fairly high?, increasing axel width etc. etc. Alot of buggy/baja offroad questions. plz help....
I was wondering what alternatives there are to raising up a buggy or baja pretty high.
From what I have seen, what people have done is to install trailing arms in the front and rear. (Well, I think thats what they are called)
Has anyone else got em'? How do they go? Can anyone give any pics?
Anyone else got any other good methods into raising the vehicle to a high pose? How did u go about it? Hows the performance? are they lasting pretty well? What skills did it require to install/modify?
Are there any kits or packs to raise vehicles pretty high?
Where did ya get em'?
Soz for all these questions, but there flooding my mind. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Post any pics if you feel it would help.
Thanks everyone,
Cheers,
Chris.:thumb
It would be mad to have a baja like this: (the following picture). However, I have heard that the fenders must fully cover the wheels to comply with the adrs. Therefore, couldn't you just modify the fenders on the baja kit to cover em'? Would it be able to be registerable?
What would I need to purchase to get a baja looking like this? (up high, wide axels, u know...)
All VWs have trailing arms, its not something you add.
To get a baja like that in your pic, the set-up it would most likly run is
Front: Widened K+L beam, longer/wider trailing arms, long travel coil over shocks.
They are the basic ingrediants for a wide, long travel front end. pretty expensive.
Alternitively it could be ball-joint with 181 trailing arms and spindles, or BJ lift spindles. Basically stock suspension travel (~5.5") but raised via the lower mounted stub axles.
Rear is IRS, looks like about 3x3 diagonal arms (3" wider, 3" longer than stock VW Type1 IRS arms) Has to be long travel coil over, means you need relocated shock mounts, most likly tied into a roll cage.
Also needs CVs with more articulation (Bus, porsche 914 930 etc)
Long travel suspension requires longer shocks ( new mounts have to be fabbed, not so hard on the front but rear you basically need to have a roll cage to tie into) Also stock VW torsion bars cannot be used due to the extra twist so coil over shocks have to be used ($$$$$$)
If you think you can have a bug like that in oz, you are dreaming, ADRs state that suspension travel has to be within *I think* 20% of stock travel.
[Edited on 6/6/2005 by Chewy]
Chewy 路
P.S buy Jeff Hibbards Baja Bugs and Buggies NOW!
bajachris88 路
Dam, that sux about the adrs. What happens if you make it classed as an ICV? Then you would have the change the engine and all to pass emissions and noise, but is there any way possible?
helbus 路
Get $25,000 and you should be well on your way to an ICV
barls 路
not only the engine but the whole car ie side intrusion bars and all that stuff
Mad Manx 路
rego it standard, then do subtle mods that wont attract to much attention
or
buy a car trailer and build yourself and offroad only car
bajachris88 路
True, but then there isn't much I could do with it if its only offroad. I couldn't drive it home, or drive it on any government owned road, wouldn't I? (cause of it not being registed/complianced)
Any using it for offroad racing would be too expensive to travel around aus and pay to get into the races? (I would imagine)
hmm, its hard. If only someone made vehicles like this baja, so it ain't classed as an icv or modified vehicle. Rather, it would actually be a standard, production vehicle and would be able to pass. ( I again imagine)
sigh.
bigbaja 路
i sell you mine for $20000
its about as modified as you can get
helbus 路
Hey Chris if you have the $25,000 I spoke about earlier, you will have $5000 change with this one 馃檪
bigbaja 路
or for me to build it for you through the shop will cost you well over $35000 and still not look the ones in the photos
Andy42 路
Or you could buy my buggy when it is finished but it would be about double the price of terrys so you may be better of with his. 馃槑
But if you intend to build something more extreme then ordinary you better have a full wallet and lots of patients to get it through Main Roads as you can Bet your life you will get pulled up by the cops and have them check it over.
MikeM 路
In QLD if you are building a Baja you had best get friendly with the Modifications Handbook found here:
Basically it states stuff like:
Suspension travel cannot be modified by more then 1/3 of the distance to the bump stops
Wheels cannot be more the 1.3 times the widest optional wheel
Wheels must fit within the guards when viewed from above
Wheel track cannot be increases any more then 26mm
etc etc, best to read it yourself.
