Custom Offroad Conversion - EJ22 Proto Done !!!

Well after what seems like a very long time we have our Prototype EJ22 Conversion on the road. All is well and hopefully it will stay that way as it it driving back home to Townsville Tommorrow ...... now that is confidence.

I will let you guys know how it goes. So far it is AWESOME and we will be doing our 3 Buses ASAP.

Go the water pumpers .......

keep us posted mate cause im interested

Well I can verify that it goes very well. Nice strong pulling power and the benifit of it starting the minute you hit the key. Now to see how one goes in a buggy.

Nice one Brad.
Any photos?

No time for Photos this babby has a date with the Highway in just under 16 hrs and after it cools I have a few modifications to make and then another test session...

well I hear it made it to Townsville ok.. Had a few monor issue that we will sort out over the next week or so.

It seems it now gets around 700 km per 60 L of fuel .... try that with your air cooled kombi engine ?

Initial signs are that this is well worth the effort and after a few weeks in the townsville heat and a/c on we willknow if it works ...

Pics to follow.

That would have to be the best drive I've had for a long time.:thumb:thumb To anyone looking at getting a reliable and economic motor shoved in your Kombi's arse that pulls to over 120 kmh in 3rd gear while your asleep:thumb:thumb then go see Brad and the gang at Custom Offroad!!!! Left Brisbane Saturday arvo at 545 pm and drove to Rocky for a short sleep before continuing onto Townsville. stopped in Bowen to visit the olds and loaded up with 400 kg of fertilizer before continuing onto Townsville. The car didn't miss a beat and used bugger all fuel (58 liters from Brisbane to Rockhampton) which is better than our new mazda 6 could get!!!! Will post pictures sometime this week. Thanx Brad and the gang for a job well done!!:beer:beer Oh...nice meeting you also Heather!!!:blah

Here are some pics. Note the thing underneath is the Air Con Condensor and is nothing to do with the conversion.
















[Edited on 15-11-2004 by Buggy Brad]

quite tasteful 😎

When all the black bits are painted blue you wont even know it is there..

Thanx for the run in it mick, I am glad u made it back and all is ok! I was explaining to thorun how custom offroad is like a big toyshop full of overgrown boys! lol..

Hey have you punched some holes in the exhaust yet?

:bounce I am officially converted.........vrooommmmmm :bounce

hehe well bring in your baja and some folding green and we will cure your addiction and turn it into a love affair....

Brad,

Did you save the blow off valve for the ute ????

Puh-chhhhhhhhhhhhssssht

Turned out very well.

Cheers

Scotty

Methinks I will next year! :bounce bugger this trying to get the wooden spoon at shows thing............ 😉

$2.63 homebrand baja wrote::bounce I am officially converted.........vrooommmmmm :bounce

You would be even more converted if you saw how i've been driving it now that I'm on my own turf:thumb:thumb. Still trying to find something major wrong but it has yet eluded me...:duh Oh well....nothing to do but keep on trying:bounce

how much did it cost for the full conversion??


Anthony

Drive in Drive out with all approvals is $7700 for kombi and we are currently confirming beetle costs. The engine comes with a 3mth warranty.

thats awsome good pricing

we are still looking at trying to get it down a little but the problem there is you start to cut corners and end up with a crap product. When you take into account the engine, radiator, fans, adapter, clutch, VSS and ECU Stuff, Exhaust, hoses, wiring, fuel pump, etc etc it adds up prett damn quick.

I have a few ideas on how to reduce the cost without loosing quality but I will need volume to make it happen which I don't think will be any time soon.

My intial intent was to get it out the door for around the $5000 mark as I had been told that another shop here in Brissy was doing them for $4000 :o drive in / out ..... With my current figures this is impossible. Here is a part list for interest:

EJ22 Engine Package - $1400
Modified Loom - $250
ADapter and Flywheel - $660
2L Clutch kit - $270
EFI Fuel Pump - $200
VSS Solution - $150
Radiator Hose - $700
Radiator and Thermo's - $1200
VDO Temp Guage and Sendor - $50
Custom Exhaust - $700
Blue Plate - $120
EJ Sump Kit - $440
EJ throttle body invertor - $120
EJ Series Crossmember - $220
Stainless Header tank - $180

So we are $6660 and we haven't included Fuel Filters, EFI Fuel Line, clamps, fueses, relays, bull bar, heaps of other small stuff or any labour for the install.

