Just thinking out loud for my next project.
To make a split really go and also reliable as a daily driver I was thinking of fitting a suburu motor, what is everyones opinion.
I will explain myself.
Suburu:
Cheap power.
more powerful than a stock beetle engine.
More reliable than a worked beetle engine
More economical.
Cheaper for parts as you dont have to service as often.
Beetle:
Most blocks are over 30 years old
Too expensive to get a new block and then build a new engine
To get any power out of them you have to modify them and it would cost too much and you risk the reliability
Also if you modify them you increase the fuel costs.
What do you think.
Cheers
Dave
bugboymatt ·
Mate imho i would. Why not. I think if i had space and some spare pennies i would for sure. sooo many pluses. My oval will still be an old motor, well if i ever get round to it.............. Would love one for the mrs's bay.
phatrat ·
Dave...if you can have the best of both worlds...then...why not.
MickH ·
go for it:bounce
wezley ·
I've been considering this also, it;s just the sound of the aircooled engine that stops me... and the cash issue 😉
baybuscamperkid ·
GO FOR IT!
bajachris88 ·
It is far more benefitable. I've been researching it too.
For what I was investigating, it was going to cost me $7200 for a full type IV engine, or as custom offroad shows, $8800 for a full subaru conversino.
The extra $1000 will get u so much more. Go for the subi.
I've probably made enemies with the purists now, but there is no denying that the subaru engine is better, (well in my opinion and stance). Apparently you can even get aircon installed with the subi engine, well thats what i heard. (Don't hold me to that one though, i haven't researched and clarifyed it yet).
So yeah, thats my opinion.
PurpleT3 ·
If you were planning on putting a new engine in a splitty anyway and weren't concerned with staying stock, then the suby is the way to go. As you said, more power, reliability and economy for the same price or less. Apart from an emotional connection to the aircooled motor, there is no logical reason to stay VW powered. In their day they may have been a very reliable motor in comparison to others, but over the last 30 odd years engine technology has left them far behind.
I'm considering the same thing for one of my fastys for use as a daily.
Che Castro ·
I'd guess you'd have to cut a bit of sheetmetal to fit a scooby engine in. What about a rotary? Or screw it, go a subaru flat 6! How about a VW VR6 - one of the best sounding engines I've ever heard.
splittychick ·
mynameischris88 wrote:. Apparently you can even get aircon installed with the subi engine, well thats what i heard. (Don't hold me to that one though, i haven't researched and clarifyed it yet).
So yeah, thats my opinion.
Isn't that what safaris are for.....??..:P
jenz58 ·
Mandie are you going the safari's......SO COOL!!! Just do it girl!! :bounce
Midlife crisis ·
Go for it. If its what you want . Then go man go
Marc
jenz58 ·
....oh yes....Subaru seems to be the go if you're going to change...if you're wanting to do more than just shows and easy drives then do it Dave!!!
helbus ·
Second hand Suby motors come with the air cond compressor on them ready to plumb up to whatever evaporator you want to fit.
vwtyp2 ·
I'd do it Dave, if I was to do another Splitty.
bus914 ·
For drivability; definitely. For resale value; not so sure. Could be like the extra window “improvements” people did to panel vans.
frenzix ·
I'm thinking about it .
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
mynameischris88 wrote:It is far more benefitable. I've been researching it too.
For what I was investigating, it was going to cost me $7200 for a full type IV engine, or as custom offroad shows, $8800 for a full subaru conversino.
The extra $1000 will get u so much more. Go for the subi.
I've probably made enemies with the purists now, but there is no denying that the subaru engine is better, (well in my opinion and stance). Apparently you can even get aircon installed with the subi engine, well thats what i heard. (Don't hold me to that one though, i haven't researched and clarifyed it yet).
So yeah, thats my opinion.
$7200 were and who quoted that thats crap my mate who owns a a very secsesful vw shop just built a type 4 that would kick the ass out of a second hand ej 22 the mods include air con, hydraulic tapplets, brand new set of 44idfs fully balanced, big bore kit, ground cam, ported heads with 5mm bigger inlet and exust valves 96 pass oil cooler with thermo fan with oil temp thermo kick in switch in line all brand newberrings rings seals bushs everything that can be was replaced all for $8200 drive in drive out and the owner is still over the moon with his purchase and if you were to put a water cooler in i have no problem but why would you bother with a subi when for less money you could have somthing like a v6 commordore engine even a supercharged one and i would rather put my trust in one of them than a subi i just have herd far to many complates and everyone that i have talked to that owens one say i just want to get ride of it im sick of it let somone else worrie and waste there money on it !!
frenzix ·
subaru are extremely reliable, and cheap to replace... once the conversions done then engine upgrades are are easy and much cheaper... again in the long run. i.e. If you get a reco'd t4 etc then your up for almost the same price as a subaru conversion.. then when that motor dies then you fork out another $8000 or so... with the conversion you only fork out a couple of Grand for a replacement subaru engine.. say ej22.. and you have plenty of grunt no mods
MickH ·
Yeh...go for the Subaru donk Dave...I've had no troubles with mine..efi/airconditioning and NO oil leaks or water leaks.
