2332 Turbo progress update

Hey all, I'm having de-ja-vu... having posted this already before the forum got rebuilt.. but anyway...

Here it is again, my new 2332 turbo engine.... These pics show the progress of the construction of the new header.

I am only learning to tig weld, and fortunatly I'm only tacking it and i'm having a professional weld it all up properly.

Well here's the pics....

Cya,nn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by iswinkels ]nn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by iswinkels ]

Another picnn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by iswinkels ]

Another picnn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by iswinkels ]

Sweet DUDE! :thumb

Ohhhh yeah...!:thumb

Another picnn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by iswinkels ]

Another picnn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by iswinkels ]

Last one... for till I buy some more stainless!

What have you decided to do with the tranny Mr Iswinkles?

I'm going to be using a MD4E Mendeola in swing axel configuration.

Hi Ian,
I deceided to go the same path, GT2871RS w/ .86 exhaust housing. The smaller housing apparently has over boosting problems.
Should look like this!
T54nn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by Turbo54 ]

nice work - where did you come up with the design ?

The header design is similar to one being worked on by someone on another website that Ian and myself are on a fare bit. I am doing the same setup with mine. Its great beacuse it hides all the junk pipe behind the engine leaving a good amount of room to use a decent sized turbo and exhaust. The original design by Purple69 looks like a bit of a bitch to get off the motor once on so I and Ian will be putting a few more flanges in for easier fitment. Ian, I would of made the shortest pipe (No.3?) go under the other pipes and a bit of a bigger radius on the bends so its not so sharp. (heat on the bend and back into head). Just a thought, Turbo54

Turbo54, the bend does look sharp, but its not realy. There is about a 1/4 inch of straight pipe inside the flange on the number 3 cylinder and its a full 90 degree bend from there. Its just the angle from which the photo was taken that makes it appear to be sharper.

The only big diference I made compared to purple67's header design was the system uses a merged collector instead of a 4 into 1. This makes my collector shorter and smaller so its not as close to the cylinders. The header is all stainless as well.

About the GT2871 overboosting when its got the '64 housing, that becuase the turbo still has the GT25 size wastegate hole size, so it can't vent enough exhaust gas to keep boost constant. Particularly a problem when boosts get up high on 2lt engines, or on engine larger than 2lt when exhaust flow is increased a lot. There are two options to solve this. The easiest is to port the gate a little with a die grinder but that will only work so far... The best option is to run an external wastegate, and if you can afford it, invest in an electronic boost controller like a eBoost or an AVCR Apexi.

Another few pics of the header.... nearly finished. Just need one more bend (which I forgot to buy today). I might get lucky tomorrow and the place I get my stainless from at wholesale price might be open still.

Anyways... the pics...

Last one for today...


nn[ Edited on 8-7-2005 by iswinkels ]

Ian, can you please post a picture from the other side.
I want to see how the merged 4-1 looks. Also what diameter is the pipe to the turbo going to be?
T54

Man, I have to say I'm impressed. I'm not sure what blows my mind the most. The cash, the components or the detail going into this. Can't wait to see it altogether, especially with the mendeola tranny. BTW, how much mods are needed to fit the mendeola into your chassis? Is it a 4 or 5 speed?

Where did you get the SS bends and flanges from?
Who is a supplyer of weld on flanges, or did you get it from a mufler shop?
Thanx Hermann

Well its back to the drawing board with part of the header design. I took the header to a mate to have the tig welds done properly and he told me the way i'd put it together made it impossible to finish the welds off. I have since attacked the header with a drop saw and have begun making it slightly diferently.

The merged collector is now being replaced with a normal 4 into 1 section, simply because it can be welded on more easily. I know its a cop-out but after talking with my tig welding mate, he says I should have started at the merge and worked backwards from there, as well as made the collector come together in sections... hard to explain, but I know its beyond my capabilities...

The up pipe to the turbine T25 flange will be 2", and blended into the rectangle input pipe.

As for the flanges, the head flanges cut locally here at a machine shop that does water jet cutting from autocad drawings, so they are very accurate. The 2.5" flanges are laser cut and I got them from Ebay in australia (they were cheaper than the water jet cut ones). Last of all I got the T25 flanges from ebay in the us.

I'll post some more pictures after I've got the new collector sorted out.

As for the mendola transaxel, I can get it built to the same specs as my current gearbox. Axel tubes and axels etc will be the same length so my porsche brakes will bolt right on. The M4D trans will more or less bolt straight in as well when built as a swing axel box. I believe its a lot harder when you start converting to 930 cv's etc, as your then into custom length axel territory... talk to Reub (VWrx) about how much fun they are to work with!

How much power are you expecting to get out of it?

What compression ratio are you running?

I'm hoping for about 280-300hp at the wheels, so i think thats around 350 crank HP.