We intend to offer a full line of Off the Shelf conversion parts for the EJ 22 into Kombi as of 1 jan 04. Thsi will allow people to do the conversion themselves and save $$$ on things such as cheaper cooling solutions and labour.

I would have given up on the idea but when you price up rebuilidng a Type 4 engine and all it's accesories and then drive a fresh type 4 kombi and an Ej22 powered kombi the extra couple of grand is well worth it ... add air con and you have the perfec vehicle....

Congrats on a job well done.

should have another 3 on the road by Xmas so that should test the ideas out well before 1 Jan 04 :>

3 more Kombi's !!! or you got something else showing it's self !
When's the first buggy gonna hit the streets / sand ?

3 more kombi's and at least 1 buggy but probably a buggy and a Baja .... if Terry gets of his ass :>

He's putting one in his Baja then i guess !!! Working there he should have it half doen by now shouldn't he !
I guess the buggy would be yours ! This gonna be the megge manx ?
See your old blue/orange buggy here at the airport when the slacker drives it in !!!!
I just trying to talk the mrs into letting me have one !!! Getting there slowly !!!

hehe yeah 1/2 done ... the next 5 EJ 22's should arrive this week so they are in at least.

The buggy is mine as is one Kombi, teh other kombi's are the Single cab ute and another one we have.

She should let you have one they are cool :>

Your not wrong. She is getting there slowly. BUt thinks the 4 cars we have are enough and i Should really part with one before get the next !!!
But ya just got to have toys !!!

Can it be done with an EJ25? How much would it be likely to cost?

KruizinKombi wrote:Can it be done with an EJ25? How much would it be likely to cost?

Yeap sure can. Brad has an EJ25 in stock now he is trying to find a home for.

From my understanding of it, Ej20,22, and 25 all share the same block and look the same, have the same dimensions etc. Rumour has it 25's have thiner walls due to the boring and therefor have problems witth the water jacket. EJ25's also has less effiecient heads I believe.

Oh nearly forgot, you'd have to check 100% with brad but the price for the 25 will be pretty close to the same.

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by MikeM]

I think what COR are doing is cool. And I have a 3 Buggies and 2 Kombis of my own in the que to be converted to the dark side.

I like what they've done to the prototype but when I get them to do my kombi I think I'll add some towel rails, just to break the radiator up a bit. What do you guys think?

Before:


and after:

yes go for the towel rails, i like the size of the rad not too obvious like mine it sticks out like dogs......

on another note what other rad positions have been used in the proto, i think i read somewhere you guys had it mounted on the underside of the kombi? how did it work?
cheers
wacked1

withthe crew cab, why couldnt you mount it under the tray infront of the rear wheels. that spave is not really that accesable, espesh on a dcab. then jsut have some bay flutes on each side.

twoguns wrote:withthe crew cab, why couldnt you mount it under the tray infront of the rear wheels. that spave is not really that accesable, espesh on a dcab. then jsut have some bay flutes on each side.

Just my opinion, Brad will need to answer but:

I think you'll find that COR were trying to come up with a prototype solution that would work on ALL kombis. If there was more than one option it would increase cost etc. The fact that the prototype was a DC was just coincidence.

On a ute a rad under the tray would work, but you'd need to get it airflow. there is heaps of airflow out the front 🙂

twoguns wrote:withthe crew cab, why couldnt you mount it under the tray infront of the rear wheels. that spave is not really that accesable, espesh on a dcab. then jsut have some bay flutes on each side.

I don't think you would get enough airflow through and the thermo fans would be on non stop. Might possibly mount my AC condenser in that spot to get it out from under the vehicle but time will tell.😎

Looks great.

Very neat install, job well done.

Good to see someone has finally costed out the job, instead of saying you can do for $1000 !!!!







[Edited on 18-11-2004 by Craig Torrens]

Brad said he has no interest in doing an EJ 20 or 25 until he knows every pin out on the EJ22's ECU. Also he is not happy that they EJ25 has the reliability he is after in a conversion. They have head issues and give little improvemnet in performance over the 22.

What we are trying to do it develope a bolt on solution so we can cost it to the dollar and give people the bill upfront, no more silly figures and huge bills. If they say yes then they know it is going to be $7700 drive away.

