The van runs now. Sort of. Still squeaks.

I got enough charge out of the stuffed battery today to crank the van. Even got it started briefly a couple of times.

Here's the facts:

* After a year it still starts!

* I need to keep pumping the pedal nonstop to keep it running

* It still squeaks. Even during cranking

* I silicon'd the bejeebus out of the inlet manifold to rule out leaks this time round

* In the few seconds I kept it running, it ran pretty even, unlike when it just died a year ago.

*Haven't done the compression test yet. That's next on the list

*The piston rings were tighter in the grooves than I would have liked. Some didn't fit at all so I left the originals. They were pretty new anyway. Only replaced due to breakages.

*It has high compression pistons

*it has a secondhand head


Anyone else think it may be a a ring causing problems?
Or are there any other theories. Its an 1800, so people tend to agree it's not pulled studs.

Is it a metallic type of noise or a whistle type of noise❓ Try starting it without the altenator connected to eliminate the altenator (bearings❓) Could be throwout bearing or lotsa other things...sorry cant be of more help.Does it still leak oil❓ How long did you run it for❓

Q: Is it a metallic type of noise or a whistle type of noise?
A: Undecided. Given the high pitch and short duration I can't tell.

Q: Try starting it without the altenator connected to eliminate the altenator (bearings?)
A: The sound seems to be coming from the left hand rear. Can't tell the exact origin.

Q: Does it still leak oil?
A: Yep. It's coming from the opposite side of the engine though, and it doesn't seem to be coming from the fuel pump area. Possibly around the cylinder base somewhere. Can't tell.

Q: How long did you run it for?
A: Initially when it stuffed up a year ago, anywhere up to about 15 minutes at a time. Most notable feature was it was 100% gutless. Could barely move along flat ground. It was a royal pain getting it into the shipping container.
This time around, 5 seconds or so. The "Start ya bastard" seemed to be the only thing making it run. Guess there's probably condensation in the lines.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to have another go. If I can make it run a bit longer I'll be happy. I have the remnants of the battery charging.

There was something I noticed retrospectively. I'm not 100% sure but it sounds as though the squeak is once every 2nd revolution. You know, putt-putt-putt-puttsqueak-putt etc.

Hmmmm....sounds like you've got a good one there!! It's a bit hard to suggest anything without auctually hearing it so i guess you will have a better chance of finding the source of the noise if you run it longer.A compression test might rule out pulled studs or other leakage(compression) problems.Sounds like a pulled stud if it's whistling-seen it happen MANY times so don't rule it out just yet... Did you check your lifters when you had the head off?? Were they free in their bores?? Check all valve clearances and lead firing order etc etc in the hope that it is something simple. Is the noise from the side of the head you replaced? What originally happened to the motor for it to stop...it was so long ago I've forgotten!!! If it was tight rings the noise would be fairly consistant..like all the time. Hope it's not your mains..

Have you given it a full tune-up and fresh fuel?

So it's not unheard of to have a pulled stud in a type4 motor?

I'm starting to lean away from it being an intake manifold problem.

I'm sure it's not mixed leads. The car was fine for about 60km after I rebuilt the topends. I was only about 100m from home when it lost power. Luckily the terrain was flat and it chugged home.

The initial problem was a dropped intake valve. It nicely mashed the piston and sent debris into the other three cylinders. It jammed up the motor. Couldn't even turn it with a wrench. It freed up enough on disassembly though.

There was no problem with the lifters as far as i could see. I checked the rockers to make sure there weren't any sheared cam lobes. There weren't by the way.

The valve clearences all seem to be fine.

The noise is from the side I replaced. I took both sides off however. When I did I replaced all the gaskets.
The head wasn't the best but it adequate. There were no signs of cracking or erosion from a previous head gasket leak.

I hope that answered everything.

Chewy wrote:Have you given it a full tune-up and fresh fuel?

Your message appeared after I started posting.
It had a tune up before the failure. I gave it another once over after it went funny too. Well, actually I tried a few times.

The valve clearances are still fine. Haven't rechecked the timing, but it was fine when I put it in the shipping container.

hey, at least you got it to crank. If the noise is every 2 rotations and its coming from the rear left then i would be thinking distributor? Take off the cap have a look around and wiggle the roto to see if there is any play. If you have metal fragments all through the engine then a fragment may have made its way into the oil gallery near the distributor or something like that. If there were fragments in the engine you really should have flushed out everything to make sure that there were no fragments left, but its too late for that so dont bother kicking yaself just see if you can get it running.
Also try taking the alternator belt off aswell. If your having to run it with "start you bastard" (same thing as aerostart?) then there is most likely a fuel issue. I would drain the tank and fuel lines, fill it up a bit with fresh and check out the carbs, make sure everything is in place. Just double check everything on the engine even if your sure its right ( it happened to me several times) and give us a post with the results. Good luck with it!

sounds like a bus i got a few years back, found it sittin under a mango tree for 5 years, it died there on 3 cyc firing.. got it home gave it a wash, put a batt on it n after a few mins.. waroom off she went purring like a sick kitten.. so in turn sold it for more money.. hahaha 😁
good when they do that..
sorry, dont know about your noise but.. 👎

I mean the back, as in furthest away from you when looking at the engine from behind. Closest to the front of the vehicle. Sorry. I was rather unclear, wasn't I?

I think it's once every 2 revs. Like I said, I realised in retrospect. My memory isn't exactly hot.
Didn't get a chance to try it today. Things are pretty full on right now.

There weren't any signs of metal in the engine. Well, not the oily bits anyway. It was limited to the topend. Anywhere that the fuel could go basically. because it was an inlet valve seat, the metal bits blew back and went through the pressure equalisation lines. There were only traces in the other side. A few nasty bits on the same side though. Not enough to damage anything. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if there were an errant particle of metal doing this.

Start ya bastard is pretty much the same thing as aerostart. The mix is slightly different, and a few dollars cheaper.
I have this funny feeling it likes it because it isn't sucking too well, therefore running very, very lean. I tried enriching it. No good. I also pulled down the carbies to check them out and clean them. no problems there as near as I could tell.

You really think I need to drain the tank? There's 40L of fuel in it still. I wish I had a spare mower tank They do wonders as test tanks...

