About religious and political topics

This is not an extension of the rules in any way, just letting people know what's been happening to certain posts recently.

There have been several examples of posts which have offended members, in particular about the Catholic Pope's recent passing.

Despite not being a religious person in any way, I don't mind posts about political matters, religious topics and religious people being posted in General ChitChat, particularly when they are a current topic of conversation.

However - and I address this to the few people who want to seem to cause as much offense as possible by their posts - if you can't keep a civil tone or respect the beliefs of other members, please don't post in these topics. Such posts destroy the thread for everyone, cause hassle, lots of reported posts, etc, and so they will simply end up being deleted. I'm sure there are other forums for your religious (or non-religious) views, but Aussieveedubbers is not one of them as we like to get on with each other.

Andrew

I agree. Those are the two most destructive topic's. Turns friends into enemy's.
Rob...

was actually yacking to a hair dresser one day, she said at 'school' they instruct them... the only 2 things you don't bring up.....

if we could accept that everyone has their own ideas, and we dont have to convince anybody to think like ourselves, it would all be sweet:kiss
oh yeah.... peace and love man:sandrine

warb wrote:was actually yacking to a hair dresser one day, she said at 'school' they instruct them... the only 2 things you don't bring up.....

That old gem. Coined by those who have a vested interest in the status quo.

As for religious topics. Most major religions in Australia enshrine not only attitudes but behaviours that are illegal under Australian law. Sexual descrimination, religious intollerance and sexual prefence vilification to name just three.

[Edited on 5-4-2005 by HotRodMatt]

haha

yep that post last night dissapeared before i could read it and get offended by it. oh well, i'll just have to find something else...

:sandrine It's simple, people have there own views about religion/politics ect, it's like, get over it not everyone thinks one way!

foxy_fuchsia wrote::sandrine It's simple, people have there own views about religion/politics ect, it's like, get over it not everyone thinks one way!

I agree with you foxy, but i get soo anoyed with the pushyness of certain religious groups in ads on the telly, as you said 'not everyone thinks that way' why force it into our homes! you heard the kevin bloody wilson song about showing them his way of life, its a classic.

nuf said!

Andy

I'd rather people become hot and bothered about the various bootylicious aspects of 1916 engines than over something that is not about VWs. This is a VW forum.

For politics, might I suggest:
http://www.itsallpolitics.com/

For religion, you may want to try:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/index.php

thanks,
Andrew

ohhhh, IM SO THERE.... :P

thats shakespere dude... he wasnt a religious figure or a politician... just a badass poet.

BUT...

thats a mighty nice question, and an even better answer!

shakespeare is a poof

frenzix wrote:shakespeare is a poof

Tim your so uncultured, your penrith ways coming out again...

the only thing that is cultured around here is my undies

shakespeare is dead?? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

im over it

i don't vote

vanderaj wrote:I'd rather people become hot and bothered about the various bootylicious aspects of 1916 engines than over something that is not about VWs. This is a VW forum.

So politics and religion are no go but "Confessions" are ok?

No less off topic.

HotRodMatt wrote:So politics and religion are no go but "Confessions" are ok?

No less off topic.

no less off topic, but much less chance of offending upsetting irritating people etc. etc.

...confessions was a bit like the obsessions thread....both OK no offence happened in either that I can remember

Politics and religion and confessions and pretty much anything are a go in General ChitChat.

What is not on is having a go at other people's beliefs. Some of the posts were nothing less than hateful. I don't mind pleasant discourse, but when you say "X was a xxxxxxx and foo is blah blah blah", then we drop down into the realms of badness.

For example, in the "let's get healthy" thread, there will be many approaches to losing weight. It's great if everyone tells us what works for them, but not so great if people slam other people's choice of diet, how often they jump on scales, or how they choose to exercise. Slamming people's beliefs gets people's noses out of joint, and that leads to anger, and anger leads to the dark side (ie lots of wasted moderation effort which eventually leads to thread deletion for the worst threads).

