extra oil cooler

ok i have a 1976 2 ltr automatic kombi and i got a vdo temp gauge fitted (sensor is attached via a hole under engine-mechanic fitted this-maybe into sump but im no mechanic) shortly after i bought it to keep an idea of whats going on-
its in very very good condition and the motor was rebuilt 3 years ago-compression isfine etc etc
anyway in summer; in brisbane, it runs at around 130-135 degrees at about 100kms/ hr
now the guy who installed it recommends an extra oil cooler be fitted to keep the engine in good condition and make it last longer
i normally slow down to keep it at 125 degrees
i have asked about 6 vw mechanics and its split 50-50
the ones who do install oil coolers say its a must the ones who dont say its a waste of time and money and that they are very prone to further oil leaks
i know that autos always run hotter than manuals
any opinions on this
thanks

[Edited on 11-1-2003 by azz]

anyone???

I have a 1978 Bus and I have an oil cooler fitted. My oil NEVER goes over 100 D/Cel.
Here is how I have it set up.
First there is one of those sandwhich blocks that goes between the oil filter and the engine block that routes oil to thre cooler as it gets hotter. (I think it is off a WRX-the hotter the oil the more a valve opens in the block to directs oil to the cooler and back to the engine)

Then I have my oil cooler mounted under the body of my bus, the cooler is one that is made of aluminium and it is the one that is used on Morris minors and Cooper "S" model cars. It is mounted forward of the gear box and to the left of the Centre line. It hangs down no more then the lowest point of the gear box.

I have just returned from Brissie last weekend and all was fine....even on the return when we got stuck at Buladealah in 35 deg heat doing 10lkm/h for 17 klm.

I think the main reason this set up works so fine is that then engine still uses the engines oil cooler. In ref to it leaking I would have to say that it DID up to about 4 weeks ago, then I got the guys (Shimo and Paul) at DUNHAM Motors to fix it. (Thanks heaps guys, it is running like a dream) The leak consisted of a little oil residue around the adaptor plate and the like.

If you can afford the set up, I would recommend it!

Regards
Kombiluva

PS Adaptor plate costs about $250, oil cooler $200 and oil lines about $100

my temp problems are easy fixed. I dont have a gauge. Wouldnt have a clue what the temps are, but I suspect that occasionally its too high. But no gauge = no probs! I once raced a BMW (i was a long way behind and he probably WASNT racing) the entire length of the F6, when I stopped at the end I had no oil pressure cos oil was too hot. Havent had the oil light problem again so i'm not panicing.

If I did have a gauge I think I would want it to go to over 100 though. maybe cover up part of the cooler.

I have an 14 row oil coller installed. It went in when I replaced the stock 1500 engine with 1916 thumper.it has never run hotter than 110( last wednesday 40 degrees in syd )this has got to be good for my engine.a kind of insurance.it is not a cheap exercise though.
sturck 14 row cooler $260
berg oil pump cover pickup $160
enzed hoses $200
extra 2 litres oil $10

sitting on the side of the road with a blown mill
Pricey.😠

i have been quoted around $750
is it worth it???
i think 99% of the kombis on the road dont have a oil temp gauge and are they all blowing up their engines???
my kombi runs beautifully now and i dont want to start problems by adding something thats not necessary

I'm running a 2L engine in our Baja Bus and have an external cooler mounted under the body which runs off the sandwhich block mentioned above. It doesn't hang any lower than the heater boxes and I've had no problems with clearance. I also have the air scoops on the side and the oil temp used to sit around 125degrees at 100km/h. I've since had a look at the jetting in the carbs and found it was jetted for a 1700. I had 130 mains and 175 airs. I changed to 135 mains and 155 airs and we did the Beach trip to Double Island point and the temp never got above 100degrees cruising at 100km/h or driving through the soft sand. On the way home we cruised at 110km/h and the temp reached 110degrees which is heaps better then before. If I pushed it before you could watch the temp climb and even a fan on the cooler couldn't bring the temp down, now I don't even have the fan fitted anymore and the temps are much more bearable.
Graham

I have Kombi 78 Bay. 2L auto. carbs.
Dont have guage. On recent trip to Brissy
I was concerned about eng temp, kept checking but was not a problem. I did take it fairly easy (100 on flats and 110 down hills but let the poor thing slow down up the hills). Now I did use PULP and made sure the advance was as much as safe. (retarded engines can get hotter).

so I probably wont be putting cooler on.