Stealth ·
A mate of mine just put a Turbo Suby in his Type 3 Ute and it goes like the clappers. As most people who have driven a splitty for any amount of time with stock engine and GB set sup will tell you, you are always pushing that peddle through the floor trying to find extra oomph.
I will build up a type 4 mota eventually in my Bus, but a Suby?. well why not? You will have to cut some inner engine panels though won't you??
I know you won't But PLEASE don't mount a radiator on a bull bar!!! :puke
pete wood ·
Bang for buck, the subi is cheaper and more reliable. I've been driving my EJ25 buggy all week this week, and it's as smooth as a big old caddy. Big cubes, lots o torques, beeeeeeeeeeeutiful.
But don't chop up the engine bay and no radiators up front. Retro but neuvo. 😉
eirecooled ·
why not save driving around in a 30 year old body and just buy a subi. save any hassle at all then! or do you want the VW style without suffering for your art. Get the turbo then you car drive the car that sounds like a sock stuck in a vaccum cleaner.:thumb
Do not go to the Dark Side Luke! :vader
Che Castro ·
eirecooled wrote:Get the turbo then you car drive the car that sounds like a sock stuck in a vaccum cleaner.:thumb
lol thats a classic 🙂
I say go the VR6 and be different. From what I've heard it's actually quite compact for a 6 cylinder
sax ·
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say dont do it.
If you want to modify something like that, go for something less valuable than a splitty.
What everybody says about the subi motor having more going for it is
probably true, but dont butcher a splitty.
It's a classic vw and it should be air cooled in keeping with the feel of it .
Resale value is another thing but then a good conversion job without too much bodgery could be worth heaps too. A driveable splitty is a nice thing....
Your call but I would do it to a bay and then no guarantee I would use a subi motor anyway.
frenzix ·
Theres only one downside to powerful engine in a splitty.. they practically come apart at the seems.. sometimes. They are only hand made, spot welded in most places and since splittys move around a bit they can warp or welds can come apart.. and yes i have seen this. I have seen another bus's roof start splitting from what i think is from overpowered engine. Some go to the extreme of pulling the whole bus apart and re-welding properly. But then again.. if you don't thrash the tits off it all the time and fang around corners you mgiht be OK.
Timmy.dskmember
Kombi_Rescue ·
we are all individuals,the motor of choice is your choice..way up all options...what about 12ohp reliable vw powered wbx engine as an option..water cooled flat 4 efi ..nice ground clearence eg the sump not dragging even when you lower your ride..looks like an aircooled..eg valve covers etc you dont need to cut any body work with plenty of torque to suit a kombi. no adapter plates and speacial clutches..run a stock g/box without the fear of destroying the diff gees sounds like a logical progression ..something like the guys at hannover probably thought when they developed the wbx engine ?????cheers DSK steve
pete wood ·
Frenzix might have a point about the warping thing. Kimm from idian won't put anything bigger than a 1640 in a splitter coz he says they just can't take it. And that's from a man not afraid to seriously power things up.
barenyisbeetle ·
This has been the cause of many a restless night for me too.
I haver 67 bus sitting with the intire back end out.
If I do go the subie conversion, without previous experience to my logic the upgrade in torque would without doubt require at a minimum the latter bay irs/trans hanger rear bracing/type 3 station wagen trailing arms, strenghtened gearbox upgraded brakes ie bay or perhaps an aftermarket torque bar for the existing setup or staight axel conversion? + Engineers certificate. It seems to be a lot of work as opposed to just putting in a type 4 and being done with it. But after all consideration including the echoes of 'you will ruin a classic' by the deranged purists who are never anywhere to be found when you are suck on the size of the road.and always seem to show up in a new water cooled car to talk vw's. I love the look of the bulli and I want to USE it, but I dont want to lose my hair over it. The thought of Having to use sign language to speak to someone one foot away (hydralic tappets included),Cranking up the stero just to make out the bass line of a tune, Its crap.
We aren't tootling around the villages of central Europe. We want to take and often do drive these buses 1000 kms or more in one sitting in the height of summer. I've looked at the math 4:1 thats the cooling efficency of water to air. Sure aircoolers are sturdy little units and as much a political and sensible decision at the time of its use and developement.
Great for the Vehicle they were intended for, 'beetles'.
Everything changes. Fuel prices, parts prices technology standards.And here's a little more contraversy something I use to tip me over the side of water cooled.
If the 3rd Reich and its MI complex had prevailed The Fuhrer would have spent the latter part of his life inspecting his subaru engine plants in Japan. 😀
Che Castro ·
The WBX is a good compromise. Or a type 4 is pretty logical. easily reversible.