I'm saying you can express yourself, but please don't be offensive about it. I don't always get this right, but you know what I mean.

Andrew

If by telling someone that a belief is nothing more than a belief or theory and is not a fact till its proven as a fact offends anyone.

Good!

Some people must need offending till they can comprehend basic language or lose the priveledge to use it.
Abuse anything and you will most likely lose it.

All sheep are animals but all animals are not sheep,
it's a simple statement that that can be proven as a fact,
All facts are beliefs but all beliefs are not facts.
its as simple as that.

Question. Is too much Sex Bad for you?
Answer. Yes

If I dont explain here and now we will no doubt have a pile of people debating mindlessly.

Yes "Too Much" sex is bad for you because thats excatly what "Too Much" means.

Water is essential for us to live, but "Too Much" water is bad for us, it may even kill you, If you drown in it or get swept away in it, like the sunami at boxing day.
a bucket of water might be "too much" for someone drowning in it.
20,000 litres may not be enough water to put out a fire.

You see, the word Fact is defined in the dictionary as:
{Etymology: Latin factum deed, real happening, something done, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere to do, make something that has actual existence : a matter of objective reality}

So to mislead other people into believing your belief by misrepresenting it as a fact, when it is in actuallity nothing more than a belief, is exactly what has caused many of the wars throughout history.

Why do we have a :jesus symbol next to our posts as an option but no Buddah or other similar character from history?

Because we have already allowed our reality to be manipulated by a religion, and so this is not accepted as offensive to anyone getting listened to, as they are the majority, and it is part of our society that states majority rules.

How does anybody create a majority that agrees with them and therefore gives them power to effect the rest of the world?
They mislead the masses by telling them that the belief they hold is not just a belief, its the truth or a fact, but because they can't actually prove it as a fact they will distract from the subject with many loopholes and tricks.
many years of misleading can create a powerful force be reckoned with.
Christianity has had nearly 2000 years to create a very powerful force.
But that doesn't make it right!
It doesnt make their beliefs any more factual.

U.S.A. president Bush has achieved plenty in just a few short years, using the world trade centre bombings and American's extreeme patriotism to launch an unprecedented force, perhaps to eventually create the United "NATIONS" of America.
He doesn't back up his beliefs with facts, he abuses the fear of his people to serve his agenda.

That Said, Who am I to say that this is not exactly how everything should be?
Perhaps it is, but lying to create an alternative reality doesn't seem like the right thing to do, to me.
How about you?

Amen to that Brother 😎

Herbie wrote:Why do we have a :jesus symbol next to our posts as an option but no Buddah or other similar character from history?

If anything, Herbie, the South Park Jesus emoticon is likely to be offensive to religious persons.

When it is used it has the intimation that the behaviour and general stupidity of the South Park Jesus is not disimilar tot he historical and religious depictions.

It is also often used gramatically as in:
I just stripped a thread! :jesus H Christ!

I reckon that would piss off a few people here.

But when it comes to religion, personally I don't care one iota if they get pissed off. After all sexism and intollerance pisses me off but they get away with it.

Its times like this I thank god I'm an athiest.

Cheers
Dave

57kombi wrote:Its times like this I thank god I'm an athiest.

Cheers
Dave

Lmfao @ Dave, thank gawd

Andy

I just thought I would brighten this post up a bit.

Cheers
Dave

Dave,

Did you hear about the dyslexic athiest insomniac?








Would lay awake all night wondering if there really was a dog.

I like south park,
I hadn't actually made that connection though, good point, its more of a sarcastic Jesus emoticon.

this thread has turned into what it hates most, you guys are freaks! i commend that

this thread is starting to offend me, especialy winerots post on twin ignition. completly out of context!

Watch this before you post again.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

haha. im off to the steam forum..

vanderaj wrote:Watch this before you post again.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

That must be some pretty f##### up shit because the security on my server wont let me view it (bin blocked!!)