We are happy to hide the radiator up the back and underneath but you will not see change from $10 000 as development time cost $$$$$$$.

mmm man it drive so nice .... my Baja is going to be sooooo coooooool

part of the push for the EJ22 was that it is a single overhead cam motor and therefore fits places alot easier than the dual overhead cam EJ20 and EJ25's.

BTW Craig, I can say it can be done for $1000 because that's what I did mine for and I have fully listed the costing :P

But of course doing it myself saved lots of $$$, and I don't have a fancy custom aluminium radiator or tidy loom like the COR conversions, and I also sold my VW motor for $2300 to further reduce the conversion cost to me 🙂

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by Baja Wes]

:duh :duh
" No improvement in performance with an EJ25 over an EJ22?"
That it most definately not what is being said on other conversion forums. I would like to see more discussion on this please!
Have a look at the HP and torque graphs at
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/subaruvanagon/files/%20Subaru%20HP%20and%20Torque%20Graphs/

and tell me what you think.

I agree that the EJ25 is a more maxed out engine and has a history of more coolant problems as a result this.
Of course the EJ25 also comes in a SOHC version.

Andy.

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by type2nut]

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by type2nut]

cool. thanks for that. am working towards this myself oneday. when ready i might need to talk to you guys, and the price will probably be sweet by then too.

Ok about the ej25. I have been told buy many reputable buiders here that you are far better to get an ej20 stroked to 2.5L as they end up stronger and a load more torque then the factory ej25. The strokers have larger bores and a larger stroke then the ej20 You can buy a brand new stroker short block from teh states to your door for around $3500 then just use your heads and cams from an ej20.
BUT if you are chassing Ground clearance then stay away from the quad(twin perside) cam as you can not get your exhausts tight enough out of the heads to help you out with out loosing power. Or do as I will with my buggy and run a big ass bash plate and live with having to drag your ass over teh rocks.

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by Andy42]

type2nut wrote::duh :duh
" No improvement in performance with an EJ25 over an EJ22?"
That it most definately not what is being said on other conversion forums. I would like to see more discussion on this please!
Have a look at the HP and torque graphs at
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/subaruvanagon/files/%20Subaru%20HP%20and%20Torque%20Graphs/

and tell me what you think.

I agree that the EJ25 is a more maxed out engine and has a history of more coolant problems as a result this.
Of course the EJ25 also comes in a SOHC version.

Andy.

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by type2nut]

[Edited on 18-11-2004 by type2nut]

The EJ22 has enough power. I would not bother with the EJ25 as the power increase is not justified for the loss of reliability. That's just my opinion though. This motor was installed and as soon as it was finished it was driven 1400km with no problems. I have now done over 2500km with no hassels. I'm sure Brad would have liked to have it for longer but I also enjoy testing things out:thumb:thumb

There is more to performance that HP .... The 25's are causing head issues in the Subaru I would hate to think what may happen in the VW conversion.

yes the 25 has more HP then again so does the SVX which will be my next engine once I have the 22 sorted out. From all reports they are the next option up the scale.

On a down sid the Climate Control in the Subaru's maybe unusable in the kombi due to the extent of intergration in teh subaru, ....... damn at least cruise control is sweet :duh

No doubt that the EJ22 is a great engine that has been proven good and reliable over a long time. More than a decade now.

Much of my opinion has been derived from 3 or 4 people here in Aus that have EJ25's in there T3 vans, and from the Subaruvanagon group people that have been putting Subaru engines in their vans for a long time. They started with 22's but many of them are now considering upgrades to 25's and 33's. Why would they be doing this?

Personally I would love to have an EG33 but I have concerns over the ability of a Syncro tranny to handle that much torque.

As I referred to in the link above, the torque curves of the SOHC 25's seem to be substantially better than the 22, particularly for off road use. Maybe this is where we are differing in opinion???
I am quite happy to agree to disagree but this is an interesting topic and worthy of further discussion.

Where can we get stroked EJ20's from and in to the country for $3500? And why aren't the Yankee conversion folk using them I wonder.

Andy.

Don't worry about the towel rails... photoshop it painted the same colour as the car. it would probably all but disappear.

Sunspares in brissy can get you the strokers as can MRT in Sydney ( I think) and PerFOURmance at slacks Creek. The guy from sunspares was the one who told me the price and siad that was a firm price.

DO we have EJ 25 SHC engines in Aus ? I thought they were Double ??