The specs of the engine are:
rimco modified vw crankcase, modified with turbo oil return in the left side of the factory sump secton
84mm CB 4340 billet crank, nitrided, etc
Scat 4340 12lb flywheel, 8mm dowels, wedgemated
Scat 5.325" rods with 3/8" arp bolts (43ft-lb torque)
Clevite 77 bearings
Mahle pistons weight matched with total seal 2nd ring and chromoly top rings
Engal TCS-10 cam, Magnum 8640 straight cut steel gears
Scat light weight lifters
CB competition eliminator heads with 44x38 valves, ported and polished, 52cc combustion chambers, titanium retainers, etc.
Bugpack 32mm pump, avid remote oil pressure reguator with return to extended sump.
Electric oil pump with remote oil cooler (controlled by the engine management)
Empi wide profile sump, modified with 4 fittings for senders and oil returns etc.
Scat pro comp 1.25:1 rocker gear (from my current engine), and aircooled.net alloy pushrods

660cc injectors (good for 100kw per cylinder).
Same intercooler/induction system as on my current engine, new stainless header.

The engine is setup with 7.8:1 compression, and I intend to run a max of 15lb boost once its run in. In street tune it will be a conservative 6lb which should still make 200hp.

The two modes on the boost controller will be labeled race WRX, and race GTR. 😁 Actually i'll probably get an apexi boost controller so i can preset boost levels in each gear, and also ramp the boost on slowly, otherwise it will just have too much traction problems.

Thanks for responding to our questions, Ian, there's some good info there.

Well the header is finished, and came up pretty good too. I've polished 1/2 of the down pipe and the wastegate.

The rest of the header is being wrapped in 3mm x 2" header wrap.

I wimped out with the construction of the 4 into 1 merged collector, and instead had all 4 pipes go to a flat 90x90mm stainless plate. I then got a 4" to 2" reducer and flattened the 4" end out to be square, and tigged that onto the 90x90 plate. It turned out way better than I had imagined.

Also, after removing the 1641cc turbo engine i've measured up and it is possible to fit a pair of small r33 GTR turbo's under the rear apron of a VW AND hide them. That would make the exhaust extremely easy to setup. If I ever end up considering a turbo upgrade beyond the GT28-71, it will be to a pair of GTR V-spec turbo's. They high-flow those suckers and make 400KW out of them!

The 2332 turbo engine is now installed in the car at last!

It would have been running this weekend but my supplier of earls fittings didn't get the order through in time, so the oiling system is incomplete. It should be nice though cause its all -10 AN stainless braided hose and anodised fittings.

So far the cooling shroud is mounted and modifed to clear the competition eliminator heads, and everything is pretty much finished. All that remains now is cleaning and assembly of the induction side of things.

I'll post more pics tomorrow.nn[ Edited on 5-8-2005 by iswinkels ]

Well i've finally fitted up the turbo header today after thermo wrapping the entire header.

The garrett GT28-320 turbo internal wastegate is now properly blocked off with a bolt down link to bolts on the t25 flange. It works very well and doesn't interfere with any of the other turbo fittings or adjustments which is a nice change from how I had it setup last time.

Tomorrow the cooling shroud goes on, as does the manifolds, and throttle bodies, distributor, ignition leads etc. At which point the engine could be fired up if I had oil lines that is.... I'll just have to spend the next two days polishing my intake pipes and intercooler...

Can't wait to head the beast running. I've already got a race tee'd up with a 450rwhp GTS-T skyline. Will be great fun having one of the fastest cars in Cairns!

Well enough crap, here's some more pictures...

Another pic

Last pic for today...

Looking good DUDE. Can't wait to hear how it goes.... :thumb

Out of interest, how are you doing the whole rego thing? Is it considered a 1600 coz of the block? or is it all fine to be 2332cc and turbo with QLD rego rules?

What are you doing with ya old tranny?

I've got mod plates to cover all the mods to the car. Technically its a 1600 still, and what department of transport don't know won't hurt them. I will be telling them its a 2lt though with the new engine number.

I'm using my hellbug tranny to run the engine in, and will be later replacing the tranny with a built unit i'll be importing. I'm also installing a 5 link kaffar brace to eliminate wheel hop and keep the rear end rigid. 9/10 tranny breakages are caused by wheel hop from what I understand. As my engine won't start to realy make power till about 3500 rpm, i'm hoping this delayed transission to power will help reduce driveline stress as well.

Last of all, my digital camera crapped itself today! So i'll have to borrow wibbles till I can get a new one... I'll have more pics tomorrow.

Cheers,

Hi Ian,
Motor & turbo setup is looking good, yeah it should be one of the quickest things around. Where are you importing your built tranny from? I'm thinking of doing this for my car, but not sure how much it will set me back, all the ads in the mags are based on the builder taking back a "core", also I was wondering about freight costs, would be a bit for something this heavy wouldn't it??
Can you give me a rough guide of cost, ie 3 times the US price etc???
Thanks Greg

sorry.. no idea of pricing... i'm going to buy through a friend that imports from rancho. I should be able to get it about 50% cheaper, but i'm still expecting a 1500 $AUD price tag, which is cheap considering... The same box for me to direct improt would most likely cost me an easy 3500...

