WPVW turbo oval progress - 443bhp (10.13@139.70mph)

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:00 pm

with the compak attak drag meeting postponed until the 9th April , this gives us around 3 weeks to have the oval ready . the pics posted are about a week ago , so there has been further progress .
It may be a big ask , but we a hoping to run high 10's and 130mph with this fully engineered and street regeristed bug .
will keep you informed when up and running !!:jesus

[ Edited on 14-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 21-2-07 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:01 pm

oval with rear firewall section cut out to accomodate the turbo engine

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:03 pm

the 2.9 litre type-4 turbo injected engine

pod · 19 Mar 2005, 6:03 pm

cool as , looks like youve got a job and a half on your hands

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:04 pm

the alloy front suspension beam

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:05 pm

the wastegate , blow-off valve and the T-60 turbo with split exhaust housing

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:07 pm

the 4" inlet on the T-60 turbo and the 48mm wastegate

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:08 pm

the WPVW modified watercooled intercooler with 3" inlet / outlet

[ Edited on 27-8-06 by hypo-vw ]

Chewy · 19 Mar 2005, 6:10 pm

Hey Hypo Vw is your name Mark Gottwalt by any chance??

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 6:12 pm

Chewy wrote:Hey Hypo Vw is your name Mark Gottwalt by any chance??

no sorry , Wayne Penrose of WPVW

boersch · 19 Mar 2005, 6:25 pm

that's gonna be insane 😀 keep us posted!

11CAB · 19 Mar 2005, 8:34 pm

Nice setup, any more pics?

VWFOOL · 19 Mar 2005, 8:38 pm

very exciting!

Adolph · 19 Mar 2005, 8:43 pm

Hi Wayne.

Would you mind sharing the specs of the type 4 engine with us?
How much boost, power,G-box,size of slicks,etc?
Looks great!!!

Hermann

Flintstones · 19 Mar 2005, 8:52 pm

so what happen with the air to air intercooler that you were originally going to use?? what changed...
keep up the great work and keep us posted on the progress!!
cheers

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 10:45 pm

Flintstones wrote:so what happen with the air to air intercooler that you were originally going to use?? what changed...
keep up the great work and keep us posted on the progress!!
cheers

I decided to modify the air to air intercooler to a water to air type for several reasons . First was the issue of how to get enough air through the intercooler without having the engine lid open up to 300mm ( I want the oval to look pretty stock ) Second was when drag racing , you are stationary at the lights with no air flow through the intercooler ( I had planned to fit a thermo fan but dont know how efficient it would have been , and with the amount of plumbing involved didn't want to have to do it the second time over ) when you launch from the lights the intercooler wouldn't be very efficient until speed is reached . Third , I am able to mount the intercooler inside the cabin away from the heat of the engine and turbo . Fourth , I am able to add ice to the coolant to make it even more efficient from a standing start without any fluid spillage onto the track surface . The only down side to all of this is the additional weight I will be carrying with the coolant / reservoir / electric water-pump , but I am sure the added horsepower will offset this .

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2005, 10:48 pm

the electric water pump kit to pump the coolant through the intercooler

LOWBUG · 20 Mar 2005, 4:43 pm

Is this going to be a street driven car?

hypo-vw · 21 Mar 2005, 6:10 am

100% street driven on premium ULP . I am currently working on the compression ratio of the 2.9 engine trying to get it down to 6.95:1 . I have also purchaced a Turbosmart 2-stage boost controller , so with the flick of a switch on the dash can change from 8psi boost to 22psi instantly . So when used on the street it will run on 8 psi .:jesus

Dasdubber · 21 Mar 2005, 8:25 am

Great stuff Wayne, I look forward to seeing further progress and anticipate some great things for the type IV lump! A high 10sec street beetle would be insane to put it lightly!!

HotRodMatt · 21 Mar 2005, 8:53 am

What have you done with the heads Wayne? Type 4 heads flow like meatloaf through a sieve. Gonna need tremendous flow for a 10 second car.

Turbo54 · 21 Mar 2005, 12:48 pm

Hi Wayne,
I have spoke to you before about the turbo 2165 I am building.
I am Adam and Peter's friend. Is the water pump your running a Davis Craig?
What model is it? I have a similar setup in my car. I have a cool tank mounted behind the back seat and that runs through the plenum / intercooler in the engine bay and then down to the front beam where I am mounting a small radiator w/ thermos and then back to the cool tank. Do you think this will work, it is similar to Adam Deb's car but he was running a fuel pump to pump this? (I want to cut the least amount of holes into my car body as possible)

Have you thought of a shot of CO2 through the manifold while it is on boost. I was thinking of building something like this out of a paintball gun and some gas fittings, but i'm not sure what the men in blue would say about the gas venting into the atmosphere.

Thanks
Heath
Turbo54

hypo-vw · 22 Mar 2005, 6:52 am

HotRodMatt wrote:What have you done with the heads Wayne? Type 4 heads flow like meatloaf through a sieve. Gonna need tremendous flow for a 10 second car.

can't post any pics of the heads as they are already on the engine , but following are a couple of pics of the heads on the tow car ( my 2.5litre 77' dualcab kombi ) As you see these heads will flow a little better than you described . Keep in mind the heads pictured have been modified with 44mm inlet valves and 37mm exhaust valves ( this is why our dualcab can cope with towing that humungus enclosed trailer with 'mango' inside it , approx total weight 3800kgs ) The heads on the 2.9 engine have been modified with 48mm inlet valves and 38mm exhaust valves , and the ports are much larger !!:jesus

hypo-vw · 22 Mar 2005, 6:53 am

exhaust port

vw54 · 22 Mar 2005, 7:10 am

but we a hoping to run high 10's and 130mph

Wayne

You had better apply for an ANDRA licence if you intend going that quick.... and also a full ANDRA teck inspection.

vw54 · 22 Mar 2005, 7:11 am

thats a nice bit of work on the Intercooler..... did you do it yourself or is it a bought one.... looks great how big a radiator will you need to cool the water ???

hypo-vw · 22 Mar 2005, 10:15 pm

vw54 wrote:

Wayne

You had better apply for an ANDRA licence if you intend going that quick.... and also a full ANDRA teck inspection.
I anticipated that I would have to do this Dave , but I will get the oval to the track first and make sure it goes straight and fast . If it runs under 11.00 the officials will advise us not to return until a ANDRA full tech inspection and licence is obtained , and then I shall do as they ask . Thanks for the advise though .:jesus

hypo-vw · 22 Mar 2005, 10:22 pm

Turbo54 wrote:. Is the water pump your running a Davis Craig?
the electric water pump is a Davis Craig unit that costs around $185 . I am not familiar with the type of cooler that you are running in you inlet manifold , but if it is the same type as Adams then it must work as it appears to be working for him .

hypo-vw · 7 Apr 2005, 12:05 am

over the past couple of weeks we have slowed up on the oval as it was quite evident that I was not going to make it to the compak attak which is on this weekend ( april 9th )
the body work is nearly completed with all of the panels fitted . it requires a final rub prior to paint .

hypo-vw · 7 Apr 2005, 12:06 am

hypo-vw · 7 Apr 2005, 12:08 am

the intercooler has been mounted , along with the electric water pump , hoses and reservoir for the coolant . battery box relocated to left hand side .

hypo-vw · 7 Apr 2005, 12:09 am

view through the front window

hypo-vw · 7 Apr 2005, 12:10 am

view through the oval rear window

OvalGlen · 7 Apr 2005, 2:25 pm

If you get the grip.... then you will probably
need wheelie bars..... very nice Wayne

shiftyvw · 7 Apr 2005, 5:41 pm

Just out of curiosity what sort of work will it take to get something like that engineered and street legal? Im assuming you will have to get it blue slipped. Just asking because someone i know is having this sort of drama with a car with less mods and power.

HotRodMatt · 7 Apr 2005, 5:56 pm

I would suspect Wayne would have been talking to an engineer during the planning and build.

barls · 7 Apr 2005, 6:04 pm

i hope he has cause those specs would put it on the upper limits of the ADRs. im not knocking it wayne just curious if you have found some way around it.

shiftyvw · 7 Apr 2005, 8:30 pm

The removal of the original firewall would cause problems I would imagine. Dont know about the aluminium beam either? Not trying to pick on your project, just curious what the engineer (if required) says. Do T4 conversions technically need engineering, even in stock form?

Flintstones · 7 Apr 2005, 11:03 pm

shiftyvw wrote:The removal of the original firewall would cause problems I would imagine. Dont know about the aluminium beam either? Not trying to pick on your project, just curious what the engineer (if required) says. Do T4 conversions technically need engineering, even in stock form?

When it comes to engineering, it's all about how the engineer interprets the rules. Remember these are guidelines and the RTA can make exceptions. It's all about asking the "right " questions. Talk to your engineer and explain to them what you would like to acheive. Most are willing to advise on how you can do it.

Cheers

hypo-vw · 10 Apr 2005, 7:30 pm

HotRodMatt wrote:I would suspect Wayne would have been talking to an engineer during the planning and build.

I have been consulting an engineer during the build process and have found a few hick-ups , but a small amount of thought and planning helped get around these problems . Firstly you are only allowed to increase the engine capacity on a vehicle , by 2.5 x the vehicle origional weight when using a turbo charged engine . With the oval being on a 1967 floorpan it is classed technically by RTA as a 1967 beetle . The standard weight of a 1967 beetle is 780kgs , therefore ( 2.5 X 780 = 1950 ml ) The 2.9 litre engine is built into an AP engine case so as far as RTA and the engineer is concerned it is a 1795 ml kombi engine . Secondly , engine and transmission assembly are NOT allowed to be solid mounted for an engineers report . We have to do a full assembly and get the bug running with rubber mounts and after the engineers report is obtained , remove it all and fit the solid mount and strap kit so that we can drag race it without the engine jumping out of the bug . Thirdly , all seat belt anchorages have to be approved . Fourthly , flashing turn signal indicators must be fitted to all corners of a vehicle for an engineer report that consists of an engine conversion . For this I will fit small aftermarket indicators to the bumper brackets , but will probably remove them later so as the oval looks more origional with working semaphores . Fifthly , working windscreen washers must be fitted to the bug , so I will reluctantly fit a washer nozzle to the windscreen lower panel . Tandem circuit brake master cylinder and disc brakes must be fitted to the front , but that to me is just common sense . WILL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED ON PROGRESS !!:jesus

HotRodMatt · 10 Apr 2005, 8:35 pm

It may be a big ask , but we a hoping to run high 10's and 130mph with this fully engineered and street regeristed bug .

Ah so it won't really be an engineered and legal car then...

Such a shame the mods will happen after engineering. I was hoping to see a sub 11sec VW that is really legal.

[Edited on 10-4-2005 by HotRodMatt]

LOWBUG · 10 Apr 2005, 9:50 pm

With so much metal remove from the rear of the car is that going to cause any structural probs?

hypo-vw · 10 Apr 2005, 10:26 pm

[
Ah so it won't really be an engineered and legal car then...

Such a shame the mods will happen after engineering. I was hoping to see a sub 11sec VW that is really legal.

[Edited on 10-4-2005 by HotRodMatt] [/quote]
so will it be classified as not legal Matt if the indicators are removed and the engine mounts are solid ? I can see where this would really make the oval illegal . For a blue slip it is not required to have insulated mounts , only a requirement from an engineer . The oval will still be street legal with full rego and engineer reports and driven !!:repuke

hypo-vw · 10 Apr 2005, 10:31 pm

LOWBUG wrote:With so much metal remove from the rear of the car is that going to cause any structural probs?

the cut that has been made to the firewall must be reinforced to get engineer approval . I have already manufactured an alumimium chequeplate housing which totally seals off the engine from the cabin area and it also strengthens the firewall area where it has been cut . Will post pics soon .:duh

HotRodMatt · 11 Apr 2005, 9:19 am

hypo-vw wrote:so will it be classified as not legal Matt if the indicators are removed and the engine mounts are solid ? I can see where this would really make the oval illegal . For a blue slip it is not required to have insulated mounts , only a requirement from an engineer . The oval will still be street legal with full rego and engineer reports and driven !!:repuke

If the engineering and rego says it is 1.8L and you have 2.9L then no, it is definitely not legal.

I'm not saying it aint gonna be a good car, just it won't exactly be a fully legal and engineered car which is what you said in your first post.

56astro · 11 Apr 2005, 12:42 pm

Nobody had better mention the "Gene Berg Trophy"

:P

HotRodMatt · 11 Apr 2005, 12:58 pm

56astro wrote:Nobody had better mention the "Gene Berg Trophy"

:P

hahahaha

Such a pity the jump from Modified Production to ICV is so difficult with a Beetle. Would be awesome to see a "truly" legal car of the performance this one should produce.

56astro · 11 Apr 2005, 2:01 pm

exactly

shiftyvw · 11 Apr 2005, 6:17 pm

who will you get to blue slip it? most places wont touch something like that.

Craig Paton · 11 Apr 2005, 8:22 pm

I can't wait to see and hear it run!! It'll probably be better engineered than a most cars on the road a/way! 😉

malcolm · 12 Apr 2005, 5:14 am

nice work wayne,are you going to run the electric water pump continuously are wait for temp saturation then have it start with a temp switch.that cc to orignal weight is a killer in vic we never had it before but because all the states are lining up we,ll cop it know ,what I,m doing is putting a 1974 l-bug pan under my oval for the higher weight ratio but using a mitsu L300 double wishbone suspension so I can also run 7" wheels on the front and a complete 944 rear end to comply with the porsche rear track front track I can comply with the mitsu but I,m narrowing it 80mm.I thought you might of used a similar inlet manifold as your drag car but smaller diameter and is the exhaust going to be 4-1 or 4-2-1 the later good for pulsing being a street car aswell .

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 7:33 am

56astro wrote:Nobody had better mention the "Gene Berg Trophy"

:P

before making comments 56astro maybe you should do your homework on the subject . THE GENE BERG TROPHY is a category for the FASTEST STREET REGERISTED VW . The car must be RTA REGERISTED with the ENGINE & CHASSIS NUMBERS MATCHING THE REGO PAPERWORK . The COOLING SYSTEM must be intact . The engine must run on PUMP PETROL ONLY . Only STREET TYRES to be used . The BODY & DOORS MUST BE STEEL . GLASS must be fitted , no perspex . SPARE WHEEL must be fitted . The car must be able to be DRIVEN @ 110KPH FOR 15 MINS .

I have highlighted the areas where the oval will comply , just incase you get confussed !!😀

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 7:38 am

malcolm wrote:nice work wayne,are you going to run the electric water pump continuously are wait for temp saturation then have it start with a temp switch.that cc to orignal weight is a killer in vic we never had it before but because all the states are lining up we,ll cop it know ,what I,m doing is putting a 1974 l-bug pan under my oval for the higher weight ratio but using a mitsu L300 double wishbone suspension so I can also run 7" wheels on the front and a complete 944 rear end to comply with the porsche rear track front track I can comply with the mitsu but I,m narrowing it 80mm.I thought you might of used a similar inlet manifold as your drag car but smaller diameter and is the exhaust going to be 4-1 or 4-2-1 the later good for pulsing being a street car aswell .

the water pump for the intercooler will run continously when the ignition is switched on . the exhaust will be 4-2 only as I am running a split exhaust housing on the turbo . Much quicker spool up !!

Doug Sweetman · 12 Apr 2005, 1:55 pm

This thing will be awesome once complete, regulatory niggles aside.

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:30 pm

I have stayed back at work tonight and assembled the transmission . Trans now runs a 3.875 diff with welded diff centre , 4.11 / 2.21 / 1.44 / 1.04 gear sets . Berg chromemoly axles , Berg side plate strenghteners . Here are a few pics .

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:32 pm

gear cluster assembled . notice the very strong 1st gear which is almost straight-cut . It has a 10 degree helical-cut and is wider than stock .

Flintstones · 12 Apr 2005, 10:33 pm

HotRodMatt wrote:
It may be a big ask , but we a hoping to run high 10's and 130mph with this fully engineered and street regeristed bug .
Ah so it won't really be an engineered and legal car then...

Such a shame the mods will happen after engineering. I was hoping to see a sub 11sec VW that is really legal.

[Edited on 10-4-2005 by HotRodMatt]

As a hotrodder you should know that there are many registered cars out there that have pushed the barriers with regards to engine capacities, example you can push the holden 308 out to 400 cubic inches but visually it still looks like a 308 and the engine numbers still match. If a cop/rta officer pulled you over do you think they would be able to tell??
You know the game like the rest of us 😉

Keep pushing the boundaries Hypovw, cause we already live in a restricted democracy where the government and authorities tell us what we can and can't do......
Cheers

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:34 pm

complete gear carrier assembled and shift forks adjusted .

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:35 pm

gear carrier assembly being fitted to main housing .

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:36 pm

welded diff centre .

malcolm · 12 Apr 2005, 10:38 pm

hypo whats the cost of the box please

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:38 pm

transmission assembled with diff fitted , extra welding to side planetary gears .

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:40 pm

BERG chrome-moly axles . Notice that the axles are parallel and not tapered like the stock VW ones . MUCH STRONGER!!

malcolm · 12 Apr 2005, 10:40 pm

what would this box cost to build

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:42 pm

BERG side plate strenghteners give the side plates added support and reduce flexing from the diff .

hypo-vw · 12 Apr 2005, 10:48 pm

malcolm wrote:what would this box cost to build

to build this box again and start from scratch with all new parts it would cost around $3500.00

gayanne · 13 Apr 2005, 12:15 am

Hi Hypo,always been impressed at what you have done,you are deffently the yard stick to catch.Deffently looking forward to racing agaisnt you one day😀😀😀JVLRacing

malcolm · 13 Apr 2005, 12:21 am

and whon day I might get my car finshed so far the motor will be a ej20,13bt and a turbo type 4 and a 915 box

56astro · 13 Apr 2005, 8:52 am

hypo-vw wrote:
56astro wrote:Nobody had better mention the "Gene Berg Trophy"

:P
before making comments 56astro maybe you should do your homework on the subject . THE GENE BERG TROPHY is a category for the FASTEST STREET REGERISTED VW . The car must be RTA REGERISTED with the ENGINE & CHASSIS NUMBERS MATCHING THE REGO PAPERWORK . The COOLING SYSTEM must be intact . The engine must run on PUMP PETROL ONLY . Only STREET TYRES to be used . The BODY & DOORS MUST BE STEEL . GLASS must be fitted , no perspex . SPARE WHEEL must be fitted . The car must be able to be DRIVEN @ 110KPH FOR 15 MINS .

I have highlighted the areas where the oval will comply , just incase you get confussed !!😀

Wayne,

I don't doubt the fact that you could turn up to a race meeting and bluff the organisers into thinking that it is (properly) "street registered". Hell, you'd have the papers to prove it.

The problem is, as you stated in one of your previous posts, that somebody is going to "sign off" that the engine is a 1.7 kombi engine, which you have turboed. Technically you could take it out to 1.950.

But 2900, OMG!

There is a big risk going to be taken by someone, either you (for providing false info to your engineer) or your engineer (for approving something he knew was false).

If your vehicle is involved in a fatal accident (heaven forbid, and not necessarily the car at fault) and the car gets a going over as part of the coronial enquiry, and it is discovered that the engine is not a 1.7L kombi engine but instead a 2.9L beast of a thing, who will they come looking for to sue the ar5e off? Will it be determined that the vehicle should never have been registered in the 1st place? OFF COURSE!

And that was the point to my original post. The intent of the Gene Berg trophy is to reward the quickest street car over the 1/4 mile. If you have to cheat the system to do it, then .....

There is no doubt though, that it's going to be an awesome street car! 😉

HotRodMatt · 13 Apr 2005, 8:59 am

I agree with Astro. Sure people do it all the time... but talking about it on a public forum? That's nuts! Especially for a business.

As for the work, thought and effort; I have only admiration.

pete wood · 13 Apr 2005, 10:03 am

HotRodMatt wrote:Ah so it won't really be an engineered and legal car then...
[Edited on 10-4-2005 by HotRodMatt]

Matt,
although you seem to be an authority on most things, I think you are dreaming. 😉
I also have to agree with others when they talk about hotrods. It really gives me the heebie geebies when I see some bogun with a blown big block in a rod that couldn't weigh more than 800kgs max. Please don't go preaching about so-called illegalities with regard to engine size etc. This is how it really works in NSW. If the engineer signs off on something, no matter how illegal you or I think it is, if they can back it up in any way, then it is legal. I don't like it either, but that's the way things works. All serious mods are done in such a way to find loopholes, otherwise we'd all drive stock commodores. :puke

HotRodMatt · 13 Apr 2005, 11:25 am

pete wood wrote:I also have to agree with others when they talk about hotrods. It really gives me the heebie geebies when I see some bogun with a blown big block in a rod that couldn't weigh more than 800kgs max.

I say the same thing to rodder mates who have dubiously registered vehicles. it is irresponsible and disrespectful to other road users. Regard to big blocks in rods - read the specific rules relating to Pre '48s. Especially now the National Guidelines are in place and LEGAL for cars on SR plates.

pete wood wrote:Please don't go preaching about so-called illegalities with regard to engine size etc. This is how it really works in NSW. If the engineer signs off on something, no matter how illegal you or I think it is, if they can back it up in any way, then it is legal. I don't like it either, but that's the way things works. All serious mods are done in such a way to find loopholes, otherwise we'd all drive stock commodores. :puke

Simple fact. If engine size is different to that on the papers the car is NOT legal. End of story.

Any business who talks about doing such on a public forum is inviting trouble.

Gotta love a future religious leader telling us it's ok to lie and register a car fraudulently.

pete wood · 13 Apr 2005, 1:11 pm

ah Matt, selectively reading again? If you'd looked closer, you have noticed I said, "I don't like it either".

Besides, if religion is the crock you claim it is, why should you care.

The real truth is this. Almost every car on australian roads is illegal in some way. bull bars, alloy wheels, radios, mobile phones, non standard tyres etc. The law is about the letter. It's all about how you twist the letters round. So where do you wanna draw the line, the blown big block or the non-factory cupholder?

pete wood · 13 Apr 2005, 1:27 pm

56astro wrote:who will they come looking for to sue the ar5e off?

The engineer actually, he signed it off so it's he head that's on the chopping block.

gayanne · 13 Apr 2005, 1:34 pm

Good eg. of this when insuring your car nrma always ask if anything extra done to car? most of times you say no,😀 thats illegal.Cams log books are pretty tought they wanted to know the ins and outs of my sportsedan.Its true when it is written on paper some scruiteneers are not 100% accurate.I think wayne would know this and we all try to close doors toget a little further.😀JVLRacing

HotRodMatt · 13 Apr 2005, 1:52 pm

pete wood wrote:ah Matt, selectively reading again? If you'd looked closer, you have noticed I said, "I don't like it either".

Yes but in the same paragraph you condone it and suggest that it can't be done legally. It can and is when people bother.

pete wood · 13 Apr 2005, 3:15 pm

Flintstones wrote:When it comes to engineering, it's all about how the engineer interprets the rules.

Flintstones said it before when he said this. But no I don't condone breaking the law or, for that matter blown big blocks in 800kg rods. Both are just stupidity.

But back to the matter at hand. If Wayne's Engineer says it's ok, it's ok whether we agree or not.

nuf said.

Flintstones · 13 Apr 2005, 8:41 pm

Here's another way of looking at it, Hypo can get another 1.7L engine and turbo it then install in his car and get the sign off, you would then say that this is legit.
After it has all the approval's and is registered he can then build it up into a 2.9L turbo'ed engine. It still has all the approval's and is still registered.
But if he didn't tell you it was a 2.9LT and he showed you the paper work that said it was a 1.7LT what would you say the engine is? I guarantee you would not have said it was a 2.9LT......at the end of the day, an awesome car will be built so lets enjoy:kiss

dangerous · 13 Apr 2005, 9:41 pm

Back to Project Oval..........Wayne do your self a favour & fit a good sidecover. The side cover strengtheners do help stop the axle tube distorting the tin cover, but dont really help to hold the crownwheel against the pinion. Also get yourself a spool that wont crack the factory carrier, or push out the side gear circlips if the weld fails....both these things I have seen,especially if MIG is used on those hardened gears. Keep up the good work, I love the project!

Bug_racer · 14 Apr 2005, 10:45 pm

I was querying a guy who worked at the RTA about vw's ability to increase the engine size by boring and stroking and he basically told me that they base the engine size of what the block is standard . So a 1916cc beetle is still 1600cc according to them . Thats what I was told , ayone gotten other news ?

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:25 pm

Bug_racer wrote:I was querying a guy who worked at the RTA about vw's ability to increase the engine size by boring and stroking and he basically told me that they base the engine size of what the block is standard . So a 1916cc beetle is still 1600cc according to them . Thats what I was told , ayone gotten other news ?

you hit the nail on the head Bug_racer !! RTA only base the capacity of the engine in the vehicle on the origional capacity identified by the engine number that was stamped from factory . Engineers follow the same set of rules . Matt and his supporters should sit back and relax for a minute and think of these couple of points . 1/ I am supplying every piece of information regarding this project without hiding anything so that the readers can enjoy seeing this car develop . 2/ if I wanted to cheat on the Gene Berg trophy ( as suggested ), then I would have told everyone that it is an 1800 turbo . 3/ take a long hard think of how many 1300 beetles there are running around with 1600 bore kits in them and no brake upgrades , and not approved . also how many 1916 engines and bigger (some with turbo's ) regeristed as 1600's and they enter the Gene Berg Trophy drags. 4/ finally , at least I am doing a project and taking every step / effort to make it safe and legal .

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:49 pm

stayed back at work tonight and finished the transmission assembly complete with new brakes and all of the solid engine/trans mounts , ready to be fitted to the oval . Then started on the engine , only need to remove the heads and barrels to shim the barrels to decompress the engine to suit PREMIUM UNLEADED PETROL . Every thing else in engine OK .
following are some more pics .

first pic shows the solid transmission mount with the bellhousing brace strap attached .

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:51 pm

Berg style trans gear-carrier housing mount and solid selector housing bracket

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:53 pm

the hi-torque Berg reduction starter motor that is required to turn-over the big engine easily

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:54 pm

stripping down the engine to decompress , to suit turbo and ULP

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:56 pm

with .534" valve lift , the valves dissappear well down into the head

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:57 pm

105mm big bore kit fitted with an 82mm stroker crank

hypo-vw · 14 Apr 2005, 11:59 pm

48mm inlet valves & 38mm exhaust valves , with reshaped combustion chambers

hypo-vw · 15 Apr 2005, 12:02 am

Berg heavy-duty 8mm rocker studs , Berg dual springs , Berg chromemoly retainers , Berg lash-caps protect the tips on the Manley stainless steel valves .

pete wood · 17 Apr 2005, 1:35 pm

Are you using cast-iron cylinders or nicasils aluminium ones? Just interested on your thoughts coz someone who speaks with authority about big bore type4s said that they won't used anything but nicasils on motors with a bore over 96mm.

BTW, love the heads......drool....:thumb

AdrianH · 17 Apr 2005, 5:19 pm

FYI, Theres a guy down here running the same size engine with cast iron cylinders NA (IDA's). It is mostly track, does 150mph down the back straight at Puke, 11s at the strip, he has had no issues with the cylinders, its been 4 or 5 years of hard running.

hypo-vw · 17 Apr 2005, 8:01 pm

pete wood wrote:Are you using cast-iron cylinders or nicasils aluminium ones? Just interested on your thoughts coz someone who speaks with authority about big bore type4s said that they won't used anything but nicasils on motors with a bore over 96mm.

BTW, love the heads......drool....:thumb

I have been using the cast iron cylinders to date and they have not caused me any grief as yet . The first set that I used in 1997 in the 2.5 litre drag beetle ( 105mm ) was a second hand set that had done 4 years on the street prior . I then fitted them to my engine and although it didn't do many miles , they were hard miles @ 7500rpm - 8600rpm . After 2 years in the drag car I then stripped and rebuilt the car into my current sports sedan with the 2.9litre engine . You guessed it , the same barrels & pistons were used and won me the AUSTRALIAN HILLCLIMB CHAMPIONSHIP IN THE 2LITRE TO 3LITRE SPORTS SEDANS (2000) , also the NSW Hillclimb championship 2litre - 3litre sports sedans (2000 ) and many other wins before being removed in 2001 due to the engine begining to sound like a diesel when it was cold .
All of the time the engine was running without air cleaners due to being raced only . I am very impressed with the 105mm barrels and I and about to test them to the next level , maybe they wont be suitable ? who knows ? I am about to find out the same way that I have achieved all of my current VW knowledge , that is try it myself !!:duh

HotRodMatt · 17 Apr 2005, 8:05 pm

You could rebuild three times with new irons for the cost of nickies.

Though a full set of nickies (pots and pistons) give heaps better cooling and much longer life.

pete wood · 17 Apr 2005, 9:13 pm

HotRodMatt wrote:Though a full set of nickies (pots and pistons) give heaps better cooling and much longer life.

Yeah, I'm sure they do. The thing I keep thinking is, on what sort of motor, are we talking an understressed street motor or a full race motor, where do you start to see real benefits?

HotRodMatt · 17 Apr 2005, 9:50 pm

[/quote]
Yeah, I'm sure they do. The thing I keep thinking is, on what sort of motor, are we talking an understressed street motor or a full race motor, where do you start to see real benefits? [/quote]

On any engine. The nickies are machined so the fins are thinner with the same surface area per fin but about 1.5 times the number of fins per inch. So the surface area alone gives and incredible amount of cooling.

I haven't yet seen independant data but the surfaces are also reported to have far less friction, and we all are aware of the immediate free moving benefits there.

pete wood · 18 Apr 2005, 12:09 pm

well if they're so good, maybe there's a machine shop in Oz that could make them up out here. That way they'd be half the price the yanks are charging. Probably be better quality if I know the yank stuff too. What do you reckon?

hypo-vw · 20 Apr 2005, 12:12 am

stayed back at work again tonight , removed the old transmission from the oval , cleaned and painted the chassis forks and fitted the transmission assembly . The engine has been measured ( chambers CC'd ) and compression ratio worked out to 7.5:1 . One of the barrels has been taken to the engineers shop , where he is manufacturing the 8mm thick cylinder spacers .:jesus

first picture shows the eagle chromemoly conrods that swing on the Bernie Bergmann 82mm full circle stroker crank .

hypo-vw · 20 Apr 2005, 12:14 am

the cleaned and painted transmission forks . even though this will be no show car , I feel it very important to clean and check everything prior to running the oval down the strip

hypo-vw · 20 Apr 2005, 12:16 am

the transmission assembly is strapped in and ready to go !!

VDUBXTC · 27 Apr 2005, 3:14 am

Hey Wayne.
This is going to be one sweet car mate.

Its a shame that people have to bring there negative crap into the thread.

I recieved the same crap when i posted a thread about a certain Fi 2.8ltr type4 powered oval.
All had been properly engineered ,aprroved and registered too.

All i can say is i love your work wayne, And Keep the follow ups comming

BLUE_62 · 27 Apr 2005, 3:52 am

WOW. Now thats impressive. I do have to agree its a shame about negativity being bought in... what creates it, jelousy or what? Good luck with everything. Keep as updated every step of the way. For whats its worth i have a 66 beetle running exactly that, a 1300 with a 1600 kit and yep, no brake upgrades, Goes good, and with constant fortnightly adjustment it stops good too.

cheers buddy!

NigeType3 · 27 Apr 2005, 3:28 pm

Show us more this is what I want to see.
How the pro's build a car!

CHeers Nige

LOWBUG · 27 Apr 2005, 9:00 pm

HEY WAYNE IS THERE GOING TO BE ANY LOSS OF STRENGTH WITH SO MUCH METAL CUT OUT OF THE FIRE WALL?

hypo-vw · 28 Apr 2005, 11:13 pm

LOWBUG wrote:HEY WAYNE IS THERE GOING TO BE ANY LOSS OF STRENGTH WITH SO MUCH METAL CUT OUT OF THE FIRE WALL?

an aluminium housing has been manufactured out of 3mm chequer-plate to cover in the entire section that has been cut away . The engineer visited my shop on thursday and is very happy with the progress and is very satisfied with the additional strength supplied by the new housing .

hypo-vw · 28 Apr 2005, 11:37 pm

today the bodywork and repairs on the oval body were completed and the body was covered with its final coating of primmer/filler . My father , Allan , has been doing all of the preparation for the body for me and after applying the final guide-coat proceeded in rubbing down the oval so that I can get it to K&D smash repairs tomorrow afternoon . Kevin at K&D will be applying the ' BLOOD ORANGE ' 2-PAK on saturday morning . Tonight I stayed back at work again to do the final fit-up of the fibreglass front and rear bumpers with the custom made aluminium brackets and also the fibreglass running boards . some more pics following .

hypo-vw · 28 Apr 2005, 11:39 pm

rear view of the oval with fibreglass rear bumper and running boards .

hypo-vw · 28 Apr 2005, 11:40 pm

front view of the oval with the fibreglass front bumper and running boards .

hypo-vw · 28 Apr 2005, 11:41 pm

view of the repaired and undercoated dash area .

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 10:55 pm

well the oval took a quick trip to K&D smash repairs at Unanderra last friday to have the final coats of paint applied . Kevin painted the oval on saturday morning and I had Dave (a team member) collect it today . pics follow of the oval painted . Keep up to date over the next 2 weeks as the oval will be rapidly assembled and documented for your viewing pleasure . Linclon at Teds muffler service is expecting the oval at his shop later this week to start the manufacture of the turbo plumbing and Kevin from South coast rotary is expecting the oval onto his dyno in just 2 weeks time .

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 10:56 pm

dash and interior painted

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 10:57 pm

rear view of the oval painted

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 10:58 pm

another front view of the oval painted

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 11:00 pm

taillamp bases , popes nose , running boards , semaphore covers , glovebox lid and ashtray cover .

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 11:01 pm

'W' decklid in fibreglass

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 11:12 pm

I ran into a minor problem today after fitting the barrel shims that had been manufactured to decompress the engine . The origional barrel shims being used in this engine were 5mm thick , the new shims are now 8mm thick . This extra 3mm meant that when I fitted the cylinder head , the headstud did not come all the way through the nuts . So I tried to screw the studs from the engine case to compensate but due to the type-4 headstuds being 12mm diameter into the engine case , this just lifted the barrels from their seats . I really didn't want to change headstuds as I have had a top quality chromemoly set manufactured previously and they have worked very well . So the decision was made to machine the cylinder head bosses where the head washers sit onto the heads . There is ample thickness in this area and some pics following of the most recent head mods being performed .

hypo-vw · 2 May 2005, 11:13 pm

head washer bosses being machined

squizy · 3 May 2005, 11:17 am

Looking forward to seeing it and hearing it.

VWENVY · 3 May 2005, 11:46 am

Thats a mad colour!

😉

AdrianH · 3 May 2005, 1:21 pm

The piston must be hanging outta the bore at BDC a bit ? Or do those big T4 barrells have a long skirt ?

hypo-vw · 3 May 2005, 11:36 pm

AdrianH wrote:The piston must be hanging outta the bore at BDC a bit ? Or do those big T4 barrells have a long skirt ?

the type-4 barrels do have a much longer spigot at the bottom of the barrel than the type-1 barrels . The pistons are hanging out a fair bit , but I think that they will stay in there . The oil ring comes level with the top of the spigot and there is approximately 35mm of spigot .

hypo-vw · 3 May 2005, 11:48 pm

following are some pics of the engine . first pic shows the cylinder heads fitted back onto the 2.9 litre engine and it is clearly visible that the head nuts now hold down the heads correctly after the bosses have been machined down to suit .

hypo-vw · 3 May 2005, 11:53 pm

after fitting the cylinder heads and barrels with the new decompression shims , I have now found that the pushrods that were being used in the engine previously are now too short . pictured is a new set of uncut chromemoly pushrods . after the photo was taken I then cut the pushrods to the correct length and fitted the end tips supplied in the kit . The rockers were then fitted and the tappets adjusted .

hypo-vw · 3 May 2005, 11:55 pm

pictured is the 8mm decompression shims that have been manufactured to drop the compression ratio down to 7.5:1

hypo-vw · 4 May 2005, 12:00 am

rear view or the 2.9 litre type-4 engine , on the engine stand . fitted is the Berg 3-puk race disc and kennedy 3000lb ductile-face race pressure plate . note that the exhaust header pipes have been turned around and now face the front of the car , as the turbo will be mounted above the transmission .

BLUE_62 · 4 May 2005, 4:48 am

Looking good from where i sit. Shame however that you make it look all to easy 😉

VWCOOL · 4 May 2005, 9:58 am

wow wow wow...
Seeing the primered Oval shell reminded me of the build of my own Oval - and that almost overwhelming feeling of anticipation and satisfaction -15 years ago. Jeez, it seems like last month, not a decade and half ago. I'm still working on my car when time allows :thumb and it's getting a fresh engine, big brakes are being worked on and possobly a new two-tone RestoCal paint job soon!
You have already done a stunning job - love the colour. Red ones go faster!