Yes we do. That is, one cam per head. I don't know the exact dates, but from somewhere about 98 or 99 I think, most of the EJ25 engines were SOHC versions. All the new Foresters and I imagine some of the other cars come with this engine.

Brad, did you use all Subie parts for the cruise control or after market?

Andy.

[Edited on 19-11-2004 by type2nut]

The advantage of the earlier (prob pre 95?) engines is that they are OBD1 and not OBDII. That means you can wire in a little switch that you can flick and then read the error codes (from the ECU) with the engine warning light. That's why I went for an early 90's front cut for my conversion.

and they are cheaper.

I will be trying to use Subie parts for the cruise control. I have the half cut now and am just waiting on the kombi,

mm goto test the engines out ... here she is in the car before we pulled it ...

good work guys!!!! great to see this happening i can already hear a suby engine in my kombi :P know where did i plant them money tree's????
how about this guys i donate my kombi to use guys to fit a subi engine conversion u do as much testing as u like and then u give it back to me with the engine still intact??? come on you know ya wanna!!! ill even do the test driving :P
cheers
rhys

mmm no ..

That engine must be sus Brad, 1000rpm to go!!
:duh

Baja Wes wrote:BTW Craig, I can say it can be done for $1000 because that's what I did mine for and I have fully listed the costing :P


[Edited on 18-11-2004 by Baja Wes]

Just making a general statement, not aimed at you wes.:kiss

:cry

Very Tidy Indeed, EXCELLENT JOB!.....I wish there was that much room in the back of the bug!

Just curious......how big is your expansion tank, with all that extra water I have been told that when they warm up they will overflow a standard size tank.

Matt

It has a standard expansion tank by the looks of it. It has dropped about 2 1/2-3 inches from the top when fully cooled. Heaps of water left in it.😀

type2nut wrote:No doubt that the EJ22 is a great engine that has been proven good and reliable over a long time. More than a decade now.

Much of my opinion has been derived from 3 or 4 people here in Aus that have EJ25's in there T3 vans, and from the Subaruvanagon group people that have been putting Subaru engines in their vans for a long time. They started with 22's but many of them are now considering upgrades to 25's and 33's. Why would they be doing this?

Personally I would love to have an EG33 but I have concerns over the ability of a Syncro tranny to handle that much torque.

As I referred to in the link above, the torque curves of the SOHC 25's seem to be substantially better than the 22, particularly for off road use. Maybe this is where we are differing in opinion???
I am quite happy to agree to disagree but this is an interesting topic and worthy of further discussion.

Andy.

type2nut wrote:Yes we do. That is, one cam per head. I don't know the exact dates, but from somewhere about 98 or 99 I think, most of the EJ25 engines were SOHC versions. All the new Foresters and I imagine some of the other cars come with this engine.

Brad, did you use all Subie parts for the cruise control or after market?

Andy.

[Edited on 19-11-2004 by type2nut]

yeah, my preference would be the ej25 as well. it's the engine that i hope to use for my bay kombi conversion (due to budgetry constraints. i would love the 3.2 flat 6 from the 911 carrera (83-88), or the last of the air cooled's the 3.6 from the 933 911 but that won't be happening any time soon)

as andy said, it was the new liberty 98/99 (can't remember the exact date) that the ej25 sohc was introduced to aust. in. At the time the motoring press said it ran smoother, that u could notice the better low-end torque, and was just generally nicer than the dohc it replaced. The imprezza rs and forrester in later years and now use the sohc ej25, but in slightly detuned guise.

you can also get the sohc as a jap import as well (with slightly more power)

surely reliability issues wouldn't be an issue in the ej25 for every day use. the ej25 also makes a proportionate incease in power & torque over the ej22 which i'm sure you'd notice once in the back of your kombi. and they're about the same price as the ej22 as an import too. i'm not saying the ej22 wouldn't be a good match for the kombi, and definately not saying this conversion package isn't good either, it sounds great that there's more people out there making such a conversion available for people like me that wouldn't have a clue how to do it themselves [insert embarrassed icon here 🙂 ] it just seems that the ej25 seems to always be overlooked.

[Edited on 24-11-2004 by kombi kountry]

The early EJ25's with DOHC had a lot of head issues. That is why they are over looked. If you price a SHOC EJ25 you will find they are rare and expensive. The EJ22 was selecetd for a number or reasons, price being one of them.