Its a little way off till I get that ordered though... Got to pay off the credit card... 🙂

Man, cheap tranny!
What happened to the Mendeola idea?

I investigated whats involved in fitting the bloddy thing! Major rear end re-work... I figure i'll see how things go with a built tranny and so long as I have a spare I'll take it easy...

Muffler mike runs a type 1 box and runs the 10.90 index class at 120-130mph, and mostly just cracks ring gears each season. considering I won't be using slicks, so long as its all braced properly it should survive.

iswinkels wrote:Its a little way off till I get that ordered though... Got to pay off the credit card... 🙂

I know that feeling all too well...

Seems a good price though for what it is, Rancho are one of the better trans shops out there from what i read, you're on a winner there for sure

Hi Ian, will the GT2871RS fit under the apron and tin? Does the oil drain naturally or need a pump? Any problems that you encountered when building you manifold to look out for would be greatly appreciated. I will be doing mine shortly and thought it would be great if i could get it in 1st pop.
Thanks
T54

I mounted the turbo off the universal case left rear mount, so I didn't need to support the long pipe back to the collector. There was an unexpected side benefit from this too. I no longer need to unbolt the entire header to remove the turbo. I only need to unbolt the mount, flange and exhaust bolts and the turbo can be lifted out from the top.

The GT2871 is the same physical size as my GT28-320, so it will fit just fine. I've modified my main case as well, and have fitted an oil return to the side of the sump part underneith the number 4 exhaust pushrod tube. I copied this idea from Sharkey (James Lidstone) off the shoptalk forum.

I really recommend doing away with the merged collector. They are just too dam hard to make. Have the 4 pipes come together to a 10mm thick 90x90 mm plate, and have the pipes welded on what will become the inside of the collector. Then buy a 4" to 2" transition from an exhaust shop, and bash the 4" end of it square. Flatten it off and weld that to your 90mm plate and then you've got the collector sorted out.

The only other thing to watch is that you don't do too much of an angle on the number 1 cylinder. It measured up fine, but I had to cut about 10mm off the side of my rear transmission mount to clearance the exhaust after the header wrap went on. (I'm not using a stock rear mount, its a 4mm plate with rubber lined strap) The pic is of the purple67's exhaust, but it was the only pick I could find easily...

Also, if you look at the pic of the header on the floor on the first page of this post you will notice that I've welded the 1 and 2 pipes together with a brace. This greatly helped the rigidity of the header.

I forgot to post a response to your comment about the 0.64 gt2871 over boost issue too. Its because the internal wastegate is too small. The solution is to run an external wastegate with the 0.64 turbine which would give you the low end boost response, plus the advantage of better boost control.

The turbosmart 35mm one will do the job nicely!

Incidently, my GT28-320 would over boost as well when on full boost in 4th gear. Thats because when the engine and turbine are in their peak efficency range (4500 engine RPM) and the engine is at full load, the exhaust gas flow is at its greatest. Having a gated boost control valve doesn't help this either...

Cheers,

nn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by iswinkels ]nn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by iswinkels ]

All that beatiful stainless work - covered up with thermal
wrap.
That is excellent, cant wait to hear how it goes.

Yeah well I could have polished it, but its a street car not a show car and i'm more concerned about my paint being heat damaged than I am about pretty exhausts.

That being said, the polished down pipe looks like a mirror and wait till you see the 5" carbon fiber muffler with 4" tip thats going under the car! The new header allows huge mufflers to fit under the rear apron now...

Last night I installed the cut to length pushrods, rocker covers (which required some body clearancing due to the wider stroker engine), and finished off the turbo oil return.

With any luck my oil lines will arrive today... So much for overnight delivery...

iswinkels wrote:With any luck my oil lines will arrive today... So much for overnight delivery...

Yeah, I know how you feel, I'm still waiting for my 4-6 week delivery from the states, 14 or so weeks later. The vendor is trying to track it down for me

are they speed flow lines your waiting for

Yeah it was speedflow fittings... but I ended up buying some secondhand speedflow stuff and some pirtec hydraulic stuff so I could get it going...

So after spending all weekend working on the car i've finally got it running. I didn't record the cam break-in on video as it would have been embarising due to how many times I had to get under the car to fix oil leaks. Not the smoothest of engine break-in's ive ever done...

Here is a pic of the oil system plumbing. The larger filter is only installed for break-in, and a smaller z89 is now installed. The black rectangle thing is an adjustable avaid external oil pressure regulator.



Durung the cam breakin I thought I had leaky rocker cover gaskets, but it was actually the jaycee pushrod leaking where the seal hadn't correctly sealed to the cylinder head. Because of the aluminium washer that supports the seal is so close to the head, oil appeared to be leaking from the rocker cover... After removing and re-installing all four pushrod tubes on number 3 and 4 cylinders all oil leaks were sorted. This was dam hard to do as well as the turbo header is a very tight fit in that area, plus the engine was hot too.

