stephenianjames ·
I'm pondering a Subaru engine conversion for the Karmann Ghia. I know this may anger some folks, but what is the general consensus?
Aussieveedubbers · General Chit Chat
Thoughts on Karmann Ghia-Subaru conversion
https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/threads/40925/thoughts-on-karmann-ghia-subaru-conversion
kombi_kid ·
go for it dude i recon it would be mad!!! theres enough karmann ghia's around !!!
cheers
rhys:P:P:P:P:P
cheers
rhys:P:P:P:P:P
bajachris88 ·
Go for it mate. Its ur car, and its modern day. Time to give it a lil' freshen up i say!!! Its got so many benefits, its not funny. As long as it has some form of vw component on the car, its still a vee dub, so go for it.
Lets see, theres extra power, less fuel consumption, greater reliability, better emissions, better sounding, noice to soup up, efficient .... blah! blah!
ANd of course, it comes with all that computers and stuff that tells u whats wrong when something is not going right in the engine, even when u don't notice that there is anything wrong in the engine. (thats what i luv about it)
If u wanna do it, go for it mate, i'll back u up the whole way. Just keep us posted on it!!! U could even possibilty try to work out where to put the radiator in the bonnet with a bonnet scoop cooling it if u wanted to, if u were willing to freshen up the whole look.
The idea is that it gives personality and originality to u and ur ride. And plus all those other benefits i said before with the engine. But ay, im the kind of guy who would baja a ghia (crazy and senseless person), cause i believe that if its urs, u have a right to do what the heck u wanna do to it, no matter what others say!!!
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
Lets see, theres extra power, less fuel consumption, greater reliability, better emissions, better sounding, noice to soup up, efficient .... blah! blah!
ANd of course, it comes with all that computers and stuff that tells u whats wrong when something is not going right in the engine, even when u don't notice that there is anything wrong in the engine. (thats what i luv about it)
If u wanna do it, go for it mate, i'll back u up the whole way. Just keep us posted on it!!! U could even possibilty try to work out where to put the radiator in the bonnet with a bonnet scoop cooling it if u wanted to, if u were willing to freshen up the whole look.
The idea is that it gives personality and originality to u and ur ride. And plus all those other benefits i said before with the engine. But ay, im the kind of guy who would baja a ghia (crazy and senseless person), cause i believe that if its urs, u have a right to do what the heck u wanna do to it, no matter what others say!!!
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
helbus ·
No anger here. I think you will get some interesting looks when it is finished
bajachris88 ·
I can see it and hear it now. Oh my god that would be awesome with metallic paint, bagged suspension and shiny mags, and with that subi reving. OHHH! (drool drool)
soz, Just the possibilities of fully pimping a ghia. Cost a bit though, but subi it for sure!!!
soz, Just the possibilities of fully pimping a ghia. Cost a bit though, but subi it for sure!!!
VWCOOL ·
Nice big engien bay for all those cam covers... but the radiator... :duh
Boostn ·
Hey even a better idea, buy a subaru and save a ghia.
Che Castro ·
Go for it. Just don't put mesh in the bonnet for a radiator 😉 I think that looks terrible when its done on beetles.
Or just buy a subaru 🙂
Or just buy a subaru 🙂
VWFREAK ·
Being a KG owner myself I would consider that to be a real shame given there the ultimate vw.
Thants just my opition
Thants just my opition
matara ·
Those nostrils would make good radiator intakes! Be careful though, as you are limiting your potential resale audience for a modified ghia!
I would still like to see it done!
Cheers
Steve
I would still like to see it done!
Cheers
Steve
Brett ·
Go Porsche aircoled motor, it will cost more but you will get most of the benifits with less mods
Grey 57 ·
do it steve. as the owner of a seriously modified ghia i reckon a subie motor is a great idea. If the porsche motor in my T34 gave up the ghost it would be replaced with a subie motor for sure. Plenty of room up the front for a radiator and having a proper heater and good power and fuel consumption are bonuses.
Would sound great too with the right exhaust.
What about 5 speed subi box too. Is this possible? Can you reverse the crown wheel on these like you can with a VW gear box.
Would sound great too with the right exhaust.
What about 5 speed subi box too. Is this possible? Can you reverse the crown wheel on these like you can with a VW gear box.
Menangler ·
I'm with you Pete (bone collector) would be a shame.
Whats wrong with a VW engine anyhow, if you can afford a Ghia surely you can afford to rebuild a nice VW engine.
Whats wrong with a VW engine anyhow, if you can afford a Ghia surely you can afford to rebuild a nice VW engine.
