jvl054 ·
Hey everyone,Do people feel when doing a engine conversion that they have enought info? Are people overawed with fear to go ahead knowing that they want to do it? What is it why we go through with a conversion? JVLRacing:thumb
Aussieveedubbers · Non-VW Engine Conversions
The fear doing a Engine Conversion!
https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/threads/41024/the-fear-doing-a-engine-conversion
Craig Torrens ·
what the hell are you trying to say?............are you drunk at the moment?
twoguns ·
i think its, more knowing htat you have someone who can confidently say this is it, this is what you will get or should expect, and this is what you will pay.
jvl054 ·
Come on Craig,...... Your a pro, give it a go.Maybe the chip between your ears might educate us.JVLRacing
Craig Torrens ·
Ummmmm give what a go?jvl054 wrote:Come on Craig,...... Your a pro, give it a go.Maybe the chip between your ears might educate us.JVLRacing
boof2332 ·
He doesnt need to give it a go... me thinks Craig or Glen have a wrx powered bug hiding somewhere. If not finished, then very close.
I'm smashed half the time I'm on here after 10pm...
Matt
I'm smashed half the time I'm on here after 10pm...
Matt
71superbug ·
i think the thing holding people back from an engine converson is that ther eis no guarenteed way thigns will turn out.
also comign from someone who is planning a conversion. another fear is just
"will it work as well as it should and will it get licensed"
those three thigns espescially are the thigns that make it hard to just jump into.
Anthony
also comign from someone who is planning a conversion. another fear is just
"will it work as well as it should and will it get licensed"
those three thigns espescially are the thigns that make it hard to just jump into.
Anthony
Baja Wes ·
I had no such fears, I love the challenge.
I have plans for something much more interesting and different, but have no money to do it at the moment. It would have about 150rwhp in a ~400kg buggy. 250+rwhp is you added a turbo.
I have plans for something much more interesting and different, but have no money to do it at the moment. It would have about 150rwhp in a ~400kg buggy. 250+rwhp is you added a turbo.
71superbug ·
its not a 1uzfe 4l lexus v8 is it wes? 🙂
that would be killa 🙂. only u would get much mroe than 250rwhp witha turbo on it
Anthony
that would be killa 🙂. only u would get much mroe than 250rwhp witha turbo on it
Anthony
Baja Wes ·
and you would never be able to get a buggy down to 400kg with a 200kg V8 in the back. no it's not the lexus...
jvl054 ·
Hi Baja Wes,How do you go about planning about your new project? Do you think your info will help another person to save money?All is it that we keep some of the info to ourselves and let the rest guest?:thumbJVLRacing
boof2332 ·
I had been thinking of the wrx option for years...especially when didnt own a vw(sad period of 5 years). I never thought it would be that hard..Thats why when Jak nervously introduced the idea(thought I may be a purist not a realist), it took about 5 seconds to say"f**k it, im in"
It is still a relatively new option, as more people see the cars around, it will become more popular and less daunting.
JVL...what is going on with your car..why not racing?
I keep having to buy Boost chocolate bars and boost drinks since the conversion!
Matt
It is still a relatively new option, as more people see the cars around, it will become more popular and less daunting.
JVL...what is going on with your car..why not racing?
I keep having to buy Boost chocolate bars and boost drinks since the conversion!
Matt
Doug Sweetman ·
Booost !!! love those ads....
Wes, do I smell some custom made, tube frame off road buggy (not registered), with maybe Hayabusa power ? Kinda like the mother of all off road karts ?
Wes, do I smell some custom made, tube frame off road buggy (not registered), with maybe Hayabusa power ? Kinda like the mother of all off road karts ?
Craig Torrens ·
Sounds like someone's been sniffing around my garage :o heheheheboof2332 wrote:He doesnt need to give it a go... me thinks Craig or Glen have a wrx powered bug hiding somewhere. If not finished, then very close.
I'm smashed half the time I'm on here after 10pm...