So I did the cam break in and all went well. Changed the oil, filter etc and adjusted the valves again, fitted a muffler and then made this video... I should have made the video without the muffler, it sounded a lot more impressive. Like a harley davidson race bike.. 😀

http://www.cairns.net.au/~nqeaho/2332/2332lowres.wmv
http://www.cairns.net.au/~nqeaho/2332/2332hq.wmv

The video is of the car running while I play with the efi maps a little. Upgrading from a 1641cc with 380cc injectors and 50lb rail pressure to a 2332 with 660cc injectors and 40lb rail pressure, I was supprised that the map didn't appear to need that many changes. We'll see when I get it up on the boost. 😀

It gets revs very quickly. I still haevn't driven it yet but want to have it finished by thursday. All that remains is tidying of a little wiring and installation of the intercooler and intake plumbing. Then i'll need to learn to drive again.

you know that they are based here in australia, the bloke who designs and owns the company actually live just across the road from my old man and his factory is in taree. i know all this cause i use his lines on my 2L t4. ill make sure to watch the movies when i get home as im at work and they dont like it if we start streaming movies

thats one mean motor mate i could hear the power.

Yeah it was speedflow fittings I was waiting for, but the problem was the local guy I was buying through had vanished. There wasn't any supplier issue. I ended up ordering from VPW mail order online, and it all arrived today. So i'll be re-making my oil lines next weekend when the 2.5" exhaust also gets upgraded to a 3" system.

For the moment i've modified the old 2.5" system so its drivable and legal.

As for the sound, you should have heard it straight out of the dump pipe. DAM! I'll do another video of that when I fit the new 3" system.

Well its all going well so far. I've barely touched on the street tuning yet. The low end torque is amazing. I've got the wastegate wound all the way out to 5lb. The turbo starts spooling around 2000 rpm, big torque kicks in fully at 5lb around the 2400 rpm mark and then it just pins you in the seat. Quite an experience considering how laggy my previous engine was, this one drives like its supercharged instead. I'll most likely be having to change the turbo at some stage to either the GT28RS-350 or a GT2871 with the 86 turbine and the 0.6 compressor.

I've got to finish running it in, but after then it will be very interesting to see what it does when I rev it above 4000 and am running 15lb boost. Thats still 1000K's away though and i'm not in any hurry. I still need to buy my pauter 1.3:1 rockers, aircooled.net pushrods and make a 3" exhaust.

Here's some high res pics of the engine bay.

http://www.cairns.net.au/~nqeaho/linkdpics/IMG_0928.jpg
http://www.cairns.net.au/~nqeaho/linkdpics/IMG_0929.jpg
http://www.cairns.net.au/~nqeaho/linkdpics/IMG_0930.jpg
http://www.cairns.net.au/~nqeaho/linkdpics/IMG_0931.jpg
http://www.cairns.net.au/~nqeaho/linkdpics/IMG_0932.jpg

I still need to finish the heat shield above the turbo and tidy up all the hoses but for the moment it all works and is allowing me to drive it. The oil feed fitting on the turbo from the previous engine sits too high now so I need to replace the oil feed line with something thats a diferent shape like a 100 degree earls fitting or something. That will sort out the heat shield.

So much to do... but I need a break from it now that its running. Last week I worked all night two nights in a row and was up late every other night so getting some catchup sleep is my current project.

Ah finally he is a man of lesure! don't think that will last long🤪

Got that right! I'm disassembling your stroker engine today in preporation for the 4 cam head conversion plates that I am collecting on monday or tuesday. I'll be sure to post pics.

Cheers,

Ian, after driving your car, do you think my GT2871 is going to be laggy on my 2165?
Do you think the TCS-20 will be ok with 1:25 rockers? Any heat side effects on the header setup? Also can you do me a favour, could you please take a photo of the sump on your car and let me know what it is. I was thinking of going for a CB slim line sump and am a little worried that the single 2.5 inch pipe back to the turbo will be too close as the sump sticks out about 50mm wider than the sump on the case on both sides.
Thanks again for the advice.
T54

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=201

I'd say with the 0.64 turbine will be very responsive. Mine is virtually too responsive, and i'm seriously considering the 0.86 housing on my gt2871 upgrade.

No heat issues at all with the engine at all. Porsche cooling on competition eliminator heads provide a perfectly streetable engine with no cooling issues at all. I'm using a power pully size pully, not a 5.5" one on the crank though, so its spinning the fan about the same speed it would be if it were on a 911. At its hottest it runs around the 95 degree C mark oil temp. The head oil temp sensor reports up to 105 degrees C. I use the head temp sensor for the ECU to provide fuel enrichment at startup.

