Why bother hotting up a VW

After the well recieved comments regarding" VW v Suburu engines in a splitty.
I thought I would offer you another chance to put your opinions forward.

Why do some people hot VW motors up and then say they are V8 killers??
If you double the capacity of a vw motor from a 1200 to a 2.4 ect,and then add 48 webers that allow 4 times the normal amount of fuel(guessing here) into the engine and then it is that unreliable to drive on the road,
what have you really achieved.??

If you were to double the capacity of the V8 and then added the 4 times more fuel ratio .
In other words if you did the same to a V8 as you did to the VW motor the V8 would win every time.

I just cant see why some people brag that they have a V8 killer, yes but proberbly against a stock V8.
And how much did it cost to prove it.??

Just my thoughts.

Cheers
Dave

Each to their own.......Others will say why spend that much on a old vw bus, when you can go and get a decent tarago.....Its all up to the individual....

N!

I wholly agree , each to their own.
I would never tell someone what to do with their cars.
It is just the whole bragging about being a V8 killer thing that gets me.

Cheers
Dave

I hear what your saying Dave, but thats a pretty broad statement.

It would be so easy to whack an ej20 etc, etc in the back of your dub, but me, if i'm going to beat a V8 i'd get more satisfaction doing it with an aircooled vw motor....but thats just me. It all comes down to money in the end.

Then there's the power to weight ratio as well, I used to have a single weber powered 1835cc that used to blow the door handles off a lot of V8's and it wasn't a big buck engine.

I am not having a go at people that do it I am just saying that if you modified the V8 the same percentage as the vw motor, then it would be a fair race,

Its the bragging bit I dont get.

Cheers
Dave

You need to compare apples with apples.

eg standard beetle 40hp plus...standard V8 220hp plus.

we need a bit of a head start.

i think you are missing something in your base point Dave.
1200 dont go to 2.4L

But just as a basis well.... i can see the point in changing a 1600 into a 1916 or even a larger donk.

They dont have to be unreliable. I know lots of 1916 plus motors that are pussy cats to drive that are V8 beaters.

Why do it...... why fix up a splitty???
Some people are better mechanics than panel beaters.
Some people enjoy an old car that goes as good as a modern day car.

personally i miss the point with the subi thing. "I" would rather just buy a WRX than go the VW / Subi thing. No problems with those that do it - just not my cup of tea.

But yes - seeing a well tuned 1916 in a Super knock off V8s, Rexes and other blown stock cars seems impressive to me. Seeing a naturally aspirated Weber fed flat 4 to a better time than a commodore round the Creek is some thing to say... hmmm impressive.

and if you add webers you do not necessilarily ruin economy. My Webered 1776 was the most economical VW i have owned, besides a stock 1200

Why do it..... because it is fun.

Why fix up a split and spend heaps cutting th rust out when they still drive like a pig???.... because it is fun (to others)

Any way... that is my answer

dave you havent lived until you have experinced the roar of 48,s with a 2.0plus aircooled ..take a ride and make a decision after that..better let me take you for a blast in my 67...hang on!!! cheers

57kombi wrote:I am not having a go at people that do it I am just saying that if you modified the V8 the same percentage as the vw motor, then it would be a fair race,

Its the bragging bit I dont get.

Cheers
Dave

Because the VW is more adaptable. There are not as many motors out there that for small maecanical change you can get a large gain.

Why brag.... same reason a swimmer brags about swimming i guess.

The VW lends itself to a well modified car on the race track and it doesnt have to cost big $$$

The best example i can think of is Snotty the grenn V Force 1971 Super.
With a 1916 and a well sorted suspension it came in like 20th in a field of 140 plus cars.. open field

Yep - i can see why they brag over that.

rhddlxbd wrote:dave you havent lived until you have experinced the roar of 48,s with a 2.0plus aircooled ..take a ride and make a decision after that..better let me take you for a blast in my 67...hang on!!! cheers

haha...ive driven this split, it goes, still got whiplash...

57kombi wrote:After the well recieved comments regarding" VW v Suburu engines in a splitty.
I thought I would offer you another chance to put your opinions forward.

Why do some people hot VW motors up and then say they are V8 killers??
If you double the capacity of a vw motor from a 1200 to a 2.4 ect,and then add 48 webers that allow 4 times the normal amount of fuel(guessing here) into the engine and then it is that unreliable to drive on the road,
what have you really achieved.??

If you were to double the capacity of the V8 and then added the 4 times more fuel ratio .
In other words if you did the same to a V8 as you did to the VW motor the V8 would win every time.

I just cant see why some people brag that they have a V8 killer, yes but proberbly against a stock V8.
And how much did it cost to prove it.??