Matt
jvl054 ·
Hey Matt,money,wench,house renos and now selling while the market is holding.Matt,iam praying the house will sell in the next1 or two months.I have a package deal ready to go.....Big$$$$.........(I can say at least one thing ,wont need a coat hanger to hold up any sparkplug leads! hang on! i only run 4 plugs and not 8:P)JVLRancing
Andy42 ·
Hey Wes you have been watching those car videos with the bike engines in them again haven`t you 👍
Baja Wes ·
I think I can do a hayabusa engined street manx buggy, and have it all legal. 6-speed sequential gears and probably electric reverse. I've got it figured out I reckon.Doug Sweetman wrote:Booost !!! love those ads....
Wes, do I smell some custom made, tube frame off road buggy (not registered), with maybe Hayabusa power ? Kinda like the mother of all off road karts ?
Yes Andy I have been watching those vid's again. I reckon the buggy would work out so much better than the bike engined caterhams and westfields that are popular in the UK.
jvl054 ·
Baja Wes wrote:I think I can do a hayabusa engined street manx buggy, and have it all legal. 6-speed sequential gears and probably electric reverse. I've got it figured out I reckon.Doug Sweetman wrote:Booost !!! love those ads....
Wes, do I smell some custom made, tube frame off road buggy (not registered), with maybe Hayabusa power ? Kinda like the mother of all off road karts ?
Yes Andy I have been watching those vid's again. I reckon the buggy would work out so much better than the bike engined caterhams and westfields that are popular in the UK................. Wow! a 6speed sequential.Brings me back to the days when working on the Supertourers.Deffently no fear:thumbJVLRacingnn[ Edited on 30/6/2005 by jvl054 ]
jvl054 ·
I believe he has a big trophy cabinet....but the CHIP is bigger and respect comes cheaper.......Engine transplants are a challenge and when they do work its all worth it:thumb..JVL054
subaruboxer ·
I had no fear to go for a watercooled, reliable and cheap suby conversion. I will never ever go back to aircooled VW engines. The fuel consumption of a 34 HP VW engine is almost the same as a suby engine and you can do 120 kph. With the suby conversion you can do 200 kph.
0 - 100 kph is 37 seconds with the VW engine and 8 - 9 seconds with the suby. How much fun is that with the original engine? I was a purist for the first 2 years, but that is over now for more than 10 years. I want to ride my bug and have fun. I am not the kind of guy to ride around in a car that should stand in a museum. It is okay that other VW enthusiasts like to do that. But not me.
You got to decide what you want out of your car.
I have to admit, that now that I know how reliable subaru
engines are, I will in fact buy nothing else then subaru.
For two and a half year I am driving a subaru as a daily driver.nn[ Edited on 2-7-2005 by subaruboxer ]nn[ Edited on 2-7-2005 by subaruboxer ]
0 - 100 kph is 37 seconds with the VW engine and 8 - 9 seconds with the suby. How much fun is that with the original engine? I was a purist for the first 2 years, but that is over now for more than 10 years. I want to ride my bug and have fun. I am not the kind of guy to ride around in a car that should stand in a museum. It is okay that other VW enthusiasts like to do that. But not me.
You got to decide what you want out of your car.
I have to admit, that now that I know how reliable subaru
engines are, I will in fact buy nothing else then subaru.
For two and a half year I am driving a subaru as a daily driver.nn[ Edited on 2-7-2005 by subaruboxer ]nn[ Edited on 2-7-2005 by subaruboxer ]
jvl054 ·
:thumb:PSubaruboxer.JVL054
VWCOOL ·
Transplants are a good thing if they work better than what was there originally. If they don't - you are wasting your time.
You can't really race in any CAMS 'street' type competition classes with a Subaru (or any other retrotech/transplant) engine. And you don't need an engineers certification for a VW based engine for legal rego. But hey, if you don't ever race or don't need street rego, having a shiny trailer queen is just fine for some people, but I reckon results either on-road (I love carving corners on the roads around my place quicker than V8s etc) or on-track is far more credible and important than where your engine came from
😉
[ Edited on 3-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]nn[ Edited on 3-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
You can't really race in any CAMS 'street' type competition classes with a Subaru (or any other retrotech/transplant) engine. And you don't need an engineers certification for a VW based engine for legal rego. But hey, if you don't ever race or don't need street rego, having a shiny trailer queen is just fine for some people, but I reckon results either on-road (I love carving corners on the roads around my place quicker than V8s etc) or on-track is far more credible and important than where your engine came from
😉
[ Edited on 3-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]nn[ Edited on 3-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
jvl054 ·
[:thumbagree.JVLRacingVWCOOL wrote:Transplants are a good thing if they work better than what was there originally. If they don't - you are wasting your time.