[Edited on 4/5/2005 by VWCOOL]

johny rotten · 4 May 2005, 7:58 pm

56astro wrote:
hypo-vw wrote:
56astro wrote:Nobody had better mention the "Gene Berg Trophy"

:P
before making comments 56astro maybe you should do your homework on the subject . THE GENE BERG TROPHY is a category for the FASTEST STREET REGERISTED VW . The car must be RTA REGERISTED with the ENGINE & CHASSIS NUMBERS MATCHING THE REGO PAPERWORK . The COOLING SYSTEM must be intact . The engine must run on PUMP PETROL ONLY . Only STREET TYRES to be used . The BODY & DOORS MUST BE STEEL . GLASS must be fitted , no perspex . SPARE WHEEL must be fitted . The car must be able to be DRIVEN @ 110KPH FOR 15 MINS .

I have highlighted the areas where the oval will comply , just incase you get confussed !!😀
Wayne,

I don't doubt the fact that you could turn up to a race meeting and bluff the organisers into thinking that it is (properly) "street registered". Hell, you'd have the papers to prove it.

The problem is, as you stated in one of your previous posts, that somebody is going to "sign off" that the engine is a 1.7 kombi engine, which you have turboed. Technically you could take it out to 1.950.

But 2900, OMG!

There is a big risk going to be taken by someone, either you (for providing false info to your engineer) or your engineer (for approving something he knew was false).

If your vehicle is involved in a fatal accident (heaven forbid, and not necessarily the car at fault) and the car gets a going over as part of the coronial enquiry, and it is discovered that the engine is not a 1.7L kombi engine but instead a 2.9L beast of a thing, who will they come looking for to sue the ar5e off? Will it be determined that the vehicle should never have been registered in the 1st place? OFF COURSE!

And that was the point to my original post. The intent of the Gene Berg trophy is to reward the quickest street car over the 1/4 mile. If you have to cheat the system to do it, then .....

There is no doubt though, that it's going to be an awesome street car! 😉

This above is all true,

if you lie about engine size to the RTA etc/ Engineering signitory well you could be in 4 a little more attention than what you are seeking.

As 4 the Berg trophy well if you have to cheat to win is it really worth it ?

Although it has worked 4 at least 1 other vw driver on this forum.

[Edited on 4/5/2005 by johny rotten]

Gracey · 4 May 2005, 8:51 pm

[q

Although it has worked 4 at least 1 other vw driver on this forum.

[Edited on 4/5/2005 by johny rotten] [/quote]

Who?

pete wood · 5 May 2005, 8:59 pm

Johnny, get past it, we've already had this discussion so leave it be. 😉

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:02 am

last night I stayed back and assembled the fan housing and porsche cooling fan onto the engine . here is a pic of the colour-coded housing and fan .

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:03 am

fan assembly and fan housing assembled on engine

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:04 am

prior to fitting inlet manifolds and injection , I found a crack in the inlet manifold and quickley had Steve from Indyweld repair it for me

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:07 am

injection , manifolds , plenims all fitted to the engine and I have now started to manufacture the inlet plumbing to the plenims

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:08 am

the oval fuel tank was rusted at the bottom , so I had the tank repaired and modified with a much larger outlet pipe

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:11 am

I also had the top of the tank modified with the addition of 2 vet fittings . One will be used as a tank breather and the other for the EFI fuel return line .

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:13 am

the oval was hoist lifted tonight and the rear guards and removable rear apron assembly were taken off in preparation for the fitting of the engine

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:16 am

after a small modification to the transmission crossmember for exhaust clearance the engine is fitted to the oval

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:17 am

another view of the engine fitted

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:18 am

the view from inside the oval tonight

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 12:25 am

after fitting the engine tonight , I then decided to work on the gearshift . After completely assembling the gearshift and adjusting it , I couldn't get gears properly . So I dissassembled the entire gearshift and when I removed the gearshift rod from the oval , I found it was bent . I straightened the rod and went to fit a new gear-tunnel bush only to find the hole in the bracket that holds the bush is extremely flogged out . So tomorrows job is to cut the top of the tunnel and replace the bracket . here is a pic of the Gene Berg R/H drive shifter and the nolathane gearshift coupling assembly .

gayanne · 6 May 2005, 3:03 pm

Wayne i like it😀JVLRacing😀

Turbo54 · 6 May 2005, 3:44 pm

Hi Wayne,
Are you going to have a ice bucket somewhere for the intercooler?
Looking good,
T54

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 8:18 pm

Turbo54 wrote:Hi Wayne,
Are you going to have a ice bucket somewhere for the intercooler?
Looking good,
T54

After each run on the 1/4 mile some of the coolant will be dumped & a quantity of ice added to keep the intercooler temp. down.

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 8:27 pm

Today the dash of the oval has been re-assembled

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 8:29 pm

A little more work has been done on the intake plumbing

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 8:31 pm

Another view of the engine

hypo-vw · 6 May 2005, 8:32 pm

Today the oval has had door locks & strikers fitted along with door seals & chrome mouldings

pete wood · 6 May 2005, 11:08 pm

nice, very nice. 🙂

t2 · 7 May 2005, 8:11 am

is this going to be lowered , i think it would look awsome going that fast at original height with original rims , might not help to much with traction and times but it would be cool

VWCOOL · 7 May 2005, 11:07 am

hypo-vw wrote:
Turbo54 wrote:Hi Wayne,
Are you going to have a ice bucket somewhere for the intercooler?
Looking good,
T54
After each run on the 1/4 mile some of the coolant will be dumped & a quantity of ice added to keep the intercooler temp. down.

I know it's common practice, but that's kinda cheating. It'd be nice to see what the CAR can do, not tricks... IYKWIM

But wow, what a car! Very impressive

[Edited on 7/5/2005 by VWCOOL]

AdrianH · 7 May 2005, 2:39 pm

How is extracting every last horsepower out of an engine cheating ? I would call it smart.

pete wood · 7 May 2005, 6:53 pm

stop using logic Adrian, it just confuses people...:P

Flintstones · 7 May 2005, 8:32 pm

VWCOOL wrote:
hypo-vw wrote:
Turbo54 wrote:Hi Wayne,
Are you going to have a ice bucket somewhere for the intercooler?
Looking good,
T54
After each run on the 1/4 mile some of the coolant will be dumped & a quantity of ice added to keep the intercooler temp. down.
I know it's common practice, but that's kinda cheating. It'd be nice to see what the CAR can do, not tricks... IYKWIM

But wow, what a car! Very impressive

[Edited on 7/5/2005 by VWCOOL]

That would be like saying to all the rotary racers not to take out your drivers side headlights to get a cool charge to the turbo!!
Let's be realistic here, at the end of the day your chasing a number, to get the lowest 1/4 mile time and where else are you going to do it anyway.

You've got to use every opportuntity to your advantage

Cheers

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 11:37 am

as previously mentioned the gearshift bracket had to be removed from the tunnel as the hole for the tunnel bush was flogged out . pic shows the bracket removed from the tunnel

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 11:38 am

just have a look at how flogged out the old bracket was compared to a new one

VWCOOL · 8 May 2005, 11:56 am

Flintstones wrote:
VWCOOL wrote:
hypo-vw wrote:
Turbo54 wrote:Hi Wayne,
Are you going to have a ice bucket somewhere for the intercooler?
Looking good,
T54
After each run on the 1/4 mile some of the coolant will be dumped & a quantity of ice added to keep the intercooler temp. down.
I know it's common practice, but that's kinda cheating. It'd be nice to see what the CAR can do, not tricks... IYKWIM

But wow, what a car! Very impressive

[Edited on 7/5/2005 by VWCOOL]

That would be like saying to all the rotary racers not to take out your drivers side headlights to get a cool charge to the turbo!!
Let's be realistic here, at the end of the day your chasing a number, to get the lowest 1/4 mile time and where else are you going to do it anyway.

You've got to use every opportuntity to your advantage

Cheers

Yeah... but I'm a great believer in running cars in 'true' street trim. No seats or panels removed, no funny fuel, no 'cheating'. Straight off the street, as driven everyday. Just my opinion and I have far more respect for people who do it that way (although not many do!)

jakjones · 8 May 2005, 12:57 pm

you know you don't have to cut a hole in the tunnel to do that repair, you just drill out the spot welds..

[Edited on 9/5/2005 by jakjones]

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:35 pm

jakjones wrote:you know you don't have to hack a hole in the tunnel to do that repair, you just drill out the spot welds...

you would think a vw specialist would know that

after sanding the tunnel area around the gearshift hole there were no evident spot welds . on further inspection and feeling around in the opening it was found that the internal bracket had been welded in several places around the edge . I am aware that they are normally spot welded but I had no choice as to the approach that I took to this repair .
FROM A VW SPECIALIST !!

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:37 pm

the new bracket is welded into the tunnel

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:39 pm

the Gene Berg right-hand drive shifter is installed and adjusted . the gear change now works perfectly !!

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:41 pm

the intercooler has been thoroughly washed out and fitted with some of the plumbing that I manufactured yesterday .

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:43 pm

after installing the intercooler I then started on the electric water pump and hoses .

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:47 pm

as previously mentioned , after each run down the strip some of the coolant will be dumped and ice added to cool down the intercooler temperature . pic shows the coolant drain hose that exits down through the pan via a golf heater tap . this makes it very quick and easy to dump off the coolant when not on the track .

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:51 pm

we have aready fitted door locks , handles , mouldings , headlamps , front bumper , front bonnet lock/cable & handle .
pics show the progress on the body .

hypo-vw · 8 May 2005, 5:52 pm

front/side view of the body

2443TT · 8 May 2005, 6:04 pm

Nice buildup... its been a while since i've read the forums and its great to see an awesome build up in progress.

Got a couple of questions ... with the decompression spacers how much deck height did you end up running?

Which engine management are you going to run? I'd live to see someone dare to run an autronic and be the first in australia to have traction control on a 350 RWHP VW!

Got a kaffier brace? a berg traction bar just aint going to cut it when your looking to turn about the 350 hp mark.. there are some good 5 link systems showed on the germanlook forums and now's the time to fit it... Otherwise your going to snap that tranny like a twig, regardless of the berg bits.

When it comes to getting the car to hook up on the 1/4, there is some good info on setting up K+L + swing axel combinations on mufflermikes website. Front and rear suspension tuning. He's running in the 11.90 class with a pull thru 2332 turbo.

About your intercooling, just having a nice sized resivour is enough to keep the air charge cool for the 1/4. Mine is about 6 litres (not counting whats in the lines. I haven't run ice yet, but havn't needed to. 22 degrees ignition at 17lb boost on 98 octane, no detonation.

Now its winter in cairns, I see air temps around the 25 degree mark at full boost. Having an over rated intercooler means that regardless of boost I see very little change in air temps. You should see simular performance considering the size of your core. I'd imagine its even better down south where its cooler.

bajachris88 · 8 May 2005, 6:05 pm

That beetle is no longer gonna be a lil' cute bug anymore. Its gonna be a freakin' beasty monster bug!!! (like off the movie 'Star ship troopers')

keep it going mate, i gotta see the final product for sure.🙂

[Edited on 8/5/2005 by mynameischris88]

Golde60 · 8 May 2005, 9:12 pm

g'day wayne.

congratulations on an awesome build up and thanks for sharing the process and details with us on here.

i met you when you were in melbourne for day of the volkswagen last year, we were talking about the exhaust options for t4 engined bugs....

looks like its coming along very well, mate.

i too am having some engineering dilema's with mine, maybe i will give you a ring to have a chat as you seem to have alot of experience with type 4s going into beetles.

anyhow, keep up the good work and the pictures

😎

pete wood · 8 May 2005, 10:10 pm

tops wayne, can't wait to see it finished.

pete wood · 8 May 2005, 10:11 pm

tops wayne, can't wait to see it finished.

malcolm · 8 May 2005, 10:36 pm

wayne are you using the engine iol system to cool the turbo,s bearings or a seperate system.when I was looking at turbo charging the type 4 I found some porsche,s were using a cnc machined pump to have a seperate oil circuit mainly with the porsches their turbos are mounted low as well and had trouble with the oil back to the motor.its good to see the end is near when doing a major job.

hypo-vw · 9 May 2005, 11:58 pm

iswinkels wrote:with the decompression spacers how much deck height did you end up running?

Which engine management are you going to run?

Got a kaffier brace?

About your intercooling, just having a nice sized resivour is enough to keep the air charge cool for the 1/4.

the deck height ended up at 7.5mm . I am running a microtec fuel & ignition management system . yes I do have a rear engine brace ( will post pics later ) . I know that using the reservoir is sufficient for 1/4 mile drags , my intensions are to use the ice between runs to get the coolant temperature back down , however I dont think it will get very hot all . great to hear that your system is working so well .:P

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:00 am

malcolm wrote:wayne are you using the engine iol system to cool the turbo,s bearings or a seperate system.when I was looking at turbo charging the type 4 I found some porsche,s were using a cnc machined pump to have a seperate oil circuit mainly with the porsches their turbos are mounted low as well and had trouble with the oil back to the motor.its good to see the end is near when doing a major job.

I am using the engine oil system to lubricate and cool the turbo . the oil will return into the L/H/S rocker cover at this stage .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:03 am

today I removed the pedal cluster to replace the clutch cable and inspect the clutch pedal hook . as suspected the clutch pedal hook was so badly worn that it was about to snap-off .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:05 am

I rewelded and remachined the clutch pedal hook to strengthen it so as it doesn't break when pulling the kennedy 3000lb pressure plate .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:07 am

the accelerator pedal was also welded at the back of the pivots to stop from spreading apart .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:09 am

both the clutch cable and accelerator cable have now been fitted / lubricated and adjusted .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:11 am

the plumbing from the intercooler to the plenims has now been completed with all clamps fitted and the blow-off valve installed .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:14 am

view from inside the oval of the completed intake plumbing . the oval is booked in tomorrow with Lincoln at Teds muffler service Dapto to have the exhaust plumbing manufactured to the turbo .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:17 am

tonight the rear apron assembly was fitted along with the rear guards , white guard beadings , rear bumper & brackets.

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:19 am

rear engine support bar fitted to the type-4 engine mounts to the mudguard bolts .

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:21 am

NOW DOESN'T THAT LOOK STOCK !! you would never suspect what is to be unleashed from under the lid .:jesus

hypo-vw · 10 May 2005, 12:23 am

a view at the top of the engine lid with hoodjax fitted to scoop in massive amounts of cool air .

vw54 · 10 May 2005, 7:37 am

Wayne

The work looks good, I see its a early 54 Chassis
bit of a shame to cut it up but OH well.

HotRodMatt · 10 May 2005, 7:55 am

vw54 wrote:I see its a early 54 Chassis bit of a shame to cut it up but OH well.

Never a shame to cut anything to make it better!

pete wood · 10 May 2005, 10:45 am

man, bet you can't wait to fool a couple of HSV dunnydores. 😀

Old Hutcho · 10 May 2005, 8:06 pm

Wayne

How good would that look with white window rubbers mate?

Least people wouldnt confuse my car and your car if they saw them side by side!

Old Hutcho

shiftyvw · 10 May 2005, 8:21 pm

dont worry the colour looks better on yours (at least it does now) the original and the best!
will this be finished for the nats wayne?

GoLfMan · 10 May 2005, 10:33 pm

insane man. let us know how it goes on the strip!!

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 1:45 am

vw54 wrote:Wayne

The work looks good, I see its a early 54 Chassis
bit of a shame to cut it up but OH well.

no its not a 54' . the chassis is a 1967 1300 delux beetle . the body was found to be very rusty when stripped down , so the 56' oval body was used .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 1:46 am

shiftyvw wrote:will this be finished for the nats wayne?

yep , thats the plan at this stage .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:04 am

old 60's style sports steering wheel fitted

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:06 am

the start of the manufacturing process of the turbo plumbing by Lincoln @ TEDS MUFFLER SERVICE DAPTO .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:08 am

the primary exhaust pipes are tach-welded in place

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:09 am

the primary pipes are removed from the oval , to be fully welded

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:11 am

the secondary pipes are manufactured and fitted in place . the turbo is then mounted in the position that it will be fitted

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:13 am

a view of the engine from the rear of the oval to show you the turbo and air filter location

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:16 am

all of the turbo plumbing is now completed . I now only have to fit the wastegate . pic shows turbo connected with 3" diameter outlet pipe .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:17 am

all of the pipework is also now completed for the intercooler and connected

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:26 am

the complete front end has been removed from the oval

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:28 am

the alloy front beam is fitted complete with disc brakes

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:29 am

a tandem brake master cylinder and a collapsable steering shaft has also been fitted for driver safety

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:33 am

a view of the extensive turbo system plumbing from under the left rear guard . I'm certainly not looking forward to removing it all to have it HPC coated , but that will be after the VW nationals drags .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 2:35 am

another view from under the left rear guard , where you can see the 3" diameter exhaust heading to the rear of the oval

Turbo54 · 12 May 2005, 10:53 am

I thought you couldn't get stuff HPC'd after you've run gas through them as it tend not to stick as well or are you not doiing the inside?
T54

Were are you getting the HPC done, I need to do the tops of my pistons and valves and inside my head chambers? thanks.

NigeType3 · 12 May 2005, 11:06 am

Cool stuff so far!
What brake combo you using on this beasty, it looks trick.

dangerous · 12 May 2005, 7:08 pm

Any caster shims Wayne? What specs on front & rear alignment do you plan to run?

Craig Paton · 12 May 2005, 7:30 pm

Hey Wayne

Cannot believe how quick you're putting this beast together!
One thing though, is the alloy front end! Aren't they a bit "iffy" for street use as far as wheel alignment.(Pot holes etc.)
And finally do they save about 80-100lbs?

Cheers Craig

debiasi4 · 12 May 2005, 10:22 pm

ive had used pipes coated before - they blast it first with a very fine abrasive first
we just had some combustion chambers, pistons and valves done in adelaide at maxwell motors in st peters

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:00 pm

Turbo54 wrote:I thought you couldn't get stuff HPC'd after you've run gas through them as it tend not to stick as well or are you not doiing the inside?
T54

Were are you getting the HPC done, I need to do the tops of my pistons and valves and inside my head chambers? thanks.

you can get your pipes HPC coated if they have been previously used , but they must be blasted first . The pipework on my turbo cabrio was done at Competition Coatings in Sydney . If you use him , keep the pressure on him as he tends to promise dates and doesn't keep to them . Does a great job though !!

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:04 pm

NigeType3 wrote:Cool stuff so far!
What brake combo you using on this beasty, it looks trick.

I am using modified late beetle discs up front with superbug calipers and late beetle rear brakes . I chose drums for the rear as the handbrake is a lot more efficient at the start line . Also using tandem brake master cylinder .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:06 pm

dangerous wrote:Any caster shims Wayne? What specs on front & rear alignment do you plan to run?

plan to run 1 degree positive camber on the rear and 3mm toe-in on the front . the rest I will have to make up as I go . depends if the bloody thing goes in a straight line !!

[Edited on 28/5/2005 by hypo-vw]

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:10 pm

Craig Paton wrote:Hey Wayne

Cannot believe how quick you're putting this beast together!
One thing though, is the alloy front end! Aren't they a bit "iffy" for street use as far as wheel alignment.(Pot holes etc.)
And finally do they save about 80-100lbs?

Cheers Craig

I will have to try and avoid large pot holes on the street to look after the beam , but will be pulling it back out to narrow it in the near future . this will also help to stiffen it a little . the weight saved is closer to 35 pounds .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:12 pm

today Karen from KARENS AUTO TRIM , Shellharbour came to the workshop and fitted the new headlining .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:13 pm

headlining fitted and finished

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:15 pm

today I fitted the wastegate to the secondary engine pipes but haven't yet finished the dump-pipe .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:16 pm

the HAWAIIAN white rubbers and front guard beadings are fitted and looks great !!

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:17 pm

side view of the white rubbers

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:18 pm

rear view of the white rubbers

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:19 pm

how's the view through the rear oval window

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:21 pm

the LT-8 micotec computer is fitted and the wiring loom to the engine is connected

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:23 pm

there wasn't enough space in the engine bay for the mallory promaster ignition coil , so it has been fitted in the back of the oval

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:25 pm

rear view of the oval with the taillamps now being fitted and the electrics being sorted .

hypo-vw · 12 May 2005, 11:28 pm

this will blow you away !! pic shows the last rego label still attached to the front screen ( 1989 ). this is the screen from this car as the oval was stripped at my workshop 5 years ago and has been stored under cover since .

Doug Sweetman · 13 May 2005, 12:51 pm

Arrrgghhh youre killing me with the white rubbers !!!!

But its not my car is it, so I'm very happy that you like them.

This is an absolute work of art, and its just incredible how quick its going together !!!

Make sure you post some action shots and links to some video once the beast is firing in anger !

pete wood · 13 May 2005, 1:01 pm

what rims is it getting?

NigeType3 · 13 May 2005, 1:53 pm

I luv the white rubbers makes it look more like a church goer.
You should put wide std rims on it so you can have white walls to.
That will fool everyone hehehehehe

Doug Sweetman · 13 May 2005, 1:58 pm

Yeah, that'd look shit hot !

barls · 13 May 2005, 4:44 pm

hey wayne are the headers your using to take the exhaust forward from the heads, are they custom made or are they the stock ones off a 914( type 4 without the cooling fins) cause this is very similar to what i want to do with my exhaust on chaos minus the turbo for the moment. how do they go for ground clearance. btw i wasnt bagging you before just saying that it would be in the grey area of the design rules.

hypo-vw · 13 May 2005, 9:53 pm

pete wood wrote:what rims is it getting?

the rims are empi BRM's that are 15"x5.5" in silver 5-stud as pictured below

hypo-vw · 13 May 2005, 9:57 pm

rear quarter view of the BRM's . unfortunately due to excessive wheel track problems in the front end , stock 4-stud rims will be used at the VW drags next week . this will be rectified by narrowing the front beam shortly after this event and the BRM's also fitted to the front in 5-stud

hypo-vw · 13 May 2005, 9:59 pm

the rear of the oval finally looks complete with tail lamps and empi number plate frame . now I just need the number plates !!

pete wood · 14 May 2005, 9:34 am

looks tops wayne. Shame I won't be there to see you race...🙁

malcolm · 14 May 2005, 10:24 am

wayne i noticed the blow off valves go to atmophere for reg don,t they need to be recycled back into the inlet system for induction noise.

hypo-vw · 14 May 2005, 10:34 pm

malcolm wrote:wayne i noticed the blow off valves go to atmophere for reg don,t they need to be recycled back into the inlet system for induction noise.

a 1967 beetle doesn't have to comply with any AUSTRALIAN DESIGN RULES , so I am not aware of the legallities of venting the blow-off valve to atmosphere ( it is only an air pressure relief valve / NO FUEL ) . I will have to see what the engineer has to say and what it has to comply with for engineering purposes . Thanks for the comments though !!:duh

hypo-vw · 14 May 2005, 11:01 pm

today I spent the entire day doing all the crappy little jobs that needed to be done to complete the oval job properly . All of the factory wiring at the front of the oval is now repaired and connected ( headlamps , speedo , switches etc ) . I then manufactured the dump pipe from the waste-gate to the 3" engine pipe and welded it in place . After fitting up the engine pipe I then assembled the rest of the exhaust system and did a final fit-up including manufacturing support brackets . and finally fitted the battery box and did a dummy fit-up of the internal housing that will cover the turbo assembly . the box still has to be welded together . Eaton Fluidpower @ Unanderra manufactured and delivered the oil pressure line to the turbo and Fred @ Turbologic has the oil drain hose that I will collect on monday . all going well the oval should fire-into-life on monday afternoon . first pic shows the dump pipe welded to the engine pipe

hypo-vw · 14 May 2005, 11:02 pm

view from inside the oval of the turbo now complete with wastegate connected

hypo-vw · 14 May 2005, 11:04 pm

view from the rear of the engine of the waste-gate in the background and where the dump pipe is ducted to

hypo-vw · 14 May 2005, 11:05 pm

view from under the rear of the oval showing the design of the exhaust system

hypo-vw · 14 May 2005, 11:07 pm

rear view of the oval showing the exhaust outlet

hypo-vw · 14 May 2005, 11:10 pm

this pic shows the aluminium chequeplate housing that will cover the turbo assembly and the location of the battery box

dangerous · 15 May 2005, 9:42 am

Wayne, what A/R are you using on the turbine housing....it is a split pulse housing no?
DB

malcolm · 15 May 2005, 11:36 am

wayne the bearing on the turbo is that water or oil cooled.

Old Hutcho · 15 May 2005, 5:34 pm

Mate. Great car. Pity about those bloody white rubbers though!

Old Hutcho

hypo-vw · 15 May 2005, 11:07 pm

dangerous wrote:Wayne, what A/R are you using on the turbine housing....it is a split pulse housing no?
DB

the exhaust turbine housing is a 1.00 split pulse type . This is why the exhaust is designed the way it is , 1&3 had to be married together and also 2&4 .

hypo-vw · 15 May 2005, 11:09 pm

malcolm wrote:wayne the bearing on the turbo is that water or oil cooled.

the bearings in the turbo are oil cooled only . the water is there to cool the intercooler only .

hypo-vw · 15 May 2005, 11:11 pm

Old Hutcho wrote:Mate. Great car. Pity about those bloody white rubbers though!

Old Hutcho

HA HA !! Hutcho , see ya one the weekend .:kiss

hypo-vw · 15 May 2005, 11:22 pm

barls wrote:hey wayne are the headers your using to take the exhaust forward from the heads, are they custom made

the header-pipes on my type-4 engine were custom made by Lincoln @ TEDS MUFFLER SERVICE DAPTO 02-42612233 a couple of years ago . they used to face rearward on my sports sedan but I changed them from side to side to face forward to suit the turbo system in the oval .

hypo-vw · 18 May 2005, 8:22 pm

after 2 full days and nights of wiring and plumbing , the oval was fired up this morning and the ground shook !! It sounds great . The engineer came today to do the check over on the oval and it has FAILED its first inspection due to excessive noise . The noise meter showed 96dba @ idle and 110dba @ 3000rpm . I now have to do some exhaust homework before the weekend . The dyno at SOUTH-COAST ROTARY is booked now for friday . will post figures soon !!

GoLfMan · 18 May 2005, 8:41 pm

insane, this is truly inpirational 🙂 i love what youve done, a giant killer:P

OvalGlen · 18 May 2005, 8:45 pm

Excellent!.....
That sound (not noise) would seem Ok to me.
My exhaust points toward the ground as does yours.
Some one claimed to me that this could be defected due
to blowing dust up - dont know if this is true- the engineer
didnt say anything did he?
-
-
ps. at what distance do they measure Sound level? is it 4 m ?

boof2332 · 19 May 2005, 1:55 am

Did the engineer say anything about the BOV. The engineer doing our wrx conversions had that as a necessity, and stated that it is illegal to vent them to air. I have heard of cars being defected for it...like you say, its only air!

Turbo54 · 19 May 2005, 9:27 am

Is your car pre-emissions? If it is venting the BOV to the atmosphere is fine.
T54

VWCOOL · 19 May 2005, 10:17 am

Maaaan, you have a done a complete rebuild in the time it has taken me to fit a set of axle boots and pack my Buggy's wheel bearings! Good work

1303Steve · 19 May 2005, 10:19 am

Turbo54 wrote:Is your car pre-emissions? If it is venting the BOV to the atmosphere is fine.
T54

Its not the emissions its the noise.

sean68 · 19 May 2005, 6:13 pm

You don't think that this motor might fry the tyres a little bit 😉
Good job
Can't wait to see it run, scare the beejesus outa the v8's and rotors

pete wood · 20 May 2005, 10:53 am

OvalGlen wrote:Excellent!.....
That sound (not noise) would seem Ok to me.
My exhaust points toward the ground as does yours.
Some one claimed to me that this could be defected due
to blowing dust up - dont know if this is true- the engineer
didnt say anything did he?

My exhaust points at the ground too. My engineer didn't even mention it. All he could do was complement me on how quiet it was. 🙂

sean68 · 22 May 2005, 5:13 pm

here you go, action photo 😉
was good to see the runs
what was the best time

cheers
sean

[Edited on 22/5/2005 by sean68]

amazer · 23 May 2005, 11:07 am

Its a shame that you cant do anything these days without people driving 100 miles to find some pathetic reason why you shouldnt do it. This thread has it all, right down to being able to replace water in the intercooler.

The only thing I didnt see argued against this car was the use of silicon sealer! How did you guys let that through? Dont you know it gets in everywhere and clogs strainers and gallaries and it'll never last.... Oh hang on, theres moly galore, different expansion rates, cant use moly pushrods especially. Maybe those two are reserved for my engine builds.

The 1916 folks think that poor old stan gets picked on. Wayne builds an unbeatable sports sedan and shit gets put on him. He builds a bloody nice cabrio (and drives it amongst coal trucks, I see it on the streets ALL the time) and gets shit put on him about it not being a real daily driver. Now he builds this car, which is an 11 sec showstopper and you people still havent given up.

Im dreading restoring my oval and having everyone walk past it complaining about the radials in place of cross plies and the head liner not being right, and how the colour is 'close but not quite right' because they all have a better one than mine right? A lot of people need to go shove their heads up their arses. Congratulations wayne, nice build up story, nice car.

Doug Sweetman · 23 May 2005, 11:20 am

Amen.

Doug Sweetman · 23 May 2005, 11:20 am

Oh, and PS times please !!!!!

HotRodMatt · 23 May 2005, 11:20 am

amazer wrote:Now he builds this car, which is an 11 sec showstopper and you people still havent given up.

I haven't seen any comments about the build quality... The only "so called negatives" have related to whether or not it is legally legal or not - I'm sure most of those comments only came because of the wording of the initial post.

Anyway... here it is off the line.

HotRodMatt · 23 May 2005, 11:22 am

Doug Sweetman wrote:Oh, and PS times please !!!!!

The final...

Doug Sweetman · 23 May 2005, 11:32 am

Jesus - mid 11's on its first outing ?

thats just nuts.

You must be very happy Mr Penrose !

squizy · 23 May 2005, 11:36 am

So it got regirstered then?

HotRodMatt · 23 May 2005, 12:22 pm

So what happened to reverse?

It is broken or just trouble selecting? You didn't look happy about it....

56astro · 23 May 2005, 12:29 pm

HotRodMatt wrote:
amazer wrote:Now he builds this car, which is an 11 sec showstopper and you people still havent given up.
I haven't seen any comments about the build quality... The only "so called negatives" have related to whether or not it is legally legal or not
Anyway... here it is off the line.

Pretty right Matt. I'm extremely impressed with what Wayne regularly does.

A bit of tunnel vision or selective reading.

wacked1 · 23 May 2005, 12:39 pm

congrats wayne on the car and times.
cheers
wacked1

VWENVY · 23 May 2005, 1:02 pm

It might be a stupid question - but im wondering how you run an engine like this in? Im assuming there wasnt time for a 300km drive!? A couple of easy passes...?? Just interested!

amazer · 23 May 2005, 1:47 pm

56astro wrote:
HotRodMatt wrote:
amazer wrote:Now he builds this car, which is an 11 sec showstopper and you people still havent given up.
I haven't seen any comments about the build quality... The only "so called negatives" have related to whether or not it is legally legal or not
Anyway... here it is off the line.
Pretty right Matt. I'm extremely impressed with what Wayne regularly does.

A bit of tunnel vision or selective reading.

There's no tunnel vision, no selective reading. I just see a lot of negative amongst the genuine enquiries. Not necessarily against build quality, although its there, but I never mentioned the words myself.

Many comments, 1 or 2 pages?, from amatuer lawyers about legality of registration and BOV's.
Taunts about gene berg trophy from more than one person.
The side plate wayne used, wont hold up.
The welded diff, wont hold up.
Comments about putting cold water in the intercooler is cheating. Laughable. No more cheating than fitting the turbo.
JakJones post about the shift rod bush bracket. Derogatory.

Matts comments re ports and iswinkels comments about the traction bar and intercooler. conceded these may be interpretations. I just dont think you should tell someone they need something, or how to do something they have already done before. I mean friggin hell. Who would have used stock ports on this. Someone with a lot of speedway and hillclimbing behind him, plus at least 20 years of vw service probably would have an inkling that a standard port wont flow too well. I think some people just like to see their name up in lights saying look at me, I know about this. But yes, I admit I may have selective reading in those posts.

Wayne said it would be "fully engineered and street regeristed" Looks like it is to me. Car looks great and does 11's.

ruckus · 23 May 2005, 2:06 pm

HotRodMatt wrote:Anyway... here it is off the line.

Looks like a bit of twist in the body. How much of a hammering do the bodies take off the line?

Is there a a shelf-life for a bug body after which it is not safe to drag because of flexibility.

Sorry if this is an annoying question - I just don't know much 😠

ps: Awesome times Wayne. Hope everything is still happy with the car.

[Edited on 23/5/2005 by ruckus]

[Edited on 23/5/2005 by ruckus]

HotRodMatt · 23 May 2005, 2:12 pm

amazer wrote:Matts comments re ports

What sort of wally are you?

To save people looking here is the original...

HotRodMatt wrote:What have you done with the heads Wayne? Type 4 heads flow like meatloaf through a sieve. Gonna need tremendous flow for a 10 second car.

Wayne responded saying he has done work on them, porting and increasing valve size...

Tell me Chris, how is that anymore than a question?
Which by the way Wayne answered.

Obviously he can read.

amazer · 23 May 2005, 2:22 pm

keep em coming, but direct to my u2u please.

VDUBXTC · 23 May 2005, 2:24 pm

The way i read it, Wayne has reacted and responded to every single sencible question and comment.

I can't see anything wrong with matts question, it was simply asking a question and he recieved a reply to his question.

Jack Jones is a regular pain in the arse and i don't know why anyone takes what he says serriously, just go back and read his previous posts and you wil see for your self.

Amazar, just chill dude.
You are right in alot of what you have said and there has been a few ding bats on this thread. just ignore them. It looks like wayne has.

Ohh and congrats on getting the car up and going wayne. Good times for a first outing.

[Edited on 23/5/2005 by manx_xtc]

Brad · 23 May 2005, 2:43 pm

That is one cool Bug and I am very impressed with it ... now if he wound only fit a Baja Kit ... now that would be cool ......

Keep it up Wayne it is a great display of your capabilities and the proffesionalism people can expect from your business - http://www.wpvw.com.au/

Big Thumbs up :rudolf

pete wood · 23 May 2005, 3:52 pm

Hats off to you Wayne. From nasty old body shell to the fastest road registered bug in under six months. Sadly, I couldn't be there to see it. Hope you'll be coming up to WSID more often. Can't wait to see you waste some v8s in the flesh.

To everyone else, whether you agree with him or not, Wayne has yet again set the benchmark. First for show cars (and I'm not saying I love the mango) and now where the rubber hits the road. So cough up boys, if you wanna complain, do better.

Pete

[Edited on 23/5/2005 by pete wood]

Dasdubber · 23 May 2005, 4:02 pm

Congratulations Wayne, you should be commended on a job extremely well done. I am disappointed that the thread got off track so many times but also commend you for not getting caught up in the $hitfight.....so good bloody work!!

Turbo54 · 23 May 2005, 6:49 pm

Well done Wayne, Not only is it good to see another oval back on the roads but one that does mid 11's on it first outing. CONGRATS!!!
Do you think it will be good for tens? If it does drop, do you have to run chute etc.
What month 54 is it? Is it early cause your plates say 53?
Turbo54

Craig Torrens · 23 May 2005, 8:36 pm

Congrats Wayne.........................tell all the critics to get f#cked

Congrats on winning the GENE BERG trophy as well.:party

jakjones · 23 May 2005, 9:22 pm

ruckus wrote:
HotRodMatt wrote:Anyway... here it is off the line.

Looks like a bit of twist in the body. How much of a hammering do the bodies take off the line?

Is there a a shelf-life for a bug body after which it is not safe to drag because of flexibility.

[Edited on 23/5/2005 by ruckus]

[Edited on 23/5/2005 by ruckus]

I was gonna mention that but wasn't game :o

Still trying to get all the knife wounds in the back to heal.

VWCOOL · 23 May 2005, 9:54 pm

Awesome effort. I too have been an admirer of this bloke's work and he's set the standard yet again. Onya Penrose & Co

VWMA Editor · 24 May 2005, 8:56 am

It didn't surprise me that Wayne walked away with the win. He's a VW engine builder who knows the ins and outs from mild daily to full on racer.

Wayne built my 2 litre in the Bay. Couldn't have asked for better service and after sales assistance.

Congratulations on the win Wayne.

fullnoise · 24 May 2005, 10:33 am

Top effort Wayne.

Good to see another well presented Oval not only brought back to life but kicking butt.

I can't believe how quick it came together. I'm lucky to change my oil in that time.