Just my thoughts.

Cheers
Dave

Few things in life are more fun than pulling up next to some wanker in his big, flash HSV and beating him from the lights...

you guys are missing the point

dave is asking why brag that your tricked out aircooled motor is a v8 killer...

because when someone creates a car that can beat a stock v8 out of the car built for economy and practicality, certainly not for high performance, its worth a mention.

and people dont build a 1916 just to brag, it might have something to do with combining the power and performance of a sports car with the lovely lines of a bus or bug.

i dont like subi dubs, just my opinon there, keep it aircooled, and brag if you wish, just make sure your bite is just as lethal as your bark

I'm not sure what kind of response you wanted from this thread dave.. it's a VW forum and alot of people will automatically get defensive.

i dont know about others but i get better fuel mileage out of my 2L t4 than the 1700 i had. i actually get almost the same fuel mileage as a stock 1600 with the 2L t4 but a whole heap more torque

Well I would like to see either quarter mile slips from the track or dyno figures to show just how many of these V8 beaters there are out there. I have no doubt there are a few but I would guess only a few.
I do not care what you drive but in the end you can not beat technology, wether it be using a turbo fuel injection or just a well machined and balanced NEW stroker crank, or an injected quad cam v8 the old motors will never keep up.

its the new technology we fit to the old school engines that bring so much enjoyment..efi/turbos and the like. i still enjoy driving the ring out of a 36er or 16v 192kw fwd golf. at the end of the day its why i have a vw badge on the front of my car

The term "V8 killer" more than likely has been around for ages. When Empi etc were first racing back in the 60/70's alot of the cars they were racing we're v8's and obviously alot of ribbing when a bug " killed" a V8 on the strip.
Thats what the "sorry bout that" was all about painted on the rear fenders of bugs. Have a look at some of the old pics and the cars at the time and they were called " Giant killer" etc. Maybe thats why folk say this and use the term???

Dan:thumb

well, i wanna put a subi in a buggy, because i need the extra grunt to fly up the dunes. You can do it in a type IV, but I hear the subis are more reliable and great in so many ways.

But when it comes to putting one in a beetle, well the purists aint gonna like it. but if i were to mod a beetle, and give it a flash modern body style, then i might as well make the running gear modern too.

If i were to fix up a vee dub and keep it looking authentic, if i really needed to and felt as though i had to do it (cause i never been in a bus or vee dub other than a beetle), then i would go ahead. But its all a matter of circumstances and individual opinions.

its like all subjects in life, there are people who agree with ya, and those that dont. I learnt that the hard way, but thats my opinion with the different engines.

😉

Interesting..... I supose you have to ask yourself why you chose to drive a VW or any type of car and become an enthusiast. So if you an enthusiast of VW's, then maybe its the whole car including the engine type, and if your'e not,and another type of engine makes you happy, then go crazy.Its a personal choice.

As for me the engine is part of the car from start. If I was a V8 boy then I'd probably spendjust as much on that. But I love making my car go fast and I spend alot of money doing it, but thats my choice I'm and enthusiast. I've also introduced new technology into the old engine type and I'm having a ball.

As for V8 eaters, I suppose part of the fun is to get a 4 cylinder to go harder than V8's, and Ive seen 4's destroy worked V8's and the drags. It wouls apear that the average V8 does about 15secs over the 1/4 mile. When I was last at a street meet I was doing 14.5's. And I hope soon to improve that.

So for me its about the whole car, original type engine,the lot. Holden/ Ford, V8, Import what ever.

Interesting debate.

You can make a hot VW be reliable, if those that breakdown or just break, all you do is build it right once.

We now have some street legal 10 - 15 sec cars over here in the UK. One such car is Ritchie Webbs yellow cab, and over the years he has invested in building a very very quick motor. Pulls wheelies as it screams off the line in its turbo motor, and runs 10s...yes 10s.

The DKP styled retro 70s cal look some of these are the same, with as an example "CHOPPED" the X Keith Goss car being extremely quick around the 13secs

My good friend Bernie Newbury also had a blue oval, which again was capable of being very quick, and a 11 - 12 sec quarter mile toy. Although I think it had all the Bergs under the decklid powering it lol.

All the above are street legal, and in many cases daily driven cars.

Ive been in the scene for over 15 yrs, and over the past 10yrs the cars have got quicker and quicker. They have also become reliable with minimum breakage, mainly because we have over here in the UK many many speciialists. Pete from the Cogbox to build bullet proof gearboxes that can take the abuse, WPS, Funkenblitz, John Maher, Stateside Tuning to build some very very fast engines as they have the skill to do it. In fact Pete at Funkenblitz will go out with you so you know how to drive a fast VW as theres no point spending tons of money and smashing it up.