I agree with the body not handling it. Even on my bug, a lot of the spot welds have popped over 40-50 odd years. There was even a small shear through the sheet metal near one particular bit. I just seam welded and/or plugged the joins.
Che Castro ·
Or like you said to ian.mezz about his '59. Easy fix, buy a Subaru 😀
kombibob ·
i think the whole idea of owning a split is to step back in time and take it easy.
i love driving the split because i dont care if there is any traffic and if there is im probably causing it.. lol
i think a bay is much more suited to modern motor conversions.
just my thoughts anyway
bob
bajachris88 ·
How do the vw-based buggies go handling the power?
Say, a vw beetle 1500 (1967 to 1971) based buggy?
kombibob ·
i guess most buggys can handle more power as most of the original body has been removed leaving less seems to pop
VWCOOL ·
kombibob wrote:i think the whole idea of owning a split is to step back in time and take it easy.
i love driving the split because i dont care if there is any traffic and if there is im probably causing it.. lol
i think a bay is much more suited to modern motor conversions.
just my thoughts anyway
bob
Many people I know like the style of old cars but don't like the reliability problems with old-school ignitions and carburetors and the lack of power from some old engines. I have helped install and wire late-model EFI V8s and V6s into Mustangs, Falcons and old Holdens so people can drive cool cars with late-model reliability: "retrotech" Some people on here are involved in doing Subaru conversions for the very same reason - good manner, reliability and power. Yet others like the challenge and satisfaction of screwing good performance from the old air-cooled design... I have a foot on both sides of the fence as I have my own hottie air-cooled and am assisting a mate with a Subie conversion. So if you will be driving the car all the time rather than buy a Pregio or Hiace, get a Subie but keep in mind it will be very, very difficult to 'restore' the car once you have taken this step
[Edited on 7/5/2005 by VWCOOL]
57kombi ·
VWCOOL hit the nail on the head.
I like the look and style of a split but you have to admit the engines are well past there use by date for daily driving.
This is what I am after a daily driver.
Not something that was designed over 70 years ago.
Also I would like something that is reliable and will keep up with todays traffic.
Yes its cool to drive an old car but you drive it everyday and you soon get fed up holding up traffic.
As for fitting a type 4 motor.
They are too expensive to recondition and get a good one.
And the cases are still too old unless you can get a new case and how much will that cost.
Also the type 4 still uses a hell of a lot more juice than a scooby.
Some one mentioned a VW wbx motor, I must admit I havent heard of them,.
What are they, and as I havent heard of them I can imagine they would be expensive and also hard to get parts for???.
As for the problem of converting a rare vehicle, split kombis are not rare, you just dont see them on the road due to the cost of restoring them, there are thousands of them.
A hebmuller is rare.
As i said I am just thinking out loud and if you think of it sensibly a scooby motor is the only way to go.
This post did bring some good comments though.
Cheers
Dave
Kombi_Rescue ·
guys at the other end of the spectrum...splitties falling apart,first identify the cracks...are they new or old?40yrs of hard yakka always fatigues a body [just look at me ]..i have played with splits since the late 90's and grown up in a vw dealer culture and have rallied and raced aircooled cars for over 25years.a solid low copression stroker engine works fine in a split...i run a 2.0 with great success prior to that a 1776 with my own irs conversion which leaves the tranny forks in situ...this eliminates stress on the rear chassis rails as others hang the engine .just take a look at the irs chassis rails of a bay...check out the improvements over a split rear.splits will crack with a stock 36hp pushing it along..rough roads or very low suspension set up will only speed up this process...the factory knew the problem and used belly pans to stiffen the body torque be it for sunroof models but the same principals apply..the chassis rails do move about...leave some room for suspension movement after all shock absorbers do just that. the wbx engine fits i have one in the rear of a 60 pickup no fuss quite and reliable. my biggest joy is blowing off anything thats wants a run with the sound of an aircooled grunter...they know that an old vw just ate them not a scuby in a different shell..only my personal satisfaction.. always good to hear that it can work .....cheers DSK steve
bajachris88 ·
Would it put any pressure on the chassis/floorpan by any chance?
Bizarre ·
57kombi wrote:Some one mentioned a VW wbx motor, I must admit I havent heard of them,.
What are they, and as I havent heard of them I can imagine they would be expensive and also hard to get parts for???.
wbx - wasserboxer. Late T3 van 1.9 or 2.1 water cooled flat four. 1983 - 1991 vintage
Also the oxyboxer. Air cooled wotor that uses the wbx block. Better bearings solid block
Che Castro ·
Steve carter put a WBX in his old bug and turbocharged it with pretty good results. It has a lot of components that interchange with the 1600 Type 1, except it has a alloy case and is watercooled and has larger main bearings.