I can't provide any info about how decent the power band is yet, as I've not yet taken it over about 4200 RPM, but it pulls hard core all the way from 2300 to there. The main advantage of this engine is that I'm actually going to be able to use 4th gear when I race it. The torque and HP occurs at a low enough RPM that when I shift to 4th its still ready to accelerate hard. Unlike the 1641 that would require me to rev it to 6500 in 3rd before I changed gears.

I'm using one of those new EMPI wide glide sumps. It holds nearly 5lt of oil by itself. If i were to full the engine to the full mark it would have to have nearly 7lt of total capacity, but because my oil return is to the side of the crankcase I only fill it to the bottom of the dipstick. I highly recommend installing a 3/4" oil return to the side of your engine with a bulkhead fitting from pirtec or enzed.. The main issue I had with the CB header was the oil return, which is absolutly perfect with this new header and oil return arrangement.

I'm using a 2" pipe fromt he collector to the turbo, as that size pipe merges exactly when bent into a rectangle and welded onto a T25/T28 flange.

I'm getting under the car again this weekend, so i'll take a heap of pics to show all the relivent things and post them on my website again. Its about time I updated that thing!

Cheers,
nn[ Edited on 25-8-2005 by iswinkels ]

Looking at your engine bay photos Ian, god it must have been a head f$%k trying to sort out the PWR water / air intercooler ? Looks like its very tight in there.

Would be a crack up to rock up to your local vw dealer and ask them to service it......

What sort of 1/4 mile times are you expecting once run in and dynoed ?

Whoo Hoo! :thumb

I was lucky enough to see and go for a drive in Ian's sweet beetle last night. What a rush.....at it's only revving to 4000rpm and running 5lb boost at the moment!

Talk about a car that is being developed to perfection.
..and the torque the engine develops, 4th gear at 60km/h and it still pulls.

It's a real credit to you Ian.

Thanks for your time to catch up while I was there.

Yeah it took about 5 hours to sort out the intake plumbing and get it all back in there. The main issues was caused by the competition eliminator heads and manifolds not having offset positioning, unlike the 044 CB manifolds that put the two throttle bodies inline with each other.

That simple change throws out the positioning of all my intake plumbing, and means the throttle linkages had to be totally re-worked. What a pain in the ass that was. But its mostly sorted now. I still need to finish off some heat shielding above the turbo, and replace some of the cloth braided pirtec fittings with stainless hose and speed flow stuff.

As for 1/4 mile times, it should do low 12's with street tyres, and 10's with slicks. I've been investigating the folts swing axel gearbox conversion for teh 6 rib kombi box again, and have tried to contact Rod Penrose to see if he wants to sell his spare box from his old bug drag car... but no contact back from him yet.

My next step is putting in a 5 link kaffar brace system... Doing the measure up this weekend, and fortunatly I can buy all the turn buckles out of polished stainless steel at a greatly reduced price thanks to where I work. 😀

Capsoval over in the US with a simular engine to mine, (longer rods and T3/T4 turbo), tells me his car make excelent power, and it had enough to rip all the teeth of 2nd gear around the 4500 RPM mark... so its going to be a LOT of fun at 15lb boost.

Can't wait to race a few skylines or STI's... Show them what a real fast car can do.. 😀 Still got to put another 800k's on the engine, add the second valve springs and install some pauter 1.3:1 rockers and new pushrods first...

Cheers,

This things gona be nuts :thumb:thumb:bounce:bounce

Ian that is the stuff of dreams. I'm looking forward to a future Gene Berg Trophy shootout and what the results could be.

Whatcha waitn for?
Hows it coming together?
T54

Reub's I missed your visit? bugger Maybe next time dude!

wibble wrote:Reub's I missed your visit? bugger Maybe next time dude!

Yeah, it was litterally a flying visit. Flew out from Darwin at 2am Thursday morning for a meeting in Sydney then flew back to Darwin via Cairns getting back here at 830pm Thursday night. Was only there for an hour, just enough to have a drool over Ian's bug, go for a spin and have a quick chat.

Any progress Ian?
Any underneath photos?
Thanks
Heath,
T54

squizy wrote:Ian that is the stuff of dreams. I'm looking forward to a future Gene Berg Trophy shootout and what the results could be.

Its great to watch the build up Ian and you are doing a great job mate , but dont get your hopes up on the Gene Berg trophy . I built my oval to contest the Gene Berg trophy only this year and made sure that the oval complied with all stated rules , only to be denied the trophy ( even though I had the fastest street registed VW ) because Jeff Unwin and Dave Birchall got together and decided to change the rules so that my oval wouldn't comply . They claimed that the oval doesn't comply due to the engine size being 2842ml and the rego papers showing 1795ml ( AP engine case from an 1800 kombi ) RTA had confirmed with me that the engine size for rego is determined by the engine number , but that is not good enough for the organisers of the event . I tried to discuss this with Dave Birchall on the phone , but he just hung-up on me . ( easy to tell he doesn't know what he is talking about , just being led by others ) Nothing is mentioned in the written rules regarding engine size , the only requirements are the chassis and engine numbers must match the rego papers ( and mine do !! ) I have spoken to Richard Holzl , Paul Muller and others that have won the Gene Berg trophy in the past with 2 litre engines registed as 1600 's and that was OK for them . BEWARE OF CONSTANT UNWRITTEN RULE CHANGES !! I got bitten , and I sincerely hope that you dont have the same problems .