You will also want to read the Light Vehicle code of Practice. You need to subscribe to QLD Transport and pay an annual fee to get this but any Blue Plate engineer will have a copy. Places like COR will have a copy.
[Edited on 6/6/2005 by MikeM]
bajachris88 路
Thanks guys, I appreciate all ur help.
Thanks for the offers on the bajas and buggies, but ATM I'm too poor. I got to save up for a few years, but at the moment, I'm just at the planning stage to understand what I wanna be saving up for.
Some pics of what you can get me would be great. Thats if you would be able to get any.
Thanks again all.
hmm, maybe get a big 4x4 Landcruiser chassis, cut it up, and slap on the vee dub baja body would do the trick. Doubt it. maybe not. Well, I dunno, but you have to honestly say, those bajas look insane.馃槑
~air fooled~ 路
become a yankee.... go live over there where nearly anything can be registered...
Sandy 路
You can spend a lot of money on this stuff and there's lots of possibilities. Unfortunately there's only so much you can do legally. Have a look at Baja Wes's website, his suspension is fairly stock, but it still has good height, you don't really need any more. Alternatively if you want something better, do a search on here, there was some pictures of Mike Sharps new suspension set up posted a while back.
Chewy 路
hmm, maybe get a big 4x4 Landcruiser chassis, cut it up, and slap on the vee dub baja body would do the trick
The VW chassis/eng/trans and suspension design is what makes it great for off-road... a land crusier chassis is a COMPLETELY different design.
Not taking a stab at you but it doesnt really sound like you understand how the VW suspension designs work, and why they are so great for offroad.
Heres a stock VW chassis , coincidently mine... if you know the names of all the front suspension parts then you prob do understand how it works but if not..
ROTORBUG 路
Heres a pic of my rear end with lengthened and widened rear trailing arms. I fabricated mounts for twin shocks and adjustable coil spring seats. has 14" travel and you can wind up the spring mounts for more height if you need it.
As for all that legal stuff ...yeah well.
pete wood 路
have you shortened your sump yet rotorbug?
bajachris88 路
I have heard good things about the suspension, I know that for a buggy I was looking at, apparently the vw suspension was good in that it did'nt have McPherson struts, but rather just shockies (well, on the earlier dubs like the 1500s, not the L).
But yeah, but better just get that book and learn from it ay. I can't say I know a great deal, but yeah, I'm just learning at the moment.
How are they far better compared to the big 4x4s? I know that I hear alot about the offroad vee dubs being far better, and always stronger and able to perform better on the rough.
I personally do believe they are, but its just a gut feeling and luv for vee dubs that has my opinion on that. lol rather than knowledge. I know they are far lighter, and apparently that really helps.
ROTORBUG 路
have you shortened your sump yet rotorbug?
Yeah i know.. the rotary hangs down an extra 100mm than the old vw motor....
had to make a skidplate out of 3mm chequer plate that bolts to the underside of the rear cage.
I leave it off unless i know Im gonna need it.
plough 路
But yeah, but better just get that book and learn from it ay. I can't say I know a great deal, but yeah, I'm just learning at the moment.
I think and i am sure many will agree, that you should learn buy actually getting a buggy and driving it for a awhile. You then learn better how everything works and how to improve and build your "dream buggy". Make sure your budget includes this first learning buggy
bajachris88 路
True, I should. The only way to learn really well is to get one and actually drive, maintain, service and use it. Nothing beats learning by personal experience.
Yeah, I would like to get a cheap buggy for my 1st. Just throw in a couple grand, and then I will look around, as well as post in avd asking what people are willing to offer me for what I got.
I can't wait till I get one though. Oh, I can hear the engine roar already.
Chewy 路
Just get a beetle first and pull it apart...
bajachris88 路
Yeah. I will be looking for a 1500 beetle (1967 to 1971 I think) around xmas or early 2006. Something cheap.