You can't really race in any CAMS 'street' type competition classes with a Subaru (or any other retrotech/transplant) engine. And you don't need an engineers certification for a VW based engine for legal rego. But hey, if you don't ever race or don't need street rego, having a shiny trailer queen is just fine for some people, but I reckon results either on-road (I love carving corners on the roads around my place quicker than V8s etc) or on-track is far more credible and important than where your engine came from
😉
[ Edited on 3-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]nn[ Edited on 3-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
dubber91 ·
i think the main issue is 'will i spend all this money and in a years time have to weld plates over the front valance and front beam where the rad sits, and totally redo my wiring'. Plus theres the 'bodge' factor. Theres lots of nasty looking hybrid beetles and campers, vw this, porsche that, scooby this, mazda that. They were meant to work together but do they? im in the middle of a conversion now.....
🙂
🙂
helbus ·
I don't have any remorse doing the bus with a Suby motor. If it was ever to go back to VW the body would not have been changed anyway.
jvl054 ·
I still believe we do this to be individuals to show any conversions can be done.Its not because we dislike our vws,its because we are keeping up with the times and not dwelling in the past .....improvement never goes unnotice.:thumbJVLRacing
dubber91 ·
i beleive we want the best from our cars/vehicles. To do this we cannot expect to use technology from the 1930s. 70 years of improvement (and restriction in the way of catalysts and emmisions control in ECUs) leads us to the simple answer; modern engines are better.
jvl054 ·
I agree to that:thumbJVLRacingdubber91 wrote:i beleive we want the best from our cars/vehicles. To do this we cannot expect to use technology from the 1930s. 70 years of improvement (and restriction in the way of catalysts and emmisions control in ECUs) leads us to the simple answer; modern engines are better.
pete wood ·
I spose the same fear as most other things, IE, getting it wrong in an expensive way.
I'm with dubber, I want the best I can get out of my car, and when that comes at half the price of a overstressed 30year old rebuilt motor, I couldn't be happier.
I'm with dubber, I want the best I can get out of my car, and when that comes at half the price of a overstressed 30year old rebuilt motor, I couldn't be happier.
dubber91 ·
to me the rotary is the way to go. The engine rebuilds are potentially easier (not necessarily cheaper) and working where i do (a test/proving track) i work with injection every day. I may even have a play with the fuel map and see what happens....
its says something, however, when one manufacturer, has spent around 12 year developing an engine, that is more efficient than any other conventional engine after a hundreds year development.
They arent better...but the potential is there i beleive...
its says something, however, when one manufacturer, has spent around 12 year developing an engine, that is more efficient than any other conventional engine after a hundreds year development.
They arent better...but the potential is there i beleive...
jvl054 ·
Hey dubber 91,what sort of dollars all commitment would it take to set this project up?JVLRacing
VWCOOL ·
There is a reason why no other manugfacturer on the planet has taken up the rotary and mazda has only ever offered it in 'niche' models. They are actually horribly inefficient... Good specific power output for capacity/weight/size etc but efficiency is disgusting due to large surface area of combustion chambers etc etc. A Subie won't need rebuild for 300,000km at least with routine oil changes and proper (ie: not aftermarket) managementdubber91 wrote:to me the rotary is the way to go. The engine rebuilds are potentially easier (not necessarily cheaper) and working where i do (a test/proving track) i work with injection every day. I may even have a play with the fuel map and see what happens....
its says something, however, when one manufacturer, has spent around 12 year developing an engine, that is more efficient than any other conventional engine after a hundreds year development.
They arent better...but the potential is there i beleive...