:jesus

So who won it and in what?????????

nbturbo wrote:So who won it and in what?????????

nobody seems to know , I have asked around and it appears to be a secret . Maybe too embarrassing for the organisers ?

This is why I didn't rush to get my car ready for the nationals, last year it was B.S about engineers reports wasn't it.

Maybe there won't be a Berg trophy anymore because every year theres a problem.

Bit of a shame really

I have personally spoken to Dee Berg ( Genes' wife ) and she doesn't want to see the trophy marred or stopped , she totally disagrees with what has happened at this years event and agrees that the trophy is currently in the wrong hands and should be managed by someone independent and someone with brains enough to determine the outcome fairly .

Well its nothing like being bitten in the arse!!! been there and had that from particular vw people because i built something different!!!!:pukeJVLRacing

I really dont think its fair to have a type 4 with almost 2.9 litres of displacement and a turbo compete against largely slower cars . I know you probably built the car in accordance with the rules BUT rules will change all the time . I'm building a Golf to run in Pro sport FWD and the rules are constantly changing . Before commiting to a project its always best to speak to the rule makers to see if your car complies . Oh and I'd like to see the rules state ALL VAG cars competing for the Gene Berg trophy !

Bug_racer wrote:rules are constantly changing . Before commiting to a project its always best to speak to the rule makers to see if your car complies

for your info , I did get a copy of the rules in black & white prior to the event , and rules do not change during or after the event or after the rules have been distributed in print ( as it has in this case ). As for you not liking large capacity turbo engines in street car racing , it wouldn't matter if I had of fitted a jumbo jet engine , it is bracket racing after all !! only the Berg trophy is for fastest street registed VW.

:jesusnn[ Edited on 6-9-2005 by hypo-vw ]

Sounds like alot of jealousy around the Vw circle.If someone builds something better:puke people just knock you down no matter how hard you work for it.JVLRacing

It's a shame that things like this still happen seeing as our performance VW scene in Australia is so small. We should be able to do what we love and build our hotties and race them without all that crap involved.


VOLLKOMMEN ART
vollkommenart@bigpond.com

Speed and Style

Yeah, it's sad really......Most people have no idea of how much time , effort , knowledge , and money it takes to build a fast car.....It's much easier for them to sit back and pick on the fast and well engineered ones.

Somebody must know who won-they can't not award it. It must be in somebody's trophy cabinet.Who had the next fastest "legal" car??????

Guys, maybe start another post and not clog up Ian's build!
Are you out there Ian?
T54

R U out there Ian?...Love to know how your going with your hotty....This car rocks!
Bring on the GTR/STi scalps!!!

He's still here, he's probly sick of sorting through the non related stuff on his post🤪
He is down stairs with his motor completly stripped checking everything.😁

To everyone involved in the GB trophy discussion in this thread, I request you do not post any more related to this subject in Ian's thread.

I have not edited all the above posts despite requests for such action. HOWEVER, any more posts related to the above matter IN THIS THREAD will be edited/deleted.

Give Ian some consideration and keep this thing on track - this is not the thread for this discussion. I will U2U Ian about his opinion on the direction this has taken.

Shouldnt he be working on your frankenstein motor Wibble ?

how selfish....... not !!!

Hope there were no issues to provoke the tear down ?

All good, with the money invested in that motor, he just wanted to be sure. its now back together with new bearings and all tolerances checked sweet as! Car is going in for some touch up work on the paint job so engine was to come out anyway.
Frankenstein is coming along, got a nice shopping list filled from the states a couple of weeks ago including an EMPI alloy bubble top case clearanced and set up for 94's nice bit of gear that and we found an oroska 78.4 crank in my old stroker now the main problem is choosing between old skool webbers or injection..

78.4 x 94 = ?

Go the injection, but quad throttle bodies on IDF pattern manifolds.... best of both worlds 🙂

Hope you have a serious bottom end in this motor, its going to want to revvvvv..........

Well the latest news is that the engine is out of the car. I was having an oil pressure issue that turned out to be the not so close tollerences of the 32mm bugpack pump. What was I thinking assuming that a factory blue-printed pump would have the right tolerences!

So i've completely rebuilt the engine, this time the duel springs are going in as is the aircooled.net pushrods. I've decided to not run pauter rocker gear, having been shown the light on how to modify the SCAT procomp 1.25:1 rockers to make them correctly fit the competition eliminator heads. Muffler mike in the US (on shoptalkforums) is one major guru.

