Alfasud 1500 in vw?

I know it's probably heresy to even think it but I was just wondering if anyone's put an alfasud boxer into a bug? They seem to produce much more power than a vw 1500?

Her're the three engines from the sud, sprint and veloce
301.24 1490cc 84bhp
301.28 1490cc 95bhp
301.46 1490cc 105bhp

try this, www.ricola.co.uk

he had one in a 356 replica, saw the light and went to a ej20t 😎

[Edited on 5-3-2005 by pete wood]

Even old beetles dont rust enough to warrant an alfaspud donk.
Not too reliable either.

subie is cheaper

i dunno. I can get a 1984 sud for $250 with a healthy engine. Be very lucky to find a subie for that.

So have a go then

I am tempted but is it a stupid idea?

where is the power difference?
Is it just the belt-driven cams or some other aspect?

I'm pretty sure the carbs are just 36 Dellortos - the same as my 1600.

Email Ricola and talk to him, he's doing a EJ20T convo into a cab at the mo, sheck out the non-VW engines catagory.

Thanks. I've emailed him and I'll see what he reckons. Looks like it's a pretty tight fit, but then so is the ej

considered earlier scoobi engines? there was a sports model of the ea81 released with something like 155BHP!

Go on Rob, i lurve these motors even with there faults, dare to be differnt, enery one is using soobies, they go rarther hard and well and sound ace, do it do it do it!

Andy

The Sprint Veloce engine is a great engine, they rev like crazy and really get up and going. Keep us informed please of any intersting info you find. There is also a 1700 Boxer motor out of the Alfa 33 which is also a boxer motor.

Freddie Fender wrote:The Sprint Veloce engine is a great engine, they rev like crazy and really get up and going. Keep us informed please of any intersting info you find. There is also a 1700 Boxer motor out of the Alfa 33 which is also a boxer motor.

I know nothing about the Alfa motors - but I would have thought this would be a better option, especially if you go to all the effort of the conversion.

I wonder how wide these are though, being 16 valve? The SOHC Subis look to fit reasonably easily, and the quad cams look like a case of "fit the car to the motor", I wonder if the Alfa motor might be the same case?

Cheers
Jeremy

The alfa motors are wider indeed. Not as reliable and easy to install as subaru EJ 20 and EJ 22. I would recommend you to go for a subaru motor. I have a picture of a conversion somewhere will post it when I find it.

baybuscamperkid wrote:considered earlier scoobi engines? there was a sports model of the ea81 released with something like 155BHP!

if you can find it that is. for $350, he can set the car up for a watercooled engine and slip in an ej20T when it dies 😉

Here the pics of the alfa boxer conversion. Well done but not what I want my bug to look like.

Even the bonnet got to be cut to get it in.

and one more

That's a lot to cut out! Plus that's in a late Beetle. It would only be tighter in an earlier model...

the alfa sud engine was a comman replacement for vw's in the uk,i have seen shed loads if splittys,bays and bugs with them and for the most part they work very well indeed. for the size they produce great power right through the range and as long as you look after it it will last a life time... personaly i love the sud engine and if you can find one get the cloverleaf tti engine... fastest by far and comes in the whole range of engine sizes go one as someone already said be different and put a screemer in you car :thumb



steff..............................

Yeah I've got the cloverleaf one now (paid for it last night) but I'm going to get it really worked for my little brother and then we'll see who's car is better through the twisties: my 205 gti or his sud. Then after he's put money into tuning it and stacks it in a supermarket carpark I'll pull the engine out and give it a go! :thumb

Oh and I forgot I got a reply from the guy who's done it a few times:

"unless you flip the rear engine cradle with an IRS bug I think the heads will stick through the rear valance, so I wouldn't do it on a bug again. Mostly due to availability of spares and themuch better Subaru option! It is an easy swap though...
Rich"

Kindo turned me off it a bit, as well as that picture above, but I think that might be the later 1700?

lol, that would be me then!

I've seen people get them to fit better than the pic above, but not much... A couple of people have slightly modified the profile of the rear valance/wings to completely cover it all.

Rich

ruckus wrote:Oh and I forgot I got a reply from the guy who's done it a few times:

"unless you flip the rear engine cradle with an IRS bug I think the heads will stick through the rear valance, so I wouldn't do it on a bug again. Mostly due to availability of spares and themuch better Subaru option! It is an easy swap though...
Rich"

Kindo turned me off it a bit, as well as that picture above, but I think that might be the later 1700?

mmm

Well with that in mind the Subaru 1800 EJ18 would be the better bet, still has 110Hp, and should also be quite cheap.