Which PG? Anglesea? They're all fun!nn[ Edited on 15-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
dubber91 ·
as a test engineer at a european proving ground, i agree with what you have stated. There are other advantages though. Ease of rebuild for instance.....when it does require one, with modified stock components, i have seen rotaries with 150k on REBUILT engines. They are a doddle to rebuild and arent as expensive as you may think. They also wont blow gearboxes apart with unuseable torque; a beetle is a light car it doesnt require all of the torque that modified VW engines and scoobies put out. I agree though, scoobies are a very reliable well made engine...just not my bag. I want to stand out and i prefer revs and slipping clutches rather than torque and snapped driveshafts. Emmissions wise the rotaries are bad; i know this, and also fuel consumption wise. But find a car that can develop the same HP figures and through back good fuel consumption and ill pay you for the blueprint hear and now.....:vader
They have got a bad reputation, but i have never had one fail badly on me...
Steve
They have got a bad reputation, but i have never had one fail badly on me...
Steve
jvl054 ·
Vwcool,so does this mean you believe in subie motors.... all done a few conversions yourself?JVLRacing:oVWCOOL wrote:There is a reason why no other manugfacturer on the planet has taken up the rotary and mazda has only ever offered it in 'niche' models. They are actually horribly inefficient... Good specific power output for capacity/weight/size etc but efficiency is disgusting due to large surface area of combustion chambers etc etc. A Subie won't need rebuild for 300,000km at least with routine oil changes and proper (ie: not aftermarket) managementdubber91 wrote:to me the rotary is the way to go. The engine rebuilds are potentially easier (not necessarily cheaper) and working where i do (a test/proving track) i work with injection every day. I may even have a play with the fuel map and see what happens....
its says something, however, when one manufacturer, has spent around 12 year developing an engine, that is more efficient than any other conventional engine after a hundreds year development.
They arent better...but the potential is there i beleive...
Which PG? Anglesea? They're all fun!nn[ Edited on 15-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
helbus ·
I just like engine conversions to look neat and like they are meant to be there.
jvl054 ·
Hi Pete,got any photos of bus with subie in it.It would be great to see!!!:thumbJVLRacingHelbus wrote:I just like engine conversions to look neat and like they are meant to be there.
71superbug ·
i agree with dubber 91, rotarys have a bad rep..but with a bit of work they can be realiable enough.
sure if u pump 500+hp out of the things they wont last long..but then again..look at a hypo vw motor.
they dont last too long without rebuilds. and even then they cost the same amount to rebuild with less gains.
rotary is also the way i am going.
i also once said on Shoptalkforums..that the rotary will have more than enough torque to push a vw wherever it wants to go.
Anthony
sure if u pump 500+hp out of the things they wont last long..but then again..look at a hypo vw motor.
they dont last too long without rebuilds. and even then they cost the same amount to rebuild with less gains.
rotary is also the way i am going.
i also once said on Shoptalkforums..that the rotary will have more than enough torque to push a vw wherever it wants to go.
Anthony
jvl054 ·
Ok,which Rotary would be the best to work with...especailly with the reliability 5oohp factor?JVLRacingl
71superbug ·
a lot of rota ownerrs seem to have success with the 13bturbo. ????
obviously the newer the better.
im not sure what you mean by what you said jvl.
Anthony
obviously the newer the better.
im not sure what you mean by what you said jvl.
Anthony
jvl054 ·
Anthony,I thought the 20B would be a better motor to work with then the 13B!JVLRacing71superbug wrote:a lot of rota ownerrs seem to have success with the 13bturbo. ????
obviously the newer the better.
im not sure what you mean by what you said jvl.
Anthony
VWCOOL ·
Maybe it is too large - physically and legally
helbus ·
It is not far away now. I may have time to put the donk in next weekend. I am working hard at making stuff neat and factory looking. I want it too look like VW put it in there.
jvl054 wrote:Hi Pete,got any photos of bus with subie in it.It would be great to see!!!:thumbJVLRacingHelbus wrote:I just like engine conversions to look neat and like they are meant to be there.
71superbug ·
the 20b is too large legally..definately..classed as a 4 litre for some reason.
also..the 13b would have much more of a following and more people in the know about it..hence me saying the 13bt would be the best one to work with.
Anthony
also..the 13b would have much more of a following and more people in the know about it..hence me saying the 13bt would be the best one to work with.
Anthony
dubber91 ·
mwahahahahahaha i love livin in the UK...... no laws on 20bs...