While the engine's out, the car is being partially stripped and returned to the panel beaters to have some area's fixed that were less than perfect. I've also got two assembly scratches and one stone chip to have fixed. When I get it back it will litterely be of show winning quality. Dead flat body work and glossy as hell!

With the engine out i'm removing the oil cooler and installing two HKS bar and plate coolers under the back seat section. (I'm sure ricers would love to know where their nicely designed parts are going). This is allowing me to install the kaffar brace, that i'm making using a modified nissan S13 strut brace and a couple of turnbuckles. I'm looking forward to saying good bye to wheel hop.

As for Wibble's frankenstein engine, I've had the second set of head conversion plates CNC machined and they fit perfectly. I've got more gear being waterjet cut this week, so with any luck next sunday i'll be assembling the bottom end of his engine. Excluding spacers that go under the cylinders, the engine will be the exact same width as a stock 1600. (thats measuring the width from the top of the rocker cover clip). I'm going to start a new thread and post the build up of the engine as it starts. For starters though here's the shopping list...

Empi bubbletop case with 10mm head stud holes.
94mm stroker pistons.
oroska 78.4mm crank
scat 5.7" rods with VW big ends
scat 4340 12lb flywheel, and scat gland nut.
dry sump oil system

pushrods... who needs them!

The bottom end of the engine will be good for 8000 RPM easily, as are the heads for short use. Redline will be set to 7300, shifting at 7000. About 9:1 CR for the prototype until some custom wiseco pistons are made and the heads are later changed to 2002 model EJ20 heads so the CR can be increased to 11:1.

The prototype should make an easy 160hp. I'd like to see 200hp from the version 2 of the engine. As for when this will happen will depend entirely on Wibbles wallet!

Heith,

Here's a pic of the engine case and where the turboi oil return is located. The fitting on the left side of the case under the number 4 exhaust pushrod tube goes through the case and has a nut on the other side.

The nut has two pieces of bar tig welded to each side of it so that it drops into the square section on the front of the case. This stops the nut from turning on the inside of the crank case. The bulkhead fitting is then screwed to the crankcase with a sealing washer between the case and the fitting. Loctite ultra grey silicon is also used to glue it in place.

The fitting diameter is 3/4th. Some will tell you that 3/8th is enough, so with my previous setup on the cb header I tried that first, then 1/2" and finally 3/4" before it "sort of" worked. Part of that problem was due to the way the CB header interferes with the oil drain, which isn't a factor with my new header.

If in doubt, over engineer it.
nn[ Edited on 24-9-2005 by iswinkels ]

thanks for that Ian, perfect. No I know exactly what your talking about.
Why wouldn't you just drill and tap the case and not worry about the nut ETC.
Heath

The metal in the side of the crankcase is just over 1/8th of an inch thick in that area. Keep in mind it is a sump not a structual section of the case. If you've got an aluminium case you'd definatly weld a 10mm flange on to the side of the case.

Hi Ian ,any dyno results on the motor as yet?:thumbJVLRacing.......Whats happening with Reubs?

Anymore going on Ian? Have you done your pull down yet?
Mine went to the turbo shop today. Will post some pics soon.
Heath

Yeah the car's stripped out again...

Its currently being re-sprayed, paint flaws fixed etc. It turns out the entire car has to be re-sprayed as just about every panel had a problem of some sort. Not saying it looked bad, but when I get it back it will look completely AWESOME! with any luck.

The 2332's removed and I took the opportunity to tear it down to discover why i was having what I call less than ideal oil pressure when it was hot. Turned out that bugpack's blue printed pump's aren't all that blueprinted, so with a little maching its all good and should be easily capable of exploding my new HKS oil coolers. Fortunatly thats not really an issue, as the presure pump doesnt circulate oil thru the coolers. An electric pump does that.

So the other upgrade that are happening is that I've discovered that Nissan S13 suspension parts off EBAY can make an AWESOME kaffar brace. I got a Nissan S13 rear adjustable rear strut brace, which is flat polished billet alloy for joining the two shock towers, and then... I scored for $150... a pair of S13 D1 adjustable camber bars. They normally retail for $450! Nice blue anodised billet alloy. So i'll be fitting that when I get the car back mid next week.

I assure you, there WILL be pictures 😀

Then the 2332 goes back in as it was before, but with an oil cooler change. The kaffar brace would have interfered with the placement of my 12"x12" oil cooler, so i've sold that and scored a pair of 12"x6" alloy HKS oil coolers with 7" fans, also off ebay.

As for dyno results... none yet, but at 5lb it makes more power than the 1641 did at 18lb (seat of the pants assessment) I suspect its an easy 200hp at 5lb, and most likely 300-320 at 14lb (once I crank it up there). I've upgraded the pushrods to the 8000 RPM Aircooled.Net pushrods now too, so the theoritical rev limit for the engine is now about 7500 RPM, but I reckon i'll limit it to 6500.