Che Castro ·
I would have thought the nostrils may have been a bit small for an air intake? A flat 6 would be cool, but if you are going to chop the body, you might as well just put in an EJ20T. Much much cheaper for more power.
stephenianjames ·
Hmmm...some interesting responses! I am erring towards the conversion but the radiator issue is the only real issue for me.
As for originality vs modified debate, I guess that any mods can theoretically be undone with enough work. As my car needs quite a bit of rust work done anyway, I feel I'm not really butchering good metal in the first place.
I'd be really interested to hear thoughts on possible cooling situations, and also possible gearbox alternatives. I wont go through with the conversion if an ugly front radiator is the only solution. I am thinking a couple of subtle side vents might be the go, but I guess I really need to find out how much cooling I'll actually need.
I have only had the car for 6 days now (but who's counting) and I'm unlikely to get started on any rust repairs within the next few months.
As for originality vs modified debate, I guess that any mods can theoretically be undone with enough work. As my car needs quite a bit of rust work done anyway, I feel I'm not really butchering good metal in the first place.
I'd be really interested to hear thoughts on possible cooling situations, and also possible gearbox alternatives. I wont go through with the conversion if an ugly front radiator is the only solution. I am thinking a couple of subtle side vents might be the go, but I guess I really need to find out how much cooling I'll actually need.
I have only had the car for 6 days now (but who's counting) and I'm unlikely to get started on any rust repairs within the next few months.
MikeM ·
I say do it but don't modify the body externally at all. Keep it sleeper look.
Maybe you could do like Wes did and put the radiator above the gearbox.
More photos here:
http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/V6_baja/december.html
Or click on V6 Transplant Diary up the top here.
http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/
Maybe you could do like Wes did and put the radiator above the gearbox.
More photos here:
http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/V6_baja/december.html
Or click on V6 Transplant Diary up the top here.
http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/
eirecooled ·
buy a subi if you want subi power. halfbreeds are for people with too much money and love lining engineers pockets for approvals to change any part from standard. Ghias are top of tree as far as air cooled models are concerned for me. (Hebmullers are just dream material) resale value will be affected by any modified drivetrain that is not easy to reverse. Just remember all those Splitties with the round rear wheel arches that were also a popular mod. and now are regarded as a horror story.
But you put the money down, you decide.
But you put the money down, you decide.
pete wood ·
you can say that again. Have you listened to the movie file of the EJ22 powered manx? Better than your average rexie.Grey 57 wrote:Would sound great too with the right exhaust.
What about 5 speed subi box too. Is this possible? Can you reverse the crown wheel on these like you can with a VW gear box.
sadly, you can't flip the crown wheel in suby boxes.
[Edited on 24/6/2005 by pete wood]
Grey 57 ·
Sleeper look is the way to go I reckon, the radiator grills could be placed under the front bumper to hide them a bit.
Dunno about the "half breed" comments. If we all drove Resto custom VW's with roof racks and empi 5 spokes the shows would be pretty damn boring. !!!
Late model mechanicals into old VW's will keep them were they should be. On the road.
Bugger about the subie box. I was hoping that it was possible
Dunno about the "half breed" comments. If we all drove Resto custom VW's with roof racks and empi 5 spokes the shows would be pretty damn boring. !!!
Late model mechanicals into old VW's will keep them were they should be. On the road.
Bugger about the subie box. I was hoping that it was possible
jnr356 ·
save the subi for the eureka steve
stephenianjames ·
Mmmmm...I'm getting more and more excited about the conversion. I appreciate everyone's comments..both for and against. I guess it's do or die, because I keep thinking about doing a conversion on a great car and if I dont do it now I never will.
If the car was mint I wouldn't go through with the mods, but as it's fairly rough anyway I think it's begging for a new lease of life! As for cooling issues etc, I think almost any problem can be solved with some lateral thinking, so I'll concentrate on getting the guts of the conversion done first, and then worry about cooling etc.
If the car was mint I wouldn't go through with the mods, but as it's fairly rough anyway I think it's begging for a new lease of life! As for cooling issues etc, I think almost any problem can be solved with some lateral thinking, so I'll concentrate on getting the guts of the conversion done first, and then worry about cooling etc.
jvl054 ·
Come to the darkside my friend,you will benifit from the grunt of a subie:vader You dont have to buy a big oversize radiator to keep it cool.Just remember the lenght of water hoses all the lenght the water travels is part of the cooling.Design a radiator,design a scoop and feed the air to it.Thers no need to do any urgly cutting to keep it cool,just think about it.😉JVLRacing
stephenianjames ·
OK I'll do it!
Now just have to figure out where the hell to start.
As for resale value, I'm not really that concerned as I plan on keeping the car long term and getting enjoyment out of it.