:P:P:P:P

Watch it at home. It's like a "how to post properly" movie. The site is a huge collection of flash movies from all over, which is why it must be blocked by your company's censorware.

Andrew

try ..

http://205.209.177.141/albino_files06/posting(www.albinoblacksheep.com).swf

Thats great, I love it, where can I buy some? hehehe

I wondered where my post went, must have got nasty on J.P 2

...i recon he'd be getn nasty right about now - a little larger than in life! :thumb

i HATE steam!!

warb wrote:was actually yacking to a hair dresser one day, she said at 'school' they instruct them... the only 2 things you don't bring up.....

that is absolutely crazy!!! brainwashing children not to think for themselves or have open minded debates!? if i had a kid at a school like that i'd kick some ass...

it takes all types to make the earth spin, its unfortunate that some cant be a little more open minded about others beliefs/opinions/perceptions... i've thouroughly enjoyed my participation in discussions as of late, i hope people dont stop questioning!

Sad but true - the big shift toward private schools is perpetuating this, and you'll note that a large proportion of private schools have religious affiliations and actively teach their own beliefs as fact as a part of the ciriculum! Now consider the large number of religions, all professing their faith as fact - they cant all be right...but they can all certainly be wrong!!

Continuing to question is dead right, without it were all screwed!! Just look at how intrenched religion is in US society, politics, international 'relations' - and if any country is on a faster track to hell id be surprised!! When your belief is your motivation, and excuse for invading the world and destroying lives and countires, in the name of 'freedom', how is logic going to come into play! i mean :jesus

...

AMEN BOTHER VWENVY!

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who questions why.

When I was in Memphis, there were 3 tv chanels all dedicated to brainwashing christian propaganda,

Because I was fresh to it, I was just gob smacked to think that this was deemed acceptable broadcast material.

I had many disscussions about religion while I was there, but tried to remain inert enough not to get hung from a tree.

I would love to have started 3 tv chanels there that showed the hypocracy of the Religious chanels, but you can be sure, that the brainwashed would form a lynch mob in the name of GOD and destroy anything that opposes it.

I would be a very active "think for yourself and see you dont need religion" campainer if I thought I wouldn't be dead at the hands of a brainwashed religon freak and or several thousand of his co followers, with in a year.

Now thats a truly sad fact.

...😠

Did you see John Saffrans visit to the deep South, dressed as a Morman, riding on his push bike with his Mormon looking mate, with a copy of Charles Darwins _ Evolution of Species under his arm. He went knocking door to door professing the word of chuck, he was hit, abused, knocked out of the way... etc - that was some funny shit!!:P

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by VWENVY]

Look, I have my beliefs. Everyone else has different and similar beliefs. So Y CANT THE F*&KEN World just respect each others beliefs and get along.

Rather than being descriminate BAST$%DS!!!!

(I know you don't really want abusive language up, but i made sure I censored it)

If everyone could get along, WWII would not have started, Muslims would not kill Christians, Christians would not kill Jews.

WHO GIVES A CRAP WHAT OTHER PEOPLE BELIEVE IN.

RESPECT IS THE KEY, (OR IGNORANCE OF THEIR DIFFERENCES)
[Both work and prevent discrimination]

Thats my opinion.

Thanks, Chris

(mynameischris88@hotmail.com)
:blah

Yeah, ummm ok.

Now where did I put that beer?

mynameischris88 wrote:So Y CANT THE F*&KEN World just respect each others beliefs and get along.

Why should religious doctrines that actively discriminate, oppress and silence others be tolerated let alone respected.

mynameischris88 wrote:If everyone could get along, WWII would not have started, Muslims would not kill Christians, Christians would not kill Jews.

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. Not one war has begun on religious grounds. Talk to an Arab scholar about the Crusades, a Serbian about Croatia. All wars are about economic and resource control. Religion is nothing but a tool to get the dumb masses who would happily live together to fight for the instigators of trouble.

mynameischris88 wrote:RESPECT IS THE KEY, (OR IGNORANCE OF THEIR DIFFERENCES)

Respect for institutions/organisatios/religions whose stock in trade is intollerance is PLAIN STUPID.