CYA CT

hypo-vw · 24 May 2005, 10:54 pm

the oval was supposed to be dynoed on the monday before the drags , it was ready . Kevin @ SOUTH COAST ROTARY called early and asked if we could leave it until wednesday as he had an engine to build that day . That was OK by me . Tuesday morning he put another customers car on his dyno , only to find that a roller brake coil has failed and shorted out . Wednesday Kevin orders the new coil and it arrives on thursday . The coil is fitted , only to find that it still wont work as it shorted out the control board that operates the coils . Thursday 4.45 pm I am notified that the dyno will not be working . NOW I PANIC !! after 2 and a half months of busting my butt to get the oval finished , I could see it all ending before getting to the nationals drags . At 4.50 pm Kevin makes a call to SOUTH COAST 4WD @ north wollongong and secures the dyno for the friday morning . On the friday before the drags the oval is dynoed and a couple problems are uncovered . First , strapping the oval down becomes a major headache on the left side due to the extensive exhaust plumbing . One strap is melted and broken and the heat proof fire blanket is burned from the exhaust temperatures . second , we are not able to run the 20-22lb boost that I want to run as the injectors will only flow enough fuel to 14lb boost . So to play it safe for the first meeting out I run a maximum of 14lb boost . At 14lb boost the oval showed figures on the dyno of 207bhp on premium ULP, far below what was expected !! however it performed very well at the drags and has shown me the great potential it has to achieve the 10.9 @ 130mph , which I want from it .

hypo-vw · 24 May 2005, 11:11 pm

Doug Sweetman wrote:Oh, and PS times please !!!!!

1st run off the trailer 12.4 @ 116mph on 8lbs boost . 2nd run 11.9 @ 116mph on 14lbs boost . 3rd run 11.7 @ 121mph on 14lbs boost . 4th run 12.0 @ 122mph on 14lbs boost and the final run of 11.6 @ 119mph on 14lbs boost . I totally stuffed-up the start on the first 4 runs and on the last gave it too much and had lots of wheelspin . Still very happy with results though , just need to learn how to drive it properly !!

THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND KIND WORDS . IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE TO SHARE THIS BUILD UP WITH YOU AND WILL KEEP YOU UPDATED WITH FUTURE RESULTS .

hypo-vw · 24 May 2005, 11:15 pm

squizy wrote:So it got regirstered then?

yes , got it regeristed on the saturday before the drags . It will now stay regeristed and be used on a regular basis . sensibly driven on the streets !!

hypo-vw · 24 May 2005, 11:25 pm

HotRodMatt wrote:So what happened to reverse?

It is broken or just trouble selecting? You didn't look happy about it....

no I was not very happy about reverse gear not working , especially when I have just rebuilt the box and didn't fit the reverse gear properly !! to explain..........when using the early style reverse selector fork , I always (in my race boxes) fit the reverse gear in back to front so that it goes into mesh further . this makes the gear less likely to fail . it is harder to select as it doesn't have leading edge on the teeth but I am used to that . unfortunately the night that I stayed back and built the trans. I have fitted it in the correct direction ( not thinking ) and it now doesn't go into mesh correctly . with the leading edge on both the gear and the slider it wants to slide straight out . I STUFFED UP !!!

hypo-vw · 24 May 2005, 11:29 pm

VWENVY wrote:It might be a stupid question - but im wondering how you run an engine like this in? Im assuming there wasnt time for a 300km drive!? A couple of easy passes...?? Just interested!

this engine had already been run in my sports sedan , so it didn't need running in . If it hadn't been used previosly ,then a couple of easy passes is good for the engine . after that , drive it like you stole it !!

hypo-vw · 24 May 2005, 11:32 pm

ruckus wrote:
HotRodMatt wrote:Anyway... here it is off the line.

Looks like a bit of twist in the body. How much of a hammering do the bodies take off the line?

Is there a a shelf-life for a bug body after which it is not safe to drag because of flexibility.

not sure on the body life when being treated like this , but will keep a close look out around the body and body-mounts for signs of fatigue . If any problems are detected will keep you posted .

[Edited on 24/5/2005 by hypo-vw]

VWFOOL · 24 May 2005, 11:55 pm

my sisters boyfriend claims he saw a orangey/red old bug on the newcastle-sydney freeway keeping up with him at 240 km/h on the weekend, this wouldnt happen to be u would it?

VDUBXTC · 25 May 2005, 1:05 am

I'd say it was Ben Sam.
He went to sydney the other day

ruckus · 25 May 2005, 11:48 am

Thanks for the reply Wayne

VWCOOL · 25 May 2005, 5:43 pm

VWFOOL wrote:my sisters boyfriend claims he saw a orangey/red old bug on the newcastle-sydney freeway keeping up with him at 240 km/h on the weekend, this wouldnt happen to be u would it?

Faaark! I only ever saw 210km/h... he must have a 3.8 R&P!

dangerous · 25 May 2005, 10:27 pm

Hello Wayne, congrats on the great results. If you try the formulas published in VWMA on HP for weight I dont think you should be dissapointed. (issue #5 I think) The formula calculates engine HP, and yours are excelent for pump fuel and low boost...what does the car weigh with you on board?
Again, good work! Regards Dave Butler.

dangerous · 25 May 2005, 10:34 pm

Wayne, I like to install the gear in the correct direction, but I counter bore it to allow correct engagement depth.
Yes, it is hard material, but normal tungsten tips work ok in the lathe if you go slow.
Hope thi is of some help.

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:09 am

thanks for to info Dave , I can see where this will work . not a bad idea at all !!

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:39 am

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:41 am

exhaust heat burns one of the fire-proof blankets and melts one of the straps that the oval was tied down with

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:47 am

after breaking a strap and nearly leaping out of the rollers the oval is strapped down again and front wheel chocks added . I would like to thank the guys at SOUTH COAST 4WD for letting us use their dyno at such short notice . I would also like to thank Kevin @ SOUTH COAST ROTARY for leaving his very busy workshop and assisting me in setting up the microtec fuel injection on the oval .( that is Kevin in the passenger side of the oval busy with the laptop ) WITHOUT THE HELP OF THESE GUYS , WE WOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT TO THE DRAGS !!

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:48 am

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:49 am

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:50 am

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:52 am

NOT BROKEN AND NO OIL LEAKS !! check out how clean it still is

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:53 am

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:54 am

the low setting is currently set at 8 psi , and the high setting for now is at 14psi

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 7:55 am

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 8:01 am

you have already seen most of the hardware in the rear , but this is the finished shot . the extra tank fitted at the front of the sealing housing is the breather tank for the engine

VWFREAK · 26 May 2005, 8:08 am

Wayne, your out of contol, lol. Good to see, keep up the good work

56astro · 26 May 2005, 8:22 am

What next, Wayne .........

Well done

speedster356 · 26 May 2005, 8:30 am

Nice work Wayne.....
and what's the Riot in the background?

gayanne · 26 May 2005, 8:41 am

😉😉😉JVLRacing

Turbo54 · 26 May 2005, 10:10 am

What did it end up pulling on the dyno?
T54

Doug Sweetman · 26 May 2005, 11:51 am

207hp atw - its mentioned in one of the above posts.

YEah Pete - I wanna know about the Riot too - I didnt think there was any in Oz....

speedster356 · 26 May 2005, 1:04 pm

There was a Riot at Nat 04, owned by the guy with the Spyder at Nats 05. phil? bloom. Sydney

vw54 · 26 May 2005, 1:10 pm

Looks like a Manta they went broke a few years ago,

amazer · 26 May 2005, 1:13 pm

That thing has been sitting there since adam was a boy!

VWFOOL · 26 May 2005, 1:23 pm

u must feel so proud of urself, read this topic from start to finish, awesome!

squizy · 26 May 2005, 3:55 pm

Good job Wayne. You certainly put out some good stuff.

How tractable would a motor like that be for everyday driving - just for interests sake?

[Edited on 26-5-2005 by squizy]

fullnoise · 26 May 2005, 5:28 pm

So you're doing 192 kilometres per hour in 11 seconds with, what looks like, 1950s crash protection technology (or lack of). You're a brave man.

That's not meant as a criticism. I worry about my ovals ability to crash well and it's got a 6 point roll bar, Saas seats and a harness. I probably do 180 maximum and it takes a fair bit longer to get there.

Does it worry you?

It looks good. Thanks for providing such and interesting and suspenseful post.

CYA CT

56astro · 26 May 2005, 5:33 pm

speedster356 wrote:and what's the Riot in the background?

Weren't there 2 of these at last years Nats, parked down near the swap meet section?

amazer · 26 May 2005, 5:35 pm

mmmyeah, i was wondering how you hold your helmeted head up against the g forces with lowback seats.

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 8:45 pm

56astro wrote:What next, Wayne .........

Well done

MORE BOOST , BIGGER INJECTORS & 10'S

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 8:47 pm

speedster356 wrote:Nice work Wayne.....
and what's the Riot in the background?

I bought the riot several years ago and plan to do it up in the near future . I haven't had time in the last couple of years as I have been busy with MANGO DREAM and now the oval .

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 8:50 pm

Turbo54 wrote:What did it end up pulling on the dyno?
T54

on 14lbs boost it showed 207bhp @ the rear wheels

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 8:53 pm

Doug Sweetman wrote:207hp atw - its mentioned in one of the above posts.

YEah Pete - I wanna know about the Riot too - I didnt think there was any in Oz....

there were only 4 of these riot kit cars made here in OZ . the one that I have is the last one out of the mould . brother rod also has one , so in the family we have half of them . ha ha

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 8:57 pm

squizy wrote:Good job Wayne. You certainly put out some good stuff.

How tractable would a motor like that be for everyday driving - just for interests sake?

[Edited on 26-5-2005 by squizy]

I will let you know in a couple of weeks as I plan to drive the oval to work and back daily . being injected it is very smooth to drive at low RPM and you dont know that the turbo is there unless the throttle is jumped on .

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 9:06 pm

fullnoise wrote:So you're doing 192 kilometres per hour in 11 seconds with, what looks like, 1950s crash protection technology (or lack of). You're a brave man.

That's not meant as a criticism. I worry about my ovals ability to crash well and it's got a 6 point roll bar, Saas seats and a harness. I probably do 180 maximum and it takes a fair bit longer to get there.

Does it worry you?

CYA CT

nope !! the only minor concern that I had was the ovals ability to leave the start line straight , so I did my first run on 8lbs boost to get the feel of the car . IT FELT GREAT !! then it was 14lbs boost all the way and the oval left the line straight , stayed straight and felt secure . It didn't feel very fast , but when I looked down at the poor little 80mph speedo and the needle was stuck hard against the stop on the wrong side of zero then I knew we were hiking !!

hypo-vw · 26 May 2005, 9:10 pm

amazer wrote:mmmyeah, i was wondering how you hold your helmeted head up against the g forces with lowback seats.

even in 4th gear , the seat and me became one . It was pushing me back so hard that I felt that I was going rearward between the seat-back uprights as there is no support bar between them .

Golde60 · 26 May 2005, 10:01 pm

MORE BOOST , BIGGER INJECTORS & 10'S [/quote]

damn..... scary.

!! keep up the good work

[Edited on 26-5-2005 by Golde60]

ian.mezz · 27 May 2005, 10:38 am

yes i was wondering what the little speedo was doing:duh
twisting up a liitle bit i bet

wacked1 · 27 May 2005, 1:01 pm

what class will you run this awsome vehicle in??

pete wood · 27 May 2005, 5:29 pm

wacked1 wrote:what class will you run this awsome vehicle in??

C.M., that is 'completely mental'.

Wayne, what's it like doing your hobby fulltime, do you have a normal job to do on saturdays just to break up all the fun? :thumb

amazer · 27 May 2005, 6:03 pm

From my memory of VW service it generally sucked. Because a lot of people who drive a VW do it because they are cheap and go forever with no maintenance. At least thats what they think, so when they do come in, all hell has broken loose and they arent happy with the extra money they have to spend. Or even better, you have to repair the home maintenance. They were mostly always oily rusty buckets of poo to work on.

You also got to do all the jobs that home mechanics hated so there were plenty of clutch cable replacements, always undoing that bastard engine bolt behind the fan housing, and those sorts of things.

There were a exceptions of course, fullnoises car was in for a while, lucky for him I dont think I touched it. A woman by the name of sandra cootes was in rather often as she was having a run of bad luck with niggly things, but I really loved her car. Think it was a 65 beetle, in very neat unrestored condition. And then there was another female customer who was a nice bit of eye candy who spent a lot of time in the shop as well, wont mention her name. Some really fussy guy with a nice ghia who would get upset if his spark plugs werent polished before he left, and being in the right place at the right time I got my kombi for $400. Got to test drive some things I wouldnt have otherwise had a chance to, like the latest vans, a cordoba gti, etc.

Maybe its better if you are the boss AND have more experience than my 6 month tour of duty.

[Edited on 27-5-2005 by amazer]

reub · 27 May 2005, 10:05 pm

How does a 2.9 turbo efi 54 beetle get registered? I understood there was engine size limitations i.e. 2.5x the original vehicle weight.

Sweet car Wayne....

lugnuts · 28 May 2005, 6:26 am

That would be on page 2 dude :thumb

hypo-vw · 28 May 2005, 9:51 pm

wacked1 wrote:what class will you run this awsome vehicle in??

I haven't really looked into drag racing classes at all . I built the oval to drive on a daily basis mainly because I had spent so much money and time in developing the 2.9 type-4 engine and it has been sitting at my workshop in my sports sedan for a full 12 months not even driven . Last time it was driven was May last year at Huntley Hillclimb where I won the 2ltr-3ltr sports sedans class and set another new track record of 24.45 secs . I wanted to get it out and use it , and I thought that this would be the best way . I also had in mind using the oval to contest the VW nationals drags , have a lash at the Gene Berg trophy for the fastest regeristed VW and go to a few wednesday night drag meets at WSID .

[ Edited on 22-10-2005 by hypo-vw ]

reub · 29 May 2005, 12:32 am

Wayne, out of interest, what would it be worth to build an engine of this calibre, complete with injection and turbo.
I respect your answer should you not feel it appropriate to disclose the dollrs involved. Cheers

hypo-vw · 29 May 2005, 12:49 am

reub-revhead wrote:Wayne, out of interest, what would it be worth to build an engine of this calibre, complete with injection and turbo.
I respect your answer should you not feel it appropriate to disclose the dollrs involved. Cheers

to build this engine from scratch using all new parts I have calculated that it would cost approximately $25000-00 in parts alone . It has not cost me this much as I have saved parts over a long period of time to build the engine and have had a lot of assistance with the turbo set-up . Also items like the blow-off valve didn't cost me anything , as this item came off the top of a trophy that MANGO DREAM won last year at the Sydney Fast Fours Jamboree . yes you read it right !! we won 2 trophys on the day and both had working blow-off valves fitted to the top of the trophys . Now only 1 does !!
this alone saved me about $370-00

[Edited on 28/5/2005 by hypo-vw]

hypo-vw · 29 May 2005, 1:40 am

pete wood wrote:
wacked1 wrote:what class will you run this awsome vehicle in??
C.M., that is 'completely mental'.

Wayne, what's it like doing your hobby fulltime, do you have a normal job to do on saturdays just to break up all the fun? :thumb

I do still get up and look forward to going to work each day , and I don't take this for granted . I have worked very hard and without recognition for many years to get where I am today with my wife Lisa supporting and helping me along the way . She is the strength behind the partnership , I just have the knowledge and ability . Monday to Friday is mainly customer work and Saturday mornings are reserved for my own projects . To get the oval completed so quickly , I have been finishing customer work at around 5pm each day for the last 2 months and then working on the oval til around midnight / 2am . Surviving on 3 to 4 hours sleep takes its toll and I am now stuffed . Time to spend time with Lisa and the kids .

pete wood · 29 May 2005, 3:21 pm

Enjoy mate, you've earned it.

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 7:53 am

the oval has been fitted with a rear venetian , supplied by George @ CLASSIC VEEDUB SYDNEY and makes the oval look really stock . inside view

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 7:55 am

outside view of the rear venetian

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 7:59 am

the sump plug oil temperature sender copped a real hiding at the drags as the back of the oval squatted down so low that the sender dragged on the track from the start line . pic shows a very damaged sump sender .

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 8:07 am

I have also found that the selector housing on the transmission is broken at the mounting bolts . TOO MUCH TORQUE !! or MAYBE JUST BEEN ABUSED !! fortunately the transmission has to be removed to repair the reverse gear and while the box is apart my ZF limited slip diff will be fitted . This will make it easier and safer to drive on the street .

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 8:09 am

the heat must have got too much for this plastic cap that was sealing off the heater tunnel

VWCOOL · 2 Jun 2005, 10:08 am

...lol... that's kinda funny!

I have a brace that mounts from the selector housing/gearbox case bolts to prevent hard launches snapping the front mount.. I think u need the same!

[Edited on 2/6/2005 by VWCOOL]

amazer · 2 Jun 2005, 10:22 am

hypo-vw wrote:makes the oval look really stock.

LMAO, not with the white writing and not without the engine lid.

😀

Might look stock to a ford driver.

Turbo54 · 2 Jun 2005, 10:49 am

Hi Wayne,
I was thinking about it and your car should easy dip into the tens once it's sorted.
Adam Deb's Green Turbo Beetle made 215@RW with a 1915 at 14psi and ran a 11.88 on a 38 degree day. I was suprised that your HP was only 207. Do you know what the engine made with no turbo? Your MPH is pretty high so it must come on mid track? What were your 60 foots? I cant wait to see what it can really run. What happens when you break 10's. Dont you need a cage and chute then before they will let you race.
Turbo54

Boostn · 2 Jun 2005, 3:05 pm

Hi Wayne

CONGRATULATIONS.
Fantastic first time out, full credit to you and Lisa.It's good to hear that I'm not the only one with the sad life.(working 16 hr days)
The car came together VERY quickly, and 11.60 is great first time out. I expect to see more breakage's and problems
as you screw more power in, only natural. If it was easy every one would be doing it.

Once again congratulations.

Nick
Vollkommen Art
vollkommenart@bigpond.com

Speed and Style

HotRodMatt · 2 Jun 2005, 3:19 pm

Turbo54 wrote:What happens when you break 10's. Dont you need a cage and chute then before they will let you race.

Also needs to be more than 140mph.

I suspect it won't be long before Wayne tweaks a few things and the car is required to be ANDRA inspected.

When some slicks go on (or even wider feet) I think he's gonna need some wheelies too!

When you see it from right beside the track it hooks up harder just after it starts its forward motion.

[Edited on 2-6-2005 by HotRodMatt]

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 9:34 pm

VWCOOL wrote:...lol... that's kinda funny!

I have a brace that mounts from the selector housing/gearbox case bolts to prevent hard launches snapping the front mount.. I think u need the same!

[Edited on 2/6/2005 by VWCOOL]

if you check out the previous pics earlier in this post of the trans build-up you will see that I already have a Gene Berg style front mount which bolts to the gear carrier housing .

VWCOOL · 2 Jun 2005, 9:51 pm

cool... maybe a bit more pre-load, then!

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 10:04 pm

Turbo54 wrote:I was suprised that your HP was only 207. Do you know what the engine made with no turbo? Your MPH is pretty high so it must come on mid track? What were your 60 foots? I cant wait to see what it can really run. What happens when you break 10's. Dont you need a cage and chute then before they will let you race.
Turbo54

BHP @ the rear wheels is relivant to the gear ratios used . If you use taller gears then your BHP will be lower , if you use lower ratio gears then the BHP will be higher . Previously I used this engine normally aspirated and trans was fitted with a 4.375 diff and a 1.31 4th gear set . With this combination the BHP was 181@ the rear wheels and 1062lbs of tractive effort . The oval trans is now fitted with a 3.875 diff and a 1.04 4th gear set and with this combination the BHP was 207@ the rear wheels and 920lbs of tractive effort .
It sounds like I have done all of this work for nothing , but its just the gear ratios that change the figures . To do a comparrison on the dyno I asked Kevin to do a print out on a 3rd gear power run as the 3rd gear ratio and the diff ratio that I am using now is nearly the same as the old trans in 4th gear . He tried , but unsuccessfully as the tyres kept turning in the rollers as it came on boost . This was due to the oval not being strapped down secure enough due to the excessive amount of exhaust plumbing under the car . We couldn't get enough downward force from the straps , but it clearly showed us how much more power the engine is now producing .
It does come on pretty strong at the top end as my 60 foot times were quite slow @ 1.7 due to me stuffing up every start . The run that I did 12.0 @ 122mph had a 60 foot time of 2.35 so it is easy to see the potential 10's .
I dont know all the rules of drag racing yet , but I am led to believe that when you break into the 10's your car needs a full ANDRA tech inspection and roll cage .

hypo-vw · 2 Jun 2005, 10:09 pm

amazer wrote:
hypo-vw wrote:makes the oval look really stock.
LMAO, not with the white writing and not without the engine lid.

😀

Might look stock to a ford driver.

wont be long Chris and you will see it cruising around the local area . putting around like a little church goer !!

hypo-vw · 3 Jun 2005, 11:05 pm

after taking the oval for a few runs down the street to show my staff members how good the oval goes after all the work that they have seen done to it over the past couple of months , the deep sump hit the ground on a flat stretch of road when I jumped on the throttle in 2nd gear at about 60kph . This loosened the sump plug sender after grinding the electrical terminal right off . I wasn't aware of this until I had slowed down to enter the workshop driveway , crawling along in 1st gear , when Michael ( a team member ) yelled out ' shut it down ' . The sump plug literally fell out onto the road and dumped a considerable amount of engine oil . Michael grabbed the sump plug off the road and dived under the rear of the oval and fitted the plug before we lost all of the oil . NO DAMAGE DONE !! but we spent quite a while cleaning up the oil and laying down kittylitter to soak up any excess . It is now very obvious why sump plugs need to be wired on competition cars !! After all of this just the look on Michaels face when I jumped on the throttle for the first time made it all worthwhile . All test flights on the road were conducted on 8psi boost and he cant wait to see what it goes like on 14psi and higher !!

Bizarre · 15 Jun 2005, 1:43 pm

bugger 😀

Che Castro · 18 Jun 2005, 8:49 am

any videos??? I would love to see this beast moving

VWCOOL · 18 Jun 2005, 9:35 am

hypo-vw wrote:
Turbo54 wrote:I
BHP @ the rear wheels is relivant to the gear ratios used . If you use taller gears then your BHP will be lower , if you use lower ratio gears then the BHP will be higher .
ERrr... can't quite agree with that. Your tractive efforts (eg effort per rev of the tyre at the contact patch) will change, but power is power no matter what gear you are in. There may be tiny differences due to gear sets, but this is due to changes in hardware efficiency, not power...

Ouch! The sump...

dangerous · 18 Jun 2005, 5:45 pm

I hate to sound critical, but I would say that gearing does not
effect the power output also.
Dynos measure torque...power is a mathematical calculation
using torque and rpm.
The latest figures you have are very good and match my
calculations(I guessed the weight)
I would suggest that the last dyno figures that you had with
your N/A combo may be a little optimistic....unless you dynoed
it at 1000m bellow sea level!
Please dont take this the wrong way, its just that I am a real
stickler for acurate and comparable data, and the last dyno that you used with the turbo car at least gives data that will
allow you to better predict quarter mile speeds(if that is
what your customer asks for.)
But the reality is that you probably only use the dyno to
optimise tuning and can make comparisons from experience.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
....But may be it should be on a fresh post/survey.
Best regards, Dave Butler.

hypo-vw · 27 Jul 2005, 11:06 pm

a new muffler has been manufactured by KEVIN @ ACTIVE EXHAUST SYSTEMS and measures 24" long x 7" diameter and has a 3" perforated centre tube . It is so quiet that you cannot hear it running from 30 feet . The performance has not been affected at all !! It is such a pleasure to drive on the street . will post pics soon , before the engine is removed to ceramic coat all of the exhaust and intake plumbing .

OvalGlen · 11 Aug 2005, 8:31 pm

Wayne, I anxiously await pics of the muffler, It may give me
some ideas of qietening mine - its not Too bad now
but if I ever get the Blower done it will be annoying.

VWFREAK · 11 Aug 2005, 9:46 pm

Your a very lucky man Wayne, there wasn't any real damadge after the oil incident.

hypo-vw · 14 Aug 2005, 12:12 am

this is a view of the custom made muffler from the tail-pipe end .

hypo-vw · 14 Aug 2005, 12:14 am

this view of the muffler is straight down from the top , looking at the large cut-a-way section at the front of the muffler to accomodate the oil filler tube .

hypo-vw · 14 Aug 2005, 12:16 am

a view from the left hand side . a 3" donut had to be cut to make the short / sharp turn into the muffler .

hypo-vw · 14 Aug 2005, 12:21 am

this view shows how large the muffler is . It is 24" long x 7" diameter . It is 3" straight through perforated tube and fibreglass packed . many thanks go to KEVIN @ HYPERFLOW ACTIVE EXHAUST SYSTEMS for the time and effort he put into manufacturing this custom made muffler to suit the oval .

OvalGlen · 31 Aug 2005, 9:35 pm

That is awesome, Really neat install, just the ticket!
I guess some quietening could be attributed to the turbo.
I will have to visit your Exhaust Expert.nn[ Edited on 31-8-2005 by OvalGlen ]

hypo-vw · 31 Aug 2005, 11:53 pm

OvalGlen wrote:I guess some quietening could be attributed to the turbo.

The turbo didn't quieten it as much as I had expected for such a low compression engine . I think this was due to the 3" diameter system . With the hotdog type muffler that I ran at the drags the noise was checked by the engineer 102db @ idle and 111db @ 3000rpm . With the new muffler fitted it was rechecked 93db @ idle and 97db @ 3000rpm . I still firmly believe that the majority of the noise coming from this car is the engine noise and not the exhaust noise . Runs very quiet !!

OvalGlen · 6 Oct 2005, 9:49 am

Wayne, was speaking to my Mate the other day (you probably know which one) He gave me detailed account of Your Street Registered car - drives smooth and sweet
when dawdling behind other cars in traffic and then he
described the effect of mashing the throttle -:- Basically he
said that it has spoilt his conception of a fast VW, he has been in many Bugs that he thought were Fast " he was Wrong".
He said that your car accelerates really fast and just when he expected that it would run out of puff it Keeps on accelerating. Then More and then you change gear.
He thought that it would be good in the future if you took people to the shops with you that you have
Extra Heavy duty Grab handles.
So Got the BIG :thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb
for all round use and Fastest Street Registered VW he's ever seen.

hypo-vw · 17 Oct 2005, 9:01 pm

OvalGlen wrote:He thought that it would be good in the future if you took people to the shops with you that you have
Extra Heavy duty Grab handles

for all round use and Fastest Street Registered VW he's ever seen.

tell him that I have just purchased a new grab handle ( oh jesus bar ) from George at Classic VW and will be installing it soon .

VWFREAK · 17 Oct 2005, 9:42 pm

Nice one Wayne, she's really coming together.

hypo-vw · 4 Dec 2005, 11:38 pm

for those of you who are interested , more details on the turbo oval can be found on my new website at www.wpvw.com.au . turbo buggy not up there yet , but on the way !!

:beer

squizy · 5 Dec 2005, 9:59 am

So Wayne....after quite a few months of driving this setup, is it still tractable for daily use or a bit of a bitch? Just interested....it was a question I asked earlier, but now with a few more months use, would like to know your thoughts.

hypo-vw · 12 Dec 2005, 11:37 pm

squizy wrote:So Wayne....after quite a few months of driving this setup, is it still tractable for daily use or a bit of a bitch? Just interested....it was a question I asked earlier, but now with a few more months use, would like to know your thoughts.

I find that I can jump into the oval at any time and just turn the key and drive it . No reliability problems as yet .

I found that the cam in the engine was far too large for slow driving ( 320degree duration and .534" lift ) was suited to a normally aspirated engine and worked best with a high compression ratio .

My engine is turbo , and low compression . So I designed and ordered a turbo grind cam that would suit my application much better and would eliminate the loss of boost out the exhaust due to large overlap . The cam has arrived and will be fitted shortly after christmas . I anticipate more boost in the cylinders and more power with the ability to drive much more sedately around town .

Will keep you posted on progress after cam change .

Merry Christmas to all .....................

sean68 · 13 Dec 2005, 4:48 pm

Hi Wayne
just a question
how well would this muffler you got made work on a bridge port 13b as my mate just put one in his RX2 and as you would guess it's freakin loud 🤪
What would it cost to get one made up

cheers
sean

hypo-vw · 14 Dec 2005, 10:17 pm

sean68 wrote:Hi Wayne
just a question
how well would this muffler you got made work on a bridge port 13b as my mate just put one in his RX2 and as you would guess it's freakin loud 🤪
What would it cost to get one made up

cheers
sean

the muffler that I had manufactured quieten' down the oval from 111db to 97db , and this is straight through 3" perforated tube . Kevin also makes them to order for South Coast Rotary , who fits them to rotors to quieten them down without losing performance . They will vary in cost depending on size, diameter, lenght etc ,but the one that I had made cost around $260-00 . Give me a call on 02-42725844 during business hours and I will give you his number direct .

[ Edited on 14-12-2005 by hypo-vw ]

Graeme · 23 Dec 2005, 7:58 pm

Hi wayne,
I sent n email the other day about some type four heads i was seeking advice on, after reading your build up on this post. Did you per chance get it, as i have had heaps of trouble recieving other peoples e-mails lately...
Cheers Graeme
👍

hypo-vw · 20 Jul 2006, 1:55 am

well after driving the oval for just over 12 months , including back and forth to work every day of the school holidays as my son Dean wanted to cruise in it , the oval has been put back in the shop to refreshen the engine . As I didn't fit new piston rings or refreshen the engine when I did the oval build-up . I just removed the engine from my sports sedan , decompressed it , and set up the blow-through EFI intercooled turbo system . It has been extremely reliable and streetable with the only problems being 1 spark plug oiling up after many short runs around town .
I have had a new turbo grind cam manufactured , new heavy-duty camfollowers , new piston rings and I am going to up the compression ratio from 6.1 to 8.5 . I will refreshen the tied old heads again as the hybrid end-port heads that I am working on are not ready as yet .
Monday night the engine was removed from the oval . Tonight my son Dean ( now 14yrs ) stayed back at work with me and stripped the engine whilst I worked on customers cars .

hypo-vw · 20 Jul 2006, 2:02 am

Dean strips the engine for me and I am very shocked to find a large crack in the top of the engine case inside the fan housing area .
After removing the heads and barrels an inspection of the inside of the case doesn't help me as to the reason why . I cant see the crack due to its location , but I will strip the bottom end tomorrow and all will be revealed .

dangerous · 20 Jul 2006, 5:59 am

Nothing better than seeing a son and his dad working on a Volksy together!

56astro · 20 Jul 2006, 9:32 am

You can tell he's a "Penrose" cause of the blue lab coat!
:thumb

pete wood · 22 Jul 2006, 10:49 am

hypo-vw wrote:Dean strips the engine for me and I am very shocked to find a large crack in the top of the engine case inside the fan housing area .
After removing the heads and barrels an inspection of the inside of the case doesn't help me as to the reason why . I cant see the crack due to its location , but I will strip the bottom end tomorrow and all will be revealed .

well, I spose the case has lived a long hard life. so it had happen at some stage.

gull · 26 Jul 2006, 3:01 pm

can I get a close shot of the cuting of the rear clip please Wayne .

cheers seagull

hypo-vw · 27 Jul 2006, 12:18 am

well I have disassembled the engine and split the case to remove the crank and cam , to find that the crack that is visible on the outside of the case is extremely small on the inside . Nothing has broken in the engine and there is no internal case damage . We have come to the conclusion that the crack is a stress fracture . I will be able to have the case rewelded and braced in this area .

[ Edited on 26-7-2006 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 26-7-2006 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 27 Jul 2006, 12:25 am

not so healthy , I found that the piston ring end-gaps are between 3mm and 4mm on all of the top rings . The second rings are not much better .

Also number 4 cylinder has cracked the spigot on the barrel . This answers my suspisions regarding the pistons coming too far down the barrels , when using those large 8mm decompression shims . This will need to be rectified .

hypo-vw · 27 Jul 2006, 12:29 am

the new turbo-grind special cam . designed purely for this engine combination .
The straight-cut adjustable cam gear .

hypo-vw · 27 Jul 2006, 12:35 am

the Bernie Bergmann 82mm Full-circle counterweighted crankshaft with eagle chromemoly H-beam conrods .
the crank has been flexing as the centre main bearings are very worn .
last pic tonight is the new heavy-duty camfollowers that have a .024" oiling hole in the base to lubricate the cam lobe as it is running .

seagull · 27 Jul 2006, 1:48 am

Wayne , I can ship you a $66.66 cents subaru jap Turbo motor & lend you an adapter plate & fly wheel .

Can I please have a closer photo of the place you cut the rear clip off the oval .& is the rear still steel ?
how did you make it so it bolts back on .

cheers seagull

hypo-vw · 28 Jul 2006, 7:51 pm

seagull wrote:Wayne , I can ship you a $66.66 cents subaru jap Turbo motor & lend you an adapter plate & fly wheel .

Can I please have a closer photo of the place you cut the rear clip off the oval .& is the rear still steel ?
how did you make it so it bolts back on .

cheers seagull

will take closer pics tomorrow and post them . the rear is still steel .

seagull · 28 Jul 2006, 11:51 pm

Thanks mate

I chop my 60 the same , looks the way to go with my WRX turbo up grade

seagull

Turbo54 · 31 Jul 2006, 11:39 am

Wayne, I am after a muffler the same as yours. Can you supply? How Much and postage to Adelaide.
Do you know how many DB you car has?
T54

malcolm · 31 Jul 2006, 12:54 pm

after stripping the motor and finding the wear on the engine parts would that motor be to stressed for a daily driver.also can you fit oil squirters in a type 4 case .
cheers malcolm.

seagull · 1 Aug 2006, 1:26 am

I have my grinder ready

555bug · 1 Aug 2006, 7:06 pm

yes please Wayne, I need to know before the W deck lid goes on. Pictures 🙂

seagull · 2 Aug 2006, 1:14 am

Please W

dangerous · 2 Aug 2006, 7:45 am

malcolm wrote:after stripping the motor and finding the wear on the engine parts would that motor be to stressed for a daily driver.also can you fit oil squirters in a type 4 case .
cheers malcolm.

Remember that this bottom end served Wayne for many years of circuit and hillclimb action,
only barrel spacers were added for the turbo.
I would immagine that a slightly different counterweight could improve the CM bearing life.
I am not Type 4 fluent, but feel that sqiirters could be fitted with out much trouble.
Some use Weber Idle jets.

Wayne you have a U2U.

hypo-vw · 2 Aug 2006, 8:28 am

a couple of pics of the rear of the oval , where I cut the complete rear apron assembly off the car and made it detachable . Hope these pics help .... I welded a 40mm x 3mm plate down the inside of the body section . Then welded 4 tabs onto the body ( 2 at the top of the cut and 2 at the bottom ) Place the rear section into position and clamp securely . Then drill holes through the body and through the plates and tabs ( 8mm through the side plates and 6mm through the tabs ) Bolt the rear assembly on and check alignment . All plates and tabs have welded nuts for ease of assembly and disassembly .

hypo-vw · 2 Aug 2006, 8:33 am

malcolm wrote:after stripping the motor and finding the wear on the engine parts would that motor be to stressed for a daily driver.also can you fit oil squirters in a type 4 case .
cheers malcolm.

The motor is not too stressed for a daily driver , but it is going to be repaired ( improved ) and reused in the oval with the goal in mind of running 10.5 @ 130mph . I have no doubt that we will do this .
The oval will also be running at the VWMA Warrick weekender .

hypo-vw · 2 Aug 2006, 8:40 am

Turbo54 wrote:Wayne, I am after a muffler the same as yours. Can you supply? How Much and postage to Adelaide.
Do you know how many DB you car has?
T54

The mufflers are custom made for each application . Just send me your design and dimensions and I will make it for you . cost approx. $350 . my muffler is 3" diameter , fibreglassed packed and quitened the oval from 108db to 97db approx . very quiet and can drive on the street without any noise issues . My muffler is also clearanced at the front for the oil filler tube . See my article in the VWMA on the type-3 to check out other designs .

hypo-vw · 26 Aug 2006, 11:55 pm

the engine has been totally stripped down and everything has now been checked . The crank has been crack tested and looks OK .
I have chosen a new set of Manley 105.5mm pistons for the rebuild and have had a set of 105mm barrels bored out .5mm / .020" to suit them . The pistons are for a V8 chevrolet engine and the conrods need to have new gudgeon bushes made to suit the smaller Chev size pins .
The pistons that I have chosen are 12.5:1 lumpy tops and I am machining the tops down to suit the compression ratio that I would like to set the engine at .
There is lots of thickness in the piston crowns and machining them is not a problem .
Total seal piston rings have already arrived .

hypo-vw · 27 Aug 2006, 12:00 am

I have had the inlet ports welded up to enable me to machine the ports out for a much larger inlet port and better gas flow .
Prior to porting the heads , I place the heads on my milling machine to reface the inlet port surfaces .