$750 for an oil cooler!!! :o:o:o .... It would want to come with a dry sump system!

well thats what i have been quoted to have it fitted from 2 places here in brisbane
1- custom off roads--stafford
2- manx buggies/vw centre-- coopers plains

maybe they were quoting 'worse case senario'

i will take the information you have given me and get back to them on what options i have
i am going to tenterfield next weekend so that should give me a fair indication of what my temps are doing on the longer drives

If you are worried about your oil temp on your bus, why don't you replace your dip stick with a "BERG temp sender".

This little gizmo works by replacing your dip stick with a thermomoter. You hook it up to your oil pressure sender in your engine bay. When your oil gets to HOT, your oil warning light on you dash will flicker.......time to slow down or if it comes on as a steady light, stop your engine.
It is calibrated to flicker on at 115 deg and come on at 125 deg......just before you do serious damage to the heads........


I believe they are worth about $60 and take about 5 minutes to fit yourself.

I think the above exercise would be a lot cheaper then fitting the oil cooler set ups as described above.


Cheers
Mick

kombiluva
i already have a temp gauge fitted so i know how hot its getting and i think it is too hot
i guess my main problem is working out WHO to believe-
1-the mechanics who say i MUST have an extra cooler fitted
2-the mechanics who say they are not neccessary and will only bring more trouble
* do you have one?

Azz,
I have just emailed you in ref to the tent/annex!

in ref to your Q: Yes I have both an oil cooler as I described above and the berg dipstick gizmo!

Cheers
Mick

$750 complete with colour TV & CD player.
I have sent You some info Azz.. I hope it helps. The reason that Mechanics tell You You don't need an external oil cooler is because they are seeing You as an Engine rebuild customer....
Lee:o😠

OK. Forum Members with External Engine OIL COOLERS FITTED - . DO External Oil Coolers cause any EXTRA Engine Problems???? as Azz has been told.... loose hose clamp?? If Quality Hose and fittings are used.. there should be NO problems...

Still NOT convinced.... carry a couple of containers of Engine oil , 4 Good Quality Hose clamps ..& ..a hose joiner with barbs to suit the oil hose You are using .... then if need be, disconnect the external oil cooler....
PS. I use 2 clamps on everything- if possible.[ from old rally days.]

The cooler itself wont cause anything more than a possible leak as you say. Just so long as you arent overcooling the engine. If fitted with a thermostat then you have no problems.

I mean a thermostat to control oil flow, not the stock thermostat controlling the flaps.

lee i hope you are not implying i buy the stuff necessary and fit it myself!?!?!?
holy hell!!
i know nothing about this at all- im a nurse not a mechanic
in my case its best left up to the professionals
but thanks for the info you sent it was very good and i will chase up some leads tomorrow

135C is a bit too high, even for a Kombi. I'm afraid I'm going to upset a few people, but I'm going to agree with Gene Berg on this one - you need to find out what is causing your oil temp to rise that much.

As for the cost of a cooler - I don't think your mechanics are trying to rip you off. In fact, someone who quotes you a suspiciously low price probably is. A corrrectly installed auxiliarey cooler needs to be included in the same circuit as the stock one, and needs to have a good fan attached. Cheapy "full-flow" systems will not allow your oil (and engine) to reach it's correct operating temperature quickly enough (or at all,)and have a tendancy to burst or develop leaky hoses, and those that sit over the engine's air intake will simply make the whole engine run hotter!