So back to the question...why do it?

Simple answer is.....

Because we can!

I mean who would of thought about building a squareback to sit a Porsche 993 engine in it, unheard of. But its done because the owner can.

If someone wants to invest money in a VW than say a V8 then why not. You could do it cheaper by bolting a scooby motor into it, or like Wayne Alman here in the UK and the Phunky Phanthom a V8 with a sculptured dredlock scull sitting on top of the supercharger.

Dont forget many many people look at a VW as a slow slow car. Many are V8 eaters.

In the UK we used to have the VWs v the Outlaw Anglias/pops, which was really really cool.

I attach some pics to get u going!




Pete at the cog boxes Fiat with VW engine




Richies cab



Russ Fellows - fastest street legal bug




No Remorse - Scooby powered bug



Phunky Phantom V8



Another V8 bug in stars n stripes.






For you V8 heads!




And finally Bernie and Joe in their Paintbox painted cars.

😉

Stu

[Edited on 7-5-2005 by Backto89]

VW enthusiasts tend to do work on their cars themselves... it's not like you can go to your VW dealer and ask for a beetle with a close ratio box and 2276 stroker. although i haven't gotten to building engines yet, i reckon it'd be incredibly satisfying to cream some guy in a brand new $50k v8 holden with your hand built 50 year old vw which cost a 1/3 of the price to build

The 993 Carreraback

Why bother hotting up a VW

because they're fcuking cool😉

why does it need to be a v8 killer anyway?

I think a car nut is a car nut,

VW,Holden, Ford, Mini etc etc

we want the best and will strive to get it.

- I like this Quirky Old car (its all curves and Dated styling)
- I like that on a multilane road, cars will queue up behind the other modern cars at the traffic lights and not mine.
- I like that when the light goes green this Little old beetle just accelerates away from them like they are going walking pace.
- I like the fact that I can roar away from traffic lights every
time ( about 15 going to work) and I hardly notice it on the fuel guage.
- I like the way this Beetle sounds (though some times quiet be good)
I've had HSV's catch up and Burn me off at the next set of
lights, but they would really notice the fuel Bill if they kept
flogging it at every set of lights the way I do.

It's a "to each his own" thing Dave.

I personally can't see the point. If I wanted something quick, I wouldn't have bought a VW to start with.

But having said that, the stock 1500 beetle sitting out the front will happily do 70 mph all day.

...I had a 4cly Oz made car(not saying what it was cause you'll ROFLOL)
,it was turbo 1.6, I spent 460 on a good exhust and a good air filter.
So I was going home from work one day and this Tool from work pulled up beside me at some lights in his SS, think it was a VL model, with my wife sitting next to me saying "don't you dare...Ok, its him but only to the next lights' you hear me?"
...anyway he never spoke to us again and it was awesome to do the old 4 versus 8 thing.
...oneday I would like to hear in my Splitty "That doper just shit on me"...can always dream:thumb

[Edited on 7/5/2005 by robnjo]

If you can't see the point then youve never experienced the lift you get when you drive a properly modified Beetle, its almost better than sex, and yes they can and often do cream many V8s both std and modified.


edited by dasdubber - please see recent comments about trying to keep this forum positive. A lot of people are very close to leaving the forum because of the negativity. Direct your complaints to me if you like.

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by Dasdubber]

Edited by dasdubber - just trying to keep personal attacks out of this forum. Direct complaints to me if necessary. Cheers


I posted this to see what peoples thoughts were.
I did say each the their own.

Cheers
Dave

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by Dasdubber]

If you think driving ANY car is almost better than sex, you need a new woman!

Andy42 wrote:Well I would like to see either quarter mile slips from the track or dyno figures to show just how many of these V8 beaters there are out there. I have no doubt there are a few but I would guess only a few.
I do not care what you drive but in the end you can not beat technology, wether it be using a turbo fuel injection or just a well machined and balanced NEW stroker crank, or an injected quad cam v8 the old motors will never keep up.

You may be right about the 'older vs newer' motors, but having a kick-ass old air cooled VW is great fun. Plenty of VWs have raced at drags over the years and done respectable times. I embarrassed more than one V8 at Eastern Creek and Oran Park drags. And my brother and I 'owned' just about every HDT Commodore and one or two older Porsches on the North Shore 15 years ago with our matching Bugs... and I'll be doing it again in a few weeks... 😉

[Edited on 8/5/2005 by VWCOOL]

jakjones wrote:If you can't see the point then youve never experienced the lift you get when you drive a properly modified Beetle, its almost better than sex, and yes they can and often do cream many V8s both std and modified.


edited by dasdubber - please see recent comments about trying to keep this forum positive. A lot of people are very close to leaving the forum because of the negativity. Direct your complaints to me if you like.