[ Edited on 26-8-2006 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 27 Aug 2006, 12:09 am

now I sit down for approximately 5 hours and painstakenly port out the inlet ports . You can see by the amount of aluminum filings all over the workbench , just how much material has been removed .
The second pic shows the inlet port on the left has been ported and the gasket that is used for the template is fitted to the right side port which shows the extent of the porting required .
The third pic shows the template gasket fitted to the old heads . The old heads produced 210bhp .

hypo-vw · 27 Aug 2006, 12:14 am

after the heads are ported the inlet manifolds are fitted to show just how large the new ports are . The manifolds have now been sent to be welded up , to enable me to match-port the manifolds to the heads .

hypo-vw · 27 Aug 2006, 12:19 am

next is to mark the engine case and cylinder heads where I want the engineer to build up areas with aluminum weld as I have decided to fit an extra 5th headstud to each cylinder to improve the seal on the type-4 heads .
The barrels that I will be using are drilled for the extra headstud , so they are fitted to the engine case and the case and heads are marked as shown .

hypo-vw · 27 Aug 2006, 12:26 am

while the engine parts are away being welded , I have removed the turbo and all plumbing and also removed the transmission so that I can strip it down and check all parts .
All of the inlet turbo plumbing has been sent to be powdercoated whilst all of the exhaust plumbing will be totally wrapped with heat-wrap . A turbo bag will also be fitted to the turbo to keep the heat in the turbo for added performance .

[ Edited on 26-8-2006 by hypo-vw ]

reub · 27 Aug 2006, 12:39 am

Nuts....but extremely cool to see Wayne

Dasdubber · 27 Aug 2006, 8:32 pm

Nice update pics - I'm loving seeing the progress especially being a type IV buff as well! 👍

Flintstones · 27 Aug 2006, 9:02 pm

What kind of horsepower are you expecting from the new manifold/head arrangement?

Cheers

hypo-vw · 27 Aug 2006, 10:44 pm

Flintstones wrote:What kind of horsepower are you expecting from the new manifold/head arrangement?

Cheers

Its very hard to estimate the horsepower of the head and manifold modifications as there are other things that I am doing to the engine at the same time . My aim is to improve on the current horsepower figures of 210bhp @ the rear wheels .
Other items are as follows , fitting of custom grind turbo cam , raising of compression ratio from 6.1 to 9.0 , chromemoly large diameter main bearing bolts to reduce case flexing , extra 5th head stud for each cylinder to improve head to barrel sealing , new 105.5mm Manley pistons with total seal piston rings , increase of exhaust valve size from 38mm to 40mm , replacement of stainless steel valves with titanium valves , replacement of injectors from 550cc to 800cc , fit turbo bag to turbo , fit heat wrap to entire exhaust system , change of fuel from premium unleaded to C16 race fuel , and most importantly ... screw the boost up to ...........?
I will not be happy with the results if I don't see figures in the range of 320bhp @ the rear wheels
To add to this the transmission is being rebuilt into a new rhino case with heavy duty billet side covers , so that I can give it a much harder time !!
Also the front beam is being narrowed 4" and the BRM's are finally going on the front also . Have been waiting for a Vintage front disc kit since May 05 and still hasn't arrived . Cant wait any longer so the beam will be narrowed .
:jesus

[ Edited on 27-8-06 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 27-8-06 by hypo-vw ]

Flintstones · 27 Aug 2006, 11:39 pm

Cool, looking forward to the results. 👍
Cheers

dragvw2180 · 27 Aug 2006, 11:46 pm

Hey Wayne,
Are you going to shuffle pin the case or is that not needed with your combo,also what improvements are you going to do to the exhaust ports? What you have done so far looks great,
Mike

hypo-vw · 1 Sep 2006, 12:12 am

dragvw2180 wrote:Hey Wayne,
Are you going to shuffle pin the case or is that not needed with your combo,also what improvements are you going to do to the exhaust ports? What you have done so far looks great,
Mike

Hi Mike , I'm not going to pin the case as I have had great success in the past with my hillclimb engines , using custom made 12mm chromemoly main bearing bolts . The case halves have to be machined for them to fit through and they keep the case very solid ( no shuffle with revs up to 8900rpm ).
Back in 2003 I lifted the top off a piston at Mt Panorama Hillclimb , Bathurst . It did quite a lot of damage to the engine and destroyed the engine case . When rebuilding the engine I didn't fit the chromemoly main bearing bolts as I was going to use them in another engine that I was preparing at the time . This is why I now have had shuffle in this engine and destroyed the centre main bearing .

hypo-vw · 1 Sep 2006, 12:22 am

inlet ports have had more material added for better strenght and the lower 2 cooling fins have been welded together to make a mounting surface for the cylinder head nuts on the 5th head studs .

Close-up of the welded area on the cylinder heads , for the 5th head stud . This area still has to be refaced .

A view of the cylinder head from the combustion chamber side .

hypo-vw · 1 Sep 2006, 12:30 am

exhaust ports have been welded also , so that they can be ported also . First I must mount the heads on my milling machine and reface the exhaust flange faces .

inlet manifolds have been welded up so that they can be match-ported to the heads . The engineer added 15mm of aluminium weld to the manifold runners .

You can now see how the manifolds and cylinder heads will match together .

Euro_67 · 1 Sep 2006, 9:15 am

Wayne, any chance of an update on the Type IV into the notch ?

hypo-vw · 2 Sep 2006, 6:24 pm

1964_Notch wrote:Wayne, any chance of an update on the Type IV into the notch ?

All updates are posted in the VWMA magazine . Since the last issue nearly 6 weeks ago I haven't had the time to even look at it due to customer projects , photo shoots for VWMA , Nambucca preparation and Warrick preparation . Craig wont be pleased , but he caused most of the delays by organising such good events !!

66deluxe · 2 Sep 2006, 8:13 pm

Wayne, that is lookin good, being a type 4 man, i am very happy to see the progress. Are those intake manifolds been shortened and if they have can you modify them too fit in a type 3? Cheers Damien.

70Turbobug · 3 Sep 2006, 4:18 am

Great Thread! Great job on the whole project! Do you have any more pics of the cracks in your case? Or where you welded after the cracks? I´d appreciate it!
I´m in the process of building a 103 x 88 T4 turbo.The case work has just been finished.I´ll be sending it back for a couple of other mods to it - so that would give me an idea of where I need to stiffen the case at.
This is great info! This is the 1st 2.9+ Liter T4 Turbo I´ve seen in detail that has actually been down the strip:thumb

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:05 am

well after spending the past couple of weeks working the midnight shifts on the oval , I thought it time for a quick update .
pic 1- inlet manifolds have been refaced after extensive welding .
pic 2- a template is made for the combustion chambers so that the chambers can be reshaped and releived around the valve area .
pic 3- a comparison between the original chambers and the modified chambers .

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:14 am

pic 1- hard at work , porting and polishing the heads . So far I have spent 90 hours on the heads and they are still not finished .
pic 2- the chambers are finished and polished .
pic 3- the exhaust ports are ported to match-port a 1 5/8" exhaust tube that has been pressed into an oval shape . They are then polished . The exhaust seats are to be replaced , so these ports will have to be cleaned up again after the new seats are fitted .

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:20 am

pic 1- the inlet ports are machined for clearanced to the top centre head nuts .
pic 2- the holes are drilled for the 5th headstuds .
pic 3- whilst the engineer is welding the engine case and heads again , I decide to rebuild the transmission . Here the transmission is stripped down and everything inspected for wear or damage . Everything looks fine .

[ Edited on 15-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 15-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:30 am

pic 1- the new rhino housing is machined so that the engine mounting strap kit will fit .
pic 2- a Berg bronze bush kit for the clutch fork is fitted to ensure that there is no distortion from the clutch fork when depressing the 3000lb pressure plate .
pic 3- a Berg PRO1000 heavy duty pinion bearing retainer will be fitted to ensure that the pinion bearing wont move from its correct location .

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:35 am

pic 1- the gear carrier assembly is reassembled and selectors adjusted .
pic 2- transmission is being reassembled .
pic 3- the swing axle ZF limited diff assembly that will keep the oval going in a straight line .

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:40 am

pic 1- the pinion bearing is bolted in place and tensioned as required . the mainshaft is connected and circliped .
pic 2- transmission is now completed and fitted with heavy duty billet alloy side covers .
pic 3- the Berg chromemoly axles now fitted to the transmission .

[ Edited on 15-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:45 am

pic 1- a new axle boot is fitted and the Berg heavy duty side plate strengtheners are fitted to support the axle tube flanges .
pic 2- the transmission is now ready to be fitted back into the oval .
pic 3- the lower stud on the axle flanges had to be machined down to the nut , so that the transmission will fit between the chassis forks .

[ Edited on 15-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 15-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 16 Sep 2006, 1:50 am

last pic tonight is a view of the rear of the oval completed and more updates will follow .

58bbugger · 16 Sep 2006, 3:32 am

Hey Mate
it looks great!

are you going to make it for the jamboree?

or are you aiming for Warrick?

how soon untill it's finished?

hypo-vw · 17 Sep 2006, 12:41 am

58bbugger wrote:Hey Mate
it looks great!

are you going to make it for the jamboree?

or are you aiming for Warrick?

how soon untill it's finished?

Not planning on going to the jamboree this year , but will definately be at Warrick in 2 weeks time . Every thing was going to plan until my engineer got violently ill and has now been off for the past week . Planning on a few late nights this week and want the oval running by next saturday at the latest .

ruckus · 17 Sep 2006, 10:46 am

Hey Wayne does the inlet setup now make the heads etc fairly bullet-proof? Just thinking about how much time and effort this takes and whether the pay-offs are greater than flow rates but also durability as well?

hypo-vw · 17 Sep 2006, 6:35 pm

ruckus wrote:Hey Wayne does the inlet setup now make the heads etc fairly bullet-proof? Just thinking about how much time and effort this takes and whether the pay-offs are greater than flow rates but also durability as well?

Good questions ruckus , we'll only know in time how the heads will last . Guess work is not on my agender and I am entering new territory with the amount of modifications to the heads . The old heads had been used since 1994 and had done an enormous amount of work . I hope these heads are half as good as the old heads when it comes to life span .

humpty · 18 Sep 2006, 12:30 am

Top stuff Wayne..... I know nothing about TIV's but a mate of mine here in Perth is big on them... I can't wait to hear what he has to say about those heads!!!!.... Hope you make your target... It'll be cool to has a 10 second streeter in this country.... Top stuff!

hypo-vw · 18 Sep 2006, 12:55 am

pic 1- the front 4-stud discs have been removed from the oval and the original 5-stud front drum brakes have been fitted temporarily , so that my BRM's can be fitted . I have ordered a VVD front disc conversion and when it arrives I will fit it in place of the drums .
pic 2- after sitting on the shelf for over 18 months , the 2 front BRM rims are fitted with the 5.60x15 crossply tyres .
pic 3- these are the correct wheel bolts to be used with the BRM's . They still require cutting to length if you are using drum brakes , so that they don't strike any of the brake components inside the drums .

hypo-vw · 18 Sep 2006, 1:04 am

pic 1- with all of the brakes finished and the transmission installed , the oval rests on its wheels once again . Much easier to push around now with the welded diff removed and the ZF LSD fitted .
pic 2- the oval looks much better now with the front BRM's fitted . When the oval is reassembled it will look even more like a standard bug than it did before .
pic 3- I have fitted a stageing brake to the oval to assist me in getting the boost up at the start line . With the help of my son (Dean) the brake system has been adjusted and bled and is finished .

hypo-vw · 18 Sep 2006, 1:10 am

pic 1- Dean sits in the oval and tests the stageing brake operation . We are very happy with the results as it seems to be very efficient , and not too hard to reach .
pic 2- today whilst I did a rebuild on a customers 2litre kombi gearbox , Dean started to apply the heat wrap to the exhaust system .

pete wood · 18 Sep 2006, 7:47 pm

Great work Wayne. Can't wait to see how the oval goes. I'm over the whole capacity debate. The yanks stuff dragcar engines bigger than your bros in their street cars and pretend they are drivable. Great to see some good old aussie give them a run for their money. 👍

Lovely to see the young bloke getting stuck into it. A whole new generation of VW petrolheads is a great thing. I'm pleased to see his got his father's handsome looks. 🙂

hypo-vw · 19 Sep 2006, 1:36 am

pete wood wrote:Lovely to see the young bloke getting stuck into it. A whole new generation of VW petrolheads is a great thing. 🙂

Dean is such a great kid !! Very genuine , not a smart-arse and just loves to work on VW's .
Several weeks ago Dean was at the workshop a few nights in a row till about 11pm , doing his very first top-end engine rebuild for his beetle . At the age of 14 he struggled to get up for school each morning , but it didn't stop him from working those very same evenings to get his engine completed .
Here is a pic of Dean with his much loved 61' ragtop beetle 'Black Betty' , that I gave him as a gift for being such a great mate !!

[ Edited on 18-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

humpty · 19 Sep 2006, 2:15 am

Damn... Dean is one lucky kid!.... Thats a cool looking dub too.... Looks familiar too!.... Hmmmm

VWFREAK · 19 Sep 2006, 10:30 am

Well done Wayne, your still a crazy bugger when it come to your rides. I can't get over how much Dean has grown, it's a good thing he looks like his mother, but with his fathers passion for the old dak dak.

That a sweet ride for your first VW.

Well done guys and good luck for warrick.

pete wood · 19 Sep 2006, 10:59 am

In a world full of crappy parenting. It's good to see a dad working on a good relationship with his son. Keep it up Wayne. Australia needs more dads like you.

BTW, I assume you're teaching him to drive it as well. 😉

Must be time for a motorkhana or two eh?

hypo-vw · 21 Sep 2006, 2:52 am

pete wood wrote:BTW, I assume you're teaching him to drive it as well. 😉

Must be time for a motorkhana or two eh?

Dean has been driving manual since he was 7 years old . When he was 7 , I built him a go-cart that looked like a minature corvette .
I built a full chassis including king pins , fitted a 100cc yamaha engine with 5 speed gearbox , beetle gearstick with sequential gear change , beetle shortened gearshift rod and bush , shortened beetle pedals , golf disc on rear axle with beetle caliper , hydraulic master cylinder , and geared the drive so that it would do approx. 30kph flat out in 5th gear .
He loved it and enjoyed driving it until he grew too big for it , and then he started driving beetles at the age of 10 . He is now so competant that I trust him to drive cars in and out of the worshop area ( including 'Mango Dream' and my twin-cab and the turbo oval )
He is a very sensible kid and I will be getting the sports sedan going again soon so that we can both drive it at Huntley hillclimb , where he will gain a great deal of experience in driving .
I will try to find a couple of pics of the go-cart and post them .

speedster356 · 21 Sep 2006, 7:02 am

How do you feel about adoption?....I'd be a good son and a top brother Wayne:P

humpty · 21 Sep 2006, 10:26 am

speedster356 wrote:How do you feel about adoption?....I'd be a good son and a top brother Wayne:P

LOL!.... The Penrose adoption que starts here...

Adolph · 21 Sep 2006, 8:18 pm

Those heads looks great.

I wish I had them on my NA 2.8 type4, I have got 914 heads with 48 X 38mm valves and porting but no welding on intakes. I know that it is limiting my power at the moment. I will just have to have them welded and get off my lazy but.

Great job

Hermann

P.S. do you still have the old cam that was in the engine?

[ Edited on 21-9-2006 by Adolph ]

xornge666x · 22 Sep 2006, 1:33 pm

pete wood wrote:Great work Wayne. Can't wait to see how the oval goes. I'm over the whole capacity debate. The yanks stuff dragcar engines bigger than your bros in their street cars and pretend they are drivable.

I am about to go to Vegas BugIn where the cars in the street class have to go on a 60mi cruise on the interstate at 65mph to qualify...
should be interesting to see what the real street cars run!

humpty · 23 Sep 2006, 12:46 am

xornge666x wrote:
pete wood wrote:Great work Wayne. Can't wait to see how the oval goes. I'm over the whole capacity debate. The yanks stuff dragcar engines bigger than your bros in their street cars and pretend they are drivable.
I am about to go to Vegas BugIn where the cars in the street class have to go on a 60mi cruise on the interstate at 65mph to qualify...
should be interesting to see what the real street cars run!

Last year Kris Lauffer drive his red cabrio in that event and that car is running 9's now... And there are quite a few other cars i know of that did the same thing.... there are plenty of 10 ssec plus street cars in the US, but most of them only get around 80mile from a tank of gas..... But they are streetable.... nobody said they had to be economical!

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 1:32 am

Adolph wrote:do you still have the old cam that was in the engine?

[ Edited on 21-9-2006 by Adolph ]

Hi Hermann , yes I have kept the cam and matching lifter set from the engine and have packed it away in a safe place .
I do plan on using it somewhere in the near future in my sports sedan .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 2:16 am

Have been putting a hugh effort and lots of hours into the oval this week and progress is looking good .
pic 1- engine case has been welded to allow for 5th headstud modification .
pic 2- the super heavy-duty chromemoly main bearing studs that I had manufactured for the type-4 engine . These studs use the type-1 main bearing nuts . Here they are pictured beside a standard stud .
pic 3- the main bearing holes in both halves of the engine case need to be machined out to accept the larger diameter studs .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 2:26 am

pic 1- due to the use of titanium valves in these heads , special ally/bronze valve seats need to be used . These seats will be a more compatible material to use as they are a little softer than the hard steel seats and tend to look after the titanium valves a lot better . They also have a more compatible heat expansion rate to the aluminum heads . I have purchased a chunk of ally/bronze-1 and had 8 new valve seats machined for the heads .
pic 2- the engine case has been machined , drilled and helicoils fitted in the mount area for the 5th headstuds .
pic 3- a dummy fit-up is performed with the barrels to check the 5th headstuds are located properly .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 2:36 am

pic 1- the valve seats are removed from the cylinder heads so that the heads can be welded around the seat area .
pic 2- the crankshaft has been crack tested / machined / cleaned and then reassembled .
pic 3- a windage tray is fitted to the engine case to reduce the risk of oil serge . This will help keep a mass of oil from splashing all over the crank under acceleration which would result in a drain on the horsepower .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 2:41 am

pic 1- the mounting plate for the porsche alternator stand has to be fitted into the engine case prior to engine assembly .
pic 2- the engine bottom end is being assenbled.
pic 3- type-4 deep sump kit is fitted to the engine .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 2:47 am

pic 1- the bottom end is finished and the porsche alternator mount plate and fan strap has been fitted .
pic 2- one piston and barrel is fitted to check the deck-height . This will assist me in calculating the engines compression ratio .
pic 3- the inlet valve seat area has been rewelded .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 2:56 am

pic 1- the flywheel has been dowelled to the crankshaft to reduce the risk of stress on the flywheel bolts . The flywheel is a modified type-1 chromemoly unit that was modified by FAT Performance in USA with a type-4 centre . It takes the 200mm diameter clutch .
pic 2- the new ally/bronze seats have been fitted to the heads , and now I have to matchport the ports to the seats .
pic 3- more welding has been done to the lower section of the heads to enable me to seal in any inlet port leakage .

[ Edited on 22-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 22-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 3:01 am

pic 1- extensive welding performed to the top of the heads around the inlet port area , to ensure a good seal from the inlet ports .
pic 2- entire exhaust system has been wrapped in heat-wrap tape to keep the heat in the pipes and out of the engine bay area .
pic 3- the new turbo bag to insulate the turbo .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 3:05 am

pic 1- all of the inlet plumbing has been powdercoated in silver .
pic 2- the inlet plumbing has been fitted back into the oval and connected to the intercooler .
pic 3- the turbo and exhaust plumbing has been fitted back into the oval .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 3:10 am

pic 1- a view from under the oval . Looks pretty good with the engine pipes wrapped and the transmission / mountings detail .
pic 2- the heads have now been matchported to the valve seats , so the heads can be sent to Southern Engine Reconditioning to have the valve guides reamed to suit the chev valves and also machine the valve seats .

dangerous · 23 Sep 2006, 8:38 am

Looking good Wayne.

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 9:15 am

pic 1- I have decided to replace the conrod bolts with a higher grade bolt that is manufactured by ARP performance products .
pic 2- Dean replaces all the conrod bolts for me and retensions the rod bolts as per the stretch-bolt instructions .
pic 3- I manufacture new header pipes to exit the exhaust ports as the old pipes had dents knocked into them to clear the pushrod tubes . This time the pushrod tubes will be modified to clear the exhaust tubes as I didn't go to all this effort to have the exhaust restricted as it exits the cylinder heads . I have measured the diameter of the old pipes at the narrowest point and they are 25% smaller than the new pipes . Should make a huge difference .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 9:26 am

pic 1- the valve seats have been refaced , the guides machined for the 11/32" chev valve stems and the heads are placed on the milling machine for the last time to reface the chambers . Through the welding process the chambers distorted .012" and had to be machined to a true parallel surface .
pic 2- Devcon aluminum putty is applied around all of the welding to ensure that there are no air leaks . The small holes inside the inlet ports are also filled with Devcon and machined back when dried .
pic 3- engine parts are all washed up and ready to assemble .

reub · 23 Sep 2006, 10:34 am

That's some serious work you've put in Wayne. Hope it all pays off for you.
Very impressed...and a little excited by it :P

nbturbo · 23 Sep 2006, 11:36 am

Totally agree-as they say in the Classics-a picture is worth a thousand words-enough said.

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 4:55 pm

reub-revhead wrote:That's some serious work you've put in Wayne. Hope it all pays off for you.
Very impressed...and a little excited by it :P

I am pleased to hear that you may be a little excited . I am .
The idea of sharing each and every step with you is not to show off or be a smart-arse . I genuinely would like to share these experiences with AVD readers . I am entering new territory myself and this may also encourage others to do the same .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2006, 5:09 pm

pic 1- the cylinder heads are complete and assembled . Chambers are CC'd and measure 63cc . With a 2mm deckheight the engine compression ratio is calculated at 10:1 . A little higher than I had first planned but I think this will work nice with 14psi boost . The Berg dual valve springs tested at 130lbs @ the seat installed with a 0.060" shim at the base , and 295lbs @ .510" lift .
pic 2- the 50mm intakes and 41mm exhausts only just fit with less than a millimeter between them .
pic 3- due to the design of the piston that I am using , the pistons have to be assembled onto the conrods prior to fitting any of the piston rings . The rings are machined and fitted to the barrels to ensure correct end gap ( approx. 0.020") and then the rings are fitted to the pistons . The reason for this is the gudgeon pin is under the oil ring and cant be fitted with the oil ring in place . A ring compressor is then used to clamp the rings so that they can be fitted into the barrels .

hypo-vw · 24 Sep 2006, 12:21 am

pic 1- the barrels are all fitted to the pistons and ready to bolt on the cylinder heads .
pic 2- the cylinder heads are fitted and tensioned .
pic 3- Torco camlube is applied to the scat heavy duty camfollowers prior to assembly . The scat camfollowers have a 0.024" oiling hole in the centre of the contact face to assist with cam-lobe lubrication .

hypo-vw · 24 Sep 2006, 12:30 am

pic 1- this pic shows how the pushrod tubes have been modified to clear the exhaust header pipes .
pic 2- as the oval is a street registed and driven car , I dont need any oil leaks to create rego problems . So I have applied a generous coating of white sikaflex 252 to all of the areas on the engine case that have been welded on . This should reduce the risk of oil leakage from any pourous areas .
pic 3- the fan housing now needs to be trimmed around the inlet port areas as it no longer fits .

hypo-vw · 24 Sep 2006, 12:36 am

pic 1- with the engine finished , rocker geometry sorted and tappets adjusted , the engine is sealed by fitting and wiring the rocker covers , then the fan housing and 911 Porsche cooling fan is fitted .
pic 2- the inlet manifolds are marked and now need to be match-ported to gain maximum efficiency of the induction system .
pic 3- I use new Berg IDA gaskets between the throttle bodies and the inlet manifolds.

hypo-vw · 24 Sep 2006, 12:43 am

pic 1- the inlet manifold gaskets have to be hand-cut to match the modified ports .
pic 2- the inlet manifolds are match-ported and are ready to bolt on .
pic 3- after spending many hours on the engine today , it is finally finished . The engine is so much shorter now with the higher compression ratio that the crossover pipe between the 2 plenims and the throttle linkage had to be shortened by 10mm .

hypo-vw · 24 Sep 2006, 12:46 am

the engine is fitted back into the oval . All of the hoses and plumbing now need to be connected , and I might fire it up tomorrow night .
It is booked in on the dyno on tuesday morning .

humpty · 24 Sep 2006, 12:59 am

Damn Wayne.... you (and Dean!) been getting busy!.... Are you gonna get to run it before the 'weekender' at Craigs?

hypo-vw · 24 Sep 2006, 1:09 am

humpty wrote:Damn Wayne.... you (and Dean!) been getting busy!.... Are you gonna get to run it before the 'weekender' at Craigs?

I will run it on the dyno on tuesday morning and then just a quick squirt around the block ( sensibly ) before taking it to Warrick .
Warrick will be its first real test .... even if it is just 1/8 mile , it will still give me an idea of how it will go .
I managed to cover all of the modifications that I had previously mentioned , except one ! Didn't fit the larger injectors just yet , so the boost will stay at 14psi for Warrick . I wont run the oval on the 1/4 until they are fitted and the engine retuned with the boost screwed up .
Can't wait !! 7 more sleeps ......... just any sleep will do me !!

[ Edited on 23-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

reub · 24 Sep 2006, 10:59 am

Engine porn....Good luck with it all. Was considering flying down for the weekend but unfortunatey the money is better spend on my new engine for the 58.

Do you know if Rod got his fired and on the dyno?

hypo-vw · 24 Sep 2006, 4:08 pm

reub-revhead wrote:Do you know if Rod got his fired and on the dyno?

Our father (Allan ) came to my shop and gave me a hand to fit the barrels over the pistons on friday afternoon . When he was there he was telling me that Rods car would not fire-up and that the computer was not working and may have been spiked .
Rod apparently drove to Sydney on friday to get the computer repaired , but from what dad tells me , he had to purchase other unit . He hasn't made the dyno yet but I'm sure that he will in the next couple of days .
Hope all goes well with it , as the event wouldn't be the same without him and his car there .

fullnoise · 24 Sep 2006, 4:58 pm

Hi Wayne,

I don't know how you managed to jam all that in the back of an oval. Amazing work.

Thanks for sharing the photos. I can't wait to see it fly in Warwick.

CYA CT

Boostn · 24 Sep 2006, 6:16 pm

3 generations all working on the same VW
how cool Wayne

the oval is looking good!

hypo-vw · 25 Sep 2006, 12:56 am

well I spent another 4 hours on the oval this evening and I still didn't get to fire it up . I have got about an hours work and double checking things before I fire it tomorrow . Her are some more pics from tonight .
pic 1- the old header pipes are marked where I will cut them off and weld them to the new tubes .
As previously mentioned , the old pipes were quite restrictive as they were dented to clear the pushrod tubes . This is very easy to see in this pic , and you can understand why I wanted to change them , especially after going to so much effort on head design and flow .
pic 2- here I am cutting the exhaust tubes .
pic 3- this pic shows the pipes welded back together and attached to the rest of the exhaust system .

hypo-vw · 25 Sep 2006, 1:01 am

pic 1- the muffler and the rear engine support bar are both bolted to the engine . The muffler is connected to the pipework prior to welding the header pipes to ensure that all will line up when fitted .
pis 2&3- view of the rear of the oval with entire exhaust system fitted and all plumbing / wiring connected . Nearly ready to fire-up .

pete wood · 25 Sep 2006, 12:41 pm

Dude that is awesome.:thumb

When do you sleep?

reub · 25 Sep 2006, 8:30 pm

VOLKSPORN! :thumb

Dasdubber · 25 Sep 2006, 9:06 pm

Wow - that is certainly a lot of work! Thanks for sharing it with us.....I am gobsmacked! I'd love to have a N/A version of that engine some day.....would be loads of fun I am sure! (I think I'd soil myself if I drove that sort of combo with the extra power of a turbo) :thumb

hypo-vw · 25 Sep 2006, 10:52 pm

pic 1- the engine pipes are wrapped in the heat wrap after welding them last night . The exhaust system is entirely finished .
The engine has been fired and sounds awsome . Not as noisy as it use to be and for those who will see it run at Warrick , you will be surely surprised how quiet and quick the oval is .
pics 2&3- here I am refitting the rear apron and guards to the oval .

hypo-vw · 25 Sep 2006, 11:11 pm

pic 1- the oval has no shortage of attention from staff and mates . Here our first year apprentice Ben ( near right front guard ) his brother Kane ( left front guard ) and my good mate Chris ( rear of oval ) , all lend a hand and give the oval a wash and detail .

Shortley after the oval was washed , I took my mate Chris for a test drive in the oval . I drove up and down our street slowly to warm up the transmission and then gave the oval a few quick squirts on 7 psi boost . It responded extremely well and Chris was impressed .
I then flicked the dual stage boost controller to 14psi and all hell broke loose . I honestly couldn't keep my foot into it as the oval was turning the tyres easily in 3rd gear and I was useing much more of the road than I should have been and Chris was shocked .
The modifications that I have done have obviously made a huge improvement even without added boost .
I then drove the oval back into the shop and hoist lifted it for an inspection , and found the engine and transmission to be completely free from oil leaks .
The oval goes to the dyno tomorrow for a last check over before heading off to Warrick .

My mate Chris , still has not stopped smileing and just can't believe that the oval is powered by a 4 cylinder Volkswagen engine . He wants one for his Formula Vee race car . "I dont think so Chris"
pics 2&3- the oval is finished and looks like a sedate little callooker again .

SEE YA ALL AT WARRICK GUYS !!

reub · 25 Sep 2006, 11:45 pm

Great to hear how it went.

Would love to see video footage of it in action.

Have footage of you in the blue car which is cool too.

Shame I'm not going to be at Warrick to witness the cool lineup, including this wicked 54.

hypo-vw · 25 Sep 2006, 11:57 pm

reub-revhead wrote:Would love to see video footage of it in action.

I have borrowed a digital video camera to take to Warrick and my son ( Dean ) will be taking a heap of footage so that we can put together a short movie . If it turns out OK , will let you know .

reub · 26 Sep 2006, 12:17 am

hypo-vw wrote:I have borrowed a digital video camera to take to Warrick and my son ( Dean ) will be taking a heap of footage so that we can put together a short movie . If it turns out OK , will let you know .

Cheers Wayne. Look forward to it.
I'll be posting video footage of VWRX at the drags soon to share as well....

boof2332 · 26 Sep 2006, 1:20 am

Crazy looks and crazy performance.. what are your airfuel ratios under boost...lots of contention between running a bit rich to compensate for the possibility of lean out under high boost..of course crisp throttle responce sometimes then lost.

What other supports did you use for rear apron?, I have one the same, although pondering attatchment and support for bumpers.

Car looks awesome.

matt

dangerous · 26 Sep 2006, 8:40 am

Looks great Wayne,
look forward to catching up.

hypo-vw · 26 Sep 2006, 9:49 pm

well today the oval hit the dyno at SOUTH COAST ROTARY PERFORMANCE & DYNO-TUNE . Many thanks to Kevin for his expertise in Microtec engine management systems and getting the tune on the oval to a massive 320.6 bhp @ 5600rpm on 14psi boost .
This far exceeded my expectations , as I thought that I would have to put more boost in , to get this sort of power . Kevin was also able to find additional fuel and had to lean the engine off to an air/fuel ratio of 11.8:1 on full throttle . In doing this he explored the map in my ECU and found that I have enough fuel in it to run 18psi boost without changing injectors .
We tried to screw the boost up a little but the wastegate is currently fitted with a spring that would not allow additional boost . So I have decided to leave the boost at 14psi for Warrick , because I honestly feel that I am going to have enough traction problems with the oval running 320 @ the wheels on M&H street tyres .

pic 1- the oval sits in the rollers at SOUTH COAST ROTARY PERFORMANCE AND DYNO-TUNE
pic 2- Kevins laptop and air/fuel meter plugged into the oval
pic 3- the heat got too much for this strap . The exhaust is wrapped in heat-wrap , was then covered in a heat insulated blanket and then strapped . The exhaust heat not only melted the strap but also melted a hole in the heat blanket . To make things worse , we melted 3 straps this morning and the oval nearly lept out of the rollers .SCARY STUFF !!

hypo-vw · 26 Sep 2006, 9:50 pm

pete wood wrote:When do you sleep?

tonight and tomorrow night , then off to Warrick .

pyr0 · 26 Sep 2006, 10:06 pm

thats freakin awesome 😵‍💫

hellbugged · 26 Sep 2006, 10:18 pm

Awesome stuff Wayne

looking forward to watching you run at Warrick

Craig Torrens · 26 Sep 2006, 10:30 pm

That's bloody fantastic Wayne.........CONGRATS.

1916 · 27 Sep 2006, 3:20 am

thats awseome....

if you do not already have a cage i get the feeling you will NEED one after your trip to the dragstrip..as if you hit 10's its a requirement or you cant come back right?

also, did you consider getting some ahh..somewhat supportive seats?

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2006, 7:55 am

1916 wrote:thats awseome....

if you do not already have a cage i get the feeling you will NEED one after your trip to the dragstrip..as if you hit 10's its a requirement or you cant come back right?

also, did you consider getting some ahh..somewhat supportive seats?

Yeh you are right . I am only going to get 1 crack at a run down the 1/4 strip in the 10's with the oval before they send me home to get a cage , seat , harness , and full tech inspection .
I don't have any plans to do this to the oval as it is a street car and should be used as such .Only have to put it back on Premium ULP to run it on the street , everything else complies with NSW RTA .
And what do you mean supportive seats ? Under acceleration the original lowback uprights squeeze into my ribs as I am passing through the back of the seat , and they hold me in tight !! Only need better runners on the floor and a stronger steering wheel to hang on . LOL :P

063bug · 27 Sep 2006, 8:29 am

Holy S#!t.... those figures are awesome.... looking forward to seeing your car on the weekend

dangerous · 27 Sep 2006, 9:28 am

That's great Wayne!

Is that the same Dyno as last time?..thats over 100hp better!

pete wood · 27 Sep 2006, 9:43 am

only 14psi and 320hp!!! that's amazing! :duh
What sort of torque is it producing?

VWFREAK · 27 Sep 2006, 10:03 am

Your the man Wayne, well done mate. I can't wait to hear how she's went.

Good Luck

Peter

humpty · 27 Sep 2006, 10:43 am

Top stuff WP.... You've out done yourself..... Hope to see some top video of this puppy doing its thing.... Just get nice and close Dean..... We want to see Wayne's eyes light up when he drops the hammer!

nbturbo · 27 Sep 2006, 5:54 pm

Wayne-Have got a massive exhaust heat problem with the Type4 in my Oval-after about 5 minutes running,the rear panel gets that hot,you cannot touch it and I am surprised it hasn't burnt the paint.I found this stuff by accident-it's about 25mm thick and is used here at the Steel Works for insulation somewhere in the system. Bloke I got it from lit an oxy cutting torch and held it close to one side and had his hand on the other-absolutely no heat transfer.I made a thin stainless shield to sit about 15mm off the muffler and squeezed this stuff in between then tacked the shield.Rear panel is now stone cold behind the muffler-but still some heat from the pipes going in-will ju
[/URL] [/img]st make a small deflector for each side.

[ Edited on 27-9-2006 by nbturbo ]

speedster356 · 27 Sep 2006, 7:05 pm

That looks like Fiberfrax. That'll do it.....I've used it as thin as 6mm with great results.

[ Edited on 27-9-2006 by speedster356 ]

Flintstones · 27 Sep 2006, 8:26 pm

That's sensational Wayne.👍

Can you post the dyno sheet? I'm sure we'd all love to see the graph!!

Cheers

1916 · 27 Sep 2006, 8:42 pm

what fuel are you running then wayne? not pump fuel for that power?

humpty · 27 Sep 2006, 9:10 pm

nbturbo wrote:Wayne-Have got a massive exhaust heat problem with the Type4 in my Oval-after about 5 minutes running,the rear panel gets that hot,you cannot touch it and I am surprised it hasn't burnt the paint.I found this stuff by accident-it's about 25mm thick and is used here at the Steel Works for insulation somewhere in the system. Bloke I got it from lit an oxy cutting torch and held it close to one side and had his hand on the other-absolutely no heat transfer.I made a thin stainless shield to sit about 15mm off the muffler and squeezed this stuff in between then tacked the shield.Rear panel is now stone cold behind the muffler-but still some heat from the pipes going in-will ju
[/URL] [/img]st make a small deflector for each side.

[ Edited on 27-9-2006 by nbturbo ]

speedster356 wrote:That looks like Fiberfrax. That'll do it.....I've used it as thin as 6mm with great results.

[ Edited on 27-9-2006 by speedster356 ]

Thats Fibrefrax for sure... I used to build temporary commercial kilns years ago for heat treatment and thats the gear we used for lining the kiln.... Great stuff.... Just wear gloves and resporator when you handle that stuff....

1916 · 27 Sep 2006, 11:18 pm

what gearbox do you run wayne?

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2006, 11:36 pm

boof2332 wrote:What other supports did you use for rear apron?, I have one the same, although pondering attatchment and support for bumpers.

No additional supports were manufactured for the rear apron , just cut in a 'Z' pattern and strengthening plates at cut section only .
My bumper brackets are aluminum and the bumpers are fibreglass , so they look original but very lite .