As for your overheating problem; get someone knowledgeable to look over your engine. Common problems are clogged oil cooler (expensive to replace, but usually just need a good clean,) general grime in the cooling system, defective thermostat (or jammed/bent flaps) and damage to the fan itself - oh, yeah: don't forget a stuffed exhaust can overheat your motor, too.

I have advised Azz to Use Steel braided Hydraulic Hose and fittings between the adaptor plate [with thermostat] and external oil cooler .... I used to Make up hydraulic hose with fittings at My last job. I didn't have to do it... I rather enjoyed it.
All by hand too... no fancy machines.. and they were less than 1/2 the price of EnZed & Pertek.... and using top Quality reuseable fittings.... 1450psi rating.
Never had One leak either....:o

thanks for everybodys help with this topic
i wish i had found this forum earlier
:kiss

im going to get this sorted asap

yeah i agree, try to find the cause of your problem before you start trying to cure the symptom. Is the engine caked in dirt and crap? give it a tune up and see how it goes.

its better to use hoses with threaded fittings at the end as they wont burst so easily, use a lightweight oil to prevent blowing hoses at startup like 5-40w

ive spoken with mick motors and they advise to
*leave it alone
*keep a well maintained motor
*good oil
*and most importantly drive at more appropriate time of the day- not 2pm when its 40 degrees

guess i will keep checking it out
i already keep my kombi well maintained

sorry sleepe3
i think the mechanic meant not to go on a long trip at that time of day etc etc
he seemed pretty reasonable and sounded like he knew what he was talking about
thats my main concern- who do i believe??
i have the funds for an external oil cooler but some very experienced vw mechanics-including one of 30 years- has never installed one and his engines dont have problems
everything in my engine is maintained by the best mechanics i can find- i never have any problems other than it runs hot
>125 degrees when i am pushing it at 100kms/hr
i have just started to use PULP and have just had a major service from Phoenix Engineering Services and i am going to drive from Brisbane to Tenterfield this saturday
i will stay on 90-95 kms/hr and see how i go
thanks for everyones help

come on people! Steel braided hoses are an expensive overkill. Bursting hoses? How much oil pressure are your cars running! You'll probably blow up the filter before a hose. Go buy some high temp oil hose and some hose clamps.

mine are rubber hoses but they have steel braiding underneath the outer rubber layer. They are 1/2" NPT threads i think, and they screw straight into my full flow adaptor.

i've never had any blowouts or anything, it just seems easier to use threaded fittings rather than having slip ons with clamps and stuff.

Ben i have emailed you about getting in contact and getting a quote
thanks for your help everyone
im going to do more research and saving
:thumb

Anyone know where you can source a good quality oil cooler matrix that is at least 8x8 in OZ, so I can fit a Davies Craig thermofan. I've got the Fabre Serck catalog, but it seems they don't carry the larger sizes I need.

Hi

Bergmeister, a 16 row Fabre worked fine on my brothers 2 Kombi, it was mounted on the front bumper. Just find a smaller fan. If you need a bigger cooler buy 2 130 row ones and run them in parallel.

There is no danger in fitting an external oil cooler, when fitting you need to use your brains and make sure the hoses don't rub etc. I think what Berg said about not needing bigger external coolers is not true. Ask anyone who runs a serious big motor built correctly and they all need the extra cooling at sometime, it depends on the weather.

I have been running a cooler at the front of my bug since the 70s and have never had a failure except a few years ago in peak hour traffic in George street Sydney CBD. I had the line fail right on a swaged fitting, I reckon it was Pertecs fault, they thought otherwise. I'm now using braided line from the sandwich block for about 300 mm then it goes back to 1/2 rubber line.