After it stuffed up, and before I noticed the squeak I fitted an electric fuel pump in case it was a pump issue. It's still connected. It'll make flushing the lines easier.
It'll probably be a few days before I can do very much. I'll see if I can at least get it started tomorrow.
I may even flush the carb bowls, time permitting.

Sorry if I haven't answered more recent posts (if there are any). It's taken me a few hours to finish this post. Been on and off the computer.

have you looked at the vac take off and associated hoses around the manoiflds?also dont think that silicone will fix vac leaks as petrol will go straight thru it use stag if you need sealant on fuel assiocated parts

hey,
there isnt really anything at the front left (yes the front..you stand at the back lol) it sounds more like a valve,rocker, pushrod or something like that... I will keep thinkin bout it for ya coz im on scool holz, sounds like its overhaul time to me tho. Drop the engine, take off the heads and see if anything serious has developed, then when ya sorted any probs there remove all the air cleaners etc, connect the tranny with starter motor and try to get it running on the floor (with a bit of wood under it). It will b alot easier to figure where the noises are and have more access.

Sounds like you dont got enough time for that tho so just keep eliminating possible causes. give us a progress post when you get a bit done...

Checked the vac lines over a few times. nothing amiss there. They have hose clamps on them because of a minor problem I had in the past.

The blue silicone does the job kind of. I was mostly doing it for diagnostic purposes this time round. That stuff is pretty tough. And all I wanted was a few seconds of squeak free running. unfortunately I didn't get it. So it isn't the manifold gaskets. I wish it was though. I really do.

I should be able to have another quick crack at it tomorrow... oh today. fingers crossed I get a little further.

I'd love to be able to drop out the engine quickly. It's a royal headache. pulling off half the tinware, the oil filler and dipstick stuff, the towbar and bumper etc. Argh!
Anyway, I'll keep you all posted.

dont have to take off anything (except the carbs and manifold if you dont have ramps or jacks)! Just undo the crossmemeber bolts, main engine/gearbox bearer bolts and then the bolts at the front of the gearbox. And all the other stuff is only heater cables, gearshift, wires etc to engine, fuel line, vac hose, clutch cable and accelerator cable. Its bout a 1/2 day job.... but keep checking stuff until you find the problem then make the decision... good luck

Ohhh... you mean drop the engine out with the transmission. I guess that would make things easier. Is it hard to do balance-wise? I've seen it done with the van on a hoist and the engine/transmission sitting on a trolley.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to check anything yet. It's been busy here. I am seriously hoping I'll be able to tomorrow. If I'm lucky I can get about 15 minutes to do things.

yea its pretty tricky to balance it. I use a couple of bits of rope to help, two around each side of the crossmember and then around the chasis, then one around the front of the gearbox and through the sideways beam thing. The ropes also make it easier to swing back and get the front of the gearbox over the bar thing that the selector is above (duno wat its called)... Hardest part is gettin the transmission carrier bolts out, takes forever and gravity is a bitch when it comes to circulation!

squeak could be dry distributor cam
a little grease on the points block,might do the trick

Removing the transmission carrier bolts. That will be...fun.

Dizzy's wrong neck of the woods. Thanks for reminding me to check the grease on the block though. It's been a while.

General_Failure wrote:Removing the transmission carrier bolts. That will be...fun.
...

I didn't have a problem getting them out. Just put a jack under the case (with a bit of wood between) to support the weight. Getting them back in is a different matter. They don't want to catch on the thread. I think the original bolts have a tapered unthreaded bit on the end to guide them in.

sure do have a tapered nose without thread... the hard part is just the angles and small amount of room you have to work with, especially the drivers side!

I got it running for a while today! By a while I mean a couple of minutes. I let it die because it can't quite idle and I had no use for running it longer.

I can tell you the following from what I learned this time around:

* The squeak is every 2 revs.

* The squeak is less pronounced than it was when the engine first failed.

* After running, it didn't like cranking (no surprise there)

* When cranking after running, this was the pattern: 'rurrrrr------rurrrr-------rur(hiss)rurrr----' and so forth.

* I have never heard the hiss before today.

I ran out of daylight so I couldn't do a compression test, but I thought the hiss was pretty self explanatory.

Please, correct me if I am wrong as the following is just an educated guess;

As the squeak/hiss is every 2 revs it is compression related. Especially because it seems to tie in with the compression stroke.

As the sound is every 2 revs it couldn't be a piston/ring friction sound.

I have never heard blowby past pistons make much noise, especially a squeak, so it is likely to be a topend problem.

This leaves the most likely candidates to be:
*Head gasket/compression leak around barrel.
*Cracked head.
*bad valve seal.

What does everyone think?

OK, so the carrier bolts should have guides. Good. Hopefully I can get these ones undone. I couldn't on the beetle. I've seen them out before though on the van.

I remember Dave dropped the engine w/transmission straight down without inteference. How did he do that? I have a 1600 box by the way.

Anyway, i have to do some things. I'll be back on later. Please tell me what you all think of my ideas.

Thanks everyone!

by squeak do you mean hiss??? they are two totally different noises. The 'rurrrrr------rurrrr-------rur(hiss)rurrr----' is a battery charge problem, not getting enough juice to the starter. The hiss is the gas leaking out of the cylinder, if its really loud then it may be a the result of your intake valve not sealing right, or head gasket or spark plug or something along those lines... Bump up the idle so you can get the engine warmed up, maybe try taking it for a spin around the block and see how it goes. It doesnt sound too bad, howz the oil leak going? Does the engine sound good besides the squeek or hiss? (when you decide lol)

To bump up the idle you should see the idle screw, you can adjust the idle using them or using the mixture screws, i would just get the idle up using the idle stop screws until your ready to adjust the carbs.

When you want to give the carbs a go try http://type2.com/library/fuel/dualsol.htm For a few pointers.

It's both a squeak and a hiss, depending on the circumstance. the hiss is a new sound as of today. The hiss was audible instead of the squeak during cranking after the engine had been running for a while. This is the clearest indicator I have had that it is pressure and not friction based.

Because it is a high pitched squeak of short duration, which only occurred when the engine was being cranked at a decent speed or when running, it was quite hard to determine the nature of the sound.