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by Dasdubber]

I am editing, as the original post has been edited, and no-one will know what Im talking about!

N!

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by Unity-28]

Spook wrote:If you think driving ANY car is almost better than sex, you need a new woman!

lol... or you have a GREAT car!

So its ok 4 Dave etc to have a go at hot vw moters in general, but not ok 4 me to question his beloved splitty.

OK
typical of the mods on this forum.

If you read my post correctly you would notice that I was not having a go at hot vw's but at the people who brag that they are v8 beaters.

Some people just see a chance to have a go at someone and imagine what the post is about.

I was just trying to get a discussion going

What happened to people discussing things without being offensive and having personal attacks at people.
It does make you understand why a lot of people are fed up with this site.

Shame it is a few that spoil it for the rest.

Cheers
Dave

Im sure no one wants to deliberately hurt anyone. Its alright 57kombi, (pat on the back), i rekon u weren't dissing anyone, and neither were the guys coming back at u. Everyone's just showing their different opinions.

Unfortunately some people can take em' the wrong way, just a misundertanding of language, thats all.

Its alright 57kombi, im sure u didn't mean bad. 😎

hey chris dont worry about dave hes tough. its more someone and his negative attitude thats causing the problems

I think phatrat hit the nail on the head "wat eva car, just do it and do it hard,
And i think the element of suprise we love , pulling up to the lights in an old rusty "DAK DAK" and burning of a V8 would be an awsome feeling as well as a purist, putting of in a 23 window splitty next to a merc 4WD
we Want respect for a well engineered car that has lastthough the ages against what 95% of society thinks about vws

can we all just let things be said? daves just posting a thought thats wat this forum is about. no ones having ago except people having ago at daves simple question for others to answer.

DAVE YOUVE DUG YOURSELF ANOTHER HOLE YOUR IN IT!

DO YOU NEED A LADDER MATE?

just joking mate!

mattie

i think the bragging bit comes down to the simple fact that those with v8's believe that nothing beats cubic inches...... they usually scoff at the idea of a 4 cylinder beating a v8

jakjones wrote:So its ok 4 Dave etc to have a go at hot vw moters in general, but not ok 4 me to question his beloved splitty.

OK
typical of the mods on this forum.

Questioning the rationale behind building a "hot" vw engine is entirely different to personally attacking someone.

I encourage constructive criticism and debate about pertinent VW related topics but we (us typical moderators) have to draw the line somewhere. And yes these sort of flippant comments (which yes I did edit) are the things turning people away from the site and causing other long time users and contributors to question their involvement (including the founder of the site).

Think before you type is all I can say and the we wouldn't have to moderate. Now lets hope we can get back to useful discussion.

I dont know about bragging about "V8 killers" Dave, but a sure way to get Commodore crowds attention is to check the oil on an old '78 V12 jag at a servo.

When they come over to have a closer look I show them the original sticker inside the glove box that gives recommended tyre pressures for driving with a full load, 5 people, at a constant 120mph (193kph) !

Ahh, the good old days 😉

Roger

blutopless2 wrote:i think the bragging bit comes down to the simple fact that those with v8's believe that nothing beats cubic inches...... they usually scoff at the idea of a 4 cylinder beating a v8

EXACTLY

I know what you mean 57Kombi. If you did the same mods on a 351 Clevo that you did to a VW motor, the v8 would still be faster, it's just a fact. I've seen some impressive VW motors, but none that would fry the tyres and send the car sideways when cruising at 100kph. VW beating a standard v8 maybe, but beating an equally modified v8? No way.

57, I understand what your going on about also. I have had some fairly quick cars, supercharged and what not and if I was to spend what I have spent on my turbo engine on a V8 it would be a really hot engine. I love street machine's and hotrods etc doesn't matter what car make model. If someone has put the effort in I appreiciate it. What I HATE is bolt on fibreglass shit and young hero's that need to be put in there place that think they own the world in there V8 VN with there music louder than there exhaust note. Maybe these are the V8's that people like racing and sucking the doors off. Also turning up your middle finger before you race them only eggs them on to really rev the hell out of there car and hopefully does internal damage while you wave at them out your window. Me, personally, wouldn't waste my time or petrol.

I aim to pick on some of the bigger street machine V8's , nissan turbos and rotary's just to show them what the little humble VW can do. Not because I want to prove anything, just to see how it stands up and to see how the machine that I have created can go. VW's have been blowing away all sorts of cars for year, so why stop now.
See you soon Dave,
T54

I agree with all that T54