1302Steve

Here's how I keep my engine cool. the lines are pretty short, they run from holes tapped into the block where the dog house cooler used to be. I use 150psi hydraulic hose from enzed. The cooler is a 96 plate messer cooler with a davis craig thermo fan. All up this set up owes me about $250 but it's a tight fit. The oil will get to about 85-95 around town and on the freeway in summer. Sometimes I forget to put the thermo fan on and it climbs a little above 100. Push the car around Eastern Creek for 3 laps on a bloody hot day and it gets up to 125 which is where my guage ends. Luckily Castrol GP50 is good to 150.
I've runs some ducting up to the cooler but I can't determine if it makes any difference.

P.S the engine is a 1916 with 9.5:1 CR and Street Eliminators.

CYA, CT

ok now you see how little i know!
have we been talking about 2 different types of oil cooler here or is there only one?
i have an oil cooler in my motor already dont i- its standard!
do i replace that with something that can have hoses fitted to it that travel to another external cooler under the van somewhere?
do i replace the present oil cooler with a bigger and better one?
how many options are there?
like i have said before- I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS!!!!!
im a nurse and if you get sick and are in intensive care IM YOUR MAN!!!
but cars????? nothing!!
you guys all seem to know your stuff and make it sound really easy--but its not!!
i have spoken to MICK MOTORS (this websites sponsor) and he catagorically states that he is against fitting an external oil cooler
he believes that they arent necessary and will only bring trouble
HE EVEN QUESTIONS THE ACCURATENESS OF THE OIL TEMP GUAGE
what is the best way to measure oil temp?

lotsa questions needing lotsa answers
i have been supplied with some elephant ears and will put them on today
going to tenterfield tomorrow so i will see how my temp sits with those

thanks for all your time and help

There are hoses and there are hoses.. if You know the difference between the good & the rubbish use reinforced rubber oil hose.... I just didn't want to be responsible for AZZ in having a blown engine due to a cheap & nasty oil hose or fitting letting go.... The reusable hydraulic hose fittings are the best... as I said I never had one fall off or blow.. but I was using the BEST but still worked out less than 1/2 the cost of Perteks etc in which the connectors are NOT reusable and are crimped on with a Machine.... about 1/4 as good as a hand screwed on fitting. We are NOT talking of Major runs of hose here either, only short lengths. Anyway Ben Durie knows what He's doing... I WILL say that Steel braid Hose IS a Bit of OVER KILL... Apoligies... a Good quality oil hose & Fittings made by a Major Manufacturer such as Duffield will no doubt do the job just as Well....

amazer wrote:come on people! Steel braided hoses are an expensive overkill. Bursting hoses? How much oil pressure are your cars running! You'll probably blow up the filter before a hose. Go buy some high temp oil hose and some hose clamps.

😀:o:bounce

68autobug you still havent helped me- i dont have the mechanical knowledge to understand what you are saying- i DO appreciate it though
BUT i have now installed my elephant ears and they HAVE helped!!
they really work!!!
ive just been driving around brisvegas for the last hour in heavy traffic and it didnt get over 110 degrees!!
tomorrow will be the big test though
Tenterfield here i come!!

ps can anyone tell me the most accurate way to measure oil temp
any stats on vdos and how accurate they are?
more than two mechanics (well respected) dont believe my van runs that hot and believe its inaccurate

azz. with your 2 litre type 4 you need to get a sandwhich plate that goes between the oil filter and the engine. There are 2 types. One with a thermostat and one without. I urge you to use a thermostat one so you dont run too cool. 2 hoses connect to the sandwich plate. One takes oil to the cooler the other brings oil back. You dont remove your original cooler. Oil cooler can be mounted anywhere on a kombi. there's no ground clearance issues. and you only need a small cooler if you need one at all.