Thanks again for everyone's opinions.
Steve
Now just have to figure out where the hell to start.
As for resale value, I'm not really that concerned as I plan on keeping the car long term and getting enjoyment out of it.
Thanks again for everyone's opinions.
Steve
jvl054 ·
Keep us posted ,love to help you!😉JVLRacing
helbus ·
You may be able to get finned stainless pipe to run to the front of the KG and that would really give you an edge on the coolio side of things. I have seen 3/4" stuff, so maybe there is a 38mm type? Would be very exy, but work cool.
helbus ·
You may be able to get finned stainless pipe to run to the front of the KG and that would really give you an edge on the coolio side of things. I have seen 3/4" stuff, so maybe there is a 38mm type? Would be very exy, but work cool.
stephenianjames ·
Just a brief update.
Havent had a chance to start on the car however I have sourced a couple of suby EJ22's (one complete with loom, ECU etc and one basically complete minus a few bits). I am also buying a rust free IRS pan which will speed up the process (even though I've part paid for some floorpans).
For those morally opposed to chopping up a ghia I apologise, but this is what I want to do and I'm not really concerned about resale prices etc. For those not morally opossed to Subaru-fying a KG then I'd appreciate any tips and advice along the way!
This is gonna be sweet
Havent had a chance to start on the car however I have sourced a couple of suby EJ22's (one complete with loom, ECU etc and one basically complete minus a few bits). I am also buying a rust free IRS pan which will speed up the process (even though I've part paid for some floorpans).
For those morally opposed to chopping up a ghia I apologise, but this is what I want to do and I'm not really concerned about resale prices etc. For those not morally opossed to Subaru-fying a KG then I'd appreciate any tips and advice along the way!
This is gonna be sweet
MikeM ·
Were did you source the EJ22's? Did you get them from a wreckers or from an Auction etc?stephenianjames wrote:I have sourced a couple of suby EJ22's (one complete with loom, ECU etc and one basically complete minus a few bits).
Thanks
Michael
Doug Sweetman ·
Go for it, but do it properly I reckon. If it is a rough one, then think of it as giving it a new lease on life. Its not like KG's are really rare anyway - They made 365,000 coupe's and about 79,000 convertibles 🙂
Everyone thinks ovals are rare too, but they made half a million of them too.....
There is a KG in Perth with a 12A rotary in it.....
Everyone thinks ovals are rare too, but they made half a million of them too.....
There is a KG in Perth with a 12A rotary in it.....
helbus ·
Gee my EH Holden is rarer!
stephenianjames ·
Were did you source the EJ22's? Did you get them from a wreckers or from an Auction etc?
Thanks
Michael [/quote]
Hi Michael,
I stumbled across a Subaru forum when searching for suby engines to buy.
The site address is:
www.ausubaru.com
I didnt have to look far to find the engines for sale and there appears to be plenty of different suby engines so you should find what you're chasing.
As for EH's being rarer..maybe worldwide they are but I'd reckon there would be more EH's smoking around in OZ than KG's! But I take your point.
Not sure about the rotary in the KG but I guess it's no different to what I'm doing!
I doubt there will be any updates for a while but I'll keep any progress posted.
Thanks
Michael [/quote]
Hi Michael,
I stumbled across a Subaru forum when searching for suby engines to buy.
The site address is:
www.ausubaru.com
I didnt have to look far to find the engines for sale and there appears to be plenty of different suby engines so you should find what you're chasing.
As for EH's being rarer..maybe worldwide they are but I'd reckon there would be more EH's smoking around in OZ than KG's! But I take your point.
Not sure about the rotary in the KG but I guess it's no different to what I'm doing!
I doubt there will be any updates for a while but I'll keep any progress posted.
Brad ·
After measuring up a KG the other day I reckon you can get it in without cutting bugger all. Radiator will fit fine in front and if you are starting with a bare pan run the tubes down the tunnel. This will keep the under side clean.
The EJ 22 will fit in without hardly any cutting at all. Much less cutting then say fitting a Turbo TYpe 1 ....
I think it will be a great conversion and after doing a few A/C setups on KG's on 1915 type 1 engines I think the EJ 22 will give you a lot more options with stuff like that.
Look fwd to seeing how it comes togeather for you.
Cheers,
The EJ 22 will fit in without hardly any cutting at all. Much less cutting then say fitting a Turbo TYpe 1 ....
I think it will be a great conversion and after doing a few A/C setups on KG's on 1915 type 1 engines I think the EJ 22 will give you a lot more options with stuff like that.
Look fwd to seeing how it comes togeather for you.