20 Bs are VERY rare, however. as i beleive they are 3 rotor. This also makes them a lot harder to fit in the stck rear end. A 13b will require trimming of the rear valance and will be very tight if you use eurothane mountings and dont just solid mount the gearbox. It is very close to the firewall, and it i likely that pulleys need to be fettled slightly to get the rear end in. The major issue for me at the moment (i need it ready by this tuesday) is induction design; it looks like im going to have to run decklid off for a while until i can CNC up some flanges to mount up an airfilter. I honestly beleive that this conversion can be done for less than £1000 sterling if you do it yourself. I dont know what that is in dollars.
I have spent time and money developing the proceedure though; getting mounts/brackets/flanges made up is easy, but i make sure the pattern is right in the first place. The rotary will look like VW put it in there. The exhaust can be made to fit under the rear valance, and theres pleanty of room when putting it in. The engine mounting point is th most difficult part to get looking stock. I think ive achieved it. I will have pictures shortly.
If it gets in on time, the conversion will have taken about 6 days solid work.
steve
20 Bs are VERY rare, however. as i beleive they are 3 rotor. This also makes them a lot harder to fit in the stck rear end. A 13b will require trimming of the rear valance and will be very tight if you use eurothane mountings and dont just solid mount the gearbox. It is very close to the firewall, and it i likely that pulleys need to be fettled slightly to get the rear end in. The major issue for me at the moment (i need it ready by this tuesday) is induction design; it looks like im going to have to run decklid off for a while until i can CNC up some flanges to mount up an airfilter. I honestly beleive that this conversion can be done for less than £1000 sterling if you do it yourself. I dont know what that is in dollars.
I have spent time and money developing the proceedure though; getting mounts/brackets/flanges made up is easy, but i make sure the pattern is right in the first place. The rotary will look like VW put it in there. The exhaust can be made to fit under the rear valance, and theres pleanty of room when putting it in. The engine mounting point is th most difficult part to get looking stock. I think ive achieved it. I will have pictures shortly.
If it gets in on time, the conversion will have taken about 6 days solid work.
steve
jvl054 ·
Bring it on Steve!!!!:thumbshow us some photos of the rotor.JVLRacing
1303Steve ·
Hi
Im not sure how the NSW RTA works out the size on rotaries but they say "The engine capacity to be used for rotary engines is the displacement of all rotors x 2" So a 12A is 2400 cc and the 13B is 2600 cc, so I guess a 20B would be 4000 cc. Way to big for NSW rego and some other states.
dubber91, if your running IRS, move your tranny forward to give you more room.
Steve
Im not sure how the NSW RTA works out the size on rotaries but they say "The engine capacity to be used for rotary engines is the displacement of all rotors x 2" So a 12A is 2400 cc and the 13B is 2600 cc, so I guess a 20B would be 4000 cc. Way to big for NSW rego and some other states.
dubber91, if your running IRS, move your tranny forward to give you more room.
Steve
jvl054 ·
Hi Steve,bloody cold up here,snowing up Guyra 2hrs from here.Anyway is Queensland RTA laws different to ours?JVLRacing1303Steve wrote:Hi
Im not sure how the NSW RTA works out the size on rotaries but they say "The engine capacity to be used for rotary engines is the displacement of all rotors x 2" So a 12A is 2400 cc and the 13B is 2600 cc, so I guess a 20B would be 4000 cc. Way to big for NSW rego and some other states.
dubber91, if your running IRS, move your tranny forward to give you more room.
Steve
1303Steve ·
Hi John
Im pretty sure that Qld uses the same rules as NSW. There is a move to make all states the same, dont know when it will happen. Weve got a Jetmaster open fire, I feel no pain.
Steve
Im pretty sure that Qld uses the same rules as NSW. There is a move to make all states the same, dont know when it will happen. Weve got a Jetmaster open fire, I feel no pain.
Steve
jvl054 ·
I suppose best project for a 20B for a dub racecar.The fitting of the motor would be tight but with something like mind it could be done.The parts:o could be rare all hard to get your hands on i suppose.JVLRacing
dubber91 ·
parts are an issue. One vehicle to look out for i beleive is a mazda cosmo or cosmic....something along those lines.