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2006, 11:41 pm

dangerous wrote:That's great Wayne!

Is that the same Dyno as last time?..thats over 100hp better!

Thanks Dave , the dyno is the same brand but at a different workshop . The first time that I had it dynoed it was at SOUTH COAST 4WD as Kevins dyno was out of action . This time it was at SOUTH COAST ROTARY PERFORMANCE AND DYNO-TUNE , where I have always had my cars dynoed .
See ya in a couple of days Dave .

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2006, 11:44 pm

pete wood wrote:only 14psi and 320hp!!! that's amazing! :duh
What sort of torque is it producing?

When the engine was dynoed last time it produced 900lbs of tractive effort and this time a massive 1260lbs .

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2006, 11:48 pm

Flintstones wrote:That's sensational Wayne.👍

Can you post the dyno sheet? I'm sure we'd all love to see the graph!!

Cheers

after Warrick I will tell my computer guy to reinstall my scanner programme after it was left out during the last update and repairs . Will post dyno sheet ASAP and as you will see the power was still sky-rocketing when Kevin backed off .The more that he revs the engine , the more power it makes .

[ Edited on 27-9-06 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2006, 11:50 pm

1916 wrote:what fuel are you running then wayne? not pump fuel for that power?

The oval is running c-16 racing fuel / 117 octane rating .

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2006, 11:58 pm

1916 wrote:what gearbox do you run wayne?

I run a swing axle transmission with -
rhino housing
3.88 ring and pinion
Berg h/duty pinion bearing retainer
Albins gear sets with splined hubs 4.11/2.21/1.44/1.04
steel shift forks
ZF limited slip diff
H/duty alloy side plates
Berg chromemoly axles
Berg side plate strengtheners
Berg style solid front mounting
solid rear mounting with bellhousing strap

should be a pretty tough box , and it will need to be !!

[ Edited on 20-12-06 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 2-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

1916 · 28 Sep 2006, 1:28 am

c16 race fuel!!!..geeez PUMP THAT BOOST UP. HAHAH

yeah one would hope so wayne. your engine is a monster.

pete wood · 29 Sep 2006, 6:25 pm

hypo-vw wrote:
pete wood wrote:only 14psi and 320hp!!! that's amazing! :duh
What sort of torque is it producing?
When the engine was dynoed last time it produced 900lbs of tractive effort and this time a massive 1260lbs .

1200 and freakin 60!!! that's monster! 😵‍💫

No wonder people blow gearboxes to bits...:o

hypo-vw · 4 Oct 2006, 8:26 am

here is the dyno sheet for the turbo oval from last tuesday . As you can clearly see , the oval made an incredible amount of usable horsepower and was still making power when Kevin got off the throttle at 320.6bhp@5600rpm .
ran the oval for the first time on saturday at Warrick , and it bloody flys .
first run on the 1/8 mile was 7.1@102mph , with a very steady take off . The 60 foot time was 1.9secs , but the oval normally runs 1.7 secs . So 6's are very possible .
second run was 7.5@99mph and I missed 3rd gear . checked the tacho recall when I got back to the pits and it showed 8200rpm .
third run did a nice strong burnout , but broke the crownwheel & pinion from the start line .
CANT WAIT TO RUN IT ON THE QUARTER !!

[ Edited on 3-10-06 by hypo-vw ]

pete wood · 4 Oct 2006, 8:41 am

awesome.

sorry wayne, seems I was a bit of a prophet there. what's happening to strengthen the gearbox now?

HotRodMatt · 4 Oct 2006, 3:34 pm

Sacrifice clutches instead of crown wheels.

Cranky has to play clutch even with a tuff box and I guess you will have to aswell.

Dasdubber · 23 Oct 2006, 11:40 pm

G'day Wayne - how did the tranny repairs go after warwick? Is the oval back in action yet?

I was disappointed I didn't get to see it run more at warwick (I was sitting in the staging lanes and missed every run)...ah well, can't wait to see it run next time!

By the way, did you end up narrowing the ally beam 4 inches in the end - if so were you able to retain the shock towers in some way?

Cheers
Alan

hypo-vw · 23 Oct 2006, 11:45 pm

Originally posted by pete wood[ what's happening to strengthen the gearbox now?

to strengthen the box now I have got my brother Rod to order for me a new 9310 chromemoly crownwheel & pinion set from US in 3.44 ratio .
I have also ordered a new 1st and 2nd gear combination of 3.3 / 2.08 to replace the 4.11 / 2.21
This will make 1st gear a lot more usable as with the present combination the oval tends to jump off the line , shift light flashes at 7100rpm and I have to grab 2nd gear in about 25 feet . When this happens I feel that the engine revs quickly but doesn't get boost up immediately .
I watched a lot of other cars on the drag day and they seem to be going a lot further than I am in 1st gear .
With the taller 1st gear I am sure that the engine will get on boost better as it will be under more load and this will bring my 60 foot times down .
Then with the taller diff ratio I have calculated that the oval will be doing 110mph in 3rd gear @ 7100rpm and then 138mph in 4th gear @ 6500rpm .
When the crownwheel & pinion arrives from Rod , I will strip the oval and post pics of the transmission carnage .

[ Edited on 23-10-06 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 23 Oct 2006, 11:53 pm

Dasdubber wrote:did you end up narrowing the ally beam 4 inches in the end

Cheers
Alan

Hi Alan , I really didn't get time before I went to Warrick to narrow the front beam , so I removed the front disc brakes and put the brakes back to stock so that I could fit my BRM's on the front .
I was surprised at how well the oval stopped on 4-wheel drum brakes from 102mph . I think I may have to do a brake upgrade though before running on the quarter .

hypo-vw · 11 Nov 2006, 11:19 pm

Well I have had a slight setback . Brother Rods' order arrived from US on Friday and there were no ring and pinion sets packaged in the order .
I have made enquiries through several sources and I am waiting for a response .
The 3.3/2.08 1st/2nd gear set has arrived . Just waiting on the ring and pinion .

dangerous · 12 Nov 2006, 8:36 am

hypo-vw wrote:The 3.3/2.08 1st/2nd gear set has arrived .

Did you go for Albins 002 style or Berg 113 key style Wayne?

Dasdubber · 12 Nov 2006, 11:07 pm

I love this thread (its inspiration for my next oval project!)....do you anticipate any problems with the heads cracking between the inlet/exhaust valves since there is such little material there?

hypo-vw · 12 Nov 2006, 11:14 pm

dangerous wrote:Did you go for Albins 002 style or Berg 113 key style Wayne?

Hi Dave , I went for the albins 002 style as this is the same as I am currently using in this tranny . I find them much stronger with the splined gear to hub on 3rd and 4th gears .

hypo-vw · 12 Nov 2006, 11:22 pm

Dasdubber wrote:do you anticipate any problems with the heads cracking between the inlet/exhaust valves since there is such little material there?

I dont antisipate any cracking between the valves as cracking is normally caused by excessive heat . By tuning the engine correctly and making sure the fuel mixtures are perfect ( and those of you who saw the oval run at Warrick can testify to the crispness of the throttle response ) , the engine should produce good horsepower reliably without cracking the heads .
The amount of material between the valves is no less now than with the old heads , as I have made the new ally-bronze seats much thinner for better flow .

[ Edited on 12-11-06 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 13 Dec 2006, 10:24 pm

Well after brother Rods' order arrived from US without the parts that I had ordered and chasing all over for over a month , the new 3.44 ring and pinion has finally arrived .
I managed to locate a couple in US and have them shipped over quickly .
Sometime over the next couple of weeks , I will stip down the oval and fit the new ring & pinion and also the new 1st / 2nd gear set .

old ratios...............................new ratios
4.11........................................3.33
2.21....................................... 2.08
1.43........................................1.43
1.04........................................1.04
3.88 r&p..................................3.44 r&p

130mph@7500rpm...................140mph@6600rpm

[ Edited on 13-12-06 by hypo-vw ]

dangerous · 14 Dec 2006, 6:54 am

Hi Wayne,
can you tell us the tooth count on those gears?

eg on first : 30/9 etc

For all four gears.

Thanks, DB.

Graeme · 20 Dec 2006, 4:43 pm

Hi Wayne,
Sorry to crash your site, bloody awsome car by the way, but i was wondering if you (or anyone on this forum) knows where to locate some half decent type 4 heads for a motor i am building up.
so far it looks like: 103x82, h-beam chevy rods, web 86b/86c cam, cb throttle bodies, msd, haltec computer etc.. only the heads i was going to build up are not a very good base.. I was thinking around the 38x48 ported/polished route.. anyone know where i can lay my hands on anything?

hypo-vw · 20 Dec 2006, 9:30 pm

Graeme wrote:I was thinking around the 38x48 ported/polished route.. anyone know where i can lay my hands on anything?

Hi Graeme , give me a call during business hours at my shop on 02-42725844 . I might have just what you need ....or even do a custom set for you . I have just finished a set of what you have described for a 77 bay window bus 2-litre and it friggen flys......

hypo-vw · 20 Dec 2006, 10:29 pm

Today the new larger 759cc injectors arrived and I feel more boost coming on......... The old injectors were 550cc .
I am now feeling like I am about to take a walk across egg-shells with cast-iron boots . There is a fine line between maximum horsepower and major blow-up !! I wonder just where that is ?

Boostn · 28 Dec 2006, 12:02 am

Hey Wayne,

how is it all going?
looking good for the 13th?

hypo-vw · 30 Dec 2006, 12:14 am

Boostn wrote:Hey Wayne,

how is it all going?
looking good for the 13th?

Hi Nick , I will be ready for the 13th at Heathcote .
I have been busy the last couple of days fitting the air-conditioning components to the type-3 project and only got a start on the oval late this afternoon .
I managed to get the engine out of the oval and started on the trans removal .
Below is a pic of what came out of the transmission drain plug hole .......... looks pretty impressive eh !!

hypo-vw · 1 Jan 2007, 5:50 pm

well I managed this afternoon to get to my workshop to remove the transmission from the oval and then strip it down to check the 'WARRICK CARNAGE' .

pic-1 the transmission is once again removed from the oval and fitted to the engine stand .

pic-2 the damage to the ring & pinion may be worse than first thought as quite a lot more debries falls out of the drain plug hole , including whole teeth .

pic-3 the axles and tubes have been removed , the LSD is removed from the transmission to find considerable damage to the ring .

hypo-vw · 1 Jan 2007, 5:57 pm

pic-4 a large quantity of teeth are broken or even missing from the ring .

pic-5 not a pretty sight inside the rhino housing . Massive amounts of teeth and debries . Fortunately no damage to main housing or side plates .

pic-6 the head on the pinion doesn't look any better than the condition of the ring . It also has whole teeth missing . I think I had better call the dentist for this tranny .

hypo-vw · 1 Jan 2007, 6:00 pm

pic-7 with the transmission completely stripped down , the ring & pinion are washed and dried , ready for the trophy cabinet . ( As they are useless for anything else )

Reassembly will start tomorrow with the new 3.44 ring & pinion and the taller 1st & 2nd gear sets .

No other damage was found in the transmission , other than a few minor markings on the ZF LSD housing .

[ Edited on 1-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

dangerous · 1 Jan 2007, 6:09 pm

Hi Wayne,
Can you do a tooth count on your new (1 through 4) gear sets for me?
I am interested to get an idea on how course the teeth are.
Thanks DB.

hypo-vw · 2 Jan 2007, 6:06 pm

dangerous wrote:Hi Wayne,
Can you do a tooth count on your new (1 through 4) gear sets for me?
I am interested to get an idea on how course the teeth are.
Thanks DB.

Hi Dave , here are the tooth counts for you .
1st gear 9/30 = 3.33
2nd gear 13/27 = 2.08
3rd gear 18/26 = 1.44
4th gear 25/26 = 1.04
R&P 9/31 = 3.44

hypo-vw · 2 Jan 2007, 6:22 pm

pic-9 the new ring is fitted to the ZF LSD hemisphere and the bolts are torqued down .

pic-10 the pinion is assembled with all of the gears and fitted to the rhino housing so that the ring and pinion can be set-up properly

pic-11 the ring assembly is fitted to the transmission to check the backlash . I had to adjust the shimming on the ring and pinion 8 times before I was happy with the results .

[ Edited on 2-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 2-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 2 Jan 2007, 6:31 pm

pics-12 & 13 show the new pinion fitted to the transmission . Note how large the pinion head diameter is to a stock 3.88
Bearing blue has been applied to the teeth of the ring and pinion to check the meshing of the teeth .

[ Edited on 2-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

hypo-vw · 2 Jan 2007, 6:33 pm

pics -14 & 15 show the complete gear carrier assembly assembled and the selectors have been adjusted , ready to fit back into the rhino housing .

hypo-vw · 2 Jan 2007, 6:37 pm

Hey Nick , how is your bug going ? are you coming to Heathcote for the summer slam ?

hypo-vw · 3 Jan 2007, 11:08 pm

pic-16 the transmission is completed and fitted back into the oval once again .

pic-17 after much consideration and advise from others in the know , I have decided to remove the 3-puk clutch disc from the oval and replace it with a 4-puk that I purchased from brother Rod . This should extend transmission life drematically .
I had 2 choices of discs . The cinter-iron disc or the 4-puk . I hope I have made the right choice , but the deciding factor for me was the disc weight .
The cinter-iron disc weighed 1.25kg and the Kennedy race 4-puk weighed 750gms . The lighter disc will not only allow the engine to rev quicker , but the choice for me was made due to the quicker gear changes that can be achieved with the lighter disc .
With the Kennedy stage-4 3000lb ductile pressure plate that I am using , I don't suspect any clutch slip .

hypo-vw · 3 Jan 2007, 11:15 pm

pic-18 check out the heat discolouration on the clutch and pressure plate that I removed from the oval . That 3-puk disc really doesn't like to slip , especially on that last 7000rpm launch that munched the ring & pinion .

pic-19 the engine was installed back into the oval late this afernoon . Tomorrow morning I will go to the shop early to connect all of the plumbing and fit the rear of the body back on , before all the crazy kids turn up at home for my daughters birthday party around lunch time .

reub · 4 Jan 2007, 12:13 am

Spewin I didn't get a chance to drop in yesterday to say hi Wayne....ran out of time.

Ah well, always next time...

hypo-vw · 9 Jan 2007, 10:34 pm

Well the oval is all back together .
The transmission is working well .
The clutch is hooking up smoothly .
The larger 759cc injectors have been fitted and I had to pull 15% of fuel of the microtec map just to make it run smoothly .
The wastegate spring has been changed from the 7psi to the 14psi so that the boost setting now on low boost is 14psi and the high boost setting can be adjusted anywhere up to 28psi .
I have test driven the oval and it runs really straight !!
When I first test drove the oval I thought that I was suffering massive clutch slippage from a standing start and felt that the clutch was hooking up at the top of 1st gear (8200rpm) and no slippage was detected after that through any other gears or gear changes , but this wasn't the case . With around 320bhp on low boost , the oval is wheelspining and leaving 2 dark black lines up the bitumen around 30ft long . That new 3.33 1st gear with the 3.44 ring & pinion certianly is much taller than my previous gearing .
The oval goes onto the dyno at SOUTH COAST ROTARY PERFORMANCE AND DYNO-TUNE on thursday morning . I can't wait and will post info on the outcome .......... I wonder how close to 400bhp at the rear wheels we can go ?

Dasdubber · 10 Jan 2007, 8:42 am

Hats off to you wayne for getting those numbers - I look forward to seeing the outcome of the dyno session!

hypo-vw · 11 Jan 2007, 10:37 pm

Today I had the oval at SOUTH COAST ROTARY for the dyno tune session and all went well .
We didn't get too much more horsepower as we up the boost to 19psi but the torque figures once again skyrocketed .
We did try to put more boost into the oval but we think that we may have a minor problem with the exhaust pressure forcing the wastegate open , still not sure though as we will have to look into it later .
The horsepower reading on low boost (14psi) came in at 298bhp . This is down quite a bit from the last dyno session at 14psi , but this I expected as I have gone much taller in diff ratio which alters the loss between engine horsepower and rear wheel horsepower .
The horsepower reading on high boost (19psi) came in at a very healthy 335bhp with a massive 1450lbs of tractive effort in torque . The torque reading is up by 200lbs from 1250lbs at the last dyno session .
The oval is on the trailer and I leave for Heathcote in Victoria tomorrow morning early . Hope to see a few Veedubbers from down south attend the meet , and hope we get a few entered also .

[ Edited on 11-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

reub · 11 Jan 2007, 10:46 pm

Look forward to hearing how it all goes for your Wayne.

Good luck with it all.

Would love to see some video footage....please...

humpty · 11 Jan 2007, 10:52 pm

Damn Wayne.... Impressive numbers for sure.... The Shoptalk felas are gonna lose the plot!... Best of luck at Heathcote.... Nick has been very quiet of late.... Do you know if he's gonna make it there?.... Be good to see you guys run together.....

2443TT · 11 Jan 2007, 11:16 pm

Care to divulge a little tuning info?

I'd be interested to know what ignition advance your running at 19lb boost and what the current compression ratio is. Your not using an intercooler either are you? Also, what fuel was that run on?

Granted a vw engine is not an import engine, but the last SR20DET i tuned running 20lb made 325rwhp using 550cc injectors at 43psi static fuel pressure, with 30 degree air temps and 11.8:1 AFR. I'm guessing your running your fuel a lot fatter than that if you'd maxed out the 550 earlier and had to step up to 760's.

The ignition advance was 18 degrees on the SR20. I'm guessing your running around the 15 degree mark if your using 98 octane fuel?

Cheers,

Spellbound · 12 Jan 2007, 8:58 am

That Bug is AWESOME Wayne. You must be stoked with the performance figures so far. Good luck down at Heathcote...will be following closely to see what sort of numbers you come back with.

Flintstones · 12 Jan 2007, 6:50 pm

Awesome numbers there Wayne

Bring on the 10's :thumb

Cheers

VWFREAK · 12 Jan 2007, 10:03 pm

You get Crazier by the day Wayne, I don't know how you find the time and Lisa lets you get away with it.

Talk soon

Peter

hypo-vw · 15 Jan 2007, 12:37 am

First and most importantly I must thank my crew for all the support and assistance with the oval . My father , Allan . My son , Dean . My good mate , Chris Bolton . Kevin @ South Coast Rotary . Without the help from these guys on the weekend , the oval may have been back on the trailer after the first run and they also did some fine video footage which we will edit and post for you to enjoy .
Well , what an eventful weekend we had . Left on Friday morning for Heathcote in Victoria for the Sport Compact Series round 2 / Summer Slam . Had a great trip down there with the only issue being the exhaust system on dads Toyota Lexcen decided to break open after 170,000ks .
We arrived at Bendigo and stayed the night at a beautiful little motel at had a gorgeous steak at the pub 2 doors away for dinner .
Up bright and early saturday morning and down to the local exhaust shop to have the system changed on dads car . I couldn't believe it , we unhooked the trailer to put the Lexcen into the exhaust shop and 11 minutes later the exhaust fitter drove the lexcen back out complete with new centre and rear mufflers . What great service we received .
It was into the town centre for breakfast and then out to the track . Heathcote dragway was only 25ks / 15mins out of town .
Unloaded the oval at the track and had it scrutineered , then all the final checks before racing .

1st run - 1.89 60 foot
7.72 660 foot @ 96.82mph
12.68 ET @ 84mph (19psi boost)

The oval left the line with heaps of wheel spin in both 1st and 2nd gears . The engine misfired and backfired all the way down the strip . I couldn't believe that it was running so bad after being on the dyno just 2 days earlier .
There was a lot of harsh noises in the oval when shifting into 4th gear and I backed out of it . When I slowed down the engine was rattling heavily . I managed to crawl back to the pits to check the noises .
Number 3 cylinder inlet valve had broken a lashcap and the valve had excessive clearance . I was unable to get another lashcap so the decision was made to turn the tappet screw in till we had Zero clearance . I knew that this was going to completely wreck the titanium valve .

2nd run- 1.61 60 foot
6.91 660 foot @ 98.9mph
11.09 ET @ 108.02mph (19psi boost)

The oval left the line better but the engine still misfired all the way down the strip and the harsh banging noises was still in the car when shifting into 4th gear , so I once again backed out of it .
I went back to the pits and couldn't find anything wrong with the oval . So I decided to run it again to try to diagnose the problem . Nick (boostn) helped out with some trackside advise and thought that the engine was running too rich .

3rd run- 1.70 60 foot
7.16 660 foot @ 101.31mph
11.17 ET @ 115.09mph (19psi boost)

The oval was still misfiring and the horrible noises reoccured in 4th gear . The tappet started to rattle badly again . Dad and I suspected that the heads were lifting at the high boost setting .
Back to the pits , off with all the rockers , retension both heads , reassemble and adjust all tappets . ( while lying on my back in the dirt and 20kph winds )
Uncertain of whether the engine was running rich or lean , I opted for the safe option and added 3% more fuel to the microtec map .

4th run- 1.80 60 foot
7.23 660 foot @105.34mph
11.02 ET @131.50mph (19psi boost)

The engine appeared to misfire worse than before , but this time I kept the boot into it to see if it was going to clear . I achieved my highest top speed on this run for the meeting .
Back to the pits I go . Nick and I have another discussion on the fuel situation and I decide this time to deduct 5% fuel from the microtec map . I also decided to run the oval on low boost to see if this helped .

5th run- 1.56 60 foot
6.69 660 foot @ 106.01
10.49 ET @ 129.68mph (14psi boost)

HOLY SHIT !! didn't that wake the oval up . It felt strong from start to finish and did not misfire once . The oval left the line real hard and headed for the wall on my right . I make a minor correction while changing gears and then the oval heads for the centreline . Another correction sees the oval make a clean pass . From the incar footage I can see the speedo at 55mph when I change to 2nd . Then the speedo goes past 80mph as I change to 3rd and from there the needle is jammed hard against the zero stop . The tacho can be seen going past the 8000rpm mark on more than one occasion . What a handful the oval suddenly became , especially in the braking area . Fortunately I was on a solo run as the oval crossed the centreline and I used both lanes to slow the oval while I was fighting to keep it under control after the finish-line .

6th run- 1.79 60 foot
6.03 660 foot @ 85.16mph
12.42 ET @ 22.26mph (14psi boost)

I made a great launch in 1st gear and then shifted straight to 4th . The clutch slipped terribly . I backed out of it as it was the final and there was no way that I was going to catch Morgan Smith after I missed a gear .

Congratulations to morgan and his crew of helpers for a job well done . Their car ran so consistantly all day , they earned the win .

It was a real pleasure to meet a few of the AVD members down there . Rhet ( PHATBUG ) , James (VWFASTBACK) and a sincere thankyou to a valued friend for your assistance and support , Nick (BOOSTN) .

[ Edited on 14-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

[ Edited on 15-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

Beetspeed · 15 Jan 2007, 2:50 am

Wow!!
Many congrets from the other side of the world!
10.49 with a type 4 in a full bodied car is awesome!!

Walter

PHAT BUG · 15 Jan 2007, 4:39 am

What an awesome day, it was great to see the run in person.
the car is a credit to you Wayne, all the hard work paying off. Again Congatulations.

dangerous · 15 Jan 2007, 5:45 am

Great report Wayne!
Sounds like that thing will have a run soon with a nine at the begining!?

My calculations say that with no miss, and with the 19 psi setting it will run at least 136mph.
That is a solid 9 second pass.

Bring it on!

[ Edited on 14-1-2007 by dangerous ]

fullnoise · 15 Jan 2007, 9:25 pm

Nice one Wayne. Not just for the time at the track but the whole process.

I'd prefer to be beaten by your oval than your tow car any day!

CYA CT

Dak-A-Tak · 15 Jan 2007, 9:54 pm

WOW & WOW again Wayne .Good to see you had one , clean run!
Great!!! another 10sec car in Ussie land.I like the half track time (6.69 et 106mph )Bit more track time will make
you fill better behide the wheel !! Wayne.
Bring on the Video footage !Guys !
Looks like a few safety (ANDRA ) things to come .Don't let these things slow you down ,Wayne .
Good - one Mate!!!!!!!!!!!!

hypo-vw · 15 Jan 2007, 10:45 pm

Firstly thanks guys for all of the encouraging remarks .

Well I had a discussion with Kevin @ SOUTH COAST ROTARY today to try and determine what all of the banging noises may have been in the oval whilst in 4th gear , and he is very confident that the oval was trying to develop more boost that we had planned it to .
The boost-cut map is a circuit in the microtec that prevents the engine from overboosting and cuts power to the injectors at a preset level . When we had the oval on the dyno , we set the high boost at 19psi and set the boost-cut at 21psi .
He assures me that the oval was trying to produce more boost under load than the preset level which caused the engine to violently cut in and out of the boost-cut map causing the excessive noises and vibrations . He has experienced this in the past , but wasn't there on saturday to assist due to a back injury that prevented him from travelling .This will also explain why it did not occur when I selected the low boost setting of 14psi .
Next time out we will turn the boost-cut off and rely more on the wastegate to protect from overboosting .

humpty · 15 Jan 2007, 11:05 pm

Inspirational stuff....

Boostn · 15 Jan 2007, 11:16 pm

That makes sense Wayne, didn't think of that but I never use that option.
Microtechs tend to spike here and there on the map sensor. If you plan to run 19-20 psi you always tune way past just in case it pick up another value there is no problem. Even when I do aspirated map tunes I always put a value in at 2 psi because if I don't it sometimes has a miss.
They are still a good computer though.

Flintstones · 15 Jan 2007, 11:25 pm

Sensational stuff Wayne!!

Fantastic acheivement throughout the whole build process to date.

Can't wait to see the oval run at WSID.

Cheers

2443TT · 16 Jan 2007, 7:45 am

hypo-vw wrote:Firstly thanks guys for all of the encouraging remarks .

Well I had a discussion with Kevin @ SOUTH COAST ROTARY today to try and determine what all of the banging noises may have been in the oval whilst in 4th gear , and he is very confident that the oval was trying to develop more boost that we had planned it to .
The boost-cut map is a circuit in the microtec that prevents the engine from overboosting and cuts power to the injectors at a preset level . When we had the oval on the dyno , we set the high boost at 19psi and set the boost-cut at 21psi .
He assures me that the oval was trying to produce more boost under load than the preset level which caused the engine to violently cut in and out of the boost-cut map causing the excessive noises and vibrations . He has experienced this in the past , but wasn't there on saturday to assist due to a back injury that prevented him from travelling .This will also explain why it did not occur when I selected the low boost setting of 14psi .
Next time out we will turn the boost-cut off and rely more on the wastegate to protect from overboosting .

Turbosmart gated boost controlers are prone to causing boost spikes. They are generally stable to about 14lb but after that the boost spikes get larger and larger. Ive seen spikes up to 4-5lb when trying to regulate to 20lb boost on imports.

The only option is to switch to an eboost and use twin port gate control. You then set your primary boost pressure, and a secondary value called gate pressure that allows you to set an over boost factor to a degree, and allow the boost to come on faster.

You could run heavier wastegate springs too, but that means loosing your "streetability".

I don't know if the microtech lets you do it, but with some ecu's you can allow overboosting to occur for programmable amount of seconds too. You might be able to tweak these settings to allow the overboost to happen, and just wait a little longer before going into protection mode. Afterall the idea of it is to protect against a hose off the wastegate actuator scenario, which it would still do just fine.

tassupervee · 16 Jan 2007, 11:04 am

Excellent stuff M8.

However, reading thru the report I find a very disturbing section that deals with adding and subtracting fuel based on banging and missfiring.
This kind of hit and miss trackside adjustment can result in a grenaded engine if the adjustment was done one way based on what you could "hear" and what was actually happening.

Case in point. many years ago when I was racing 250cc superkarts, one of the guys has an RM250 Suzuki powered kart.
This thing was running well and using a 1.87mm main jet but the owner "reckoned he heard" a slight missfiring at WOT.

So, he blithely replace the main jet going from 1.87mm down to 1.60mm as the thought the missfire was from too rich.
No plug cuts, nothing, just what he heard.
Off he goes and grenades the engine half a lap out from the pits..................
Head off reveals the majority of the piston crown melted and blown off. Even the plug electrodes were melted, this after less than half a lap!
Now, these engine produce in the vicinity of 300Hp/litre.

Now, on a forced engine with the money you have unloaded and the potential of this thing, I cannot believe you guys have not added a wide band EGO sensor into the turbo dump and a decent calibrated EGO readout/logger (Innovate, to name one, less that 400 dollars)

This would have revealed your fuelling "problem" immediately (if there actually was one) and could have prevented a nasty detonation that might have seriously ruined your day even further than a buggered unobtanium valve top.
This is precisely the clobber your tuner used to tune your engine on the dyno in the first place.

You guys are playing in a serious league here and so should forget about cheaper narrow band EGO's and digital readouts. Spend your money now and possibly save shitloads later. Especially on expensive dyno pulls to set EGO's

Food for thought.
Best of luck guys and congrats.

L8tr
E

sub60 · 16 Jan 2007, 4:53 pm

Your right Wayne, a very interesting read. But for me an extremely informative and unselfishly informative write up from you. Some find fault with things they cannot do themselves, makes them feel better? All the best

2443TT · 16 Jan 2007, 5:17 pm

It depends on the ECU but some do a fuel cut, others do an ignition cut, but the goal is to protect the engine from overboosting.

Keep in mind that boosted engines typically running in the area of 12-11.5:1 AFR's when on boost, so cutting fuel 100% isn't going to hurt anything. Sudden deceleration and loosing control of the car as a result is a bigger worry.

Also you might be interested in knowing that my PLX devices wideband AFR that uses a Bosch LSU4.2 sensor (used by inovate and most others), displays lean AFR's when my MSD 2 step comes into play with my skylines anti-lag/launch control system. When infact its not lean because at the 20lb boost map point its running 11.8:1, AND on antilag its also getting an additional 12% fuel too. I suspect its due to the exhaust gas temps being quite higher than normal.

What i'm trying to say is that one extra gauge with an AFR probably isn't the answer, and when the car's doing 10's at 128mph your eyes are best on the track. A BIG RED WARNING light linked to an output on the ecu that triggers under certain conditions like overboost and lean AFR's would be better as it could be kept in your peripheral vision like a shift light.

Just my opinion...

cjbolt51 · 16 Jan 2007, 7:00 pm

Well done again mate, it was a great weekend with a great end result & a pleasure to watch.... VERY INSPIRING, Can't wait for Warick

hypo-vw · 16 Jan 2007, 10:42 pm

iswinkels wrote:when the car's doing 10's at 128mph your eyes are best on the track

Very well put Ian . I have in the oval a 5" tacho with shift light , 2 head temperature guages , oil pressure guage , oil temperature guage , fuel pressure guage , exhaust temperature guage , boost guage , and a volts guage .
With all this hardware it should be easy to diagnose what the problem is , but you must first look at the guages .
I had 6 runs at Heatcote and I never once saw any of the guages . It wasn't until late saturday night that we viewed the in-car footage at the motel , only then to discover that the shift light wasn't working . 6 runs and I didn't even notice the shift light as I was so busy at the wheel .
4 gears in 10 seconds over 400 metres at 130mph certainly goes bloody fast !!

Boostn · 17 Jan 2007, 1:55 am

sub60 wrote:Some find fault with things they cannot do themselves, makes them feel better? All the best

VERY WELL PUT !!!

some people need to realise that when you dyno an engine that makes this much power the dyno guy should always tune on the safe side to set up a basic map.
And some people need to realise that every dyno is different, every dyno tuner is different, altitude changes, the wind makes a difference and so on..............

So basically what I am trying to say is that you are always going to have to play with the tune up at the track.
Also if people out there know anything about C16, they will know that it has a smaller window to tune in than unleaded.

Wayne you did really well on the day and I don't think some people understand how fast everything is happening and as you know you are happy just to keep it off the walls.LOL

hypo-vw · 17 Jan 2007, 7:01 am

I don't think some people understand how fast everything is happening and as you know you are happy just to keep it off the walls.LOL

Dean and I are currently putting together a video of the oval on the day which includes in-car footage . Maybe when they see this or even Nicks in-car footage they might get more of an idea that total concentration is required and the eyes dont leave the track .

What through me on the day was the fact that just 2 days earlier I had the oval on the dyno and set up perfectly with air/fuels of 11.8 on full throttle at 19psi boost . Kevin had set the tune already on the safe side (rich) and had made a comment to me that the harder he revved the engine the more boost it makes , so when I had the problems at the track I didn't even realise that the boost cut had been turned on . On the dyno he was revving the engine to around 6000rpm whilst the in-car footage shows the tacho in the vicinity of 8500rpm at some stages .

I have raced with this engine now since 2000 and had many dyno sessions both N/A and Turbo . Every other time the oval has been set up I have gone to the track whether it be local or interstate or high in altitude , and run without problems ( usually winning the event in record time ) This was the very first time that the altitude affected my tune and now I understand why . As Nick explained , there is a much smaller window for tune with C-16 fuel . And as far as the adjustments made , we always add more fuel first as the engine has far less chance of incurring any damage with too much fuel , then start to lean it off carefully until you reach the desired results .

[ Edited on 16-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

tassupervee · 17 Jan 2007, 8:57 pm

hypo-vw wrote:This was the very first time that the altitude affected my tune and now I understand why . As Nick explained , there is a much smaller window for tune with C-16 fuel .
[ Edited on 16-1-07 by hypo-vw ]

Precisely my point and all the more reason to look at this kind of clobber.

Im not and never suggesting yet another guage to try and scope whilst running down the strip with your hair on fire! Shit no!

Im suggesting simple LOGGING of the AFR data for evaluation between runs.

Im sure there has been no dramas to date which is very cool but, theres a first time and logging EGO's can expose a drama that might otherwise go unnoticed and result in a DNF and at your level, possibly a very expensive one.

A leaking FPR boost sense line.
A lazy EFI pump/wiring
A dodgey inlet air temp sensor and so-on can contribute to, or result in a dangerous leaning of AFR's that you would never know of until the engine grenaded.

This is my point, not the addition of another stupid dial to distract you on the run which seems to be the center of the rebuttal.
Knowing exactly what your AFR's are doing each and every run takes ANY guesswork out of fuelling adjustments.
Its not a replacement for dyno time, its an worthy addition to it.

L8tr
E

2443TT · 17 Jan 2007, 9:40 pm

Not that i'm taking the piss, but have you ever seen High Octane 4 with the two indian guys?

"You can never have too many gauges. Look I even know what temperature your asshole is"

"don't worry mother we are only using low boost"

"Initiate second turbo! We need more boost!"

"oh no... too much boost 🙁"

Data logging is definatly the way to go. I use my wolf data logging to record dyno runs any also 1/4 mile runs. With the recorded data you can view the data in playback mode at realtime speed or just look at the graphs for highs and lows, while refrerencing every recorded sensor in the engine management VS rpm. It records boost level too, but it won't show you an overboost event, it will only display it graphically so you need to work it out from the data logger, and the min max peak logging. By "event" i mean it entered a protection mode to cut boost.

[ Edited on 17-1-2007 by iswinkels ]

hypo-vw · 18 Jan 2007, 7:17 am

cjbolt51 wrote:Well done again mate, it was a great weekend with a great end result & a pleasure to watch.... VERY INSPIRING, Can't wait for Warick

all we have to do now Chris is to get your VEE running as quick as the oval .......... may be a bit of a challenge though from the 40hp engine .

hypo-vw · 18 Jan 2007, 7:20 am

Im suggesting simple LOGGING of the AFR data for evaluation between runs.

that makes better sense to me . I like the idea and will definately look into the options available . Thanks mate .

sub60 · 18 Jan 2007, 9:29 am

Tassupervee your U2U has been replied to.

tassupervee · 20 Jan 2007, 12:37 pm

hypo-vw wrote:

Im suggesting simple LOGGING of the AFR data for evaluation between runs.

that makes better sense to me . I like the idea and will definately look into the options available . Thanks mate .

Innovate LM-1 logs up to 40 minutes of data.
Couple that with a good 5 wire EGO sensor, and for under 400 bucks and tuning guesses will be over.

Im considering such clobber myself for more accurate readings rather than the largely useless narrow band sensor and bargraph display I use now.

L8tr
E

[ Edited on 20/1/07 by tassupervee ]

dangerous · 20 Jan 2007, 1:14 pm

tassupervee wrote:Innovate LM-1 logs up to 40 minutes of data.
Couple that with a good 5 wire EGO sensor, and for under 400 bucks and tuning guesses will be over.

Im considering such clobber myself for more accurate readings rather than the largely useless narrow band sensor and bargraph display I use now.

L8tr
E

[ Edited on 20/1/07 by tassupervee ]

Will that work on methanol?

VWFREAK · 20 Jan 2007, 2:03 pm

Well done, Wayne, great to see all that hard work finally pay off. Hopefully she runs alot more consitantly now.

Well done.

Peter

tassupervee · 20 Jan 2007, 8:31 pm

dangerous wrote:Will that work on methanol?

Yep.