The hiss was audible from the cabin with the top inspection cover off. Also because the engine would have been lucky to manage 40RPM when I cranked it after it had been running, I guess it created a spinning of the right speed to let me hear the hiss. Turning by hand doesn't induce it, becaue it's too slow.

Can anyone think of a way to narrow it down further before I pull the head off?

The engine sounds passable besides the squeak. Not amazing but OK. Perhaps a shade gutless. It hasn't been running in about a year after all. Next time I start it I'll test the power by seeing if it can move the vehicle easily. Couldn't do it today because it was parked in by the EA.

I need to fiddle the mixture anyway. I discovered that the mixture screw was very loose. Guess I could up the idle temporarily 🙂

I think I'll give it a few runs of the driveway before, and if I take it out. There is pretty much always an ummarked police car just around the corner.

Haven't rechecked the oil leak yet. That reminds me. Where can I get a small chunk of plate steel or aluminium from? Usually I just dig up scrap but I don't have that luxury here.

Finally, what is the deal with the experience meter?

yea good luck with it....

experience meter is like the tooth fairy... it knows how much time you are spending with your vw!!! YOUR BUS IS NEGLECTED!!!!!!!! ahaha got no idea dude, another irrelevant stat to show heirachy

If I can get time tomorrow I'll do some more. I think we have been at hospitals, doctors etc all week. Another appointment tomorrow too. It's amazing how quickly specialists are seeing her.
Next week, three centrelink related, a solicitor and god knows what else.

Hopefully the weekend will give me a bit more time too. Now that the van runs again, it's a lot easier to work with.

When it ran, no smoke or anything. That made me happy. I'll pay a visit to the VW wrecker down the street next week and find out how much they flog old heads for. Just to cover my bases.

Oh yeah, the plate I mentioned that I want, it's to make a blanking plate for the mechanical fuel pump. Might as well pull it off. It's not 100% anyway. I'll just keep it under the seat as a spare.
Will the oil come out if I take off the pump? I'm not sure if it's below the oil level.

That experience meter is weird. It went from 98% to 1% in one post. Is what I said really that stupid?

Thanks for all the help so far everyone. 😁

Yes oil will come out when you take off the fuel pump. If you think the fuel pump is dodgey, get a bottle, take off on of the fuel lines off one carb, stick it in and crank the engine and fuel should squirt out. If its not working, when you go 2 the wreckers get another fuel pump off him or replace the diaphram. I doubt your fuel pump is crook tho.

Are you running an electrical fuel pump? If you are then you should leave the mechanical fuel pump on so it doesnt syphon fuel from your fuel tank into the engine, because of gravity...

Here's the story with the fuel pumps.

After the engine stuffed up, and before there was an audible sign of problems I tried fixing the apparent problem. This involved rechecking the valve clearences, points gap, timing etc. When that did nothing I gave the carbs a good clean out. Still no difference. At the time it seemed like fuel starvation may have been a possibility.
So I pulled the electric fuel pump from the beetle to test whether it was the fuel pump. It wasn't. The electric pump is connected but not mounted properly. The mechanical pump is still mounted but not connected.
The mechanical pump leaks petrol, and a little oil. Its outlet nozzle isn't the most secure either. It leaks a little fuel from there too.
It wouldn't have been the first fuel pump failure anyway. So I was more than a little suspicious.

I have found electric pumps to give better starting. Mostly because they top up the carbs before the engine is running.

Are you saying have the electric and the mechanical connected? that would give way too much pressure.
The electric pump makes sure no fuel gets through when it's off anyway.

yea, you can use a pressure regulator tho. If your electric pump stops fuel flow when switched off then its fine. it would probably be cheaper to pick up a 2nd hand fuel pump tho and also easier because you wont have to mount the new pump and make a blockoff plate for the hole.

its upto you tho, how much confidence you have with vw parts and how much $$$ you got.... I had a look for that warm air duct, dont have one sorry... If it pops up somewhere i will let you know tho

cheers

How do the pressure regulators work. I don't even pretend to understand as i have never seen one. Are they a mechanical thing that has a recirculation setup for the petrol or are they an electric thing that shuts of the fuel pump when pressure reaches a certain threshold?

Thanks for looking for the duct 🙂 Much appreciated.

I usually have quite a bit of confidence in VW parts, bar the occasional item, eg window actuators. I do have lousy luck with fuel pumps though.

Mounting this pump will be odd if I do it. It's an old subaru pump, and it has a really strange mount. I wish I had another mazda 929 pump. They were so easy to fit, and so forgiving. But 929 parts are horribly expensive. I pulled mine from a wreck.

I had a quick look at the oil leak. Still there. I put a container under it after I spotted it. I just checked for more oil. The bottom of the container has a nice coating but there's not as much there as I expected.

If I can get the motor out again(don't like my chances) I'll probably end up pulling the topend off again and checking everything. There are a few things i'm not totally happy with. Especially the rings.

My other half has gone to bed for a rest before todays specialist appointment and I'm on my lonesome with bub right now so I don't have anyone to keep an eye on bub for a couple of minutes. If you think fo something visual I can check i can do that, but anything more is out for today unfortunately. Little missy is a handfull and there is no gate on the backyard 🙁

Just going to take her out back for a stomp. Thanks for everything so far!

not a problem, just trying to return the favour for all those people who helped me when i had no idea. Not sure on the pressure regulators, most likely just a restriction thing just like a tap. You set it to one pressure and it doesnt change... It doesnt sound to me like you engine is that bad, just need to fiddle a bit with the carbs. good luck with it

are you sure some of your air noises arent the mech fuel pump still moving as they will suck in air an blow it out of the other side,just a thought as had it on an old val i had with elect pump and mech pump stil in:blush

pod wrote:are you sure some of your air noises arent the mech fuel pump still moving as they will suck in air an blow it out of the other side,just a thought as had it on an old val i had with elect pump and mech pump stil in:blush

Well, I'm pretty sure the squeak isn't coming from the pump.
And the hiss when I was cranking, well it was accompanied by faster rotation through that compression stroke. When a battery has trouble spinning a starter motor, compression differences seem to become obvious.

Great idea though. It probably does make a noise too. Just been drowned out by louder ones.