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
57 kombi a type 4's case should never where out they never need line boring and never crack or pull studs they only reson they die is if a rod trys to excape
pete wood ·
Bizarre wrote:
57kombi wrote:Some one mentioned a VW wbx motor, I must admit I havent heard of them,.
What are they, and as I havent heard of them I can imagine they would be expensive and also hard to get parts for???.
wbx - wasserboxer. Late T3 van 1.9 or 2.1 water cooled flat four. 1983 - 1991 vintage
Also the oxyboxer. Air cooled wotor that uses the wbx block. Better bearings solid block
these motors have issues too, They are now quite old and have a habit of breaking corroded headstuds. Annoying to repair and expensive too.
Also, with the upgrade in power, they'd be just as bad as a scooby for sure.
Maybe a stock EJ18 or EJ20 is the answer, that and make sure you use an Lbug box (3.88 rp) so the taller ratios are less prone to load the chassis up with excess torque. You could add to this some sort of strengthening kit like the CSP anti-tramp bars. That would at least stiffen up the forks and the back of the car.
MickH ·
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? wrote:57 kombi a type 4's case should never where out they never need line boring and never crack or pull studs they only reson they die is if a rod trys to excape
I've had many come in with pulled studs...also the rods cause havock when they fall out...bloody type 4's:jesus
bigbaja ·
do it do it do it do it do it do it do it
matara ·
Dave, If its any consolation, I drive my 65 splitty from a North West Suburb of Sydney to the CBD every day for work in peak hour Sydney traffic. Stock 1500, reduction hubs, brakes etc. Yeah people cut in front of you, but I just think I'm the rat thats not in the race.
Cheers
Steve
57kombi ·
I did say at the beginning of this post that I was just thinking out loud and wanted some opinions.
I think each to their own and what ever pleases you so be it.
Thanks to all for the comments.
Cheers
Dave
barls ·
i say do it dave and dont give a stuff what anyone thinks, you usually dont anyway. be different be daring be yourself. hell even my old man is looking at a suby conversion for his camper
bus914 ·
A splitty with a WRX donk IMO would literally be a rocket. It would go, steer and stop like one. You probably wouldn’t need the first 2 gears either. So after the body, gearbox, brakes and suspension are modified the costs add up. Then in 10 to 15 years time when technology moves on and the current Subaru is no longer considered a quick and economical engine, a stock original splitty will sell for a lot more.
…But your driving it, our opinions are only here because you asked for them.
57kombi ·
And I appreciate each and everyone of them.
It makes a change to have a discussion go for this long without some idiot spoiling it.
I asked for opinions and got them.
And Barls, yes I always do what I want and dont really care what others think, but as I said your comments have been welcomed.
Thank you all
Cheers
Dave
[Edited on 8-5-2005 by 57kombi]
kroozzn63 ·
hmm intresting .
I recon if u can convert back to standard for resale value without to much drama scooby it ,but if your cutting to much out and the splitty is show worthy, type4, if its full of dents, rust etc and worth welding together for your own injoyment with reliablity DO IT , Much like hotrodz they could be standard ,but there hi tech and still sell well and drive like new ,as long as its not imaculatey restorable
ClassicVW(pacific) ·
Splitty's were built to travel at 50mph, hold up traffic where ever you go, but go forever !!
Put a scooby in it and it ceases to be a VW Splitty, it will be a Subaru Splitty.
I am going with the 1641cc street power engine with twin ICT carbies for that extra grunt without having a change of pants ready.
Each to thier own though, thats what makes VW's so exciting
57kombi ·
I am just thinking about doing it to the next project.
It will be more of a driver.
I did my 57 too well , in other words I am worried about parking it and wont leave it anywhere out of site.
The next one will be a proper rat.
not just a heap of crap with shiny wheels or a big engine.
It will have all the welding done underneath and be fitted with big brakes and a good engine , be it vw or scooby.
Then I will do a nice interior but wont bother with the paint or body for a while.
It will be safe to carry the family in and be able to go anywhere without worrying if it will get there or if it will break down.
Cheers
Dave
vwrx ·
I have a t25 with a wrx motor in it .It has been on the road since 1999. The only parts I have replaced has been the spark plugs and the cam belt in all that time. Provided that real good oil is used and changed regularly the subie will last as with all engines I guess, but you are going to get a smooth running engine.
I love how it freaks people out when they all line up in the other lane at the lights cos they think you're gonna be slow off the line and you leave em behind!
57kombi ·
Kurt, still got the bay twin????
Might be interested.
Cheers
Dave
vwtyp2 ·
porsche eng in a doublecab?
I love seeing the looks on peoples faces when they get drilled off the lights by an "old Kombi"
kustomkool ·
dont do it buy a suburu if speed is what your looking for.
VWENVY ·
vwtyp2 wrote:porsche eng in a doublecab?