L8tr
E

Boostn · 24 Jan 2007, 12:05 am

I think James just bought one of them and they are closer to the 1k mark I think.

Wayne how about that incar footage?

tassupervee · 24 Jan 2007, 7:22 pm

Innovate LM-1 with a 5 wire wide band EGO sensor for 330 USD
Dunno what else he bought. There is a shiteload of add-ons for the LM-1.
L8tr
E

vwfastback · 24 Jan 2007, 10:30 pm

3756 LM-1 Kit with AuxBox LMA-3, Bosch 5-Wire O2, 10 ft. Sensor Cable, 10 ft. Power Cable, 6 ft. Serial Cable, Each $830 Aus.

LM-1 with a 5 wire wide band EGO sensor approx $580

I also got an electronic fuel pressure sender to go with the kit, 0-15PSI,to monitor fuel pressures. As Wayne said, it is hard to watch the Gauges down the track in the cabin, impossible towatch the fuel pressure one on the Carby in the engine bay.

All up, just over $1k delivered.

Cheers,

James C.

noslug · 25 Jan 2007, 9:58 am

Why dont you guys buy closer to home ???

http://wbo2.com/3b1/default.htm - $ 645 aus, for all the LM1 will ever do and much more, inluding a display and sensor.

I am using the 2BO unit. It has been superseeded now by the 3B1.

I log AFR, RPM... limitless options, connects directly to a PC, or the new one has 1 MB of logging memory. It will log any sensor that has a 0 - 5 volt output, 2 or 3 thermocouples. Also it is completely user adjustable. Shitloads of inputs for you tech heads.

Buy Australian made !!!

boof2332 · 27 Jan 2007, 12:40 am

Awesome job Wayne!!!

I love the fact that you have patiently worked towards achieving the 10 second run. I am sure my microtech cuts spark, so as not to lean that baby out, it just feels like you have turned the ignition off for a second.
I really want to run mine at easter if they are on. I'll be coming to you for a bit of advice on getting the power to the ground on the starts.

Matt

hypo-vw · 31 Jan 2007, 9:48 pm

Hey , I got a call from Ray Box today from the sport compact group , informing me that I had won $250 for the runner-up at Summer Slam .
He has advised me very strongly to put the money towards the new cage for the oval .

hellbugged · 31 Jan 2007, 9:55 pm

😂..nice one Wayne.......and congratulations, ooorsum stuff from the inception to the results!

Boostn · 1 Feb 2007, 11:56 am

$250
that will cover your dads exhaust ?............lol

Wayne, even though the wing looks crap and a cage will add weight and people will say it looks like a race car I think it's a must. I will put a cage into mine, but I am waiting for my new bender as my old one has had a hard life and the formers are not quite right any more. So I think I will park it for a while.

hypo-vw · 1 Feb 2007, 9:55 pm

Boostn wrote:$250
that will cover your dads exhaust ?............lol

I'm still in the good books with mum at the present , as dad told her that my mate Chris ( who travelled down with us to help me ) was driving the Lexcen and hit a kangaroo which in turn tore the exhaust off the car . And she believed him......
:jesus

cjbolt51 · 2 Feb 2007, 11:09 pm

All my fault LOL

tassupervee · 3 Feb 2007, 9:42 pm

boof2332 wrote:I am sure my microtech cuts spark, so as not to lean that baby out, it just feels like you have turned the ignition off for a second.

Matt, Unless something has drastically changed at Microtech, they dont cut ignition, they cut fuel on both over-rev and over-boost sos not to load the cylinders with unburnt fuel.

L8tr
E

[ Edited on 3/2/07 by tassupervee ]

hypo-vw · 8 Feb 2007, 6:20 am

the WPVW turbo oval video link is finally up on youtube . enjoy
( SEE LINK DOWN BELOW GUYS ) Thanks .

[ Edited on 9-2-07 by hypo-vw ]

dangerous · 8 Feb 2007, 7:45 am

Cool stuff Wayne, I love that tall first gear.

I posted this link with Nick's onthe Cal-Look Forum for all to enjoy.

BeetleJuice · 8 Feb 2007, 7:51 am

Great video,

But I would rather listen to the car without the music!

The real music is in the rear!

VWCOOL · 8 Feb 2007, 7:52 am

Love it...

But is there any way you can turn the music down so we can hear the car?

EdiT: Post above beat me to it by two seconds!

[ Edited on 7-2-2007 by VWCOOL ]

Flintstones · 8 Feb 2007, 8:12 am

Top stuff Wayne!!

Cheers

Boostn · 9 Feb 2007, 11:18 am

Looks good Wayne.

The car looks like it works well out of the hole.

Are you still going to put it away or are you going to cage it?

Dasdubber · 9 Feb 2007, 12:26 pm

Bugger - missed the video - I get a message saying the video has been removed by the user?

13BVW · 9 Feb 2007, 3:19 pm

Dasdubber wrote:Bugger - missed the video - I get a message saying the video has been removed by the user?

same here

hypo-vw · 9 Feb 2007, 4:43 pm

Dasdubber wrote:Bugger - missed the video - I get a message saying the video has been removed by the user?

sorry about that guys .... Dean did a new version of the video the night after we installed the first one and it is much better and with the music turned down low so that you can hear the engine screaming !!
I went to upload this last night and deleted the first video , only to discover this morning that my computer froze when the video had loaded just 13% .
Will try again tonight ..........:cry

hypo-vw · 9 Feb 2007, 10:41 pm

the new video has been uploaded to youtube .........enjoy !!

reub · 9 Feb 2007, 11:24 pm

Great stuff Wayne. Thanks for sharing :thumb

Dasdubber · 26 Feb 2007, 9:14 pm

Yeah that tall first gear is awesome - the in car footage is great!

66deluxe · 1 Mar 2007, 9:03 am

I love how in the vid Wayne takes his foot of the gas and then you see the RX3 still accelerating after it lost, driver thinking i can't lose to a beetle.

HotRodMatt · 1 Mar 2007, 12:29 pm

I think it still surprsies even him...

dangerous · 1 Mar 2007, 5:01 pm

COOOOOLLL!!!

Dasdubber · 1 Mar 2007, 7:05 pm

Matt, that is a great montage (probably not the right term sorry) of pics! I'm sure wayne would be stoked with it.

On a side note, Wayne I had a read through the entire thread again (still trying to learn about this world of turbo/injection).....with regards to your staging brake, does that work on the front brake circuit only (basically replacing a line lock?)? Forgive my ignorance, I couldnt' find the info and haven't had any experience with them before.

Secondly, with all your head work did you consider relocating the plug location for improved efficiency? Or is that not a worthwhile mod in your experience?

Cheers for supplying all the info in this thread, I've learned a lot already!
Alan

hypo-vw · 14 Mar 2007, 11:27 pm

Dasdubber wrote:with regards to your staging brake, does that work on the front brake circuit only

Secondly, with all your head work did you consider relocating the plug location for improved efficiency? Or is that not a worthwhile mod in your experience?

Hi Alan , the staging brake is fitted to the rear braking circuit only so as to lock the rear wheels to prevent drive from the rear axle when loading up the clutch . If it was fitted to the front circuit it would lock the front wheels and the bug would push forward with the front wheels locked when loading the clutch .
In regards to relocating the spark plugs . To gain performance in my experiences by relocating the spark plugs , you have to angle the plug towards the exhaust valve . This makes the plugs impossible to get to in a volkswagen due to the design of the inlet manifold . I normally relocate plugs in the type-4 engines to gain extra thickness of head material between barrel mounting face on the head and spark plug to reduce head distorsion . In the case of my turbo engine , I am using a 5th headstud on each cylinder to achieve the same results and with better head sealing under boost .

hypo-vw · 18 Mar 2007, 11:39 pm

I checked out the damage to the titanium valve after my 10.49sec pass at Heathcote . The tappet clearance had increased to approx. 3mm and the top of the valve is non-existant . I am feeling very lucky that it didn't break or push the collets out .
Doesn't look pretty !!

hypo-vw · 7 Nov 2007, 1:27 am

I will be taking my turbo oval to WSID on wednesday night 14th November to see if I can lower my Quickest quarter mile pass of 10.49secs .
My turbo oval is a bit heavier now with the new rollcage ,but I am confident that the oval will run quicker after doing an 1/8 mile pass at Warrick of 6.75 secs @ 109.75 mph .
This is nearly 4mph quicker than the 10.49 sec pass when I ran at Heathcote back in January this year .
The oval is going onto the dyno tuesday afternoon and if it does survive this session of boost enhancements , then off to WSID on wednesday night .
Hope to see a few more VW's there .

The Bigfella · 7 Nov 2007, 10:30 am

I just read this thread from 1-31 last night - fabulous! How about some photos of the rollcage?

.... oh yeah - thought of using chains when you dyno it? At least they won't melt.

hypo-vw · 11 Nov 2007, 9:04 am

Due to a massive work load and a severe shortage of staff , I will not be taking the oval to WSID on the 14th . The oval was supposed to come out of the trailer yesterday , to be serviced before the dyno session on tuesday night , but due to customer work it didn't get done .
I will try to get it out next weekend and will post the date when I will run .

Boostn · 11 Nov 2007, 2:27 pm

I'm hearing ya Wayne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No time for playing for me. Maybe a few months into 2008?

Good luck with your beast!

JVLRacing · 18 Nov 2007, 12:23 pm

always impressive!

hypo-vw · 18 Nov 2007, 11:56 pm

I did manage to get the oval out of the trailer on saturday and will give it a thorough check over tomorrow night before putting it on the dyno .

If the engine survives the dyno session , I will run the oval at WSID on wednesday night . I will be doing a few minor modifications with the wastegate plumbing as the last time it was on the dyno we had difficulty getting the boost above 19psi .

We are looking to run between 24-28psi and would like approx. 400bhp at the rear wheels . I am aiming for a 9.90 pass at approx. 138mph .

At Warrick this year the oval made 7 passes and there are no signs of head leakage . The engine sounds as good as it did when we took it up there . On the 1/8 mile it ran 109.75mph .

The oval is also fitted with a new rear wing which was designed and manufactured by Ric Campbell of BIG WIG RACE CARS in Texas .

I will post dyno results on tuesday night , and hopefully no pics of schrapnel .

If anyone wants one of these rear wings , I do have a new one in stock $350-00

vwfastback · 19 Nov 2007, 8:42 am

Wayne,

Best of luck on the Dyno. I will be in Sydney for work on Wed, if you are racing, I will stay over and come out to watch. Just let the net know.

James C.

reub · 19 Nov 2007, 8:47 pm

You're a crazy, crazy man.....for which we all love 😀

Wicked stuff mate👍

hypo-vw · 20 Nov 2007, 2:11 am

Well I stayed back tonight and serviced the oval . Everything looks fine , I am wrapped !!

I have adjusted the tappets which were all close to being at their correct clearances , checked all manifold nuts and intake system for any leaks , and had a thorough check-over of all suspension and brakes .

I have re-plumbed the turbosmart wastegate and I can see where we will get more boost from . The wastegate is fitted with a 14psi spring and with the turbo compressor outlet plumbed directly to the top side of the wastegate , 14psi boost pressure can now be added to the top side of the wastgate to get a total of 28psi .

Everything has gone very well and the oval will be on the dyno at South Coast Rotary tomorrow evening .

hypo-vw · 20 Nov 2007, 9:27 pm

The dyno session was very informative tonight . We set the low boost at 14psi and the oval ran 296bhp at the rear wheels .
We then tried the high boost circuit , only to discover that our boost was limited to 21psi and 340bhp at the rear wheels .

after much effort , plumbing , re-plumbing ........... I disconnected the boost controller and ran a boost hose directly from the compressor housing on the turbo , straight to the wastegate . This was done for diagnostic purposes and should have given us unlimited boost .

This was not the case as we have discovered that my T-60 garrett turbo is too small on the exhaust housing and exhaust wheel . At high rpm with the large capacity type-4 engine , the exhaust side of my turbo cannot cope with the volume of exhaust gases that is needed to pass through it . Therefore the turbo doesnt increase in speed to supply the volume of inlet air required to create boost .

To top that off , after a few more runs in testing , I have damaged the transmission . A large cracking noise came from the transmission which resulted in no 2nd gear and the transmission locking up when trying to reverse .

So I wont be at WSID tomorrow night . The engine and transmission needs to be removed so that the transmission can be stripped for inspection .

Will post pics of the damage ............

2443TT · 20 Nov 2007, 9:55 pm

Get a Garrett GT3076 with the 0.86 turbine housing. Easily good for the 400rwhp but not much more. It will be extremely responsive too as they match these to 2lt hi reving modified jap engines.

Also i been in a 500hp 3lt supra that had a GT3040R single conversion on it, and it was very responsive too. No traction till 4th gear on the street. Considering the 2.9lt flat 4 it would be an interesting match. You'd be able to pull the 400rwhp power mark on about 15-16lb.

Shame about the tranny. I wonder what new broken parts you will have for the offerings to the god of speed shelf.

reub · 20 Nov 2007, 10:26 pm

Joys of big power in a dub hey....

Great to hear about the power figures still👍

Flintstones · 20 Nov 2007, 11:09 pm

hypo-vw wrote:This was not the case as we have discovered that my T-60 garrett turbo is too small on the exhaust housing and exhaust wheel . At high rpm with the large capacity type-4 engine , the exhaust side of my turbo cannot cope with the volume of exhaust gases that is needed to pass through it . Therefore the turbo doesnt increase in speed to supply the volume of inlet air required to create boost .

Still made more power than last time 👍
What size rear cover is currently on the T-60 and what RPM was it restricting?

Cheers

hypo-vw · 21 Nov 2007, 5:57 am

the rear housing on the t-60 that I am currently using is a 1.00 , and the wheel is a 58 I think from memory . I will confirm this when I remove it .

dangerous · 21 Nov 2007, 8:24 am

hypo-vw wrote:the rear housing on the t-60 that I am currently using is a 1.00 , and the wheel is a 58 I think from memory . I will confirm this when I remove it .

Hi Wayne,
looking forward to seeing what it does with an up grade.

On the few cars I have been involved with that are turbo charged,
the 1.00 split pulse housing was good for around 500 engine power.

I would suggest the compressor side needs upgrading more so.
I will look for my maps to see what i can find.

There is no doubt that the exhaust size will cause excess back pressure, but a guage in there wil confirm this.
I believe the .86 single entry housing has a higher flow rate than what you have now, but I have heard there is a 1.1 (or 1.09?) split hsg that is a bolt-on)

As Ian has hinted, a small upgrade will keep your drivability and boost response,
but open up your ability for higher manifold pressure gains.

Boostn · 21 Nov 2007, 6:16 pm

Sorry to hear about the G/box Wayne, but that's the game we are playing and can be expected.
Does that mean your not coming down to play at Portland?

hypo-vw · 22 Nov 2007, 5:37 am

Boostn wrote:Sorry to hear about the G/box Wayne, but that's the game we are playing and can be expected.
Does that mean your not coming down to play at Portland?

Hi Nick , I will be at Portland mate . I will probably run the oval at WSID before Christmas .

hypo-vw · 22 Nov 2007, 5:47 am

the 1.00 split pulse housing was good for around 500 engine power.

I would suggest the compressor side needs upgrading more so

There is no doubt that the exhaust size will cause excess back pressure

Hi Dave , I'm led to believe that the exhaust housings do come to suit different size wheels . It is the size of the wheel that is the real issue , not the size of the housing . The surface area between the vanes of the 58 wheel that I am using is not enough to allow the volume of gasses to pass through the wheel . The surface area of a 67 wheel is much larger and would cope with a greater volume of exhaust gas . I'm sure we can get a 1.00 housing to suit a 67 wheel , but will confirm this .

I think the compressor side is ok , but will still look at it . Through our diagnostics on the dyno we discovered that exhaust gas pressure was blowing the wastegate from its seat .

hypo-vw · 22 Nov 2007, 5:54 am

a few pics following of some visible transmission damage . Went to work yesterday morning to find a huge pool of oil under the oval , transmission oil .

You will clearly see that both the gear carrier housing and the selector housing are broken . Will need to get the box out and strip it to assess damage .

hypo-vw · 22 Nov 2007, 5:58 am

more pics .

hypo-vw · 22 Nov 2007, 5:59 am

more pics

dangerous · 22 Nov 2007, 6:29 am

That looks horribly familliar Wayne!

Dasdubber · 22 Nov 2007, 7:31 am

Ouch Wayne!

Dave, what was the outcome of suggestions via your cal-look thread for this problem? Is the "over-the-top" front solid mount a possible solution to this problem?
I see (just quoting here) Paul Guard mentioned the following modification:
1st gear thrust washer, swingaxle side gear thrust washer, 2 OD-ground 36 hp shims; all stacked between 4th fixed gear and the housing; minor machining required; set with .002" clearance; no chromoly nut even required

Wayne I know until it is stripped down the cause isn't known yet - I'm enjoying learning about these breakages (not that I enjoy seeing you guys break stuff) - but I'm sure I'll be in that position sooner or later so I appreciate the pics and info to learn more about possible prevention methods!
Alan

dangerous · 22 Nov 2007, 8:38 am

The problem with me was a failed pinion bearing nut.
But i have seen the actual bearing fail right there next to the thread.

Most of the USA guys feel just a chromoly version will suffice,
but I will add the thrust washers inside the case as well.

The stock magnesium intermediate housing will only handle very little thrust load,
so the thrust washer idea, in Waynes case, will only help a little.

Very unusual to occur with out a shock load however.

The mounting system I have is more than adequate,
and was not the cause (in my case) of the failed housing.

hypo-vw · 13 Jan 2008, 10:36 pm

Well I managed to remove the transmission from the oval yesterday and strip it down for inspection . What I found is not pretty at all and pics will follow shortly .

I removed the drain plug from the transmission to drain the oil . What I expected to see come out was clean synthetic gear oil ........what did come out was oil that was heavily contaminated with aluminum and steel filings , small sections of crown wheel teeth , half a dozen tapered rollers from the pinion bearing and a large piece of the pinion bearing itself .

After stripping the entire transmission this was the damage -
1- pinion bearing smashed and cage and rollers totally dislodged
2- broken teeth on both the crownwheel and pinion
3- mainshaft ina bearing in front housing totally destroyed and worn off centre
4- 1st gear severley damaged from misaligned shafts
5- 2nd gear severley damaged from debris
6- 4th gear severley damaged from collapsed support bearing which is welded inside the gear
7- mainshaft severely damaged from collapsed front ina bearing , damaged teeth on both 1st and 2nd gears and 4th gear support bearing welded to shaft . Mainshaft had to be cut with the grinder to remove and salvage 3rd gear set
8- mainshaft bearing smashed with cage dislodged and all rollers to one side of bearing
9- gear carrier housing and selector housing broken

The entire transmission is destroyed , only saving the 3rd gear set , selector forks , rhino housing , side plates , and ZF LSD .

It is quite obvious to me that things had been going wrong in the transmission when competing at Warrick , and at the time I had not detected it . Back to the drawing board .

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 14 Jan 2008, 7:49 am

By the sounds if it Wayne if your going to do a job then you do it properly!!!

Dak-A-Tak · 14 Jan 2008, 9:52 pm

WOW !! Wayne ,big damage there . Those are very hard miles on that tranny .My last tranny breakage was after 3runs (willowbank ) on a fresh gearbox .I know how you feel 😬
???? I hope or talk you into it , coming down to Portland to race mate .
Did you enjoy your Warwick dvd ,wayne .Your car was waycool at Warwick !!

hypo-vw · 14 Jan 2008, 11:18 pm

Dak-A-Tak wrote:WOW !! Wayne ,big damage there . Those are very hard miles on that tranny .My last tranny breakage was after 3runs (willowbank ) on a fresh gearbox .I know how you feel 😬
???? I hope or talk you into it , coming down to Portland to race mate .
Did you enjoy your Warwick dvd ,wayne .Your car was waycool at Warwick !!

Hi Peter , firstly thank Lisa for the DVD's that she put together and sent us . They are a credit to her . I can clearly see lots of time and lots of editing had to be done to produce such a fine movie of the weekend . I would like 1 more copy please and does she still have copies of Warrick 2006 DVD .

Secondly , I will be at Portland with the turbo oval , the sports sedan and my mate Chris' formula vee . The transmission damage was a slight set back in preparation for the event , however , I had all the parts in stock to resuirect the transmission . The gear train assemblies are already assembled and the tranny would have been finished if not for a worn selector shaft guide . The gear carrier housing has been sent to be re-bushed .

The new transmission specs are as follows -
4.11 1st
2.21 2nd
1.44 3rd
1.09 4th
3.44 R&P

looking forward to seeing you all in the southern states for the best VW party on the planet !!

dangerous · 15 Jan 2008, 6:34 am

hypo-vw wrote:Well I managed to remove the transmission from the oval yesterday and strip it down for inspection . What I found is not pretty at all and pics will follow shortly .

I removed the drain plug from the transmission to drain the oil . What I expected to see come out was clean synthetic gear oil ........what did come out was oil that was heavily contaminated with aluminum and steel filings , small sections of crown wheel teeth , half a dozen tapered rollers from the pinion bearing and a large piece of the pinion bearing itself .

After stripping the entire transmission this was the damage -
1- pinion bearing smashed and cage and rollers totally dislodged
2- broken teeth on both the crownwheel and pinion
3- mainshaft ina bearing in front housing totally destroyed and worn off centre
4- 1st gear severley damaged from misaligned shafts
5- 2nd gear severley damaged from debris
6- 4th gear severley damaged from collapsed support bearing which is welded inside the gear
7- mainshaft severely damaged from collapsed front ina bearing , damaged teeth on both 1st and 2nd gears and 4th gear support bearing welded to shaft . Mainshaft had to be cut with the grinder to remove and salvage 3rd gear set
8- mainshaft bearing smashed with cage dislodged and all rollers to one side of bearing
9- gear carrier housing and selector housing broken

The entire transmission is destroyed , only saving the 3rd gear set , selector forks , rhino housing , side plates , and ZF LSD .

It is quite obvious to me that things had been going wrong in the transmission when competing at Warrick , and at the time I had not detected it . Back to the drawing board .

What failed first Wayne, and what do you believe to be the cause.
Was the pinion retainer still 'retained'?

hypo-vw · 28 Jan 2008, 11:50 pm

Dave , the pinion bearing retaining plate was still in place . The pinion bearing broke at the front flange and one full set of rollers came out and then all hell broke loose inside the gearbox.
STILL NOT SURE IF THAT IS WHAT BROKE FIRST !! TOO MUCH DAMAGE .....

hypo-vw · 30 Jan 2008, 11:33 pm

transmission damage pics .

hypo-vw · 30 Jan 2008, 11:36 pm

more pics .

hypo-vw · 30 Jan 2008, 11:39 pm

more pics .

hypo-vw · 30 Jan 2008, 11:43 pm

more pics .

hypo-vw · 30 Jan 2008, 11:46 pm

more pics .

Flintstones · 31 Jan 2008, 12:05 am

So what's the plan from here?.......are you going to put another beetle box back in or would you be looking at a kombi box?

Cheers

dangerous · 31 Jan 2008, 6:32 am

1....4th seized on the shaft. (cause? lubrication or clearance)
2....once seized, gears spread apart breaking housing, and pinion bearing,
3....this lack of mesh also caused falure of CW&P and other gears.

If the other gears also started to seize on the shaft, then I would say lubrication.
I always like to add oil holes in the hubs to help with this, remembering that until the wheels begin to turn,
the mainshaft is running at engine rpm within 3rd and 4th.
Once the car is moving flat out, the pinion is spinning very fast within 1st and 2nd.
(because or their lower ratio),
but of all the ratios, 4th suffers the most,
running the fastest and longest relative to the mainshaft.
...I use maximum clearance on this ratio(end float AND more diametral clearance)

Flat out in fouth gear,
3rd gear on the mainshaft DOES spin at 1.444 times the pinion shaft speed(with your ratio) relative to the housing,
but the rpm relative to the shaft it runs on
is no problem....although I'll bet the oil has trouble staying along for the ride due to centrifugal force slinging it off.

I like to use a good 80/90 gear oil for hypoid diffs, despite the type-one not being hypoid.
The EP additives help with the loads.

Hope this helps Wayne.
If you need any parts let me know, I have a lot of left overs available.

hypo-vw · 31 Jan 2008, 10:52 pm

Thanks Dave . In the past I have only ever had trouble with my transmissions when using synthetic gear oils as in this instant . I too am starting to think about the oil being thrown off the shafts due to centrifugal forces.

I did have enough spares in stock to repair the transmission , assembled it last night and will probably get the oval back together next week .

I will be taking the oval to WSID for a severe floggin (as I am currently very pissed off with it ) before towing it all the way to Portland . It very nearly had a for sale sign attached to it last week !!

Transmission repaired as follows -
replaced 1st gear set with albins 4.11 (used)
replaced 2nd gear set with albins 2.21 (used)
reused albins 3rd gear set 1.44
replaced 4th gear set with albins 1.09 (new)
replaced 3-4 hub assembly (used)
replaced reverse gear (used)
replaced all synchro rings (new)
replaced pinion bearing (used metal cage type)
replaced mainshaft bearing (used)
replaced 3.44 ring and pinion (new)
replaced mainshaft ina bearing (used)
replaced gear carrier housing ( rebushed selectors)
replaced selector housing

hypo-vw · 31 Jan 2008, 11:11 pm

The Bigfella wrote:I just read this thread from 1-31 last night - fabulous! How about some photos of the rollcage?

here are a couple of pics of the roll cage .

2443TT · 31 Jan 2008, 11:22 pm

Hi Wayne,

Does that cage weld or bolt attach to the body or the pan? Is it a custom cage or a bond bars cage?

I need some idea's on how to best put a cage into my car. The easiest approach is to weld it to mounts that I can weld to the body especially when its off the pan. When the two are bolted together i'll get the rigidity that I need. Any chance you have some better pics of where the cage attaches to the body or chassis?

hypo-vw · 2 Feb 2008, 12:47 am

2443TT wrote:Hi Wayne,

Does that cage weld or bolt attach to the body or the pan? Is it a custom cage or a bond bars cage?

Any chance you have some better pics of where the cage attaches to the body or chassis?

Hi Ian , the new rollcage in my oval is a custom made chromemoly cage that was manufactured by Chris Dowd Engineering @ Dapto , to comply with ANDRA specifications . Chris is an amazing engineer that provides only the top quality service and products .

The cage is fully welded into the oval and manufactured in a manner so that if I need to in the future , the body can be lifted from the pan with the cage fitted to the body structure .

I will take more detailed pics tomorrow showing the strengthening plates and mounting points and post them so that you can see in more detail .
Wayne .

hypo-vw · 2 Feb 2008, 3:04 pm

pics of the rollcage in my oval .

hypo-vw · 2 Feb 2008, 3:06 pm

more rollcage pics from my oval

hypo-vw · 2 Feb 2008, 3:10 pm

more rollcage pics from my oval

2443TT · 2 Feb 2008, 8:07 pm

Very nice cage Wayne. Thanks for the pics you've given me a few more idea's. Are the cross door braces legal in NSW in street cars?

hypo-vw · 3 Feb 2008, 11:24 pm

after 2 very long days on the oval , it is reassembled and only needs 2 axle boots and oil in both the engine and transmission .
following are some progress pics from today . They included the very abused clutch with the wornout 4-puk disc .
Im starting to think that someone has got into my oval and not treated it with the respect that it deserves ... they had better look out if I catch them !!

These first pics show how the plenims were leaking where they were attached to the throttle bodies . This is a possible reason for not being able to develop high boost pressure .

The 3rd pic shows how I machine the base of the plenims by attaching a sheet of 1200 wet and dry paper to a sheet of flat glass . Takes a fair bit of time to machine , but the results are outstanding .

hypo-vw · 3 Feb 2008, 11:33 pm

more progress pics .

I also discovered that all 4 injectors had been leaking air under boost pressure . I removed all injectors , cleaned them and sealed them to the throttle bodies .

hypo-vw · 3 Feb 2008, 11:39 pm

more progress pics .

I have removed the 4-puk disc and replaced it with a 3-puk disc as the 4-puk disc had too much slip from the start line .

hypo-vw · 3 Feb 2008, 11:44 pm

more progress pics .

My son Dean turned up today and helped me put the engine back into the oval .

hypo-vw · 12 Feb 2008, 11:45 pm

Well things in the WPVW camp have not run too smoothly over the past couple of weeks in preparation for portland .
You have seen how the clutch plate was on the oval in the above pics and after replacing the clutch disc with a new 3-puk , the engine was refitted and when the oval was fired up on monday last week , I found that the clutch would not release and I could not get gears .
I over adjusted the clutch and it still would not release . I then started the oval in 1st gear with my foot on the clutch and proceeded to test drive it up and down the street . It was very difficult to get gears and the clutch was also slipping very badly .
I knew then that the pressure plate diaphram had broken and distorted and the engine had to come back out to replace the pressure plate .
Tuesday night out comes the engine , only to find that the new clutch disc was now on the rivots and also needed replacing . I had a new 2600lb stage 3 pressure plate in stock but no clutch discs .
Thursday the new 4-puk disc arrives ( couldn't get another 3-puk from anywhere) . Thursday night fit new clutch and pressure plate . Refit engine and get oval finished at 2am .
Friday morning , test drive oval and everything feels fine .
Sunday afternoon put oval on dyno again and got some outstanding results . Ran engine on c-16 race fuel at 24psi boost and got 391.5bhp @ the rear wheels with 1811lbs of tractive effort . Engine sounded very cranky with this much boost , so we backed it off to 20psi and had 360bhp . The engine sounded a lot happier !! After getting these figures we shut the oval down to change the water in the intercooler . When we restarted the oval it wouldn't run properly . It popped and farted and lost power . We were very confused till Kevin put his hand on the microtec computer and nearly burnt it . We discovered that the exhaust heat under the car was radiating up through the rear floor area and heating up the ECU . This would not normally be an issue , but on the dyno we did a lot of testing that day .
Monday morning , I drive the oval out of the workshop to discover it has developed a loud whining noise in the transmission in 1st gear and a noisy mainshaft bearing . That afternoon I remount and insulate the ECU , fit new spark plugs , clean and check cap and rotor . I test drive the oval once again , cautiously at first and then up it !!
Never in my life have I driven something so quick !! 1st gear launch from 6000rpm ( 2 black lines 5m long ) shift light is set at 7500rpm and stays on , 2nd gear ( 2 black lines 40m long ) shift light on , 3rd gear ( 2 black lines 6m long ) . Checked tacho recal and engine revs very cleanly to 7900rpm . Drain oil from transmission and oil is full of metal .
This brings me to where I am tonight . Engine and transmission is back out of the oval . Transmission is stripped and the 2 mainshaft bearings have copped severe punishment . Have to go now and reassemble the transmission as I will be running at WSID tomorrow night at the street meet .
Will let you know how the oval goes .... I expect it to be very fast !!

On top of all this work , my apprentice Ben stayed back last night and we pulled the engine and transmission from the sports sedan to rectify an oil leak at the transmission . When we pulled the side cover from the diff we found 17 broken teeth on the crownwheel . I think someone has been giving it a floggin !! After the oval is finished we will then repair the sports sedan for portland .

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 13 Feb 2008, 7:01 am

Wayne your dedication to seeing this reach it's full potential is top shelf. Full marks to you for doing what nobody else has done. I personally love hearing about HP figures made on the dyno and then the times on the strip. good work!!

Flintstones · 13 Feb 2008, 7:54 am

391.5bhp @ the rear is just astonishing Wayne!!! even at 360 that is still mighty impressive.
Look forward to seeing Oz's first 9 second street rego'ed bug.

Cheers

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2008, 1:41 am

a few video links to youtube for my turbo oval beetle .

Hope you enjoy this as much as I do ........

hellbugged · 15 Feb 2008, 5:28 am

We love videos, thanx!!!

great wheel stand on the last one there, was the 60ft good for that pass.

car looks to be hooking up wonderfully, nice and straight too, great work!

dangerous · 15 Feb 2008, 7:09 am

Great stuff Wayne!!

Flintstones · 15 Feb 2008, 7:33 am

Great vids there Wayne.

Awesome runs and a top wheel stand at the end there.

Cheers
D

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2008, 7:55 am

I have just posted 1 extra video . No-3 watch as I attempt to do a 3rd gear burnout to warm the tyres , only to slip and overheat the clutch . The oval launches really well but the clutch slips very badly in 3rd and 4th gear , and the oval still runs a 10.5 sec pass .

reub · 15 Feb 2008, 8:34 am

Top stuff Wayne....thanks for sharing 🙅

dangerous · 15 Feb 2008, 9:21 am

Re the slipping clutch run...

1.38 sixty foot time is OUTSTANDING!!
More than enough to be in the 9s.

My best ever is 1.400.

Stanley · 15 Feb 2008, 10:38 am

awesome stuff...thanks for the vids

Boostn · 16 Feb 2008, 11:20 am

Good stuff Wayne
the car looks to be working well.
how much better is it in the top end with the wing and cage?

hypo-vw · 16 Feb 2008, 3:16 pm

Boostn wrote:Good stuff Wayne
the car looks to be working well.
how much better is it in the top end with the wing and cage?

g'day Nick , hows everything going with the new shop mate . The oval is a totally different car to drive now . No longer fighting to keep it in the same lane when I get off it and feels so much safer now . The 4-wheel drum brakes are a bit of a concern though . At 130+ mph they tend to vib_ra_t_e 😬 a little .
How are you progressing with the junka .... you better get that thing cranking mate , cause I am comming to get ya !! Only kidding mate .... looking forward to catching up at Portland . Take care dude .

Boostn · 16 Feb 2008, 5:07 pm

The new shop is awesome but chewing up all my time, and by the looks of it mostl of 2008.
We have been working 7 days a week trying to get a few cars ready for Portland.
The Junka will not be there and is WAY off and in more than just a few pieces.
I must look after the customers first so that means I miss out.
I hope to get it together for Warwick and make it up for a race or two.
See you at Portland.

Dak-A-Tak · 17 Feb 2008, 1:45 pm

Man !! Great work Wayne ! We are all mad ? the time and effort for a sport that is over that quick !
Once you work out that clutch and start line and maybe a line lock for burnout (helps let clutch to lock up becouse tyre's are gripping on sticky track ) those 9's will come .
Will be good to catch up at Portland . I will bring Warwick dvd's down for you .
Again great work mate !
Nick , put that junka together !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hypo-vw · 17 Feb 2008, 7:17 pm

Dak-A-Tak wrote:Nick , put that junka together !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Pete , I really didn't get it together on the night . I ran the first 2 runs thinking I was on high boost , but since I changed the plumbing to the wastegate the boost controller works now in reverse . I realised this and got so excited after running 10.5secs on low boost that a rush of blood to the head made me try a 3rd gear burnout instead of 2nd for the 3rd run . My method of thinking was that I really needed to get some heat into those back tyres to get grip with the extra power on high boost . All it did was slip the clutch and overheat it , hence the lack of grip in 3rd and 4th gear . In the last run I launched the oval harder than I ever had previously , I dont know what rpm's I was using but the shift light was on and it was set at 7500rpm . As it launched it immediately came on boost very strong and really did catch me by surprise . I held 1st gear way too long . Looking forward to Portland and looking forward to catching up with you once again .

AND I WILL SECOND THAT PETE !! NICK , GET THE JUNKA TOGETHER !!
come on mate , you have 4 whole days ......and nights !!

hypo-vw · 8 Sep 2010, 1:26 am

after gathering parts for two and a half years, I am reassembling my turbo oval for Warwick 2010.
The new engine combo is a VW Type-4 2868ml turbo injected engine using a new billet 82mm stroker chev journal crank, a new set of Pauter X-beam 5.5" conrods, 105.5mm chev pistons with type-4 cylinders, straight-cut steel gear set, WPVW turbo grind cam, Pauter pro-series type-4 end port race heads 53x41, Pauter 1.4 roller rockers, Autocraft dual tapered pushrod set, T-60 Garrett turbo, 4x 1680cc methanol injectors, Aeromotive billet fuel pump & regulator, E-85 race fuel.
With this combination I hope to achieve close to 500bhp @ the wheels.

hypo-vw · 8 Sep 2010, 1:28 am

engine parts for the oval

hypo-vw · 8 Sep 2010, 1:39 am

engine parts for the oval

matberry · 8 Sep 2010, 8:51 am

Oh Wayne................😍😍😍

Good luck with the build mate.

Flintstones · 8 Sep 2010, 9:13 am

cant wait to see this up and running Wayne!!

Who made the billet crank?
Love the T4 heads

Cheers
D

humpty · 8 Sep 2010, 12:00 pm

You are insane...... Great to see!..... Looking forward to hearing/seeing the results in any way, shape or form...

johny rotten · 8 Sep 2010, 12:22 pm

all perfectly street legal of course 😵

johny rotten · 8 Sep 2010, 12:23 pm

Australia's best street car 😂😂😂😂😂

fish26 · 8 Sep 2010, 5:29 pm

Wayne, great work mate, should be a real beast.