Unfortunately it's raining today and my other half is in a lot of pain so I can't do anything 🙁

Thats no good, Have you been out since? weather seems to be getting better in syd...

I just had the opportunity to do some more testing on the van. Bub is at her grandparents for the night and Amy is in bed asleep sick. Possibly a lung infection according to the doc. Those things are nasty 🙁 Hi Ho Penicillin. AWAY!

I did a cold test on the noisy side of the engine. ie 3&4.
No. 3 came back with 60PSI.
No. 4 gave me roughly 30PSI.
I know doing a compression test on a cold engine yeilds a lower pressure, but seriously, what?!?!

I tried reversing and going forward. It was a gutless wonder. I decided to leave it where it was, because I don't like my chances of moving it on my own if it decided to die.

I managed to restart the engine a couple of times. Oddly enough if I gave the accelerator a pump and then left the throttle wide open it'd take 1 maybe 2 revs to start it.

I decided to restart the van to get it into a slightly better location. i was a bit off. Couldn't start it. Mr Battery decreed it was time for some R&R(removal and recharging). So I didn't get to do a warm compression check.

The hiss on cranking is still there, and the squeak is still very audible too.

Fast idle was doing its job when i first started the van. It gave me another chance to go round back and listen. While it's still cold the squeak has a 'shape'. It's a high pitched squeak that tends to slack off to a hiss at the end. This is when it's still cold.

Oh yeah. No 3. sparky was black with soot. No.4 had some tiny tendrils of something bridging the gap. Fixed that.

I was surprised the lower compression was on 3. The sound seems to come from around 4.

Is the compression on 3 low for a cold test? 4 just seems plain wrong to me.

Is it possible to remove the head with the engine still in? I believe it is, but have never tried it. Has anyone else done it?
Either way it'll mean a partial tinware strip. When I get to do that, and before I pull off the heads, I think I'll check the stud tension.
i checked the ones under the rocker arms before the van was shipped. They were still good IIRC. I'll recheck them anyway.
If stud tension is still good on the accessible nuts, is it a fair bet that the top ones are good too?

Sooty spark plugs isnt a worry, you have only been running it for a min or two on startup with choke so i wouldnt be too concerned. If the squeek was going away as the engine warms up (runs longer) and you were running it only for 1 or 2 mins then it is most likely part of the cylinder head.... It may be a bit of crap caught in a pushrod oil passage and not giving the rocker any lunbricant, as you run longer the oil may splash around and get on the effected area?? How does that sound? I would run over the effect rockers and see if anything looks out of place, lots of wear, metal shaving, play on the studs anything like that. Then soak it in wd40 (might be a bad idea if it mixes with the engine oil but some1 else will have to answer that) if not wd40 then some sort of spray oil that wont afffect your engine oil and then start it up and see if its gone. Also because its every 2 cranks then that might make the rockers even more suspect. With the psi, i remember reading somewhere that the psi in each post was apprx 100-110psi, seems like your pretty down. If you end up taking off the heads then it might be a pretty easy fix, rings in wrong pos, valve not seating properly. We had a hole in one of our valve (bit cracked out) and the engine was still ok to drive around but that was a 2l engine with 1600 gearbox but you should still be able to move the car. Give what i sed about the rockers or if anyone suggests a better method and give us some feed back. Good luck!

Sorry, I meant the sound of each individual squeak. It still stays the same volume.

So you reckon give the rockers a clean up? Easy. It only takes a few minutes to pull them aout and give them a good cleanup.

You mean maybe a ring has rotated? I guess that's possible.
A badly seated valve is another possibility.
it worries me that both cylinders were down so much. I haven't checked the other side of the motor for comparison though.

I have an 1800 with a 1600 box, so it wouldn't be too different.
Even running on 3 cyls, or in the vehicles pre-dropped valve seat state (ie. totally rooted topend) it still had heaps of power compared to its current state.

It ran beautifully for the first hour or so after the rebuild. Then in a matter of a couple of seconds it lost its power. I reckon whatever happened was pretty catastrophic to do that so quickly. It really sounds like a whole lot of pressure is getting out. Just wish I could think of a way to figure out where!
I mean, if I knew whether it was escaping from the head, past the rings, or past a valve, it would make everything so easy.

I'm not even going to attempt pulling the sparkies out of the other side until I take the tinware off. There's a funny sparkplug hole helicoil making life a pain.

If I could drop out the engine I think I'd end up doing another rebuild. Only thing is time. Last time it took me a couple of weeks fulltime. There are so many things to pull off!

Did you have any work done to the heads? It sounds like a valve/valve seat problem to me. Maybe the valve springs are too weak. Take out the rockers and give em a clean up... just keep eliminating possibilities! Take out the pushrods at the same time and just check the that oil can still flow through them. They might have got some debris caught in them that will stop the oil flow and make the rocker squeek. I think you should be able to figure out the problem pretty easily by just taking the heads off and checking valves, seats, guides, springs and piston rings. It is hard to tell what it is out of those tho. Give cleaning and lubing the rockers a go and see if the squeek goes away. Did you try taking off the alternator belt and running it like that?

nah. Didn't have any work done on the heads. All i could do was give them a quick cleanup. I only had a timeframe of a couple of weeks to do it all in unfortunately. I think that mistakes may have been made.

Forgot to try taking off the alternator belt. My primary concern was compression testing and power testing. Now that I've done those I can check other things.
Fun and games.

Wats your knowledge on reconditioning heads like? Ours was bad, we got a set fully rebuilt for $550.... its not cheap but we had hardened valve seats put in etc etc. and hopefully if we look after the engine they will last for a while... Anyways, clean up the rockers and tell us how you go

Well, I know what is done to heads to recondition them. I can't do it though.

Because the engine hadn't really done too many kms since it was recon/rebuilt before I bought he kombi, all I did was clean up the good head a bit. Just cleaned off carbon deposits really.
As for the replacement head, that's a slightly different story. I have it a really good de-carbon treatment. In some areas the burnt on crud was a few mm thick. I cleaned up the head seal area and made sure it looked pretty clean so that I wouldn't have a leaky head gasket.
I checked the valves moved properly and that the springs didn't feel weak. The seals between the valves and seats looked pretty good so I didn't touch that.