I am so looking forward to entering the car in some car show and listing off the components on the brag board... Porsche brakes, nissan D1 based traction bar... the ricer guys will be pissed!

There is one other upgrade that is in the works... I've bought a Nissan Gt1752 turbo, rated to 220hp. Because the GT25-320 is too responsive, and I suspect it will run out of puff at about the 6000 RPM mark i've begun planning to upgrade to a pair of GT17's. This will eliminate any top end issue, and move the full boost mark from 2400 to about 2600-2700 rpm as well as increase the power potential to an easy 350-380hp.

I've got to finish wibble's wrx headded engine first. I had some problems with that last weekend but will be buying new head stud material tomorrow and hope to have the heads bolted on soon. Then wibble's got to buy some 5.7" rods for it!

I've updated my website with all the new data for the 2332, plus the new pics of my car wearing CUP2 wheels.

Cool Ian,
Sounds great. Will check out the website.
Do you want to sell your oil 12x12 oil cooler?
Went down and checked out my oval that is down at the shop at the mo. They have got the turbo sitting in place and are doing the collector at the moment and then going to start working back from there same as yours. With the exhaust side of the turbo facing the passenger rear guard, where did you run your exhaust?. I was thinking back towards the front of the car and exiting in front of the back wheel (passenger). What do you think?
We have also decieded to run 2 intercoolers, one on each side mounted to the manifolds and linked with plumbing and central throttle body. Like Ron Lummas' first setup. I had another really cool setup in progress but we could get the deck lid to open right up and I thought that would become really annoying. I will be posting pics. Off to check out your webpage.
T54

Sorry the oil coolers sold already... you'd have the same issue as me though in that it would not have fitted in the car along with a kaffar brace, which you will definatly be needing. A berg traction bar is only good for up to about 180hp. After that if you get traction your in serious danger of perminantly bending your frame horns. Better to strengthen it before that happens.

Keep an eye open on ebay and look for the 7" fans and 12x6" coolers like i got. I'll take a photo soon of the coolers to show you how they look when assembled. They have nice fittings cast into the cooler ends so they readily accept -8an speedflo fittings.

Good to hear the header is coming along. One other thing I did to make exhaust and air intake easier to do was to mount the turbo so that the compressor was higher than the exhaust bu about 10cm (about a 15degree angle). This made getting the exhaust away from the turbo with a 2.5" downpipe a lot easier to do, and also the intake plumbing to the turbo and cold air intake is higher and clears all my oil lines a lot easier. I've got a filter and remote pressure regulator for the oil system mounted off the right rear universal engine mount off the crank case.

Good call on the running of two intecoolers. That will be one each side I guess and then with a compressed air imput to the center? I was considering using two of the smallest PWR intercoolers and feeding up to each side direct from each turbo's when I convert to twin's, but for the moment I can actually preserve all my existing plumbing and just run both turbo's through the single intercooler.

My only concern is that if one cooler gets more coolant flow than the other, resulting in a few degrees air temp differential between each side of the engine. One of the guys in the states mounted his PWR intercooler on the rear parcel shelf and then plumbed the air through holes in the firewall. This made for a lot less cluttered engine bay for him, and probably no noticable effect on lag as the pipes were still short.

Hi Ian,
I had noticed on your header that the turbo was tilted and thought that was why. I wanted them to keep under the lid in the back because mine has to go through our MOT and I am not sure if they would like coolant entering the cab. In saying that I have a old 60 esky that I have converted into a icebox which liquid is going to flow around the outside section and ice is going in the middle section. Bit like a resevoir that gets cool. I want to do it this way in keeping with the period of the car and also being a 54, I really dont want to cut big holes in her. I am also setting it up to flow the fuel lines through the same ice box but not putting the section of tube in for the engineering. I am actually doing the whole thing with only cutting a 60mm hole in the floor on the luggage area. I am interested in the brace, i'll check out the pics when posted but I dont know if you know, I'm going irs. Is it still needed?
Heath

I'd suggest mounting and testing the intercooler, and mount your coolant tank on your parcel shelf. Then just pull it out when you go for your engineering test. You CAN run without a tank, but it just complicates things with bleeding air from the system, and you can't run ice. Or you can run with no coolant when getting your engineering done, and just disconnect your electric pump. Intercooling, functional or otherwise isn't required for an engineer to pass a turbo system. Just wind the boost all the way back so if they test drive it they can't damage it (and don't get too scared!)

I made 165 at the rear wheels with the 1641 turbo without ice and still had 18 degrees ignition with 16-18lb boost(i cant remember what I was running then).

You'll definatly still need a traction brace. IRS or swing makes no difference. If my nissan S13 based brace works out, you can buy cheap S13 suspension parts off ebay to make a strong brace for about $200 easy. I went for some nice billet alloy stuff because it was there, and it was reasonably cheap but its not really necessary. I like overkill!



[ Edited on 21-10-2005 by iswinkels ]