And they are actaully available here in NZ, the EJ22 is apparently hard to find? (But I have one in an old Legacy!)

Being a SOHC it appears to fit reasonably well, and you can always upgrade to a EJ22 later if you want more umph

Jeremy

lol@pug "v" sud racing

gota love the off the showroom floor handling and go of the 205,has to be one of the best to this day.. then again the sud in its day was a rocket just a little scary on the twisty stuff, still head to head think the pug will come out on top.....


steff...........................

yeah that's what I'm hoping, especially after what I've spent on the little bastard!

ps sorry Rich, should have quoted my sources :thumb

Ok Update!!!


Turns out my brother bailed on the project, but I'm now wondering whether the engine would be better suited to a notch?

I found this pic the other day of an Alfa motor in a Beetle...

That looks like an injected 1.4 like someone on here is putting in. Fits quite nicely!


Do you know anything about this car?

ruckus wrote:That looks like an injected 1.4 like someone on here is putting in. Fits quite nicely!


Do you know anything about this car?

I do.

That car is owned by a dutch guy. I had some e-mail contact with him, because I am also planning a conversion to an Alfa Romeo engine. I allready bought the 1.4 fuel injected engine.

The car in the picture has a 1.7 litre engine in it. Both his 1.7 and my 1.4 are SOHC. These will fit (tight fit) in the engine bay without moving the tranny forward. Earlier in this post (on the first page) is a picture of a Alfa converted beetle with the cut-outs in the fenders and rear engine lid. That engine is a DOHC and, as you could see, doesn't really fit well.

With the SOHC engines you have to modify the rear bumper brackets, to make room for the distribution belts.
I you look closely at the pictures of the yellow bug you'll notice the bumper brackets are further apart then stock... nicely done hey?

I have some pictures 0f his modifications, do you want to see them?

I made a web-page bout my conversion. Not much on it, cause I'm just starting... :

http://home.tiscali.nl/~gmolhoek

Greetings,
Gerrelt.nn[ Edited on 20/8/2005 by gerrelt ]

Great site Gerrelt, thanks for the link, and the info on the yellow bug.

Good luck with your conversion, let us know how you get on. I like your thinking..."not to big, because that would be uneconomical" (especially as Petrol prices sky rocket) "and I'd have to upgrade the rest of the car"

Cheers
Jeremynn[ Edited on 21-8-2005 by Jeza ]

Thanks for sharing gerrelt. So what Alfas did the injected SOHC engines come in? And what sort of hp/torque do the produce?

ruckus wrote:Thanks for sharing gerrelt. So what Alfas did the injected SOHC engines come in? And what sort of hp/torque do the produce?

The SOHC (8v) fuel injected boxer engine was in the Alfa Romeo 33 and in the Alfa Romeo 145.

The 33 had the 1.4 and 1.7 which had about 90 hp and 110. The 1.4 33 only had injection from 1992 to 1994. The 1.7 had it from 1990 to 1994.

The 145 (newer model than the 33) had a boxer engine from 1994 to 1997. After that, the 145 switched to an in-line engine (probably because of lower production costs).

Watch out, this data is all very rough.nn[ Edited on 21/8/2005 by gerrelt ]

These are almost all the specs concerning the alfa romeo boxer engines. The later IE (series 3) engines are also used in the Alfa 145/146.

YEAR OF PRODUCTION: 1983/1986 (I series), 1986/1989 (II series), 1990/1994 (III series)

Alfa 33 1.3 (series 1)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.3
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 80 x 67,2
Displacement (cm3) : 1350
Compression ratio : 9 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 79 (58,1) /5800rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 11,3 (110,8) /3500rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead (cam)
Fuel system : 1 twin choke carburettor

Alfa 33 1.3 (series 1)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.3 (junior)
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 80 x 67,2
Displacement (cm3) : 1351
Compression ratio : 9 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 79 (58,1) /6000rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 11,3 (110,8) /3500rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead (cam)
Fuel system : 1 twin choke carburettor

Alfa 33 1.3 S (series 2 & 3)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.3 S
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 80 x 67,2
Displacement (cm3) : 1351
Compression ratio : 9,7 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 86 (63,3) /5800rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 12,1 (118,5) /4000rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead cam (belt)
Fuel system : 2 twin choke carburettors