I love seeing the looks on peoples faces when they get drilled off the lights by an "old Kombi"
do you have any more pics and details of this dual cab!?
63Splitty ·
Is that piccie taken at Volkrepair??
57kombi ·
Dont think so, not with a split beetle in the shot.
Cheers
Dave
matara ·
Dave,
Have you seen the job that PanelFantastic did on his splitty panel van? Its got an Eco-tec watercooled GM engine in the back, Porsche wheels and brakes etc. Its a damn fine example of an alternative bus, thats got guts.
I just put some Porsche turbo brembo calipers and Porsche wheels on my 61 Karmann beetle cabrio. They are the biz!
Cheers
Steve
[Edited on 17-5-2005 by matara]
[Edited on 17-5-2005 by matara]
57kombi ·
That does look NICE.
Cheers
Dave
sorenluckins ·
Hehe....... Rad post!
Build whatever it is you want.
A hot rod? Then why not?
A concourse car that lives in bubble-rap....?...
Fine...
Personally, I say make it look as original as possible and make it go, stop and handle like stink..
Everyone will love it and be jealous... leave the purists [who wont admit it its ace] with their oil leaks behind....
coxy007 ·
Dont go a subi if you are going to go water cooled go v6 or v8 its the only way to go🙂
avwboy ·
Stealth wrote:A mate of mine just put a Turbo Suby in his Type 3 Ute and it goes like the clappers. As most people who have driven a splitty for any amount of time with stock engine and GB set sup will tell you, you are always pushing that peddle through the floor trying to find extra oomph.
I will build up a type 4 mota eventually in my Bus, but a Suby?. well why not? You will have to cut some inner engine panels though won't you??
I know you won't But PLEASE don't mount a radiator on a bull bar!!! :puke
who is your mate with this car
is it possible 2 get pics????
pete wood ·
coxy007 wrote:Dont go a subi if you are going to go water cooled go v6 or v8 its the only way to go🙂
Coxy, the torque would tear it apart. Splitties are lighter than WRXs. An EJ20t is more than enough and they also weight alot less than V8s or V6s, putting less stress on the car and requiring less panel surgery to boot.
Brad ·
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? wrote:$7200 were and who quoted that thats crap my mate who owns a a very secsesful vw shop just built a type 4 that would kick the ass out of a second hand ej 22 the mods include air con, hydraulic tapplets, brand new set of 44idfs fully balanced, big bore kit, ground cam, ported heads with 5mm bigger inlet and exust valves 96 pass oil cooler with thermo fan with oil temp thermo kick in switch in line all brand newberrings rings seals bushs everything that can be was replaced all for $8200 drive in drive out and the owner is still over the moon with his purchase and if you were to put a water cooler in i have no problem but why would you bother with a subi when for less money you could have somthing like a v6 commordore engine even a supercharged one and i would rather put my trust in one of them than a subi i just have herd far to many complates and everyone that i have talked to that owens one say i just want to get ride of it im sick of it let somone else worrie and waste there money on it !!
Name a few people who have issues with an EJ 22 conversion ??
Also you have to compare apples to apples ..... Th e$8800 conversion is everything and not just a motor. If it does dye the next one is around $1000 can't say that for a type 4.
While we are on it .. I have a 2nd hand EJ 22 in a kombi and I would love to see the type 4 kick the ass out of it. not saying it wouldn't but for a $1500 engine I am pretty sure it would give your mates type 4 a run for its money. After wards we can go buy petrol although unlike the webbers I won't actually need any.
Brad ·
coxy007 wrote:Dont go a subi if you are going to go water cooled go v6 or v8 its the only way to go🙂
How many gearbox's have you killed now ?
field ·
man i personally couldn't do it to a split but the end of the day its your decision. Probably when i was 19 i might of, but now with 3 kids and as i get older i seem to like things a tad slower,even when i surf i seem to like carving more.So yeah mate do what U want.
cheers:thumb
winerot ·
twin plug the original motor
pete wood ·
winerot wrote:twin plug the original motor
gee that was unpredictable...:P
Brad,
Love to see that type 4 kick ya EJ22s butt. Also love to see it back at the mechanics the next week being tuned again...big dumb carbies.:o
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
Well each to there own i think subis are a pill of shit i will never ever own one let put one in my vw i have had to give top many mates a lift to work in my VOLKSWAGEN powered car whille there pills of shit are getting fixed in the shop costing them $$$$$$$$$ once agian so why would i wont to have to go through all that crap no thanks , you subi guys will never ever convince me that they are good they are a cheap peice of shit, in japan racers wont nothing to do with them cause there are heaps of engines that are better build that have more power and are more reliable find a different engine these are crap
choppa ·
Wow Mudbasher!
Are u for real.
I converted my Notch nearly 7 years ago and have spent nothing on the engine. Except an oil and filter change every year. (damn what a pain!)