After I put the motor back in, a problem was made apparent on the replacement head. The inlet manifold studs were pretty bad. A couple of them didn't even survive a mild tightening. Loctite, silicon and care seemed to remedy the situation.
Anyway, I know that's not the problem now. It's horrible compressioin loss from parts unknown.

is the replacement head on the cyl 3 & 4 (low compression) side? Was it second hand? I would be leaning on a component of that head being suspect!

it was well and truly second hand. It didn't look too bad, but I guess looks can be deceiving.

Yesterday's brief start the squeak was horrible. Didn't get to remove the fanbelt. I wanted to make sure it would start first. I don't exactly trust it.

Just had a quick look undernerneath. Looks like there4'd be enough clearence to do the heads,and maybe even pull off the barrels again without pulling the motor out. I hate the thought of pulling the gudgeons again. That was a horrible job.

I know for sure that a friend also had this squeak & it turned out to be the head "gasket" shim, the compression was blowing out there, the reason it makes the noise is the same as if you whistle
I changed the 3/4 head over on my kombi with no trouble
dunno about the 1/2 side though

You changed the head with the motor in?

1-2 wouldn't be too much different to 3-4. It's clearence between the heads and the chassis that's the main concern.
I was going to do a rough measurement with a spare barrel today to figure out if it were possible to remove the barrels with the motor in too. I'd like to pull them off again to check on the rings.
I don't think there would be too much of an issue with disturbing the grooves, as the engine would have had maybe 2 hours of operation total.

EDIT - SORRY! i just read one of your earlier posts - if your compression is that low pull both heads!! Dont dick around - pull the motor and have a good look!! Much easier in the end!!!

Point to note: if you back one head off, back the other at the same time - always!!

good luck


nn[ Edited on 14-7-2005 by VWENVY ]

yes,
if you are all set up with plenty of room & jack & hieght & nice flat garage floor it may be easier to pull motor out,
but when I did it I was not happy, as not much room & getting motor back on by myself a bit hard
so this time with other kombi, just did it in back yard at leisure, one night after work & it was off, only real hassle is fiddling with all the tin at the firewall end
if you cant unscrew the screws that hold all that together (from underneath & forward of motor) then you have wasted your time pulling anything else apart 1st

Hey general failure, was reading up on http://www.ratwell.com and

"Head replacement is easy once the engine is out (the hard part). You can replace the heads with the engine in the bus but it ends up being much more work because of the awkwardness of the working area."

Something to think about. Also read about leak down tests. Maybe give that a go if you can. Check out his site... its like all the vw info i have ever read on one site. VERY helpful!

Also on his site i think, pic of the preheat part of the tinware near the fuel pump you were asking about. This is what it looks like...

wow! I didn't expect all these replies!

I can only give a quick reply right now. I'll be more thorough later.

Didn't check compression on the other side of the motor. I'd like to pull it apart to source an oil leak anyway.

kombikim, could you please tell me where you positioned the jack to lower everything out?
I was going to buy a subaru motor from ebay when all this first happened.. It was won by someone ebay id kombikim. coincidence?

Thanks for the site 76camper. i'll look at it tomorrow.
Thanks for the pic too. I was wondering what that bit looked like. Now I know what I need.

I'll post more later. Thanks.

coincidence - ohh dear another one of me! probably a girl
wonder what else I bought

I am not an expert on dropping kombi motor, just put a flat peice of wood under centre of motor a bit towards flywheel end
with tolley jack & a coupla scissor jacks, for safety & fiddled round til I had it balanced - exact spot irrelivant anyway because I have an auto, which has different balance
(rear or car was on stands, as high as they would go

yea, just fiddle round till you get it about right. You can use a rope around the front of the gearbox and connect it to the chassis on each side and use that as a saftey rope and slowly let that rope down while you let the jack down. You can do that with the rear cross memeber aswell. Loop some rope around each side and then around the rear part of the engine bay... its hard to explain but its really useful. As you let the jack down you just let each rope off a bit and if you balance is totally out your not going to f**k your engine from it falling. If you dont understand i will take some pic's. Using the ropes makes it ALOT easier and gives you more confidence. Use the ropes when you put the engine in aswell...

Wow, what a saga!
I have not read this post before, looks like you’re in for some troubles!

Like has been mentioned in posts above, it’s very hard to diagnose without seeing the motor and hearing the problem, so please understand I am only guessing on the cause of problem from your explanations.

Firstly I think you have two problems not one. As you already know you have a very bad leak somewhere in the top end. The squeak, hiss and poor starting are definite symptoms of this. As you get some pressure in a compression test, at least there is not a massive failure like a hole in a piston or a broken valve. Are you sure the compression test was accurate? Pressures that low mean a sizable leak. How you can narrow down where the leak is using a leak down test as 76camper mentioned. If you don’t have equipment to do this, see if you can have someone crank the motor while you listen in the engine bay (or you may be able to hear it just turning the motor by hand?) Make sure you disconnect the coil so it doesn’t fire.
If possible you may also want to remove the carbie and exhaust to hear the hiss better. A leaky valve (make sure valve clearances are right first!!) will put the hissing sound into either the inlet manifold or the exhaust pipe. Leaking past the piston you should be able to hear in the case (remove the steel case breather box next to the fan housing and listen in there. If you still can’t narrow down the hiss it’s more than likely the head gasket.

Next is why the sudden power loss. A leak in the combustion chamber will not stop you driving, in fact a leak in the head gasket in my 2L kombi which was quite noisy resulted in very little power loss and only a slight variation in compression. I drove from Adelaide to Perth like that before discovering what the problem was. Assuming your compression test is accurate, you have suddenly developed a very large leak in two cylinders at least. I would guess there was either a pre existing problem in the head you never noticed or for some reason the head studs are very loose (maybe the ones under the tinware?). One good test to see which cylinders you have a problem with, try to keep the motor running for a few minutes to warm it up, make sure the chokes are off and get it to run as slow as possible and still be steady. Then pull the plug leads one at a time and not the difference in engine speed, probably for Cyl. No 3, 4 you will not notice a change.

I still think there is more to your woes than that, some old parts kombi’s I have picked up I could drive OK only running on two cylinders, sure its down on power but still enough to drive around with. So my guess is either you are losing pressure on the No 1, 2 side as well or there may be a fuel delivery or spark issue as well.