Cheers,
karmannghia60 ·
Hey Steph, have you worked out the cost of such a conversion? Would it be better if you get a 356 or a 912 engine? No cutting, about the same power and certainly will improve the value
Good luck
Raf
Good luck
Raf
stephenianjames ·
Thanks Brad..your opinion is encouraging! I will be in touch shortly regarding buying the adaptor bits and pieces neccessary.
Raf, I havent considered the 2 Porsche engines you considered, as I really like the idea of modern, fuel injected engines as opposed to rebuilt, older technology engines for this converison (not that there is anything wrong with the older engines). I have already paid a deposit on the Suby engines and will be making the drive from Melbourne to Sydney and back this weekend to collect them. So I guess you could say that the choice of engine has been locked in.
Raf, I havent considered the 2 Porsche engines you considered, as I really like the idea of modern, fuel injected engines as opposed to rebuilt, older technology engines for this converison (not that there is anything wrong with the older engines). I have already paid a deposit on the Suby engines and will be making the drive from Melbourne to Sydney and back this weekend to collect them. So I guess you could say that the choice of engine has been locked in.
Paddo ·
I say go for it Steve. When its all said and done u have to follow ur dream. Good luck with it, its gunna be a long road but hopefully worth it.
On another note, hows the bubonic plague going? Heard u infected ya missus! I know they are a good source of protein, but eating rat is just plain nasty!
On another note, hows the bubonic plague going? Heard u infected ya missus! I know they are a good source of protein, but eating rat is just plain nasty!
stephenianjames ·
Just returned from a mammoth drive to pick up the 2 suby engines. I left work in Richmond, Melbourne last night (Friday) at 5pm...battled Melbourne peak hour traffic to get onto the Hume and after about an hour I made it about 20km out of the CBD...stopped at Gundagai for the night (got there at about 11pm). I got up this morning at 6am (it was -3 degrees) and kept going to Wollongong and arrived there @ approx 10am..loaded the engines up and left there by 11am and headed back to Melbourne. All in all I covered approx 1700km in just over 24hours!
Anway I now have the engines, and will be making a similar drive to Adelaide in a few weeks to pick up an IRS floorpan.
Time to crash now!
Anway I now have the engines, and will be making a similar drive to Adelaide in a few weeks to pick up an IRS floorpan.
Time to crash now!
zjm ·
while your at it stick the motor in the front and perhaps
go all wheel drive
perhaps modify it to look like a subaru vortex :repuke
go all wheel drive
perhaps modify it to look like a subaru vortex :repuke
Grey 57 ·
Big drive hey Steve. All the bits are coming together. Cant wait to see some progress shots when you get stuck into it. Another Karmann Ghia custom. whoo hoo.:thumb:thumb We will have to form a spinter group at the next show mate.
We will call it "What Karmann should have built"
T1 Karmann with WRX power
T3 Karmann with 911 power
:thumb
Others might call it the "Freak Show" and thats kewl. Everyones entitled to thier opinions no matter how dumb they are.:P
We will call it "What Karmann should have built"
T1 Karmann with WRX power
T3 Karmann with 911 power
:thumb
Others might call it the "Freak Show" and thats kewl. Everyones entitled to thier opinions no matter how dumb they are.:P
stephenianjames ·
Yeah Dean..'twas a massive drive and I'm still buggered 24 hours after arriving home. I haven't had a chance to take pics of those seat bases for you mate but will in next day or so.
The car wont initially have WRX power (although the idea is eventually to go that route). The engines I bought are naturally aspirated EJ22's from early 90's model Liberties, but will still have plenty of get up and go. The better of the 2 engines has done approx 190000kms and the second engine is basically a spare parts engine (having done apparently 500000kms) Having said that, the parts engine is supposedly still a good runner, with very slight oil consumption and no apparent smoke from the exhaust. This is encouraging and makes me thinik it will be a worthwhile long term conversion.
The biggest challenge I reckon will be making sense of that bloody wiring loom! There are literally thousands of wires and will take many hours of brainstorming to suss it out. My auto electrical skills are pretty basic
The car wont initially have WRX power (although the idea is eventually to go that route). The engines I bought are naturally aspirated EJ22's from early 90's model Liberties, but will still have plenty of get up and go. The better of the 2 engines has done approx 190000kms and the second engine is basically a spare parts engine (having done apparently 500000kms) Having said that, the parts engine is supposedly still a good runner, with very slight oil consumption and no apparent smoke from the exhaust. This is encouraging and makes me thinik it will be a worthwhile long term conversion.