It beats everything on the street and a tank of premium last weeks.
I recon I get around 45 miles per gallon.
The perfect daily drive.
Makes me smile as much as my splitty!
Jak Rizzo ·
Porsche engineers designed the engine for Subaru & Volkswagen own the Patent for it. Hell, it's half way there!
Jak
Che Castro ·
calling the EJ20 or subaru engines crap is a bit of a stretch. They are pretty damn nice engines IMO.
t2 ·
off the topic alittle ,but whats with that panel sure it looks the goods except for that stupid looking add on on the bottom of the front skin and dog legs :duh
Dero ·
Looks like some sort of ducting... perhaps for the brakes or intake... I belive that car has go a V6 or something like that in it. Does have porsche brakes all round though :thumb
winerot ·
winerot wrote:twin plug the original motor
predictable:P
twin plug it
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
choppa wrote:Wow Mudbasher!
Are u for real.
I converted my Notch nearly 7 years ago and have spent nothing on the engine. Except an oil and filter change every year. (damn what a pain!)
It beats everything on the street and a tank of premium last weeks.
I recon I get around 45 miles per gallon.
The perfect daily drive.
Makes me smile as much as my splitty!
Yeah mate very much for reall it may be just half a dozen up here that are crap but i have never come across a good one but hay if it works for you sweet im happy for you and i hope it stays that way i don't mean to offend people with my anti subie posts i just don't like them i don't dislike water cooled just subie's
pete wood ·
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? wrote:Well each to there own i think subis are a pill of shit i will never ever own one let put one in my vw i have had to give top many mates a lift to work in my VOLKSWAGEN powered car whille there pills of shit are getting fixed in the shop costing them $$$$$$$$$ once agian so why would i wont to have to go through all that crap no thanks , you subi guys will never ever convince me that they are good they are a cheap peice of shit, in japan racers wont nothing to do with them cause there are heaps of engines that are better build that have more power and are more reliable find a different engine these are crap
Better a new, reliable, piece of crap, than an old, expensive, unreliable one I say. In Japan racers don't wont anything to do with vw boxers either. Have you driven a Subaru powered VW? I've had aircooled cars and I loved them too. But there is no comparison. My engine was designed to produce 165hp at 6000rpm 'from the factory'. And it's mild too. VW never built a boxer that produced anything close to that, and any VW you built to simlar specs wouldn't be half as reliable or long lasting.
P.s. Watch your mouth matey. Your starting to sound way too much like someone else on this forum. 😉
crewcabconnection ·
omg....seems like I'm late to the party....but still haven't seen pics etc., on Subes in splitters...anyone got 'em?
Practical question time...
1) Will an EJ22 fit in the engine bay of a splitter without moving the fuel tank out
2) if fuel tank needs moving, then surely it will be a no no with the RTA to stick it inside.
3) Assuming a radiator is mounted underside - what size/make and are the chassis rails the way to go - what about clutch and brake cables - they gonna be a hassle
4) Anyone seen or got a solution for the window demister issue on a splitter - don't seem much room in there...
5) How much of custom off roads solution should be used - are there alternatives - given I aint anywhere near them anyway.
6) Is 1600 Lbug box the way to go....as I've got IRS set up.
on the T3/2.5 - anyone got links or more info for Sube conversions for this. My VW waterpumping motor is fine, but defo like more HP, I think the air uses more than the wheels at times......
Thanks gurus....
kombi-troppo ·
I thought about the subaru conversion too for one of my vans until I saw what you get. Is anyone else concerned with forking out $8000+ and still having and old engine (10-15yrs) with 200,000 kms already on the clock. I'm sure they do a good job but if I were spending that kind of money I'd want a reco at least. Has anyone else thought this?
pete wood ·
my motor has done less than 100k. It depends on where you get the motor and stuff. Also remember that a rebuilt VW in most cases has 2nd crank/rods/case and other stuff. And a good 1776/1835/1916 will cost round 8k by the time you buy the webers and other hot bits. Not only that, but it will probably only last 150k which puts it in the same category as the subie even after the subie has done 100k.
Deano, check out the subaru/vanagon yahoo group.
[ Edited on 14-10-2005 by pete wood ]
Bug_racer ·
I'm with Steve on this , I'd go for a watercooled 2.1 . I dont like the subaru motor . I worked at a subaru / mazda / VW dealership for 6 months . Subaru and mazda engines are crap . The biggest problem with Subarus is the bottom end . Its piss weak and it doesnt take much to spin a bearing . Thats probably the only issue with these motors , If you can redesign that then your fine . And its not age , had a car with just over 2200km on it with a spun big end . And its true about the Japs not using the Subarus . If you ever watch drift videos try and count the subies out there . The only problem I see with putting in a watercooled car is the extra weight and the extra load on the box and chassis .