Thats what I was originally planning to do, until I saw a few cheap buggies on carsales.com.au. But beetle is cheaper. 馃槈
Plus then I can experience the whole beetle to buggy transformation. hmm, definitely good advise. I should really go that way.
Thanks alot mate, u have helped heaps in getting all the info I need, so I can have a good strategy and all with the future buggy hobby. (expensive, but looks dam fun!!!)
[Shakes hands] And thanks to all others now. I can see the light at the tunnel. Now, I'm gonna save up for a 1500 beetle (Cause I know that the buggies I have been looking require a 1500 floorpan/rolling chassis).
Just got to work out which buggy I should get. Seeing legally I'm not able to get a swb certified, i will have to get a lwb. I don't mind. If I raise it up enough with big tyres and all, they can look pretty cool. hmmm.
Any recommendations on what model buggy I should get?
pete wood 路
Chewy, Have you actually built a buggy from scratch?:o
Chris, if you can buy a buggy for cheaper then buy it. No offence, but bugger the "I want to experience it for myself" crap. It's just hippy propaganda. It's also bad financial planning.
If someone had told me all the crap I'd go through to build mine, I wouldn't have done it. I'd have bought one instead.
Then read through my buggy build up pages. But realise this. Most of it was just plain hard work and lots of cash. For nearly a year I went out every thursday (my day off at the time) and bought stuff. Thousands and thousands of bucks worth of stuff. And that was before I really started working on the car. And there were issues too. Some times it made me so upset I couldn't sleep. TheEngine loom for the subaru made me want to cry, seriously.
So please don't get romantic. Building buggies is 99% custom or you pay serious bucks for custom stuff other people have done (Ie, Custom off road). Most things don't just fit.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, save your wallet and your girlfriend/parents lots of stress and buy one if you can.
[Edited on 9/6/2005 by pete wood]
MikeM 路
I bought a Manx, drove it around for 4 years, and decided I wanted a tougher one. So I bought a junker with papers and started from scratch.
The 2nd Manx has been in build now for a bit over a year. It has its ups and its downs but overall I've enjoyed it. Depends on your personality, your skills and whether you see it as hard work or a hobby. During the build I have kept the mindset that it is a Hobby that I do in spare time. I'm not married and I don't have Kids so I have more time then most I guess.
The most frustrating part I've found with the whole process has been waiting for custom parts. Not my lack of time.
The Manx I am building you cannot buy. And I've had enough of buying someone elses problem when it comes to second hand cars.
Chewy 路
pete wood wrote:Chewy, Have you actually built a buggy from scratch?:o
No..
but I have *almost* finished building my off road bug..
pete wood 路
Mike I can see what your are saying. You guys are lucky enough to have a buggy specialist close. No one in sydney had any interest in buggies when I first got mine. I had to learn lots of hard lessons because of that. The point I am making is, it's hard work and takes cash. I think having one first and then building a better one is much better proposition than just starting blind like I did.
pete wood 路
Chewy wrote:
pete wood wrote:Chewy, Have you actually built a buggy from scratch?:o
No..
but I have *almost* finished building my off road bug..
Congrats. No offense intended, but the two are quite different, buggies have issues with wiring, windscreens, wipers, roll cages and other stuff you shouldn't have to worry about on a Baja.
Chewy 路
I know I know... I have no buggy experiance whatsoever.. .
But still I believe these kinds of things are only as hard as you make them.
bajachris88 路
Oh, I think I have just found out another reason why the vw based offroader is better. Is it cause the rear uses shockies, AS WELL AS the torsion bar and can easily be adjusted and is simple to maintain and tinker around with? I was just reading an article on how to raise the rear end. The parts look familiar from my mates bug. Quite interesting.
Oh, lol. The article I was reading was based on that book you recommended me. lol I have got to get that book.
[Edited on 9/6/2005 by mynameischris88]
MikeM 路
We've already discussed this In another thread that "mynameischris88" started.
But I recommened - Buy a relatively cheap Buggy/Baja. Drive it around and learn about it. Decide whether you really want to build one from scrath.