66deluxe · 8 Sep 2010, 8:20 pm

HELL YEAH. Can't wait to see and here this beast run at Warwick. Wayne are the roller rockers the new ones Don has started doing runs of again? If they are and there self oilers ie drilled through to the roller tip be aware that some sets have broken already from normal use in mild engine builds And running heavy duty single springs.

dangerous · 8 Sep 2010, 8:51 pm

The "Pro Series" Pauter rockers that I have are a totally different arm
to the ones used in VW type one, and also VW type 4 heads.

Waynes will be the same as mine, since the rocker stud area for each cylinder,
is identical no matter what the bore spacing.

For Pauter arms to fail with a "mild engine build", and "heavy duty single springs", there
must be a porblem with arms seizing on shafts, or loss of valve control.
I'd like to hear the whole story...something does not add up.

Type 4 exhaust rockers do have a quite extreme offset,
when compared to almost any other engine type,
so this can contribute to failures with the roller tip design.

The 1.6 ratio arms I have, use over 620lbs of spring at full lift, and over 200 runs with 8400 limit,
and the 1.4 arms(exhaust) prior to this were used in speedway with zero failures.

BeetleBug · 8 Sep 2010, 9:13 pm

Hi from Norway/Europe and thank you for making this excellent project thread. I have just finished reading it 👍 My car is quite similar to yours, street driven, turbo, full weight, cage, T1 gearbox etc etc. Mine is a 67 and with a 2332 ccm engine, DTA ECU, E85 and 371 WHP @ 17 psi of boost. I`m using E85, no intercooler, nitrous, water/meth inj.

When you increased your HP you started having trouble with your trans and I noticed that you use a very hefty pressure plate in combination with a sinter clutch. Do you not think that it is your aggressive clutch that kills your transmission? Several guys are pushing well above 500hp on their T1 box and at least two cars are below 9 seconds; Hector Urias (US) and the CSP Ghia (Germany). Both of them using a "slip style" clutch to keep their tranny alive. I myselves use a Kep 2 in combination with a thin and lighter version of the black magic disc and so far it works fine. I tried it with a Kep1 but I could not get the break away torque I was looking for but and I had to shim the Kep2 to get it down to 190lbs.

Looking forward to more updates.

Best rgs
BB
Norway

hypo-vw · 9 Sep 2010, 8:30 am

Flintstones wrote:Who made the billet crank
Cheers
D

the crank was made for me by SCAT Enterprises in USA from a block of 4340 chromemoly billet. many thanks must go to big brother Rod for organising and bringing it back for me on his last trip

hypo-vw · 9 Sep 2010, 9:26 am

BeetleBug wrote:Do you not think that it is your aggressive clutch that kills your transmission?
Best rgs
BB
Norway

thanks for your imput and remarks BB. I do agree with you that a clutch set-up that is too harsh will destroy the tranny, however in my case my tranny failure was on the dyno under full load. I assume that the new mainshaft bearing that I used was not up for the task. The new german mainshaft bearing had a plastic cage that supported the rollers and this cage came out of the bearing, then pushing all rollers to one side and sending the mainshaft off-centre. after that all hell broke loose inside the tranny.... for the record my new clutch set-up incorporates a cinter-iron disc

hypo-vw · 9 Sep 2010, 7:51 pm

started to pre-assemble engine last night to check clearances and found my first problem. No-4 conrod does not clear the cam.
removed rods today, clearanced and sent to be re-balanced.

hypo-vw · 9 Sep 2010, 7:57 pm

also today some other goodies arrived.
pic 1- windage tray fitted to the type-4 engine case.
pic 2- turbosmart adaptors for the blow-off valve and wastegate.
pic 3- Aeromotive billet series 100 micron fuel filter. I have placed a 20cent coin next to the inlet to show the port size.

hypo-vw · 9 Sep 2010, 8:01 pm

pic 1- Aeromotive Billet series fuel pump. yes that is a 20cent coin beside it.
pic 2- Aeromotive billet series dual bypass regulator.
pic 3- conrods clearanced and balanced. bottom end being assembled tonight.

hypo-vw · 9 Sep 2010, 8:06 pm

pic 1- exhaust flanges for the Pauter pro-series heads.
pic 2- exhaust flanges for the Garrett T-60 turbo.
pic 3- assorted mandrel bends and flanges for the new turbo system.

hypo-vw · 9 Sep 2010, 8:13 pm

when I started with injection on my sports sedan and then the first build of the turbo oval , my injectors were 550cc .
Then the second build of the turbo oval came and we wanted more fuel to cope with the extra boost , so the injectors were increased to 780cc .
Now we plan to use E-85 race fuel and even more boost so we have chosen new 1680cc injectors from Powerflow. They have arrived today.

BeetleBug · 9 Sep 2010, 9:15 pm

Nice!

T4 engine and add a Holset HX50 or a 55 into the mix, 35 - 40 psi of boost, E85, 11.50 - 12.00 AF and 20 dg igniton at full boost and you`re looking at 550 - 600hp. This is the classic mix for the guys from Turbotown Sweden, all street cars with slicks when they have fun at the track. Better hang on!

Some of the Swedish cars here for you`re inspiration; pay especially attention to the brown and while split at 4.30: it managed a 9.3 pass with a lift in 3rd and 4th because he started to drift.

Best rgs
BB

Craig Torrens · 9 Sep 2010, 10:52 pm

WOW...this will be a weapon 👍

Flintstones · 10 Sep 2010, 9:16 am

Go the T4👍
what numbers are you hoping to get down the qtr Wayne?

fish26 · 11 Sep 2010, 8:56 pm

Wayne, now all you need are some modded Deutz cylinders that will not warp, let me know.

ben

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:03 pm

progress a little slow for Warwick but still confident that we will make it. The engine for my oval is finished ( progress pics will follow ) the transmission with all new ratios was assembled last night , or should I say this morning ( @2am ) and the axles brakes etc will be fitted tonight so that the engine & trans assembly can be fitted.

Ben has also been very busy on his new supercharged engine and Chris has the turbo Vee ready to fire-up . All 3 cars will go to the dyno on tuesday.

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:05 pm

measuring and calculating spring pressures

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:07 pm

match porting heads to the exhaust flanges and the inlet manifolds to the heads

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:10 pm

ports are polished for better flow

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:16 pm

heads assembled with the 53 x 41 titanium valves , chevy tripple springs & titanium retainers . to gain a compression ratio of 9.7:1 I have had machined a lower barrel shim of 3mm and an upper barrel shim of 6mm . At TDC the piston protrudes 2.5mm out of the top of the barrel . I have decided to go this way as in the past I have been experiencing abnormal wear at the bottom of the cylinders as the piston had been hanging too far out of the bottom of the barrel at BDC .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:19 pm

heads and barrels being fitted . The top barrel fins also had to be machined off for head clearance .

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:22 pm

pushrod tubes , dual tapered pushrods and 1.4 roller rockers fitted

hypo-vw · 23 Sep 2010, 1:24 pm

oringed inlet manifolds

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 23 Sep 2010, 6:11 pm

Looking Good Wayne!! Hopefully everything will fall into place for you this year without any drama's on the drive up at the meet or on the way home.

Will pick your brain over the weekend for some big type 4 info as well.....

hellbugged · 24 Sep 2010, 11:46 pm

so nice as always Wayne........great to see the updates, hit us with some more if you have the time please

good luck with the as per usual tight schedule

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:08 am

transmission assembly

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:12 am

transmission assembly with the new gear ratios . 3.44 ring & pinion , 3.3 / 1.93 / 1.59 / 1.30 gear ratios , ZF lsd , chromemoly axles

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:15 am

the turbo oval has been dragged from the race shed where it has been collecting dust for the past 2 years

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:18 am

engine is fitted to the WPVW turbo oval

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:22 am

started to manufactured new turbo system . new injector rails manufactured as the old ones were found to be too small

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:26 am

speedflow race fittings for the new plumbing . new front wide-5 disc brake conversion kit . turbo system plumbing

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:31 am

painting the turbo system plumbing and a new set of wheelie bars to try and keep the front down when using the new slicks

hypo-vw · 30 Sep 2010, 3:39 am

flywheel fitted to engine , today manufactured all the fuel lines , mounted fuel pumps and filters

Dasdubber · 30 Sep 2010, 6:50 am

Great stuff Wayne, make sure you drive safely on the way up given your late nights and lack of sleep!!
Can't wait to see the oval run again.
AL

vassy66T1 · 30 Sep 2010, 9:56 am

Great effort. Looking forward to the weekend.
Hope the last little gremlins leave you alone Wayne.

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 30 Sep 2010, 9:15 pm

Hope the trip to Warwick is a safe and uneventfull one.

Flintstones · 30 Sep 2010, 11:32 pm

Mammoth effort there Wayne, glad you got it finished in time.
Get someone to drive you up whilst your getting some shut-eye

All the best for the drags, looking forward to the results 👍
Cheers
D

Beetspeed · 3 Oct 2010, 4:13 am

Wayne,
I noticed (correct me if I'am wrong though) that you paired cylinders 1/1 and 3/4 together into the divided (twin-scroll) turbing housing.
That is not the most efficient pairing for twin-scroll set up's.
I really think more power could be made with 1/3 and 2/4 pairing in a TS turbo set-up.

Very nice fabrication nonetheless!

hypo-vw · 7 Oct 2010, 8:22 pm

WPVW turbo oval progress pics .
The turbo plumbing is painted and fitted to the engine . The clutch has been set up with 210lbs breakaway , and the engine is fitted to the oval . The new fibreglass rear guards have been painted and a bunch of mates help assemble the back end of the oval .

hypo-vw · 7 Oct 2010, 8:33 pm

got the oval finished and on the dyno at 10-30pm Wedneday night . after 4 hours of tuning and adjustments the oval produced 348bhp @ the wheels on just 15psi boost . An electrical breakdown at 6100rpm robbed us of the opportunity to put more boost into the oval tonight , but at 2-30am we should get it back to WPVW so that we can get home for a couple of hours sleep before we pack , wash the oval in the morning and drive to Warwick....

hypo-vw · 7 Oct 2010, 8:42 pm

arrived safely at Warwick QLD for the VW drags . The oval has been washed , but the final detailing is handled by Lana-rose Bolton ( Chris' no.1 fan)
Eager to run the oval but it is raining . Fortunately I organised a marque for TEAM WPVW

hypo-vw · 7 Oct 2010, 8:49 pm

I fitted the oval with a new set of ET drag slicks , and the oval produced quickest ET of the meet with a pass of 6.89secs @ 105mph . Not bad for first time out and now looking forward to putting more boost into the engine .
The engine was blowing a large amount of exhaust smoke due to a turbo oil drain issue that is easy for me to rectify. The smoke looked pretty ugly , but it was still faaassstt...

hellbugged · 7 Oct 2010, 11:07 pm

no intercooling or fan this time Wayne?.........just wondering it's the intention to stay that way for now?

hypo-vw · 8 Oct 2010, 7:32 am

hellbugged wrote:no intercooling or fan this time Wayne?.........just wondering it's the intention to stay that way for now?

with the new engine combo I am using E85 fuel which does not require me to use an intercooler or fan housing as it has similar cooling qualities to that of methanol , but without all the fuel system corrosion and gel that methanol has .
This is a temporary set-up for the oval as I have not had to destroy any of the original turbo system to complete this stage of my development and the original turbo set-up will be put back into the oval and used as a daily driver after I have made a decent 9 sec pass down the quarter and maybe contest the sport compact series next year .
The new engine / turbo system combo has been manufactured so that the entire unit can be removed from the oval without removal of any pipework or turbo . Only wiring and fuel hoses need to be disconnected . I also have enough parts for the engine to enable reassembly at any time .
Customers cars first for now........

hellbugged · 8 Oct 2010, 7:34 am

👍 cool 👍

hypo-vw · 8 Oct 2010, 10:03 am

BeetleBug · 8 Oct 2010, 4:18 pm

hypo-vw wrote:
hellbugged wrote:no intercooling or fan this time Wayne?.........just wondering it's the intention to stay that way for now?
with the new engine combo I am using E85 fuel which does not require me to use an intercooler or fan housing as it has similar cooling qualities to that of methanol , but without all the fuel system corrosion and gel that methanol has .
This is a temporary set-up for the oval as I have not had to destroy any of the original turbo system to complete this stage of my development and the original turbo set-up will be put back into the oval and used as a daily driver after I have made a decent 9 sec pass down the quarter and maybe contest the sport compact series next year .
The new engine / turbo system combo has been manufactured so that the entire unit can be removed from the oval without removal of any pipework or turbo . Only wiring and fuel hoses need to be disconnected . I also have enough parts for the engine to enable reassembly at any time .
Customers cars first for now........

E85 will not cool you`re charge temperature and when you get to the end of 3rd gear you will feel that the engine is starting to "loose" power. Do not be suprised if you log temperatures above 150 C after a 1/4 mile, depending of boost of course.

Best rgs
BB

hypo-vw · 9 Oct 2010, 9:25 am

video of the WPVW turbo oval vs Vintage Veedub at Warwick VW drags 2010

70Turbobug · 9 Jan 2011, 10:35 pm

Fantastic car!! It took me a while to read through everything! I love it! Truely Inspiring as I am in the process of building a turbo type 4 aswell. Which cylinders are running now?

hypo-vw · 26 Feb 2011, 9:24 am

70Turbobug wrote:Which cylinders are running now?

I am currently running cast iron cylinders with 105.5mm (4.155") Manley high-top chev pistons , and I have machined the top of the pistons down to my required height .

hypo-vw · 1 Mar 2011, 7:26 pm

well preparation for Portland all seemed to go to plan.... I drained the E85 fuel from the oval and changed to methanol race fuel . A few adjustments on the microtec and a short drive up and down the street proved very hard to gain traction .
4 days before we leave for Portland I put the oval on the dyno and find that we couldn't get a clean run because the clutch started to slip at approx 400bhp @ the wheels .
The engine is removed by my father Allan on the Wednesday afternoon and the clutch is replaced . That night I connect a staging limiter which is wired into the microtec ECU and test it . I can hold the staging button on and have preset a retard of 15 degrees in the timing and added fuel so that the oval sits stationary at 5000rpm on full throttle with 3psi boost .

It is not until we get to Portland that I find something seriously wrong with my engine tune . The oval will only run on number 1 & 2 cylinders and is not working on 3 & 4 . I change the spark plugs , the ignition leads , the distributor cap and rotor . No success !! I remove the injectors and they are working , I remove the leads from the distributor cap and they are sparking , I check for cylinder compression and it is ok . Still no success !!
I remove the collar in the distributor for the electronic ignition and it falls apart .... 4 tiny magnets laying in the bottom of the distributor . I retrieve the magnets and that night sit down reassembling and glueing the magnets back into place . At this point in time I think I have found the problem .... but after fitting the collar the next morning , find that it is still the same . I then find that the engine runs on number 2 & 4 cylinders but not 1 & 3 . I borrow a distributor from Henry Spicak (many thanks for your generous offer Henry) but find his distributor is too large in diameter for my engine ancillarys .
At this point in time I give up and help Ben ford in the WPVW supercharged bug for the rest of the weekend .

I have removed my microtec ECU and sent it for testing and repairs .... I would have to assume that I have damaged one of the internal drivers when I connected the staging limiter.... will keep you imformed of results .

I have entered the WPVW turbo oval in both the Day of the drags and the sport compact series . The Compak Attack is April 9 @ WSID , the weekend after Day of the Drags ....

Craig Torrens · 1 Mar 2011, 8:02 pm

thats a bummer Wayne 👎

Beetspeed · 1 Mar 2011, 8:58 pm

Yeah indeed! Maybe its a good moment to consider DIS ignition?
Maybe the microtec ecu can also control spark or can be expanded to be able to do so?

hypo-vw · 1 Mar 2011, 9:57 pm

Beetspeed wrote:Maybe the microtec ecu can also control spark or can be expanded to be able to do so?

My microtec ECU is a fuel / ignition management . It not only controls the fuel mixtures under all driving conditions but also the ignition . It is also equiped with map sensor so that ignition retard under boost is also programmed in . The distributor shaft is locked (no advance) , the electronic ignition is purely a magnetic pulse pickup that sends a signal to the ECU which in turn sends a signal to an external ignitor to trigger the ignition coil .
All ignition timing settings are performed ONLY on the dyno and should not be tampered with thereafter . This has been a extremely reliable system since 2002 and has never let me down ...... till I tried to connect the staging limiter last week .

2443TT · 1 Mar 2011, 10:22 pm

Many hall effect sensors will only trigger from a north or south magnetic pole. So if you glued in two of the magnets the wrong way around, the result would be that you would only get 2 ignition pulses. I used to use a magnetic distributor based trigger as well and had a simular issue when the whole thing came part and the magnets decided to jump to the nearest metal...

My current crank/cam reference/trigger system works with no problems so far and has the advantage that movement in the distrubutor drive gear will not cause even the slightest variation in ignition timing. Though if I were to do the setup again, it is just as easy to put the sync sensor in a rocker cover, and have it trigger from the adjustment screw on a rocker arm. The result being 2 triggers on the crank, and 1 from the rocker every 720 degrees of crank rotation.

Depending on how the microtec is configured you can still drive a single coil through a distributor/MSD if you want. Or run twin coil waste spark, or 4 coil... whatever does it for you.

Also it sounds like your launch control isnt working right, possibly because you were down 2 cylinders though.... The last time I played with an MSD 2 step and an ignition retard lauch control I used a -30 degree correction to the ignition map that would only trigger above 4000 rpm (RPM activated outout from the ecu). It would then add 15% fuel and retard the ignition. The result was it would rev quickly to 4000 RPM, retard ignition from 4000-4500 where the 2 step kicked in, and have 20psi by the time it was there. The advantage of the first rpm activated switch was that the immediate faster engine speed meant the anti-lag reacted faster. Useful if you were trying to stage quickly on a drag strip.

So thats my 2 cents...

hypo-vw · 2 Mar 2011, 7:47 am

2443TT wrote:Many hall effect sensors will only trigger from a north or south magnetic pole. So if you glued in two of the magnets the wrong way around, the result would be that you would only get 2 ignition pulses. I used to use a magnetic distributor based trigger as well and had a simular issue when the whole thing came part and the magnets decided to jump to the nearest metal...

you are right , when I removed the collar and the magnets fell out I retrieved them and reassembled them in the pits with all magnets repelling each other . Fitted the collar and the engine would not fire at all . That night sat down and glued all magnets into the collar in the opposite direction (with all magnets attracting) and the next morning it fired straight away .

To add to this , I have since returned to the WPVW workshop I have fitted a new electronic ignition , new ignitor , checked and clean all connections & earths ....Still ran on 2 cylinders !! I should know by thursday the results of my ECU testing ....

hypo-vw · 23 Jun 2011, 11:14 pm

well , after much testing and trying new components I couldn't imagine having an internal engine issue which was causing the engine to misfire and run on 2 cylinders only .
The engine is fresh , appeared to go well at Warwick (6.89@105mph) , was just supposed to service the turbo and go racing again , but not so !!
After removing the rocker covers to check the tappets ( which was done after running at Warwick also ) I find excessive tappet clearance at most rockers , not measured in thou , measured in millimiters .
The camshaft and lifters have had a major dispute with each other sending metal all through the new engine .....

hypo-vw · 23 Jun 2011, 11:17 pm

I am shocked when I remove the sump plate and check the magnet

hypo-vw · 23 Jun 2011, 11:22 pm

the new billet scat crank has suffered surface damage , all the bearings are stuffed , cam and lifters are the worst I have ever seen , but the top-end is fine....

hypo-vw · 23 Jun 2011, 11:28 pm

crank surface damage was not as bad as I had first thought and linished ok , all parts are thoroughly washed in preparation for assembly .
Trying to make it to the nastalgia drags in a couple of weeks....

hypo-vw · 23 Jun 2011, 11:32 pm

heads are thoroughly checked , valves and seats are refaced .
Engine assembly starts again.....

hellbugged · 24 Jun 2011, 6:24 am

sheez Wayne, not having much of a run with this one for the last few outings........hope it turns around this time and can't wait to see the time slips!

GOOD LUCK

mactaylor · 24 Jun 2011, 7:50 am

did you find out why the cam and lifters had such a bad reaction?

matberry · 24 Jun 2011, 9:09 am

Wayne, that cam has got to be the worst seen for such low miles!!!

Have you a Scat cam to go with the Lubealobe lifters?

What was the brand of components that died?

Good luck this time round with this awesome engine.

tassupervee · 25 Jun 2011, 10:18 pm

Wayne
Microtec's are a good and affordable entry level ECU, built down to a cost and easy to tune quickly. But are very short on features you'd like/need, like a decent configurable launch control, detonation sensing, closed loop boost control, fully variable water injection and anti-lag to name just a few useful ones. Without having to add funky electronic boxes to mess with your ECU's head!
All these features are available for around $1200 and dont require an Autronic or Motech sticker on the box to justify doubling the price!
Add traction control to that if you like to get funky. Come to think of it, 400 RWHP + in a Kraut pretty much demands it.
I have much the same power installed into a turbocharghed Nissan Navara flat tray 2wd ute and thats a handfull enough at probably 500+ kilos more in weight.
Secondly, id very closely consider moving towards removing the distributer altogether and using a simple and reliable crank trigger CAS setup.
You could easily attach a simple 60-2 trigger wheel and bracket a hall trigger to enable wasted spark edis. Hall type triggers are simple to attach, cheap and reliable. OH yes, no pesky magnets to come loose and ruin your day.
Going to full sequential injector triggering might be useful for really smooth low rev road manners and street cred at the local chew and spew but for mine, either bank or batch fired injectors will work just fine where you need it.
Hyundai Excell dual output coils, virtually nothing from a wreck and a Bosch 200 dual channel trigger will provide enough spark power to blow your frikken hand off! THIS I can assure you!

My 2 bobs! Cheers and great results so far.

l8r
E

matberry · 25 Jun 2011, 10:39 pm

All that for $1200. of which ECU do you speak?

tassupervee · 25 Jun 2011, 10:51 pm

Adaptronic.
Im using a 420c. Now Superceded with the 440/Select
Is what im using. Seriously happy with it. All Australian designed and built.
Should not that these ECU's come with a clean mind. S need to be setup from scratch but the builders are very motivated and helpful.
No, i dont sell them!!!!😂
Def nothing wrong with Microtech's, Just limited is all and Wayne is playing in the deep end!

Cheers
E

Beetspeed · 25 Jun 2011, 11:05 pm

Wayne, if you don't mind me asking: what duration did the damaged cam have at 0.050" lift?

2443TT · 26 Jun 2011, 10:54 am

I had the same thing happen to the scat cam I was running in a 2332 turbo motor a few years ago. No radical spring pressures either, scat cam, scat lifters. Lasted less than 2000km.

I went for the aircooled.net hardweld cam and hardweld lube-a-lifter setup with the new engine.

Some say modern oils are to blame for this, but im more inclined to think its poor quality metal, along with incorrect machining processes. The result is an incorrect radius on the cam and lifters, so the lifter doesnt spin. So all the load is caried on one spot on the lifter until the two parts begin to eat each other.

dejan · 30 Jun 2011, 3:18 am

Not very hard springs of valves for high rpm to spend cam and lifters

hypo-vw · 30 Jun 2011, 6:43 pm

mactaylor wrote:did you find out why the cam and lifters had such a bad reaction?

there are no certainties with this type of failure , however I have in my mind a combination of possibilities that may have caused this to happen .
1- I have reused my turbo grind cam that I had machined at Surecam with new camfollowers that I purchased from European Automotive some time ago . Maybe incomatible materials , however I have used these camfollowers in the past with great success .
2- I am running K800 chevy tripple springs with 180lb @ the seat and a whopping 415lb over the nose of the cam with the Pauter 1.4 roller rockers . Maybe too much spring pressure for a flat tappet cam .
3- I am using Mobil 1 engine oil and this oil may be far too low in the zinc content to protect the cam and lifters .

Or possibly a combination of all 3 .... I have rebuilt the engine with 138lb @ the seat , I have run it once at WSID after a dyno session of 405bhp @ the wheels and destroyed the clutch . The engine is coming back out next week , will be disassembled to check internals in preparation for Warwick .

rose · 30 Jun 2011, 9:12 pm

Maybe you could try Valvoline Engine oil

Valvoline VR1 Racing 10W/40
Mineral racing oil
High in zinc, enhances power & reduces friction

mactaylor · 1 Jul 2011, 1:15 am

thanks wayne, 405 sounds fun!

tassupervee · 1 Jul 2011, 7:36 pm

That kind of cam and lifter damage is very often started from the engines initial run from a new build. The damage gets done almost immediately and will go downhill very quickly from there once the cam lobe and lifter face are pitted/spalled.

Cam and follower break in is the ONLY thing I ever consider when "runing in" a new engine. Nothing else. If I build an engine with an existing cam/follower package then any formal running in does NOT happen at all apart from some early oil and filter changes.

The initial first few minutes is absolutely CRUCIAL to the life of new/re-coed cam lobe and follower and is almost universally overlooked especially considering that oiling to VW cams and lifters is a bit streaky at best of times.
A new cam/lifter combination should never be initially broken in with heavy multiple springs fitted. Just a single light spring is sufficient. They need to be run at elevated rpm for a good 10 minutes initially to ensure enough oil is splashed around in there and that important first settling in occurs as quickly as possible.

L8r
E

dejan · 2 Jul 2011, 6:22 am

I would go on MOTUL 300V competition 15W-50.
Synthetic oil with very stable characteristics of the heat as you need for air cooling.

fish26 · 2 Jul 2011, 1:42 pm

A combination of all three instances is very likely, Tool Steel or Composite Lifters will solve the problem as well as Bradd Penn Racing Oil Grade 1, with no need for break IN with these lifters, if you really want to, Bradd Penn Break In SAE30. Nothing else will do.
405hp.............awesome work Wayne

vlad01 · 4 Jul 2011, 7:44 pm

I heard joe gibbs racing oil is pretty good.

hypo-vw · 5 Jul 2011, 2:12 pm

after many hours of preparation , I got the oval to Day of the drags 2011 at WSID . It was not a successful meeting for me as the clutch fryed on the first run and it ran lean on methanol and did some engine damage .

The burnout was really strong and the car felt great , but the clutch slipped straight out of the hole . I was doing 97mph @ half track and then got off it , crossing the line at 12.37@ 87mph .
I am really sure that the engine used more fuel than the 2litre surge tank could supply , so I have now purchased a new fuel cell . I will now remove the oval beetle fuel tank , Holley blue lift pump , surge tank , filter and all accossiated lines , and will now pull fuel directly from the aluminum 10 litre cell .
Here is some video footage

hypo-vw · 8 Aug 2011, 10:50 pm

after running at WSID , I have investigated the fuel surge problem and it would seem that a $20 fuel filter has cost me an engine 😬 I have then removed the engine from my oval and stripped it down for inspection .

the spark plugs show an extremely lean mixture and heat blistering

I had fitted the areomotive A1000 fuel pump & stainless steel 100 micron fuel filter with 5/8" diameter lines to the injection rails , but a T4 transporter EFI fuel filter between the fuel tank and lift pump for the surge tank has had a reaction to the methanol and blocked the filter . The paper cartridge filter reacted with the methanol making the paper swell and block the fuel supply .....

hypo-vw · 8 Aug 2011, 11:00 pm

the engine is removed once again .

a large piece of ringland is found in the combustion chamber of no.4 cylinder

No.4 piston has suffered massive heat damage

hypo-vw · 8 Aug 2011, 11:10 pm

all of the other pistons also suffered heat damage and grabbed the bores

I have ordered new 4.125" pistons , rings & pins / new 103mm barrels that I will have bored to suit the pistons / and new type-1 camfollowers from Pauter . I am going to sleeve the lifter bores to suit type-1 lifters this time

Stanley · 9 Aug 2011, 9:30 am

Wow...that's a damn shame Wayne. I can feel your pain.
What brand pistons and rings were you running?

hypo-vw · 9 Aug 2011, 10:43 pm

Stanley wrote:What brand pistons and rings were you running?

I was running Manley Forged pistons from a 400ci chevy +0.030" ( 4.155" or 105.5mm ) and the rings were total seal . This time I have been able to locate a set of CP Forged racing pistons for a 400ci chevy ( 4.125" or 104.75mm ) with a pin height for 6" rods . This is the same pin height that I was using , so will make my engine set-up much easier for me and my barrels will be a little thicker in the spigot for better support .

venFun10 · 10 Aug 2011, 9:30 pm

mate i feel sorry for you. it must suck having done so much work and have nice parts to just wreck them like this. you certainly have had a lot of bad luck with this nice car of yours. best of luck.

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 12 Aug 2011, 2:14 pm

At least it happened when it did mate and not first run at Warwick!! Lot closer to home base down there if you look at it that way....

hypo-vw · 5 Sep 2011, 11:31 pm

well all of my new engine parts have arrived and the preparation & assembly will begin tomorrow evening . I purchased a new set of CP forged 4.125" (104.75mm) 400 chevy pistons & total seal rings . These are lumpy top pistons & I have machined the top down to gain the compression ratio that I wanted

hypo-vw · 5 Sep 2011, 11:44 pm

I have had camfollower trouble in the recent past . I had purchased a set of type-4 racing lifters from European motorworks and they failed after the first race meeting at Warwick 2010 . I then purchased a set of Scat lube-a-lobe type-4 lifters from my brother Rod and they did 2 x 200m runs up the street and back , then 1 quarter mile pass and they were about to fail again showing signs of defects , so I have now purchased a set of Udo Becker 56gm tool-steel racing lifters . I am very confident that these lifters will cope easily with the loads thrust upon them from my valve-train
I have now had manufactured from phospherous-bronze , a set of sleeves for my lifter bores & had them installed to suit type-1 lifters . Then the lifter bores are machined for lobe to lifter clearance

hypo-vw · 5 Sep 2011, 11:53 pm

I have purchased a new Bugpack super-duty oil pump & I will now run an outlet cover to an external oil filter
All of the lifter bores are machined and I have also had the engine case line-bored to ensure a perfect tunnel . The engine case is ready for final wash prior to assembly now

Beetspeed · 6 Sep 2011, 5:55 am

Why not pinned center main? There has been some past movement at the surface if I see it correctly.

hypo-vw · 6 Sep 2011, 8:28 am

Beetspeed wrote:Why not pinned center main? There has been some past movement at the surface if I see it correctly.

I believe that the movement was from a not so perfect tunnel . If you see the last pics the case has now been line-bored . The centre main bearing is factory pinned on each side as you would know , and with the correct bearing nip and good oil pressure so that the main journel does not touch the bearing , the bearings should not move . I also found faults with my oil pump and this is why it also is being replaced .

Beetspeed · 6 Sep 2011, 6:32 pm

Its indeed a matter of if you believe there is movement from 86mm stroke cranks and/or 200+ hp cars or not, as no-one of us can actually see it happening.
I tend to look at the 911 cases which are also pinned, even on each main.
You car does not see that many miles though and the align bore looks very nice.
Love the silicon-bronze bushings and the type 1 - wider foot - lifters are the way to goo too 👍

Very curieus what she will do after the upgrade, on the dyno and the strip, keep us posted!

hypo-vw · 14 Sep 2011, 7:24 pm

new Moroso oil filter has arrived(pictured with a dollar coin to show the 3/4" oil ports) , along with the Aeroflow oil line fittings
also found a crack in my engine case near a headstud , so I have had the engine case welded to repair it . I love type-4 aluminum cases !!

LOWBUG · 14 Sep 2011, 7:30 pm

Pick up your change Wayne, the way your spending money you'll need it. lol

hypo-vw · 14 Sep 2011, 7:36 pm

my new fuel cell has arrived . I have manufactured a fuel distribution block that pulls the methanol from 2x -10 fittings welded on the fuel cell and supplys methanol to the fuel pump via a -12 fitting and hose

Super1302 · 15 Sep 2011, 6:38 pm

great work Wayne.
reckon you could get a bit more porting out of those heads. lol

hypo-vw · 20 Sep 2011, 10:42 am

more engine progress on the WPVW turbo oval

hypo-vw · 20 Sep 2011, 10:45 am

more engine progress . pistons have been ceramic coated on the top and silicon coated on the skirts

hypo-vw · 20 Sep 2011, 10:49 am

more engine progress . pistons are installed , piston rings are machined for correct end-gap and barrels fitted

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 20 Sep 2011, 12:09 pm

Nothing better on a slow day at work than to look at big type 4 engine porn!!

Thanks Wayne!! Keep the pics coming!!

hypo-vw · 20 Sep 2011, 8:42 pm

more engine progress on my turbo oval . The engine assembly is complete and the turbo system will now be re-installed

venFun10 · 21 Sep 2011, 11:18 am

some very nice engine parts there

hypo-vw · 21 Sep 2011, 12:56 pm

more engine progress with the WPVW turbo oval . engine sealed and turbo pipes fitted , the 1700cc injectors have been serviced , more fuel and oil fittings arrive , injectors installed and new stainless steel braided fuel hoses manufactured

hypo-vw · 21 Sep 2011, 1:04 pm

the 2827ml turbo-injected alcohol engine is ready for installation

vassy66T1 · 21 Sep 2011, 5:50 pm

Looks the goods Wayne!!

Hope the rest of your prep goes smoothly

Flintstones · 21 Sep 2011, 9:35 pm

hypo-vw wrote:the 2827ml turbo-injected alcohol engine is ready for installation

no fan?!!🙅
Seriously though, I'm looking forward to the dyno figures and run times

Cheers
D

nbturbo · 21 Sep 2011, 10:28 pm

You have used all the best stuff for that rebuild.The intake manifolds look like good castings-there is enough meat around the injector castings to weld in those ally pockets like I have used.

Stanley · 22 Sep 2011, 7:16 am

top stuff wayne....how much boost?

hypo-vw · 25 Sep 2011, 9:32 am

the WPVW turbo oval is pushed from the race shed , taken off its wheel dollys and the first job is to upgrade the fuel supply to the engine .
The original fuel tank is removed and a polished alloy fuel cell fitted in its place with all new -12 hoses

hypo-vw · 25 Sep 2011, 9:37 am

the engine is fitted and fired-up , all sounds great . Dyno session monday afternoon

nbturbo · 25 Sep 2011, 7:05 pm

As usual Wayne-top stuff.Where are you blokes getting the Aeromotive fuel stuff from.I need to get a pump and filter.

matberry · 25 Sep 2011, 7:51 pm

Awsome stuff Wayne, looking forward to seeing all the new work on the weekend. Hope the dyno goes well tomorrow. See ya at Warwick. 🙂

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 26 Sep 2011, 4:34 pm

Looks awesome mate!! It's monday arfternoon and I hope all is going well!! Fingers crossed for you guys....

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2011, 9:17 am

I didnt get to the dyno yesterday as I decided to fit an alternator to my oval and also fit additional braided hoses to the fuel return line and breather . The rest of the evening was spent finishing Chris Boltons' turbo engine for his bug . I left the shop at 2-05am this morning with his engine ready to be installed today

Both my turbo oval and Chris Boltons turbo bug will be on the dyno this afternoon

hypo-vw · 27 Sep 2011, 10:14 pm

I took the WPVW turbo oval to the dyno this afternoon . Could only put 18psi boost into the 2827ml type-4 engine as the 1700cc injectors max-out .

At 18psi the engine made 443bhp @ the wheels and a massive 1750lbs tractive effort .

attached is a dyno sheet of 430bhp and 1700lbs of tractive effort on 16psi boost from a previous run

all good with the oval and ready for Warwick

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 27 Sep 2011, 11:01 pm

Type 4 torque ftw!!! That'll pull the bend out of a river!! Man that is going to be a lot of fun to drive!!

Congrats Wayne!! Your dedication and persistence is paying off!! Cannot wait to see it in action!!!!!

matberry · 27 Sep 2011, 11:52 pm

Wow, awsome work Wayne, see up at Warwick

dangerous · 28 Sep 2011, 7:00 am

hypo-vw wrote:I took the WPVW turbo oval to the dyno this afternoon . Could only put 18psi boost into the 2827ml type-4 engine as the 1700cc injectors max-out .

At 18psi the engine made 443bhp @ the wheels and a massive 1750lbs tractive effort .

attached is a dyno sheet of 430bhp and 1700lbs of tractive effort on 16psi boost from a previous run

all good with the oval and ready for Warwick

Awesome power Wayne, that should get you close to the 5's @120+mph!

LOWBUG · 28 Sep 2011, 11:38 am

Yehaaaaaa.

Is that on methonal

venFun10 · 28 Sep 2011, 1:39 pm

best of luck this time mate

20bkombi · 28 Sep 2011, 2:29 pm

Wow Wayne, that fantastic.
I want one 🙂

Thanks for the build up dates.

Flintstones · 28 Sep 2011, 3:31 pm

Whoa!! huge numbers, can't wait to see what times you end up running.

Out of interest, how much boost were you planning with this motor? (given the right injectors are fitted)
Also after Warrick, are you looking to upgrade the box?

Well done 👍👍
Cheers
D

hypo-vw · 28 Sep 2011, 8:16 pm

LOWBUG wrote:Yehaaaaaa.