Here we go again!!!!

In the book, the Da Vinci Code, There is a question that two characters discuss, and that is,
If you could prove that a large chunk of the bible was in fact totally wrong, a made up doctrine to support an agenda, do they have they right to shatter billions of peoples faith by annoucing it?
how would the world cope?

I thought about this for a bit, whilest working on my Splitty Van, and I reckon that if someone can prove that someones beliefs are ill founded with a logical argument,
then they have just as much right to announce it, to as many people as they can, and let all the other people make a better informed decision, as the religions that abuse the use of the words "fact" and "True" Because the sooner people unite as humans and not remain divided by religious denominations and by nations and by race, the sooner humans will acheive anything remotely resembling true happiness, and much effort wont be wasted on fighting with one another.

There would be ups and downs to get there but the whole thing would be worth it, even though it would take a long time to come about, as did the level of religious fanatasicm we have today.
I am sure that advocates for the world being round were not treated with much respect when most people didn't question it, they just knew that the world was flat, and thats a fact. everybody knows that.
The world would have continued to be seen as flat if the most widespread religion needed it to remain flat to support their arguments and keep control of its followers, despite all the overwhelming evedience.

Even something as simple as making a world wide law that states, a belief cannot be marketed as a fact without conclusive proof, it therefore must be labeled and refered to as a belief.
This unlikely to happen as a great percentage of the population follows some sort of religion, and even if only loosely, such a law would infringe on them be able to claim it as true to anyone else, hence justifying their beliefs.

Much like the labels on cigarettes, it would start a movement toward educating the masses to make informed decisions.
Just when I thought it was safe to relax and breathe normally, Two Christian recruiters came to my front door on Saturday and insisted that I read their little book about "where did we come from? Evolution or Creation?"
Having looked at the book previously,
I said I was always keen to learn, I took their book and told them I shall go through it and point out and underline the ways in which it tricks and twists to influence toward creation, even though it claims to be unbiased and regularly states that we need to keep an open mind with each ratcheting page of propaganda, and then next time they come by, we can sit down and disscuss it, where I am prepared to discuss why they are being mislead. They agreed, and so I have started to read and remark upon how they state something in one context and then reintroduce it back into conversation a few pages later in another context in the hope that a percentage of readers wont pick the trick.
How they state in this book, {And in General}that a certain group of people "believe" "THIS" and then proceed to make an undefendable misrepresentation of what that Group actually holds as true.
They dont refer to the argument for creation even once as merely a belief.
with each level of newly established illogical biased misleading statements they reafirm how they are looking at it from an open minded point of view.
Sadly, most people they visited that day, wont make a stance even if they disproved of having someone coming to their home and claiming that the home occupants needed to learn the correct way to live and think, and ever so graciously have the answers.
To show how we as a society have already been dulled by this christian religion influence, imagine for one second that I did exactly what the book bearers are doing but with my version of what is the best way to live your life and insisted on influencing the home occupants, repeatedly, how long do you think it would be before someone had me on TV being made out to be a Nutter, or even locked up for harrassment or tresspassing, causing a public nuisance etc.
Not long, I bet.
Some especially influenced people might even be thinking it whilest they read this.
Or what if the people knocking on the door were pushing a muslim angle on things, trying to explain their frustrations with being misrepresented in the media?
They would most likely be run out of town.
Who, a few years ago, would ever have dreamed that laws would be passed that prohibit smoking in non residendial public areas?
It has only happened as a result of public pressure from a 4/5 ths majority of Non Smokers gaining their way through legislation.
Sadly, anybody making a stance against Christian propaganda in Australia should own a bullet proof vest, as they will need it to live long enough to gain enough support to threaten the Churches assumed right to market themselfs as the holders of the truth as a matter of fact, rather than having to present what they believe in as just a belief.

