L bug handeling.

Ok all you experts out there.I use to own a 71 Super bug. I lowered it 1.5 inches all round and fitted KYB shocks and strut inserts.I also fitted urathane bushes in the front and widened the wheels to 5.5 inch with 195 tyres.I also got a four wheel alignment and It handeled like it was on rails and always felt safe in all conditions.It even handeled the wind ok.Now I did a silly thing and sold it so I could do up a 74 L bug.I now have the body spot on and the drive train sorted,But i'm having a real problem with the handeling.I have done all the things that I did to the 71,and apart from a few differences they are the same.The problems I am having is when cornering it seems to want to dag out all the time and in the wet it is like driving on marbles. As soon as you turn off a streight line it gets very light.I have already spun it out one frosty morning going home after night shift( boy that woke me up)luckily I was just going arround an intersection and it spun in the middle of the road and stayed on the tar. The suspension in the rear seems softer than the 71 and it took a lot to get the hight rite.I don't know if it's boddyroll that is causing it or not.I don't know a lot about suspension setting up,and I was probabily lucky first time out with the 71.The only thing i have done different to the 74 is make and fit a strut brase to the front.Any help would be great as I have ran out of money and I don't want to blow funds on things that work.
Gary

Buger Gary wrote:and I don't want to blow funds on things that work.

What the????? Why spend money on things that DONT work? heh heh heh

Seriously

IF anything the L bug (late) should handle better than a S bug (early)
Rear suspension is the same just the 2 bolt Vs 3 bolt is the same.

only things i could think that would explain this

Different tyres??

Broken torsion bars in the rear?

Has it been in a prang?

Sorry about the typo but my two fingers can't keep up with what my brain wants to say.As far as my computer skills go i'm still on my L's. To answer blue74L,I don,t think it's the tyres as I fitted some good new ones.As for the tortion bars I have had both out and they look perfect.What I am thinking Is that they may be too soft and I need to swap them for ones out of a super or a type three,or fit a sway bar.A lot of money and work wasted if it doesn't fix it.To answer lugnuts,I think they may have kerbed it as it had an odd strut on the drivers side,It also has had a lot of gravel road work before I restored it.I'll try and attach a pic and you can see for your self.
Gary

Come on,surely someone else has a theory, or are L bugs too high tech!😀

Gary

If the gravel work was excessive , maybe the suspension has been worn,
are the bump stops hammered ?
Could some of the bushes in suspension or steering be worn - sloppy.
Did same wheel alignment place do your work, they should be able to detect worn suspension parts if they pay attention.

I think you have a problem of some sort.
Im not technically minded but my 74 L bug handles a lot better than my 72 Super...
I prefer the handling of the L bugs - ive had two - over the S bug - of which i have also had two....

Thanks for some more input.To answer Glen, No I didn't use the same people to do the wheel alignment and as you see by the pics I pretty well went through it in the rebuild.I replaced most of the rubbers , cleaned and inspected the rest of the pan.I find it hard to describe the handeling,If you have ever rode a motor bike with a flat rear tyre,thats what it feels like.In the dry it holds on,but it dags out in the back.In the wet as soon as you turn off line you can feel it letting go.Iv'e checked all the steering as well,I just can't put my finger on the problem.I am thinking probably body roll might have somthing to do with it as I read a bit about it on the super beetles only web site. would a sway bar fix this or stiffer tortion bars?
Gary

I know a fellow who has a very lowered "L" Beetle... done everything himself. He has a computer as far as I know, but don't know his email address.
I will try to find out for You. Maybe His phone number may be better for You. He said He tried a few different things but now it looks good [low at the front] and He said handles Very Good...
regards
Lee
PS. I don't know why You would have sold something that was working great.... When I get My 68AutoBug, I'll never sell, as there is too much of My sweat in it... along with 4 litres of Fish Oil ..
😀:o:thumb:bounce

I cant say what your problem is, but if you put stiffer torsion bars and/or a rear sway bar on it, then things will get way worse. How stiff are the rear shocks? I'd start there. Go softer.

Saying that a L-Bug handles better than a Superbug is quite strange, apart from the the 1 inch wider track on the front, there is absolutetlyno difference, forget the 2 bolt verse 3 bolt strut, that makes no difference. I've driven both makes on the track & they are both sweet, since they are practically identical.
regards
Jak

I did start with "IF anything" 😀

I only said this cause i just read a bed time story on "Negative Roll Radius"
Now before you laugh your head off i found this on the SBO site

http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/frameset.html

under forums/tecnical/suspension/1302>1303>944

Now when you click on "Negative Roll Radius" you go to a story by one of our very own! and he doesnt even drive a Super.

I didnt really unerstand it but W.T.F. - sounds like i 1/2 know something

😀

sorry it is Forum/technical/suspension/73 suspension

the 1302>1303>944 is a link from there

Hi

Have a look at the bushes in the rear diagonal arms and also make sure the bolts in them are tight. As I have found in the past there are wheel alignments and there are wheel alignments.

1302Steve

1302Steve wrote:. As I have found in the past there are wheel alignments and there are wheel alignments.