Alfa 33 1.5 (series 1)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.5
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 84 x 67,2
Displacement (cm3) : 1490
Compression ratio : 9,5 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 95 /5800rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 13,3 /4000rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead cam (belt)
Fuel system : 2 twin choke carburettors

Alfa 33 1.5 (series 1 & 2)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.5 4x4 / 1.5 Giardinetta / 1.5 Ti / 1.5 QV
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 84 x 67,2
Displacement (cm3) : 1490
Compression ratio : 9,5 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 105 (77,2) /5600rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 13,6 (133,4) /4000rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead cam (belt)
Fuel system : 2 twin choke carburettors

Alfa 33 1.7 QV (series 2)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.7 QV
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 87 x 72,2
Displacement (cm3) : 1712
Compression ratio : 9,5 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 118 (87) /5800rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 15 (148) /3500/rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead cam (belt)
Fuel system : 2 twin choke carburettors

Alfa 33 1.4 iE (series 3)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.4 iE
No. of cylinders, layout x 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) x 80 x 67,2
Displacement (cm3) x 1351
Compression ratio x 9,5 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) x 90 (65)
rpm x 6000
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) x -- (113)
rpm x 4500
Engine-construction

Distribution-control x single overhead cam (belt)
Fuel system x electronic injection Weber IAW

Alfa 33 1.5 iE (series 3)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.5 iE
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 84,0 x 67,2
Displacement (cm3) : 1490
Compression ratio : 9,5 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 97 (70) /6000rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : (125) /4500rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead cam (belt)
Fuel system : electronic injection

Alfa 33 1.7 iE (series 3)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.7 iE
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal | The Alfa 33 1.7 iE was available in a version with-
Bore & stroke (mm) : 87 x 72 | and without catalytic converter. This causes
Displacement (cm3) : 1712 | some small differences in performance.
Compression ratio : 9,5 : 1 | The differences for the 'cat' version are:
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 110 (79) /5800rpm | 107 (77) /5800rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 15,5 (148) /4500rpm | 15,2 (145) /4500rpm

Distribution-control : single overhead cam (belt)
Fuel system : electronic injection Bosch L3.1 Jetronic | + lambda sonde

Alfa 33 1.7 iE Boxer 16v (QV) (Series 3)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.7 iE Boxer 16v (S 16v QV)
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 87 x 72
Displacement (cm3) : 1712
Compression ratio : 10 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 132 (95) /6500rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) 15,8 (151) /4600rpm

Distribution-control : 2 Double overhead cams (belt),
Fuel system : Electr. injection (Bosch Motronic ML4.1)

Alfa 33 1.7 iE S 16v QV P4/Q4 (Series 3)

Engine-characteristics Alfa 33 1.7 iE S 16v QV P4/Q4
No. of cylinders, layout : 4, front longitudinal
Bore & stroke (mm) : 87 x 72
Displacement (cm3) : 1712
Compression ratio : 10 : 1
Max. output (EEC):bhp (KW) : 137 (98) /6500rpm | cat. 132 (95) /6500rpm
Max. torque (EEC):mkg (NM) : 16,4 (157) /4600rpm | cat. 15,8 (151) /6500rpm

Distribution-control : 2 Double overhead cams (belt),
Fuel system : Electr. injection (Bosch Motronic ML4.1)

All the Alfa engines should be handled with care when cold, once warmed up they are just wonderfull
Especialy the carburetted engines are the ones wich can give you a real hard time when started cold
as they have a tendency of flooding the cilinders with feul.

Rudy H.

DubCrazy wrote:lol@pug "v" sud racing

gota love the off the showroom floor handling and go of the 205,has to be one of the best to this day.. then again the sud in its day was a rocket just a little scary on the twisty stuff, still head to head think the pug will come out on top.....


steff...........................

I've had both. The Pug 205GTI is the best car (still) that I've ever had. Alfa was great fun too but not quite as pliable on the limit. Similar feeling cars though, but you could only drive the Afa when it was WORKING....... and you had to drive it fast before it rusted..

hehehe ^

If you want to stay away from electronics and EFI and keep the rear end light consider a Subaru EA81. Twin port, inlet and exhaust, twin spark heads are available from www.sub4.co.nz. They are made for aircraft but should go well in a car.