Is that on methonal

Yes Chris , it is on methanol this year

hypo-vw · 28 Sep 2011, 8:27 pm

Flintstones wrote:Out of interest, how much boost were you planning with this motor? (given the right injectors are fitted)
Also after Warrick, are you looking to upgrade the box?

I was seriously planning to run up to 28psi boost , which should show figures around 550+bhp . I will change the injectors and ignition system down the track and do some more testing . Not planning on upgrading the tranny after Warwick though , it has been fairly reliable since fitting the 3.44 ring & pinion

Dasdubber · 28 Sep 2011, 9:57 pm

Great stuff Wayne - here is hoping for a trouble free weekend (and a safe trip there and back) - can't wait to see the oval run some good numbers at Warwick.
Al

pigman · 1 Oct 2011, 10:52 pm

l like the set up hope you dont take it the wrong way but your cross over pipe needs some work to help with better flow

vassy66T1 · 2 Oct 2011, 7:24 pm

I am sure Wayne will put up figures here, but a big congrats.

Fastest MPH and lowest ET for the Warwick Weekend. 👍

Stanley · 2 Oct 2011, 7:33 pm

and some white knuckle runs. Well done mate. Top effort with all the WPVW cars

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 2 Oct 2011, 8:43 pm

This thing just got faster and faster each run!! Looked like you were having a ball Wayne!!

dangerous · 3 Oct 2011, 6:57 am

Congrats on the fastest numbers Wayne, it was a reward for you for all that effort!

LOWBUG · 3 Oct 2011, 6:23 pm

Yeh last few runs had him working for it, it was a handfull. Nice work Wayne

rose · 3 Oct 2011, 6:28 pm

well done with all the effort prior to and freighting a truck load of cars up to drag race and have lots of fast runs for a great show for us all

Ian liked the Wayne Penrose (partridge family bus)😂😂 looks like you guys where having plenty of fun in it on the way home.

here is one of his runs from the week end
http://www.youtube.com/user/avwnut#p/u/0/qXTSgNsM-GU

Boostn · 3 Oct 2011, 6:42 pm

Congratulations Wayne

1303Steve · 3 Oct 2011, 7:18 pm

Hi

Well done Wayne, how nice does the methanol smell.

Steve

hypo-vw · 6 Oct 2011, 9:41 pm

well after 3 months of preparation , including the intense last 3 weeks of 7 days a week 16 to 17 hours a day , all of the WPVW cars went really well .

many thanks must go to the members of team WPVW for all their effort and assistance in preparing 5 cars for this event . A special thanks must go to my father Allan ( poppy Penrose ) for his immense support and for all the assistance in machining engine parts for me . Without the support of my team these cars would not have made it to Warwick

My turbo oval ran 6.33@113mph , Chris Bolton in his new turbo bug ran 6.71@101mph , Ben Ford in his supercharged bug ran a new PB of 7.04@100.3mph , Joe Tanti in the WPVW sports sedan ran 8.5@82mph and Cindy Hurst raced my turbo cabriolet as her turbo beetle did not get finished for this event . Cindy ran a 10.5@65mph

I managed to hire a car transporter for all 5 of our cars which really took the stress away of towing all 5 vehicles to QLD and back . I then hired a 25 seater mini bus which was just awesome as team members that had been up working all of those late nights were able to get some well deserved sleep on the trip up there

Many thanks goes to Craig and his wife Colleen for putting on the event once again , many thanks go to the track organisers and members of the Warwick Drag Racing Club for all their efforts , and many thanks go to all competitors and spectators because without you , we just dont have an event

a now just for a tease , I am laying on a beach outside the Sofitel on Denaru Island , Fiji where I have bought my daughter Brittany for her first overseas trip . I am laying on the beach planning VWMA drags at WSID in february 2012 , see you all there . Wayne

PS will put pics up of Warwick when we get back

venFun10 · 7 Oct 2011, 10:49 am

good on you mate
you made all those parts work well
good job

Flintstones · 7 Oct 2011, 11:44 am

Great result Wayne and team.👍
Am looking forward to the vids

Cheers
D

hypo-vw · 10 Oct 2011, 10:48 pm

on the dyno in preparation for Warwick VW drags 2011

hypo-vw · 11 Oct 2011, 10:08 am

this is the timeslip of my best pass at the Warwick 2011 VW drags . I ran a 6.33 @ 113.07mph on this pass ( race number 3120 )

LOWBUG · 11 Oct 2011, 10:57 am

Nice 60 footer

hypo-vw · 11 Oct 2011, 12:45 pm

LOWBUG wrote:Nice 60 footer

thanks Chris , my best 60 footer so far is 1.38 . Cant wait to see your bug run at WSID . Good luck with it , Wayne

hypo-vw · 20 Oct 2011, 7:34 pm

a compilation of vids of my turbo oval running at Warwick 2011 VW drags . After setting fastest ET and MPH for the event of 6.33@113mph , out of respect for other racers I packed the oval away as oil was leaking from no-2 inlet pushrod tube onto the exhaust and I didn't want to put oil down on the track .....

hypo-vw · 30 Nov 2011, 9:03 pm

well I didn't get to run my oval at WSID for the Rocket retro drags , even though I was entered .
I pulled the engine out on the wednesday night , replaced the clutch assembly as I was having clutch slip issues at Warwick , refitted the engine and got to the dyno on thursday morning .
I put the oval on the dyno , raised the static fuel pressure from 55psi to 87psi , re-adjusted the tune and all sounded good until I got greedy and raised the boost from 18psi to 25psi . The engine sounded awesome and strong but the clutch just didnt want to play .
At just over 400rwhp the clutch slipped repeatedly . At first we though it was turning the tyres on the rollers , but no visible smoke from the tyres .
I brought the oval back to WPVW and a short test drive confirmed that the clutch was not happy , so back out it will come soon . Will keep you posted on progress .

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:00 am

here are a couple of pics of my turbo oval in action . Many thanks go to Matt Sherwood for the pics

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:03 am

well after a great result at Warwick , I decided to pull the engine on the WPVW turbo oval to rectify a clutch slip issue which started to develope at Warwick .
I removed the engine to inspect the clutch and found much more than I had expected ......

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:12 am

the clutch had been slipping a little at Warwick , so I decided to replace the pressure plate prior to the dyno session . I replaced the stage 3 Kennedy pressure plate with a stage 4 3000lb plate . What I didnt realise was that the stage 3 pressure plate had badly distorted on the pressure plate shoe and it had worn the clutch plate tapered on the pressure plate side .
So when I installed the new pressure plate , only 18mm of surface area was contacting the pressure plate shoe , which is 38mm wide . I measured the thickness of the clutch plate and it was .5mm thicker on the inside than it was on the outside . This lack of surface contact caused the clutch to slip each time the oval tried to produce more than 400rwhp .

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:26 am

in preparation for WSID VW Showdown , I have removed the transmission and stripped it down for inspection . Great news !! I really cant find anything wrong , all bearings look great , so I reassemble the transmission with the only change being 3rd & 4th gear ratios .
I have now geared the oval to do 152mph & 8000rpm in 4th gear .

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:30 am

I have also discoved that the turbo has inhaled some debris which has damaged the compressor wheel . The T60-1 Garrett turbo is repairable , but I have decided that this is the best time to upsize .....
On the left is the old T60-1 turbo ( 1.00 exh & 60mm compressor wheel ) and on the right is the new T04Z roller bearing turbo for the oval ( 1.15 exh & 66mm compressor wheel )

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:37 am

the exhaust housing needed to be machined to match-port it to my exhaust manifold

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:40 am

I am also manufacturing a new crossover tube from the turbo to the intake plenums

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:42 am

the oval will now be fitted with a MSD-6A and also a MSD blaster2 ignition coil

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 12:55 am

I have also purchased a set of Bosch ID2000 injectors for the oval , to increase fuel flow to each cylinder under high boost .
The previous 1680cc injectors went onto max duty cycle at just 18psi boost with 55lbs fuel pressure . The new injectors will supply 2000cc of fuel at 55lbs , 2250cc of fuel at 65lbs and 2500cc of fuel at 75lbs etc
I am also manufacturing new fuel rails with -10 fittings . An 8mm bolt sits beside the rails to give you an idea of the size of the fittings

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 1:03 am

the crossover tube is finished and painted

the 14lb wastegate spring is replaced with a 17lb dual spring , this will allow me up to 34psi boost

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 1:11 am

the new intake is installed

vassy66T1 · 15 Feb 2012, 9:00 am

WOW 😎😎

Hope you are able to get on top of the clutch issue with even more power to get down to the ground

dragvw2180 · 15 Feb 2012, 11:43 am

Time for double disc setup, Mike McCarthy

dangerous · 15 Feb 2012, 3:04 pm

A stage 4 and black magic should be enough for 1000hp....well, perhaps not that much.
I am not a fan of those heavy discs, but once warm,
they have more holding power than any other material.

Make sure the extra thickness is not
causing the diafragm to go over centre.
When bolted down, the fingers should not be lower than level.
I have not seen one yet that did not need to be shimmed out from the FW.

Look forward to catching up again with you and your crew Wayne, in Sydney!

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 15 Feb 2012, 6:12 pm

Loving it Wayne!! 500hp atw?? More boost /bigger injectors look out!!

Flintstones · 15 Feb 2012, 10:21 pm

looks good Wayne,
any plans to get it on the dyno before hitting the showdown?

hypo-vw · 15 Feb 2012, 10:59 pm

Flintstones wrote:looks good Wayne,
any plans to get it on the dyno before hitting the showdown?

my cars dont go to the track unless they have been on the dyno and set up correctly first .....there is way too much at stake with an engine like this .
It has taken me over 25 years in the VW trade to progress to the stage that I am at now with my turbo type-4 engine and I would like to keep climbing the ladder of success slowly , and what I mean by success is , self satisfaction that I have achieved the highest level of performance with the equipment that I am using / developing .
Dyno session might be on saturday if I am satisfied that everything is ready to go .... if not it might be Monday afternoon . The plan is to raise the boost from 18psi to 28psi which should show figures in excess of 550rwhp .

dragvw2180 · 15 Feb 2012, 11:40 pm

Not trying to disagree with anyone but on my turbo car I ran a 2700 lb pressure plate with a Black Majic disc, was good until I crossed over the 425 hp mark, then slipped in 3rd gear . High rotating mass is tough on synchros , with the double Kennady setup I am running now it is virtually impossible to speed shift it. I ran the Tilton setup previously and with those thin discs it shifts like a stock disc but will NOT slip. I have just ordered the new RLR Rev6 setup and will give some feedback if anyone is interested after I make some passes with it. Mike McCarthy

BeetleBug · 16 Feb 2012, 7:03 am

Still no intercooler or water/NOS injection to cool the intake temperature? What temp do you see at the end of a run? I'm at the same HP level as you and use a Kep stage 2 with a thin (lighter) version of the black magic disc. Cold break away torque was set at 190lbs. It launches soft and easy but has enough grip in all gears, also on the dyno. I use a German flywheel.

Best rgs
BB

matberry · 16 Feb 2012, 7:50 am

Hi Wayne, awsome work as always.
All this clutch talk, so I may as well add my 2c. I'd call the tapered disc as a flexing flywheel, I'm sure it would have crossed your mind. Our clutch guy's have commented re Kenedy's specification compared with custom designed/built local product. Jim Berry (no relation) has over 40 years of engineering clutches and can supply a single disc setup that will handle well over 500 hp. He has designed and built single disc, 200mm clutches that held onto the turbo skyline touring cars from the nineties and many many more since. His speciality is a non distorting high clamp force with minimal pedal pressure.
Maybe give him a call.

hypo-vw · 16 Feb 2012, 9:11 am

matberry wrote:I'd call the tapered disc as a flexing flywheel

thanks for the imput everyone , I do enjoy reading others opinions and experiences as it is helpful information to all of us .
after measuring the clutch disc lining and finding it tapered a little over .5mm , I gave the disc to my father Allan who put it in his lathe to check and machine it . He found that the material on the flywheel side was perfectly straight and the material on the pressure plate side was badly worn tapered .
I then put a straight edge across the pressure plate shoe to find it grossly distorted due to excessive heat . I have been riding the clutch too hard and for too long when staging my oval with the staging brake . I will have to change my staging habits to be a lot easier on the clutch assembly .

hypo-vw · 19 Feb 2012, 11:20 pm

fuel rails are finished and polished , ready for installation .
hold down brackets are manufactured , polished and also installed

hypo-vw · 19 Feb 2012, 11:25 pm

the engine is fitted back into the oval and I had clearance issues with the blow-off valve . I then removed the cross-over tube and repositioned the blow-off valve at an angle to the right and now everything clears .
I then changed all the boost lines from the turbo to the wastegate with new stainless braided lines and Aeroflow fittings .
the MSD ignition control box and coil are installed and wired-up

hypo-vw · 19 Feb 2012, 11:29 pm

Cindy models the new 3 1/2" exhaust tubing , getting her hand right to the other end .
The turbo exhaust outlet is connected with the 3.5" mandrel bends and the ovals' engine is fired-up .
All sounds good for the dyno on Tuesday afternoon

hypo-vw · 19 Feb 2012, 11:30 pm

a couple more pics at the shop late on Sunday evening

humpty · 20 Feb 2012, 12:48 am

Insanely impressive stuff Wayne.... You guys on the east coast sure are pushing the creativity and development.... This weekend is gonna be a blast!

hypo-vw · 7 Mar 2012, 9:51 pm

well my turbo oval ran well at WSID VW Showdown 2012 taking out quickest ET & speed for the weekend with a pass of 10.13@139.70mph

After putting my oval on the dyno thursday afternoon I could not get it to make power and it had a high RPM misfire . The new MSD ignition was giving electrical interference with the microtec EFI ecu . Back to the WPVW workshop , remove the MSD and loom and reinstall the promaster coil ignition .
Friday morning back on the dyno and the oval will only make 380rwhp . This is 65rwhp less than the last race meeting at Warwick 2011 . I still ran my oval with a very fat , but safe tune and it went ok but I only made 1 full throttle pass as the air intake temps are far too high . I now have to do more homework with the air intake temps before running the Sydney Jamboree March 31 .

below are some pics from this event of my turbo oval

hypo-vw · 7 Mar 2012, 10:12 pm

big launch on my 10.13 run

hypo-vw · 8 Mar 2012, 5:49 pm

more oval pics .....I just love it !!

whathaveidone · 8 Mar 2012, 7:26 pm

front shot of burnout is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dak-A-Tak · 8 Mar 2012, 8:03 pm

Wayne ! Turbo is starting to look good to me !👍
The run you had with Rod was Tuff , cool , very close . You had a little trouble keeping straight , Left front wheel power standing first 3 gears , Then Rod broke out by 200's . That tuff race .
Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
Well done Wayne and crew .

hypo-vw · 9 Mar 2012, 7:26 am

Dak-A-Tak wrote:Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?

thanks Pete . Haven't looked into the power loss yet as I have been busy with customer work . Got back from WSID , drain fuel systems on all 3 cars and packed them away . I will have to drag the oval out early next week and go back to square one with it . Compression test , check for intake leaks etc , then manufacture a cold air intake duct to the turbo and I might even reinstall my air-water intercooler . I dont really want to carry the extra 20kg but the engines health is no.1 priority to me . I am looking into running 2 extra injectors at the intake of the turbo to spray methanol into the turbo at and above a preset boost level to cool the intake air charge . Will keep you posted on developments .
best 1/8 time at WSID was 6.59@111.74 compared to Warwick 2011 on a slippery surface 6.33@113 . 2 tenths faster would have put my oval into the 9sec category . Wayne

dangerous · 9 Mar 2012, 7:47 am

hypo-vw wrote:
Dak-A-Tak wrote:Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
thanks Pete . Haven't looked into the power loss yet as I have been busy with customer work . Got back from WSID , drain fuel systems on all 3 cars and packed them away . I will have to drag the oval out early next week and go back to square one with it . Compression test , check for intake leaks etc , then manufacture a cold air intake duct to the turbo and I might even reinstall my air-water intercooler . I dont really want to carry the extra 20kg but the engines health is no.1 priority to me . I am looking into running 2 extra injectors at the intake of the turbo to spray methanol into the turbo at and above a preset boost level to cool the intake air charge . Will keep you posted on developments .
best 1/8 time at WSID was 6.59@111.74 compared to Warwick 2011 on a slippery surface 6.33@113 . 2 tenths faster would have put my oval into the 9sec category . Wayne

Hi Wayne,
the addition of a single extra nozzle at the turbo OUTLET is a good way to cool the charge as it leaves the compressor.
I have seen the instant atomisation cool the pipe enough so that you wont need to add that extra 20kg.
It seems to work better than introducing the fuel before the compressor.
Jeff Watson did this to his little Sprite in the late nineties and it was the improvement he needed to get him from high eights to consistent low eights.

modnrod · 9 Mar 2012, 8:26 am

Jeff Watson did this to his little Sprite in the late nineties and it was the improvement he needed to get him from high eights to consistent low eights.

Damn that was a scary little hotrod......
😂

hypo-vw · 9 Mar 2012, 6:39 pm

dangerous wrote:the addition of a single extra nozzle at the turbo OUTLET is a good way to cool the charge as it leaves the compressor.
It seems to work better than introducing the fuel before the compressor

thanks Dave , I can see where this will work quite well . I will have discussions with a couple of dudes that are keeping tabs on what I am doing with my turbo engine and will keep you posted on developments .
Your input is very much appreciated as I am breaking new ground with type-4 performance and have to tread very carefully as the surface I proceed on is very thin and slippery , one wrong step and it will all come crashing down around me . Wayne🤪🤪

2443TT · 9 Mar 2012, 6:40 pm

Just curious about your MSD issues Wayne. What kind of plugs and plug leads were you using?

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 10 Mar 2012, 9:59 pm

I'm loving what you are doing Wayne!! Over the last few years you have had 2 steps forward and one step back but it seems of late each step is going that bit further in the right direction!! You are thinking outside the square( the type 1 square lol) by using a type 4 based engine to make some real nice hp!! An underrated engine to most but the potential of them is huge!! Certainly not cheap but neither is building a reliable type 1 based engine especially if it's going to run big boost!! Troy can testify to that!

Hopefully the power loss is something that is a simple fix!!

Governor · 10 Mar 2012, 10:17 pm

Nice car, great looking engine, how do you keep it cool or does it only get used for the 1/4?

hypo-vw · 12 Mar 2012, 12:20 am

Dak-A-Tak wrote:Wayne ! The run you had with Rod was Tuff , cool , very close . You had a little trouble keeping straight , Left front wheel power standing first 3 gears , Then Rod broke out by 200's . That tuff race .

here is video footage of that run Pete

hypo-vw · 12 Mar 2012, 12:28 am

2443TT wrote:Just curious about your MSD issues Wayne. What kind of plugs and plug leads were you using?

I am using resistor type plugs with good quality 8mm Eagle plug leads . The leads are not spiral wire core , so it confuses me as to why this is happeneing . A very reliable source tells me that the super high output ignition system will not work well with a distributor as there is a tendency for arching inside the cap and also crossfire , however I am using this system in Chris Boltons turbo bug with a distributor and it is sensational . I will talk to Microtec Aust regarding this and see if they have had past experiences with MSD interference

hypo-vw · 12 Mar 2012, 12:31 am

Black64 wrote:Nice car, great looking engine, how do you keep it cool or does it only get used for the 1/4?

thanks for your positive comments , this is my drag engine so I dont run cooling accessories . The alcohol fuel keeps it pretty cool . When driving my oval on the street , I have another type-4 engine with Porsche cooling fan and shroud .

humpty · 12 Mar 2012, 1:43 am

Believe it or not Wayne.... When I first fitted my MSD leads (which I made to suit), I had interference issues with the Megajolt system.... Originally I had the leads to 3 & 4 running along the intake runner with the sensor harness (none shielded 20g wires) there also.... Fixed the issue by rerouting the leads away from the sensor harness.... So I guess what I'm saying is.... Are the leads running near any other ignition or sensor harnesses?

Governor · 12 Mar 2012, 9:29 am

I would love to have this in my shed.
What times does it do with the other motor ?

2443TT · 12 Mar 2012, 10:39 am

humpty wrote:Believe it or not Wayne.... When I first fitted my MSD leads (which I made to suit), I had interference issues with the Megajolt system.... Originally I had the leads to 3 & 4 running along the intake runner with the sensor harness (none shielded 20g wires) there also.... Fixed the issue by rerouting the leads away from the sensor harness.... So I guess what I'm saying is.... Are the leads running near any other ignition or sensor harnesses?

Im with humpty here. Interference issue can be a major pain in the ass. Different ecu's behave and report errors differently too, so it can be tricky to diagnose.

Running the sensor harness seperate and shielded from all other wiring really helps eliminate issues considerably.

Also reluctor sensor triggering is more sensative to RF and high voltage spikes. Changing to a hall effect sensor which produces a clean 12V square wave output cures many evils. It fixed the issues I was having.

The only other thing Ive ever encountered was that a really good ignition system will amplify any earthing issues you have, so running at least 2 earths from the engine/tranny to the pan helps with that.

hypo-vw · 12 Mar 2012, 6:17 pm

thanks for the input guys , I think earthing issues could be eliminated as the engine and tranny are solid mounted to the chassis & body in my oval in 7 different locations .
I think my coil lead runs too close to the wiring loom ..... I will rectify this and reinstall the MSD before another dyno session next week

hypo-vw · 19 Mar 2012, 11:42 pm

hypo-vw wrote:I will rectify this and reinstall the MSD before another dyno session next week

well my dyno session on the oval might have to be put back a couple of days . tonight I put the oval back in the shop , removed the spark plugs , did a compression test and found No.4 cylinder down to just 25psi ....not good !! to add to this I had a visual look down each plug hole and found what I suspect is a cracked piston on No.2 cylinder .
I did fear that damage may have occured to the pistons and/or ringlands as at WSID I experienced what I now believe to be detonation on each run just before the finish line due to excessively high air intake temps . On the day I thought it might have been lifting a head but the engine shows no signs of leakage between the heads and barrels .
tonight I removed the engine and tomorrow night I will remove the heads & barrels for inspection

BeetleBug · 20 Mar 2012, 3:30 am

I hope you dont mind me asking but what intake temp do you see after a full run?

Best rgs
BB

dangerous · 20 Mar 2012, 7:43 am

Bummer Wayne.
I have been thinking about this a bit, and there may be an underlying factor.

Whilst I never had a chance to put a thermocouple in my blowers,
the Autorotor specs said there would be a temp rise of about 100 degrees C at 30psi.
A turbo should be less than this.

I had as much as 42psi and 10:1 comp
and in hindsight, I could have been better off with less ignition timing,
but other than that,
there were not really any symptoms that were not sorted with fuel delivery.

Perhaps there is a restriction on the exhaust side that is heating the incoming charge on overlap?
More exh port volume, or larger A/R turbine housing are possible areas to work with.

2443TT · 20 Mar 2012, 10:59 am

Have you considered runing a water/meth system with nozzles both pre and post turbo? I run two 150cc pre turbo and a 300cc post intercooler setup on my skyline. The effects are pretty impressive.

On a hot day of 38 degrees when stuck in traffic it is not uncommon to see a heat soaked temp of 60 degress at the intake. Get on boost and with the water/meth operating, it immediatly knocks 15 to 20 degrees out of the air temps post intercooler. I am sure that it is actually more than this too, because the air temp sensor is slow to react and I don't ever get to see the temp drop curve stabilise at a lowerst value before having to get off the throttle.

Another benefit was being about to run 26lb boost with 25 degrees of ignition with 12.8:1 AFR's while maintaining EGT's below 830 degrees. The knock monitoring system records noise values lower than I used to see with just pump fuel and much less boost.

If I had to guess, its probably a combination of your air temps and your elevated EGT's and combustion chamber temps that are causing your detonation issues at the top end of the track. Ive seen this on methanol burning v8's too. There is a point in the top end of the rev range when under max load where they have to drown the engine in fuel to keep EGT's down. Ive always felt that even a tiny bit of water injection post turbo would do wonders for these methanol burners by eliminating the hot spots in the combustion chambers.

hypo-vw · 20 Mar 2012, 9:17 pm

well I am a little happier tonight to discover that there are NO cracks in my pistons .... I have removed both heads for inspection only to find that the lines that I could see through the plug holes were in fact carbon lines that cleaned off easily . NO CRACKS !! yey .... and the heads appear to be sealing really well .
however I did find a gremlin in No-4 inlet guide has moved , guide boss has broken & valve seat moved in the head .... this explains the very low compression pressure on this cylinder .
A few minor head repairs and back together next week , refit my air-water intercooler & cold air intake pipe , then a dyno session prior to the Sydney Jamboree

BeetleBug · 21 Mar 2012, 7:10 pm

A little nitrous jet will also do wonders for the intake temperature and the gain in HP is bigger than the actual jet size.

2443TT wrote:Have you considered runing a water/meth system with nozzles both pre and post turbo? I run two 150cc pre turbo and a 300cc post intercooler setup on my skyline. The effects are pretty impressive.

On a hot day of 38 degrees when stuck in traffic it is not uncommon to see a heat soaked temp of 60 degress at the intake. Get on boost and with the water/meth operating, it immediatly knocks 15 to 20 degrees out of the air temps post intercooler. I am sure that it is actually more than this too, because the air temp sensor is slow to react and I don't ever get to see the temp drop curve stabilise at a lowerst value before having to get off the throttle.

Another benefit was being about to run 26lb boost with 25 degrees of ignition with 12.8:1 AFR's while maintaining EGT's below 830 degrees. The knock monitoring system records noise values lower than I used to see with just pump fuel and much less boost.

If I had to guess, its probably a combination of your air temps and your elevated EGT's and combustion chamber temps that are causing your detonation issues at the top end of the track. Ive seen this on methanol burning v8's too. There is a point in the top end of the rev range when under max load where they have to drown the engine in fuel to keep EGT's down. Ive always felt that even a tiny bit of water injection post turbo would do wonders for these methanol burners by eliminating the hot spots in the combustion chambers.

hypo-vw · 28 Mar 2012, 7:22 am

inlet guides on no-3 & no-4 cylinders have been replaced . I had to ream guides to accept chevy valves . Valve seats have been recut , valves have been refaced and the heads are on the milling machine to reface the chambers . In my previous post I made a comment that the heads appear to be sealing OK , however they were not . The heads had got so hot that the headshims that I had manufactured had impacted into the head surface and this was not visible until I removed the shims when doing repairs .
I now realise that the noises in the engine I could hear was not detonation , but the heads lifting under high boost pressure

hypo-vw · 28 Mar 2012, 7:34 am

my son Dean helps me fit up the air-water intercooler , water pump , reservoir and hoses . I fill the system with water to discover that the intercooler has an internal leak and water is entering the air chamber .
The system is drained and out it all comes and the boost pressure will be lowered to run this saturday . This will assist in keeping air intake temps lower

1303Steve · 28 Mar 2012, 6:56 pm

Hi Wayne

Bad luck with the intercooler, is that a PWR unit?

Steve

hypo-vw · 28 Mar 2012, 9:33 pm

1303Steve wrote:Hi Wayne

Bad luck with the intercooler, is that a PWR unit?

Steve

Hi Steve , no it is not a PWR intercooler mate . If you check back through the earlier posts on this thread you will see that I took an air-air intercooler and had tanks made for it to convert it to an air-water intercooler .
Last time I used this intercooler I did have trouble with water getting into the intake as you can see in this vid
, I removed it and had it tested . Apparently it was repaired and OK 👎

hypo-vw · 28 Mar 2012, 9:42 pm

tonight I started back on my heads and it all turned pear-shaped early ..... while refacing my Pauter heads a large hole appeared on the barrel seating surface of No-2 cylinder . It appears that the heads have been welded in the past and a large air-bubble in the alloy has broken open . Ben Ford rushes the head to a local engineers shop ( that works similar hours to me ) and has the head rewelded while I start to manufacture adaptor plates for my pushrod tubes . I have had issues trying to keep the pushrod tubes sealed at the cylinder head as the heads do not have a taper in them for the seals to locate . There is not enough material in the heads to machine the taper so I will make bolt-on adaptors

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 28 Mar 2012, 9:56 pm

Wayne out of curiousity what rods are you running? Looking at lightweight stroker rods from pauter but they only do 3/8 rods bolts for type 1 big ends. I was going to go with 5/16 but if that is all they do then I guess they will have to do. Waiting on a price but have been told they are roughly $300 cheaper than Cunningham stroker rods. By running these I will have more clearance to cam lobes so hence bigger profile on cam which would be nice!! Slowly getting parts accumulated to get this thing happening!!

Looking forward to hearing your dyno results now you've found the gremlins robbing you hp!!

hellbugged · 29 Mar 2012, 2:08 pm

Were you unable to do extra headstuds on these heads Wayne?

Governor · 30 Mar 2012, 6:04 am

Hey Wayne, what times are you running with the street motor?

1303Steve · 30 Mar 2012, 7:45 am

Hi Wayne

My mistake in the photo with your wing and engine lid it looked like a PWR barrel intercooler was sitting there.

Steve

hypo-vw · 1 Aug 2012, 10:51 pm

took several incar vids at WSID drags . Unfortunately the microphone level was too low and couldnt here the sound . Ben Ford has just rectified / amplified the sound on the vids as we sit here at Valla Beach Resort for the VW Spectacular. I have just uploaded 1 onto youtube .....

20bkombi · 3 Aug 2012, 11:06 am

Awesome vid!! Love in car footage👍

Sounds like an early shift into 4th, maybe some more in it?

hypo-vw · 26 Sep 2012, 9:08 am

Took the oval to the dyno several weeks ago for a tune prior to warwick. All was going really well until I got greedy with the boost. As the boost approached 26psi, number 1 top headstud stripped causing a case failure as the other headstuds could not support the load. We have known for a while that this is the weaklink in the type-4 engine and work is already underway to strengthen a new case.

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE · 26 Sep 2012, 9:53 am

Always pushing the limits Wayne!! So will you have something ready for Warwick? As far as strengthening the case around those top studs welding up the case in that hollow and perhaps a brace across the top of the case to the studs on the other side like a cradle?

vassy66T1 · 26 Sep 2012, 11:47 am

Shame to hear that Wayne.

hellbugged · 26 Sep 2012, 4:20 pm

Oh dear 🙁

Time for an WPVW "oxyboxer" ? ?

mactaylor · 26 Sep 2012, 5:47 pm

pfunk that looks bad! do you reckon that is boost related or tune?

66deluxe · 26 Sep 2012, 6:36 pm

Sad to hear Wayne, but damn mate you did the job proper. Never seen that happen to type 4 engine before.

Flintstones · 26 Sep 2012, 7:11 pm

Ouch!!
Well at least you know what the limit for a VW case is now.

What power did it make when the case let go and at what RPM?

Cheers
D

vw54 · 26 Sep 2012, 10:08 pm

time to go back to the good old Type one engine with a alloy case

66deluxe · 26 Sep 2012, 10:32 pm

vw54 wrote:time to go back to the good old Type one engine with a alloy case

Ah no.

fish26 · 26 Sep 2012, 10:48 pm

vw54 wrote:time to go back to the good old Type one engine with a alloy case

you're kidding right?

hypo-vw · 28 Aug 2013, 12:34 am

after a lot of thought & homework over the past 12 months regarding the type-4 engine in the oval , I have decided to fabricate an external chomoly cradle that will wrap the entire type-4 engine block . This cradle will be 15mm thick at the cylinder mounting faces , will be dowelled & supported via 8 custom fabricated main bearing bolts ( 6 in the factory locations & 2 across the top of the case )
The main bearing bolts will be 14mm in diameter and the 24 cylinder head studs ( 6 per cylinder ) will screw into the chromoly plate , not the alloy case .

I have had to get Pauter to custom make a new set of modular X-beam rods for me 6.1" long . The rods that are currently in the old engine are 5.5" long . The rods have arrived this week , the Raceware headstuds have arrived , and I have been collecting a few other goodies
Pauter have also made me 2x sets of semi-modular cylinders for my engine , but are waiting on me to give them dimensions for final machining

hypo-vw · 28 Aug 2013, 12:39 am

I have purchased a new set of custom light-weight disc brakes for the rear of the oval & a RLR rev-6 dual disc clutch assembly to suit the type-4 engine

dragvw2180 · 28 Aug 2013, 1:44 am

Hey Wayne,
Wow I would never have believed that if I hadn't seen it. The idea you have is brilliant but will expansion of the block cause you any problem ( possibly bearing clearance) . I was looking at your pictures and rereading your post , would a deck plate held together by your main ( larger) case bolts and head studs that also tied the plate to the case do the same thing ? I know whatever you come up with be well thought out and It will be something well worth reading about . Mike McCarthy

hypo-vw · 28 Aug 2013, 8:44 am

dragvw2180 wrote:Hey Wayne,
Wow I would never have believed that if I hadn't seen it. The idea you have is brilliant but will expansion of the block cause you any problem ( possibly bearing clearance) . I was looking at your pictures and rereading your post , would a deck plate held together by your main ( larger) case bolts and head studs that also tied the plate to the case do the same thing ? I know whatever you come up with be well thought out and It will be something well worth reading about . Mike McCarthy

Hi Mike , what you have described is what I am doing mate , I may have worded it differently than you do thou . My cradle is an external cradle which consists of 2 case deck plates retained by the 6 custom main bearing bolts , joined across the top of the case to form a cradle with 2 extra main bearing bolts . This will not expand the case or have any adverse effects on engine bearings or clearances . This will just make the cylinders sit 15mm further off the case making the engine approx. 30mm wider ( hence the reason for the 6.1" rods ) . All of the headstuds will be threaded 10x1.5mm directly into the chromoly deck plate , lining up with the original 12mm stud holes but not actually threading into the case . Wayne

dragvw2180 · 28 Aug 2013, 11:45 am

Timing the threads between the plate and the case would have been a challenge without going to a bigger stud or using a " timesert " and locking the plate to the case half perminately bonding them together. I look forward to seeing your project. Mike McCarthy

Frallan · 1 Sep 2013, 2:17 pm

Like your car and build. l also think this strengthening is a good move.

Steel plates were pretty common late 70´s and in to 80´s in Sweden prior to alloy cases and the Pauter arrived.
I have also seen a TIV with thick aluminium plates in a thread build from US.

This is my hybrid engine from the 70´s that later was modified with steel plates 1990 when I took the engine to turbo and the street.
Do not know why the URL directlink does not show the pictures? Links work though.

hypo-vw · 1 Sep 2013, 6:23 pm

thanks for all of those pics Frallan , love all of the stuff that you guys have tried 👍👍

This is something similar to what I will do . Were your headstuds threaded into the plate as well as the case ?

66deluxe · 1 Sep 2013, 8:07 pm

Frallan is the man when it comes to unique engine builds be it type 1 or 4. Be great to see your oval and reworked engine at Warwick Wayne.

hypo-vw · 1 Sep 2013, 10:27 pm

66deluxe wrote:Be great to see your oval and reworked engine at Warwick Wayne.

I wont have the oval ready for Warwick this year as Pauter still need to machine the new semi-modular cylinders for my type-4 engine after I give them the dimensions that I require .
I will be bringing the new Dragster to Warwick this year to give it a run , Pauter are currently machining the new semi-modular cylinders for the type-1 engine and I should receive them next week

Frallan · 2 Sep 2013, 12:03 am

On that engine the timeserts with 8 mm original T1 studs are used.
The steel plates are flat against the timeserts.
Now it is likey that I will call Randy at Raceware and repalce all studs with his superstuff.
Still using same concept of timesert in the block and not in the steel plate.

As it is 911 concept, all studs are equal length.

hypo-vw · 2 Sep 2013, 9:50 am

Frallan wrote:On that engine the timeserts with 8 mm original T1 studs are used.
The steel plates are flat against the timeserts.
Now it is likey that I will call Randy at Raceware and repalce all studs with his superstuff.
Still using same concept of timesert in the block and not in the steel plate.
As it is 911 concept, all studs are equal length.

That all sounds like it works for you ..... however the problem I face with a type-4 engine is that the factory studs are 12mm on the OD where they screw into the engine case , and when I bore the engine case for the 104.75mm cylinders I only have approx 1mm of case thickness to the studs . A couple of times in the past I have found cracks down the case spigot at the haedstud area and have had to get them welded and remachined .

My idea with this engine is not to screw the headstuds into the engine case , not to use timeserts . I am fabricating the chromoly plate 15mm thick and all 24 headstuds will screw directly into the plate in 10mm threads , leaving much more material between the cylinder opening and the studs , not to mention the added strength of being screwed into steel rather than alloy . Randy from raceware has supplied all of the headstuds for all of our race engines , I would highly recommend them . Wayne

Frallan · 2 Sep 2013, 11:35 am

Makes sense on TIV what you are saying.
Randy is well known to me as I been bying from him to since 95.
Super quality!

dragvw2180 · 2 Sep 2013, 12:00 pm

15 mm of steel is more than enough to hold your studs for sure. I use Raceware studs also. I met Randy years ago when I had a 911 , he had a news letter on 911's back then that I suscribed to . He is a very intellegent guy who makes a superior product. Mike McCarthy