1302Steve

A-Men to that one! I took my rally car to 3 different wheel alignment places over 12 months to find out why the steering was vague, wandery and bump steered shockingly. it wasnt until I let a mate who was a wheel alignment specialist look at it that we discovered the front rail had collapsed, causing almost neutral castor on one side.

😠

live and learn :P

No wonder You are having problems with Your beetle bouncing around like that.... looks like the shockies are Shot....😀😀:bounce:bounce😀

LMAO!

the funny thing is that it had a broken handbrake cable, so by dipping and slipping the clutch in and out with the handbrake operating on one wheel, and the stuffed shocks, it would actually get a really good wonky wobble going 😀😀😀

I used to do it in traffic at the lights or near crowds on the footpath, ALWAYS got a good reaction 😀

Thanks all. I'll try to check out your sugestions on my days off.On night shift at the moment,thats why I havn't checked this post for a couple of days.Keep those ideas coming,the more the merrier.
thanks again Gary.

My L bug is very taily in the wet too. Its ok in the dry, almost perfectlt balanced front to rear but in the wet:o Its really bad on the highway in the wet it feels realy loose. If u work it out, post the solution, hopefully its the same problem on mine.

Hi

bix, if you have a rear sway bar will also make your bug taily in the wet.

1302Steve

Hi all. I have finaly finished the dreaded night shift for this week and hopefully i'll get some time to work on the bug and look into your sugestions.I have had a bit of progress this week thanks to Bug off(the owner of my old s Bug) I was telling him how I have coppied all the things that I did to the s Bug and I still could not get it to handle the same.He picked up somthing that I did different.I fitted a strut brace to the L bug.He asked if I have ever tried it without it.I never have so I unhooked it just to try it.Well the difference was noticable right away.I have always herd that they handeled better with them that's why I fitted it.But since I have removed it it tracks better, the wind dosn't blow it around as much and it even runs quieter.I havn't run it in the wet yet so I don't know if it has helped that problem.This developement has led me to beleive that my theory about the back being too soft might be right and now the front is not as stiff it has balanced it out better.Thanks for all your coments so far, I'm looking foward to some on my latest theory.
Gary.
ps, I have attached a pic of my old S Bug for Westy's enjoyment.Yes I probably shouldn't have sold it!

check out the 'L' bug on ebay it might handle okay????

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35227&item=2405234155

Hmmmm $4k....... i think not. :jesus

Thats a bargain if you could get it for $4000, I think its from 999 Canterbury road

Theres a easy way to fix all the Strut front end problems....

get a Torsion bar front end bulkhead n weld it onto your chassis n fit a good old torsion bar

like VW did in 1976.

:beer:beer:beer

Mr Birchall..............

This is so as they could cut costs and try and match crap imports of the day!

"Good buy good handling hello cheap quality" that was VW's motto of the day!

Hmmmmmm ....... i always wondered what a Massey Furgeson drove like!

Buy a Super and see what REAL handling is all about!!!

Now go back to work!!!😀

i SUSPOSE THATS WHY there NOt making Strut front end cars in Mexico n Brazil as well cause they handle so good.... if you lower them and fit sway bars... n all the rest of the junk.

beer on Fridey Bazza ??? :beer:beer

There was plenty of room on my side,It was the hilux using up all the road coming the other way that put the presure on them! But yes it is going alot better and it was holding its line beutifully at the time.Yes there is a show in Hobart the weekend after the scout regatta.I didn't think you would be interested in going down twice in two weeks,but if your interested let me know.
Gary.

vw54 wrote:i SUSPOSE THATS WHY there NOt making Strut front end cars in Mexico n Brazil as well cause they handle so good.... if you lower them and fit sway bars... n all the rest of the junk.

beer on Fridey Bazza ??? :beer:beer

Dont they maker the NB in mexico, I just they need to make the car assembly easy in South America for the manuals that put them together.
I like my car with suspesion travel not as hard as rock.

Buger Gary wrote:This developement has led me to beleive that my theory about the back being too soft might be right and now the front is not as stiff it has balanced it out better.

thats not how things work. Its all about combinations. You have to get shocks that work with springs and sway bars that work with that. Harder is looser. NOT softer. For example, my fastback. It was understeering so I had to go softer on front bar, harder on the back (I have adjustables). It still understeered so I went to heavier torsion bars on the rear. I left the sway bars as they were and it was uncontrollable oversteer. Im now back full hard front full soft rear and now its almost driveable but not on high speed corners.

If the suspension is too stiff it will bounce across uneven surface. Too stiff on the rear also leads to spinning the inside wheels when cornering.

You probably dont have the need nor want to get this fussy, but im just trying to show that hard is loose.

Back again. This suspension thing takes a bit to get your head arround! All the diferent terms make it a bit confusing.When I say it's lose in the back I'm trying to say it feels like the body is swaying,I don't think it's losing traction.I am asuming the rolling body throughs it off line,Thats why I thought a sway bar would stableise it.Since I have removed the strut brace I have done a few k's and it's almost as good as my old S Bug.Thanks for all your input so far I just hope I am not frustrating you's too much as I'm only a back yarder not a race driver,But keep chucking it at me and eventualy somthing will sink in.
Gary