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
After just getting parts ordered and sent over here from the states why does everyone think it is so expensive im buildind my engine ill share some specs and prices, 71mm c/w crank, i beam rods, 104mm p/b with je forged pistons and total seal rings, 96pass oil cooler with thermo fan, thermo fan switch and thermo bypass switch postage and import tax for about $2300 aus my heads are about $1000 with 47mm 39mm stanless valves ported and polished and my injection setup will be done for under a $1000 so what are we up to so far $4300 but i expect that it will a bit more with the rest of the engine parts like new oil pump and other little bits also some parts that im putting on it for looks but for well well under $8000 you to can have a 2411cc type 4
jakjones ·
pete wood wrote:
winerot wrote:twin plug the original motor
gee that was unpredictable...:P
Brad,
Love to see that type 4 kick ya EJ22s butt. Also love to see it back at the mechanics the next week being tuned again...big dumb carbies.:o
Dumb Subies IMO
You love to bag VW Stuff don't u
jakjones ·
pete wood wrote:
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? wrote:Well each to there own i think subis are a pill of shit i will never ever own one let put one in my vw i have had to give top many mates a lift to work in my VOLKSWAGEN powered car whille there pills of shit are getting fixed in the shop costing them $$$$$$$$$ once agian so why would i wont to have to go through all that crap no thanks , you subi guys will never ever convince me that they are good they are a cheap peice of shit, in japan racers wont nothing to do with them cause there are heaps of engines that are better build that have more power and are more reliable find a different engine these are crap
Better a new, reliable, piece of crap, than an old, expensive, unreliable one I say. In Japan racers don't wont anything to do with vw boxers either. Have you driven a Subaru powered VW? I've had aircooled cars and I loved them too. But there is no comparison. My engine was designed to produce 165hp at 6000rpm 'from the factory'. And it's mild too. VW never built a boxer that produced anything close to that, and any VW you built to simlar specs wouldn't be half as reliable or long lasting.
You obviously don't know much about vw 's thats why u used a Subie, face it mate your way of thinking is not Gospel.
Stop bagging vw stuff then whinging bout the response.
I'm with Mudbasher..
P.s. Watch your mouth matey. Your starting to sound way too much like someone else on this forum. 😉
Craig Paton ·
Why not do a low boost turbo 1600? :thumb Still light, parts are reasonable, the Split won't lose value with choppin the ar#@ out of it, smooth extra power and better fuel economy! Quiet too!
There's been a couple of low cost turbo's that have been advertised on this forum, so I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem!
If the VW engines are built well, and with this type of application who's to say that there's not years of trouble free motoring with the Splitty and an A/Cooled engine!!!
Well this puts another angle on the debate!😁
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
Good to see i have someone else on the same track as me i say if you hate volkswagens some much to put a scoop of poo in just leave it in the grandmas car were you found it and drive that, just my opinion
Craig Paton ·
And if you really wana nice accessory to go with the turbo,
you could 2-plug it!.... more torque, which would be great for a Turbo, cooler engine operating temperatures { again great for turbo's}, better fuel economy too!
And still easy on the running gear!!
Problem Solved!😀
[ Edited on 16-10-2005 by Craig Paton ]
crewcabconnection ·
blimey...not in agreement with the Subaru bashing. I've had 4 since 1999, all new, all ran to well over 100kms, all worked hard and never had a hassle. No warrenty work etc., so that's the basis for this direction added to the fact that there are a whole bunch of people doing it/done it, so it's not an odd ball idea.
Helbus' photo story is great inspiration.
I don't want a racer, but I wanna climb to Katoomba without slowing to a crawl or forever cogging down. I also want to have something that has enough go for those occasions when the local Camry moron in acting like a tw+t in traffic. If it went at Liberty or Forester pace that would be nice.
My experience of T4 motors and uprights over the last 10 years is that they are a constant work in progress.
The turbo idea sounds good, but will they last?
crewcabconnection ·
oh great, now I've got to read a gazillion threads about turbo-geek speak...what the? sound impressive, like the idea....even Mr Wood had the idea at some point...
so what are the cost benefits of the Air Cooled turbo - is that gonna cost more to build? Guess I'm basing this on the stock prices from Custom Off Road...
I've got a good 1600 - how good can that motor get and by whom? - I am not 'into' Subaru as the be all and end all, it just seems like no-ones around saying 'I wish I didn't EJ20T or EJ22 my VW'....
pete wood ·
Bug_racer wrote:I'm with Steve on this , I'd go for a watercooled 2.1 . I dont like the subaru motor . I worked at a subaru / mazda / VW dealership for 6 months . Subaru and mazda engines are crap . The biggest problem with Subarus is the bottom end . Its piss weak and it doesnt take much to spin a bearing . Thats probably the only issue with these motors , If you can redesign that then your fine . And its not age , had a car with just over 2200km on it with a spun big end . And its true about the Japs not using the Subarus . If you ever watch drift videos try and count the subies out there . The only problem I see with putting in a watercooled car is the extra weight and the extra load on the box and chassis .