The biggest challenge I reckon will be making sense of that bloody wiring loom! There are literally thousands of wires and will take many hours of brainstorming to suss it out. My auto electrical skills are pretty basic
Paddo ·
Ur crazy Steve. U missed a bloody monster of a night on saturday, I am so hung over it feels like I just drove to wollongong and back in 24hrs.:P
My wallet feels a little lighter too.:cry
My wallet feels a little lighter too.:cry
VWCOOL ·
I hope you got the engines for free....stephenianjames wrote:Yeah Dean..'twas a massive drive and I'm still buggered 24 hours after arriving home. I haven't had a chance to take pics of those seat bases for you mate but will in next day or so.
The car wont initially have WRX power (although the idea is eventually to go that route). The engines I bought are naturally aspirated EJ22's from early 90's model Liberties, but will still have plenty of get up and go. The better of the 2 engines has done approx 190000kms and the second engine is basically a spare parts engine (having done apparently 500000kms) Having said that, the parts engine is supposedly still a good runner, with very slight oil consumption and no apparent smoke from the exhaust. This is encouraging and makes me thinik it will be a worthwhile long term conversion.
The biggest challenge I reckon will be making sense of that bloody wiring loom! There are literally thousands of wires and will take many hours of brainstorming to suss it out. My auto electrical skills are pretty basic
Don't bother with wiring it yourself - unless you know a fair bit about management systems, you will go crazy. Ring and ask Sunspares Subaru in Qld (07) 5472 7222 for advice... they modify Subie harneses for conversion. A harness and PCM modified (security disabled etc) to suit your car should be less than $700. There is also a mob in Sydney that can assist but I don't know the name right now...
squizy ·
You should be able to mount the radiator in the spare wheel well, and just open up underneath. That way it will all be out of site, and easy to put back if you decide to.
Glad to see you're going for it.
Glad to see you're going for it.
71superbug ·
yeah man. i say good luck with the conversion just make sure you decide to put up a thread following the conversion..
may i ask why you decided to go the (rather high milage) ej22 over an import ej20t?
Anthony
may i ask why you decided to go the (rather high milage) ej22 over an import ej20t?
Anthony
bugDbug ·
Last issue of Volksworld had couple of pics of a V8 transplant into the front of a Ghia. Was done very neatly and the radiator sat in the spare wheel area. No cuts or modification to the body work.
Bob
Bob
stephenianjames ·
VWCOOL...didnt get the engines for nothing mate...paid $800 for both engines include 1 wiring loom, ECU, crossmember, a couple of headers and one exhaust and a pile of other bits. Thanks for the info re: wiring looms...I will almost certainly do down that route (but I'll tackle the wiring almost last)
71superbug...i decided to go the EJ22 path rather than EJ20t on advice from a couple of people having done an EJ22 conversion. From what I've heard the EJ22's are good, solid, reliable engines with plenty of torque and power and at this stage I didnt really want to go down the turbo path (will probably come later once I have the car set up properly). You're right in that the engine is fairly high mileage (190000km or so) however by all reports these engines will clock up 400000kms with no major problems and I reckon I will transplant an EJ20t in before I rack up another 200000kms! And the engines seemed fairly cheap regardless and I reckon the EJ22 will have plenty of power for the time being.
Paddo..shattered I couldnt go out with ya Saturday but as you know I locked in this weekend a few weeks back and couldnt change it with the guy. I also knew a hangover would be the end result and I can ill-afford to kill any more brain cells.
71superbug...i decided to go the EJ22 path rather than EJ20t on advice from a couple of people having done an EJ22 conversion. From what I've heard the EJ22's are good, solid, reliable engines with plenty of torque and power and at this stage I didnt really want to go down the turbo path (will probably come later once I have the car set up properly). You're right in that the engine is fairly high mileage (190000km or so) however by all reports these engines will clock up 400000kms with no major problems and I reckon I will transplant an EJ20t in before I rack up another 200000kms! And the engines seemed fairly cheap regardless and I reckon the EJ22 will have plenty of power for the time being.
Paddo..shattered I couldnt go out with ya Saturday but as you know I locked in this weekend a few weeks back and couldnt change it with the guy. I also knew a hangover would be the end result and I can ill-afford to kill any more brain cells.
pete wood ·
Quick-fit motor sport in Sydney does change over looms. Got no idea what they are like, just seen an add, but I have heard round the traps that they have done heaps of conversions.
VWCOOL ·
That's the mob I mentioned... I just couldn't remember! Yes, lots of conversions over the yearspete wood wrote:Quick-fit motor sport in Sydney does change over looms. Got no idea what they are like, just seen an add, but I have heard round the traps that they have done heaps of conversions.
stephenianjames ·
Cheers guys...I will chase them up