See if you can run through some of what’s above to get a better idea on where the problem is.
It’s not a rosy outlook, but the type 4 is a robust motor that can handle a fair bit of abuse. If you are confident the rest of the motor is sound, just pulling the heads either with the motor in or out of the bus will probably get you running again. Be wary of second hand heads as they are the weakest part on a type 4 motor. If you can afford it I’d recommend having them checked by some one who can test them for you.

For your information, a new motor should get 140-150psi (with stock compression) and a warn motor ~100psi. Below that and you start to loose too much power.
Also new heads are ~$600ea, so re-built second hand is cheaper, but not always the best.

Good luck!
:blah

Oh, as for removing the motor, if you have the space and flat gound, my preference is two floor jacks, one in the middle on the motor, one at the front of the GB. It balances OK like that and you can lower each end separately. You only need to remove the mount above the bell housing and lean the rear of the motor down enough so you can disconnect it from the GB. Then jack the bus up enough to slide the motor out from under it.
Most importan of all is BE SAFE and make sure everything is properly supported before getting underneath. Kombi's are heavy, you don't want one dropping on you!!

so there are 2 kombikims? weird. It was a subie motor with all the fittings for a kombi too.

OK, so it's most important to be able to unscrew the tinware on the firewall end? Why do you need to take that off first? I don't think it was taken off when the motor/transmission was dropped out to find an unspecified transmission problem (turned out to be a cut clutch cable. yes, cut). I know it only took dave a few minutes to undo everything and raise the van up, leaving the motor sitting there. I wish I had a lift.


So, should I put it up on ramps or keep it on the ground for this procedure?

It's a bit off-topic, but what's the type of piston ring compressor called that I need? I never ended up getting it last time round, and I can't remember what it's called anymore. It's probably still waiting for me in Dalby.
I'd rather use the proper thing this time round than my badly made homebrew one. It was a cheap oil filter wrench with a chunk of plate cut from a stinkpipe cap assembly to make everything wide enough for the rings.
I was afraid there would be something about scissor jacks mentioned. I've been considering getting a couple if I can find them cheap enough. They can be very useful things. I even used one for moving a commodore motor to fix an incorrectly installed engine mount. Bent the jack though. Ah well, it was only a council car's jack.

I used ropes last time round dropping out just the motor. If there was anything I learned it was this. Get thicker rope. I had the unpleasant experience of it snapping when the motor slipped. I had the motor tied up in 4 places too.

I had an auto. It's manual now 🙂 Best thing I ever did. Automatics don't like me.

Ah geez. I have to find some wood. These here city folk don't seem to have any lying around.

Sorry, the last couple of posts happened while I was typing the last reply.

Wish I had a decent way of recording the sound of the van. The best ways I can think of is to use the mobile phone or get a mic->line level converter and use the md recorder.

Firstly, I can assure you the valve clearances aer correct. It was one of the first things I checked. All of the lifters are operational too. I turned the engine by hand to check they all moved.
There are no broken valve springs. As for weak ones, well, none of them felt weak on a simple push test with the back of a screwriver.

The starting issue has me a bit confused. It hates starting cold. Sure the buggered battery doesn't help much. Once it's been started and ran for a minute, it barely even needs to crank before it sputters to life. It is curious how I need to have the throttle wide open to start it though. Maybe it can't suck too hard.

So I have a few things to try for finding the source of the leak. Problem is, I don't have anyone to assist me.

I'm pretty sure the bigend is okay. I have no reason to think otherwise. Everything moves and oil pressure is fine.

I agreee that the amount of power loss is just stupid. My motor was in really poor shape and I drove it interstate while towing.It still had piles more power than this.
It sounds like it's running pretty even apart from the squeaky barrel. That sounds weak. It's just very, very gutless.

The electrics seem okay I think. It has a new GT40 coil in it too. It's got a good spark still.

$600 for heads? Hmm, I'm about $600 short on that. and then x2? ouch.

Unfortunately I have no idea if the compression gauge is correct. It's new so I have nothing to compare it to.

Excellent. Theres some really good ways of removing the motor. Thankyou for that.

Should be interesting getting the motor running without throttle. So adjusting the throttle stop screws is the best way to do it?

Should be interesting getting the motor running without throttle. So adjusting the throttle stop screws is the best way to do it?

Definantly the quickest.... will probably take you a whole 30 sec's lol. Get the motor running and then bump up the idle enough to keep it running... Will make working on the engine alot easier.

I agree with Andy, my bus had pretty much no compression on one pot and it still ran pretty well. The carbs were tuned up to compensate tho.

This might sound really dumb, but I adjust the stops on both carbs, right?

Oh yeah, I've been looking through that site. Something horrible occured to me.

This is it, simplified.
The engine was rebuilt, yielding higher compression.
Queensland in summer is hot.
The fuel at the servo was questionable.
There was a missing heater box/manifold nut (spotted today).

I'm wondering if it has a warped head. I really hope not. I guess it's better than some of the other possibilities.

I just want to get my van running properly. It's in about the same shape as me right now.

i dont think it matters which one.... not sure why there are two stops but yea one of them will do. Could be a warped head, i havent herd of it yet (only been dubbin not even a year yet) but i guess you wont know until the heads come off. Maybe take off the heads and them take em to some1 who knows their sh*t and get an opinion... I think your just denying the inevitable lol... the engine is going to have to come out. Ide give you a hand if i lived round the corner but i guess not lol

Sorry. I guess the flu has me down a bit. Well, that and a lot of other things.

I have decided the best method would be for me to remove the engine and transmission, and not separate them. It took me a day to get them to mate and bolt together last time. I also had a problem with the motor tipping over flywheel first into the ground last time too. Type4 motors are so much heavier than their type1 cousins. And I think I'd prefer extra weight and an extra 'handle'.

It'll probably end up with the spare head on it. I just hope there's enough clearance for the rockers. The valve seats are somewhat recessed.

Thanks for the offer 76camper. If I were in a vastly different location I would have taken you up on it. Probably invited a few others too and had a bbq and some drinks too. It's the best way to work on cars I reckon.
It's a real pain in the bum not knowing anyone within a thousand or so kms.