The problem with working in any dealer ship is you always see the ones that go wrong... and generally in they colour your view of everything else. I had a mate who used to sell Porsches. Now as far as expensive sports cars go, Porsches have a reputation for reliability, but would he ever buy one? No fear, coz he's seen all the lemons. Does that mean every Porsche is a Lemon? No way!
BTW, the VW veteran who has built VW motors for both myself and my brother said the only thing stopping him putting a Subie in his car was that it wasn't good advertising for a VW specialist. Oh... he hates waterboxers. Says the headstuds rust and snap. Hates working on them, doesn't think they're much chop at all.
Jak, can you find a new song? Even AC/DC got tired of playing the one album over and over. Yawn....:o
[Secretly Jakjones and Mudbasher are wishing they could put subies in, but they don't want to have to eat their words...:P stir stir]
winerot ·
57kombi wrote:Just thinking out loud for my next project.
To make a split really go and also reliable as a daily driver I was thinking of fitting a suburu motor, what is everyones opinion.
I will explain myself.
Suburu:
Cheap power.
more powerful than a stock beetle engine.
More reliable than a worked beetle engine
More economical.
Cheaper for parts as you dont have to service as often.
Beetle:
Most blocks are over 30 years old
Too expensive to get a new block and then build a new engine
To get any power out of them you have to modify them and it would cost too much and you risk the reliability
Also if you modify them you increase the fuel costs.
What do you think.
Cheers
Dave
jeez 5 months now a lot of for & against alternative motors
predominately subaru, on the other hand vw motors seem
to be getting a white wash :o must be something wrong with my motor its done me well & going by paperwork the
previous owners as well with one recorded recondition before i aquired the bus.
original owner bought from factory shipped to england for devon camper conversion in 74 then 1 year travelling through europe, asia & africa shipped to brisbane then north coast where it has been for 30 years, the log book is still in good condition with exotic vw service centres stamped in it as well as all receipts overflowing in a 4" thick hardbox folder including all shipping details from 1 continent to another to a third(island) oh yeh even yesterdays petrol receipt:thumb.
plenty of stories over 30 years but jumping to last week on tuesday i drove to sydney & around till thursday i drove back to mullaway then sunday i went to tamworth & back home sunday evening with shorty i picked up.
whooo i could do a whole page here slow down anyway the original motor is over 30 has had a strong life & even more so now as i would clock 4 times more km's a year than the average, im not a slow person when driving
(deep down im a webber even thoe ive got kadrons:P)
my driveway does not have a drop of oil on it for at least a year, oil droplets happen from time to time.
parts have been readily available since my van was built as is parts for your vw when you look at it all parts for all vw's are available can you name another motor company on that list if you can is it every car they made.
i think not.
log book
motor
removed & two pack engine well
full recondition twin plug most of you have seen in ride section back in total $5700 & being worked hard:thumb
vw built a motor to last as long or even longer than the body & we all know the bodies can handle it.
1 for vw motors :bounce:bounce
[ Edited on 18-10-2005 by winerot ]
pete wood ·
I've just spent a while re-reading this whole thread.
As far as I can see it boils down to two things.
1. Keep a type 1 VW motor in the splitty coz that's what they came with...
Vs
2. Put a Subaru/type 4 motor in the splitty coz they are cheaper/better/newer...
I don't think anyone has really won. Lots of people have swore by VW motors (be it type 1 or 4) and lots of others have sworn by Subarus. I think you know where I stand. But I think those who questioned a loss in value (post conversion) on resale might have a point.
Other than that, I think it might be fair to say that installing a Type 4 in a splitty probably takes a similar amount of work to a Subaru by the time you convert it to upright, Properly support it, put on the twin carbs and tune it. Otherwise you need to cut into precious metal and none of us want that.
So in the wash up I'd say, either stick with a type 1 motor or be prepared for a not insignificant conversion be it to subaru or type 4.
[I'm now preparing myself to be shouted down by all the Type 4 lovers...🙄]
koolkarmakombi ·
I own two subaru cars, and the cars are really good with the scooby engine left in them!
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
I love type 4s am not the greatest fan of type 1s but hate subies but that anit my car so do what you wish but remmber this a subie lover will always go on about how good they are, and the same with type 4 lovers and type 1 lovers where all the same so find out what works and go with it best of luck to you
Tim
Craig Paton ·
Each different engine combo has both positive and negative aspects to them!
It basically boils down to what YOU want!
However I would like to here from some of the guys out there that have actual aircooled turbo experience! Maybe if Boostn, Wayne Penrose or alike, would like to chime in with their experience to give some valuable imput into the reasonably inexpensive turbo 1600 theory!