I dont think you should need one on a standard engine but it cannot possibly hurt if you use decent hose. Dont get hose from hardware house/bunnings or even the car parts chains. Go to pirtek, enzed/duffield etc. Tell them what it is used for and they will sort you out. Their business is 99% oil hose. Take your oil cooler and sandwich plate there and they will give you fittings for them with the right threads etc. You dont wnat crimped on fittings with braided hose. Its not necessary.

reading temperature: I use an Autometer gauge in my kombi. Its mechanical and it sits in the oil line to the cooler. Note: to the cooler not from the cooler. You want to know how hot you are getting not how good your cooler is working. It is very accurate as far as I can tell. It reads very slightly under 100 when in a boiling pot of water. Which is good cos 100 degree water is bubbling off to the sky. I use autometer cos I sent my mum to bergs and they told her "we dont use VDO cos they're crap" so she got me autometer. I dont know if they ARE crap or not. Autometer certainly are not crap. I think mechanical gauges must be more accurate than electrical.

What some people do is remove the thermostat cos they break and are relatively unobtainable. Which is OKish so long as the flaps are still installed underneath your tinware. If they are installed and stuck down then at least the air is being directed to the right place. You can see if your flaps are installed. At the top of the fan housing there should be a thin rod running from right to left. See if thats there first. There should be a spring in the right hand side. Try turning the rod with a pair of pliers and make sure it springs back.

yep amazer its there
it didnt really 'spring' back until i gave it a bit of wd40 treatment- now its 'springing' fine
so where is the original oil cooler- can i see it without taking the engine out?
i havent a clue where it is

thanks for your help everybody

the oil cooler sits just behind the fan housing on the left hand side. If you look from underneath you can see it.

well since fitting my 'elephant ears' the oil temp hasnt been over 120 degrees even when i was driving over 100 km/hr and it was 40 degrees that day
so i might just leave it be and see what happens
thanks for everybodys help and advice
but thanks mostly to alecs ears

[Edited on 22-1-2003 by azz]

I know this won't help but at Bergs web site in an artical he has stated that all gauges he has tested can be as much as 50° out. Is this just more missimformation leftover from the 60s. Whats eveyones thoughts.

Cheers Nige

i have always queried the accuracy of my oil temp guage-
there doesnt seem to be any info on variances in the temp measured and real temp
is there any way to check them for real

NE1 know how much those dipstick senders cost ?

I think Gene must have been on some waccy tobaccy that day. Maybe HIS gauge was the one that was a long way out. Or maybe the ones he tested were from the Dapto markets. Or maybe he didnt want us cutting holes in the dash. Or maybe he got some dipstick senders made up in mexico and was trying to flog them off.

Dave the Pom
1- who checks ignition timing? my mechanic?
2-how do i check it against a known guage? who is likely to have one?
3-if i throw away my sump guage what do i put in the whole to plug it up?
4-do i have a fan? if so how do i clean it?
5-how do i check if i am not running front
and rear engine tins and cooking my engine nicely?
6-where do i get a berg engine sender?

i thought i was doing rather nicely considering it was 40 degrees, i was doing 100 km/hr and i was running under 120 degrees
what do you think?
remember to keep your answers simple for the lay person---no mechanical knowledge at all
i still dont even know where the oil filter is

Azz, I'd start by buying yourself a workshop manual. 🙂

1- he does. But you could do it yourself very easily if you bought your own timing light.
2-Drop the sender into a pot of boiling water.
3-You can buy plugs from pirtek/enzed etc. Or you could whack on another sump plate.
4-when you open the lid and look in, you see a round thing with a belt staring at you. Thats it. Doesnt look like your average car/house fan with propellor type blades, but thats the fan. You will see straight away if there is anything blocking it.
5-The entire engine should be sealed off against the body of the car. You should have a foam 'snake' running around the entire engine sealing it to the body. If there are gaps, something is missing.

6-leaving this one alone.

I reckon under 120 is OK. For what ists worth.

Lay on the ground and you will see the oil filter on the left hand side of the engine. right near the oil cooler.

[Edited on 23-1-2003 by amazer]

the accuracy of the gauge at one temperature doesnt give u much of an idea of accuracy at other temps.

Anyway they give u a relatively good idea of how hot its gettin.

excellent
i am leaving this topic alone
thanks for the help gang