Its something that obviously concerns me, maybe I'll write a book, maybe no one will buy it, may be it will become a world wide best seller that goes down in history as the beginning of a movement, who knows, maybe the church will just denounce it as fables like they have done with
"The Davinci Code", "Not like the bible"

{ I wish there was a sarcasm key that I could hold down to show that I am being sarcastic when I say, "Not Like The Bible"}

after all you cant have people believing in the wrong set of fables now can you, that doesnt serve the greater good of the church.

Herbie wrote:just denounce it as fables like they have done with "The Davinci Code"

But it is just a novel. Even the author says so. Just because he uses some facts and some "grey" material doesn't make it a true story.

It is little different to Jurassic Park.

Thats true, its just a novel, So is the bible, maybe it has facts in it, but on the whole it could never withstand being publicly crossreferenced without the catch 22 "You Need Faith"
But I wonder, if it was true, could he ever get it published if he stated it was true, or would the powers that be quash it all together.

Seems odd that the Catholic church felt the need to denounce this book, it obviously saw it as a threat.

you know i don't want to get into this conversation Herbie, but I have a question and was wondering what your answer is.....

what if someone's belief in something has absolutely nothing to do with fact?
what if the story had been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that it was false but they believed because of something they felt, not concrete facts.....
do you think that proving a story is wrong would change that?
😉

[over and out] 😉😉

ANYWAYS,

this forum is about classic VW cars, not WAR or RELIGION.

So get the poster's message, and get over it.

not at all, people will and should believe whatever they want to believe, whether its true or not has little rellavence,
My concern is that it is accepted that beliefs that are not neccasarily facts are misrepresented in order to convince more people that these beliefs are facts,
Its most often referred to as "LYING", Pardon my spelling.

But to Lie is apparently ok if its done in the name of a God.

A scientist is obligated to present his theory before it is accepted as the best theory that makes sense
a Lawyer is obligated to present his theory, Regargless of his biased paid motive, and let the jury and the judge decide whats true.
many other people in society are obligated to present theories, and when and if they are disproven they are dismissed as incorrect or flawed statements.
If they are found to withstand public scrutiny they hold steady till a better idea comes along.

Why does a representative of any religion think they have the right to waive this obligation?
they don't have that right, but nobody polices it so it runs rife like a virus through the comunity.

Dodge, by pressing the "post reply" button, you did get into this conversation, and no amount of winking and "over and out " statements gives you any real grace, its just cheeky.

Believing that People would all look better if they were painted blue, is a belief that anyone who wants to can embrace and rejoice till the day they die but how would it be treated if they decided to start painting other people Blue?
how would it be different if they had convinced other people that by painting people blue, god said there is a place in Heaven just for them and so convinced millions of people to go out and paint people blue, whether they wanted to be painted blue or not.

Or let them out of detention centres on the grounds that they agree to be painted blue,

And how is this example different from what I am saying about lying to the masses to gain power by majority.

I agree, its meant to be all about the cars, but this has proven to be quite a hot topic and is fine for general topics but like the original message, don't be nasty and create concern for legal action and all will be fine.

I dont say anything that I would think was not the sort of thing I might say in person.

What a cool dude to bring to a party I hear you say...... hehehehe

I'm not always this adament about everything and do have a lighter side, but this is a topic I am concerned about being missunderstood on.

I dont need any grace for asking a question Herbie.
I don't have anything to say, I wanted to know what you would say.
Thanks for your answer.

if I have a delusion that I dont exist, do I have the delusion?

I'm having a vinyl party in a few weeks. 🙂

My imaginary friend is still better than YOUR imaginary friend.

One of the funniest responses to the Bishop of Rome business I heard was "Almost 1 billion people can't be wrong."

I thought, what about a billion muslims, or half a billion buddhists, half a billion jews or a billion hindus?

At least a couple of billion must be wrong.

My is guess all of them are!

NO GODS NO MASTERS

is there a boss anarchist?

Take the political and religious topics to Bad Attitude. 🙂

Andrew