Once I have mastered the EJ22 Conversion then I will look into other engines. As it currently sits I have 7 EJ22's sitting on the floor in the workshop, all earmarked for VW powered cars. After those 7 I will be happy that all bugs are sorted and that know enough to look at other options. The EJ33 will be in my kombi not long after that.

The problem in this game is to many people pretend to have a good understanding of an engine and the conversion. The only way I can see myself and my guys getting this in one step at a time, the EJ22 being the firts step. Judging by the number of phone calls and the interest we are getting there is quite a few people out there who are looking for such a source. This is why we sell every component seperately so you can use them to install any EJ series engine you like.

sorry, should of made it clear that i was refering to the sohc ej25 in my last post and when talking about reliability and being over-looked. it is the sohc that i would prefer. :blush

[Edited on 24-11-2004 by kombi kountry]

Hey Brad,

What are you planning for radiators in the buggies? Just mount them behind the bash plate up front, or fit them in the back somewhere? ... just curious

J

up front in the bar, good cooling, good protection and you can keep an eye on them.

mmm...just in case anyone is interested.

I have the Ej25 Dohc motor. Once I got all my wiring bugs sorted I have to say, it is a sweet motor. It idles at around 700rpm, pulls really nicely from 1500revs right up to the red line and is super smooth all the way. It is deceptively quick even with the big tyres on the back. Although, that said, I could comfortably short shift a 2000 revs and drive all round the city all day like that. I would not swap it for an Ej22.

But, Brad is right in what he says. Ej22s are a bucketload cheaper. I payed nearly $4k for my motor and that was not a front cut. Wish I had got a front cut. Also, the parts are more available and cheaper than both sohc and dohc Ej25s.

Brad is also right about cost and reliablility. Some Ej25s do have head gasket issues, something I am fearful of myself. Also, they are not significantly more powerful than the Ej22.

If you want power, buy an Ej20T.

If you want bang for buck and reliability go with the Ej22. After all that's why we all want Subie motors anyway isn't it?

Plug leads EJ 22 - $90 set
Plug leads EJ25 - $160 set

It just keeps going.

This is an old post!!! After nearly 2 years of absolute trouble free motoring it's time to say goodbye to my inbred Kombi. I've enjoyed owning it and would highly reccommend to anyone to get this conversion done and have absolute trouble free motoring.Hope the new owner has as much fun driving it as i did.It will make it's last voyage with me on Saturday and will be a teary fairwell as i say goodbuy to water cooled VW's for now......a little while anyway...maybe??? For the $$ spent it has been well worth it for the conversion,even my wife who hates VW's is sad to see it go.That says something..Thanx again COR for a quality job.:kiss Now I'll have to "love" my Manx....:kiss

oh well, at least the manx has a subie, right?

BTW, I should just mention. In the 2 years my EJ25 powered car has been regoed, the only engine components to have failed are an ECU relay ($10 to replace from a local wrecker) and the ECU itself due to water damage on the weekend. The latter was my own stupid fault for not not properly sealing the box it lived in. Aside of those two things the car has never failed get me home and it runs cool and smooth like it was factory fitted. The bits that frustrate me about the car are the bit VW made and the bits I made.

You have to love a subie boxer.😏

so did the suby conversion help the resale price?

In the 3 and a bit years my V6 has been going nothing has gone wrong with the engine itself. :thumb

I destroyed a cheap import clutch plate, but I could've done that with the VW motor I reckon. And my first surge tank design was flawed and caused intermittent engine cuts after 40min of running.

Baja Wes wrote:so did the suby conversion help the resale price?

I would say it would have raised the sale price if i had wanted more money than what I sold it for.....if you get my drift:jesus It Certainly sped up the sale though,like i didn't really advertise it and it sold within 3 days.....and i got what i wanted so all is well. The new owner has an airconditioned Kombi that will sit on 100 plus all day and still have power to overtake or tow.

Buggy Brad wrote:Here are some pics. Note the thing underneath is the Air Con Condensor and is nothing to do with the conversion.
















[Edited on 15-11-2004 by Buggy Brad]

Hi Mick...is/was this yours? what rad is that and was the big steel bumper under the bumper cut to fit it? I like the look...thanx

Yes..this ute was mine...sold it a month ago. Best to contact Brad at COR on (07)33564356. System was excellent!!! Would reccommend!

Michael

Does anyone have any pics or info on the rear mount

Cheers

This one from COR?