Chewy 路
The torsion bar is just the spring, the "shockies" are dampeners (control the motion of the spring)
All cars have both springs and dampeners, they just differ by how they are aranged.
Some cars (like the crusier you talked about) have leaf springs and dampers (seperate)
Some cars (like ones with Mcpherson strut) Have the damper and a coil spring as a single unit
Others still have a coil spring and damper as seperate units (newer 4wds)
And others, like the VW and valiant charger, use a torsion spring (a peice of steel which is twisted to create torsional spring force) and dampers.
The vw suspension is so good because of the design VW used to incorperate the torsion bars (actually leafs in the front, bars in the rear, to further confuse you) is insanely overbuilt.
If you look at other car suspension designs, the control arms are usually just pressed sheet steel peices, the VW uses forged and cast parts which are FAR stronger.
Also the wheel travel geometry is perfect for offroad, because the wheel travels through an arc, the wheel moves back, up and away from the object it hits greatly reducing the stress on the front end.
Other cars (like the superbug with mcpherson strut) the wheel travel is only vertically up and down, with no front/rear deflection, any object hit that forces the wheel backwards puts great shock loads on the sus components.
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? 路
I like building them alest i know what has been done to it and what needs to be done to it. i know what i need to buy to get it where i want to go and thats not much the only thing i have bought for mine is a kombi box mounting kit and i regret buying that i should have made it a mate made his in two afternoons so that would have saved me money there my last car owed me $300 and a grand after buying some bits to build a type4 the new car will cost me around $4500 $5000 but most of that is motor. Its all about shopping around talking to people that know and have been there and done that and finding out what you need and what is just a expensive shinny thing that don't help you get up the hills take my last baja the thing was a sh^t box didn't even have door cards or floor matts and im a trimmer but the thing got further than just about all i think there has only been two vws that iv'e been out driving with that have got somwhere that i couldn't and one was the tow'd and the other was a manx with heaps of moey spent on it, the engine would have been worth more than all three of my cars let alone the rest of it so look around and find out what want to do and how far you want to go the sky is the limmit.
bajachris88 路
Thanks mudbashing and everyone else. Yeah, looking and research is the key. Now I got a basic idea on suspension, so thats good. Can't wait until I get the beetle though, cause I know it will be dam fun the muck around with.
But with every mod you do to the beetle, do you have to get it certified? How strict are they for certification? Can you fabricate ur own pieces (like body work)? You wouldn't have to get your suspension certified if you raise it would you?
MikeM 路
Chris,
Are you paying attention?
Read this. It outlines what you can and can't do.
MikeM wrote:In QLD if you are building a Baja you had best get friendly with the Modifications Handbook found here:
Basically it states stuff like:
Suspension travel cannot be modified by more then 1/3 of the distance to the bump stops
Wheels cannot be more the 1.3 times the widest optional wheel
Wheels must fit within the guards when viewed from above
Wheel track cannot be increases any more then 26mm
etc etc, best to read it yourself.
You will also want to read the Light Vehicle code of Practice. You need to subscribe to QLD Transport and pay an annual fee to get this but any Blue Plate engineer will have a copy. Places like COR will have a copy.
bajachris88 路
Oh righteo, soz. Brain a lil' fried from exam week, now that its the evening of my last day of school, my brain has gone on vacation.
Thanks for the reminder mikem.
VDUBXTC 路
maybe something like this is what you are after chris?
pete wood 路
that looks tops. who owns it?
Sandy 路
Geez
bajachris88 路
Yeah manx_xtc, that would be a mad-ass baja. I wouldn't mind that at all.
Yeah, who owns it? How much $$$ did they have to put in it? Got any more pics?
Thats for the pic xtc. Oh, how was ur move? (Thats if you have moved houses yet)
Brad 路
Best thing to do is buy "the book" from Jeff.
Baja Buggies and Sand Rails ( I think)
bajachris88 路
True, then I can plan and know exactly what I am wanting to get and do. And then I can shop around and get prices, and do up a budget plan.馃檪