weren't out and out lying. Not one independent economist has attributed a future interest rate rise to a labour govt change.

There was also a rumour going around that in the seat of Greenway (with a large ultra conservative christian population), lib doorknockers went around telling people that the labour candidate was muslim. Dont know if it is true but it sounds believeable.

Bah... in the next four years who knows what will happen, maybe we will invade the phillipines and indonesia in Pre emptive strikes????

Invading Iraq was meant to get rid of a potential threat to world security, there have been no WMD's found. Howard's and bush's response has been "well at least saddam has gone". But the real question is, is the world safer now? I'm disappointed labour didn't cane howard on this one.

Who gives a shit they are all the same anyway. But I guess it gives people someone to blame when things do not go the way they want.

Iam more worried about the senate, it looks like the libs will control this now, in which case telstra will be sold off soon, and alot of other policies which could be pout through that wouldn't have in the past.

Ditto, we are all doomed now. No senate to keep things in check. I never expected labor to win, but didnt expect libs to get complete control. Welcome to the newest state of USA. (if we werent that already).

Peter Garrett becomes the latest traitor accepted by Labor hall of shame. Perhaps he can go for a dirty threesome weekend with Cheryl and Gareth.

I feel a US invasion of Bankstown coming soon. I havent seen any evidence of them muslims NOT making WMD. They could have them buried anywhere. Johnny will support it. Now that all americans (apart from Bush) concede that there is no evidence and it is unlikely that any of the accusations ever existed, it is even more shocking. If there's no justification now, there was certainly no justification back then. How we can vote for a murderer is beyond me. Man of steel my arse. He's a man with the backbone of a jellyfish.

What a shame. Lies and deceit win again. Ready for another round of violating international laws? Bustards. If we're not there already, we'll be as unpopular as America soon overseas.:cry

What was the cost of fuel pre Howard, what will it be post Howard? I feel so much safer now, I can even remove my foil hat.

Andy42 wrote:Who gives a shit they are all the same anyway.

I think this is closer to the Mark!..... the Labour partys values are hardly recognisable to the Original movement
All politicians will consider their benefits always before ours!
I think Beasley will rule the roost again soon!
And It seems people don't vote for Bully's

Yeah im pretty disappointed with the labour party in this campaign. I think they lost because they couldnt really give any reason for australians to switch, no one likes change especially when we have been in the boom period of the economic cycle. The labour policies were all over the place and were unfocused unlike the libs. They were trying to be too much like the liberals and lost their normally large primary vote. With a recession on the forecast and a probably liberal control of the senate the next election should be interesting...

particularly if cross media ownership laws are relaxed and fairfax gets bought out, we might see a a more right slant to the media. Also without the checks and balances of the senate (with the balance of power looking like it might be held by a pentecostal church group) some not so nice legislation is going to get passed.

I dont want the united states of australia 🙁

[Edited on 11-10-2004 by Che Castro]

amazer wrote:How we can vote for a murderer is beyond me. Man of steel my arse. He's a man with the backbone of a jellyfish.

Check this out:
http://activism.greenpeace.org/voteforsquid/squid_msg.htm

Hmmm 5 days ago there was nothing to worry about, just vote liberal. Now... a message from the governor of the state of Australia. http://au.news.yahoo.com/021212/2/i77q.html

Seems the oil prices we pushed up are a serious threat and we are going to have cuts to other areas of government spending. Only 5 days until the first lie (or at best a 'mistruth')


It wasnt me.