One more question. I have a trolley jack and (maybe) a scissor jack in the EA. I also have 2 ramps and 2 axle stands (pin and hole type).
I also have a nice complement of sockets, allens, some ring spanners, torque wrench, shifters multigrips etc.

What else would I need to make this job easier, apart from some more rope that is?

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Heads.html Sounds very familiar.

Something I forgot to reply to earlier about head stud tension. I have been wondering about the top studs too.
When I put the motor back together, I tensioned them all correctly, then retensioned them a little later. I then left the motor to sit overnight and did a final round just to be sure. I just wish it were possible to get to the things without extracting the tinware. It'd be great to be able to retension easily after the motor has been reassembled.

One final thing. Last time I cheated and didn't pull off the big alloy ducting assembly. I think I'll do it this time. How hard is it? my manual was no help at all. It just told me to take it off.

ok, now youve decided to drop it your almost half way :-)

1. Reverse van up onto ramps, the angle makes taking the engine out tricky but the extra height makes it easier, also they are safer than jack stands (i think)

2. Once ur up chock the two front wheels and then get too work undo cables, tubes, wires etc.

3. Support the engine with ropes and then put a peice of thick wood and your trolley jack and centre it (you will find it will balance nearer to the frotn of the sump). Jack it up, undo all the bolts and gear shift then pull it back (so nosecone clears that big horizontal pole (whats it called???) and then your done!

Sounds easy doesnt it, hardest part is balancing the engine.

The tools you have is pretty much all i used to take out engine out.... If you are doing the head work yourself you may need to get a few others (dont know wat... just looks tricky).

One final thing. Last time I cheated and didn't pull off the big alloy ducting assembly. I think I'll do it this time. How hard is it? my manual was no help at all. It just told me to take it off.

I dont know wat u mean by big alloy ducting... explain?

Pulling apart the topend of the motor is pretty easy. Reminds me an awful lot of the BMW motorcycle motors too.

You mean so the nosecone clears the rear torsion tubes. I'm a little worried about reaching the top transmission mount bolts.

The alloy ducting - the big thing around the cooling fan that controls/directs the air. There is some tinware under it that inteferes severely with removing the barrels. I did the naughty thing and did a couple of strategic bends to the tinware get necessary clearance. bent it back afterwards of course. It would have been a lot easier pulling the gudgeons if that bit wasn't there.

Yea, i know wat u mean now. Thats called the fan housing. You can take out the engine without touching any of the tinware! as for those little air deflectors inbetween the cylinder and the pushrod tubes. You gotta take out the pushrod tubes then undo the couple of bolts holding the air deflectors in place and they are off!. They are pretty fragile so take your time.... theres no rush, just get it right so you wont have to drop the engine again....

When we first stripped out engine we bent the air deflectors and regretted it because they got a crack from the bend, luckily they dont get much movement once they are in position.... good luck with it, and remember take your time.... get it right this time and there will be many more happy trips to come

Of course! Fan housing. Duh! I can be pretty thick at times.

I didn't mean the tinware under/between the barrels. Although I am acutely aware of those little buggers. Especially becaue I bent them too, just a little to get clearance. Then I discovered there was a stripped thread on the replacement head for the screw that holds that stuff in place. Amazingly I had a self tapper exactly the right size. Really stumpy and a nothingth of a mm thicker.
The tinware I meant is between the fanhousing and the barrels tending towards the top.
Yes, I want to remove the fanhousing this time round. I want to check on the condition of the rings before I put it all back together. Mostly because of the dubious width of the replacements. I want to check that they haven't done damage. They were good rings too, apart from the width. I got them from Mick Motors. They have always helped me out and gotten me quality replacements for things, so I'm definitely not bagging the quality of their stuff.
I was forced to use the rings though because of the time postage took.The fact that I broke one during the discovery that they were marginally too wide didn't help matters either. And I had to move interstate 2 weeks from that date too 🙁 The rings barely fit in some grooves, and not at all in others. I reused the unbroken old rings in that circumstance. Most of them were broken before I took the motor apart.
I'm very surprised that the motor wasn't squirting oil like a fountain. It didn't leak. Or blow smoke. Weird. It was pretty gutless though. 80km/h terminal velocity and needing to stop hourly for a rest for a few minutes.

Tomorrow I'm going to call the wreckers to find out how much scissor jacks go for. I know where I come from they usually just give them to people, but I bet here they probably gouge people. I want 3. I had a great idea.

Sounds like time isnt an issue this time round. Why not get some new seals and give the motor a proper clean up? Dont bother spliting the case but definantly replace pushrod tube seals, and oil cooler seals etc. It wont take you long and a complete seal kit isnt too dear. Wish i could help you out, wouldnt mind working on another motor, was alot of fun rebuilding ours!

I've been debating whether to replace the pushrod tube seals. I did them just before I moved to QLD. I agree with the oil cooler seals. Guess I'll have to get more head gaskets etc. *grumble*.
I wasn't going to split the case. I think the engine had a full rebuild a little while before I bought it.
I have 2 months before I have to move from here. Last time all the work took so long for a few reasons. I couldn't get parts. QLD summer sun is hot. I probably did things in the worst possible way. And I had never done work on a type4 before.

Now I have pretty much a whole topend worth of spares, a couple of VW parts places nearby, and a concrete slab to work on.

I went to the VW mechanic/wreckers down the street. They have an impressive array of heads for sure. They had one 1800 head. Cracked. That didn't make my day.

I've only found one wrecker locally in the phone book. It's like people here are afraid of being found or something. I know there's a lot more. I've seen them! It's just a lot easier to call than visit. All I want to do is pick up 3 cheap jacks.

What I want to do is make a triangle frame. Put a jack on each corner. The triangle will be made so 2 corners are under the rear engine mount and the third corner under the transmission somewhere. The jacks under the engine will have something like half a bit of tube steel or something on the top for the mount bar to sit in. As for the transmission end, the best I could come up with is some sort of wide cradle so it doesn't slip sideways.
I figure the whole thing would be less than an hours welding. It'd also allow the engine/transmission to be tilted for easier removal.
As for height constraints. I dunno. Drop the engine out, then jack up the van and pull it out? Or put stuff under the frame for the removal.

Sounds good, but using trolley jacks would be easier... remember you have to be able to pull the engine to the rear for the shift rod to clear...