I could potentially cut a large section from the firewall in front of the engine) and move the engine back, but i'd rather just trim the valance slightly. It will look more stock. My main issue are with radiator and ventilation. Im thinking of using the little horn grills to duct air onto the radiator...its certainly a possibility. Plus then the front scoop would be smaller and more factory looking. Ill get some pictures soon 🙂
Steve
I could potentially cut a large section from the firewall in front of the engine) and move the engine back, but i'd rather just trim the valance slightly. It will look more stock. My main issue are with radiator and ventilation. Im thinking of using the little horn grills to duct air onto the radiator...its certainly a possibility. Plus then the front scoop would be smaller and more factory looking. Ill get some pictures soon 🙂
Steve
seagull ·
I think I have seen that mazda , the gear box is so light you can lift it ( with one finger ) seen it in a book .
71superbug ·
yeah its the cosmo 20b.....very hard to find over here..only a few around..and knoweledge of the things is even harder to find.......so 13b is definately the way to go......anyone know anybody selling any rotarys? whether they are 12a NA carby fed or 20bTT motors. anything inbetween would be good to know also.
would have to be in good runnning order.
Anthony
would have to be in good runnning order.
Anthony
dubber91 ·
i dont know of anybody, but i'll tell you now that 12as are the only ones that fit correctly into the engine bay. Ive just had to trim mine away (only a small amount though) around the lip of the engine bay. I have an early valance, aso i dont know about superbugs etc....
steve
steve
crewcabconnection ·
r u talking split bus - where does the rad go? if not up front, outside...
dubber91 ·
im talking bug....
jvl054 ·
what model, year is that rotary from?JVLRacingdubber91 wrote:im talking bug....
dubber91 ·
a 1988 rx7. Non turbo. Its a 13b engine.
jvl054 ·
Do you think after doing your project that other people in the UK will do projects with rotors.......all subies still the way to go for projects? Any reason why you did not use a Turbo 13b?JVLRacingdubber91 wrote:a 1988 rx7. Non turbo. Its a 13b engine.
dubber91 ·
volksfolks over here tend to go with the subbie lump. Mainly because its a flat and works with vw gear ratios.
They are plentifull over here too.
I prefer the rotary engine; no valve noise! smooth as a smooth thing!
And they dont develop enough torque to kill gearboxes if you slip on the clutch.
Rx7s have a bad rep over here. See past that and people will do the conversion; its whether people can look past it thats the issue. I can get the adapters made up though.....
Steve
They are plentifull over here too.
I prefer the rotary engine; no valve noise! smooth as a smooth thing!
And they dont develop enough torque to kill gearboxes if you slip on the clutch.
Rx7s have a bad rep over here. See past that and people will do the conversion; its whether people can look past it thats the issue. I can get the adapters made up though.....
Steve
helbus ·
Rotors are an aquired taste. I went passenger in my brother inlaws 12A powered Mazda and the smooth continual torque was great. It was like a huge elastic band was released and was pulling you towards it.
dubber91 ·
absolutely. And even solid mounting gearboxes you have no vibration from the drivetrain, everything feels solid and the acceleration is something else....
certainly a taste aquired by me! 😀
certainly a taste aquired by me! 😀
jvl054 ·
HEY Dubber91,what flywheel and clutch mods is needed for this type of conversion?JVLRacing
dubber91 ·
clutch; you can get away with stock but i reckon a kennedy stage 1 or 2 would be nice....
Flywheel wise, its cheaper to buy one off me! but it basically invloves getting a machineshop to graft the centre from a RX7 flywheel onto the VW starter ring. Then some holes need to be drilled and tapped into the centre and a counterweight bolted onto the rear side of the flywheel. The biolts cannot protrude through, and then need skimming back and threadlockking on.
Thats it really!
Flywheel wise, its cheaper to buy one off me! but it basically invloves getting a machineshop to graft the centre from a RX7 flywheel onto the VW starter ring. Then some holes need to be drilled and tapped into the centre and a counterweight bolted onto the rear side of the flywheel. The biolts cannot protrude through, and then need skimming back and threadlockking on.
Thats it really!
jvl054 ·
Dubber91,so are you making adapter kits to suite rotor conversions?...some of your input can help with people who are doing these conversions in aussie land.Any more photos coming with your project?JVLRacing