Trolley jacks are a bit more than $10 a piece though. I know the cheap ones it almost works out the same as the jacks. ah well. I'm mostly pursuing my version because of stability. I'm terrified of the weight and fragility of the motor. Last time it went off balance on the jackwhen I nearly had it on the ground and it got stuck on a bad angle flywheel down and I couldn't move it. I also got the thing jammed in the bay and had to do a lot of persuading to make it move. Then it nearly fell again. Maybe I've just been unlucky. I don't know.

About moving it back. I have to tilt the motor down so the tinware and oil filler/dipstick clears the bay to be able to move it all back to dislodge the transmission, right? I just want to make 125% sure I'm correct on this. This time I want to go in with all the information 🙂

It's a hell of a lot easier to remove the dipstick/oil filler tube.It gives you a lot more room to work in.Can you borrow a large trolley jack from a servo on the weekend or sumfink?? Can some one LOCAL ON THE FORUM GIVE YOU A HAND????? A large trolley jack and a good block of wood makes the job easier. If the wood passes underneath the engine enough you can use a brick on each sde of the motor to lower it down onto and still have enough gap underneath to pull the jack out. When the jack is out you jack the car as high as possible and throw(maybe place) more blocks under the wheels to keep it higher than the motor.Put jack back under the motor and lift it just enough to pull the whole lot out from under the car.You cant do that with scissor jacks unless you have a strong skateboard. If you take the gearbox out with the motor you might have some weight issues/require some help.Best to keep it simple. Good luck!!

borrowing a trolley jack is unfortunately out of the question. They aren't exactly the most friendly people around here. Downright hostile in all honesty. There are the occasional exceptions of course.

Hmm..There are Melbourne forum members, aren't there?

If I had one of those big trolley jacks with the plate sized top on it I'd be laughing. Those things are great.

Last time removing and reinserting the motor it got jammed in the engine bay. with the peripheral tinware, and the oil assemblies removed there seems to be a little less space than I need. I must have done something wrong. The fan shroud got very wedged.

Anyway, I have to get ready for a garage sale tomorrow at my partners parents place. I have some stuff to shift over there. Including my beloved arcade machines 🙁

Does anyone have any suggestions where I can get blocks of wood from? I know it's a stupid thing to ask. I just don't see them around here. The building sites have large barbed wire topped fences around them so that's not possible. Most of the houses are brick anyway.

try a timber supply place? The tip? Just keep an eye out!

I'm afraid this won't be going much further until next week. I have to travel to a funeral this week 🙁

The garage sale went well. My in-laws sold heaps. We sold some stuff. Lots was stolen though. even the U-Bolts off the caravan, and my daughter's desk. People here will steal anything.
Speaking of which, someone was having a snoop in my kombi a few nights ago 😬 The same night there was a nice white beetle parked across the road a little earlier that night too. Probably a coincidence.
I'll be getting the jacks next monday, so it'll be resuming in a week.

I have to unload a trailerload of stuff that didn't sell, and run errands in town too today. Argh! I don't want to put those arcade machines back in the house again.

One more question. I have a trolley jack and (maybe) a scissor jack in the EA. I also have 2 ramps and 2 axle stands (pin and hole type).
I also have a nice complement of sockets, allens, some ring spanners, torque wrench, shifters multigrips etc.

That pretty much describes what I had (except the ramps). I have some blocks of wood (bits of red gum fence post) which were handy but not essential. I also got a cheap skateboard and cut the raised ends off to make it flat

This is what I did:

- put the trolley jack under the engine and the scissor jack under the gb. Skate board in between jacks
- undid everything!
- took the carb (single prog) off to lower the engine profile
- lowered the trolley jack a smidge
- pushed the kombi forward to clear the gb selector shaft
- lowered both jacks until the engine/gb was on my skateboard
- used the jacks to lift the kombi and hauled the engine/gb out! Too easy!

The blocks of wood were used to stabilise the engine/gb when it was out from under the kombi. You could probably use bricks, etc iff you were careful as they aren't as forgiving as wood.

Where are you in Melbourne? I'm in Box Hill. If you are nearby I could help out/loan you stuff. My time would be limited under pain of death though!:P

PS. I'm out of town until Wednesday...nn[ Edited on 25-7-2005 by mnsKmobi ]

I'm in thomastown.

I like your method too. I used a short skateboard last time round. I left the %&*%* thing in QLD by mistake. It had a secondary use as a guide pulley to take up the slack in a V-Belt for the pump for the water tank. I forgot to grab it before we left.
Ah well, the skateboard was too short anyway and the motor fell off it 🙁

I've been keeping my eyes out for some wood or something. Haven't seen a thing yet.

You wouldn't have had much clearance when you moved the kombi forward, would you? maybe 10cm before the fan shroud hit the bay. Or less if the oil filler was still on. I guess there's only a few cm overlap with the transmission and the torsion tube though.

There's about a million different ways to pull one of these motors out. I think I must have chosen one of the worst last time.

I got the trailer unloaded just as the daughter woke up. still have to shift everything inside or into the VW shed-on-wheels.

I can't wait to have my van running again! Sure I still have to get it registered, but mechanically and structurally it's good. It just looks rough-as-guts.

General_Failure wrote:I'm in thomastown.

Probably a bit too far for maintaining harmony in the home. I thought there was someone up your way though...

You wouldn't have had much clearance when you moved the kombi forward, would you? maybe 10cm before the fan shroud hit the bay. Or less if the oil filler was still on. I guess there's only a few cm overlap with the transmission and the torsion tube though.

There wasn't a lot of clearance, but enough. I don't remember taking the oil filler off but I may have.

Hopefully my house/car keys will arrive in the mail on tuesday so then I can go and collect the last bits that I need to start work. I think I may do a little welding work I've been meaning to do beforehand though.
At least I didn't lose the kombi keys.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll pull the oil filler off anyway. Not as if it's difficult to do.

I know what you mean about keeping harmony. Trust me. Thanks for the offer though.nn[ Edited on 31-7-2005 by General_Failure ]
I went to move the van yesterday. The battery is 100% stuffed now. Not even enough current to turn the radio on. Grrr.nn[ Edited on 1-8-2005 by General_Failure ]